What is with human and inhuman rights in the Champions Universe?
Metahumans including werewolves and mutans probably are legally considered humans, but what about other subcjects?
Sentient undead (including vampires), extraplanar creatures (including demons, angels), spirits, inhuman species of Earth (Lemurians, for example) - do they have righs in human lands? Or hunting vampires or angels is an open game - creatures can be maimed, killed, destroyed simply because they exist, because they aren't protected by law (even if they are harmless, because not every sentient undead must have intentions for killing humans)?
Same question about independent and sentient machines.
If undead or mechanical villain is captured - he is jailed, or simply destroyed?
Same about aliens - do Qularr or Gadroon soldiers have any combatant rights? Or they can be treated as victor see fit?
Question 2:
What is more advanced - Xendron Network or Mechanon? Both are mechanoid factions. Also, do they could cooperate, or rather will end fighting each other?
What is with human and inhuman rights in the Champions Universe?
Metahumans including werewolves and mutans probably are legally considered humans, but what about other subcjects?
Sentient undead (including vampires), extraplanar creatures (including demons, angels), spirits, inhuman species of Earth (Lemurians, for example) - do they have righs in human lands? Or hunting vampires or angels is an open game - creatures can be maimed, killed, destroyed simply because they exist, because they aren't protected by law (even if they are harmless, because not every sentient undead must have intentions for killing humans)?
Same question about independent and sentient machines.
If undead or mechanical villain is captured - he is jailed, or simply destroyed?
Same about aliens - do Qularr or Gadroon soldiers have any combatant rights? Or they can be treated as victor see fit?
Question 2:
What is more advanced - Xendron Network or Mechanon? Both are mechanoid factions. Also, do they could cooperate, or rather will end fighting each other?
The first question is hard, due to the number of sub-questions and potential situations that might be related to it. The Stronghold sourcebook has an entire chapter regarding Superhuman laws and similar phenomenon, but I do not possess it. Champions Universe (6th edition, at least) does have this specific paragraph:
"A number of Supreme Court rulings have stated that the Fourteenth Amendments guarantees of due process and equal protection do not apply to sentient aliens, extradimensional entities, artificial intelligences, and the undead, because they are not persons under the law. On the other hand, they do apply to mutants, mutates, clones, and genetic constructs based on human stock. Congress has, however, passed laws granting at least limited rights to all independent, freewilled,sentient entities in American territory."(Champions Universe p.51)
I hope this cleared the question, or at least, much of it. These laws can, of course, vary from nation to nation.
The second question is more hypothetical, since no certain comparison between their technology has been made. I could see Mechanon allying himself with the X'endron Network, such pact could convert them into truly powerful threats, for the Earth and beyond. Still, Mechanon sometimes expresses desire not to destroy organics but merely, to replace them, or some thought in that line, which could, perhaps, lead to a potential conflict. Again, purely hypothetical. Hope I helped.
The first question is hard, due to the number of sub-questions and potential situations that might be related to it. The Stronghold sourcebook has an entire chapter regarding Superhuman laws and similar phenomenon, but I do not possess it. Champions Universe (6th edition, at least) does have this specific paragraph:
"A number of Supreme Court rulings have stated that the Fourteenth Amendments guarantees of due process and equal protection do not apply to sentient aliens, extradimensional entities, artificial intelligences, and the undead, because they are not persons under the law. On the other hand, they do apply to mutants, mutates, clones, and genetic constructs based on human stock. Congress has, however, passed laws granting at least limited rights to all independent, freewilled,sentient entities in American territory."(Champions Universe p.51)
Hey, hey, hey! I shouldn't just have skimmed through the book then! That means hunting vampires, undead and demons is like hunting animals? Good to know, hehe... That means the merc company of my main can shrink down its law department a bit.
I see, to be honest though, all those designs still feel better to me than Defender's current look (though I will admit the first one is silly but, it is that old school silly that you can't help but love.)
I've always been a fan of the New Millennium Defender's Armor. Heresy I know. But it's still better looking than the Auqabats getup he has now.
Unfortunately, that's how much I can get, if it's of any use. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong and/or give further instruction on the theme. Hope I helped.
Lots to think about, to be sure, thanks for the attempted answer! Good to know for potential plots.
I liked the original Defender armor from 5th Edition. But I have to admit, the MMO version is more distinctive. And they've improved it some since the game first came out. Originally his MMO armor had no direct connection between his helmet and the rest of his armor! (Heck - look directly above at the banner up top on this very forum!)
Not only an exposed chin, but an exposed NECK. Some players that I know started referring to him as "pop-top". >.>;;
Originally he also had open eye-holes. What was the point of that helmet again?
Since then they've made the design look more and more like actual armor rather than a set of tights. (He's still got an exposed Batman style chin. But if I can forgive Bat's for that, I can extend Defender the same suspension of disbelief.) Generally speaking I like it a lot.
Witchcraft - I disliked her original look in the MMO (with the ponytail), but over the last year or so, they've updated her and she looks very much like her book version. Same with Sapphire. Both of them had their proportion sliders tweaked as well, and now they look very nice.
Kinetik originally had a very different, asymmetrical costume design in the books. Still had a lightning bolt theme to it in red, black and white, so the new costume wasn't that much of a stretch, really. (Curiously though - Kinetic's original asymmetric lightning bolt design for the tights is actually something you can do in-game even now!)
I was wondering about something, simply because it ties in within a RP plot for my online character, and was kind of hoping you could clear it up.
In the P&P DEMON book, it says that the Basilisk Orb was lost by some heroes tossing it into a volcano in Micronesia. Then I came across the Eclipse (a la The Crowns of Krim) mission on the wiki, where it says that he's looking for the Orb in Canada.
Admittedly, I haven't gone through the Eclipse mission in Canada yet (I only came across it on the wiki, like I said), but was wondering which is considered canon? Or, which is also possible, am I simply missing a re-appearance of the Orb which caused it to be moved from the one locale to the other?
If you could clear this up for me, I would really appreciate it. Many thanks in advance.
I was wondering about something, simply because it ties in within a RP plot for my online character, and was kind of hoping you could clear it up.
In the P&P DEMON book, it says that the Basilisk Orb was lost by some heroes tossing it into a volcano in Micronesia. Then I came across the Eclipse (a la The Crowns of Krim) mission on the wiki, where it says that he's looking for the Orb in Canada.
Admittedly, I haven't gone through the Eclipse mission in Canada yet (I only came across it on the wiki, like I said), but was wondering which is considered canon? Or, which is also possible, am I simply missing a re-appearance of the Orb which caused it to be moved from the one locale to the other?
If you could clear this up for me, I would really appreciate it. Many thanks in advance.
I'd assume the version that is mentioned in-game would be the proper version now. However I'm pretty sure there was a hint that there might be two different orbs. I remember reading that the Orb described in DEMON: Servants Of Darkness, had a corrupting influence associated with it. Whereas the Basilisk Orb described in Tuala Morn didn't. Saying that, the Celtic-themed Tuala Morn book is a Fantasy Hero setting and isn't officially linked to the Champions Universe.
I was wondering about something, simply because it ties in within a RP plot for my online character, and was kind of hoping you could clear it up.
In the P&P DEMON book, it says that the Basilisk Orb was lost by some heroes tossing it into a volcano in Micronesia. Then I came across the Eclipse (a la The Crowns of Krim) mission on the wiki, where it says that he's looking for the Orb in Canada.
Admittedly, I haven't gone through the Eclipse mission in Canada yet (I only came across it on the wiki, like I said), but was wondering which is considered canon? Or, which is also possible, am I simply missing a re-appearance of the Orb which caused it to be moved from the one locale to the other?
If you could clear this up for me, I would really appreciate it. Many thanks in advance.
I'd assume the version that is mentioned in-game would be the proper version now. However I'm pretty sure there was a hint that there might be two different orbs. I remember reading that the Orb described in DEMON: Servants Of Darkness, had a corrupting influence associated with it. Whereas the Basilisk Orb described in Tuala Morn didn't. Saying that, the Celtic-themed Tuala Morn book is a Fantasy Hero setting and isn't officially linked to the Champions Universe.
The PnP continuity does not match the in-game version exactly, as Cryptic has the freedom to manipulate the IP in just about every way. Before the Champions IP was purchased however, all Hero Games titles were connected (eg. there was a Turakian Age setting for Fantasy Hero) but Cryptic does not own rights for those IPs. The answer may be contained here. It is a lore item found on that particular mission and may answer your questions.
Sorry if this was asked before but, In the Champions Universe are there characters like Mr Mxyzptlk. You know, demented/comedic reality shifting entities ??
Funnily enough, I did an RP event with Incubus about a week ago, ol' Thundrax there was present. It was amazing. The moon turned into a disco ball and Incubus raced Thundrax, while Thundrax was turned into a big blue pony, down the Great Wall of China.
Funnily enough, I did an RP event with Incubus about a week ago, ol' Thundrax there was present. It was amazing. The moon turned into a disco ball and Incubus raced Thundrax, while Thundrax was turned into a big blue pony, down the Great Wall of China.
I know this Question might be silly .... and might have been answered already ...
but does Albert Zerstoiten like cats ? And if so does he keep one as pet, or maybe another cute animal ?
I know this Question might be silly .... and might have been answered already ...
but does Albert Zerstoiten like cats ? And if so does he keep one as pet, or maybe another cute animal ?
Well it is a fun question, but I believe it's not answered in the sourcebooks. IIRC He isn't mentioned to keep any pets but, this in my understanding of events, he's not an animal hater. He may see animals simply as inferior beings that pose no threat whatsoever to his plans so he rarely if ever cares for them. Still, although he may not have a pet, one of his former lackeys might. Hope I helped, but the question was/is difficult. (Again if anyone knows more, just post.)
Now I know Primus has taken something of a secondary role in the CO universe [to be frank in the MMO they're kind of a whipping boy] but I'd like a lore question clarified..
When was Primus really founded?
I know the latest editions of Champions Universe say it was 1986
However Classic organizations [and of course the book it pulls from] and the Primus book by Shelley Chrystal Mactyre indicate a much earlier founding that makes a good deal more sense.
If this is cannon [and it is, given the latest book being more 'correct'] Why did it get pushed forward and is this also true for the CO universe?
Here we are now going to the West Side
Weapons in hand as we go for a ride
Some may come and some may stay
Watching out for a sunny day
Where there's love and darkness and my sidearm
In game as @forgemccain
I have a question regarding the knowledge that the Imaginal Realms are known to be imaginal. Who would know that, and how prevalent would that knowledge be? Would anyone studying the Astral Plane know?
I have a question regarding the knowledge that the Imaginal Realms are known to be imaginal. Who would know that, and how prevalent would that knowledge be? Would anyone studying the Astral Plane know?
Dean's answer:
Best guide is probably what level of the Mystic World a character occupies. People in the Pop Occult World don't know the Imaginal Worlds really exist: They may believe in Heaven, Hell, an Astral Plane, etc., but they don't know how they actually work or how they fit together.
People in the serious, hard-core Mystic World might know about the Imaginal Realms and how humanity created them if they have high ratings in an appropriate KS such as Metaphysics or Occult Lore, or an 11- rating in a KS such as Other Realms of Existence.
People in the Magic World, such as super-mages, routinely know about the Imaginal Realms if they have any sort of KS about spirits, other planes, etc. With a KS: Inner Planes, they know in detail how the Imaginal Realms grew from mortal thought, and continue to grow.
(Story hook: Somebody is trying to create a myth and spread belief in it as a way to build a new province in an Imaginal Realm: a new Hell, a new district in Babylon, or the like.)
People in the Supernatural World vary. Just because you're a ghost, elf or vampire doesn't mean you know a lot of arcane lore outside your personal experience. Ask yourself what level of the Mystic World they'd be on if they were mortal. Also, many of the potent and knowledgeable entities in the Parterres might know in an abstract sense that they exist because humans made them up, but they don't like to think about it or insist that it's "just a theory" without any real evidence to back it up.
I'm curious. Where would heroes have to go to get educated in Champion lore? I'm already aware of Westside High, Ravenswood Academy and MCU. But that's not what I'm after, I'm after some information on earlier schooling. Y'know, elementary schools and middle schools. Can anybody offer me some information on that? It'd be appreciated. I'll reference you on my PDB page too.
That would kind of depend on what you mean by "Champions lore." It sounds like you're concerned with information that the fictional "people" of Champions Earth might have access to. If you're talking about the history of superhumans -- prominent individuals and groups, major events they were involved in, and so on -- Steve Long has posted his opinion that such things would be part of the history curriculum of most schools, to the same degree and in the same detail as historical people and events are covered in the real world.
If you're talking about "deeper" lore -- the current activities of major heroes, villains, or organizations; "lost" or "hidden" civilizations; alien threats beyond the Earth; the true nature of the occult Multiverse; and the like -- such details are often classified by the government, or known only to a few with special connections to the background in questioin.
The bird people of Tharr, do they dabble in magic and if they do are certain magics frowned apon?
By the PnP lore, the Birdpeople have no significant expertise in magic. Their technology was also pre-industrial, at least prior to first official contact with the human world in the 1960s.
I was wondering are there any kingdoms/civilizations that left mysteriously like the mayans in the champions universe?
If you mean, a civilization which was historically known to exist and then just seemed to disappear en masse... not exactly. There are hidden remnants of civilizations believed by the wider world to be extinct. For example, a vestige of the Pre-Columbian Incas endures in what's called the Valley of Night, in the jungles of Colombia bordering Peru.
(BTW contemporary science has come to much more mundane conclusions as to what happened to the Mayas.)
Comments
Metahumans including werewolves and mutans probably are legally considered humans, but what about other subcjects?
Sentient undead (including vampires), extraplanar creatures (including demons, angels), spirits, inhuman species of Earth (Lemurians, for example) - do they have righs in human lands? Or hunting vampires or angels is an open game - creatures can be maimed, killed, destroyed simply because they exist, because they aren't protected by law (even if they are harmless, because not every sentient undead must have intentions for killing humans)?
Same question about independent and sentient machines.
If undead or mechanical villain is captured - he is jailed, or simply destroyed?
Same about aliens - do Qularr or Gadroon soldiers have any combatant rights? Or they can be treated as victor see fit?
"A number of Supreme Court rulings have stated that the Fourteenth Amendments guarantees of due process and equal protection do not apply to sentient aliens, extradimensional entities, artificial intelligences, and the undead, because they are not persons under the law. On the other hand, they do apply to mutants, mutates, clones, and genetic constructs based on human stock. Congress has, however, passed laws granting at least limited rights to all independent, freewilled,sentient entities in American territory."(Champions Universe p.51)
I hope this cleared the question, or at least, much of it. These laws can, of course, vary from nation to nation.
The second question is more hypothetical, since no certain comparison between their technology has been made. I could see Mechanon allying himself with the X'endron Network, such pact could convert them into truly powerful threats, for the Earth and beyond. Still, Mechanon sometimes expresses desire not to destroy organics but merely, to replace them, or some thought in that line, which could, perhaps, lead to a potential conflict. Again, purely hypothetical. Hope I helped.
Hey, hey, hey! I shouldn't just have skimmed through the book then! That means hunting vampires, undead and demons is like hunting animals? Good to know, hehe... That means the merc company of my main can shrink down its law department a bit.
I've always been a fan of the New Millennium Defender's Armor. Heresy I know. But it's still better looking than the Auqabats getup he has now.
Lots to think about, to be sure, thanks for the attempted answer! Good to know for potential plots.
http://www.warehouse23.com/img/full/DOJHER207.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-3p96H7oxOVE/T2oCHOGnPZI/AAAAAAAAA6U/X3h4Kiy1ljk/s1600/Hero+-+Champions+Universe.jpg
https://www.herogames.com/get/champions1152x864.jpg
It had a bit more "techy" look and was more in line with the other PA characters like Viper X or Steel Commando.
Also, i like previous Witchcraft look more than curren one.
Not only an exposed chin, but an exposed NECK. Some players that I know started referring to him as "pop-top". >.>;;
Originally he also had open eye-holes. What was the point of that helmet again?
Since then they've made the design look more and more like actual armor rather than a set of tights. (He's still got an exposed Batman style chin. But if I can forgive Bat's for that, I can extend Defender the same suspension of disbelief.) Generally speaking I like it a lot.
Witchcraft - I disliked her original look in the MMO (with the ponytail), but over the last year or so, they've updated her and she looks very much like her book version. Same with Sapphire. Both of them had their proportion sliders tweaked as well, and now they look very nice.
Kinetik originally had a very different, asymmetrical costume design in the books. Still had a lightning bolt theme to it in red, black and white, so the new costume wasn't that much of a stretch, really. (Curiously though - Kinetic's original asymmetric lightning bolt design for the tights is actually something you can do in-game even now!)
I was wondering about something, simply because it ties in within a RP plot for my online character, and was kind of hoping you could clear it up.
In the P&P DEMON book, it says that the Basilisk Orb was lost by some heroes tossing it into a volcano in Micronesia. Then I came across the Eclipse (a la The Crowns of Krim) mission on the wiki, where it says that he's looking for the Orb in Canada.
Admittedly, I haven't gone through the Eclipse mission in Canada yet (I only came across it on the wiki, like I said), but was wondering which is considered canon? Or, which is also possible, am I simply missing a re-appearance of the Orb which caused it to be moved from the one locale to the other?
If you could clear this up for me, I would really appreciate it. Many thanks in advance.
I'd assume the version that is mentioned in-game would be the proper version now. However I'm pretty sure there was a hint that there might be two different orbs. I remember reading that the Orb described in DEMON: Servants Of Darkness, had a corrupting influence associated with it. Whereas the Basilisk Orb described in Tuala Morn didn't. Saying that, the Celtic-themed Tuala Morn book is a Fantasy Hero setting and isn't officially linked to the Champions Universe.
Also: glad to see this thread remains active.
Yeah, that answers my question perfectly!
Yes. Sugarlump rocked the Great Wall, baby!
but does Albert Zerstoiten like cats ? And if so does he keep one as pet, or maybe another cute animal ?
i was once Nisshoku-san
My characters[SIGPIC]http://co-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=91878665000&dateline=1359356700[/SIGPIC]
When was Primus really founded?
I know the latest editions of Champions Universe say it was 1986
However Classic organizations [and of course the book it pulls from] and the Primus book by Shelley Chrystal Mactyre indicate a much earlier founding that makes a good deal more sense.
If this is cannon [and it is, given the latest book being more 'correct'] Why did it get pushed forward and is this also true for the CO universe?
Here we are now going to the West Side
Weapons in hand as we go for a ride
Some may come and some may stay
Watching out for a sunny day
Where there's love and darkness and my sidearm
In game as @forgemccain
Dean's answer:
Best guide is probably what level of the Mystic World a character occupies. People in the Pop Occult World don't know the Imaginal Worlds really exist: They may believe in Heaven, Hell, an Astral Plane, etc., but they don't know how they actually work or how they fit together.
People in the serious, hard-core Mystic World might know about the Imaginal Realms and how humanity created them if they have high ratings in an appropriate KS such as Metaphysics or Occult Lore, or an 11- rating in a KS such as Other Realms of Existence.
People in the Magic World, such as super-mages, routinely know about the Imaginal Realms if they have any sort of KS about spirits, other planes, etc. With a KS: Inner Planes, they know in detail how the Imaginal Realms grew from mortal thought, and continue to grow.
(Story hook: Somebody is trying to create a myth and spread belief in it as a way to build a new province in an Imaginal Realm: a new Hell, a new district in Babylon, or the like.)
People in the Supernatural World vary. Just because you're a ghost, elf or vampire doesn't mean you know a lot of arcane lore outside your personal experience. Ask yourself what level of the Mystic World they'd be on if they were mortal. Also, many of the potent and knowledgeable entities in the Parterres might know in an abstract sense that they exist because humans made them up, but they don't like to think about it or insist that it's "just a theory" without any real evidence to back it up.
I'm curious. Where would heroes have to go to get educated in Champion lore? I'm already aware of Westside High, Ravenswood Academy and MCU. But that's not what I'm after, I'm after some information on earlier schooling. Y'know, elementary schools and middle schools. Can anybody offer me some information on that? It'd be appreciated. I'll reference you on my PDB page too.
Thanks
Marcus~
If you're talking about "deeper" lore -- the current activities of major heroes, villains, or organizations; "lost" or "hidden" civilizations; alien threats beyond the Earth; the true nature of the occult Multiverse; and the like -- such details are often classified by the government, or known only to a few with special connections to the background in questioin.
For the most part, yes, they are. Shadow Destroyer was able to access and utilize some of Doc D's network and devices, but far from all of them.
By the PnP lore, the Birdpeople have no significant expertise in magic. Their technology was also pre-industrial, at least prior to first official contact with the human world in the 1960s.
If you mean, a civilization which was historically known to exist and then just seemed to disappear en masse... not exactly. There are hidden remnants of civilizations believed by the wider world to be extinct. For example, a vestige of the Pre-Columbian Incas endures in what's called the Valley of Night, in the jungles of Colombia bordering Peru.
(BTW contemporary science has come to much more mundane conclusions as to what happened to the Mayas.)
=^ _ ^= Kitty Lives!