test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

Items Discussion Thread

1356

Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    To be honest the change is so massively different than what is on Live.. I'm going to have to hear your reasoning and explaination on most of othe changes to make sense of them.

    I can see that the gear is different.. and I can check effectiveness.. but it feels a bit like comparing apples to oranges.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    I'd honestly like to see less gear in general.

    Chances for gear to drop off mobs but for the most part make it a store item (White/Green/Some Blue for Globals and then some sort of commendation currency for Some Blues and Purples and themed to the zone from which the currency was attained) Devices and Blue+ for Mission rewards.

    Move all Power Replacers into the Crafting pools except really nice ones that could be upper level rewards.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Overall, I'm looking forward to item improvements and having the crafting system reworked so you can actually craft stuff people will want to buy because it's useful (currently only science really has very much at all with regards to useful items), and level 38 non-Elite/normal-grade blues that you can craft doesn't sell well on the market (current system on Live), which isn't very surprising.

    Thus far I see good things coming from these item revisions, especially if thjey will be applied to Nemesis and UNITY vendor stuff.



    With that said, there's something else to consider, all of you (but this is directed at Cryptic themselves):


    When considering making any major changes to items (and that's a good idea in fact), please, Cryptic, give serious consideration to showing respect to people who spent hundreds or even thousands of gold for some of the rare crafting recipes. Heck you can even remove every recipe if you want, but just make sure people get a fair value of their gold back.

    For example, a BoE recipe for a Rank 3 CTP (Crafted Travel Power) goes for about 500g (gold/globals), a sizable sum worth about two 760 CP (C-Store Point). And a Greater Servitor Serum recipe blueprint goes for about 1200g to 2000g, or trade for a Therakiel Sword or Mask of the Fool.

    I implore in all discussions about items to also bear in mind the in-game economy consequences. I know Cryptic has a history of getting people to like something when it first comes out because it's untested and often overpowered, and then nerfing the heck out of it (and I'm not talking just Champions), but I ask kindly that you give a bit more consideration into these changes, even if just out of ethical courtesy and good business relations that build customer loyalty. Please.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    I wouldn't expect crafting to stay in whatever form it is now, it's been said a few times that its getting a major revamp.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Any word on whether Power Replacers are (finally!) going to get overhauled, maybe even become more frequently useful?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Any word on whether Power Replacers are (finally!) going to get overhauled, maybe even become more frequently useful?
    From what I understand there are no plans to make new power replacers or fix the old ones.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    agentx5 wrote:
    When considering making any major changes to items (and that's a good idea in fact), please, Cryptic, give serious consideration to showing respect to people who spent hundreds or even thousands of gold for some of the rare crafting recipes. Heck you can even remove every recipe if you want, but just make sure people get a fair value of their gold back.

    I too don't see the logic in removing recipes that peeps already acquired like the resurrect devices, for example, which are all rather rare drops off of a rare mob. That would be just like them removing Mask of The Fool's unlock from an account's repertoire because it wasn't going to drop anymore.

    This could be ugly, especially if we have to wait around for whatever is supposed to replace it to be gotten to, if its bothered with at all. Especially if its some tragic boring grind to get it.

    Greater Servitor Serum recipes are in particular raaaaaare.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    IDK if this has been answered..

    But what will happen to the items we currently have (equipped or not). Will we log in one day when "EVERY item in the game" gets updated and have improved stats? added/more stats?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Any word on whether Power Replacers are (finally!) going to get overhauled, maybe even become more frequently useful?

    I am also very interested in what will become of Power Replacers.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    TROCH22 wrote:
    IDK if this has been answered..

    But what will happen to the items we currently have (equipped or not). Will we log in one day when "EVERY item in the game" gets updated and have improved stats? added/more stats?

    Your existing gear will remain unchanged. All the gear changes are happening to new items.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Your existing gear will remain unchanged. All the gear changes are happening to new items.

    I'm curious, will old style items still be available for obtainment? I mean, forgetting that the new items are clearly better.

    Just a bit of curiosity that's been tugging away at me. I never was a fan of things becoming un-obtainable.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    XaoGarrent wrote:
    I'm curious, will old style items still be available for obtainment? I mean, forgetting that the new items are clearly better.

    Just a bit of curiosity that's been tugging away at me. I never was a fan of things becoming un-obtainable.

    Cause if not then we gotta farm nao!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Also, are there any plans to revise the CDs on boss rewards? A 30 minute CD basically renders the reward useless....

    Specifics in this thread:
    http://forums.champions-online.com/showthread.php?t=130225&page=11
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    XaoGarrent wrote:
    I'm curious, will old style items still be available for obtainment? I mean, forgetting that the new items are clearly better.

    Just a bit of curiosity that's been tugging away at me. I never was a fan of things becoming un-obtainable.

    The old generic gear drops will be unavailable again. Special stuff I will go over on a case by case basis as I see it while doing the pass (dont post "I want X Item to remain!" since that will clutter the tread).
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    We want a Shrubbery.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    The old generic gear drops will be unavailable again. Special stuff I will go over on a case by case basis as I see it while doing the pass (dont post "I want X Item to remain!" since that will clutter the tread).

    so this means my purple crackers from Xmas will drop new purple gear?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    The old generic gear drops will be unavailable again. Special stuff I will go over on a case by case basis as I see it while doing the pass (dont post "I want X Item to remain!" since that will clutter the tread).

    Very fair point, I'll just start another thread for that stuff. I'll leave it up to you if you wanna poke your head in it or not.

    This is actually rather exciting to me because originally those sorts of items with side gimmicks and stuff weren't worth it often because you'd sacrifice all attributes on them and it just wasn't a fair tradeoff. Or the attributes on them were rather questionable.

    Now, since all items give attributes + a side effect. The click can be a side effect, so we can have our cake and eat it too!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Special stuff I will go over on a case by case basis as I see it while doing the pass (dont post "I want X Item to remain!" since that will clutter the tread).
    So unique boss drops might still exist? What about unique mission rewards (which are of random and usually low value, but can be amusing).
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    The-Mender wrote:
    so this means my purple crackers from Xmas will drop new purple gear?

    Most likely not, but they will drop gear that is roughly equivalent to *current* purples.
    ccelizic wrote:
    Very fair point, I'll just start another thread for that stuff. I'll leave it up to you if you wanna poke your head in it or not.

    This is actually rather exciting to me because originally those sorts of items with side gimmicks and stuff weren't worth it often because you'd sacrifice all attributes on them and it just wasn't a fair tradeoff. Or the attributes on them were rather questionable.

    Now, since all items give attributes + a side effect. The click can be a side effect, so we can have our cake and eat it too!

    New gear will not have clicky effects at this time. The scope of the overhaul already makes it difficult to get everything in.
    Pantagruel wrote:
    So unique boss drops might still exist? What about unique mission rewards (which are of random and usually low value, but can be amusing).

    Currently only the top grade lairs will be getting a look (Andrith, Mandra, TT, Nemcon) at first. Bosses here will likely have "Unique" drops insofar as they have powerful gear with rare and desirable stuff. They will probably not be clickies. Mission rewards are being evaluated on a case by case basis, but in general I want to move all the clickies to a new home for people who do want them.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    so even if its purple it will still be trash compared to blue stuff?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Currently only the top grade lairs will be getting a look (Andrith, Mandra, TT, Nemcon) at first. Bosses here will likely have "Unique" drops insofar as they have powerful gear with rare and desirable stuff. They will probably not be clickies. Mission rewards are being evaluated on a case by case basis, but in general I want to move all the clickies to a new home for people who do want them.

    A couple of questions since you mention lairs that are part of Unity's Most Wanted; hopefully I didn't just miss this.
    • Will the gear on the Unity vendors be replaced with new gear?
    • While you're tinkering with items, any chance you can tinker with the cost of Unity gear? I really think more people would do the dailies, NemCon, etc. if the point values weren't so inflated - running NemCon 30+ times for a single primary item is kind of... crazy.
    I'd really like an answer to these - I've logged on a couple of times now for 10 minutes and then just logged off because I honestly have a feeling of "why bother playing until the new gear goes in?" If it's the case that Unity tokens accrued now could be used to purchase new gear, it'd really give me a reason to play my current characters.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Things will operate on a series of new tokens. I havent decided what conversion rate (if any) unity and nem tokens will have to the new tokens.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Known Issues:
    • Most new items do not have finalized icon art

    Please make the icon art WAY more user friendly by making it very obvious by the icon (even at a glance) what slot it goes in (Offense Primary, Defensive Secondary, etc., etc.) and what the rarity is (without even mousing over it).
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Question, since stats being reworked, are the stat assignments to gear slots changing?

    I mean, like, since EGO is clearly an Offensive Stat, will it appear on Offensive Gear?

    Actually, would make an incredible amount of sence to me if STR and EGO were competing for the same gear slots...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Question, since stats being reworked, are the stat assignments to gear slots changing?

    I mean, like, since EGO is clearly an Offensive Stat, will it appear on Offensive Gear?

    Actually, would make an incredible amount of sence to me if STR and EGO were competing for the same gear slots...
    Any stat will be found on any piece of gear.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Things will operate on a series of new tokens. I havent decided what conversion rate (if any) unity and nem tokens will have to the new tokens.

    This might be crazy talk here, especially since I don't know the full story, but is there any reason why we are using yet another currency system instead of using global/local/national default currency for purchasing gear? That's usually how it works....
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Things will operate on a series of new tokens. I havent decided what conversion rate (if any) unity and nem tokens will have to the new tokens.

    I really really hope you don't make all my Nemesis Tokens worthless :o
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Things will operate on a series of new tokens. I havent decided what conversion rate (if any) unity and nem tokens will have to the new tokens.

    Thanks for the candid response - I do appreciate it. I really hope that the merits I've already earned (and are sitting on my characters because the Unity items currently don't compete with scaled blues) don't just end up going to waste forever.

    Personally, I love logging in my level 40's and doing things like daily missions, NemCon, etc. - but without any sort of "reward" for it, those activities fall by the way side. I really hope the new system your developing will make doing those things worthwhile. :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    ccelizic wrote:
    This might be crazy talk here, especially since I don't know the full story, but is there any reason why we are using yet another currency system instead of using global/local/national default currency for purchasing gear? That's usually how it works....

    When you say, "usually" I'm not sure I agree. Every MMO I've played, at least back to the first EQ had alternate currencies for "end game" sort of items. Tokens for doing dailies, points for doing instances (Lost Dungeons of Norrath), PVP tokens/badgets/whatever, etc. have been a very common part of MMO's for more than a decade.

    From what I've seen across games, the regular currency (globals, gold, platinum, credits, whatever) is mainly used for training skills, retconning/respeccing and to buy things from other players. Otherwise, items are purchased with a different set of tokens.

    I believe the design principle is to make sure you participated in X activity in order to get Y item - you can certainly make arguments that that system is flawed, but it is definitely the "usual" way things are done in many games.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    ccelizic wrote:
    This might be crazy talk here, especially since I don't know the full story, but is there any reason why we are using yet another currency system instead of using global/local/national default currency for purchasing gear? That's usually how it works....

    Usually how it works where?

    (DISCLAIMER: Genuine curiosity displayed in this post.)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Rom-SK wrote:
    When you say, "usually" I'm not sure I agree. Every MMO I've played, at least back to the first EQ had alternate currencies for "end game" sort of items. Tokens for doing dailies, points for doing instances (Lost Dungeons of Norrath), PVP tokens/badgets/whatever, etc. have been a very common part of MMO's for more than a decade.

    From what I've seen across games, the regular currency (globals, gold, platinum, credits, whatever) is mainly used for training skills, retconning/respeccing and to buy things from other players. Otherwise, items are purchased with a different set of tokens.

    I believe the design principle is to make sure you participated in X activity in order to get Y item - you can certainly make arguments that that system is flawed, but it is definitely the "usual" way things are done in many games.

    This is certainly part of it. It also helps me fine tune the economic value of any given item quickly, without massive ripple effects on other currencies.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Rom-SK wrote:
    When you say, "usually" I'm not sure I agree. Every MMO I've played, at least back to the first EQ had alternate currencies for "end game" sort of items. Tokens for doing dailies, points for doing instances (Lost Dungeons of Norrath), PVP tokens/badgets/whatever, etc. have been a very common part of MMO's for more than a decade.

    From what I've seen across games, the regular currency (globals, gold, platinum, credits, whatever) is mainly used for training skills, retconning/respeccing and to buy things from other players. Otherwise, items are purchased with a different set of tokens.

    I believe the design principle is to make sure you participated in X activity in order to get Y item - you can certainly make arguments that that system is flawed, but it is definitely the "usual" way things are done in many games.

    Thing is unless I'm misunderstanding, I thought this was for all gear, not just elite endgame stuff. Even then, MMOs usually sell mid-tier stuff as equipable gear so you can get yourself kitted to the baseline the developers were building around and then you have the whatever-the-heck-they-wanted-to-do-for-endgame stuff.

    Since I'm an old fogey with MMOs I'm used to seeing camped rare drops that people farm out instead of special currencies.... unless the MMO matures and players complain about inaccessability for stuff like that forcing the developers to eventually add in a second token system to address that. Much like CoH, originally it had no tokens, pure currency and you could buy all the enhancements you needed to get ++ on everything, tokens and stuff only came after they introduced set-gear.

    I guess what i'm saying is I'd like to be able to buy at least green tier outright, and do whatever shennanigans are necessary for higher tier.

    I mean if this is soley for really good stuff, ok nice. So far I've been seeing green stuff though which is mid-high tier
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    If an item has an established value in tokens, acclaim etc. Why not offer a buy-back program of some kind for older items that will be superseded entirely. Since you need to add vendors anyway...

    50-75% would be a good out-of-the-box reimbursement price, so they wouldn't be fungible exchanges, but some "speed up" towards the new gear could occur.

    Some people with limited time to play who may want to invest in new gear will feel alienated at having to re-rack all those tokens or acclaim to get their gear levels back to the new par.

    Thanks,

    +S
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    If an item has an established value in tokens, acclaim etc. Why not offer a buy-back program of some kind for older items that will be superseded entirely. Since you need to add vendors anyway...

    50-75% would be a good out-of-the-box reimbursement price, so they wouldn't be fungible exchanges, but some "speed up" towards the new gear could occur.

    Some people with limited time to play who may want to invest in new gear will feel alienated at having to re-rack all those tokens or acclaim to get their gear levels back to the new par.

    Thanks,

    +S

    Would support such idea a lot.


    Also, maybe any UNTIL gear has a chance to appear?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    If an item has an established value in tokens, acclaim etc. Why not offer a buy-back program of some kind for older items that will be superseded entirely. Since you need to add vendors anyway...

    50-75% would be a good out-of-the-box reimbursement price, so they wouldn't be fungible exchanges, but some "speed up" towards the new gear could occur.

    Some people with limited time to play who may want to invest in new gear will feel alienated at having to re-rack all those tokens or acclaim to get their gear levels back to the new par.

    Thanks,

    +S

    That's...not how this works. Think of this as an expansion for the game. (What Cryptic's doing to stats and gear right now is basically what EQ2 does every freakin' time they put out an expansion any more, so I guess I'm used to thinking like this.) Your awesome gear from the last expansion is getting replaced. You need to work through the new expansion's content to adjust to the new state of the game, progression, and high end content.

    That awesome stuff you had? You've already gotten your time with it. Now you get to shard it/vendor it and upgrade to new.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    That's...not how this works. Think of this as an expansion for the game. (What Cryptic's doing to stats and gear right now is basically what EQ2 does every freakin' time they put out an expansion any more, so I guess I'm used to thinking like this.) Your awesome gear from the last expansion is getting replaced. You need to work through the new expansion's content to adjust to the new state of the game, progression, and high end content.

    That awesome stuff you had? You've already gotten your time with it. Now you get to shard it/vendor it and upgrade to new.

    ^
    pretty much this.... this patch is basically an expansion... and in most MMO's expansions work this way. They are adding a new "tier" of gear, so... re-gearing its sort of normal, or at least for me it is.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    ^
    pretty much this.... this patch is basically an expansion... and in most MMO's expansions work this way. They are adding a new "tier" of gear, so... re-gearing its sort of normal, or at least for me it is.

    Do most MMO expansions not include a level increase or playable content ?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Ashen_X wrote:
    Do most MMO expansions not include a level increase or playable content ?

    Indeed... and you have a good point. We are having a massive revamp in here, we are getting fundamental changes to stats, itemization, tree specializations and the crafting system.... but definitely it would had been better if it was coupled as you mention, with a level increase and a new zone... instead we are getting a proper re-itemization of lairs and the current "end game content".

    The way I feel about this, its like them introducing a new "tier" (not per se, but its the closest I can think of) of gear. While your actual gear won't get deleted, it won't be as sexy as the new one.

    This inevitably will repeat when they raise the cap to level 45 and 50... and as I said it would had been preferable if this revamp was coupled with the level cap increase and new zone... but I guess that would had meant no content for 5-6 months knowing CO development cycles.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Ashen_X wrote:
    Do most MMO expansions not include a level increase or playable content ?

    Level cap increase I am guessing comes later with the new content, aka the new city, which I am also guessing the specialization trees are apart of the level cap increase.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Silverspar wrote:
    Level cap increase I am guessing comes later with the new content, aka the new city.

    I expect that you are correct.

    I was mainly responding to the idea put forward by others that we should think of the changes to stats as comparable to a game expansion in other MMOs. I dont think that the two are close enough for that comparison to hold up.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Ashen_X wrote:
    I expect that you are correct.

    I was mainly responding to the idea put forward by others that we should think of the changes to stats as comparable to a game expansion in other MMOs. I dont think that the two are close enough for that comparison to hold up.

    No, but these changes have been desperately needed for a long time to be blunt.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Ashen_X wrote:
    Do most MMO expansions not include a level increase or playable content ?

    This is exactly what i already wrote elsewhere. We get that EQ2 expansion nerf of our gear and have to
    refarm gear to get back where we were before, but only with the difference that we have to refarm it
    in the old content, while in EQ2 we get 4-5 new zones with 500 new quests to do that :o
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    no new content? -stares at the alerts-

    as far as the new gear goes, that's all the content you need. anything else from that will not happen anytime soon. just a glance of the UNTIL reports tells you a whole lot of what Cryptic has in mind for now.
    yes, things change, but as it is right now? alerts.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Please make the icon art WAY more user friendly by making it very obvious by the icon (even at a glance) what slot it goes in (Offense Primary, Defensive Secondary, etc., etc.) and what the rarity is (without even mousing over it).

    I was thinking a triangular (offense), square (defense), quarter-circle (utility) notch overlay in like the lower left corner might be a fairly intuitive indication for something like this, depending on what kind of overall plan there is for the new item graphics.

    These distinctions will remain, right?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    demalion wrote:
    I was thinking a triangular (offense), square (defense), quarter-circle (utility) notch overlay in like the lower left corner might be a fairly intuitive indication for something like this, depending on what kind of overall plan there is for the new item graphics.

    If they stick with the glove, jacket, helmet place holder they have on test now, it might still be rather simple to identify. Barring that, they already have icons for those slots, you can see them on your character stat window. It's a shield for defense, a star for offense and a plus for utility.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Indeed... and you have a good point. We are having a massive revamp in here, we are getting fundamental changes to stats, itemization, tree specializations and the crafting system.... but definitely it would had been better if it was coupled as you mention, with a level increase and a new zone... instead we are getting a proper re-itemization of lairs and the current "end game content".

    The way I feel about this, its like them introducing a new "tier" (not per se, but its the closest I can think of) of gear. While your actual gear won't get deleted, it won't be as sexy as the new one.

    This inevitably will repeat when they raise the cap to level 45 and 50... and as I said it would had been preferable if this revamp was coupled with the level cap increase and new zone... but I guess that would had meant no content for 5-6 months knowing CO development cycles.

    on the comment of your gear not being as good as the new gear...have you seen the new defense gear? Trollface.jpg
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    on the comment of your gear not being as good as the new gear...have you seen the new defense gear? Trollface.jpg

    Yes, and the green quality is better still than old purple and blue :p
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Silverspar wrote:
    Yes, and the green quality is better still than old purple and blue :p

    Not really, the new green gear seperated dodge/avoid, thats an auto lose
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Item specializations.. can someone please name them all?

    I know +Crit Severety and +Offense are in.. what else?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    power cost discount
    power recharge speed
    control resistance
    heal bonus
    crit strike
    crit severity
    health bonus
    dodge
    avoid


    think that's all of them.
Sign In or Register to comment.