1) TRs only need a "Daily" damage nerf. Basically all dailies should respect DR/Tenacity (IMO ALL damage should do this and its stupid when they try and bypass stuff like that)
2) I like the stealth reveal but 2 seconds is FAR too long. Its needs to be like .5 seconds if that.
- OR IMO id rather just have the distance at which you can see a TR increased slightly INSTEAD of a reveal. Id honestly be in favor of around a 30' stealth detect in FRONT of someone (a little more than half a node) and the "behind" can stay the same as it is now with them not being seen.
If you REALLY want to go "stealth reveal" then it should only last about 1 second and ONLY reveal if the TR is in FRONT of you and attacks you. If a TR hits you from behind you should NOT see it.
I contributed. And I further contributed in the thread.
For the third time, I'm NOT complaining about the lack of people who voted. I guess I'm not surprised you're struggling with reading comprehension.
It's not "opinion" when you've made generalizations about what people think based on your poll. I guess you're also struggling with the definition of "opinion."
Anyway, the thread has digressed enough.
It's is a generalization, people have voted, I've reflected on the results, your right, I'm not seeing your point!
Well, I'm still waiting for I am to circumnavigate all the main points of my argument and question me on things I've answered multiple tmes already with his untested theories, the discussion should start up once he contributes
So basically you don't want tr's roll to change in pvp were people are forced to 1v2 them? The way i see it, if you can kill another class in a 1v1 they should be able to kill you in a 1v1 also(without adding in gear and skills). Like sayd faithful and virtuoso dcs that can't kill another class it is ok for them not to be able to die in a 1v1 and hence requiring a 2v1. Their dc spec can kill someone and about every class can kill the dc 1v1. Each tr path offers something unique and some times requires a class to use a different build to fight a certain build which is ok. But as long as any of the tr trees can kill a class 1v1 then they should be able to die to another class 1v1. You are forgetting that if you are in danger you will have to lecturing of just not attacking until healing depression debuff goes off and you start healing for your full regen. also search for a tr in stealth is a lot hard not because of gloaming cut and dazing strike or other dazings.
p.s scoundrel dazes need to respect cc immunity. so does terrifying impact.
0
josiahiyonMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 396Arc User
There really can't be a damage reduction for PvE effectiveness.
I reiterate: this is incorrect. The developers have been making separate PVP interactions now for the past several mods. Lets work on the assumption that they can make it work here as well. This of course ignores the fact that a properly specced PVE TR on live can consistently deal the most damage in Tiamat (source: ACT), so a nerf to TR PVE damage could be justified. That's not my fight though.
Players can counter Stealth. They can't counter 1-shotting unmitigatable, unavoidable (dazed) damage every 15 seconds. The problem is damage, not stealth.
Hi all, I don't post often but this is an important matter so i thought i'd drop my two cents in here..
What I feel :
>Shocking Execution needs a NERF. Either via reduction of the crit feat in sab tree or base damage. All you hear is SE in pvp. It's wrong and all these cookie sab tr's with 13-15k are one shotting everything. It is by far the biggest complaint.
>Piercing Damage is way over scaled. The fact that it affects BloodBath (again via sab crit feat) so Drastically is absurd. Remove it or scale it WAY down.
>Stealth Reveal ... I'm almost speechless this was considered instead of the above options. We don't need this. It's the CRIT Feat absurdity causing sabos in stealth dealing huge amounts of pain ... Sabo is STEALTH not DAMAGE that's what Exec is for. Fix this and TR goes back to normal.
>Scoundrel Stuns need to be reduced on players and maintained on npcs. All other stuns like this in the game are scaled back vs players.
So basically you don't want tr's roll to change in pvp were people are forced to 1v2 them? The way i see it, if you can kill another class in a 1v1 they should be able to kill you in a 1v1 also(without adding in gear and skills). Like sayd faithful and virtuoso dcs that can't kill another class it is ok for them not to be able to die in a 1v1 and hence requiring a 2v1. Their dc spec can kill someone and about every class can kill the dc 1v1. Each tr path offers something unique and some times requires a class to use a different build to fight a certain build which is ok. But as long as any of the tr trees can kill a class 1v1 then they should be able to die to another class 1v1. You are forgetting that if you are in danger you will have to lecturing of just not attacking until healing depression debuff goes off and you start healing for your full regen. also search for a tr in stealth is a lot hard not because of gloaming cut and dazing strike or other dazings.
p.s scoundrel dazes need to respect cc immunity. so does terrifying impact.
I never said that the TR need to win 100% of the time, I just want a scenario in which I can outskill people, with the stealth reveal, none exist.
as I stated before, the only reason TR is ever brough to a premade is to hold 1v2 for a decent amount of time, or this happens
A GWF will have more damage and the ability to run
A GF will benefit the team 100% more
A DC will benefit the team 100% more
A HR can stand on its own and will regain its near top of the game 1v1 Status
A CW Can benefit the team a hell of a lot more with combing CC and 1 shot capabilities *Not saying they need to be removed*
And tr is never taken to a premade
As for the Scoundrel dazes, yes they need to, as for terrifying impact, I disagree.
I think PART of the issue with TR being the node holder is the entire way domination is played.
If the game was anything BUT this "domination" where you can completely NEGATE the enemy earning any points on that node by just standing in it. Thats where you bump into issues with players who instead of fighting, try and just turtle the node.
If you removed contesting. TRs wouldnt be an issue if they could perma around all day long because contesting would mean NOTHING. It would all be based on their ability to kill.
So what are the options?
Change TR or change the game.
Change the TR:
Again. ALL TR abilities should respect DR/Tenacity. This would fix blood bath and SE.
Second, make the "TR visibility" ONLY happen when your facing the TR. This can either be the visibility AFTER hit, or something like increased stealth detection - while you are facing the TR.
Change the Game:
Option 1) remove contesting. Whoever owns the node, owns the node.
Option 2) reduce the effects of contesting. Instead of NOT ticking for points when "contested" reduce the point ticks to 1 every 3 seconds (down from 1 every second the node is NOT contested). This also removes the "perma idea" however still lends SOME ability to slow down points overall. This wouldnt create "urgency" to clear the TR at home who is backcontesting though since your still earning points.
option 3) Turn the game into a focus on Kills with a "bonus" per node capped. This again diminishes the focus on "contesting". You earn points per kills/assists and get BONUS points when you kill with 1 or 2 nodes "owned".
All three are easily viable and would remove the "TR Contestor" without having to nerf the TR all that much. The TR SHOULD be ideal at 1v1 if he gets the jump. However its turned into a PVP game of "who can stall the longest" which has made the Perma TR the most effective.
Change the TR:
Again. ALL TR abilities should respect DR/Tenacity. This would fix blood bath and SE.
Almost agree with you, except that Bloodbath does not ignore DR/Tenacity, and that it's only an issue when used in conjunction with Shadowy Opportunity. I do however believe that SO needs to be nerfed hard (dividing its effect by even 5 would still make it viable) or swapped with something else.
0
dragoness10Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 780Arc User
edited December 2014
Click on me to Inspect anytime ya like.... just click discreetly.
Also something that BUGS me is "perma stealth". It is NOT that otherwise TRs would never die. You'd never need push TAB as a TR as you are "perma stealth". Admittedly it'd make it hard to RP (roleplay) with a TR as it'd be like trying to chat up the Invisible Man, or the air.
First, let Iyon defend himself, I see him posting once in a while in this thread. And I'll tell you as I told him back during the Test Shard, I don't use dragon glyphs in PvP, simply because they're cheesy and ungraceful. Plus, tell him to duel some proper CW's like "In the Library" from Exodus, some proper GWF like Etherion from EoA, and any TR.
So did this fight happen or is it happening even?
0
josiahiyonMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 396Arc User
If someone wants to test some stuff out on ptr, I'd be glad to test as well. Not big on the epeen 1v1 competition, but testing stuff is fun. Win some, lose some, adjust and have fun.
again ppl making videos trying to prove a void point. u were up against one of the top 3 trs on server and im not gonna go into ur rotations and stuff.
i can also post my videos just to show u how much assaliant procd along with glyphs and one shot u had before it gets toned down in mod4.
no tr has ever posted video about "cw is op nerf it!" cos there were simply less than a handful of high end tr left in the game. but u do remember how confident u were when u came to tr node cos u knew theres no threat.
now the table has turned, tr can go full aggressive on a cw with confidence cos they know they can daze u and deliver a finishing blow.
ITS NEVER A PROBLEM WITH STEALTH. ITS THE NEW DMG. do u begin to see the picture?
we cld perma forever in pevious modules ppl qq less cos all the tr had to do was to survive u. thats all. now with the rediculous dmg u need 2 ppl to hold us, because we can clear any class 1v1 (except a healing dc or protector gf) effectively with this dmg!
the number of tr players doubled in mod5 because every newbie with low GS /old players who main other classes can just one shot ppl.
as i have stated repeatly its the immence dmg and 100% crit thats causing the trouble, not stealth. touching the fundamental clas feature will not solve perma problem or one shot problem. it will simply destroy the class.
rework sab tree, nerf the dmg in a way it doesnt hurt exe tree in pve and remove 100% crit in stealth.
not stealth reveal.
One last thing i just did more testing on preview, casting ss from stealth reveal the tr from the begining of the animation, u can see where its from and immdiately when it lands u can continue to see the tr for 2 second. so tell me whats the point to have the tab skill? its the same with impact shot, in wk path, vengence persuit. feat: scoundrel training "ur at will deal 9% dmg to enemy not targetting u" so if i attack this feat is meaningless.
stealth reveal on hit will only create more issues and unbalances, the tr overhaul in mod5 was already a step in a wrong direction.
all we needed was a bit of dmg buff to have a chance to fight not just a circle runner or perhaps overload slots in profound gear, but instead, u went over board changed the class completly.
pls take ur time and consider a realistic way to balance the current pvp drama and make small changes at a time and test with us players.
20% nerfed of SE....don't make me laugh, TR don't need nerf- TR need HUGE nerf.
exactly that moment when he is out of stealth, he uses ITC, thats what it needs to be nerfed so that it will be a 1vs1 chance for both to kill eachother. simple !
again ppl making videos trying to prove a void point. u were up against one of the top 3 trs on server and im not gonna go into ur rotations and stuff.
i can also post my videos just to show u how much assaliant procd along with glyphs and one shot u had before it gets toned down in mod4.
no tr has ever posted video about "cw is op nerf it!" cos there were simply less than a handful of high end tr left in the game. but u do remember how confident u were when u came to tr node cos u knew theres no threat.
now the table has turned, tr can go full aggressive on a cw with confidence cos they know they can daze u and deliver a finishing blow.
ITS NEVER A PROBLEM WITH STEALTH. ITS THE NEW DMG. do u begin to see the picture?
we cld perma forever in pevious modules ppl qq less cos all the tr had to do was to survive u. thats all. now with the rediculous dmg u need 2 ppl to hold us, because we can clear any class 1v1 (except a healing dc or protector gf) effectively with this dmg!
the number of tr players doubled in mod5 because every newbie with low GS /old players who main other classes can just one shot ppl.
as i have stated repeatly its the immence dmg and 100% crit thats causing the trouble, not stealth. touching the fundamental clas feature will not solve perma problem or one shot problem. it will simply destroy the class.
rework sab tree, nerf the dmg in a way it doesnt hurt exe tree in pve and remove 100% crit in stealth.
not stealth reveal.
One last thing i just did more testing on preview, casting ss from stealth reveal the tr from the begining of the animation, u can see where its from and immdiately when it lands u can continue to see the tr for 2 second. so tell me whats the point to have the tab skill? its the same with impact shot, in wk path, vengence persuit. feat: scoundrel training "ur at will deal 9% dmg to enemy not targetting u" so if i attack this feat is meaningless.
stealth reveal on hit will only create more issues and unbalances, the tr overhaul in mod5 was already a step in a wrong direction.
all we needed was a bit of dmg buff to have a chance to fight not just a circle runner or perhaps overload slots in profound gear, but instead, u went over board changed the class completly.
pls take ur time and consider a realistic way to balance the current pvp drama and make small changes at a time and test with us players.
I can see you like your way to be OP class
So....
-I made video, and no matter which TR he is becouse i have almost endgame eq too and you know that so don't tell nonsense becouse i have no single chance to fight against PTR
-CW was op- Good joke- assaliant was fixed one week after mod4- CW was never op he was always crushed by GWFs and HRs. Apart from the fact that in module 4 were many classes op like Super Lifesteal HRs or Deflection GFs- why you posted so stupid argument- it was really fast fixed so in my opinion is one big bull**** from you.
-no tr has ever posted video about "cw is op nerf it!- Are you sure? there was a lot of threads on forum, probably from Trs too, and i know that assaliant was OP but like i said earlier- it was fixed after one week.
- In previous mode- PTR and CW could fight an equal fight everyone know that only HRs stay unbalanced and now they are also eaten alive by TRs
-One last thing- I have skills- and i can't land it on you becouse my casting time is to long and even if skill is used, you are still in stealth, so what is point in in fighting with you if i can't even hit you and you can all time hit me with huge dmg and even if you are out of stealt you have ITC and 4 dodges etc?
I lack words for you
This isn't even funny anymore.
From the video, it looked like Sobek used target lock to me, but if you guys say it's not the case, i'll trust you.
A valid point remains: 1 GWF needed tons of training vs BiS TRs to learn how to predict their movements. I have no problem saying i practiced too in PvP against permas but i am not at that level of prediction against BiS players. Can do it only against more "predictable" players. But from videos i've seen that GWF is the first and only one that seems to have no problems spotting permas. Would be interesting to see how he is doing it in module 5, lots to learn from him for sure.
For a TR that training is not needed, or needed to a much lesser degree. What Sobek does in those videos is pretty much 99% skills if as you guys say it's not target lock.
What a TR does is still proactive and involves some skills, but evading players from stealth with 4 long rolls and immunities is far easier.
So it's the same matter, you have 1 class that must be super-geared and super-experienced to hope to fight against another class.
Not to mention the survivability is quite lower on Sobek than on midgy, which means a DPS assassin is more survivable than a tank warrior.
I'm not interested in destroying TRs. I found duels with permas funny before module 5 and i stated multiple times here on forums how it was a skill battle between me predicting their movements and their ability to evade. The module 5 changes destroyed the balance.
I know very well how a class feature can become useless (GWF unstoppable double nerf in module 4). But high DPS+high mobility+permastealth/ semi-perma stealth is a bit too much.
You need to either limit stealth OR revert mobility back to module 4 (shorter rolls, 3 rolls) on Saboteurs. I don't care how devs reach the goal, just hope they find a balance.
As ortzhy said if you just lower damage and leave mobility-stealth combo as it is, all you'll obtain is a 3-4 seconds delay before the enemy eventually dies. There must be a clear window of opportunity to counterattack against a TR, cause it's like that for every other class.
GWF: prone lock/ CC lock in between unstoppable.
GF: circle and get behind shield block.
CW: once their rotation is over, they must evade through teleport and tank through shield
HR: lots of mobility, 5 dodges, but once their rotations are over they can be CCed and brurst down
SW: same as CW but with zoom
DC: CC chain in between empowered astral shields to prevent them from using at-wills to gain divine power. Needs tone down btw in DPS and a bit in survivability too.
TR: try and figure out where i am somewhere, in stealth. Practice tons of hours to do that flawlessly or die without being able to fight back.
That's quite a huge difference in, let's say, learning curve? You don't have a window of opportunity to counterattack. You pretty much train like a beast to create a small, tiny window of opportunity. That's not balance from my point of view.
@ Ayroux:
I was thinking about domination. Games were longer and more fun when tenacity was first introduced. But too long (1 hour and half balanced games, too long).
Increasing DPS speed things up, but at a huge cost (PvP sucks now).
My suggestion: increase respawn times. Longer fights, more tactical and balanced as it was when tenacity was first introduced. But once you die, it takes, let's say, 20 seconds flat time to respawn. During that time, the winner earns points, then you respawn and fight again. If you win, it's 20 seconds for you before the enemy can respawn. Faster games, longer, more "intense" fights.
Can limit a lot the "rush to nodes avoiding fights" tactic.
I'm not even gonna get into an arguement with u Obsydian666 but clearly butthurt ppl will always whine till the burned area cooled down. everytime i ran into u, either in a premade or pug match, i just cldnt help over hearing ur "cant wait to see the tr gets nerfed" u cry too much, the fact that tr has been underdog for so long with all the broken feats from every class and glyph bull****, iv endured the whole mod and learned how to be patient and do my best to survive for the team. u didnt see me qq on forum or cry everytime i ran into a cw hr or whatever, pretty much every class except dc and undergeared sw cld one shot me. this is my first time actually public my thoughts and feedback for a post bacause its an important matter for my class. its not a feat or dmg change, this 2 sec reveal will most likely change my role in pvp and out perform other classes in certain aspects.
whats interesting is u keep saying tr is op but fail to understand whats causing the trouble. ur signiture says it all that u are a typical qqer who doesnt even bother to examine the root of the problem, so let me break it down for u one more time: the combination of stealth and rediculous dmg that packed in 1 tree.
my arguement in every resonse is not i wanna win in every 1v1 but balance. i already agreed the piercing dmg plus 100% crit in a stealth-focused tree is plain stupid. however taking both dmg and stealth away is an ill considered solution. because it affects 1) 2/3 trees 2) WK paragon path and 3) pve.
dmg can be mordified, but touching the class' basic machanic lightly (which they already did and made tr pretty much a new class) will only cause more issues even destroy the purpose of taking tr to premade.
im not even gonna get into an arguement with u Obsydian666 but clearly butthurt ppl will always whine till the burned area cooled down. everytime i ran into u, either in a premade or pug match, i just cldnt help over hearing ur "cant wait to see the tr gets nerfed" u cry too much, the fact that tr has been underdog for so long with all the broken feats from every class and glyph bull****, iv endured the whole mod and learned how to be patience and do my best to survive for the team. u didnt see me qq on forum or cry everytime i ran into a cw hr or whatever, pretty much every class except dc and undergeared sw cld one shot me. this is my first time actually public my thoughts and feedback for a post bacause its an important matter for my class. its not a feat or dmg change, this 2 sec reveal will most likely change my role in pvp and out perform other classes in certain aspects.
whats interesting is u keep saying tr is op but fail to understand whats causing the trouble. ur signiture says it all that u are a typical qqer who doesnt even bother to examine the root of the problem, so let me break it down for u one more time: the combination of stealth and rediculous dmg that packed in 1 tree.
my arguement in every resonse is not i wanna win in every 1v1 but balance. however taking both dmg and stealth away is an ill considered solution. dmg can be mordified, but touching the class' basic machanic lightly (which they already did and made tr pretty much a new class) will only cause more issues even destroy the class.
Yes i am crying, becouse i I have just enough stupidity of Cryptic. Year of game mod 2/3/4/5 and everytime another class is far away in balance compare to the others. And what is worse- Op class like TR now said- no we are not OP but you can all time one shot everyone from steealth (-_-). Do you think that the CW in all mod wasn't underdog and i dont learn how to survive against classes who eats me in few second like tr now? What in next mod? Time to SW to be OP?
I'm not even gonna get into an arguement with u Obsydian666 but clearly butthurt ppl will always whine till the burned area cooled down. everytime i ran into u, either in a premade or pug match, i just cldnt help over hearing ur "cant wait to see the tr gets nerfed" u cry too much, the fact that tr has been underdog for so long with all the broken feats from every class and glyph bull****, iv endured the whole mod and learned how to be patient and do my best to survive for the team. u didnt see me qq on forum or cry everytime i ran into a cw hr or whatever, pretty much every class except dc and undergeared sw cld one shot me. this is my first time actually public my thoughts and feedback for a post bacause its an important matter for my class. its not a feat or dmg change, this 2 sec reveal will most likely change my role in pvp and out perform other classes in certain aspects.
whats interesting is u keep saying tr is op but fail to understand whats causing the trouble. ur signiture says it all that u are a typical qqer who doesnt even bother to examine the root of the problem, so let me break it down for u one more time: the combination of stealth and rediculous dmg that packed in 1 tree.
my arguement in every resonse is not i wanna win in every 1v1 but balance. i already agreed the piercing dmg plus 100% crit in a stealth focused tree is plain stupid. however taking both dmg and stealth away is an ill considered solution. dmg can be mordified, but touching the class' basic machanic lightly (which they already did and made tr pretty much a new class) will only cause more issues even destroy the purpose of taking tr to premade.
TR's have not been underdog for so long and even in mod4 they weren't understand dogs. Anyway, during mod4 if a tr didn't use red glyphs they did not hit hard at all except with dailies. It was clear trs needed more damage. I wasn't sure if their at-wills needed more damage or encounters. But they needed more damage. But for mod5 they got that and a lot more. So in mod5 finding them in stealth is harder and fighting them outside of stealth is harder. Normally when looking for a rogue you hard to only really worry about df which you could hear if you were close enough to the tr or if the tr wasn't through daggers are you, then you would assume he/she is winding up df. But in mod5 the extra movement speed, dodge roll, excellent cc from stealth(not talking about scoundrel feats), and damage has given them a great advantage. Literally you are forced to not know how to counter because they can close the gap so fast for their dazing strike. If the tr is coming towards you or you are going towards the tr or both, the dazing strike will hit the target from behind. Piercing damage was a bad idea and the devs will never learn.
ok i see the point from both of u as i said in a response a few pages theres hardly any class or player can hold a tr 1v1, which is indeed unbalanced. all we needed was a dmg buff not even piercing cos that needs to be taken away from the pvp, on hrs also. im happy to go back to mod 4 meta as im so used to hold my breath on the node with all the broken feat from all classes. give us abit of more dmg buff or even overload slot in profound gear, so the tr has the guts to fight back is already an improvement. instead of making minor changes and test with players, they went ahead made a new class out of it with more broken ****. im starting to think devs either hardly care about balances or they just have no clue about how to balance 7 classes, but we re not here to critizise but provide feedback and help the devs making right desicions. but creating FOTM trend is clearly not a good idea.
TRs have 6 dodges in combat, it's pretty ridiculous if you ask me, this coupled with twilight adept + insane dmg, they are essentially unbeatable 1v1 wise.
2 sec reveal is too much, it defeats the purpose of stealth. Removing 100% crit chance and nerfing twilight adept (5% down from 10%) would solve a lot of problems.
And yea people should stop being so hostile to one another, it's just a game, relax.
Comments
You didn't contribute, you simply "Misclicked" and then you complain about lack of people when you haven't tried to campaign it anywhere.
And the accuracy of my "Interpenetration" is my own opinion, and I'm entitled to it!
I contributed. And I further contributed in the thread.
For the third time, I'm NOT complaining about the lack of people who voted. I guess I'm not surprised you're struggling with reading comprehension.
It's not "opinion" when you've made generalizations about what people think based on your poll.
Anyway, the thread has digressed enough.
1) TRs only need a "Daily" damage nerf. Basically all dailies should respect DR/Tenacity (IMO ALL damage should do this and its stupid when they try and bypass stuff like that)
2) I like the stealth reveal but 2 seconds is FAR too long. Its needs to be like .5 seconds if that.
- OR IMO id rather just have the distance at which you can see a TR increased slightly INSTEAD of a reveal. Id honestly be in favor of around a 30' stealth detect in FRONT of someone (a little more than half a node) and the "behind" can stay the same as it is now with them not being seen.
If you REALLY want to go "stealth reveal" then it should only last about 1 second and ONLY reveal if the TR is in FRONT of you and attacks you. If a TR hits you from behind you should NOT see it.
It's is a generalization, people have voted, I've reflected on the results, your right, I'm not seeing your point!
Well, I'm still waiting for I am to circumnavigate all the main points of my argument and question me on things I've answered multiple tmes already with his untested theories, the discussion should start up once he contributes
p.s scoundrel dazes need to respect cc immunity. so does terrifying impact.
I reiterate: this is incorrect. The developers have been making separate PVP interactions now for the past several mods. Lets work on the assumption that they can make it work here as well. This of course ignores the fact that a properly specced PVE TR on live can consistently deal the most damage in Tiamat (source: ACT), so a nerf to TR PVE damage could be justified. That's not my fight though.
Players can counter Stealth. They can't counter 1-shotting unmitigatable, unavoidable (dazed) damage every 15 seconds. The problem is damage, not stealth.
Iyon the Dark
What I feel :
>Shocking Execution needs a NERF. Either via reduction of the crit feat in sab tree or base damage. All you hear is SE in pvp. It's wrong and all these cookie sab tr's with 13-15k are one shotting everything. It is by far the biggest complaint.
>Piercing Damage is way over scaled. The fact that it affects BloodBath (again via sab crit feat) so Drastically is absurd. Remove it or scale it WAY down.
>Stealth Reveal ... I'm almost speechless this was considered instead of the above options. We don't need this. It's the CRIT Feat absurdity causing sabos in stealth dealing huge amounts of pain ... Sabo is STEALTH not DAMAGE that's what Exec is for. Fix this and TR goes back to normal.
>Scoundrel Stuns need to be reduced on players and maintained on npcs. All other stuns like this in the game are scaled back vs players.
Again just my two red pennies.
Happy Slaying.
Bel
I never said that the TR need to win 100% of the time, I just want a scenario in which I can outskill people, with the stealth reveal, none exist.
as I stated before, the only reason TR is ever brough to a premade is to hold 1v2 for a decent amount of time, or this happens
And tr is never taken to a premade
As for the Scoundrel dazes, yes they need to, as for terrifying impact, I disagree.
If the game was anything BUT this "domination" where you can completely NEGATE the enemy earning any points on that node by just standing in it. Thats where you bump into issues with players who instead of fighting, try and just turtle the node.
If you removed contesting. TRs wouldnt be an issue if they could perma around all day long because contesting would mean NOTHING. It would all be based on their ability to kill.
So what are the options?
Change TR or change the game.
Change the TR:
Again. ALL TR abilities should respect DR/Tenacity. This would fix blood bath and SE.
Second, make the "TR visibility" ONLY happen when your facing the TR. This can either be the visibility AFTER hit, or something like increased stealth detection - while you are facing the TR.
Change the Game:
Option 1) remove contesting. Whoever owns the node, owns the node.
Option 2) reduce the effects of contesting. Instead of NOT ticking for points when "contested" reduce the point ticks to 1 every 3 seconds (down from 1 every second the node is NOT contested). This also removes the "perma idea" however still lends SOME ability to slow down points overall. This wouldnt create "urgency" to clear the TR at home who is backcontesting though since your still earning points.
option 3) Turn the game into a focus on Kills with a "bonus" per node capped. This again diminishes the focus on "contesting". You earn points per kills/assists and get BONUS points when you kill with 1 or 2 nodes "owned".
All three are easily viable and would remove the "TR Contestor" without having to nerf the TR all that much. The TR SHOULD be ideal at 1v1 if he gets the jump. However its turned into a PVP game of "who can stall the longest" which has made the Perma TR the most effective.
Almost agree with you, except that Bloodbath does not ignore DR/Tenacity, and that it's only an issue when used in conjunction with Shadowy Opportunity. I do however believe that SO needs to be nerfed hard (dividing its effect by even 5 would still make it viable) or swapped with something else.
Also something that BUGS me is "perma stealth". It is NOT that otherwise TRs would never die. You'd never need push TAB as a TR as you are "perma stealth". Admittedly it'd make it hard to RP (roleplay) with a TR as it'd be like trying to chat up the Invisible Man, or the air.
It's ninja skills. It's hiding. It's Shadowdancing. It's Stealth.
"Why is it dragons only use ketchup? I'd like a little wasabi please. Us silvers like a variety of condiments."
"Don't call them foolish mortals. One, they don't learn from it. Two, It just ticks them off." - An Ancient Red Dragon
Short video. Tell me that the TR isnt OP...
20% nerfed of SE....don't make me laugh, TR don't need nerf- TR need HUGE nerf.
So did this fight happen or is it happening even?
If someone wants to test some stuff out on ptr, I'd be glad to test as well. Not big on the epeen 1v1 competition, but testing stuff is fun. Win some, lose some, adjust and have fun.
Iyon the Dark
i can also post my videos just to show u how much assaliant procd along with glyphs and one shot u had before it gets toned down in mod4.
no tr has ever posted video about "cw is op nerf it!" cos there were simply less than a handful of high end tr left in the game. but u do remember how confident u were when u came to tr node cos u knew theres no threat.
now the table has turned, tr can go full aggressive on a cw with confidence cos they know they can daze u and deliver a finishing blow.
ITS NEVER A PROBLEM WITH STEALTH. ITS THE NEW DMG. do u begin to see the picture?
we cld perma forever in pevious modules ppl qq less cos all the tr had to do was to survive u. thats all. now with the rediculous dmg u need 2 ppl to hold us, because we can clear any class 1v1 (except a healing dc or protector gf) effectively with this dmg!
the number of tr players doubled in mod5 because every newbie with low GS /old players who main other classes can just one shot ppl.
as i have stated repeatly its the immence dmg and 100% crit thats causing the trouble, not stealth. touching the fundamental clas feature will not solve perma problem or one shot problem. it will simply destroy the class.
rework sab tree, nerf the dmg in a way it doesnt hurt exe tree in pve and remove 100% crit in stealth.
not stealth reveal.
One last thing i just did more testing on preview, casting ss from stealth reveal the tr from the begining of the animation, u can see where its from and immdiately when it lands u can continue to see the tr for 2 second. so tell me whats the point to have the tab skill? its the same with impact shot, in wk path, vengence persuit. feat: scoundrel training "ur at will deal 9% dmg to enemy not targetting u" so if i attack this feat is meaningless.
stealth reveal on hit will only create more issues and unbalances, the tr overhaul in mod5 was already a step in a wrong direction.
all we needed was a bit of dmg buff to have a chance to fight not just a circle runner or perhaps overload slots in profound gear, but instead, u went over board changed the class completly.
pls take ur time and consider a realistic way to balance the current pvp drama and make small changes at a time and test with us players.
lashing blade should hit like gwf's not so fast because im using the logic that a big sword should do bigger damage than a toothpick.
i can kill u with my little finger if i aim your weak spot
but i cant aoe with it
btw dont use logic
this sentence alone killed 10,000 brain cells of mine.
I can't imagine what would happen to someone having a conversation with you irl.
meh not fun to make people cry .
i leave u alone
still i proved a point u didnt
exactly that moment when he is out of stealth, he uses ITC, thats what it needs to be nerfed so that it will be a 1vs1 chance for both to kill eachother. simple !
I can see you like your way to be OP class
So....
-I made video, and no matter which TR he is becouse i have almost endgame eq too and you know that so don't tell nonsense becouse i have no single chance to fight against PTR
-CW was op- Good joke- assaliant was fixed one week after mod4- CW was never op he was always crushed by GWFs and HRs. Apart from the fact that in module 4 were many classes op like Super Lifesteal HRs or Deflection GFs- why you posted so stupid argument- it was really fast fixed so in my opinion is one big bull**** from you.
-no tr has ever posted video about "cw is op nerf it!- Are you sure? there was a lot of threads on forum, probably from Trs too, and i know that assaliant was OP but like i said earlier- it was fixed after one week.
- In previous mode- PTR and CW could fight an equal fight everyone know that only HRs stay unbalanced and now they are also eaten alive by TRs
-One last thing- I have skills- and i can't land it on you becouse my casting time is to long and even if skill is used, you are still in stealth, so what is point in in fighting with you if i can't even hit you and you can all time hit me with huge dmg and even if you are out of stealt you have ITC and 4 dodges etc?
I lack words for you
This isn't even funny anymore.
A valid point remains: 1 GWF needed tons of training vs BiS TRs to learn how to predict their movements. I have no problem saying i practiced too in PvP against permas but i am not at that level of prediction against BiS players. Can do it only against more "predictable" players. But from videos i've seen that GWF is the first and only one that seems to have no problems spotting permas. Would be interesting to see how he is doing it in module 5, lots to learn from him for sure.
For a TR that training is not needed, or needed to a much lesser degree. What Sobek does in those videos is pretty much 99% skills if as you guys say it's not target lock.
What a TR does is still proactive and involves some skills, but evading players from stealth with 4 long rolls and immunities is far easier.
So it's the same matter, you have 1 class that must be super-geared and super-experienced to hope to fight against another class.
Not to mention the survivability is quite lower on Sobek than on midgy, which means a DPS assassin is more survivable than a tank warrior.
I'm not interested in destroying TRs. I found duels with permas funny before module 5 and i stated multiple times here on forums how it was a skill battle between me predicting their movements and their ability to evade. The module 5 changes destroyed the balance.
I know very well how a class feature can become useless (GWF unstoppable double nerf in module 4). But high DPS+high mobility+permastealth/ semi-perma stealth is a bit too much.
You need to either limit stealth OR revert mobility back to module 4 (shorter rolls, 3 rolls) on Saboteurs. I don't care how devs reach the goal, just hope they find a balance.
As ortzhy said if you just lower damage and leave mobility-stealth combo as it is, all you'll obtain is a 3-4 seconds delay before the enemy eventually dies. There must be a clear window of opportunity to counterattack against a TR, cause it's like that for every other class.
GWF: prone lock/ CC lock in between unstoppable.
GF: circle and get behind shield block.
CW: once their rotation is over, they must evade through teleport and tank through shield
HR: lots of mobility, 5 dodges, but once their rotations are over they can be CCed and brurst down
SW: same as CW but with zoom
DC: CC chain in between empowered astral shields to prevent them from using at-wills to gain divine power. Needs tone down btw in DPS and a bit in survivability too.
TR: try and figure out where i am somewhere, in stealth. Practice tons of hours to do that flawlessly or die without being able to fight back.
That's quite a huge difference in, let's say, learning curve? You don't have a window of opportunity to counterattack. You pretty much train like a beast to create a small, tiny window of opportunity. That's not balance from my point of view.
@ Ayroux:
I was thinking about domination. Games were longer and more fun when tenacity was first introduced. But too long (1 hour and half balanced games, too long).
Increasing DPS speed things up, but at a huge cost (PvP sucks now).
My suggestion: increase respawn times. Longer fights, more tactical and balanced as it was when tenacity was first introduced. But once you die, it takes, let's say, 20 seconds flat time to respawn. During that time, the winner earns points, then you respawn and fight again. If you win, it's 20 seconds for you before the enemy can respawn. Faster games, longer, more "intense" fights.
Can limit a lot the "rush to nodes avoiding fights" tactic.
Nothing to add!
whats interesting is u keep saying tr is op but fail to understand whats causing the trouble. ur signiture says it all that u are a typical qqer who doesnt even bother to examine the root of the problem, so let me break it down for u one more time: the combination of stealth and rediculous dmg that packed in 1 tree.
my arguement in every resonse is not i wanna win in every 1v1 but balance. i already agreed the piercing dmg plus 100% crit in a stealth-focused tree is plain stupid. however taking both dmg and stealth away is an ill considered solution. because it affects 1) 2/3 trees 2) WK paragon path and 3) pve.
dmg can be mordified, but touching the class' basic machanic lightly (which they already did and made tr pretty much a new class) will only cause more issues even destroy the purpose of taking tr to premade.
Yes i am crying, becouse i I have just enough stupidity of Cryptic. Year of game mod 2/3/4/5 and everytime another class is far away in balance compare to the others. And what is worse- Op class like TR now said- no we are not OP but you can all time one shot everyone from steealth (-_-). Do you think that the CW in all mod wasn't underdog and i dont learn how to survive against classes who eats me in few second like tr now? What in next mod? Time to SW to be OP?
2 sec reveal is too much, it defeats the purpose of stealth. Removing 100% crit chance and nerfing twilight adept (5% down from 10%) would solve a lot of problems.
And yea people should stop being so hostile to one another, it's just a game, relax.
Mod 12.5 PvP Power/Crit/Arp Optimization
Youtube channel (PvE/PvP)
oh the irony. coming from someone who rage on pugs when solo queue-ing. GET A HOLD OF YOURSELF FOOL.