2 sec reveal is too much, it defeats the purpose of stealth. Removing 100% crit chance and nerfing twilight adept (5% down from 10%) would solve a lot of problems.
but if you make it 1 sec it will be useless, since is the dodge time, 1.5 is the stun plus dodge. I think 2 sec is a good number.
TRs have 6 dodges in combat, it's pretty ridiculous if you ask me, this coupled with twilight adept + insane dmg, they are essentially unbeatable 1v1 wise.
2 sec reveal is too much, it defeats the purpose of stealth. Removing 100% crit chance and nerfing twilight adept (5% down from 10%) would solve a lot of problems.
And yea people should stop being so hostile to one another, it's just a game, relax.
even speccing for stamina i can dodge only 4 times since our heroic feat (swift foot work) does not work. otherwise (if a fix will ever happen ) 5.
Hey. I cant stop laughing at the people defending TRs. Its clear to me who they are.
If one class cant counter a TR 1v1 with skill, then the class is OP. every class should have a counter and if TR stealth remains thats the only class that still cant be beaten 1v1. 5 dodges is still too much
IMO tr stealth should completly deplete after you attack someone and you should have infinite stealth until you do. This is how the rogue class usually works in MMOs, but i guess the 2 second reveal will do for now. TRs will still mostly wreck anything 1v1, but hopefully when they are outplayed they will lose that 1v1.
Also even after this change they will survive longer 2v1 then any other class. + wreck anything 1v1. So all your leaderboard *****s arguments are invalid. TRS NEED DAMAGE NERF + STEALTH REVEAL.
Hey. I cant stop laughing at the people defending TRs. Its clear to me who they are.
If one class cant counter a TR 1v1 with skill, then the class is OP. every class should have a counter and if TR stealth remains thats the only class that still cant be beaten 1v1. 5 dodges is still too much
IMO tr stealth should completly deplete after you attack someone and you should have infinite stealth until you do. This is how the rogue class usually works in MMOs, but i guess the 2 second reveal will do for now. TRs will still mostly wreck anything 1v1, but hopefully when they are outplayed they will lose that 1v1.
Also even after this change they will survive longer 2v1 then any other class. + wreck anything 1v1. So all your leaderboard *****s arguments are invalid. TRS NEED DAMAGE NERF + STEALTH REVEAL.
A certain sense of relief when someone speaks your mind..
that also goes for orthzy,isuuck2 and pando.
You guys keep doing the talking , i'll be the +1 on you, representing the "Legit" 10% of the TRs, that actually carry something between their legs...
A certain sense of relief when someone speaks your mind..
that also goes for orthzy,isuuck2 and pando.
You guys keep doing the talking , i'll be the +1 on you, representing the "Legit" 10% of the TRs, that actually carry something between their legs...
My deepest respect for you. Although, I'm afraid you're just 1% of the TR community judging from threads like this. But then again, calling it TR community would be disrespectful. Most ppl crying here only play TR because it's the OP class at the moment.
ok i see the point from both of u as i said in a response a few pages theres hardly any class or player can hold a tr 1v1, which is indeed unbalanced. all we needed was a dmg buff not even piercing cos that needs to be taken away from the pvp, on hrs also. im happy to go back to mod 4 meta as im so used to hold my breath on the node with all the broken feat from all classes. give us abit of more dmg buff or even overload slot in profound gear, so the tr has the guts to fight back is already an improvement. instead of making minor changes and test with players, they went ahead made a new class out of it with more broken ****. im starting to think devs either hardly care about balances or they just have no clue about how to balance 7 classes, but we re not here to critizise but provide feedback and help the devs making right desicions. but creating FOTM trend is clearly not a good idea.
I think the devs buffed rolls and deflect cause they really wanted to limit stealth a bit. So pretty much their aim was to give less stealth and more tools to survive out of stealth.
Truth is, players discovered how to keep their mod4 stealth while taking advantage of the other buffs.
It's ok if a path with less stealth gets the roll buffs and deflect buffs.
The path that can use permastealth/ semiperma stealth, on the other hand, should have regular 3 rolls and same deflect chance as old module 4 TR.
DPS buff was needed indeed. Drow sets will come with overload slots for red glyphs and this is a issue if you ask me, cause on HRs CWs, TRs, they are quite powerful and literally melt people. I'd still go for ICD and if needed buff specific class features to boost DPS where needed.
Back to TR, they need either perma stealth or rolls/deflect buffs. Can't have both together or you have what we see now.
DPS-wise, apart from unintended one-shot dailies and few tweaks here and there, i think TRs are where they are supposed to be now. They must hit hard, they are assassins and must be a threat when it comes to damage.
Don't like one bit the intimidation build on GWFs instead. It's pure nonsense and hope the devs will come with something better in the future. They started buffing destroyers. Now just need to get rid of inti damage and shift sentinels over tankiness/ survivability, and then buff instigator survivability to make it a true hybrid tank/DPS (right now it's squishier than destroyers that at least have determination gain buff on capstone...).
I hope the damage reduction is ONLY for pvp and we don't become useless in PVE once again because of other classes complaining and asking for nerfs.
I hope it's for neither actually as there was a point for a period of time I felt like I had a ">KIK ME<" sign on my back as people falsely blamed the TR whenever a dungeon or match failed.
I've done some weird stuff like finished Pirate King with just my TR self, an HR, and a CW. We've taken an ALL ROGUE team through dungeons before in my guild. There's been Karrundax run with three GFs.
It's never one class when it comes to a "fail". It's a lack of teamwork with the classes available. You don't have to be able to solo all PvE or PvP to be "useful" as a character or class.
" I tried to figure out the enigma that was you, and then I realized mastering Wild Magic was easier." - Old Wizard in Waterdeep
"Why is it dragons only use ketchup? I'd like a little wasabi please. Us silvers like a variety of condiments."
"Don't call them foolish mortals. One, they don't learn from it. Two, It just ticks them off." - An Ancient Red Dragon
Hey. I cant stop laughing at the people defending TRs. Its clear to me who they are.
If one class cant counter a TR 1v1 with skill, then the class is OP. every class should have a counter and if TR stealth remains thats the only class that still cant be beaten 1v1. 5 dodges is still too much
IMO tr stealth should completly deplete after you attack someone and you should have infinite stealth until you do. This is how the rogue class usually works in MMOs, but i guess the 2 second reveal will do for now. TRs will still mostly wreck anything 1v1, but hopefully when they are outplayed they will lose that 1v1.
Also even after this change they will survive longer 2v1 then any other class. + wreck anything 1v1. So all your leaderboard *****s arguments are invalid. TRS NEED DAMAGE NERF + STEALTH REVEAL.
you played tr in mod 4 and couldnt kill anything
thats why you hate them
if tr could beat cw in mod 4 that was pure skill coz u had time for 2 df and one had to land to make a kill.
in mod 4 actualy forgot my weapon enchant and did full df from stealth on bis gwf
u know what happened he didnt even dismount
with glyphs dmg was ok until dmg nerf which hit only tr
but survival worst then any class in game.
no clue why they did that after they took out necrotic...
TR did need a dmg buff, but when you put that buff with cleric artifact and glyphs it just gets too much.
A more than true reply on a previous true statement.
Use a lets say.. 1black n' 1 red glyph + Perfect Vorpal + Sigil of the Devoted.
That is called a "one man show". (not to mention all the bugs and other abuses you can add to that)
The path that can use permastealth/ semiperma stealth, on the other hand, should have regular 3 rolls and same deflect chance as old module 4 TR
They get the extra roll that's all - no great deflect, no great defence, no CW immunity, so basically defence wise they are the same as the mod4 one's. It's the out of stealth one that gets dazes/deflect - so sorry but I don't see how this is relevant other than perma's will now get hit in that 2 seconds. Lose their stealth, hence lose their damage - be unable to regenerate stealth until they have 3 seconds of not taking damage. So this one change really does effect the whole of the TR's builds - it not really just about being seen, or not seen. The trouble is that the whole of the TR feats/at wills/encounters all work off the TAB. Hence kill the TAB function and everything else falls apart. That's the silly thing.
Take the 100%Crit thing - is should be 100%crit when not in stealth, then TR has reason to try and stay out of stealth for as long as possible. As I said the reason TR's are unhappy about this change is not the "we now get seen" thing. It's the "all of my functions now don't work" or not as well.
It been said already - but if stealth TR is visible then things like damage wipes out stealth bar, stop stealth regenerating, at wills draining stealth need to stop.
But what will happen is people will just keep complaining and complaining because they don't want a balanced game. They just want easy kills and easy op classes.
Every PVP game I have had with a daze/defect TR has had a CW massing most kills and best kill/death ratio's. Each 20 person PVP I have played each day normally has CW top of score/list with most kills. I am not complaining - it the way they are built, and the way their functions work.
But people do need to be reasonable with TR changes and perhaps change one thing at a time and see how it all pans out.
I just read a person asking for TR's to be change who expressed their opinion why and obviously knows that TR have at least four encounters to use because he quoted the four being used by one TR in one fight which he lost.
Anyway - it's going to go live so we will all see, but personally I suspect you are now going to see lots of deflect/daze TR's, and lots of one shot wonders in PVP. Enjoy
you played tr in mod 4 and couldnt kill anything
thats why you hate them
if tr could beat cw in mod 4 that was pure skill coz u had time for 2 df and one had to land to make a kill.
in mod 4 actualy forgot my weapon enchant and did full df from stealth on bis gwf
u know what happened he didnt even dismount
with glyphs dmg was ok until dmg nerf which hit only tr
but survival worst then any class in game.
I have actual proof that trs where viable on 1v1 in mod.4 chance vs cw was 50-50 and yes it required skill.
Gwf's where a piece of cake against a tr that is trained against them and doesn't play mod.0 perma tactics.
Survivability on tr, is, was and will always be ENORMOUS. (a quick look on what each ability point offers to a TR will convince you on that not to add the 75% deflection severity that can be 85% with a potion and a good use of your stealth.
Here is some 1v1 from mod.4 against worthy opponents: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzBEV2aEsxc&list=UUf8kDcUC7iz-w7rHlfRk4xQ
For those that bother to have a look last vs is against a perma TR OFF PAD. Proof, that practice, visuals and sound make it easy to spot a Perma TR.
On mod.5 issues.
I made a video with some 1v1 just to post some truth out there instead of just opinions.
PvP is broken and filled with abuse.Keep a mind on chat and what goes on in the background also. Many broken things are in here and yet there are even more out there. Yes like X-files.
Thanks in advance for any thoughts you like to share.
Made with total respect to those appearing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-0EsvJ-kOQ
Quite wrong. TRs were node holders exactly cause they were quite survivable despite the lack of DPS.
TRs themselves already stated how TRs ability to hold nodes was their only strenght in module 4.
The midgy videos i linked show how he could survive more than a sentinel GWF "supposed tank" (Sobek).
And the reason is: stealth.
Combined with ITC and rolls and mobility.
It doesn't matter if TRs "base" tankiness is low (it's not that low, can get up to 45k+ HPs, 30% DR and quite high deflection at least). Cause the ability to avoid damage completely or slip away into stealth beats any DR or tank build.
Proof is, in the midgy video posted,
he jumps on mid when it's full of enemies--->can get away alive
Sobek jumps on mid the same way--->dead in the blink of an eye
TRs survivability is top notch. And has always been except for the Roar spam era.
BTW, it's a fact that TRs were used as node holders/ enemy base harrassers in past modules, even before mod5 buffs.
Which goes quite against your statement.
all wrong non of you ever played a tr in mod 4.
i was watching sicarius twich and he had huge problems against cw
even gwf if he was full hp
single mistake in rotation instant death or even if 2 came on cap tr had to go
RUNNING ON CAP DOING NOTHING IS NOT PVP
i dont caunt that dinter or nanners vid alho they are very good trs its anti tr stuff worst game scenario for tr
pvp is fighting on cap not avoiding fight at all cost
On mod.5 issues.
I made a video with some 1v1 just to post some truth out there instead of just opinions.
PvP is broken and filled with abuse.Keep a mind on chat and what goes on in the background also. Many broken things are in here and yet there are even more out there. Yes like X-files.
Thanks in advance for any thoughts you like to share.
Made with total respect to those appearing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-0EsvJ-kOQ
i'm not surprised with the vs gwf one since glyphs were used. 1st wizard almost won with storm spell procs right from the start but couldn't finish it and the 2nd wizard did practically nothing even though i saw a storm spell proc. vs guardian went as expected since they are at a disadvantage. dps cleric won which is also normal due to their own ridiculous damage.
even with no glyphs gwf's can't do it. it's not a matter of dmg. tr's rotation plus a gazillion rolls leave no window open there. i could keep dodging that rotation to eternity. only by a misplay i can get caught and even then deflect (50-50 chance) and get going. just look how easy it is to keep dodging till cooldown and repeat rotation till he is dead
I have actual proof that trs where viable on 1v1 in mod.4 chance vs cw was 50-50 and yes it required skill.
Gwf's where a piece of cake against a tr that is trained against them and doesn't play mod.0 perma tactics.
Survivability on tr, is, was and will always be ENORMOUS. (a quick look on what each ability point offers to a TR will convince you on that not to add the 75% deflection severity that can be 85% with a potion and a good use of your stealth.
Here is some 1v1 from mod.4 against worthy opponents: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzBEV2aEsxc&list=UUf8kDcUC7iz-w7rHlfRk4xQ
For those that bother to have a look last vs is against a perma TR OFF PAD. Proof, that practice, visuals and sound make it easy to spot a Perma TR.
On mod.5 issues.
I made a video with some 1v1 just to post some truth out there instead of just opinions.
PvP is broken and filled with abuse.Keep a mind on chat and what goes on in the background also. Many broken things are in here and yet there are even more out there. Yes like X-files.
Thanks in advance for any thoughts you like to share.
Made with total respect to those appearing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-0EsvJ-kOQ
ahahahah sorry for the laugh ahahahah im just figuring out the class people will complain about after TR... i got my answer xD
Preview testers said nerf isn't enough. Nerf it more) I want more tears here)
As someone said, sometimes the bull***t meter goes red when it comes to defending TRs.
When that happens ,even if i stand against PvPing on forums instead of in game, the only adequate reply is "Pimp" comments.
Comments
but if you make it 1 sec it will be useless, since is the dodge time, 1.5 is the stun plus dodge. I think 2 sec is a good number.
even speccing for stamina i can dodge only 4 times since our heroic feat (swift foot work) does not work. otherwise (if a fix will ever happen ) 5.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
If one class cant counter a TR 1v1 with skill, then the class is OP. every class should have a counter and if TR stealth remains thats the only class that still cant be beaten 1v1. 5 dodges is still too much
IMO tr stealth should completly deplete after you attack someone and you should have infinite stealth until you do. This is how the rogue class usually works in MMOs, but i guess the 2 second reveal will do for now. TRs will still mostly wreck anything 1v1, but hopefully when they are outplayed they will lose that 1v1.
Also even after this change they will survive longer 2v1 then any other class. + wreck anything 1v1. So all your leaderboard *****s arguments are invalid. TRS NEED DAMAGE NERF + STEALTH REVEAL.
but you are never rolling one after the over, u take a hit after a roll... so called it 5 and a half?
A certain sense of relief when someone speaks your mind..
that also goes for orthzy,isuuck2 and pando.
You guys keep doing the talking , i'll be the +1 on you, representing the "Legit" 10% of the TRs, that actually carry something between their legs...
My deepest respect for you. Although, I'm afraid you're just 1% of the TR community judging from threads like this. But then again, calling it TR community would be disrespectful. Most ppl crying here only play TR because it's the OP class at the moment.
I think the devs buffed rolls and deflect cause they really wanted to limit stealth a bit. So pretty much their aim was to give less stealth and more tools to survive out of stealth.
Truth is, players discovered how to keep their mod4 stealth while taking advantage of the other buffs.
It's ok if a path with less stealth gets the roll buffs and deflect buffs.
The path that can use permastealth/ semiperma stealth, on the other hand, should have regular 3 rolls and same deflect chance as old module 4 TR.
DPS buff was needed indeed. Drow sets will come with overload slots for red glyphs and this is a issue if you ask me, cause on HRs CWs, TRs, they are quite powerful and literally melt people. I'd still go for ICD and if needed buff specific class features to boost DPS where needed.
Back to TR, they need either perma stealth or rolls/deflect buffs. Can't have both together or you have what we see now.
DPS-wise, apart from unintended one-shot dailies and few tweaks here and there, i think TRs are where they are supposed to be now. They must hit hard, they are assassins and must be a threat when it comes to damage.
Don't like one bit the intimidation build on GWFs instead. It's pure nonsense and hope the devs will come with something better in the future. They started buffing destroyers. Now just need to get rid of inti damage and shift sentinels over tankiness/ survivability, and then buff instigator survivability to make it a true hybrid tank/DPS (right now it's squishier than destroyers that at least have determination gain buff on capstone...).
All the devs needed to do is to delete piercing damage from the game completely. It destroys PvP and doesn't affect PvE the slightest.
Couldn't agree more.
no clue why they did that after they took out necrotic...
TR did need a dmg buff, but when you put that buff with cleric artifact and glyphs it just gets too much.
I hope it's for neither actually as there was a point for a period of time I felt like I had a ">KIK ME<" sign on my back as people falsely blamed the TR whenever a dungeon or match failed.
I've done some weird stuff like finished Pirate King with just my TR self, an HR, and a CW. We've taken an ALL ROGUE team through dungeons before in my guild. There's been Karrundax run with three GFs.
It's never one class when it comes to a "fail". It's a lack of teamwork with the classes available. You don't have to be able to solo all PvE or PvP to be "useful" as a character or class.
"Why is it dragons only use ketchup? I'd like a little wasabi please. Us silvers like a variety of condiments."
"Don't call them foolish mortals. One, they don't learn from it. Two, It just ticks them off." - An Ancient Red Dragon
you played tr in mod 4 and couldnt kill anything
thats why you hate them
if tr could beat cw in mod 4 that was pure skill coz u had time for 2 df and one had to land to make a kill.
in mod 4 actualy forgot my weapon enchant and did full df from stealth on bis gwf
u know what happened he didnt even dismount
with glyphs dmg was ok until dmg nerf which hit only tr
but survival worst then any class in game.
Use a lets say.. 1black n' 1 red glyph + Perfect Vorpal + Sigil of the Devoted.
That is called a "one man show". (not to mention all the bugs and other abuses you can add to that)
the bullsh*t meter just got full again. TR did NOT had the worst survivability on mod4
They get the extra roll that's all - no great deflect, no great defence, no CW immunity, so basically defence wise they are the same as the mod4 one's. It's the out of stealth one that gets dazes/deflect - so sorry but I don't see how this is relevant other than perma's will now get hit in that 2 seconds. Lose their stealth, hence lose their damage - be unable to regenerate stealth until they have 3 seconds of not taking damage. So this one change really does effect the whole of the TR's builds - it not really just about being seen, or not seen. The trouble is that the whole of the TR feats/at wills/encounters all work off the TAB. Hence kill the TAB function and everything else falls apart. That's the silly thing.
Take the 100%Crit thing - is should be 100%crit when not in stealth, then TR has reason to try and stay out of stealth for as long as possible. As I said the reason TR's are unhappy about this change is not the "we now get seen" thing. It's the "all of my functions now don't work" or not as well.
It been said already - but if stealth TR is visible then things like damage wipes out stealth bar, stop stealth regenerating, at wills draining stealth need to stop.
But what will happen is people will just keep complaining and complaining because they don't want a balanced game. They just want easy kills and easy op classes.
Every PVP game I have had with a daze/defect TR has had a CW massing most kills and best kill/death ratio's. Each 20 person PVP I have played each day normally has CW top of score/list with most kills. I am not complaining - it the way they are built, and the way their functions work.
But people do need to be reasonable with TR changes and perhaps change one thing at a time and see how it all pans out.
I just read a person asking for TR's to be change who expressed their opinion why and obviously knows that TR have at least four encounters to use because he quoted the four being used by one TR in one fight which he lost.
Anyway - it's going to go live so we will all see, but personally I suspect you are now going to see lots of deflect/daze TR's, and lots of one shot wonders in PVP. Enjoy
All the best
Matthew
I have actual proof that trs where viable on 1v1 in mod.4 chance vs cw was 50-50 and yes it required skill.
Gwf's where a piece of cake against a tr that is trained against them and doesn't play mod.0 perma tactics.
Survivability on tr, is, was and will always be ENORMOUS. (a quick look on what each ability point offers to a TR will convince you on that not to add the 75% deflection severity that can be 85% with a potion and a good use of your stealth.
Here is some 1v1 from mod.4 against worthy opponents: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzBEV2aEsxc&list=UUf8kDcUC7iz-w7rHlfRk4xQ
For those that bother to have a look last vs is against a perma TR OFF PAD. Proof, that practice, visuals and sound make it easy to spot a Perma TR.
On mod.5 issues.
I made a video with some 1v1 just to post some truth out there instead of just opinions.
PvP is broken and filled with abuse.Keep a mind on chat and what goes on in the background also. Many broken things are in here and yet there are even more out there. Yes like X-files.
Thanks in advance for any thoughts you like to share.
Made with total respect to those appearing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-0EsvJ-kOQ
Quite wrong. TRs were node holders exactly cause they were quite survivable despite the lack of DPS.
TRs themselves already stated how TRs ability to hold nodes was their only strenght in module 4.
The midgy videos i linked show how he could survive more than a sentinel GWF "supposed tank" (Sobek).
And the reason is: stealth.
Combined with ITC and rolls and mobility.
It doesn't matter if TRs "base" tankiness is low (it's not that low, can get up to 45k+ HPs, 30% DR and quite high deflection at least). Cause the ability to avoid damage completely or slip away into stealth beats any DR or tank build.
Proof is, in the midgy video posted,
he jumps on mid when it's full of enemies--->can get away alive
Sobek jumps on mid the same way--->dead in the blink of an eye
TRs survivability is top notch. And has always been except for the Roar spam era.
BTW, it's a fact that TRs were used as node holders/ enemy base harrassers in past modules, even before mod5 buffs.
Which goes quite against your statement.
i was watching sicarius twich and he had huge problems against cw
even gwf if he was full hp
single mistake in rotation instant death or even if 2 came on cap tr had to go
RUNNING ON CAP DOING NOTHING IS NOT PVP
i dont caunt that dinter or nanners vid alho they are very good trs its anti tr stuff worst game scenario for tr
pvp is fighting on cap not avoiding fight at all cost
i'm not surprised with the vs gwf one since glyphs were used. 1st wizard almost won with storm spell procs right from the start but couldn't finish it and the 2nd wizard did practically nothing even though i saw a storm spell proc. vs guardian went as expected since they are at a disadvantage. dps cleric won which is also normal due to their own ridiculous damage.
SW with the right feats has almost unlimited Shift.
CW with the right feats has almost unlimited Teleport.
GWF with the right feats has almost unlimited Run.
Seriously, if TR dodges are causing you problems you have big issues with how you play.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
ahahahah sorry for the laugh ahahahah im just figuring out the class people will complain about after TR... i got my answer xD
so holding/contesting a point is not pvp
lol we all know who the biggest bleeder is in the pvp community. thats why he has a mighty kdr!
When that happens ,even if i stand against PvPing on forums instead of in game, the only adequate reply is "Pimp" comments.
Keep on pimping them romanporter!
I stand beside you on this!