test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

Stealth Change vs Damage Reduction

16781012

Comments

  • edited December 2014
    This content has been removed.
  • edited December 2014
    This content has been removed.
  • f2pmaf2pma Member Posts: 665 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    macjae wrote: »
    Of course, then there were also the bleeders, who'd prioritize staying alive to feed their own egos over helping their team win games. It's not surprising that the bleeders are the ones complaining the most now.

    how does getting u killed feed the ego lol
    or staying alive is not helping your team?
    get u logic straight.
  • f2pmaf2pma Member Posts: 665 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    burkaanc wrote: »
    so holding/contesting a point is not pvp

    its not pvp for me
    im not planing to run on cap use stealth and never attack
    so to invest few k dollars only to do run and hide as rogue loool good one
    i can do that with 10 gs
    u dont even need any weapons for that its not pvp
  • pando83pando83 Member Posts: 2,564 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    What? If you're never rolling one after the other, what difference does it make? When you're not rolling you can be hit.

    SW with the right feats has almost unlimited Shift.

    Needs to get hit for that.

    CW with the right feats has almost unlimited Teleport.

    Needs to get hit for that.

    GWF with the right feats has almost unlimited Run.

    Needs to give up 1 DPS power to slot battle fury, be a squishy destroyer and still it's not permanent you can't sprint all the time, not even with all boons and feats in place. It's a borderline troll build that is not viable and by far less survivable than a permastealth TR

    Seriously, if TR dodges are causing you problems you have big issues with how you play.

    Also, TRs have ALSO base movement speed which is 4x faster than a GWF's, CW's or SW's.

    Anyway, issues begin when you put together permastealth or semiperma-stealth, longer rolls, additional dodge, base movement speed.

    But again, i'm still waiting for Sicarius to show how he can achieve a 20/1 K/D ratio with a GWF.
    Or one of the TRs saying it's a L2P issue showing us how they take another class and vs a mod5 TR with a GWF, for example. I'm waiting.

    I trained for one year and got always fair fights before module 5 buffs. No complaint about permastealth. It's quite clear that survivability buffs on top of staying permastealth were not needed and devs themselves said they wanted a different result.

    If you stil lwant to say TRs are balanced, then please take a GWF, come in game and we go pug together, then you show me how you skillfully dispose of current perma builds. It's balanced, after all.

    I'm ready to learn from anybody.
  • dersidiusdersidius Member Posts: 452 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    pando83 wrote: »
    Also, TRs have ALSO base movement speed which is 4x faster than a GWF's, CW's or SW's.

    Anyway, issues begin when you put together permastealth or semiperma-stealth, longer rolls, additional dodge, base movement speed.

    But again, i'm still waiting for Sicarius to show how he can achieve a 20/1 K/D ratio with a GWF.
    Or one of the TRs saying it's a L2P issue showing us how they take another class and vs a mod5 TR with a GWF, for example. I'm waiting.

    I trained for one year and got always fair fights before module 5 buffs. No complaint about permastealth. It's quite clear that survivability buffs on top of staying permastealth were not needed and devs themselves said they wanted a different result.

    If you stil lwant to say TRs are balanced, then please take a GWF, come in game and we go pug together, then you show me how you skillfully dispose of current perma builds. It's balanced, after all.

    I'm ready to learn from anybody.


    Sorry I got tired of repeating myself over and over again with none of my arguments being properly addressed, I answered everything you have to say and I also mentioned my views about the possibility of killing a tr 1v1 On live as opposed to it's possibility on the preview shard which is the realm in which this conversation is taking place.

    I'm not going to repeat myself anymore, instead I will gawk at People for being incapable of reading and retaining information, if you want my answer go look for it, it's there.


    As for the 20-1 k/d ratio on the gwf, out of how many matches do you want it? Because I'm pretty sure you'll be butthurt if I did it in one match and said "here you go"

    DERSIDIUS
    ABSLOLUTE 16px-Cross_within_circle_2.svg.png RANK SEVEN
  • edited December 2014
    This content has been removed.
  • edited December 2014
    This content has been removed.
  • dersidiusdersidius Member Posts: 452 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    macjae wrote: »
    It's probably not that hard on a GWF if you just approach it with the proper attitude. The "proper attitude" being: don't pay much attention to the nodes (let your team take care of winning by dying for you), don't run out in front, sprint away if there's a chance of you dying (spec everything you can into survivability and fast sprinting for this), and hold your big hits back in order to steal kills when you can. Make sure to yell loudly for a DC if you ever get cornered or something.


    My point exactly, k/d in this game is highly subjective to the matches you play since there is no true skill based match making system in place, because of this I laugh every time someone uses my k/d as ammo against me

    I could roll with 4 dcs and sweep 100 pug matches and roll out an unbelievable k/d on any class of your choosing, that's the point I was trying to make

    DERSIDIUS
    ABSLOLUTE 16px-Cross_within_circle_2.svg.png RANK SEVEN
  • hypervoreianhypervoreian Member Posts: 1,036 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    the thread title is " Stealth Change vs Damage Reduction" ,but any sane person would argue that current pvp needs both conditions to take place.

    Current mod5 Trs need both stealth change AND damage reduction.Pvp population is dwiling cause of the swarm of 12-15k TRs oneshotting people and stalematiing toons 5-7k gs above them.

    The devs logic was to buff TR damage and make stealth less rewarding and more difficult to achieve;

    Yet they failed in both.
    Stealth is still easy to achieve and overdid with damage buff.

    Stealth is easier as ever.Attacking from stealth is still easy.Couple this with the extreme,ridicoulous big damage buff the Trs got and you have the recipe for the current disaster.Why is a disaster?

    Remember mod4?One month after mod4 release leaderboard had 3600 pages.How many pages we have now after one month in mod5?1560 or something.
    It is safe to assume that pvp population or more corectlly ,the NW players that pvp play, ARE REDUCED TO HALF.

    People can take a token ammount of frustration;But to have a toon that you leveled over a year and get oneshotted by litle pesky figures running around with 13k gs at Ayrton Sena F1 speed and oneshoting you ,is enough.

    And here we have some Trs who try to distract the conversation;Do your best guys.

    Your OP class is the main reason pvp population is half than 2 months ago.This Cryptic does not like.That is why what Cryptic think and considered to do over a year-stealth rework-is doing in one week.Go figure.
    It is also safe to assume that if,after stealth rework,population will not come back ,Cryptic will nerf you more.4-5 people out of 10 at any given match ,except premades(0.01% of total population ,maybe 40-80 people) are Trs now.
    Disaster.

    Your stealth needs rework:it happened already.Thursday will go live.
    Your att wiils need a severe nerf.No ore 25k att wills .Lol.
    Your dazes duration need their time reduced by half.
    More to come.

    I am so sorry for the pve Trs.They are really nice guys and deserve nothing of the loath and hostility the curent class suffers.They will be the real victims,of some spoiled cheesy -easy players that abuse every mechanic in order to feed their parasitic ego.
  • zvieriszvieris Member Posts: 1,261 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    the thread title is " Stealth Change vs Damage Reduction" ,but any sane person would argue that current pvp needs both conditions to take place.

    Current mod5 Trs need both stealth change AND damage reduction.Pvp population is dwiling cause of the swarm of 12-15k TRs oneshotting people and stalematiing toons 5-7k gs above them.

    The devs logic was to buff TR damage and make stealth less rewarding and more difficult to achieve;

    Yet they failed in both.
    Stealth is still easy to achieve and overdid with damage buff.

    Stealth is easier as ever.Attacking from stealth is still easy.Couple this with the extreme,ridicoulous big damage buff the Trs got and you have the recipe for the current disaster.Why is a disaster?

    Remember mod4?One month after mod4 release leaderboard had 3600 pages.How many pages we have now after one month in mod5?1560 or something.
    It is safe to assume that pvp population or more corectlly ,the NW players that pvp play, ARE REDUCED TO HALF.

    People can take a token ammount of frustration;But to have a toon that you leveled over a year and get oneshotted by litle pesky figures running around with 13k gs at Ayrton Sena F1 speed and oneshoting you ,is enough.

    And here we have some Trs who try to distract the conversation;Do your best guys.

    Your OP class is the main reason pvp population is half than 2 months ago.This Cryptic does not like.That is why what Cryptic think and considered to do over a year-stealth rework-is doing in one week.Go figure.
    It is also safe to assume that if,after stealth rework,population will not come back ,Cryptic will nerf you more.4-5 people out of 10 at any given match ,except premades(0.01% of total population ,maybe 40-80 people) are Trs now.
    Disaster.

    Your stealth needs rework:it happened already.Thursday will go live.
    Your att wiils need a severe nerf.No ore 25k att wills .Lol.
    More to come.

    I am so sorry for the pve Trs.They are really nice guys and deserve nothing of the loath and hostility the curent class suffers.They will be the real victims,of some spoiled cheesy -easy players that abuse every mechanic in order to feed their parasitic ego.

    +1. Couldn't have said any better. It's true also. I for one pvped actively in mod 4 even though undergeared for the most part, and with the OP HRs and CWs on rampage. Then mod 5 came along with TR and DC revamp and now I pretty much just play to get my 2 trumph seals for the upcoming Drow set. And even that with my teeth barred.

    The immortal and bursty HRs and the 1 shotting CWs weren't as bad as immortal 1HKO Trickster Rogues are now. It's like mod 4 HR + CW in one class.
  • burkaancburkaanc Member Posts: 2,186 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    I am so sorry for the pve Trs.They are really nice guys and deserve nothing of the loath and hostility the curent class suffers.They will be the real victims,of some spoiled cheesy -easy players that abuse every mechanic in order to feed their parasitic ego.

    if cryptic do it correctly pve trs might be ok even after nerfs, cyptic just needs to hit trs where it hurts the most for pvp players
    such as:
    1)stealth(though in this game its more invisibility than stealth), for group pve stealth is mostly a damage buff and a way to drop aggro, though if they fixed tanking the aggro part wouldnt matter
    2)piercing damage - arp cap is low enough so piercing doesnt really matter in pve, in pvp its op, for example make tenacity reduce piercing damage, make SE half piercing half normal damage(some piercing is needed to deal with tanks, but it shouldnt ignore tenacity and other buffs like unstoppable, block etc.)
    3)mobility, make dodge shorter, reduce stealthed move speed
    4)cc(daze procs)
    5)DOT skills, make them shorter duration keeping same proc damage, in pve there arent many things that live that long anyway
    Paladin Master Race
  • edited December 2014
    This content has been removed.
  • mat44444mat44444 Member Posts: 116 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Hi

    So basically what you all want is the MOD4 TR but with a couple of changes - the changes being no stealth and reduced damage

    Does that about sum it up?

    Just wondering - because that what it sounds like (and before you all start moaning at me - I liked the mod4 TR, it was fun to play)

    And for all your info - most TR's (people who have played TR's when they were rubbish at damage, rubbish in PVE, and not wanted anywhere) really do want a balanced classed that's fun to play. Not an OP one that's frankly as boring as hell to play. But just grinding them into the dust again is not the answer. And quite frankly the PVP thing, whole thing need a rework so any player regardless of Gear / level has a chance to play and have fun - not be completely blasted into oblivion by any class of higher gear. Prime example being artefact effects and overload - upon any class

    But one thing the comments all agree upon in these forums is that all classes are balanced, some just more so than others - and it all depends upon which class you play.

    I strongly suggest some of you read the original test TR feedback for this mod - most TR's there were seriously trying hard to get a balanced class for all areas of this game, not trying to craft an OP class for PVP. And I think the DEVS are trying to do the same thing, I hope they succeed.

    And perhaps more to the point I hope you all let them without constantly having zero tolerance for anyone else's opinion. There are no wrongs or rights being posted here, just opinions and everyone is aloud to have one.

    So please just be polite - and stop with the contrast trash talk, it's not nice, its not fun, and frankly shows a lack of wit and intelligence.

    I hope you all get what you want out of this game
  • kanenankanenan Member Posts: 115 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    I've already written here on this thread, but allow me to say it once more..

    >Remove or SEVERELY reduce piercing damage.

    This will solve the BB spam and insta kills. It will make 14/16k trs not pwn 20+k characters.

    >REDUCE the 100% crit feat to something more realistic. like 80 AT MOST... IF THAT.

    That takes care of the Shocking Execution spam as well as the PIERCING damage mentioned above.

    >REDUCE stun durations from scoundrel vs players like every other stun in the game.


    DONE. Competetive TR's. Not OP Tr's.

    EDIT: I made Page 2 yesterday as Scoundrel. I don't nor have i ever kicked from party or used exploit to do so unlike so many others (almost* anyone on page1/2..). Don't like dying? Don't PvP. But don't come here saying you shouldnt die, you should stay in stealth forever AND do more dmg than Exec as a Sabo. It's utterly imbalanced and wrong.
    That being said.. I've died to mostly IWIN button Sabo's with good gear and skill and <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> TR's with low gs and very little skill bc of PIERCING/BB/SE in sabo. So.. I'm going to spec Sabo.. I can't take it anymore.. until this stuff gets fixed.

    -Bel
    - behold, halflings.
  • edited December 2014
    This content has been removed.
  • kanenankanenan Member Posts: 115 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Stealth reveal is stupid. Sabo Gloaming Stealth sustain + Massive damage is stupid.
    We have stealth depletion when we attack or are damaged. that is Enough. Make gloaming more of a utility for stealth, not ridiculous damage.
    - behold, halflings.
  • edited December 2014
    This content has been removed.
  • tourtastourtas Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 64 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    morenthar wrote: »
    Unless we know who that TR was fighting, that score means nothing. That TR (has to be Saboteur) could be 20k plus and good with the class and do that to a weak team. So this really proves nothing about anything. I can't look up the players now or I would.

    the 2 free kill warlocks i bet. k/d 3/34 3/39

    27 min game 78kills.
    3kills per minute
    1kill per 20 sec

    Conclusions, are up to you people.
  • edited December 2014
    This content has been removed.
  • destinyknightdestinyknight Member Posts: 962 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    The only thing I can accept about this change is if attacking in stealth reveals you for a very breif amoutn of time. 0.3 seconds. Enough for a blink.

    That way you'd at least have to have quick reflexes to catch them. But this has to have like an internal cooldown to happen. We already have stealth depletion from at wills and a good amount of escape options. Other wise things like bleeds would nearly permenantly have a rogue just blinking when going around in stealth.
  • burkaancburkaanc Member Posts: 2,186 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    The only thing I can accept about this change is if attacking in stealth reveals you for a very breif amoutn of time. 0.3 seconds. Enough for a blink.

    That way you'd at least have to have quick reflexes to catch them. But this has to have like an internal cooldown to happen. We already have stealth depletion from at wills and a good amount of escape options. Other wise things like bleeds would nearly permenantly have a rogue just blinking when going around in stealth.

    you want to know how your 0.3 sec reveal would work on an average out of US player with latency around 150~200 ?

    not even talking about human reaction time + immunity from dodge
    Paladin Master Race
  • demonmongerdemonmonger Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,350 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    the thread title is " Stealth Change vs Damage Reduction" ,but any sane person would argue that current pvp needs both conditions to take place.

    Current mod5 Trs need both stealth change AND damage reduction.Pvp population is dwiling cause of the swarm of 12-15k TRs oneshotting people and stalematiing toons 5-7k gs above them.

    The devs logic was to buff TR damage and make stealth less rewarding and more difficult to achieve;

    Yet they failed in both.
    Stealth is still easy to achieve and overdid with damage buff.

    Stealth is easier as ever.Attacking from stealth is still easy.Couple this with the extreme,ridicoulous big damage buff the Trs got and you have the recipe for the current disaster.Why is a disaster?

    Remember mod4?One month after mod4 release leaderboard had 3600 pages.How many pages we have now after one month in mod5?1560 or something.
    It is safe to assume that pvp population or more corectlly ,the NW players that pvp play, ARE REDUCED TO HALF.

    People can take a token ammount of frustration;But to have a toon that you leveled over a year and get oneshotted by litle pesky figures running around with 13k gs at Ayrton Sena F1 speed and oneshoting you ,is enough.

    And here we have some Trs who try to distract the conversation;Do your best guys.

    Your OP class is the main reason pvp population is half than 2 months ago.This Cryptic does not like.That is why what Cryptic think and considered to do over a year-stealth rework-is doing in one week.Go figure.
    It is also safe to assume that if,after stealth rework,population will not come back ,Cryptic will nerf you more.4-5 people out of 10 at any given match ,except premades(0.01% of total population ,maybe 40-80 people) are Trs now.
    Disaster.

    Your stealth needs rework:it happened already.Thursday will go live.
    Your att wiils need a severe nerf.No ore 25k att wills .Lol.
    Your dazes duration need their time reduced by half.
    More to come.

    I am so sorry for the pve Trs.They are really nice guys and deserve nothing of the loath and hostility the curent class suffers.They will be the real victims,of some spoiled cheesy -easy players that abuse every mechanic in order to feed their parasitic ego.

    the population of the game has gone down not because of TR's
    the population of the game has gone down because players are starting to lose trust in the company.
    over and over we have made investments of time and money into our characters, just to have all of it be for nothing.
    It feels like we are paying to play a beta test game, and wont be refunded our money or time spent.
    So people have been talking, most agreed to play other games.
    They come back from time to time to try to convince the rest of us to join them.

    That is what's happening.
    This is why I have not put anything over rank 7 in my armors and weapons for a long time.

    Thank you Cryptic for giving all TR a Bah Humbug Xmas gift
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
  • zvieriszvieris Member Posts: 1,261 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    the population of the game has gone down not because of TR's
    the population of the game has gone down because players are starting to lose trust in the company.
    over and over we have made investments of time and money into our characters, just to have all of it be for nothing.
    It feels like we are paying to play a beta test game, and wont be refunded our money or time spent.
    So people have been talking, most agreed to play other games.
    They come back from time to time to try to convince the rest of us to join them.

    That is what's happening.
    This is why I have not put anything over rank 7 in my armors and weapons for a long time.

    Thank you Cryptic for giving all TR a Bah Humbug Xmas gift

    First of all, learn to read. He was writing about the PvP population which has gone down tremendously since mod 5. All thanks to TRs and their cheap tricks. Eitherway, nothing to do with server population.

    TR's have been bad boys and girls. They don't deserve a christmas present.
  • twilightwatchmantwilightwatchman Member Posts: 2,007 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    burkaanc wrote: »
    3)mobility, make dodge shorter, reduce stealthed move speed
    4)cc(daze procs)
    The first would badly affect PvE Rogues and the second would kill the Scoundrel tree completely in both PvE and PvP.

    Stealth changes should be limited to addressing permastealth.
    Jenna Sunsoul - Justice Tankadin
    Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
    Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
    Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
    Darquess - Soulbinder
  • twilightwatchmantwilightwatchman Member Posts: 2,007 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    The only thing I can accept about this change is if attacking in stealth reveals you for a very breif amoutn of time. 0.3 seconds. Enough for a blink.

    That way you'd at least have to have quick reflexes to catch them. But this has to have like an internal cooldown to happen. We already have stealth depletion from at wills and a good amount of escape options. Other wise things like bleeds would nearly permenantly have a rogue just blinking when going around in stealth.
    Ever hear of latency? A 0.3 second effect of any sort whatsoever would be lost in typical net lag.

    And DoT effects are not supposed to trigger the reveal, so DF bleeds shouldn't be an issue.
    Jenna Sunsoul - Justice Tankadin
    Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
    Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
    Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
    Darquess - Soulbinder
  • zvieriszvieris Member Posts: 1,261 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    The first would badly affect PvE Rogues and the second would kill the Scoundrel tree completely in both PvE and PvP.

    Stealth changes should be limited to addressing permastealth.

    How would the first affect pve rogues the slightest? You use mounts in PvE. As for dungeons, well, other classes have way worse movement speed.

    The second? So you believe that permadaze is cool, huh? There's nothing cool in being dazed 2/3rds of the time when fighting scoundrel TR and spending the remaining 1/3rd hitting at the shadows. Daze is not affected by deflect and is not lowered against players unlike most CC powers.
  • burkaancburkaanc Member Posts: 2,186 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    The first would badly affect PvE Rogues and the second would kill the Scoundrel tree completely in both PvE and PvP.

    shorter dodge is nicer for pve since you dont have to run as far to get back to killing, if you have to dodge to the side

    it wouldnt kill scoundrel it would just reduce permadaze
    Paladin Master Race
  • mat44444mat44444 Member Posts: 116 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Hi Zvieris
    How would the first affect pve rogues the slightest? You use mounts in PvE. As for dungeons, well, other classes have way worse movement speed.

    Name a class that has a worst basic movement speed than a TR - Your comments just show 1) you lump all TR's and TR feats together. 2) you know nothing about the TR class.

    I don't know what class you play but half its basic movement speed - half the effects of their main feats, this is basically what you are asking for. As an example to you my WK SAB have only 10% more speed available as a slotted feat when in stealth. To use this I have to forego using stuff like first strike or whatever.

    So yes these suggestion would hurt PVE TR's a lot
  • ortzhyortzhy Member Posts: 1,103 Bounty Hunter
    edited December 2014
    well i just tried some pvp and met a scoundrel, rly nice guy and all. I was getting 1 shoted by SE time and time again (18 times)... So sry to break you guys but even with 20% dmg reduction you will have the same fate :)
Sign In or Register to comment.