To be honest first off, i've been wanting to post in here for a good while but was slightly afraid to do so because of not knowing all the lore that I would like to know more about, but you know what, that is a silly reason I got a few questions to ask .
1. Are there any photos (well pics, but lets be official here!0 of Dark Seraph and the other Crowns of Kirm (or is it Krim? I don't see it too often to know the spelling off hand) Because I am curious what each member looks like.
2. While I find Defender in Champions Online to be downright sad and silly (I blame the tutorial and his usual look except the time I saw him in aftershock 6, when he had the faceplate on that was the only true moment to me that he even looked remotely cool int his game ) What have been some of his greatest solo victories in the pnp/lore and how many designs have there been of him not including the mmo? (pics would be nice, I ask because i'm a costume fanatic per say.)
3. Besides the really big named villains like Shadow Destroyer, Dr. Destroyer, Teilios (close?), Viper, and a few others, who are other big bads? (Not as well known as say Mech or Dr. D, but still pretty big and a threat.)
4. How often do elementals or supernatural beings like angels and the like become super heroes? Become villains?
and finally for now,
5. Who is the most dangerous super hero solely because of their powers? Not because they use them destructively but are outright dangerous because of ether a lack of control or they just too powerful for the area they operate in?
To be honest first off, i've been wanting to post in here for a good while but was slightly afraid to do so because of not knowing all the lore that I would like to know more about, but you know what, that is a silly reason I got a few questions to ask .
Hey, if you had to already know the lore to post, this thread would be pretty redundant. Ask away!
1. Are there any photos (well pics, but lets be official here!0 of Dark Seraph and the other Crowns of Kirm (or is it Krim? I don't see it too often to know the spelling off hand) Because I am curious what each member looks like.
Three of the Crowns of Krim have appeared in Champions Online, and have illustrations on the official CO Wiki:
Dark Seraph is one of the oldest villains in the Champions IP, dating back to the early 1980s, before there was even a "Crowns of Krim", so he's had multiple illos over the years which have varied somewhat in appearance, although the basic concept remains consistent. To a lesser extent this is also true of the other Crowns.
2. While I find Defender in Champions Online to be downright sad and silly (I blame the tutorial and his usual look except the time I saw him in aftershock 6, when he had the faceplate on that was the only true moment to me that he even looked remotely cool int his game ) What have been some of his greatest solo victories in the pnp/lore and how many designs have there been of him not including the mmo? (pics would be nice, I ask because i'm a costume fanatic per say.)
Let me refer you to this thread elsewhere on this forum: http://forums.champions-online.com/showthread.php?t=141120 . There have been three other visual renditions of Defender for Champions that I can recall, but I haven't the time to chase them down now. Let me get back to you.
3. Besides the really big named villains like Shadow Destroyer, Dr. Destroyer, Teilios (close?), Viper, and a few others, who are other big bads? (Not as well known as say Mech or Dr. D, but still pretty big and a threat.)
Among the "master villains" (those with great power, followers, and/or grand schemes), the biggest names include Gravitar (world's most powerful mutant), Istvatha V'han (multi-dimensional conqueror), Kigatilik (mighty demon of winter night from the North), Menton (world's most powerful psionic), Franklin Stone (the CU's Lex Luthor), Takofanes (ancient undead sorceror of vast power), Tyrannon the Conqueror (magic other-dimensional tyrant), the Warlord (high-tech arms dealer and warmonger), and Dr. Yin Wu (immortal Chinese sorceror).
Solo villains who also possess enough power to be a major threat include Eclipsar (insane goddess of darkness), Firewing (alien gladiator obsessed with battle), Geothermal (genocidal eco-terrorist), Li Chun the Destroyer (demon-possessed Taoist mystic), Taipan (world's deadliest super-assassin), and Valak the World-Ravager (murderous alien warrior).
The most dangerous villain teams include the aforementioned Crowns of Krim, Eurostar (European political terrorists), the Devil's Advocates (mystic villains who want to end the dominance of technology), PSI (cabal of malevolent psionicists), and the Ultimates (diverse and experienced villains for hire). Besides VIPER, the most dangerous/influential organizations are DEMON (worldwide apocalyptic cult), ARGENT (pervasive high-tech pseudo-corporation), the Circle of the Scarlet Moon (subversive occult conspiracy with worldwide influence), and the Cult of the Red Banner (worshippers of The Dragon, ultimate source of evil on Earth).
Note that this list is only a representative sample, a mere fraction of what's in the setting.
4. How often do elementals or supernatural beings like angels and the like become super heroes? Become villains?
Pretty often, actually. All the gods, demons, races, and creatures of human myth, folklore, and religion are "real" in a way, created and sustained by human imagination and belief. Most of them exist in other dimensions called "Imaginal Realms," but some pass to Earth from time to time, or take up residence here. Quite a few official heroes and villains of the setting are such beings, or were empowered by them.
and finally for now,
5. Who is the most dangerous super hero solely because of their powers? Not because they use them destructively but are outright dangerous because of ether a lack of control or they just too powerful for the area they operate in?
Thanks in advance!
That's an interesting question. Offhand I can't recall any official hero described in detail in a PnP book whose powers are that difficult to control -- at least, none who are still active. That tends to be part of some official villain's origin. Let me poke around a bit and see if I can turn one up.
EDIT: I remembered what I think is a good candidate, the powerful mystic called Josiah Brimstone. Brimstone had his soul forcibly exchanged with that of a demon by the great Demon Lord Belial. He has to maintain rigid self-control, or the demon will fully possess his body and wreak havoc, until Brimstone can re-assert his control.
Josiah Brimstone attempts to "do the right thing," but the influence of the demon's soul has tainted his personality. Even with the best of intentions he comes across as arrogant and selfish, and occasionally his evil inclinations take over completely.
Dragons have existed on Earth in past eras, both dragons resembling traditional Western conceptions, and those from other traditions such as the Oriental. As magical creatures they require a certain amount of "ambient magic" on Earth to sustain them, but magic on Earth had been on the wane for many centuries before the modern Age of Superheroes began in 1938. Presumably during that time all dragons withdrew to the astral dimension of Faerie, the abode of all the gods, creatures, and races from human myth and folklore.
Since 1938 magic on Earth has been high enough for supernatural beings to visit it once more. As for dragons specifically, the only one mentioned as interacting with the modern world is Brangomar, the Shadow Queen, tyrant of a region of Faerie called the Shadow Realm, who has fought Earthly superheroes several times. Brangomar is a powerful sorceress as well as a mighty dragon. She spends most of her time in the form of a beautiful human-seeming woman, the better to deal with her subjects and enjoy the comforts of her castle. Few people even know she's actually a dragon.
You're welcome, Kurobasa. While I'm here, let me throw you a few more illustrations.
Here is the Champions team pre-Cryptic, featuring Defender's armor with a slightly different color scheme from the cover linked to in that other thread: https://www.herogames.com/get/champions1152x864.jpg
I see, to be honest though, all those designs still feel better to me than Defender's current look (though I will admit the first one is silly but, it is that old school silly that you can't help but love.)
I'm going for another turn in the 'Most dangerous' discussion.
Masquerade.
In her/his/it's bio it's even stated that she (the name sounds feminine, so I'll go with she) is quite possibly the most dangerous villain on the planet. While she's not really much of a threat in a fight, she is the ultimate shapeshifter, who can copy other beings right down to the cellular level (she's not able to imitate superpowers though). Thus she's able to infiltrate almost everything. She feels completely above any other being and is quite amoral. She usually works as a spy or assassin for hire.
I'm going for another turn in the 'Most dangerous' discussion.
Masquerade.
In her/his/it's bio it's even stated that she (the name sounds feminine, so I'll go with she) is quite possibly the most dangerous villain on the planet. While she's not really much of a threat in a fight, she is the ultimate shapeshifter, who can copy other beings right down to the cellular level (she's not able to imitate superpowers though). Thus she's able to infiltrate almost everything. She feels completely above any other being and is quite amoral. She usually works as a spy or assassin for hire.
A good choice, although "most dangerous" depends on how you define the term. Many organizations are terrified of Masquerade infiltrating them; but are as if not more frightened of Menton. His enormous mental powers may already have him practically ruling at least part of the world, with no one even being aware of it.
Before he was rendered comatose and put into Stronghold, the cyberkinetic hacker Cybermind was the bogeyman to every person and group with a computer network or sensitive databases. No system was safe from his super-hacking. If he had more focus he would be a major world security threat.
I can't remember if my parents bought me my first 4th edition Champions rulebook in 5th or 6th grade, but I am much older now and still have at least a half dozen of the official books and 3 of the old "Adventurers Club" fanzines. The comic book store that I grew up with never carried 5th or 6th edition that I know of, so 4th edition lore was "gospel" as far as I knew. Now, I get so confused when I try to reconcile 4th edition lore with current CO lore. * I can't tell you just how off I was playing Resistance and thinking I was up against a brainwashed protege of Destroyer instead of his alternate dimension variant.
What are the biggest lore differences between the two I should watch out for? Specifically, did the 4th edition Champions like Seeker, Jaguar, and Solitare exist in the current world, and were they ever members of the Champions?
Also, probably not a lore questions per se, but is it kosher for me to create player characters in-game based on characters from old 4th edition books, or does that violate some rule regarding the IP?
What are the biggest lore differences between the two I should watch out for? Specifically, did the 4th edition Champions like Seeker, Jaguar, and Solitare exist in the current world, and were they ever members of the Champions?
The differences between the 4E and 5E/ 6E CU are numerous, but range from the huge to the subtle. The history of the setting is different in many small and a few big ways, but very many of the characters and organizations from older editions have been carried forward to the new continuity, albeit often recast to a greater or lesser degree.
As for your specific question, as far as has been revealed most of the earlier Champions don't exist, and definitely were never members of the team. Seeker is supposed to have been a fictional character, replacing Nighthawk in the licensed Champions comic-book because Nighthawk wouldn't give permission to use his likeness. Defender's history, however, is almost identical to his 4E incarnation.
My recommendation to you would be to pick up the 6E version of the PnP game book Champions Universe, which provides an overview of the entire setting, past and present. That would catch you up on most of the major differences.
Also, probably not a lore questions per se, but is it kosher for me to create player characters in-game based on characters from old 4th edition books, or does that violate some rule regarding the IP?
Couldn't tell you for certain. It might be worth contacting one of the Cryptic Studios reps for an official position. In some cases they might have no plans for particular characters, so wouldn't object to your using them.
Just keep in mind that some of the characters appearing in earlier Champions books were licensed for use by their creators, thus weren't included in the IP bought by DOJ and then Cryptic.
How has magic changed from fourht ed to 6th? I know in fourth ed, there are different types of magic (Natural,high, Ritual, etc) Is this still the case or have things shifted? Like, what's the difference between a wizard you casts magic with spell components and Doctor Strange, who doesn't afraid of anything when it comes to magic.
Magic generally speaking hasn't really changed much since Fourth Edition in published Hero System books. It's still based on the Powers/ Advantages/ Limitations construction system for individual spells. Some of the names and/or categories of magic style have changed, builds may be different in detail, and of course the Powers and their Modifiers have in a number of cases changed from edition to edition.
The main distinction in magic, as has been the case since Fourth, is between "heroic" and "superheroic" magic. The spells wielded by "super-mages" such as Doctor Strange have few if any Limitations representing such things as material components (Foci), rituals involving Gestures, Incantantions, Concentration, Extra Time, etc. These are much more common in heroic-level games such as most of the fantasy genre. Super-magic, which current Champions books usually calls "thaumaturgy," reflects what you usually see wizards in comics wielding -- fast, easy, and combat-effective.
Magic generally speaking hasn't really changed much since Fourth Edition in published Hero System books. It's still based on the Powers/ Advantages/ Limitations construction system for individual spells. Some of the names and/or categories of magic style have changed, builds may be different in detail, and of course the Powers and their Modifiers have in a number of cases changed from edition to edition.
The main distinction in magic, as has been the case since Fourth, is between "heroic" and "superheroic" magic. The spells wielded by "super-mages" such as Doctor Strange have few if any Limitations representing such things as material components (Foci), rituals involving Gestures, Incantantions, Concentration, Extra Time, etc. These are much more common in heroic-level games such as most of the fantasy genre. Super-magic, which current Champions books usually calls "thaumaturgy," reflects what you usually see wizards in comics wielding -- fast, easy, and combat-effective.
The only place I've seen the term "spirit hybrid" referred to in Fourth Edition is in The Ultimate Super Mage by Dean Shomshak. Since Dean's excellent writing for Fifth Edition forms the basis for the Mystic World subculture of the current official Champions Universe, it shouldn't be surprising that this particular concept has been carried forward.
As Dean describes them in both TUSM and his 5E book The Ultimate Mystic, "spirits" are beings from the Astral Plane and its related dimensions. Although they may assume solid form, they're not made of matter as we understand it. Spirits may be ghosts or atavisms spawned by human death or trauma, manifestations of natural forces like elementals, or embodiments of states of mind such as Good or Evil (angels and demons).
Spirit hybrids combine the powers of a spirit with a human body. This can be achieved by the spirit possessing a human, a spirit and human being permanently bonded together, or a human having a materialized spirit as a parent.
The ranks of superhumans in the official CU include several spirit hybrids of all categories. For example, the solar-powered Invictus derives his powers from a spirit sharing his body, the ghost of a priest to the Roman god Sol Invictus. The supervillain Riptide gained her abilities after being forcibly bonded to a water elemental. Frag, a villain able to project destructive energy, is unknowingly the child of the devil Malphas.
Ah, keeping to the subject of magic and what it is in the current edition, how does science deal with it? I remember mention of science not being able to detect magic back in SUper Mage, making mention that scanning a sword that was made to magically be unblreakable wouldn't tell the researcher investigating the sword why it was unbreakable. Is that still the case currently?
A non magic related question. Do the police forces of the Champs universe often have tasks forces for dealing with super crime? Is it the norm or the exception to the rule?
A non magic related question. Do the police forces of the Champs universe often have tasks forces for dealing with super crime? Is it the norm or the exception to the rule?
Most cities (I believe) in the US have a MARS team for dealing with super crime, with Millennium City being the place that set this trend. There's also PRIMUS who are department of justice, and UNTIL. On top of them most nations have their own versions of PRIMUS, Japan has Bureau 17 and Rapid Response Force Sakura, the United Kingdom used to have Bureau (some number I forget) which is now known as the Ministry of Superhuman Affairs (Or something to that effect if I'm wrong).
It's safe to say all nations have some governmental, police or judiciary way of dealing with superhumans outside of UNTIL and PRIMUS
Ah, keeping to the subject of magic and what it is in the current edition, how does science deal with it? I remember mention of science not being able to detect magic back in SUper Mage, making mention that scanning a sword that was made to magically be unblreakable wouldn't tell the researcher investigating the sword why it was unbreakable. Is that still the case currently?
AFAIK none of the Fifth Edition books addresses this issue specifically; but science and magic are almost always treated as separate disciplines. For example, UNTIL maintains a special task force, "Project Hermes," to study magic in general and magical threats to world security in particular, but it's made up of occult scholars without training in the "hard" sciences.
There are a few brilliant villains who are adept at both science and sorcery, or have even had some success combining the forces of both. These include Shadow Destroyer, Professor Paradigm, Herr Doktor Pandemonium of DEMON's Inner Circle, Gyre of the villain team The Devil's Advocates, and the Lemurian called Baelrath the Blasphemer.
Note that in the Champions Universe of Fifth and Sixth Edition, and Champions Online, the remarkable scientific breakthroughs made by some super-geniuses are partly attributable to high levels of ambient magic on modern Earth, which has made the laws of physics more flexible than on our world. However, magic and science are still distinct things, e.g. a Power designed to affect magical artifacts won't work against technology, and vice versa.
A non magic related question. Do the police forces of the Champs universe often have tasks forces for dealing with super crime? Is it the norm or the exception to the rule?
Most cities (I believe) in the US have a MARS team for dealing with super crime, with Millennium City being the place that set this trend. There's also PRIMUS who are department of justice, and UNTIL. On top of them most nations have their own versions of PRIMUS, Japan has Bureau 17 and Rapid Response Force Sakura, the United Kingdom used to have Bureau (some number I forget) which is now known as the Ministry of Superhuman Affairs (Or something to that effect if I'm wrong).
darkblade98 is essentially correct as far as American cities go. Millennium City introduced the first MARS (Metahuman Activities Response Squad) in 1995, made up of highly-trained officers with cutting-edge weaponry. These have since been copied in dozens of other cities in the United States, and quite likely in other cities around the world with the resources to field them. In addition, MCPD has created an elite unit within the MARS using even more powerful equipment, Special Unit Omega.
It's safe to say all nations have some governmental, police or judiciary way of dealing with superhumans outside of UNTIL and PRIMUS
Well, I'm not sure it's safe to say that all nations have their own domestic means to deal with superhumans. Many countries lack the financial or technological resources to field law-enforcement agents of that caliber, or don't have enough superhumans working for their governments to mount a credible defense. UNTIL would likely have a stronger presence in those countries assuming a given nation would allow UNTIL troops on its soil.
There's also often a distinction between specially trained and equipped, but otherwise normal human operatives, and government-sponsored superhumans. For example, Canada maintains a special anti-superhuman federal police force, a branch of the RCMP called the Steehead Division, but no state-controlled supers. Britain, France, China, and several other countries maintain their own cadres of government superheroes, but it's unclear from descriptions of them to date as to whether they also field non-super agents. While the United States has plenty of both.
I played Champions a long time ago and now play the champions online. It is very different but still fun.
With the release of the wind power set I was thinking of creating a character based on Bora. Unfortunately there is no current material on this villianess and I would like my toon to be as authentic as possible. I was wondering if you would be able to provide the write up on her (from any edition)
With the release of the wind power set I was thinking of creating a character based on Bora. Unfortunately there is no current material on this villianess and I would like my toon to be as authentic as possible. I was wondering if you would be able to provide the write up on her (from any edition)
Unfortunately I can't -- it would be up to Cryptic to do that if it wanted, since it owns the Champions IP. Even if that wasn't a problem, the last writeup of Bora I have is 20 years old and I don't have it any sort of electronic form I could post here (I just have a copy of Scott Bennie's excellent Classic Enemies supplement).
However, if you look at the "Air And Wind Powers" section of Champions Powers, there are plenty of sample powers there for characters like Bora. Champions Villains, Vol. 3 has two similar characters, Galeforce (who appears in CO) and Zephyr, whom you could also use for inspiration.
Unfortunately I can't -- it would be up to Cryptic to do that if it wanted, since it owns the Champions IP. Even if that wasn't a problem, the last writeup of Bora I have is 20 years old and I don't have it any sort of electronic form I could post here (I just have a copy of Scott Bennie's excellent Classic Enemies supplement).
In the official Champions Universe continuity, Bora was killed in 1996 during the war between Eurostar and VIPER; so unless Cryptic wants to revise that, updated stats for her are unlikely to appear anywhere official.
However, if you look at the "Air And Wind Powers" section of Champions Powers, there are plenty of sample powers there for characters like Bora. Champions Villains, Vol. 3 has two similar characters, Galeforce (who appears in CO) and Zephyr, whom you could also use for inspiration.
Two other wind/weather manipulators, Hurricane and Stormfront, are also in CV3. Between those four you should be able to come up with a good set of abilities.
Thanks to Steve and Laiden for getting back to me! As someone who has some experience in intellectual properly law I am not surprised that the source material is not immediately available. Regardless, I will have to check out the source material you have both suggested.
Since Steve is posting to this thread again, I have a question for him:
Where does the technology possessed by the Empyreans rank compared to the tech used by major Earthly scientist heroes and villains, and by advanced alien races such as the Malvans, Odrugarans, or Mandaarians? I know the Empyreans were taught the sciences by the incredibly advanced Progenitors, but the Empyreans' history in Hidden Lands seems to imply the Progenitors didn't teach them everything. There are very few examples of Empyrean-built devices in published books to judge by -- not unreasonable IMO, since their superhuman powers would make many of the uses of tech by less-gifted races unnecessary.
Where does the technology possessed by the Empyreans rank compared to the tech used by major Earthly scientist heroes and villains, and by advanced alien races such as the Malvans, Odrugarans, or Mandaarians? I know the Empyreans were taught the sciences by the incredibly advanced Progenitors, but the Empyreans' history in Hidden Lands seems to imply the Progenitors didn't teach them everything. There are very few examples of Empyrean-built devices in published books to judge by -- not unreasonable IMO, since their superhuman powers would make many of the uses of tech by less-gifted races unnecessary.
We've never addressed that point in print, but off the cuff my feeling is that whatever science the Empyreans do have is roughly on par with that of the top half of Human heroes/villains. That would also make it roughly equivalent to that of many alien civilizations. OTOH, some civilizations -- the Malvans, the Odrugarans, and Istvatha V'han, among others -- definitely have more advanced technology. So, of course, do the Progenitors, who definitely didn't give the Empyreans all their Cool Secret Stuff.
A little while ago I'd found out about a British hero named Albion, and since then I've read a little bit of information concerning him. However is there anything more about him than what I've read from the Champions Universe book?
Unfortunately, no. Hero Games long wanted to do a new Champions sourcebook covering the British Isles -- there was a fine one for the Fourth Edition of the game published around 20 years ago, called Kingdom of Champions -- but couldn't find a qualified writer with sufficient knowledge of both the region and the game (at least not one the company could afford to hire). Given the current state of Hero Games, more info on the heroes and villains of the Scepter'd Isle may be years coming, if ever.
The most official info about the Birdpeople (about one page) appears in the Fifth Edition Champions book, Champions Universe: News Of The World, p. 106. There's a bit more in Digital Hero #11, including an illustration, but DH material isn't considered "official" until it's published in a Champs book.
To summarize, the island of Thaar is a small, mountainous, mist-shrouded bit of land in the southern Indian Ocean, far from shipping lanes. It's the site of the city of the same name, home to the Birdpeople, who are the result of experiments by unknown aliens thousands of years ago. It was discovered by accident by the renowned superhero team, the Fabulous Five, in 1965. The Birdpeople prefer isolation, and few humans other than superheroes and scientists have spent time on their island. Officially Thaar is a protectorate of the United Nations and off-limits except with special permission, arranged through the Atlantean diplomatic consulate which acts as Thaar's representative. Thaar is an hereditary monarchy, currently ruled by Queen Kea.
Birdpeople are taller than humans (seven to nine feet), with large wings in addition to arms and legs, feathers covering their bodies, beaked faces with large eyes, and small (non-lethal) talons on fingers and toes. Birdpeople are quicker and more agile than humans on average, and have a few other avian-related abilities. (There's a 5E template for an average Birdperson in CU: NOTW). All Birdpeople are trained from an early age to fight with polearms, and sometimes learn other non-mechanical weapons. To date only two Birdpeople have visited the outside world: Princess Klee, who served with the Fabulous Five from 1970 to 1979 under the code-name Kestrel; and the traitorous former Captain of the Guard of Thaar, who became the supervillain Gyrfalcon. However, several younger Birdpeople have expressed interest in traveling beyond Thaar.
Seeing as all gods are real (last I heard) in CU...
Does this mean Religious lobbies/groups are even more of a pain in CU than they are in ours?
Has social progress been retarded because of this? e.g. kinda hard to be gay in the more religious parts of the world.
The role of religion in society on Champions Earth is pretty much the same as it is in the real world. In part that's in keeping with the example from mainstream comics of not changing the world so much as to make it unrecognizable. However, just because mythic gods in the CU are real doesn't mean they can run roughshod over the landscape. For reasons more involved than I want to get into now, gods have great difficulty manifesting in the modern world, at least with anything close to their full power in their home dimensions. They have to make do with avatars possessing a fraction of their power, or mortal servants/ champions to whom they grant superhuman abilities, or unique artifacts or elaborate spells which let a god manifest fully within a limited time and/or area. (CU lore has numerous examples of all these.) These restrictions apply even to the gods, angels, demons, etc. of the major "ethical" faiths like the Abrahamic religions.
Also keep in mind that in a world full of superhuman mutants, aliens, and the like, ordinary people are more likely to treat a being claiming godhood as just another superhero or villain with a particularly large ego.
Nonetheless, the presence of real supernatural entities and magic means that worshippers of mythic gods may be far more dangerous than in the real world. For example, cultists of the terrible Aztec god Tezcatlipoca can become naguals, able to project their astral bodies in the form of deadly spirit-jaguars.
OTOH some people have actually started to worship various superheroes or villains as divine agents or divinities in their own right. One notable example is the High Apostolic Church of Vibora Bay, a faction of whom see major supervillains such as Dr. Destroyer, Takofanes, or Dark Seraph as "dark saints" who must be propitiated and appeased to stave off a coming apocalypse.
Not much help from the PnP side for that, I'm afraid. The layout and visual style of Stronghold in Champions Online is very different from the facility as described in the Stronghold sourcebook -- no statues to be seen there, and it's clean, bright, open, and modern-looking. I think Cryptic wanted more of a "dungeon" look for their version of Stronghold.
Yeah, the statues were introduced for the online game. Like many other locations throughout the various zones, they provide visual landmarks visible from a distance to allow players to orient themselves.
Started playing table top in 09 when CO came out. Love the setting to pieces. Unfortunately lost all my books in a tragic accident involving letting a friend borrow them, children and a rather scrappy dog.
So I have a Three specific questions..its funny how it goes from COSMIC! to....little ol' street crime
1. If all residents of Elysium and the Netherworld, includ Yahweh/Allah/Jehovah and Lucifer/Baal et al
are merely products of the human imagination then do they lose power as folks stop believing in them and do they just go "poof" when people do stop, or are they just relegated to the land of legends and/or get a massive powering down, and what does any of these things mean for the individuals who "tap" into these "supernatural beings" power? Also, does that make them basically irrelevant, aside from their direct powers? Understadable if anything was done in the name of PC/Tolerance or respecting others beliefs systems.
2. Could you go into detail about The Ban, what it is, how it happened, why it happened and what its consequences are?
3. I have a street wise Costumed Vigilante called Grey Hawk--he's a transplant from an old Dark Champs game I had going on some time ago--, and I vaguely remember smatterings from my books about NightHawk, and IC I have his bio that he was inspired by stories about NightHawk that he read online, in the news, on TV etc etc. So could you give me a few tidbits about NightHawk's expolits, personality and his general persona/skills ?
Started playing table top in 09 when CO came out. Love the setting to pieces. Unfortunately lost all my books in a tragic accident involving letting a friend borrow them, children and a rather scrappy dog.
So I have a Three specific questions..its funny how it goes from COSMIC! to....little ol' street crime
1. If all residents of Elysium and the Netherworld, includ Yahweh/Allah/Jehovah and Lucifer/Baal et al
are merely products of the human imagination then do they lose power as folks stop believing in them and do they just go "poof" when people do stop, or are they just relegated to the land of legends and/or get a massive powering down, and what does any of these things mean for the individuals who "tap" into these "supernatural beings" power? Also, does that make them basically irrelevant, aside from their direct powers? Understadable if anything was done in the name of PC/Tolerance or respecting others beliefs systems.
As far as indivdual belief systems go, The Mystic World (premier source of canon regarding the occult cosmology of the CU) makes it clear that the "divine" inhabitants of these dimensions aren't the "true" gods of any of their faiths, assuming such beings actually exist. It's why they resemble popular conceptions of divinities more than how official dogma depicts them.
The power a god wields is definitely affected by the number of his/her worshippers, so many of the deities of legend who are no longer widely worshipped are much weaker than in their prime. (It's worth noting that in the real world some polytheistic/pagan pantheons, such as Shintoism in Japan or the gods of the Yoruba peoples in West Africa, still have millions of devotees and are strengthened accordingly. In the modern era some pagan faiths have been revived by relatively small numbers of worshippers, e.g. Asatru and Celtic Revivalism.) It's also true that gods forgotten for a long time eventually wither and die from lack of spiritual sustenance. For example, the gods of the Turakian Age have long since vanished, except for Krim due to the existence of his Crowns.
However, the waning of human belief has prompted pantheons who once ignored each others' existence to cooperate to prolong their survival. "Even if humans stopped believing in some of them, they could believe in each other and live off the immense reserve of stored belief that is the Land of Legends itself." (The Mystic World p. 19)
OTOH the demons of the Netherworld don't usually sustain themselves through worship as such, but by feeding off the spiritual energy of the souls of the damned who come to their hells. Several "dark gods" of now-defunct faiths, such as Beelzebub or Hel, have survived by becoming soul-sucking demons.
2. Could you go into detail about The Ban, what it is, how it happened, why it happened and what its consequences are?
In past millennia gods and other spirits walked the Earth freely. But starting around 700 BCE prophets arose who preached worship of gods embodying truth, virtue, and law, rather than the fallible gods of old: Gautama Buddha, Zoroaster, Lao Tzu. They taught that the proper seat of divinity was a higher state of being, not mundane mountains or islands. As such beliefs spread the old gods found it more and more difficult to manifest in the world, until by the time of Jesus the Ban shut them out almost completely. (Ironically, because the realm of the spirit is viewed as distinct from the physical world, the Ban applies just as much to the ethical gods as to those from myth.) This applied wherever the worshippers of the newer faiths spread, e.g. the deities of the New World only suffered the effects of the Ban after the European conquest.
Compounding the problem is the state of magic on Champions Earth. The level of "ambient magic" in the world waxes and wanes over time, affecting the amount of power that spellcasters and supernatural beings can wield here. During very low-magic periods creatures who are heavily supernatural can't even exist on Earth, and have to withdraw to one of the Imaginal Realms. For many centures before the Twentieth magic was at a low ebb. A major event in 1938 raised the level of magic in the world to the point where supernatural beings can exist on Earth again, and some of the less-powerful ones are known to visit this world; but even now the Ban prevents gods or godlike demons from manifesting on Earth with their full power intact.
Gods have a few options for acting directly in the world, though. They can create an avatar with a fraction of their power, which can exist in the world indefinitely; they can grant power, and often some of their personality, to mortals who act as their agents; great sacrifices let gods enter the world for a length of time proportionate to the sacrifice; a naturally-occuring dimensional intersection with the Imaginal Realms may let a god project all his power through it and around its immediate area; divine artifacts or very elaborate rituals may permit a god to fully manifest within a limited area. (Examples of all of these are part of CU lore.)
Gods can also still influence mortals on Earth subtly, as they did in past eras, through dreams, visions, and subconscious prompting. Nowadays they can also dispatch some of their lesser servants to Earth on their behalf.
3. I have a street wise Costumed Vigilante called Grey Hawk--he's a transplant from an old Dark Champs game I had going on some time ago--, and I vaguely remember smatterings from my books about NightHawk, and IC I have his bio that he was inspired by stories about NightHawk that he read online, in the news, on TV etc etc. So could you give me a few tidbits about NightHawk's expolits, personality and his general persona/skills ?
Mark Whittaker was a physically and intellectually gifted young man whose accomplishments in computer science, even as an undergraduate, attracted much academic and corporate attention. When VIPER raided his campus's computer science building Mark tried to intervene, but was wounded and his face scarred. This incident prompted Mark to dedicate himself to fighting criminals, particularly VIPER. He trained himself in various crimefighting skills and invented gadgets to help in his mission, then hit the streets in the guise of Nighthawk.
Nighthawk was one of the first to answer Defender's public request for recruits to his new Champions team, and rendered valuable service for years. However (and what follows is part of the pre-Cryptic timeline, so Cryptic might choose to change these details in future), Nighthawk became involved in an undercover mission without informing his fellow Champions, which led to his apparent death. The other Champions eventually discovered Nighthawk was still alive, but his lack of faith and trust in them hurt them. Relations soured to the point where Nighthawk left the team.
Soon after, Nighthawk formed his own team, using more proactive and legally-questionable tactics than the Champions. "Project Mongoose" has VIPER as its main target, so his recruits tended to be heroes or "grey" villains who are particular enemies of VIPER.
Nighthawk is similar in style and attitude to the recent movie version of Batman, except that his gadgetry is of his own devising. I can't recall any mention of him being inspired by an earlier hero called Nighthawk, but that may be a new detail added in some book that I've overlooked.
I can't recall any mention of him being inspired by an earlier hero called Nighthawk, but that may be a new detail added in some book that I've overlooked.
My grammar skills failed in my post. Didn't mean to imply NighHawk was inspired by an earlier NightHawk, was saying MY costumed vigilante GreyHawk , in his bio, was inspired by NightHawk his style, persona, methods etc.
I just couldn't remember for the life of me what the heck NightHawk was actually like.
Harbinger of Justice, Dark Angel and NightHawk were my three favorites from the setting, now that I've had a memory refresher I can actually remember that!. Harby because I loved to hate him
Is NightHawk and Defender's "relationship" now similar to that of Bats and Supes when its at its most strained?
EDIT: It would be really bad **** if NightHawk were to be implemented into CO for him to be voice acted by Kevin Conroy >.<. Hey one can dream!
Thanks LL for answering my questions and a very big thanks to the HERO Team for making all this stuff possibl, and ultimately this game possible, because of your creativity and talent.
Is NightHawk and Defender's "relationship" now similar to that of Bats and Supes when its at its most strained?
Their present-day relationship hasn't been spelled out anywhere, but just before NIghthawk left the Champions he and Defender actually came to blows, so I would guess it probably still isn't good. OTOH Nighthawk still helps the Champs on occasion when they need investigative expertise.
Their present-day relationship hasn't been spelled out anywhere, but just before NIghthawk left the Champions he and Defender actually came to blows, so I would guess it probably still isn't good. OTOH Nighthawk still helps the Champs on occasion when they need investigative expertise.
I imagine that didn't end terribly well for Hawk...
I rolled up a hero named "Liberty Eagle" and was planning on basing his background as a legacy hero, and great-grandson of American Eagle of The Freedom Squad from the module VOICE of Doom, and Champions Universe (4th ed.) sourcebook. I was thumbing through a 5th ed. sourcebook that had a small snippet of information about American Eagle, and was wondering if there were anything released for 6th ed. I could buy, or if anyone had a bio or anything for the current setting?
Hey hey, I was wondering if there was somewhere that I can find some info on Zephyr? I saw a random mention of a hero named Zephyr, I'd be curious to learn some info.
What is the origin of the crockadile people in Vibora Bay?
In the PnP material I think there is Al the misunderstood monster, but in the online version they are just swimming with these things, and you don't see a single one on Monster Island, where you would suspect they originated.
Also, on Monster Island, all those huts have buffalo sculls on them, but there are no buffalo on Monster Island...are they extinct because their skulls were so decorative??
I rolled up a hero named "Liberty Eagle" and was planning on basing his background as a legacy hero, and great-grandson of American Eagle of The Freedom Squad from the module VOICE of Doom, and Champions Universe (4th ed.) sourcebook. I was thumbing through a 5th ed. sourcebook that had a small snippet of information about American Eagle, and was wondering if there were anything released for 6th ed. I could buy, or if anyone had a bio or anything for the current setting?
The only mention of American Eagle in published Fifth/Sixth Edtion books so far is in Champions Universe. He's not the same character as in the Freedom Squad, which is not part of current official continuity. This American Eagle was a member of the Defenders of Justice, America's first superhero team, and served during WW II until he "disappeared in action in 1943." (CU 6E p. 12) He was also explicitly a true superhuman, unlike the Squad's Eagle.
If Darren Watts can eventually publish Golden Age Champions, I wouldn't be surprised if that will have much more about American Eagle.
Comments
1. Are there any photos (well pics, but lets be official here!0 of Dark Seraph and the other Crowns of Kirm (or is it Krim? I don't see it too often to know the spelling off hand) Because I am curious what each member looks like.
2. While I find Defender in Champions Online to be downright sad and silly (I blame the tutorial and his usual look except the time I saw him in aftershock 6, when he had the faceplate on that was the only true moment to me that he even looked remotely cool int his game
3. Besides the really big named villains like Shadow Destroyer, Dr. Destroyer, Teilios (close?), Viper, and a few others, who are other big bads? (Not as well known as say Mech or Dr. D, but still pretty big and a threat.)
4. How often do elementals or supernatural beings like angels and the like become super heroes? Become villains?
and finally for now,
5. Who is the most dangerous super hero solely because of their powers? Not because they use them destructively but are outright dangerous because of ether a lack of control or they just too powerful for the area they operate in?
Thanks in advance!
Hey, if you had to already know the lore to post, this thread would be pretty redundant. Ask away!
Three of the Crowns of Krim have appeared in Champions Online, and have illustrations on the official CO Wiki:
http://www.champions-online-wiki.com/wiki/Bloodstone
http://www.champions-online-wiki.com/wiki/Eclipse
http://www.champions-online-wiki.com/wiki/Phoenix
In addition, one of the fans of Champions PnP hosts online Dark Seraph's first illustration from a PnP game book for the current official Champions Universe: http://picasaweb.google.com/105094825235474582024/ChampionsArtwork?gsessionid=TqZm_HQ8Lg2d3v-lPy1fCA#5174332060424675026
Dark Seraph is one of the oldest villains in the Champions IP, dating back to the early 1980s, before there was even a "Crowns of Krim", so he's had multiple illos over the years which have varied somewhat in appearance, although the basic concept remains consistent. To a lesser extent this is also true of the other Crowns.
Let me refer you to this thread elsewhere on this forum: http://forums.champions-online.com/showthread.php?t=141120 . There have been three other visual renditions of Defender for Champions that I can recall, but I haven't the time to chase them down now. Let me get back to you.
Among the "master villains" (those with great power, followers, and/or grand schemes), the biggest names include Gravitar (world's most powerful mutant), Istvatha V'han (multi-dimensional conqueror), Kigatilik (mighty demon of winter night from the North), Menton (world's most powerful psionic), Franklin Stone (the CU's Lex Luthor), Takofanes (ancient undead sorceror of vast power), Tyrannon the Conqueror (magic other-dimensional tyrant), the Warlord (high-tech arms dealer and warmonger), and Dr. Yin Wu (immortal Chinese sorceror).
Solo villains who also possess enough power to be a major threat include Eclipsar (insane goddess of darkness), Firewing (alien gladiator obsessed with battle), Geothermal (genocidal eco-terrorist), Li Chun the Destroyer (demon-possessed Taoist mystic), Taipan (world's deadliest super-assassin), and Valak the World-Ravager (murderous alien warrior).
The most dangerous villain teams include the aforementioned Crowns of Krim, Eurostar (European political terrorists), the Devil's Advocates (mystic villains who want to end the dominance of technology), PSI (cabal of malevolent psionicists), and the Ultimates (diverse and experienced villains for hire). Besides VIPER, the most dangerous/influential organizations are DEMON (worldwide apocalyptic cult), ARGENT (pervasive high-tech pseudo-corporation), the Circle of the Scarlet Moon (subversive occult conspiracy with worldwide influence), and the Cult of the Red Banner (worshippers of The Dragon, ultimate source of evil on Earth).
Note that this list is only a representative sample, a mere fraction of what's in the setting.
Pretty often, actually. All the gods, demons, races, and creatures of human myth, folklore, and religion are "real" in a way, created and sustained by human imagination and belief. Most of them exist in other dimensions called "Imaginal Realms," but some pass to Earth from time to time, or take up residence here. Quite a few official heroes and villains of the setting are such beings, or were empowered by them.
That's an interesting question. Offhand I can't recall any official hero described in detail in a PnP book whose powers are that difficult to control -- at least, none who are still active. That tends to be part of some official villain's origin. Let me poke around a bit and see if I can turn one up.
EDIT: I remembered what I think is a good candidate, the powerful mystic called Josiah Brimstone. Brimstone had his soul forcibly exchanged with that of a demon by the great Demon Lord Belial. He has to maintain rigid self-control, or the demon will fully possess his body and wreak havoc, until Brimstone can re-assert his control.
Josiah Brimstone attempts to "do the right thing," but the influence of the demon's soul has tainted his personality. Even with the best of intentions he comes across as arrogant and selfish, and occasionally his evil inclinations take over completely.
Dragons have existed on Earth in past eras, both dragons resembling traditional Western conceptions, and those from other traditions such as the Oriental. As magical creatures they require a certain amount of "ambient magic" on Earth to sustain them, but magic on Earth had been on the wane for many centuries before the modern Age of Superheroes began in 1938. Presumably during that time all dragons withdrew to the astral dimension of Faerie, the abode of all the gods, creatures, and races from human myth and folklore.
Since 1938 magic on Earth has been high enough for supernatural beings to visit it once more. As for dragons specifically, the only one mentioned as interacting with the modern world is Brangomar, the Shadow Queen, tyrant of a region of Faerie called the Shadow Realm, who has fought Earthly superheroes several times. Brangomar is a powerful sorceress as well as a mighty dragon. She spends most of her time in the form of a beautiful human-seeming woman, the better to deal with her subjects and enjoy the comforts of her castle. Few people even know she's actually a dragon.
Here is the Champions team pre-Cryptic, featuring Defender's armor with a slightly different color scheme from the cover linked to in that other thread: https://www.herogames.com/get/champions1152x864.jpg
Here's an earlier rendering of Dark Seraph: http://www.realschluss.org/misc-pics/aylwin13-collection/VILLAINS/Male/darkseraph.html
Below I'm Attaching the first version of Defender, from Champions Fourth Edition (1989):
Masquerade.
In her/his/it's bio it's even stated that she (the name sounds feminine, so I'll go with she) is quite possibly the most dangerous villain on the planet. While she's not really much of a threat in a fight, she is the ultimate shapeshifter, who can copy other beings right down to the cellular level (she's not able to imitate superpowers though). Thus she's able to infiltrate almost everything. She feels completely above any other being and is quite amoral. She usually works as a spy or assassin for hire.
A good choice, although "most dangerous" depends on how you define the term. Many organizations are terrified of Masquerade infiltrating them; but are as if not more frightened of Menton. His enormous mental powers may already have him practically ruling at least part of the world, with no one even being aware of it.
Before he was rendered comatose and put into Stronghold, the cyberkinetic hacker Cybermind was the bogeyman to every person and group with a computer network or sensitive databases. No system was safe from his super-hacking. If he had more focus he would be a major world security threat.
What are the biggest lore differences between the two I should watch out for? Specifically, did the 4th edition Champions like Seeker, Jaguar, and Solitare exist in the current world, and were they ever members of the Champions?
Also, probably not a lore questions per se, but is it kosher for me to create player characters in-game based on characters from old 4th edition books, or does that violate some rule regarding the IP?
The differences between the 4E and 5E/ 6E CU are numerous, but range from the huge to the subtle. The history of the setting is different in many small and a few big ways, but very many of the characters and organizations from older editions have been carried forward to the new continuity, albeit often recast to a greater or lesser degree.
As for your specific question, as far as has been revealed most of the earlier Champions don't exist, and definitely were never members of the team. Seeker is supposed to have been a fictional character, replacing Nighthawk in the licensed Champions comic-book because Nighthawk wouldn't give permission to use his likeness.
My recommendation to you would be to pick up the 6E version of the PnP game book Champions Universe, which provides an overview of the entire setting, past and present. That would catch you up on most of the major differences.
Couldn't tell you for certain. It might be worth contacting one of the Cryptic Studios reps for an official position. In some cases they might have no plans for particular characters, so wouldn't object to your using them.
Just keep in mind that some of the characters appearing in earlier Champions books were licensed for use by their creators, thus weren't included in the IP bought by DOJ and then Cryptic.
How has magic changed from fourht ed to 6th? I know in fourth ed, there are different types of magic (Natural,high, Ritual, etc) Is this still the case or have things shifted? Like, what's the difference between a wizard you casts magic with spell components and Doctor Strange, who doesn't afraid of anything when it comes to magic.
The main distinction in magic, as has been the case since Fourth, is between "heroic" and "superheroic" magic. The spells wielded by "super-mages" such as Doctor Strange have few if any Limitations representing such things as material components (Foci), rituals involving Gestures, Incantantions, Concentration, Extra Time, etc. These are much more common in heroic-level games such as most of the fantasy genre. Super-magic, which current Champions books usually calls "thaumaturgy," reflects what you usually see wizards in comics wielding -- fast, easy, and combat-effective.
Thaniks, LL! You are a champ!
In fourth, there was mention of spirit hybrids. Do they appear in subsequent editions? Any changes at all?
As Dean describes them in both TUSM and his 5E book The Ultimate Mystic, "spirits" are beings from the Astral Plane and its related dimensions. Although they may assume solid form, they're not made of matter as we understand it. Spirits may be ghosts or atavisms spawned by human death or trauma, manifestations of natural forces like elementals, or embodiments of states of mind such as Good or Evil (angels and demons).
Spirit hybrids combine the powers of a spirit with a human body. This can be achieved by the spirit possessing a human, a spirit and human being permanently bonded together, or a human having a materialized spirit as a parent.
The ranks of superhumans in the official CU include several spirit hybrids of all categories. For example, the solar-powered Invictus derives his powers from a spirit sharing his body, the ghost of a priest to the Roman god Sol Invictus. The supervillain Riptide gained her abilities after being forcibly bonded to a water elemental. Frag, a villain able to project destructive energy, is unknowingly the child of the devil Malphas.
Most cities (I believe) in the US have a MARS team for dealing with super crime, with Millennium City being the place that set this trend. There's also PRIMUS who are department of justice, and UNTIL. On top of them most nations have their own versions of PRIMUS, Japan has Bureau 17 and Rapid Response Force Sakura, the United Kingdom used to have Bureau (some number I forget) which is now known as the Ministry of Superhuman Affairs (Or something to that effect if I'm wrong).
It's safe to say all nations have some governmental, police or judiciary way of dealing with superhumans outside of UNTIL and PRIMUS
AFAIK none of the Fifth Edition books addresses this issue specifically; but science and magic are almost always treated as separate disciplines. For example, UNTIL maintains a special task force, "Project Hermes," to study magic in general and magical threats to world security in particular, but it's made up of occult scholars without training in the "hard" sciences.
There are a few brilliant villains who are adept at both science and sorcery, or have even had some success combining the forces of both. These include Shadow Destroyer, Professor Paradigm, Herr Doktor Pandemonium of DEMON's Inner Circle, Gyre of the villain team The Devil's Advocates, and the Lemurian called Baelrath the Blasphemer.
Note that in the Champions Universe of Fifth and Sixth Edition, and Champions Online, the remarkable scientific breakthroughs made by some super-geniuses are partly attributable to high levels of ambient magic on modern Earth, which has made the laws of physics more flexible than on our world. However, magic and science are still distinct things, e.g. a Power designed to affect magical artifacts won't work against technology, and vice versa.
darkblade98 is essentially correct as far as American cities go. Millennium City introduced the first MARS (Metahuman Activities Response Squad) in 1995, made up of highly-trained officers with cutting-edge weaponry. These have since been copied in dozens of other cities in the United States, and quite likely in other cities around the world with the resources to field them. In addition, MCPD has created an elite unit within the MARS using even more powerful equipment, Special Unit Omega.
Well, I'm not sure it's safe to say that all nations have their own domestic means to deal with superhumans. Many countries lack the financial or technological resources to field law-enforcement agents of that caliber, or don't have enough superhumans working for their governments to mount a credible defense. UNTIL would likely have a stronger presence in those countries assuming a given nation would allow UNTIL troops on its soil.
There's also often a distinction between specially trained and equipped, but otherwise normal human operatives, and government-sponsored superhumans. For example, Canada maintains a special anti-superhuman federal police force, a branch of the RCMP called the Steehead Division, but no state-controlled supers. Britain, France, China, and several other countries maintain their own cadres of government superheroes, but it's unclear from descriptions of them to date as to whether they also field non-super agents. While the United States has plenty of both.
I played Champions a long time ago and now play the champions online. It is very different but still fun.
With the release of the wind power set I was thinking of creating a character based on Bora. Unfortunately there is no current material on this villianess and I would like my toon to be as authentic as possible. I was wondering if you would be able to provide the write up on her (from any edition)
thanks,
TFV
Unfortunately I can't -- it would be up to Cryptic to do that if it wanted, since it owns the Champions IP. Even if that wasn't a problem, the last writeup of Bora I have is 20 years old and I don't have it any sort of electronic form I could post here (I just have a copy of Scott Bennie's excellent Classic Enemies supplement).
However, if you look at the "Air And Wind Powers" section of Champions Powers, there are plenty of sample powers there for characters like Bora. Champions Villains, Vol. 3 has two similar characters, Galeforce (who appears in CO) and Zephyr, whom you could also use for inspiration.
In the official Champions Universe continuity, Bora was killed in 1996 during the war between Eurostar and VIPER; so unless Cryptic wants to revise that, updated stats for her are unlikely to appear anywhere official.
Two other wind/weather manipulators, Hurricane and Stormfront, are also in CV3. Between those four you should be able to come up with a good set of abilities.
Again, thank you both.
Where does the technology possessed by the Empyreans rank compared to the tech used by major Earthly scientist heroes and villains, and by advanced alien races such as the Malvans, Odrugarans, or Mandaarians? I know the Empyreans were taught the sciences by the incredibly advanced Progenitors, but the Empyreans' history in Hidden Lands seems to imply the Progenitors didn't teach them everything. There are very few examples of Empyrean-built devices in published books to judge by -- not unreasonable IMO, since their superhuman powers would make many of the uses of tech by less-gifted races unnecessary.
We've never addressed that point in print, but off the cuff my feeling is that whatever science the Empyreans do have is roughly on par with that of the top half of Human heroes/villains. That would also make it roughly equivalent to that of many alien civilizations. OTOH, some civilizations -- the Malvans, the Odrugarans, and Istvatha V'han, among others -- definitely have more advanced technology. So, of course, do the Progenitors, who definitely didn't give the Empyreans all their Cool Secret Stuff.
The most official info about the Birdpeople (about one page) appears in the Fifth Edition Champions book, Champions Universe: News Of The World, p. 106. There's a bit more in Digital Hero #11, including an illustration, but DH material isn't considered "official" until it's published in a Champs book.
To summarize, the island of Thaar is a small, mountainous, mist-shrouded bit of land in the southern Indian Ocean, far from shipping lanes. It's the site of the city of the same name, home to the Birdpeople, who are the result of experiments by unknown aliens thousands of years ago. It was discovered by accident by the renowned superhero team, the Fabulous Five, in 1965. The Birdpeople prefer isolation, and few humans other than superheroes and scientists have spent time on their island. Officially Thaar is a protectorate of the United Nations and off-limits except with special permission, arranged through the Atlantean diplomatic consulate which acts as Thaar's representative. Thaar is an hereditary monarchy, currently ruled by Queen Kea.
Birdpeople are taller than humans (seven to nine feet), with large wings in addition to arms and legs, feathers covering their bodies, beaked faces with large eyes, and small (non-lethal) talons on fingers and toes. Birdpeople are quicker and more agile than humans on average, and have a few other avian-related abilities. (There's a 5E template for an average Birdperson in CU: NOTW). All Birdpeople are trained from an early age to fight with polearms, and sometimes learn other non-mechanical weapons. To date only two Birdpeople have visited the outside world: Princess Klee, who served with the Fabulous Five from 1970 to 1979 under the code-name Kestrel; and the traitorous former Captain of the Guard of Thaar, who became the supervillain Gyrfalcon. However, several younger Birdpeople have expressed interest in traveling beyond Thaar.
Does this mean Religious lobbies/groups are even more of a pain in CU than they are in ours?
Has social progress been retarded because of this? e.g. kinda hard to be gay in the more religious parts of the world.
Also keep in mind that in a world full of superhuman mutants, aliens, and the like, ordinary people are more likely to treat a being claiming godhood as just another superhero or villain with a particularly large ego.
Nonetheless, the presence of real supernatural entities and magic means that worshippers of mythic gods may be far more dangerous than in the real world. For example, cultists of the terrible Aztec god Tezcatlipoca can become naguals, able to project their astral bodies in the form of deadly spirit-jaguars.
OTOH some people have actually started to worship various superheroes or villains as divine agents or divinities in their own right. One notable example is the High Apostolic Church of Vibora Bay, a faction of whom see major supervillains such as Dr. Destroyer, Takofanes, or Dark Seraph as "dark saints" who must be propitiated and appeased to stave off a coming apocalypse.
....what's the deal with those statues over Stronghold?
Roll on Witchcrafts ascension thingy is all I can say!
So I have a Three specific questions..its funny how it goes from COSMIC! to....little ol' street crime
1. If all residents of Elysium and the Netherworld, includ Yahweh/Allah/Jehovah and Lucifer/Baal et al
are merely products of the human imagination then do they lose power as folks stop believing in them and do they just go "poof" when people do stop, or are they just relegated to the land of legends and/or get a massive powering down, and what does any of these things mean for the individuals who "tap" into these "supernatural beings" power? Also, does that make them basically irrelevant, aside from their direct powers? Understadable if anything was done in the name of PC/Tolerance or respecting others beliefs systems.
2. Could you go into detail about The Ban, what it is, how it happened, why it happened and what its consequences are?
3. I have a street wise Costumed Vigilante called Grey Hawk--he's a transplant from an old Dark Champs game I had going on some time ago--, and I vaguely remember smatterings from my books about NightHawk, and IC I have his bio that he was inspired by stories about NightHawk that he read online, in the news, on TV etc etc. So could you give me a few tidbits about NightHawk's expolits, personality and his general persona/skills ?
My profound sympathies. Major suckage,
As far as indivdual belief systems go, The Mystic World (premier source of canon regarding the occult cosmology of the CU) makes it clear that the "divine" inhabitants of these dimensions aren't the "true" gods of any of their faiths, assuming such beings actually exist. It's why they resemble popular conceptions of divinities more than how official dogma depicts them.
The power a god wields is definitely affected by the number of his/her worshippers, so many of the deities of legend who are no longer widely worshipped are much weaker than in their prime. (It's worth noting that in the real world some polytheistic/pagan pantheons, such as Shintoism in Japan or the gods of the Yoruba peoples in West Africa, still have millions of devotees and are strengthened accordingly. In the modern era some pagan faiths have been revived by relatively small numbers of worshippers, e.g. Asatru and Celtic Revivalism.) It's also true that gods forgotten for a long time eventually wither and die from lack of spiritual sustenance. For example, the gods of the Turakian Age have long since vanished, except for Krim due to the existence of his Crowns.
However, the waning of human belief has prompted pantheons who once ignored each others' existence to cooperate to prolong their survival. "Even if humans stopped believing in some of them, they could believe in each other and live off the immense reserve of stored belief that is the Land of Legends itself." (The Mystic World p. 19)
OTOH the demons of the Netherworld don't usually sustain themselves through worship as such, but by feeding off the spiritual energy of the souls of the damned who come to their hells. Several "dark gods" of now-defunct faiths, such as Beelzebub or Hel, have survived by becoming soul-sucking demons.
In past millennia gods and other spirits walked the Earth freely. But starting around 700 BCE prophets arose who preached worship of gods embodying truth, virtue, and law, rather than the fallible gods of old: Gautama Buddha, Zoroaster, Lao Tzu. They taught that the proper seat of divinity was a higher state of being, not mundane mountains or islands. As such beliefs spread the old gods found it more and more difficult to manifest in the world, until by the time of Jesus the Ban shut them out almost completely. (Ironically, because the realm of the spirit is viewed as distinct from the physical world, the Ban applies just as much to the ethical gods as to those from myth.) This applied wherever the worshippers of the newer faiths spread, e.g. the deities of the New World only suffered the effects of the Ban after the European conquest.
Compounding the problem is the state of magic on Champions Earth. The level of "ambient magic" in the world waxes and wanes over time, affecting the amount of power that spellcasters and supernatural beings can wield here. During very low-magic periods creatures who are heavily supernatural can't even exist on Earth, and have to withdraw to one of the Imaginal Realms. For many centures before the Twentieth magic was at a low ebb. A major event in 1938 raised the level of magic in the world to the point where supernatural beings can exist on Earth again, and some of the less-powerful ones are known to visit this world; but even now the Ban prevents gods or godlike demons from manifesting on Earth with their full power intact.
Gods have a few options for acting directly in the world, though. They can create an avatar with a fraction of their power, which can exist in the world indefinitely; they can grant power, and often some of their personality, to mortals who act as their agents; great sacrifices let gods enter the world for a length of time proportionate to the sacrifice; a naturally-occuring dimensional intersection with the Imaginal Realms may let a god project all his power through it and around its immediate area; divine artifacts or very elaborate rituals may permit a god to fully manifest within a limited area. (Examples of all of these are part of CU lore.)
Gods can also still influence mortals on Earth subtly, as they did in past eras, through dreams, visions, and subconscious prompting. Nowadays they can also dispatch some of their lesser servants to Earth on their behalf.
Mark Whittaker was a physically and intellectually gifted young man whose accomplishments in computer science, even as an undergraduate, attracted much academic and corporate attention. When VIPER raided his campus's computer science building Mark tried to intervene, but was wounded and his face scarred. This incident prompted Mark to dedicate himself to fighting criminals, particularly VIPER. He trained himself in various crimefighting skills and invented gadgets to help in his mission, then hit the streets in the guise of Nighthawk.
Nighthawk was one of the first to answer Defender's public request for recruits to his new Champions team, and rendered valuable service for years. However (and what follows is part of the pre-Cryptic timeline, so Cryptic might choose to change these details in future), Nighthawk became involved in an undercover mission without informing his fellow Champions, which led to his apparent death. The other Champions eventually discovered Nighthawk was still alive, but his lack of faith and trust in them hurt them. Relations soured to the point where Nighthawk left the team.
Soon after, Nighthawk formed his own team, using more proactive and legally-questionable tactics than the Champions. "Project Mongoose" has VIPER as its main target, so his recruits tended to be heroes or "grey" villains who are particular enemies of VIPER.
Nighthawk is similar in style and attitude to the recent movie version of Batman, except that his gadgetry is of his own devising. I can't recall any mention of him being inspired by an earlier hero called Nighthawk, but that may be a new detail added in some book that I've overlooked.
My grammar skills failed in my post. Didn't mean to imply NighHawk was inspired by an earlier NightHawk, was saying MY costumed vigilante GreyHawk , in his bio, was inspired by NightHawk his style, persona, methods etc.
I just couldn't remember for the life of me what the heck NightHawk was actually like.
Harbinger of Justice, Dark Angel and NightHawk were my three favorites from the setting, now that I've had a memory refresher I can actually remember that!. Harby because I loved to hate him
Is NightHawk and Defender's "relationship" now similar to that of Bats and Supes when its at its most strained?
EDIT: It would be really bad **** if NightHawk were to be implemented into CO for him to be voice acted by Kevin Conroy >.<. Hey one can dream!
Thanks LL for answering my questions and a very big thanks to the HERO Team for making all this stuff possibl, and ultimately this game possible, because of your creativity and talent.
Their present-day relationship hasn't been spelled out anywhere, but just before NIghthawk left the Champions he and Defender actually came to blows, so I would guess it probably still isn't good. OTOH Nighthawk still helps the Champs on occasion when they need investigative expertise.
I imagine that didn't end terribly well for Hawk...
If in super togs, still not a cakewalk for Defender. Nighthawk's good, and he carries quite an arsenal of gimmicks.
In the PnP material I think there is Al the misunderstood monster, but in the online version they are just swimming with these things, and you don't see a single one on Monster Island, where you would suspect they originated.
Also, on Monster Island, all those huts have buffalo sculls on them, but there are no buffalo on Monster Island...are they extinct because their skulls were so decorative??
The only mention of American Eagle in published Fifth/Sixth Edtion books so far is in Champions Universe. He's not the same character as in the Freedom Squad, which is not part of current official continuity. This American Eagle was a member of the Defenders of Justice, America's first superhero team, and served during WW II until he "disappeared in action in 1943." (CU 6E p. 12) He was also explicitly a true superhuman, unlike the Squad's Eagle.
If Darren Watts can eventually publish Golden Age Champions, I wouldn't be surprised if that will have much more about American Eagle.