Oh, and little tip: Crippling Challenge is better for holding a boss' attention than Challenging Strikes. Everything it does is stronger, and it has a mechanic that forces them to attack you briefly, so even if you can't hold agro you can at least get the boss to waste some attacks on you.
Challenging Strikes is meant as a multi target taunt. The only reason you'd pick it up as a single target taunt is it's two points less and sometimes you don't really have a power to conveniently slap it on to.
...I just recently realized something really disturbing. We're all eating Sodapop3's "humble pie."
Are we talking pre level 40 soloqueueing here? We aren't even remotely talking about the same thing if you're building them tanky either.
Because what I'm talking about, you're lucky to get a support that even stands close enough to give you an aura, Tanks with Crippling Challenge that can't pull agro off you outside of the forced agro part of the taunt, and DPS that do about a fifth of what you're doing.
I ran some basic numbers a while back for a few, and most Smash bosses have enough damage in their basic attacks alone to kill you in the time it takes an average smash PUG to put them down if you're running a low defense, low HP character. This isn't counting the damage you take from blocking special attacks and such either, or bosses like Valerian Scarlet that will just rip you straight in half, blocking or not.
It should be noted this is the experience a lot of ATs have when leveling, as well as squishy Freeforms. Solid healing is hard to come by until you're at or near 40 and some of the good defense boosting tricks require you to loop skills in the trees back into each other.
PS: Ignore dishonestresearcher. This discussion is better than anything he could ever hope to muster up.
It's a mentalist build so it had ways to heal itself through things like critting on attacks that could be rapid fire spammed. I don't have that on it anymore but, it's got a high enough dodge rate that BCR is enough to keep me pretty close to full health now unless I stop paying attention to what I'm doing and just keep tapping the attack button.
Mostly all I'm gonna say to this in particular is be careful what you wish for. As someone said in another thread, Cryptic is like a Djini, even if you phrase your wishes very carefully, you're still likely to get something that is very, very much not what you want.
I think this is one thing that is on some people's minds here. We've seen this kind of thing time and time again, some of us leaving because of it.
"I tried to look at that page but saw only inane comments."
I think this is one thing that is on some people's minds here. We've seen this kind of thing time and time again, some of us leaving because of it.
I can understand people being wary but, that is why we need to have open discussions with each other and should be encouraging other players to take part in those discussions even if they just say "I'm for ___" or "What I don't want is ___"
It's a mentalist build so it had ways to heal itself through things like critting on attacks that could be rapid fire spammed. I don't have that on it anymore but, it's got a high enough dodge rate that BCR is enough to keep me pretty close to full health now unless I stop paying attention to what I'm doing and just keep tapping the attack button.
See, this is what I mean, this is a completely different ballpark from what I just got done doing. I know what you're talking about, Siphoning Strikes, and that freaking rocks for leveling a DPS because unlike most other heals it doesn't scale on PRE. Sure you lower your damage a fair bit, but since it heals back what it crits you just stack the heck out of what you already want a lot of and get healing on the attack that builds your bigger, harder hitting attack.
My guy, is a dark vigilante. A bit Malta Gunslinger, a bit Rorschach. He's got Super Int, so maybe a bit Ozzy Ozymandias too, wouldn't be surprising considering those were my favorite two characters from Watchmen. The sets I used to realize this concept lacked any comparable option in the area of healing, the only thing close is a relatively weak heal that can be advantaged onto Holdout Shot.
To be honest, I don't even want BCR on him, but the reality of the game is either I take that or a choice of shelving him due to inviability.
So if you want hard, you might want to run a build like that, with a prereq of no heals. Basically, a CoX Blaster. Ideal or not, at the moment it's a quick fix. You might be able to convince your supergroup or friends to run a team of gimped as hell heroes against the hardest content the game currently has to offer. If they're hardcore enough, they'll do it.
I can understand people being wary but, that is why we need to have open discussions with each other and should be encouraging other players to take part in those discussions even if they just say "I'm for ___" or "What I don't want is ___"
Like I said earlier, I'm seriously not against additional difficulty slider settings as a concept, and stuff like it. If the boards weren't archived the way they were, you could go find my posts from various points in time where here and there I laid out bits and pieces of a way they could do it without pissing off anyone, suggested even raising the modes we have now by a good portion, adding new steps to it, special mechanics to replace the more annoying and superficial traits the current Elite has, outlined specially what was a good and bad idea in terms of loot, etc...
Just a few off the top of my head.
-Some enemies get travel powers based on their theme. Similar to what made Malta Gunslingers and different types of Tsoo difficult at times. I'm not just talking about the teleports, but the fact the melee guys could siphon speed to massively boost their own. I. E. give some of the the Red Banner guys acrobatics on higher difficulty levels.
-Elite loses crits and dodges, but now all the stats function as a debuff on the player instead. Gains a net boost to all levels all the way up the ladder, including the new levels, to compensate for this.
-Loot isn't better, but it drops more often. Not massively so, but enough that it's worth considering. Like I mentioned earlier, you want to keep this gap narrow so even casual players and people who aren't great at games are on whatever progression trail you make. These types of players already gain rewards slower because it takes them longer to do everything than someone more dedicated.
-Mobs work together and act smarter at higher levels of difficulty. Note I said work together, this doesn't mean trinity, though healing can be incorporated. This is a pipe dream, but I mean stuff like you see in comics, I. E. Viper Soldiers taking cover behind objects and only revealing themselves to return fire, or crap like the Draysha Enforcers tossing melee enemies onto you, doing some decent damage if they manage to knock you down, and getting them up in your face to attack you.
-More mobs with shields, blocks and such, at higher levels of difficulty. You don't want to make this too smart, as anyone who's ever played a fighting game with frame reading AI knows, but some more and smarter instances of this with built in counters would be an acceptable alternative to simply jacking up HP.
There are great ideas out there that are more dynamic, and don't go causing problems and pissing people off. It's just...
To put it bluntly, I spent a good part of a year waiting to see what the special monster that was supposed to be added to TT Elite would be like. Everyone forgot about it, even me after a while, and I wonder if it would have been any good anyway. That's not even the least thing we've been let down on, just one of the more interesting concepts they had in terms of the difficulty slider: Lairs getting special boss fights at higher levels of difficulty. It's like a page out of the golden age of console RPGs, that secret last dungeon with that special completely unrequired boss in it.
I'm just being realistic here, sadly...
...I just recently realized something really disturbing. We're all eating Sodapop3's "humble pie."
I can understand people being wary but, that is why we need to have open discussions with each other and should be encouraging other players to take part in those discussions even if they just say "I'm for ___" or "What I don't want is ___"
I'm for additional difficulty layers that aren't content-blocking -and- that don't award higher quality rewards for engaging in said additional difficulty layers. A greater quantity of rewards is highly preferred, a higher quality of rewards is not.
I'm for balancing the game around silver archetypes. I'm against balancing the game around gold freeforms. You don't balance against outliers, you balance against the minimum entry barrier with additional and optional difficulty layers available for those who surpass the minimum.
I'm against level-restrictions on the alerts. I'm for rescaling the alerts to level-40 values, instituting a lockout timer for insufficient participation and instituting a lockout timer for premature exit. I'm for restricting the alert dailies which award questionite ore to level 15 or higher characters; note "alert daily" not "alert queue".
I'm for the idea of auto-replacing 'aclaim' with 'questionite ore'. I'm against any attempt or desire to change PvE-affecting elements for PvP-related reasons. (I'm jokingly for removing PvP from the game. Re-read the bolded part of that before you start screaming, please. :biggrin: )
I'm for the introduction of rampage alerts starring any/every cosmic-class character we have in the game. A Grond Rampage would be neat. The giant t-rex would be good too.
I'm for the idea of rampage alerts awarding refined questionite instead of questionite ore. I'm for the idea of the carrier alert awarding drifter salvage. I realize neither of these are ever, ever going to happen.
I'm for ... many things.
I'm against ...many things.
And I'm rather certain that if I got everything I wanted, that it'd kill the game more surely than Cryptic's current neglect of the property will. Such is the way of things, ya know?
__________
There is no such thing as a free lunch. If you aren't paying for it, you aren't the customer; you are the product being sold.
Dollar, dollar, bill, yo. Cash rules everything around you and me.
I'm for additional difficulty layers that aren't content-blocking -and- that don't award higher quality rewards for engaging in said additional difficulty layers. A greater quantity of rewards is highly preferred, a higher quality of rewards is not.
That is exactly the goal of the topic
Furthering the topic, enemies dont use enough higher tier powers, some arent barely even used at all! Some examples :
Command Animals - Viper could train wolves as attack pets.
(insert several summon powers here)
Telekinetic Maelstrom
Crushing Wave
Dragons Claw
Stealth Sigils
Ice Wall
Eye of The Storm
Psionic healing
(insert any Resurrection power here)
(insert shield power here)
Devour Essence
Dragons Wrath (Jack fool is a good example of why its a good thing to add challenging powers)
Sword Cyclone/Butchers blades
Shoulder Launcher
Multiple Power Armor powers at once.
And i could go on and on, enemies barely use the archive of powers available.
I know this would probably get booed at by other players but, I miss self rezzing enemies. I liked having to make sure everything stayed dead or risking getting jumped from behind while already fighting something else.
I know this would probably get booed at by other players but, I miss self rezzing enemies. I liked having to make sure everything stayed dead or risking getting jumped from behind while already fighting something else.
Hmm, Self Rezzing mystics yes I think, I do miss having to finish off zombehz twice
I did post some place else that mob behaviour needs to be updated. I do strongly believe that with the eventual update of Telepathy. PSI need to be updated big time. Besides the annoying TK KB and Rock Throw KB they are relatively weak compared to the power their bosses can put out if allowed.
I know this would probably get booed at by other players but, I miss self rezzing enemies. I liked having to make sure everything stayed dead or risking getting jumped from behind while already fighting something else.
No boo's here, i honestly dont understand who, or why it was complained about in the first place.
I'm against level-restrictions on the alerts. I'm for rescaling the alerts to level-40 values, instituting a lockout timer for insufficient participation and instituting a lockout timer for premature exit. I'm for restricting the alert dailies which award questionite ore to level 15 or higher characters; note "alert daily" not "alert queue".
This is such a good idea that it deserves its own thread, completely separate from this one and from any alert-restriction threads that already exist.
Mostly all I'm gonna say to this in particular is be careful what you wish for. As someone said in another thread, Cryptic is like a Djini, even if you phrase your wishes very carefully, you're still likely to get something that is very, very much not what you want.
While I've been down that road more times than I can count, I'm not going to stop asking. If I did stop, I'd be giving up on the game. I'd also be giving the company a free pass to not do anything. However unlikely it is that Cryptic will do something with regard to player requests, they certainly won't if no one asks.
_________________________________________________
I been a long time leaving but I'm going to be a long time gone.
Willie Nelson
T.U.F.K.A.S. (the user formerly known as Scarlyng)
Wrong on the CO forums since November, 2008
So if you want hard, you might want to run a build like that, with a prereq of no heals. Basically, a CoX Blaster. Ideal or not, at the moment it's a quick fix. You might be able to convince your supergroup or friends to run a team of gimped as hell heroes against the hardest content the game currently has to offer. If they're hardcore enough, they'll do it.
I already played as an archetype though. 9 of them in fact. It didn't make the game more interesting, because as it turns out having fewer options doesn't make the game more interesting. All it ends up being is "gee, i wonder if my dps will kill them before they kill me" (in other words... you're basically an npc now), along with a few opportunities to use line-of-sight or kiting... strategies which I remember from over a decade ago, and they haven't grown more interesting with time.
fyi, others have made this suggestion before. It's been made. Does anyone have any other suggestions to make the gameplay more interesting? Gimping yourself and thereby ignoring the full potential of the freeform system and "be the hero you want to be" has already been suggested.
NEWS: So I gave in and I tried your suggestion btw. I made a glass-cannon dps character, only took single target attacks, no healing, and am currently leveling them; not using the nemesis gear, just grabbing whatever I find. It takes about half a second to kill anything ( sometimes it takes a full second ). In a way, this is actually even less fun... at least with a survival-type character the fights lasted a few moments... now it's just like "target, dead, target, dead, target, dead, next group". am i doin it wrong?
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
I'm for additional difficulty layers that aren't content-blocking -and- that don't award higher quality rewards for engaging in said additional difficulty layers. A greater quantity of rewards is highly preferred, a higher quality of rewards is not.
I'm for balancing the game around silver archetypes. I'm against balancing the game around gold freeforms. You don't balance against outliers, you balance against the minimum entry barrier with additional and optional difficulty layers available for those who surpass the minimum.
I'm against level-restrictions on the alerts. I'm for rescaling the alerts to level-40 values, instituting a lockout timer for insufficient participation and instituting a lockout timer for premature exit. I'm for restricting the alert dailies which award questionite ore to level 15 or higher characters; note "alert daily" not "alert queue".
I'm for the idea of auto-replacing 'aclaim' with 'questionite ore'. I'm against any attempt or desire to change PvE-affecting elements for PvP-related reasons. (I'm jokingly for removing PvP from the game. Re-read the bolded part of that before you start screaming, please. :biggrin: )
I'm for the introduction of rampage alerts starring any/every cosmic-class character we have in the game. A Grond Rampage would be neat. The giant t-rex would be good too.
I'm for the idea of rampage alerts awarding refined questionite instead of questionite ore. I'm for the idea of the carrier alert awarding drifter salvage. I realize neither of these are ever, ever going to happen.
I'm for ... many things.
I'm against ...many things.
And I'm rather certain that if I got everything I wanted, that it'd kill the game more surely than Cryptic's current neglect of the property will. Such is the way of things, ya know?
I am for everything you mention here...except even joking about the removal of PvP (not because a joke of that sort is not perfectly fine, but because entirely too many anti PvP players....and perhaps even Cryptic...might latch onto it.
Edit: I die all the time playing on normal difficulty. For the most part, I'm following a "Mountain" build, but with freeform, I get to pick up some melee attacks from other powersets and stat boosts. Don't remember what they're called right of the top of my head, but the "jack of all trades" thing, where ten stats get +2, etc.
Edit: I die all the time playing on normal difficulty. For the most part, I'm following a "Mountain" build, but with freeform, I get to pick up some melee attacks from other powersets and stat boosts. Don't remember what they're called right of the top of my head, but the "jack of all trades" thing, where ten stats get +2, etc.
Id heard it was tough and i did want to play it, but after CO though, im kinda scared away by any game that bares a Monthly Subscription model. Most havent gone well.
I sub to CoX...nobody on, got bored (the British servers were empty, and at the time were not linked to USA which would have saved it)
I sub to WoW, good game but couldnt stand the kids behaviours, i want to be a happy gamer not a rager
I sub to Planetside..it dies..dunno why because i was in love with that game!
I sub to Age of Conan...again i loved it! but nobody else was on, i leveled to 80 and couldnt find anyone else in later zones, went bad to to lack of population and lack of content.
I sub to DCUO...eww! Bad combat system! Run away! Arthritis says button-masher game must be avoided!
I sub and buy LIFETIME to CO...it has so far lasted the longest, and im still here with some hope...not much left tho.
After it all, iv concluded that i will never go on a Sub-based game ever again.
That's just me tho! Im sure other peoples experiences have been more positive.
Id heard it was tough and i did want to play it, but after CO though, im kinda scared away by any game that bares a Monthly Subscription model. Most havent gone well.
I sub to CoX...nobody on, got bored (the British servers were empty, and at the time were not linked to USA which would have saved it)
I sub to WoW, good game but couldnt stand the kids behaviours, i want to be a happy gamer not a rager
I sub to Planetside..it dies..dunno why because i was in love with that game!
I sub to Age of Conan...again i loved it! but nobody else was on, i leveled to 80 and couldnt find anyone else in later zones, went bad to to lack of population and lack of content.
I sub to DCUO...eww! Bad combat system! Run away! Arthritis says button-masher game must be avoided!
I sub and buy LIFETIME to CO...it has so far lasted the longest, and im still here with some hope...not much left tho.
After it all, iv concluded that i will never go on a Sub-based game ever again.
That's just me tho! Im sure other peoples experiences have been more positive.
I don't think sub based systems are bad. In fact, I think they're very good. I think F2P with an item shop is fine as well.
It's hybrid and lifetime subscriptions that are bad imo.
With the first, the developer puts themself in a position where they have to try balancing the perks of being a subscriber vs. trying to get nonpaying customers to actually spend some money and it's a very delicate balancing act that I've yet to see someone do well.
Lifetime subscriptions are nothing more than an attempt to grab as much cash from the players as they can early on which results in the developers scrabbling to find additional sources of income down the road. I've yet to do a lifetime subscription to any game simply because I lack confidence in the longevity of a game that offers them.
Edit: I die all the time playing on normal difficulty. For the most part, I'm following a "Mountain" build, but with freeform, I get to pick up some melee attacks from other powersets and stat boosts. Don't remember what they're called right of the top of my head, but the "jack of all trades" thing, where ten stats get +2, etc.
You gaming lightweight . You want hard you play DARK FREAKING SOULS !
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
One of the biggest problems was that CO, having argueably one of the worlds most successful and populated launches, its rediculous they lost so many customers in the first 4 months
They denied it, but the whole "We didnt put all that money into STO" i never bought it, still dont. The launch should have been enough to do far more than what we got. With whats happening with us AND STO now...its pretty obvious its going into Neverwinter.
Rinse and repeat.
You watch;
Neverwinter will launch, and after a few months itll be this again: "Cryptic to launch a new game!"
My Little Champions WinterRim TrekCraft...ahhh i can see it now.
One of the biggest problems was that CO, having argueably one of the worlds most successful and populated launches, its rediculous they lost so many customers in the first 4 months
They denied it, but the whole "We didnt put all that money into STO" i never bought it, still dont. The launch should have been enough to do far more than what we got. With whats happening with us AND STO now...its pretty obvious its going into Neverwinter.
Rinse and repeat.
You watch;
Neverwinter will launch, and after a few months itll be this again: "Cryptic to launch a new game!"
My Little Champions WinterRim TrekCraft...ahhh i can see it now.
Atari originally bought Cryptic because the studio had an an engine and a plan for fast turnout of new games. Atari planned to use this potential profitability to shore up their company. It didn't work out for them long term. PWI bought the company, and is converting those existing games to its model. I've seen nothing that said that long term plans do not still include turning out new games on a regular basis.
_________________________________________________
I been a long time leaving but I'm going to be a long time gone.
Willie Nelson
T.U.F.K.A.S. (the user formerly known as Scarlyng)
Wrong on the CO forums since November, 2008
Theres a lots of free AT that arnt over powered. Make a toon from them and cheer the hell up XD The games as hard or as easy as you want it just one of the many choices this game gives you.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Theres a lots of free AT that arnt over powered. Make a toon from them and cheer the hell up XD The games as hard or as easy as you want it just one of the many choices this game gives you.
But if I have to use free ATs to enjoy this game's actual gameplay, that begs the question of why I'm paying to play.
But if I have to use free ATs to enjoy this game's actual gameplay, that begs the question of why I'm paying to play.
Thats simple because you pay to be OP if you choose to be. You also get any new premium AT for free . You dont have the 250g limit. You dont have to buy some costume packs. You can color your powers. You have access to PTS server ( PTS is rather awesome I know people who ONLY play on PTS) . You have access to more travel powers. You can use pidgin to chat to CO while not in game AND you get a free hideout.
Even without freeform thats worth $15 a month or a LTS.
I run many AT's Behemoth being my fave ^__^
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Thats simple because you pay to be OP if you choose to be.
No, we pay to have options. That those options happen to be OP is of no devise of my own, but of the design of the game. And telling a player that wants to play a toon whose concept is that they have the power to control the weather and create hurricanes (for example) not to pick Hurricane if they want a challenge because the power can be used to steamroll through most of the game's PvE content by dishing out huge amouts of damage to every single mob in a large area around you by keeping a single button pressed all the time as you move is not a solution to the problem, or evidence than the player is the source of the problem, but rather a cop out in addressing the issue.
Thats simple because you pay to be OP if you choose to be. You also get any new premium AT for free . You dont have the 250g limit. You dont have to buy some costume packs. You can color your powers. You have access to PTS server ( PTS is rather awesome I know people who ONLY play on PTS) . You have access to more travel powers. You can use pidgin to chat to CO while not in game AND you get a free hideout.
Even without freeform thats worth $15 a month or a LTS.
I run many AT's Behemoth being my fave ^__^
Imagine if every game maker in the industry was like "Listen... we don't need to design good games that are fun, because players will just find a way to have fun in them no matter what we do! After all, they're not paying to play our product, they're paying to figure out how to play our product in a way that is fun for them."
Lifetime Subscribers bought in with the belief that the game would continue to grow. If I hopped in my Tardis and traveled back and told everyone of them "Oh by the way, what you're doing now? You're going to be doing that years from now, and it's going to be even easier", how many of them might reconsider their purchase? Hell, how many regular subscribers might reconsider their continued subscription?
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
Thats simple because you pay to be OP if you choose to be. You also get any new premium AT for free . You dont have the 250g limit. You dont have to buy some costume packs. You can color your powers. You have access to PTS server ( PTS is rather awesome I know people who ONLY play on PTS) . You have access to more travel powers. You can use pidgin to chat to CO while not in game AND you get a free hideout.
Even without freeform thats worth $15 a month or a LTS.
I run many AT's Behemoth being my fave ^__^
No. To you that's worth $15 a month.
I pay for my subscription because I like playing freeform characters.
The only other thing I get out of it that I have any interest in and can't get on my own in a reasonable amount of time from grinding Q is emanation points and color tinting.
Emanation points and color tinting are not worth $15 a month.
But if I have to use free ATs to enjoy this game's actual gameplay, that begs the question of why I'm paying to play.
I wrote this .
Thats simple because you pay to be OP if you choose to be. You also get any new premium AT for free . You dont have the 250g limit. You dont have to buy some costume packs. You can color your powers. You have access to PTS server ( PTS is rather awesome I know people who ONLY play on PTS) . You have access to more travel powers. You can use pidgin to chat to CO while not in game AND you get a free hideout.
Even without freeform thats worth $15 a month or a LTS.
I run many AT's Behemoth being my fave ^__^
A simple enough question with a simple enough answer I listed what else you get for your sub.
Imagine if every game maker in the industry was like "Listen... we don't need to design good games that are fun, because players will just find a way to have fun in them no matter what we do! After all, they're not paying to play our product, they're paying to figure out how to play our product in a way that is fun for them."
Lifetime Subscribers bought in with the belief that the game would continue to grow. If I hopped in my Tardis and traveled back and told everyone of them "Oh by the way, what you're doing now? You're going to be doing that years from now, and it's going to be even easier", how many of them might reconsider their purchase? Hell, how many regular subscribers might reconsider their continued subscription?
Im a LTS and I dont need to figure out how to have fun I just have fun. But in what way does your post list what else we get for subscriptions or LTS >___> ?
I pay for my subscription because I like playing freeform characters.
The only other thing I get out of it that I have any interest in and can't get on my own in a reasonable amount of time from grinding Q is emanation points and color tinting.
Emanation points and color tinting are not worth $15 a month.
Basically Arimikami said the only thing worth subbing for is freeform a very valid point held by many a player. Though I must point out I did say we get more than color tinting and I didnt say Emanation points. So I can add Emanation points to that list
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Even without freeform thats worth $15 a month or a LTS.
....girrrrl you crazy
Only reason to sub i see any (thanks to the freeform slot of 'screw you subscribers') is for the stipend...which isnt a whole lot.
I wonder how many months subscribed it would take to earn the stipend to purchase a Rank8 > Rank9 Catalyst...first off, a lot...second...thaaats a lot of money...
No
After analyzing it several times its only worth subscribing for 1 month to claim all the content, bonuses with bein a goldy, the 400 stipend once, then turnin it off. Most amount of stuff, for your buck is by doing that.
Smoochan you seemed a bit confused. Arimikami asked.
I wrote this .
Thats simple because you pay to be OP if you choose to be. You also get any new premium AT for free . You dont have the 250g limit. You dont have to buy some costume packs. You can color your powers. You have access to PTS server ( PTS is rather awesome I know people who ONLY play on PTS) . You have access to more travel powers. You can use pidgin to chat to CO while not in game AND you get a free hideout.
Even without freeform thats worth $15 a month or a LTS.
I run many AT's Behemoth being my fave ^__^
A simple enough question with a simple enough answer I listed what else you get for your sub.
And you said this.
Im a LTS and I dont need to figure out how to have fun I just have fun. But in what way does your post list what else we get for subscriptions or LTS >___> ?
I'll clarify for you. We shouldn't have to jump through hoops to indulge in the genre that the game explicitly offers as its core premise; gimping yourself, not playing a freeform.... those are the hoops you have to jump through to get any sort of epic feeling out of a game that on the surface appears to be offering an epic genre.
I'm not sure where you got the idea that I was trying to list what you get for subscriptions or LTS, since I didn't do that ( as you, oddly enough, pointed out) so I won't respond to that.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
Theres a lots of free AT that arnt over powered. Make a toon from them and cheer the hell up XD The games as hard or as easy as you want it just one of the many choices this game gives you.
Imagine if every game maker in the industry was like "Listen... we don't need to design good games that are fun, because players will just find a way to have fun in them no matter what we do! After all, they're not paying to play our product, they're paying to figure out how to play our product in a way that is fun for them."
*snipped*
...is still a relevant point to make.
And none of your points explain how having to limit yourself to the weakest AT's in the game, or go through considerable lengths to use reverse-theorycrafting to work out the crappiest possible builts in order to find a challenge in this game is evidence that problem is in the players, rather than that the perception that challenge in this game is negligible is correct. If we have to go to lengths to make a character that's weak enough to find challenge in this game I see that as evidence that challenge is in fact negligible rather than it being merely a matter of perception.
Lifetime Subscribers bought in with the belief that the game would continue to grow. If I hopped in my Tardis and traveled back and told everyone of them "Oh by the way, what you're doing now? You're going to be doing that years from now, and it's going to be even easier", how many of them might reconsider their purchase? Hell, how many regular subscribers might reconsider their continued subscription?
Considering I actually quit the game for a while before they dropped the patch that renerfed the mobs, buffed a bunch of passives, and in general undid the damage the launch day patch did. Yes. I would. I'd consider staying subbed. If you told me that in addition to the Gadroon nerfs, they were nerfing all the other bull****, Cryptic would have gotten more money out of me, at least in the immediate present.
In fact, the whole game would probably be better off if you did this, because you'd **** with the time stream and potentially convince people who didn't like feeling like Toilet Paper Man to maybe tough it out a little longer. Man, if I had a buck for every time I've heard someone complain about the launch day bull**** when I'm talking about Champions Online...
Also, agreeing with Nepht on this particular point. To be blunt, if you pay for freeform for the options, one of those options, which is your choice to take or not take, is to build overpowered characters. If you don't want to take the opposite route and build underpowered, well I have no empathy for you. I already sacrifice theme and/or concept for the opposite, and remember what it was like when that was even worse, so suck it up.
...I just recently realized something really disturbing. We're all eating Sodapop3's "humble pie."
Also, agreeing with Nepht on this particular point. To be blunt, if you pay for freeform for the options, one of those options, which is your choice to take or not take, is to build overpowered characters. If you don't want to take the opposite route and build underpowered, well I have no empathy for you. I already sacrifice theme and/or concept for the opposite, and remember what it was like when that was even worse, so suck it up.
You have no empathy for people who aren't getting what they paid for. I'd like to be surprised... but I've read you before.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
Also, agreeing with Nepht on this particular point. To be blunt, if you pay for freeform for the options, one of those options, which is your choice to take or not take, is to build overpowered characters. If you don't want to take the opposite route and build underpowered, well I have no empathy for you. I already sacrifice theme and/or concept for the opposite, and remember what it was like when that was even worse, so suck it up.
See my last two posts, above, for counter-arguments to these oft repeated points that the people making them never seem to address.
You have no empathy for people who aren't getting what they paid for. I'd like to be surprised... but I've read you before.
I've been ignoring you for a while now, because I've read you before and know you're incapable of understanding anything, but to be blunt the attitude the elitists had when the tables were turned was far nastier than anything I said there. The reason I have no empathy, is because I know for a fact that if they amped up the difficulty by 500% tomorrow, when the sea of much expected complaints came rolling in, Snake here would be making a thread named something similar to "QQ CRY SOME MORE."
I'm not stupid. I'm cynical, but I'm not stupid.
...I just recently realized something really disturbing. We're all eating Sodapop3's "humble pie."
See my last two posts, above, for counter-arguments to these oft repeated points that the people making them never seem to address.
My post addresses your last post. Read it again. The other party in this conversation is already doing the reverse of what's being suggested, and has been for a long time. It doesn't suit your argument, that this is the case, but it's still the case.
Also, past that, I'm ignoring some things because in the grand scheme of things they don't actually prove anything, or aren't relevant to the conversation and I'm not going off in another weird direction again.
...I just recently realized something really disturbing. We're all eating Sodapop3's "humble pie."
My post addresses your last post. Read it again. The other party in this conversation is already doing the reverse of what's being suggested, and has been for a long time. It doesn't suit your argument, that this is the case, but it's still the case.
No, it doesn't. You just make blanket accusations that anyone failing to find a challenge in this game's content is making so called "overpowered" characters without explaining exactly how you arrived at that conclusion or what constitudes an "overpowered" character, while ignoring the fact that just about any power in this game can be considered "overpowered", that some of those so called "overpowered" abilities might be required for certain concepts, or that it is far easier to create an effective toon capable of rolling through most regular content than it is to create a gimp one (unless you go out of your way to select powers that have no bearing with eachother, such as taking Concentration on a melee toon or things like that).
Fact is, when i pay for freeform, its because i want to become more powerful. Then i learn that the game has been built around and balanced for AT's...so i start building a freeform and come to the realisation that everything has become not just easy...but a joke.
So i go back to AT's and feel utterly bored..and having learned more of the CO battle system, am able to make even AT's solo elite content. I am left with no choice, and nothing to lose asking for a change in difficulty for the higher end of the difficulty options.
Of course even with AT's now...thanks to a lot of people who didnt bother to learn the game, wanted things to be even easier.
Stuff i hear like "The tutorial is too hard" (and iv seen some of them play) arent using block, arent listening to the tutorial, and in many cases are too young to understand the complexity of a RPG to care to do anything but mash a button and not understand gear and tactics.
This leaves me, someone who has paid for a freeform character, feeling like that by paying and being a contribution to the Cryptic/Co team effort..i have ruined my game, because its built for the kiddies or whiners who just leave the game shortly after joining.
Well when i switch to elite...i should be switching to "Grown up mode" because a lot of people...MOSTLY those who know how to play this game AND ARE THE MAJORITY STILL HERE and of age, seem to only stick around for the PvP because the only challenge there is, is fighting each other.
The regular names you commonly see in this game are stuck in Ren-Cen..waiting for a new PvP mode or something to do because the content is so easy it is not even considered!
I however am a strictly PVE type person....finding it super hard not to leave. I use the word Hope here again.
Ultimately my point boils down to this...people are powerful...why does the content in the higher difficulties, still represent the ability of AT's and the kids who quit the game on day 1, when people who have Paid to become more than a small-grade hero and have been around since launch with excellent rpg skills..still are playing at the difficulty set for the people who arent even sticking around?
Long term, good players deserve their own difficulty that does not feel so insulting to their ability to play this game.
I get it, some people are shockingly bad at this game, but normal mode however caters to them very well.
Those who are good at the game, QUIT...because the hardest level of difficulty, insults their capability, and to a team of good players, well its just a spit in the face.
"You shouldnt have subscribed bro"... < is that really the message you should put out Cryptic? ..no
Says you. Which you say, because it doesn't suit you that it does.
If you think picking up Hurricane is enough to constitute an overpowered character, then you really have no place saying what anyone's post addresses.
To put it in perspective, building a Tank that doesn't do decent damage, makes you useless to a team. Building a tank that does decent damage and had decent defense, but can't heal himself, makes you team dependent. Building a squishy with really high damage and no defense makes you want to rip your hair out. I think people are too damn used to building solid characters to remember what it's like to take a few of those "options" they insist on using out of the equation.
And ultimately, my overarching point here is that we're already doing what you're being told to do, on the other end of the scale. I've already said this, if you want to talk about good points being ignored. Fact is, if I don't want to glow like a Cristmass Tree, tough. If chi powah and holy healing of self isn't my thing, too bad. Fact is the game dictates I need a dependable way of healing myself, unless I want to drag someone around all the damn time and have them buttmedic me, which is not something I think forcing players to do is a good idea.
As it stands, this is the option, you have, right now. As it stands, that's the option, I have, right now. Maybe one day we can have an awesome over the top difficulty slider, and all the powers in the game can be super balanced, and have custom animations and effects for every theme under the rainbow, and theme builds that are well built can even do the hardest game mode if the player behind them is good. And maybe I'll win the damn lottery and unicorns will fly over my head and crap cadbury eggs. But what's being said here, is if you find the game too easy, there IS an option, whether you accept it or not is up to you.
...I just recently realized something really disturbing. We're all eating Sodapop3's "humble pie."
I'll clarify for you. We shouldn't have to jump through hoops to indulge in the genre that the game explicitly offers as its core premise; gimping yourself, not playing a freeform.... those are the hoops you have to jump through to get any sort of epic feeling out of a game that on the surface appears to be offering an epic genre.
I'm not sure where you got the idea that I was trying to list what you get for subscriptions or LTS, since I didn't do that ( as you, oddly enough, pointed out) so I won't respond to that.
Well saying you responded to a list of what do we get other than freeform in gold status. I was expecting something added . Which you didnt . Instead you started on about jumping through hoops to have fun. Now I am starting to think you meant to reply to the below post of mine.
Theres a lots of free AT that arnt over powered. Make a toon from them and cheer the hell up XD The games as hard or as easy as you want it just one of the many choices this game gives you.
Thats simple because you pay to be OP if you choose to be. You also get any new premium AT for free . You dont have the 250g limit. You dont have to buy some costume packs. You can color your powers. You have access to PTS server ( PTS is rather awesome I know people who ONLY play on PTS) . You have access to more travel powers. You can use pidgin to chat to CO while not in game AND you get a free hideout.
Even without freeform thats worth $15 a month or a LTS.
I run many AT's Behemoth being my fave ^__^
^^ this post is a list of other stuff gold status gives you. This is the one you responded to.
I am finding your concepts of hoops and lists .....
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Says you. Which you say, because it doesn't suit you that it does.
No, all you did was reassert your opinion that the lack of challenge is exclusively the result of people making "overpowered" characters, which is a pretty vague and subjective term. Intentionally gimping yourself in order to artificially make the game challenging does not solve the issue of the lack of challenge on most content in this game. If anything it supports the idea that there is a lack of challenge, because otherwise you wouldn't have to GIMP yourself in order to get it.
Intentionally gimping yourself in order to artificially make the game challenging does not solve the issue of the lack of challenge on most content in this game. If anything it supports the idea that there is a lack of challenge, because otherwise you wouldn't have to GIMP yourself in order to get it.
Pretty much this, if YOU are purposely making a weak build in order to find a challenge, YOU are telling us that its too easy.
I'd really like to know WHICH two powers one needs to pick to be able to breeze through content. As I've said, I die regularly. Not enough to be called "Tissue Paper Man", but enough to be "DAMMIT NOT AGAIN".
Also, I'm not deliberately gimping myself. I'm capable of reading power descriptions and basing my choices on what I perceive as good picks that follow a theme.
I seriously don't get where you people are coming off that the game isn't challenging enough.
Also, as I said, you want hard? Go play The Secret World for a bit. You'll come screaming back here for mommy.
I'd really like to know WHICH two powers one needs to pick to be able to breeze through content. As I've said, I die regularly. Not enough to be called "Tissue Paper Man", but enough to be "DAMMIT NOT AGAIN".
Also, I'm not deliberately gimping myself. I'm capable of reading power descriptions and basing my choices on what I perceive as good picks that follow a theme.
I seriously don't get where you people are coming off that the game isn't challenging enough.
Also, as I said, you want hard? Go play The Secret World for a bit. You'll come screaming back here for mommy.
It's not the powers, it's the layered defenses, heals and buffs. CO offers multiple options for defense and offense. Those who stack these options over-perform. If you want build advice, you might visit the Builds Sub-Forum in Combat and Powers, if you haven't already. Heck, these days people are posting for build advice in the Combat and Powers forum itself.
_________________________________________________
I been a long time leaving but I'm going to be a long time gone.
Willie Nelson
T.U.F.K.A.S. (the user formerly known as Scarlyng)
Wrong on the CO forums since November, 2008
Also, it just occurred to me that I could form a line of game developers that would flat out disagree with your assertion that self gimping isn't an acceptable way to solve the perceived lack of challenge. Because, to put it bluntly, that's exactly what the hard mode in many games does.
Devil May Cry has a mode that reduces you to one HP, so everything kills you in one hit. There's two versions of this, and the bad one also gives enemies access to more power.
Cave Story has something similar, it strips all the health upgrades from the game, but I think one or two.
The Megaman Zero and ZX games' "hard" mode not only made enemies faster and stronger, but stripped you of subtanks and in the Zero games some of your weapon upgrades.
From what I remember, some of the blessings, or rather, "blessings," you could get from idols in Bastion also functioned in this manner, although most of them did increase the power of enemies. Some of the weapons in that game were also significantly better or worse than other options.
This is a choice. The player never has to turn any of this crap on, and "gimp" themselves.
...I just recently realized something really disturbing. We're all eating Sodapop3's "humble pie."
It's not the powers, it's the layered defenses, heals and buffs. CO offers multiple options for defense and offense. Those who stack these options over-perform. If you want build advice, you might visit the Builds Sub-Forum in Combat and Powers, if you haven't already. Heck, these days people are posting for build advice in the Combat and Powers forum itself.
No, I was merely jesting when I was asking which two powers to make you uber I need to pick.
As I said, I'm perfectly capable of reading descriptions and picking what I perceive to be good powers.
But to address the original poster's subject.....why must everyone suffer when a player(or even a hundred players...heck any number of players) minmax their builds so that the game's difficulty slider becomes a joke?
The game is perfectly hard enough for me, personally...and I can bet there's more than a few players that don't even READ the forums that would agree. My answer to that is....no. Leave the slider just the way it is. You want difficult? Grab a team of five, set at the highest difficulty, then go into the instance and boot the team. There's a map set at the highest difficulty for a team of five. Go to town. Or solo the alerts. Get a team of noobs and let them sit back and bask in awe of your leetness as you single handedly demolish content designed for a team.
Still too easy? Too bad. Don't make it impossible for the rest of us.
Also, it just occurred to me that I could form a line of game developers that would flat out disagree with your assertion that self gimping isn't an acceptable way to solve the perceived lack of challenge. Because, to put it bluntly, that's exactly what the hard mode in many games does.
I colored this part because I think it's pretty relevant.
So, you're saying that if we want more of a challenge to use the difficulty slider?
What about those of us that have been and are saying that the maximum difficulty needs to be made tougher since right now it's not much of a challenge?
But to address the original poster's subject.....why must everyone suffer when a player(or even a hundred players...heck any number of players) minmax their builds so that the game's difficulty slider becomes a joke?
The game is perfectly hard enough for me, personally...and I can bet there's more than a few players that don't even READ the forums that would agree. My answer to that is....no. Leave the slider just the way it is. You want difficult? Grab a team of five, set at the highest difficulty, then go into the instance and boot the team. There's a map set at the highest difficulty for a team of five. Go to town. Or solo the alerts. Get a team of noobs and let them sit back and bask in awe of your leetness as you single handedly demolish content designed for a team.
Still too easy? Too bad. Don't make it impossible for the rest of us.
Mercy, you know me. You've known me for a couple years now. I'd like to think you know that I like it when everybody is able to enjoy themselves.
I'm not saying that the entire game needs to be made impossibly difficult for everyone.
I am saying that the maximum difficulty level does need to be looked at and rebalanced.
Also, that last comment can be easily reversed.
Max dif too hard? Too bad. That's what lower difficulty settings are for.
Comments
Challenging Strikes is meant as a multi target taunt. The only reason you'd pick it up as a single target taunt is it's two points less and sometimes you don't really have a power to conveniently slap it on to.
...I just recently realized something really disturbing. We're all eating Sodapop3's "humble pie."
It's a mentalist build so it had ways to heal itself through things like critting on attacks that could be rapid fire spammed. I don't have that on it anymore but, it's got a high enough dodge rate that BCR is enough to keep me pretty close to full health now unless I stop paying attention to what I'm doing and just keep tapping the attack button.
I think this is one thing that is on some people's minds here. We've seen this kind of thing time and time again, some of us leaving because of it.
I can understand people being wary but, that is why we need to have open discussions with each other and should be encouraging other players to take part in those discussions even if they just say "I'm for ___" or "What I don't want is ___"
See, this is what I mean, this is a completely different ballpark from what I just got done doing. I know what you're talking about, Siphoning Strikes, and that freaking rocks for leveling a DPS because unlike most other heals it doesn't scale on PRE. Sure you lower your damage a fair bit, but since it heals back what it crits you just stack the heck out of what you already want a lot of and get healing on the attack that builds your bigger, harder hitting attack.
My guy, is a dark vigilante. A bit Malta Gunslinger, a bit Rorschach. He's got Super Int, so maybe a bit Ozzy Ozymandias too, wouldn't be surprising considering those were my favorite two characters from Watchmen. The sets I used to realize this concept lacked any comparable option in the area of healing, the only thing close is a relatively weak heal that can be advantaged onto Holdout Shot.
To be honest, I don't even want BCR on him, but the reality of the game is either I take that or a choice of shelving him due to inviability.
So if you want hard, you might want to run a build like that, with a prereq of no heals. Basically, a CoX Blaster. Ideal or not, at the moment it's a quick fix. You might be able to convince your supergroup or friends to run a team of gimped as hell heroes against the hardest content the game currently has to offer. If they're hardcore enough, they'll do it.
Like I said earlier, I'm seriously not against additional difficulty slider settings as a concept, and stuff like it. If the boards weren't archived the way they were, you could go find my posts from various points in time where here and there I laid out bits and pieces of a way they could do it without pissing off anyone, suggested even raising the modes we have now by a good portion, adding new steps to it, special mechanics to replace the more annoying and superficial traits the current Elite has, outlined specially what was a good and bad idea in terms of loot, etc...
Just a few off the top of my head.
There are great ideas out there that are more dynamic, and don't go causing problems and pissing people off. It's just...
To put it bluntly, I spent a good part of a year waiting to see what the special monster that was supposed to be added to TT Elite would be like. Everyone forgot about it, even me after a while, and I wonder if it would have been any good anyway. That's not even the least thing we've been let down on, just one of the more interesting concepts they had in terms of the difficulty slider: Lairs getting special boss fights at higher levels of difficulty. It's like a page out of the golden age of console RPGs, that secret last dungeon with that special completely unrequired boss in it.
I'm just being realistic here, sadly...
...I just recently realized something really disturbing. We're all eating Sodapop3's "humble pie."
I'm for additional difficulty layers that aren't content-blocking -and- that don't award higher quality rewards for engaging in said additional difficulty layers. A greater quantity of rewards is highly preferred, a higher quality of rewards is not.
I'm for balancing the game around silver archetypes. I'm against balancing the game around gold freeforms. You don't balance against outliers, you balance against the minimum entry barrier with additional and optional difficulty layers available for those who surpass the minimum.
I'm against level-restrictions on the alerts. I'm for rescaling the alerts to level-40 values, instituting a lockout timer for insufficient participation and instituting a lockout timer for premature exit. I'm for restricting the alert dailies which award questionite ore to level 15 or higher characters; note "alert daily" not "alert queue".
I'm for the idea of auto-replacing 'aclaim' with 'questionite ore'. I'm against any attempt or desire to change PvE-affecting elements for PvP-related reasons. (I'm jokingly for removing PvP from the game. Re-read the bolded part of that before you start screaming, please. :biggrin: )
I'm for the introduction of rampage alerts starring any/every cosmic-class character we have in the game. A Grond Rampage would be neat. The giant t-rex would be good too.
I'm for the idea of rampage alerts awarding refined questionite instead of questionite ore. I'm for the idea of the carrier alert awarding drifter salvage. I realize neither of these are ever, ever going to happen.
I'm for ... many things.
I'm against ...many things.
And I'm rather certain that if I got everything I wanted, that it'd kill the game more surely than Cryptic's current neglect of the property will. Such is the way of things, ya know?
There is no such thing as a free lunch. If you aren't paying for it, you aren't the customer; you are the product being sold.
Dollar, dollar, bill, yo. Cash rules everything around you and me.
That is exactly the goal of the topic
Furthering the topic, enemies dont use enough higher tier powers, some arent barely even used at all! Some examples :
Command Animals - Viper could train wolves as attack pets.
(insert several summon powers here)
Telekinetic Maelstrom
Crushing Wave
Dragons Claw
Stealth Sigils
Ice Wall
Eye of The Storm
Psionic healing
(insert any Resurrection power here)
(insert shield power here)
Devour Essence
Dragons Wrath (Jack fool is a good example of why its a good thing to add challenging powers)
Sword Cyclone/Butchers blades
Shoulder Launcher
Multiple Power Armor powers at once.
And i could go on and on, enemies barely use the archive of powers available.
Hmm, Self Rezzing mystics yes I think, I do miss having to finish off zombehz twice
I did post some place else that mob behaviour needs to be updated. I do strongly believe that with the eventual update of Telepathy. PSI need to be updated big time. Besides the annoying TK KB and Rock Throw KB they are relatively weak compared to the power their bosses can put out if allowed.
*Goes off to find full post*
My Characters on PRIMUS
[#]WeNeedHeroicFashion - <Aura Suggestions> - <CO Wiki (WIP)> - <Crowd Control Discussion> - <Telepathy in Champions Online> - How to review The Force Power Set - Join the Champions Online: On Alert Discord!
I am @RavenForce in game
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No boo's here, i honestly dont understand who, or why it was complained about in the first place.
This is such a good idea that it deserves its own thread, completely separate from this one and from any alert-restriction threads that already exist.
All of those suggestions have been made before. By myself and by others.
There is no such thing as a free lunch. If you aren't paying for it, you aren't the customer; you are the product being sold.
Dollar, dollar, bill, yo. Cash rules everything around you and me.
While I've been down that road more times than I can count, I'm not going to stop asking. If I did stop, I'd be giving up on the game. I'd also be giving the company a free pass to not do anything. However unlikely it is that Cryptic will do something with regard to player requests, they certainly won't if no one asks.
I been a long time leaving but I'm going to be a long time gone.
Willie Nelson
T.U.F.K.A.S. (the user formerly known as Scarlyng)
Wrong on the CO forums since November, 2008
I already played as an archetype though. 9 of them in fact. It didn't make the game more interesting, because as it turns out having fewer options doesn't make the game more interesting. All it ends up being is "gee, i wonder if my dps will kill them before they kill me" (in other words... you're basically an npc now), along with a few opportunities to use line-of-sight or kiting... strategies which I remember from over a decade ago, and they haven't grown more interesting with time.
fyi, others have made this suggestion before. It's been made. Does anyone have any other suggestions to make the gameplay more interesting? Gimping yourself and thereby ignoring the full potential of the freeform system and "be the hero you want to be" has already been suggested.
NEWS: So I gave in and I tried your suggestion btw. I made a glass-cannon dps character, only took single target attacks, no healing, and am currently leveling them; not using the nemesis gear, just grabbing whatever I find. It takes about half a second to kill anything ( sometimes it takes a full second ). In a way, this is actually even less fun... at least with a survival-type character the fights lasted a few moments... now it's just like "target, dead, target, dead, target, dead, next group". am i doin it wrong?
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
I am for everything you mention here...except even joking about the removal of PvP (not because a joke of that sort is not perfectly fine, but because entirely too many anti PvP players....and perhaps even Cryptic...might latch onto it.
Still, great list.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
Edit: I die all the time playing on normal difficulty. For the most part, I'm following a "Mountain" build, but with freeform, I get to pick up some melee attacks from other powersets and stat boosts. Don't remember what they're called right of the top of my head, but the "jack of all trades" thing, where ten stats get +2, etc.
Occam's Razor makes the cutting clean.
Id heard it was tough and i did want to play it, but after CO though, im kinda scared away by any game that bares a Monthly Subscription model. Most havent gone well.
I sub to CoX...nobody on, got bored (the British servers were empty, and at the time were not linked to USA which would have saved it)
I sub to WoW, good game but couldnt stand the kids behaviours, i want to be a happy gamer not a rager
I sub to Planetside..it dies..dunno why because i was in love with that game!
I sub to Age of Conan...again i loved it! but nobody else was on, i leveled to 80 and couldnt find anyone else in later zones, went bad to to lack of population and lack of content.
I sub to DCUO...eww! Bad combat system! Run away! Arthritis says button-masher game must be avoided!
I sub and buy LIFETIME to CO...it has so far lasted the longest, and im still here with some hope...not much left tho.
After it all, iv concluded that i will never go on a Sub-based game ever again.
That's just me tho! Im sure other peoples experiences have been more positive.
I don't think sub based systems are bad. In fact, I think they're very good. I think F2P with an item shop is fine as well.
It's hybrid and lifetime subscriptions that are bad imo.
With the first, the developer puts themself in a position where they have to try balancing the perks of being a subscriber vs. trying to get nonpaying customers to actually spend some money and it's a very delicate balancing act that I've yet to see someone do well.
Lifetime subscriptions are nothing more than an attempt to grab as much cash from the players as they can early on which results in the developers scrabbling to find additional sources of income down the road. I've yet to do a lifetime subscription to any game simply because I lack confidence in the longevity of a game that offers them.
You gaming lightweight . You want hard you play DARK FREAKING SOULS !
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
They denied it, but the whole "We didnt put all that money into STO" i never bought it, still dont. The launch should have been enough to do far more than what we got. With whats happening with us AND STO now...its pretty obvious its going into Neverwinter.
Rinse and repeat.
You watch;
Neverwinter will launch, and after a few months itll be this again: "Cryptic to launch a new game!"
My Little Champions WinterRim TrekCraft...ahhh i can see it now.
Atari originally bought Cryptic because the studio had an an engine and a plan for fast turnout of new games. Atari planned to use this potential profitability to shore up their company. It didn't work out for them long term. PWI bought the company, and is converting those existing games to its model. I've seen nothing that said that long term plans do not still include turning out new games on a regular basis.
I been a long time leaving but I'm going to be a long time gone.
Willie Nelson
T.U.F.K.A.S. (the user formerly known as Scarlyng)
Wrong on the CO forums since November, 2008
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
But if I have to use free ATs to enjoy this game's actual gameplay, that begs the question of why I'm paying to play.
Thats simple because you pay to be OP if you choose to be. You also get any new premium AT for free . You dont have the 250g limit. You dont have to buy some costume packs. You can color your powers. You have access to PTS server ( PTS is rather awesome I know people who ONLY play on PTS) . You have access to more travel powers. You can use pidgin to chat to CO while not in game AND you get a free hideout.
Even without freeform thats worth $15 a month or a LTS.
I run many AT's Behemoth being my fave ^__^
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
No, we pay to have options. That those options happen to be OP is of no devise of my own, but of the design of the game. And telling a player that wants to play a toon whose concept is that they have the power to control the weather and create hurricanes (for example) not to pick Hurricane if they want a challenge because the power can be used to steamroll through most of the game's PvE content by dishing out huge amouts of damage to every single mob in a large area around you by keeping a single button pressed all the time as you move is not a solution to the problem, or evidence than the player is the source of the problem, but rather a cop out in addressing the issue.
Imagine if every game maker in the industry was like "Listen... we don't need to design good games that are fun, because players will just find a way to have fun in them no matter what we do! After all, they're not paying to play our product, they're paying to figure out how to play our product in a way that is fun for them."
Lifetime Subscribers bought in with the belief that the game would continue to grow. If I hopped in my Tardis and traveled back and told everyone of them "Oh by the way, what you're doing now? You're going to be doing that years from now, and it's going to be even easier", how many of them might reconsider their purchase? Hell, how many regular subscribers might reconsider their continued subscription?
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
No. To you that's worth $15 a month.
I pay for my subscription because I like playing freeform characters.
The only other thing I get out of it that I have any interest in and can't get on my own in a reasonable amount of time from grinding Q is emanation points and color tinting.
Emanation points and color tinting are not worth $15 a month.
I wrote this .
Thats simple because you pay to be OP if you choose to be. You also get any new premium AT for free . You dont have the 250g limit. You dont have to buy some costume packs. You can color your powers. You have access to PTS server ( PTS is rather awesome I know people who ONLY play on PTS) . You have access to more travel powers. You can use pidgin to chat to CO while not in game AND you get a free hideout.
Even without freeform thats worth $15 a month or a LTS.
I run many AT's Behemoth being my fave ^__^
A simple enough question with a simple enough answer I listed what else you get for your sub.
And you said this.
Im a LTS and I dont need to figure out how to have fun I just have fun. But in what way does your post list what else we get for subscriptions or LTS >___> ?
Now Arimikami replyed
Basically Arimikami said the only thing worth subbing for is freeform a very valid point held by many a player. Though I must point out I did say we get more than color tinting and I didnt say Emanation points. So I can add Emanation points to that list
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
....girrrrl you crazy
Only reason to sub i see any (thanks to the freeform slot of 'screw you subscribers') is for the stipend...which isnt a whole lot.
I wonder how many months subscribed it would take to earn the stipend to purchase a Rank8 > Rank9 Catalyst...first off, a lot...second...thaaats a lot of money...
No
After analyzing it several times its only worth subscribing for 1 month to claim all the content, bonuses with bein a goldy, the 400 stipend once, then turnin it off. Most amount of stuff, for your buck is by doing that.
I'll clarify for you. We shouldn't have to jump through hoops to indulge in the genre that the game explicitly offers as its core premise; gimping yourself, not playing a freeform.... those are the hoops you have to jump through to get any sort of epic feeling out of a game that on the surface appears to be offering an epic genre.
I'm not sure where you got the idea that I was trying to list what you get for subscriptions or LTS, since I didn't do that ( as you, oddly enough, pointed out) so I won't respond to that.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
Yeah, but arimikami said that in reply to this...
...in regards to which this...
...is still a relevant point to make.
And none of your points explain how having to limit yourself to the weakest AT's in the game, or go through considerable lengths to use reverse-theorycrafting to work out the crappiest possible builts in order to find a challenge in this game is evidence that problem is in the players, rather than that the perception that challenge in this game is negligible is correct. If we have to go to lengths to make a character that's weak enough to find challenge in this game I see that as evidence that challenge is in fact negligible rather than it being merely a matter of perception.
Considering I actually quit the game for a while before they dropped the patch that renerfed the mobs, buffed a bunch of passives, and in general undid the damage the launch day patch did. Yes. I would. I'd consider staying subbed. If you told me that in addition to the Gadroon nerfs, they were nerfing all the other bull****, Cryptic would have gotten more money out of me, at least in the immediate present.
In fact, the whole game would probably be better off if you did this, because you'd **** with the time stream and potentially convince people who didn't like feeling like Toilet Paper Man to maybe tough it out a little longer. Man, if I had a buck for every time I've heard someone complain about the launch day bull**** when I'm talking about Champions Online...
Also, agreeing with Nepht on this particular point. To be blunt, if you pay for freeform for the options, one of those options, which is your choice to take or not take, is to build overpowered characters. If you don't want to take the opposite route and build underpowered, well I have no empathy for you. I already sacrifice theme and/or concept for the opposite, and remember what it was like when that was even worse, so suck it up.
...I just recently realized something really disturbing. We're all eating Sodapop3's "humble pie."
You have no empathy for people who aren't getting what they paid for. I'd like to be surprised... but I've read you before.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
See my last two posts, above, for counter-arguments to these oft repeated points that the people making them never seem to address.
I've been ignoring you for a while now, because I've read you before and know you're incapable of understanding anything, but to be blunt the attitude the elitists had when the tables were turned was far nastier than anything I said there. The reason I have no empathy, is because I know for a fact that if they amped up the difficulty by 500% tomorrow, when the sea of much expected complaints came rolling in, Snake here would be making a thread named something similar to "QQ CRY SOME MORE."
I'm not stupid. I'm cynical, but I'm not stupid.
...I just recently realized something really disturbing. We're all eating Sodapop3's "humble pie."
My post addresses your last post. Read it again. The other party in this conversation is already doing the reverse of what's being suggested, and has been for a long time. It doesn't suit your argument, that this is the case, but it's still the case.
Also, past that, I'm ignoring some things because in the grand scheme of things they don't actually prove anything, or aren't relevant to the conversation and I'm not going off in another weird direction again.
...I just recently realized something really disturbing. We're all eating Sodapop3's "humble pie."
No, it doesn't. You just make blanket accusations that anyone failing to find a challenge in this game's content is making so called "overpowered" characters without explaining exactly how you arrived at that conclusion or what constitudes an "overpowered" character, while ignoring the fact that just about any power in this game can be considered "overpowered", that some of those so called "overpowered" abilities might be required for certain concepts, or that it is far easier to create an effective toon capable of rolling through most regular content than it is to create a gimp one (unless you go out of your way to select powers that have no bearing with eachother, such as taking Concentration on a melee toon or things like that).
So i go back to AT's and feel utterly bored..and having learned more of the CO battle system, am able to make even AT's solo elite content. I am left with no choice, and nothing to lose asking for a change in difficulty for the higher end of the difficulty options.
Of course even with AT's now...thanks to a lot of people who didnt bother to learn the game, wanted things to be even easier.
Stuff i hear like "The tutorial is too hard" (and iv seen some of them play) arent using block, arent listening to the tutorial, and in many cases are too young to understand the complexity of a RPG to care to do anything but mash a button and not understand gear and tactics.
This leaves me, someone who has paid for a freeform character, feeling like that by paying and being a contribution to the Cryptic/Co team effort..i have ruined my game, because its built for the kiddies or whiners who just leave the game shortly after joining.
Well when i switch to elite...i should be switching to "Grown up mode" because a lot of people...MOSTLY those who know how to play this game AND ARE THE MAJORITY STILL HERE and of age, seem to only stick around for the PvP because the only challenge there is, is fighting each other.
The regular names you commonly see in this game are stuck in Ren-Cen..waiting for a new PvP mode or something to do because the content is so easy it is not even considered!
I however am a strictly PVE type person....finding it super hard not to leave. I use the word Hope here again.
Ultimately my point boils down to this...people are powerful...why does the content in the higher difficulties, still represent the ability of AT's and the kids who quit the game on day 1, when people who have Paid to become more than a small-grade hero and have been around since launch with excellent rpg skills..still are playing at the difficulty set for the people who arent even sticking around?
Long term, good players deserve their own difficulty that does not feel so insulting to their ability to play this game.
I get it, some people are shockingly bad at this game, but normal mode however caters to them very well.
Those who are good at the game, QUIT...because the hardest level of difficulty, insults their capability, and to a team of good players, well its just a spit in the face.
"You shouldnt have subscribed bro"... < is that really the message you should put out Cryptic? ..no
Says you. Which you say, because it doesn't suit you that it does.
If you think picking up Hurricane is enough to constitute an overpowered character, then you really have no place saying what anyone's post addresses.
To put it in perspective, building a Tank that doesn't do decent damage, makes you useless to a team. Building a tank that does decent damage and had decent defense, but can't heal himself, makes you team dependent. Building a squishy with really high damage and no defense makes you want to rip your hair out. I think people are too damn used to building solid characters to remember what it's like to take a few of those "options" they insist on using out of the equation.
And ultimately, my overarching point here is that we're already doing what you're being told to do, on the other end of the scale. I've already said this, if you want to talk about good points being ignored. Fact is, if I don't want to glow like a Cristmass Tree, tough. If chi powah and holy healing of self isn't my thing, too bad. Fact is the game dictates I need a dependable way of healing myself, unless I want to drag someone around all the damn time and have them buttmedic me, which is not something I think forcing players to do is a good idea.
As it stands, this is the option, you have, right now. As it stands, that's the option, I have, right now. Maybe one day we can have an awesome over the top difficulty slider, and all the powers in the game can be super balanced, and have custom animations and effects for every theme under the rainbow, and theme builds that are well built can even do the hardest game mode if the player behind them is good. And maybe I'll win the damn lottery and unicorns will fly over my head and crap cadbury eggs. But what's being said here, is if you find the game too easy, there IS an option, whether you accept it or not is up to you.
...I just recently realized something really disturbing. We're all eating Sodapop3's "humble pie."
Any good player need only pick 2 Powers to become 'overpowered' to you.
Well saying you responded to a list of what do we get other than freeform in gold status. I was expecting something added . Which you didnt . Instead you started on about jumping through hoops to have fun. Now I am starting to think you meant to reply to the below post of mine.
^^ This post can be called jumping through hoops.
^^ this post is a list of other stuff gold status gives you. This is the one you responded to.
I am finding your concepts of hoops and lists .....
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
No, all you did was reassert your opinion that the lack of challenge is exclusively the result of people making "overpowered" characters, which is a pretty vague and subjective term. Intentionally gimping yourself in order to artificially make the game challenging does not solve the issue of the lack of challenge on most content in this game. If anything it supports the idea that there is a lack of challenge, because otherwise you wouldn't have to GIMP yourself in order to get it.
Pretty much this, if YOU are purposely making a weak build in order to find a challenge, YOU are telling us that its too easy.
Nuff said at this stage of the topic.
How about no.
How about you go back and actually read what I said.
...I just recently realized something really disturbing. We're all eating Sodapop3's "humble pie."
Also, I'm not deliberately gimping myself. I'm capable of reading power descriptions and basing my choices on what I perceive as good picks that follow a theme.
I seriously don't get where you people are coming off that the game isn't challenging enough.
Also, as I said, you want hard? Go play The Secret World for a bit. You'll come screaming back here for mommy.
Occam's Razor makes the cutting clean.
It's not the powers, it's the layered defenses, heals and buffs. CO offers multiple options for defense and offense. Those who stack these options over-perform. If you want build advice, you might visit the Builds Sub-Forum in Combat and Powers, if you haven't already. Heck, these days people are posting for build advice in the Combat and Powers forum itself.
I been a long time leaving but I'm going to be a long time gone.
Willie Nelson
T.U.F.K.A.S. (the user formerly known as Scarlyng)
Wrong on the CO forums since November, 2008
Devil May Cry has a mode that reduces you to one HP, so everything kills you in one hit. There's two versions of this, and the bad one also gives enemies access to more power.
Cave Story has something similar, it strips all the health upgrades from the game, but I think one or two.
The Megaman Zero and ZX games' "hard" mode not only made enemies faster and stronger, but stripped you of subtanks and in the Zero games some of your weapon upgrades.
From what I remember, some of the blessings, or rather, "blessings," you could get from idols in Bastion also functioned in this manner, although most of them did increase the power of enemies. Some of the weapons in that game were also significantly better or worse than other options.
This is a choice. The player never has to turn any of this crap on, and "gimp" themselves.
...I just recently realized something really disturbing. We're all eating Sodapop3's "humble pie."
No, I was merely jesting when I was asking which two powers to make you uber I need to pick.
As I said, I'm perfectly capable of reading descriptions and picking what I perceive to be good powers.
But to address the original poster's subject.....why must everyone suffer when a player(or even a hundred players...heck any number of players) minmax their builds so that the game's difficulty slider becomes a joke?
The game is perfectly hard enough for me, personally...and I can bet there's more than a few players that don't even READ the forums that would agree. My answer to that is....no. Leave the slider just the way it is. You want difficult? Grab a team of five, set at the highest difficulty, then go into the instance and boot the team. There's a map set at the highest difficulty for a team of five. Go to town. Or solo the alerts. Get a team of noobs and let them sit back and bask in awe of your leetness as you single handedly demolish content designed for a team.
Still too easy? Too bad. Don't make it impossible for the rest of us.
Occam's Razor makes the cutting clean.
I colored this part because I think it's pretty relevant.
So, you're saying that if we want more of a challenge to use the difficulty slider?
What about those of us that have been and are saying that the maximum difficulty needs to be made tougher since right now it's not much of a challenge?
Mercy, you know me. You've known me for a couple years now. I'd like to think you know that I like it when everybody is able to enjoy themselves.
I'm not saying that the entire game needs to be made impossibly difficult for everyone.
I am saying that the maximum difficulty level does need to be looked at and rebalanced.
Also, that last comment can be easily reversed.
Max dif too hard? Too bad. That's what lower difficulty settings are for.
See?