test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

Feedback Thread: Power Changes

kaizerinkaizerin Posts: 2,179 Cryptic Developer
edited February 2 in PTS - The Archive
Use this thread to discuss any power changes made in this current PTS cycle.

FC.31.20190108.1

Powers
Lance Rain
  • Changed Activation time to 0.83 seconds (from 0.5).
  • Adjusted damage and cost.
  • Increased cooldown to 20 seconds (from 0).
  • Increased area effect to 25ft (from 15).
  • New advantage: Knocks down and Roots targets.


FC.31.20190108.4

Powers
  • Updated the way certain powers apply knock resistance. This should have no noticeable change to the power, they are just being updated to work the same way other powers do. Affected powers: Pounce, Rend and Tear, Uppercut, Support Drone Knockback Beam, Gravity Driver, Hurl (Stag Manimal device), Thrash (Bear manimal device).


FC.31.20190108.8

Powers
  • Corrected some typos on unlockable power descriptions.



FC.31.20190108.9

Powers
Ego Blade Pandemonium
  • This power can no longer critically hit.
  • The critical hit bonus this power grants for your other attacks now scales with rank.
  • Fixed a bug where the critical hit bonus on this power wasn't applying.
  • Leave a Mark advantage: Renamed to Menacing. Now applies threat based on how many stacks of Ego Leech on you when activating the power. Overall threat increased by 5% if you are at 5 stacks.



Please format any bugs you find in the following format:
Bug
Where it happens
What happens

BBCode:
[color="#ff0000"]Bug
Where it happens
What happens[/color]

HTML:
<font color="#ff0000">Bug
Where it happens
What happens</font>

Please format any suggestions you have in the following format:
Suggestion
Your suggestion

BBCode:
[color="#4a86e8"]Suggestion
Your suggestion[/color]

HTML:
<font color="#4a86e8">Suggestion
Your suggestion</font>


​​
Post edited by kaizerin on
«134

Comments

  • avianosavianos Posts: 4,730 Arc User
    edited January 10
    kaizerin wrote: »
    Powers
    Lance Rain
    • Changed Activation time to 0.83 seconds (from 0.5).
    • Adjusted damage and cost.
    • Increased cooldown to 20 seconds (from 0).
    • Increased area effect to 25ft (from 15).
    • New advantage: Knocks down and Roots targets.
    WOW THERE, 20 seconds is unfairly long cooldown, Can at least be reduced around 10?
    20 Seconds is certainly ridiculous, it's an overkill​​
    An Introvert guy who use CO to make his characters playable but farms way to much to archieve that
    Playing as EVERYTHING but Superheroes (BUT they are my Heroes) Eternal Silver since 1 February 2011
    Currently playing with 72+ Characters (7 ATs, 65 FFs) Loving all of them, ALTitis for Life
  • avianosavianos Posts: 4,730 Arc User
    PLEASE RECONSINDER​​
    An Introvert guy who use CO to make his characters playable but farms way to much to archieve that
    Playing as EVERYTHING but Superheroes (BUT they are my Heroes) Eternal Silver since 1 February 2011
    Currently playing with 72+ Characters (7 ATs, 65 FFs) Loving all of them, ALTitis for Life
  • avianosavianos Posts: 4,730 Arc User
    Comparison (in Hybrid because the character is a Tank)
    LIVE
    XDXH96n.png

    PTS
    TrLjPao.png

    so the power's overall Damaged and Ego Leech rupture got buffed

    I was getting 15 sec CD with Heroic Helmet of Utility, still too much. It makes the power situational and due to the increased Activation time it can be easily interrupted by enemies. Not to mention, anything in team content will die from your team mates before you fully charge it

    I still suggest recucing the default CD of the power to 15 from 20, the CD is an overkill​​
    An Introvert guy who use CO to make his characters playable but farms way to much to archieve that
    Playing as EVERYTHING but Superheroes (BUT they are my Heroes) Eternal Silver since 1 February 2011
    Currently playing with 72+ Characters (7 ATs, 65 FFs) Loving all of them, ALTitis for Life
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 15,460 Arc User
    edited January 10
    avianos wrote: »
    It makes the power situational and due to the increased Activation time it can be easily interrupted by enemies.

    Mmm...not really? It's a power that does damage, and it'll do damage to anything. That's not the attributes of a situational power. You would have to name situations where the power isn't useful, and there really aren't any. You could make an argument that it's not as good in a single target dps situation as a single target power would be, but all aoe powers are situational in that way.
    avianos wrote: »
    Not to mention, anything in team content will die from your team mates before you fully charge it

    That's a great problem to have. Of course, once you're in that situation all concern of powers being situational or really power effectiveness in general goes right out the window. Nothing matters at that point, just roll your face across the keyboard and wait for the encounter to end. In solo situations this power seems like it would still be very effective, even if you can only use it once or twice per encounter, even if it is your only aoe.

    15 seconds isn't really that long.​​
  • colonelwingcolonelwing Posts: 221 Arc User
    edited January 10
    avianos wrote: »
    I was getting 15 sec CD with Heroic Helmet of Utility​​

    So you're missing a mod slot and it stat - wise is not the best gear, for testing cooldown related things. Might aswell go with green items and r2 mods... I can get the CD down to 11 seconds. Keep in mind for that you'd have to sacrifice your utility damage mod.


    Cheerio!

  • avianosavianos Posts: 4,730 Arc User
    spinnytop wrote: »
    15 seconds isn't really that long.
    Yes it is​​
    An Introvert guy who use CO to make his characters playable but farms way to much to archieve that
    Playing as EVERYTHING but Superheroes (BUT they are my Heroes) Eternal Silver since 1 February 2011
    Currently playing with 72+ Characters (7 ATs, 65 FFs) Loving all of them, ALTitis for Life
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 6,396 Arc User
    avianos wrote: »
    Not to mention, anything in team content will die from your team mates before you fully charge it​​
    Plenty of stuff lasts longer than 2s. We're not talking orbital cannon with its 7.5s delay here.
  • psychicslugpsychicslug Posts: 412 Arc User
    I was thinking a celestial revamp but guess i will still be waiting, but great one power that i don't have locked behind a grind got redone.



  • servantrulesservantrules Posts: 293 Arc User
    Maybe cut the base CD to 15 seconds? That seems like a fair compromise.
  • avianosavianos Posts: 4,730 Arc User
    edited January 11
    I told myself to let it go but I couldn't and all I wanted was to play Smash Bros
    So far the best I can the get the power is on 15-14 seconds with endgame gear and rank 9s.
    I would like the opinion of other players about this CD Nerf, especially experienced ones who know what they are talking about and don't talk trash

    Personal experience with this power the past 3 months did showed the power was indeed overperforming so that's an aspect I completely understand, especially with old activation time in Qzone soloing, couldn't ignore the fact the power would get activated even when the enemy CC/knocked me

    I feel like the Devs are trying to turn the power into a Mini-ultimate, especially since they increased the damage AoE range, a will be useful only as Alpha Strike attack

    However no matter how I see it, 20 seconds CD Is still harsh, especially while the power is relying on Ego Leech rupture along Criticals Hits for best damage and coming with a Huge Energy Cost to finish off the job

    So now we have
    1. Ego Leech Rupture requirement
    2. Critical Hit requirement, if the power won't critical hit you wasted it
    3. High Energy Cost, you can hardly spam it if you have energy issues
    4. Works only on Full Charge
    5. 20 Seconds CD which the minimum with Gear can go to 14
    6. The power is Locked behind Onslaught Paywall Not relevant anymore because OSV is a Joke and can be easily farmed
    Why even bother with it? May as well go with Telekinetic Barrage for reliable AoE attack and Telekinetic Burst to a lesser degree (the later not being that good)

    That's how I feel, STILL AN AWESOME POWER, Won't remove it out of my builds if nothing change, I will just have to use it along Tk Barrage
    again I would like more opinions before this goes Live
    33e.png
    New advantage: Knocks down and Roots targets.
    Is it useful though with the CD?
    20 Seconds for a knock and CC effect which will break into seconds?

    Personally with that duration I would to see something more useful for the time the attack is not being used on CD, like a Buff/Debuff Rune on the ground the attack landed
    Since Holy Lances the TK Blades can give the illusion of, can work great for Celestial-Holy themed characters (and if only)​​
    Post edited by avianos on
    An Introvert guy who use CO to make his characters playable but farms way to much to archieve that
    Playing as EVERYTHING but Superheroes (BUT they are my Heroes) Eternal Silver since 1 February 2011
    Currently playing with 72+ Characters (7 ATs, 65 FFs) Loving all of them, ALTitis for Life
  • warcanchwarcanch Posts: 646 Arc User
    This does compare to Orbital Cannon now. Orbital Cannon is not a "go to" power because it has a cooldown and a long delay after charge up. There are plenty of other AoE powers to take instead of one(s) with cooldowns.

    By their very nature, the cooldown delays on powers make them situational as you now have to decide is it worth it to fire off this power now or later, since I can't just charge up another usage of it right away if I have the energy.

    Sure, you can argue that "I'll use it as my Alpha Strike" and go to town with my other powers. I can do that with my Rocket Launcher, but within 5 seconds I can actually use it again, if I decide the situation warrants. Or my Force Cascade, if I have the energy.

    A 20 second cooldown just makes this power a less desirable choice when picking powers.​​
    .

    -=-=-=-=-=-(CO in-game handle: @WarCan )-=-=-=-=-=-
    "Okay, you're DEAD, what do you do NEXT?"
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 6,396 Arc User
    warcanch wrote: »
    This does compare to Orbital Cannon now. Orbital Cannon is not a "go to" power because it has a cooldown and a long delay after charge up. There are plenty of other AoE powers to take instead of one(s) with cooldowns.
    The reason people don't use orbital cannon is not the cooldown. It's the 4.5s delay between finishing charging and damage hitting.
  • lezard21lezard21 Posts: 1,354 Arc User
    There are a lot of factors that point towards Lance Rain being intended as an Alpha Strike now.

    a) First the obvious 20 second cooldown. There is no group of mobs in the game that can survive more than 20 seconds against a good build, specially if you have a headstart in the fight by dealing a huge amount of damage uninterrupted...
    b) which is what Lance Rain does since it got a hefty damage boost
    c) the root and knock advantage, intended to temporarily disable mobs while you peel the dangerous ones away to kill first

    So I say that Lance Rain is intended to be used by prebuilding 5 stacks of Ego Leech, using Lance Rain against a group of enemies and killing them, then by the time the cooldown is of you can immediately move to another group of mobs and repeat the process.​​
  • violetnychusvioletnychus Posts: 132 Arc User
    edited January 11
    So I say that Lance Rain is intended to be used by prebuilding 5 stacks of Ego Leech, using Lance Rain against a group of enemies and killing them, then by the time the cooldown is of you can immediately move to another group of mobs and repeat the process.​​

    If you need to prebuild a resource it definitely is not suitable for alpha strikes.

    That only makes any sense in, say, grab alerts and such when enemy groups are close enough to carry ego leech.

    PTS version has virtually no use on bosses or enemies you need to seek out.
  • warcanchwarcanch Posts: 646 Arc User
    edited January 11
    warcanch wrote: »
    This does compare to Orbital Cannon now. Orbital Cannon is not a "go to" power because it has a cooldown and a long delay after charge up. There are plenty of other AoE powers to take instead of one(s) with cooldowns.
    The reason people don't use orbital cannon is not the cooldown. It's the 4.5s delay between finishing charging and damage hitting.

    Agree to disagree. I believe it's both.​​
    .

    -=-=-=-=-=-(CO in-game handle: @WarCan )-=-=-=-=-=-
    "Okay, you're DEAD, what do you do NEXT?"
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 15,460 Arc User
    edited January 11
    If you need to prebuild a resource it definitely is not suitable for alpha strikes.

    That only makes any sense in, say, grab alerts and such when enemy groups are close enough to carry ego leech.

    It's actually pretty easy to end a fight with fully stacked Ego Leech and find your way to the next encounter. When doing open world missions the groups of enemies you need to fight are generally close together, and in lairs they're even closer together. Really the only time you won't have an easy time being stacked with Ego Leech is when travelling between locations, or at the very start of an alert/lair. So really, there's more time where you can expect to start a fight stacked with Ego Leech than there is time where you can't. As an example, when doing QWZ dailies on my TK characters, that's how it is.

    And even for situations where you are starting an alert/lair or just arrived at the area where you need to start blowing up stuff for your quest, TK has many powers that allow you to both gain instant 5 stacks of ego leech at the start of a fight, and incapacitate enemies to allow you to start charging Lance Rain.
    warcanch wrote: »
    warcanch wrote: »
    This does compare to Orbital Cannon now. Orbital Cannon is not a "go to" power because it has a cooldown and a long delay after charge up. There are plenty of other AoE powers to take instead of one(s) with cooldowns.
    The reason people don't use orbital cannon is not the cooldown. It's the 4.5s delay between finishing charging and damage hitting.

    Agree to disagree. I believe it's both.

    I'll just propose this: People use Ultimates, which have long cooldowns, so long cooldowns on attacks clearly don't deter people from using them.​​
  • warcanchwarcanch Posts: 646 Arc User
    Of course, we take Ultimates, Active Defense, Active Offense powers that have a much longer cooldown. Absolutely situational usages.

    Fair point made about having stacks if you've been active in an area.

    It just feels like a cooldown is just tacked on.

    Ideally, you should be using this power only if you have some stacks. The same can be said for TK Lance (is that the correct name? I'm a little rusty). However, that power can still do pretty good damage by just spamming it. Best damage is if you have some stacks for it to use. Point being, leave it to the player if they want to spam it for sub-optimal damage, not the cooldown.

    If anything, compare it to Gigabolt and Force Cascade. Gigabolt gets an 8 second lockout to charging it again if you fully charged it. Force Cascade applies the Energy Form cost reduction lockout for 8 seconds. However, you can spam fully charged Force Cascades if you have the energy for it. I'd say, if anything, give it the "gigabolt" treatment. Some sort of 8 second lockout that isn't affected by time redux.

    On paper, going from 0 to 20 second cooldown just seems too long.​​
    .

    -=-=-=-=-=-(CO in-game handle: @WarCan )-=-=-=-=-=-
    "Okay, you're DEAD, what do you do NEXT?"
  • warcanchwarcanch Posts: 646 Arc User
    Ok, I just tested the power on PTS. Used a char that has various ranged TK powers and Lance Rain at r3.

    Not ultra geared, but cooldown is at 18 seconds.

    It is OK for an Alpha, if you have the full 5 stacks. However, if I don't use any other power that applies or refreshes these stacks, the timer is a little bit too long and my stacks fall away before I can fire it again. If 5 seconds were shaved off the base cooldown, my stacks (whatever and however many) would be there for the next strike.

    Overall, it felt like the cooldown was just about 5-10 seconds too long. You know how you get a rhythm going for things, and this is how it felt to me.​​
    .

    -=-=-=-=-=-(CO in-game handle: @WarCan )-=-=-=-=-=-
    "Okay, you're DEAD, what do you do NEXT?"
  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 9,812 Arc User
    Just quickly checked to make sure the Egomaniacal adv is working as advertised, and it seems to be; the Root can proc Manip, and the KD can proc Enrage. The power is also still properly AoE flagged. Unsure how I feel about the cd atm. Lance Rain can hit very hard for a long-range 25ft spherical AoE that's not an ult. I guess I could see the argument for lowering its cd a bit, but not by much w/ its current properties.

    (Speaking of ults: just noticed a small typo in Crashing Incantation's description where "<br/>" is typed after the lockbox info instead of the normal line break, and it seems like the text afterwards that would briefly describe the power isn't there. Catastrophic Pummeling also has this typo. Sorry for going off-topic here, but it should be pretty quick to fix them.)
    ________________
    <CO docs> .: Petco :. // Base DPS Sheet (older power data) // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
    - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
  • aesicaaesica Posts: 2,373 Arc User
    warcanch wrote: »
    warcanch wrote: »
    This does compare to Orbital Cannon now. Orbital Cannon is not a "go to" power because it has a cooldown and a long delay after charge up. There are plenty of other AoE powers to take instead of one(s) with cooldowns.
    The reason people don't use orbital cannon is not the cooldown. It's the 4.5s delay between finishing charging and damage hitting.

    Agree to disagree. I believe it's both.​​
    What keeps me from using it every single time is the 4.5 sec pre-activation delay, not the cooldown. In a solo setting, it may work, but in any group setting, your team mates will have either dragged things out of its range or (if they're strong enough) killed some of the weaker things outright by the time it goes off.

    A ~20 second cooldown is fine for a power intended to be an alpha strike.
    (Hopefully) Useful CO Resources: HeroCreator (character planner), Cosmic Timers/Alert Checklist, Blood Moon Map, Anniversary Cat Map, and more (eventually, anyway).
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 6,396 Arc User
    aesica wrote: »
    What keeps me from using it every single time is the 4.5 sec pre-activation delay, not the cooldown. In a solo setting, it may work, but in any group setting, your team mates will have either dragged things out of its range or (if they're strong enough) killed some of the weaker things outright by the time it goes off.
    I remember having people kill everything in Therakiel's Temple before the attack hit, back in something like 2011. 7.5s (charge time plus time to hit) is longer than anything but bosses live.
  • kaizerinkaizerin Posts: 2,179 Cryptic Developer
    edited February 2

    FC.31.20190108.9
    ​​
    Post edited by kaizerin on
  • bringmeaslabbringmeaslab Posts: 153 Arc User
    RIP EBP.
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 6,396 Arc User
    RIP EBP.
    It still has some applications, but yeah, no longer 'clearly the best power for all melee builds' (I had no idea it was supposed to increase crit chance on other powers, I assumed the crit chance boost was for EBP).
  • So, why nerf ego blade pandemonium, it was like 3-4k dps if you setup for it (as in dps specs and such) plus whatever you were putting out with your combo and the rupture attack, but it had a long cooldown, so the buff in dps was pretty much worth it.

    similiar to how people want haymaker nerfed, why? you have to BUILD for that power to do proper damage, it has a very long charge, a very huge energy cost, and it can be easily interrupted, knocked, etc etc.

    however I can understand that ego blade pandemonium might still be good considering you can use it while doing other powers, should still give a nice dps increase.

    but, why nerf this? why not, i don't know, buff other ultimates that are useless or almost useless, and the only nice thing about them is the visual effects? why not fix say, catastrophic pummeling which was rushed. or meteor blaze which has mediocre damage, endbringer's grasp?

    anyway just my opinion other people may have a different opinion on the powers I mentioned, so please don't attack me lol.
  • gentlegiantvexxgentlegiantvexx Posts: 290 Community Moderator
    Thank god.
    Because that was definitely starting to become a Zero to Hero power for melee pretty bad.
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 6,396 Arc User
    So, why nerf ego blade pandemonium
    Because it was clearly the best tank ultimate and mostly the best melee ultimate?
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 15,460 Arc User
    Good. No more "spinning swords online" o3o Now to decide which ultimate to switch my tank to `3`​​
  • poptartmaniac#8493 poptartmaniac Posts: 161 Arc User
    edited February 2
    After doing some testing, it's still decent, and I can understand the nerf it was pretty Over powered.

    however I have one complaint, the threat buff works off ego leech now which means you are forced to have a way to stack ego leech if you want to use the power, and that's kind of annoying to fit in on most endgame tank builds specially dodge tanks who are forced to fit in a ton of other stuff..
This discussion has been closed.