I've been spending way too much time pondering (and boring my wife over dinner) this topic, but it's both interesting and worrisome.
First, the analogy people are making with expansions in other games doesn't really hold. As I mentioned early on and others have echoed, changes like this in other games are nearly always coupled with real 'expansions' of content and level cap. I have seen a few changes like this previously - for example, in WoW, there've been several cases where statistics on items were changed or consolidated - e.g., replacing "spell hit" and "melee hit" ratings with a single "hit rating." In almost all cases I can bring to mind, however, the changes of this sort never render existing gear much weaker for characters who have it. I know there were many times that my level capped characters CHOSE to get gear with new stats on it but I could have kept playing with the old gear without a reduction in effectiveness.
That being said, the argument that "it hasn't been done this way before" doesn't hold much water in and of itself. As others have said, the game does need some sort of change like this. To me, the question is, "Why haven't other games followed this route previously?"
I think the reason is pretty well voiced in this thread - people aren't happy that items they spend many hours acquiring are suddenly "worthless" (or, at least, far outclassed) for the same content they've been doing. I clearly recall in EverQuest, for example, feeling great anticipation when items with "Flowing Thought" were added - my character would become BETTER as a result of getting an item with that stat on it. The key difference, though, is that my character would be unchanged if i did NOT pursue those new items.
Personally, this is the crux of it. There's no getting around that many players will be angry on patch day when their relative effectiveness against existing content drops significantly. Players not at the cap or who have not fully equipped their characters won't care and will be excited - they get to skip ever going after Unity 2 gear or farming Serpent Lantern for the current "best" gear.
If content is going to be re-tuned for the new stat system, something really should be done to reduce the sting to the former group. Obviously Cryptic can take the position that "You already got use out of that gear, now go out and re-gear to get back to where you were" - their game, their rules. By the same token, existing players have a right to be upset about it - with plenty of justification for the anger.
Just a thought - but there should be a way to "turn in" existing Unity gear and scaled blues to get SOME tokens in the new system. Personally, I think this would go a long way to salving the sting of the change.
The idea being that you get something "back" for the time you put in to get the item. This would also mean the old content could still be completed but allow the player to earn "points" toward the new items. (Of course Nemesis and PVP would need to be considered as well.)
I don't mean my back-of-a-napkin idea to be a design, but really want to suggest that some system be put in place to show players who have sunk many hours into the game that you aren't just leaving them out in the cold. (Or hold off on the stat/gear change and couple it with an actual level increase.)
I've been spending way too much time pondering (and boring my wife over dinner) this topic, but it's both interesting and worrisome.
First, the analogy people are making with expansions in other games doesn't really hold. As I mentioned early on and others have echoed, changes like this in other games are nearly always coupled with real 'expansions' of content and level cap. I have seen a few changes like this previously - for example, in WoW, there've been several cases where statistics on items were changed or consolidated - e.g., replacing "spell hit" and "melee hit" ratings with a single "hit rating." In almost all cases I can bring to mind, however, the changes of this sort never render existing gear much weaker for characters who have it. I know there were many times that my level capped characters CHOSE to get gear with new stats on it but I could have kept playing with the old gear without a reduction in effectiveness.
That being said, the argument that "it hasn't been done this way before" doesn't hold much water in and of itself. As others have said, the game does need some sort of change like this. To me, the question is, "Why haven't other games followed this route previously?"
I think the reason is pretty well voiced in this thread - people aren't happy that items they spend many hours acquiring are suddenly "worthless" (or, at least, far outclassed) for the same content they've been doing. I clearly recall in EverQuest, for example, feeling great anticipation when items with "Flowing Thought" were added - my character would become BETTER as a result of getting an item with that stat on it. The key difference, though, is that my character would be unchanged if i did NOT pursue those new items.
Personally, this is the crux of it. There's no getting around that many players will be angry on patch day when their relative effectiveness against existing content drops significantly. Players not at the cap or who have not fully equipped their characters won't care and will be excited - they get to skip ever going after Unity 2 gear or farming Serpent Lantern for the current "best" gear.
If content is going to be re-tuned for the new stat system, something really should be done to reduce the sting to the former group. Obviously Cryptic can take the position that "You already got use out of that gear, now go out and re-gear to get back to where you were" - their game, their rules. By the same token, existing players have a right to be upset about it - with plenty of justification for the anger.
Just a thought - but there should be a way to "turn in" existing Unity gear and scaled blues to get SOME tokens in the new system. Personally, I think this would go a long way to salving the sting of the change.
The idea being that you get something "back" for the time you put in to get the item. This would also mean the old content could still be completed but allow the player to earn "points" toward the new items. (Of course Nemesis and PVP would need to be considered as well.)
I don't mean my back-of-a-napkin idea to be a design, but really want to suggest that some system be put in place to show players who have sunk many hours into the game that you aren't just leaving them out in the cold. (Or hold off on the stat/gear change and couple it with an actual level increase.)
Existing content isn't being buffed (not yet, anyway).
So you'll be as effective against existing content after the patch as you were before. Probably moreso due to the introduction of the Specialization Trees (and maybe less so if you were using an Ego-based build for crit chance/severity).
actually, the gear hasn't changed since the alerts went up on the PTS. new gear anyways.
there are tiers to the gear, that's what it looks like. so i'd imagine that either:
they'll release the rest when the alerts(all of them) are done, or they'll gradually release the higher tiers with newer alerts.
actually, the gear hasn't changed since the alerts went up on the PTS. new gear anyways.
there are tiers to the gear, that's what it looks like. so i'd imagine that either:
they'll release the rest when the alerts(all of them) are done, or they'll gradually release the higher tiers with newer alerts.
More like release them when Crush is done with them and they update the loot drop tables. The gear has changed actually, but there is only one place to get it. From a special vendor near the power house. And it's random chance, and no it's not debugger.
Existing content isn't being buffed (not yet, anyway).
So you'll be as effective against existing content after the patch as you were before. Probably moreso due to the introduction of the Specialization Trees (and maybe less so if you were using an Ego-based build for crit chance/severity).
If it's the case that existing content is NOT being buffed, then this should be OK - replacing elite blues with new purples and getting a slight power increase should make everyone happy (aside from those who complain that the game is too easy).
However, my reading of comments like the ones below indicated that existing content ("critters") WOULD be buffed:
If I'm making a poor inference from that sort of comment, then great. However, "decidedly sub optimal" gear doesn't imply to me that you'd still be around your current level of power.
I don't envy the balancing act required here - make new gear that people want to get without trivializing existing content... but also don't make existing gear worthless.
If it's the case that existing content is NOT being buffed, then this should be OK - replacing elite blues with new purples and getting a slight power increase should make everyone happy (aside from those who complain that the game is too easy).
However, my reading of comments like the ones below indicated that existing content ("critters") WOULD be buffed:
If I'm making a poor inference from that sort of comment, then great. However, "decidedly sub optimal" gear doesn't imply to me that you'd still be around your current level of power.
I don't envy the balancing act required here - make new gear that people want to get without trivializing existing content... but also don't make existing gear worthless.
These are certainly valid concerns, but remember that with the addition of Spec trees as well you will actually fall naturally higher on the power curve (our current one, not the new one!) than you do now. Any changes we make are largely to keep critters and you guys relatively the same distance apart as you are now, and we will be undergoing much testing and tweaking to make certain of this fact.
Please note that this is an ongoing process and we likely will change things as often as we need so we can keep up with the flood of new data you keep providing us!
TL;DR You guys will still be as powerful relative to critters as you are now (approximately anyway).
These are certainly valid concerns, but remember that with the addition of Spec trees as well you will actually fall naturally higher on the power curve (our current one, not the new one!) than you do now. Any changes we make are largely to keep critters and you guys relatively the same distance apart as you are now, and we will be undergoing much testing and tweaking to make certain of this fact.
Please note that this is an ongoing process and we likely will change things as often as we need so we can keep up with the flood of new data you keep providing us!
TL;DR You guys will still be as powerful relative to critters as you are now (approximately anyway).
Thanks much for the clarification - I'm actually pretty excited for the change. (Some weird kind of dissonance right now keeping me from playing - since any gear/tokens/whatever I get on live seems pointless until the new system goes live.)
More like release them when Crush is done with them and they update the loot drop tables. The gear has changed actually, but there is only one place to get it. From a special vendor near the power house. And it's random chance, and no it's not debugger.
no, the gear hasn't changed, the green gear is still green and it's still tier 0. you think i haven't been there when the alerts were released? i know about the vendor...
Hey everyone! I have been working dutifully on the items and wanted to share some cool stuff with you all. Those of you who have been on PTS have seen some of the new stats that appear on items now, and I want to give you guys the full list of Sub Stats (Stats that arent one of our 8 primary Stats) that you can have an a particular piece of equipment!
DISCLAIMER! ALL OF THESE ARE SUBJECT TO CHANGE AT ANY TIME!
First up we have Offenses!
Bonus Offense
Critical Chance
Critical Severity
Bonus Healing
Bonus Superstat (this one adds points to your selected SS)
i have never seen the +mini-map radius have any effect in pve or in pvp ive seen the perception bonus tied with it being useful though but those are 2 separate things now
Only works against players is what I'm guessing. Although Perception is still useful in PvE against mobs that can go invisible and such.
Both yes and no. It means that "These stats are more desirable for PVP than PVE". Resilience and Armor Penetration from gear will both work on players only at this time, but perception remains unchanged.
Hey everyone! I have been working dutifully on the items and wanted to share some cool stuff with you all. Those of you who have been on PTS have seen some of the new stats that appear on items now, and I want to give you guys the full list of Sub Stats (Stats that arent one of our 8 primary Stats) that you can have an a particular piece of equipment!
DISCLAIMER! ALL OF THESE ARE SUBJECT TO CHANGE AT ANY TIME!
First up we have Offenses!
Bonus Offense
Critical Chance
Critical Severity
Bonus Healing
Bonus Superstat (this one adds points to your selected SS)
Armor Penetration (PVP)
Next up are Defenses!
Bonus Armor
Bonus Health
Crowd Control Resistance
Dodge
Avoidance
Resilience (PVP)
Lastly we have Utilities!
Cooldown Reduction
Power Cost Discount
Bonus Energy
Minimap Radius
Crowd Control Strength
Perception (PVP)
I like the way this looks. Are there any recurring buffs like "Coruscating Might" or "Chonomancer's (which slowed down walking speed .. but not flying incidentlly).
Is the new Perception no longer TIED to Minimap radius? If so does INT now give proper stealth Sight to be able to see through stealth with only +Minimap Radius?
Does Cooldown Reduction stack on TOP of the diminishing return of INT and/or Aura of Clarity or is it for base amounts?
Will avoidance work better against long range attacks or has that been removed completely?
Does anyone in this game actually use +minimap radius for anything? Is it actually useful?
Yes in limited situations; for example, it's handy in the ellie mission in aftershock, and sometimes makes friendly NPCs easier to spot. The main reason to use +perception in PvE is stuff that spams the (blinding) NPC version of snowstorm, of course.
On the topic of the new stats, is armor penetration the ability to penetrate damage resistance, damage reduction (invuln, etc), or something else? I don't see a particular reason for either trait to be PvP-only, though damage reduction is almost nonexistent in PvE (damage resistance is present on all elite NPCs, though only in small quantities).
I am interested in the difference between "Bonus Armor" and "Resilience." If there's no real difference, why would a stat that only works in PvP be desireable?
Yes in limited situations; for example, it's handy in the ellie mission in aftershock, and sometimes makes friendly NPCs easier to spot. The main reason to use +perception in PvE is stuff that spams the (blinding) NPC version of snowstorm, of course.
^+∞
freon and nimbus alone make it worthwhile to have the option available. northern Canada comes to mind as well.
Both yes and no. It means that "These stats are more desirable for PVP than PVE". Resilience and Armor Penetration from gear will both work on players only at this time, but perception remains unchanged.
Y U DO DIS EH? When everyone says they don't want "players only" effects on gear....
i agree it shouldn't be splitted, but instead. i'd rather see specific stat effects for PVP/PVE.
add phases into the game. while in the PvE phase, this stat will give you this and that. while the PvP phase the same stat will give you something else. etc.
Hey everyone! I have been working dutifully on the items and wanted to share some cool stuff with you all. Those of you who have been on PTS have seen some of the new stats that appear on items now, and I want to give you guys the full list of Sub Stats (Stats that arent one of our 8 primary Stats) that you can have an a particular piece of equipment!
DISCLAIMER! ALL OF THESE ARE SUBJECT TO CHANGE AT ANY TIME!
First up we have Offenses!
Bonus Offense
Critical Chance
Critical Severity
Bonus Healing
Bonus Superstat (this one adds points to your selected SS)
add phases into the game. while in the PvE phase, this stat will give you this and that. while the PvP phase the same stat will give you something else. etc.
I support this suggestion. I am alright with one ability being more useful in PvP than in PvE (or vice-versa), since you've always had such powers, but abilities plainly not working outside of PvP? Don't like that one bit...
Bonus Superstat (this one adds points to your selected SS)
I see "offense", where's "defense"? (I thought the new PD/ED was supposed to be rolled into one "Defense" stat?)
CC and CS seperately?
Bonus SS? (Can we assume it's the "Primary" SS?)
...Is the new Perception no longer tied to Minimap radius?
If so does INT now give proper stealth Sight to be able to see through stealth with only +Minimap Radius?...
I am interested in the difference between "Bonus Armor" and "Resilience."
If there's no real difference, why would a stat that only works in PvP be desireable?
Hey everyone! I have been working dutifully on the items and wanted to share some cool stuff with you all. Those of you who have been on PTS have seen some of the new stats that appear on items now, and I want to give you guys the full list of Sub Stats (Stats that arent one of our 8 primary Stats) that you can have an a particular piece of equipment!
DISCLAIMER! ALL OF THESE ARE SUBJECT TO CHANGE AT ANY TIME!
First up we have Offenses!
Bonus Offense
Critical Chance
Critical Severity
Bonus Healing
Bonus Superstat (this one adds points to your selected SS)
Armor Penetration (PVP)
Next up are Defenses!
Bonus Armor
Bonus Health
Crowd Control Resistance
Dodge
Avoidance
Resilience (PVP)
Lastly we have Utilities!
Cooldown Reduction
Power Cost Discount
Bonus Energy
Minimap Radius
Crowd Control Strength
Perception (PVP)
Dodge and avoidance are seperate?
Why are you seperating two effects that are useless without the other?
And let me add my voice to the: Player only effects only serve to drive people away from PVP.
Did Issue 13 of City of Heroes teach people nothing?
With the proposed gear changes, it really seems like problems with powers and powersets are being addressed through equipment, which will fail to solve the issues and merely add more work and complication in their implementation.
Now, as far as equipment goes, before overhauling the current standard, identifying the current issues on live would be a good start.
First and foremost, arguably the biggest problem is that the highest end gear comes out of elite scaled Serpent Lantern/Resistance or Hero Games rewards. Optimal gear loadouts will generally require a combination from these sources ONLY. Aside from a select few purples off Takofanes, rewards for defeating cosmic bosses are underwhelming. Most mission rewards offer mere trinkets, and those of value are generally because they offer some device-like functionality. The crafting system offers nothing practical in its current state. Unity and Nemesis rewards require more time and effort than Adv packs/Hero Games and are less powerful on top of that.
Stat restrictions on slots do limit the choices in effective superstat combinations, so by eliminating this it will open some new possibilties. However, the superstats themselves are the bigger issue. Particular stats offer far more useful bonuses than others by a wide margin.
Holy crap, you guys are adding a resilience stat to pvp? This isn't Rift or WoW yet you guys are going to try and follow their approach to pvp? You do realize that they have a much larger subscription base than this game with many more pvpers.
CO can't afford to have a divide like this between pvpers and pve players. This will further keep pve players from wanting to try pvp as they are less likely to grind out the points that are needed to get the resilience gear.
There are too many sweeping changes taking place, and this is definitely one that doesn't need to be in this game.
I'm not looking forward to the upcoming patch at all.
This will further keep pve players from wanting to try pvp as they are less likely to grind out the points that are needed to get the resilience gear.
Nah, I'm pretty sure us PVE only crowd stay away from PVP stuff entirely. I seriously doubt it will change anything. The ones that are PVP ignorant now will respond the same way if this is in place than if it wasn't.
With the proposed gear changes, it really seems like problems with powers and powersets are being addressed through equipment, which will fail to solve the issues and merely add more work and complication in their implementation.
Now, as far as equipment goes, before overhauling the current standard, identifying the current issues on live would be a good start.
First and foremost, arguably the biggest problem is that the highest end gear comes out of elite scaled Serpent Lantern/Resistance or Hero Games rewards. Optimal gear loadouts will generally require a combination from these sources ONLY. Aside from a select few purples off Takofanes, rewards for defeating cosmic bosses are underwhelming. Most mission rewards offer mere trinkets, and those of value are generally because they offer some device-like functionality. The crafting system offers nothing practical in its current state. Unity and Nemesis rewards require more time and effort than Adv packs/Hero Games and are less powerful on top of that.
Stat restrictions on slots do limit the choices in effective superstat combinations, so by eliminating this it will open some new possibilties. However, the superstats themselves are the bigger issue. Particular stats offer far more useful bonuses than others by a wide margin.
With the new gear its been stated numerous times that there are no more stat restrictions on items. There are only the sub stat restrictions as GC as posted.
We do not know what the new crafting/specialization is going to offer, but we do know that the best gear, the purples, will be obtained from doing lairs on elite. IIRC, I think adventure packs and comic series and lairs and such on normal are before that.
I don't know if its been mentioned what is going to happen to unity, nemesis and pvp gear. All in all, while communication has been sporadic in the attempt of enticing us, we've not been given enough to pull the whole picture together yet.
Which is sort of funny, since the clock is now ticking if they want to get this stuff done by the end of the month.
Nah, I'm pretty sure us PVE only crowd stay away from PVP stuff entirely.
The PVE only crowd does, but there's a medium number of people who decide to try out PvP at some point or another even though they've mostly done PvE up to then. Often they decide to try it out at level 40, which is pretty painful for them even without PvP-specific gear; making it more painful isn't desirable.
I think the theory is that they want to have 'PvP gear' that you can get from the PvP vendor, that is desirable for PvPers, but that PvEers won't feel that they have to farm ZA to get. This is understandable, but there's better ways to achieve that goal.
I'm apposed to pvp and pve gear separation but, cant you have 2 builds with separate gear?
Why cant you have separate gear load-outs for pvp and pve on the same toon?
I do this already with perception gear (which i only use in pvp).
I see "offense", where's "defense"? (I thought the new PD/ED was supposed to be rolled into one "Defense" stat?)
CC and CS seperately?
Bonus SS? (Can we assume it's the "Primary" SS?)
Bonus Armor? (Is this "mitigation"? As in Defiance, or what?)
Again, D and A seperately?
Hmm, not sure i like the +PER & MM seperately...
I use it for farming nodes, other than that, not that i know of.
Yeah, inquring minds want to know...
Ditto...
Bleh, i hope not!
Ill try and answer these in order.
Bonus Armor is Bonus Defense, My brain just shorted out while I was writing it and said "That thing that makes you defensive!"
As to why I have separated the stats (Dodge/Avoid and MM/Per), This allows me to give you bigger bonuses to those stats without breaking things. This also introduces some element of choice. Before you wanted to be a Dodge tank, you just got both. Now you have to make the choice of which you want more. Do I want more to more often dodge attacks? Or would I like to dodge for much more when I do. Which will benefit me more? These kinds of choices help make gear feel more personal, and give it more of the "This is part of MY build" feeling.
As to the PVP stats, they are optional choices instead of a substat. So for example, if I am running a Defile Tapper build designed to spike, I can now have some degree of meaningful defense against people built into my gear. And conversely I could take armor penetration for other attacks, allowing more interesting builds. But to do that I give up the chance to use Dodge/Avoid/Bonus Defense and Crit Chance/Severity/Bonus Offense respectively. These stats will not be NECESSARY to pvp, but they will allow you to shore up different areas of a build where the other substats are just not desirable.
I hope that helps explain the thoughts behind some of these changes a little better!
As to the PVP stats, they are optional choices instead of a substat.
If they're balanced for use in PvP, rather than just being strictly superior, there's no reason they can't be used in PvE (though there aren't too many critters with either armor or an AP attack). If they're not balanced for use in PvP, they shouldn't exist at all.
If they're balanced for use in PvP, rather than just being strictly superior, there's no reason they can't be used in PvE (though there aren't too many critters with either armor or an AP attack). If they're not balanced for use in PvP, they shouldn't exist at all.
They will be superior in some situations (some builds will benefit more from those stats just as a hazard of their build being well suited to it). They are *currently* not planned to work in PVE, but that topic is one of discussion here internally, and as I know more I will endeavor to relay that to you guys.
They will be superior in some situations (some builds will benefit more from those stats just as a hazard of their build being well suited to it). They are *currently* not planned to work in PVE, but that topic is one of discussion here internally, and as I know more I will endeavor to relay that to you guys.
That doesn't really answer what the difference between Resiliency and Bonus Defense is. They sound like the same thing, except one only works in PvP? That doesn't make sense to me. Clarification would be greatly appreciated.
That doesn't really answer what the difference between Resiliency and Bonus Defense is. They sound like the same thing, except one only works in PvP? That doesn't make sense to me. Clarification would be greatly appreciated.
Bonus Defense just adds to your defense stat more than the gear normally would. Resilience is a separate (And slightly better performing in comparison to Armor) Resistance buff. But there are still things I have to work out (what things can penetrate Resilience, if it can be penetrated, etc) More information will be coming soon!
Hey Crush...so will these have a chance to add thread or is the only way to do that Tank role and Crippling Challenge / Challenging Strikes / Defensive Combo?
Comments
Those are also assigned to specific items so they only appear on a certain piece type.
Perception gone from there now, too?
First, the analogy people are making with expansions in other games doesn't really hold. As I mentioned early on and others have echoed, changes like this in other games are nearly always coupled with real 'expansions' of content and level cap. I have seen a few changes like this previously - for example, in WoW, there've been several cases where statistics on items were changed or consolidated - e.g., replacing "spell hit" and "melee hit" ratings with a single "hit rating." In almost all cases I can bring to mind, however, the changes of this sort never render existing gear much weaker for characters who have it. I know there were many times that my level capped characters CHOSE to get gear with new stats on it but I could have kept playing with the old gear without a reduction in effectiveness.
That being said, the argument that "it hasn't been done this way before" doesn't hold much water in and of itself. As others have said, the game does need some sort of change like this. To me, the question is, "Why haven't other games followed this route previously?"
I think the reason is pretty well voiced in this thread - people aren't happy that items they spend many hours acquiring are suddenly "worthless" (or, at least, far outclassed) for the same content they've been doing. I clearly recall in EverQuest, for example, feeling great anticipation when items with "Flowing Thought" were added - my character would become BETTER as a result of getting an item with that stat on it. The key difference, though, is that my character would be unchanged if i did NOT pursue those new items.
Personally, this is the crux of it. There's no getting around that many players will be angry on patch day when their relative effectiveness against existing content drops significantly. Players not at the cap or who have not fully equipped their characters won't care and will be excited - they get to skip ever going after Unity 2 gear or farming Serpent Lantern for the current "best" gear.
If content is going to be re-tuned for the new stat system, something really should be done to reduce the sting to the former group. Obviously Cryptic can take the position that "You already got use out of that gear, now go out and re-gear to get back to where you were" - their game, their rules. By the same token, existing players have a right to be upset about it - with plenty of justification for the anger.
Just a thought - but there should be a way to "turn in" existing Unity gear and scaled blues to get SOME tokens in the new system. Personally, I think this would go a long way to salving the sting of the change.
Making up trade in point values, something like:
1 = "Elite" scaled item
10 = Unity 1 Secondary item
12 = Unity 2 Secondary item
40 = Unity 1 Primary item
48 = Unity 2 Primary item
The idea being that you get something "back" for the time you put in to get the item. This would also mean the old content could still be completed but allow the player to earn "points" toward the new items. (Of course Nemesis and PVP would need to be considered as well.)
I don't mean my back-of-a-napkin idea to be a design, but really want to suggest that some system be put in place to show players who have sunk many hours into the game that you aren't just leaving them out in the cold. (Or hold off on the stat/gear change and couple it with an actual level increase.)
This is an incomplete list, but I wont talk about the new stats till we get everything worked out. Also, perception is totally still there.
Existing content isn't being buffed (not yet, anyway).
So you'll be as effective against existing content after the patch as you were before. Probably moreso due to the introduction of the Specialization Trees (and maybe less so if you were using an Ego-based build for crit chance/severity).
maybe it is, but i haven't seen it. speaking of new... weren't we suppose to get new gear with the new alerts?
The alerts are testing out how they work the gear has been trickling in.
there are tiers to the gear, that's what it looks like. so i'd imagine that either:
they'll release the rest when the alerts(all of them) are done, or they'll gradually release the higher tiers with newer alerts.
More like release them when Crush is done with them and they update the loot drop tables. The gear has changed actually, but there is only one place to get it. From a special vendor near the power house. And it's random chance, and no it's not debugger.
If it's the case that existing content is NOT being buffed, then this should be OK - replacing elite blues with new purples and getting a slight power increase should make everyone happy (aside from those who complain that the game is too easy).
However, my reading of comments like the ones below indicated that existing content ("critters") WOULD be buffed:
http://forums.champions-online.com/showthread.php?p=2036321#post2036321
and
http://forums.champions-online.com/showthread.php?p=2035822#post2035822
If I'm making a poor inference from that sort of comment, then great.
I don't envy the balancing act required here - make new gear that people want to get without trivializing existing content... but also don't make existing gear worthless.
These are certainly valid concerns, but remember that with the addition of Spec trees as well you will actually fall naturally higher on the power curve (our current one, not the new one!) than you do now. Any changes we make are largely to keep critters and you guys relatively the same distance apart as you are now, and we will be undergoing much testing and tweaking to make certain of this fact.
Please note that this is an ongoing process and we likely will change things as often as we need so we can keep up with the flood of new data you keep providing us!
TL;DR You guys will still be as powerful relative to critters as you are now (approximately anyway).
Thanks much for the clarification - I'm actually pretty excited for the change. (Some weird kind of dissonance right now keeping me from playing - since any gear/tokens/whatever I get on live seems pointless until the new system goes live.)
I heard a rumor that CTPs were being done away with in this crafting pass. Is there any truth to that?
no, the gear hasn't changed, the green gear is still green and it's still tier 0. you think i haven't been there when the alerts were released? i know about the vendor...
DISCLAIMER! ALL OF THESE ARE SUBJECT TO CHANGE AT ANY TIME!
First up we have Offenses!
Next up are Defenses!
Lastly we have Utilities!
It's marginally useful in to see where enemies are in PvP. Probably will be even more useful with the release of Team Duels.
Only works against players is what I'm guessing. Although Perception is still useful in PvE against mobs that can go invisible and such.
Both yes and no. It means that "These stats are more desirable for PVP than PVE". Resilience and Armor Penetration from gear will both work on players only at this time, but perception remains unchanged.
I like the way this looks. Are there any recurring buffs like "Coruscating Might" or "Chonomancer's (which slowed down walking speed .. but not flying incidentlly).
Is the new Perception no longer TIED to Minimap radius? If so does INT now give proper stealth Sight to be able to see through stealth with only +Minimap Radius?
Does Cooldown Reduction stack on TOP of the diminishing return of INT and/or Aura of Clarity or is it for base amounts?
Will avoidance work better against long range attacks or has that been removed completely?
On the topic of the new stats, is armor penetration the ability to penetrate damage resistance, damage reduction (invuln, etc), or something else? I don't see a particular reason for either trait to be PvP-only, though damage reduction is almost nonexistent in PvE (damage resistance is present on all elite NPCs, though only in small quantities).
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freon and nimbus alone make it worthwhile to have the option available. northern Canada comes to mind as well.
Y U DO DIS EH? When everyone says they don't want "players only" effects on gear....
The PvE and PvP community shouldn't be splitted.
add phases into the game. while in the PvE phase, this stat will give you this and that. while the PvP phase the same stat will give you something else. etc.
So no more "Energy on Kill" items ?
I support this suggestion. I am alright with one ability being more useful in PvP than in PvE (or vice-versa), since you've always had such powers, but abilities plainly not working outside of PvP? Don't like that one bit...
CC and CS seperately?
Bonus SS? (Can we assume it's the "Primary" SS?)
Bonus Armor? (Is this "mitigation"? As in Defiance, or what?)
Again, D and A seperately?
Hmm, not sure i like the +PER & MM seperately...
I use it for farming nodes, other than that, not that i know of.
Yeah, inquring minds want to know...
Ditto...
Bleh, i hope not!
I'm guessing because he knows what's best for the players and for teh peeveepee.
Dodge and avoidance are seperate?
Why are you seperating two effects that are useless without the other?
And let me add my voice to the: Player only effects only serve to drive people away from PVP.
Did Issue 13 of City of Heroes teach people nothing?
Now, as far as equipment goes, before overhauling the current standard, identifying the current issues on live would be a good start.
First and foremost, arguably the biggest problem is that the highest end gear comes out of elite scaled Serpent Lantern/Resistance or Hero Games rewards. Optimal gear loadouts will generally require a combination from these sources ONLY. Aside from a select few purples off Takofanes, rewards for defeating cosmic bosses are underwhelming. Most mission rewards offer mere trinkets, and those of value are generally because they offer some device-like functionality. The crafting system offers nothing practical in its current state. Unity and Nemesis rewards require more time and effort than Adv packs/Hero Games and are less powerful on top of that.
Stat restrictions on slots do limit the choices in effective superstat combinations, so by eliminating this it will open some new possibilties. However, the superstats themselves are the bigger issue. Particular stats offer far more useful bonuses than others by a wide margin.
CO can't afford to have a divide like this between pvpers and pve players. This will further keep pve players from wanting to try pvp as they are less likely to grind out the points that are needed to get the resilience gear.
There are too many sweeping changes taking place, and this is definitely one that doesn't need to be in this game.
I'm not looking forward to the upcoming patch at all.
Nah, I'm pretty sure us PVE only crowd stay away from PVP stuff entirely. I seriously doubt it will change anything. The ones that are PVP ignorant now will respond the same way if this is in place than if it wasn't.
With the new gear its been stated numerous times that there are no more stat restrictions on items. There are only the sub stat restrictions as GC as posted.
We do not know what the new crafting/specialization is going to offer, but we do know that the best gear, the purples, will be obtained from doing lairs on elite. IIRC, I think adventure packs and comic series and lairs and such on normal are before that.
I don't know if its been mentioned what is going to happen to unity, nemesis and pvp gear. All in all, while communication has been sporadic in the attempt of enticing us, we've not been given enough to pull the whole picture together yet.
Which is sort of funny, since the clock is now ticking if they want to get this stuff done by the end of the month.
I think the theory is that they want to have 'PvP gear' that you can get from the PvP vendor, that is desirable for PvPers, but that PvEers won't feel that they have to farm ZA to get. This is understandable, but there's better ways to achieve that goal.
Why cant you have separate gear load-outs for pvp and pve on the same toon?
I do this already with perception gear (which i only use in pvp).
Ill try and answer these in order.
Bonus Armor is Bonus Defense, My brain just shorted out while I was writing it and said "That thing that makes you defensive!"
As to why I have separated the stats (Dodge/Avoid and MM/Per), This allows me to give you bigger bonuses to those stats without breaking things. This also introduces some element of choice. Before you wanted to be a Dodge tank, you just got both. Now you have to make the choice of which you want more. Do I want more to more often dodge attacks? Or would I like to dodge for much more when I do. Which will benefit me more? These kinds of choices help make gear feel more personal, and give it more of the "This is part of MY build" feeling.
As to the PVP stats, they are optional choices instead of a substat. So for example, if I am running a Defile Tapper build designed to spike, I can now have some degree of meaningful defense against people built into my gear. And conversely I could take armor penetration for other attacks, allowing more interesting builds. But to do that I give up the chance to use Dodge/Avoid/Bonus Defense and Crit Chance/Severity/Bonus Offense respectively. These stats will not be NECESSARY to pvp, but they will allow you to shore up different areas of a build where the other substats are just not desirable.
I hope that helps explain the thoughts behind some of these changes a little better!
Hopefully they won't rush it and mess it up.
They will be superior in some situations (some builds will benefit more from those stats just as a hazard of their build being well suited to it). They are *currently* not planned to work in PVE, but that topic is one of discussion here internally, and as I know more I will endeavor to relay that to you guys.
That doesn't really answer what the difference between Resiliency and Bonus Defense is. They sound like the same thing, except one only works in PvP? That doesn't make sense to me. Clarification would be greatly appreciated.
Bonus Defense just adds to your defense stat more than the gear normally would. Resilience is a separate (And slightly better performing in comparison to Armor) Resistance buff. But there are still things I have to work out (what things can penetrate Resilience, if it can be penetrated, etc) More information will be coming soon!