Solution simple: the new -actual- endgame content would (as logic dictates) start at 3.5k+ IL. BUT if it takes a casual player (by that I mean someone who has a life and likes to spend some of his/her money on a holiday occasionally) 3 freakin´ years to get there it´s not going to materialize. So: ease progression to a reasonable point, then implement endgame content. Might even help PVP obviously. Right?
Side note: a dungeon like CN didn´t benefit anyone at this point. Far to easy for the 3k+ crowd and rather long than difficult for 2k. 3k+ players are bored with it and 2k players just get kicked (if pug and dps) or "carried" (nice pug or guild) so no fun there either.
Put a carrot of actual endgame content in front of my nose and give me a good chance to get there. Why would anyone be opposed to that?
This is going to sound somewhat elitist, but you are talking about the ELITE dungeon currently available. Having run it on test with a decent group, I'll tell you this: Unless you are REALLY good with your class, using the old "figure out how to hit the min and then get carried through the instance" technique that has worked with other dungeons won't work here. The first area, way before the first boss....with a basically BIS group somewhat familiar with the area...wiped multiple times.
Its not for the faint of heart and it is intended for people who know the game well, know their class well, have completed all of the other instances, have spent time refining their gear for optimal stats....
It is not for people who are like "Hey, I got these cheap Dragon Hoard enchants that are rank 10s, I'll replace my Dark 7's in my utility slots with these and I'll be able to get to 3101 IL and access the new dungeon, YAY!". You will not have a good time. As it stands, there won't be much "carrying" through this dungeon. Yes, people on test got through it in 30 minutes, but these are people who know their stuff and have gear that wont be immediately available when it opens.
To each their own of course and I wish you the best of luck. I just have concerns about people trying this dungeon at 3100, getting frustrated and not even being able to leave the campfire, and then getting the dungeon nerfed to the point of another cakewalk by people who have been WAITING for this for years.....
/soapbox
Maybe the bis people who played it on preview cant play their classes
I dont think so. I know some of the ppl who played it on preview and finished it in 30 minutes. A buff/ debuff DC with BIS gear, flail snail, fire weapons etc., who, besides all the buffs and debuffs, outdpses 90% of the players on this server. The guy who posted all this nice 'look we killed/completed XY in a few seconds/ minutes and wrote one of the most elaborated CW guides on his CW. A GF, who soloed CN and most of the other dungeons, OP and GWF. The GWF, as the DC told me, was the guy who outdpsed my GWF alt dealing double the dmg, while my 3.2k IL GWF deals 2-20 times the dmg of most 3k chars, due to being a GWF, R 12 bondings and SH 20 boons.
I can still remember the DC cursing in TS after the run and he keeps complaining about the frost dmg, that deals 1/2 of the unmitigated dmg as true dmg (boss hits for 1kk, GF blocked it and died from 500k frost dmg). If they fix this, it might be easier to survive, but with the dmg needed to kill this bosses in mind, a 3.1k IL group will most likely take 1-1 1/2 hours to complete this dungeon, if they can do it at all.
WITH permanent high personal power with rings dont go on cooldown and 100 % crate i can outdps 100% of the server. IN every video they appear with the companion that they reported. I Have seen some of them to appear to epic edemo run without a class to give power to appear permanent with 75k power.
This is going to sound somewhat elitist, but you are talking about the ELITE dungeon currently available. Having run it on test with a decent group, I'll tell you this: Unless you are REALLY good with your class, using the old "figure out how to hit the min and then get carried through the instance" technique that has worked with other dungeons won't work here. The first area, way before the first boss....with a basically BIS group somewhat familiar with the area...wiped multiple times.
Its not for the faint of heart and it is intended for people who know the game well, know their class well, have completed all of the other instances, have spent time refining their gear for optimal stats....
It is not for people who are like "Hey, I got these cheap Dragon Hoard enchants that are rank 10s, I'll replace my Dark 7's in my utility slots with these and I'll be able to get to 3101 IL and access the new dungeon, YAY!". You will not have a good time. As it stands, there won't be much "carrying" through this dungeon. Yes, people on test got through it in 30 minutes, but these are people who know their stuff and have gear that wont be immediately available when it opens.
To each their own of course and I wish you the best of luck. I just have concerns about people trying this dungeon at 3100, getting frustrated and not even being able to leave the campfire, and then getting the dungeon nerfed to the point of another cakewalk by people who have been WAITING for this for years.....
/soapbox
Maybe the bis people who played it on preview cant play their classes
I dont think so. I know some of the ppl who played it on preview and finished it in 30 minutes. A buff/ debuff DC with BIS gear, flail snail, fire weapons etc., who, besides all the buffs and debuffs, outdpses 90% of the players on this server. The guy who posted all this nice 'look we killed/completed XY in a few seconds/ minutes and wrote one of the most elaborated CW guides on his CW. A GF, who soloed CN and most of the other dungeons, OP and GWF. The GWF, as the DC told me, was the guy who outdpsed my GWF alt dealing double the dmg, while my 3.2k IL GWF deals 2-20 times the dmg of most 3k chars, due to being a GWF, R 12 bondings and SH 20 boons.
I can still remember the DC cursing in TS after the run and he keeps complaining about the frost dmg, that deals 1/2 of the unmitigated dmg as true dmg (boss hits for 1kk, GF blocked it and died from 500k frost dmg). If they fix this, it might be easier to survive, but with the dmg needed to kill this bosses in mind, a 3.1k IL group will most likely take 1-1 1/2 hours to complete this dungeon, if they can do it at all.
This is exactly what @oldbaldyone meant. This is a Challenege for upper tier playing. Not a disneyfied cuddly walk in a forest with some trolls that fall over as you walk by. We all want this! You are going to need 31% frost resist from the new gear and kits etc.. people will have no choice BUT to hit 3.1k using this stuff. so think about the next double rp to make some r9+ for your slots. I also really hope it IS tough and that it doesn't get softened.
considering the legacy gears doesn't have that everfrost resistance, I would assume that 3100 il (legacy gear) wont be enough to enjoy the new dungeon.
It is not for people who are like "Hey, I got these cheap Dragon Hoard enchants that are rank 10s, I'll replace my Dark 7's in my utility slots with these and I'll be able to get to 3101 IL and access the new dungeon, YAY!". You will not have a good time.
Atodaso@sneak#6191 Tornado Of Souls
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dread4moorMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,154Arc User
Please do not inflate your GS just to queue for FB. You will be a burden to those of us geared for the dungeon.
Instead, focus on perfecting your build, learning your class role and collecting the gear to match your playstyle.
You will get there in due time. Be patient.
I am Took.
"Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
It is not for people who are like "Hey, I got these cheap Dragon Hoard enchants that are rank 10s, I'll replace my Dark 7's in my utility slots with these and I'll be able to get to 3101 IL and access the new dungeon, YAY!". You will not have a good time.
You just made my night. Thank you. Thank you, Sir.
This is going to sound somewhat elitist, but you are talking about the ELITE dungeon currently available. Having run it on test with a decent group, I'll tell you this: Unless you are REALLY good with your class, using the old "figure out how to hit the min and then get carried through the instance" technique that has worked with other dungeons won't work here. The first area, way before the first boss....with a basically BIS group somewhat familiar with the area...wiped multiple times.
Its not for the faint of heart and it is intended for people who know the game well, know their class well, have completed all of the other instances, have spent time refining their gear for optimal stats....
It is not for people who are like "Hey, I got these cheap Dragon Hoard enchants that are rank 10s, I'll replace my Dark 7's in my utility slots with these and I'll be able to get to 3101 IL and access the new dungeon, YAY!". You will not have a good time. As it stands, there won't be much "carrying" through this dungeon. Yes, people on test got through it in 30 minutes, but these are people who know their stuff and have gear that wont be immediately available when it opens.
To each their own of course and I wish you the best of luck. I just have concerns about people trying this dungeon at 3100, getting frustrated and not even being able to leave the campfire, and then getting the dungeon nerfed to the point of another cakewalk by people who have been WAITING for this for years.....
/soapbox
Maybe the bis people who played it on preview cant play their classes
I dont think so. I know some of the ppl who played it on preview and finished it in 30 minutes. A buff/ debuff DC with BIS gear, flail snail, fire weapons etc., who, besides all the buffs and debuffs, outdpses 90% of the players on this server. The guy who posted all this nice 'look we killed/completed XY in a few seconds/ minutes and wrote one of the most elaborated CW guides on his CW. A GF, who soloed CN and most of the other dungeons, OP and GWF. The GWF, as the DC told me, was the guy who outdpsed my GWF alt dealing double the dmg, while my 3.2k IL GWF deals 2-20 times the dmg of most 3k chars, due to being a GWF, R 12 bondings and SH 20 boons.
I can still remember the DC cursing in TS after the run and he keeps complaining about the frost dmg, that deals 1/2 of the unmitigated dmg as true dmg (boss hits for 1kk, GF blocked it and died from 500k frost dmg). If they fix this, it might be easier to survive, but with the dmg needed to kill this bosses in mind, a 3.1k IL group will most likely take 1-1 1/2 hours to complete this dungeon, if they can do it at all.
This is exactly what @oldbaldyone meant. This is a Challenege for upper tier playing. Not a disneyfied cuddly walk in a forest with some trolls that fall over as you walk by. We all want this! You are going to need 31% frost resist from the new gear and kits etc.. people will have no choice BUT to hit 3.1k using this stuff. so think about the next double rp to make some r9+ for your slots. I also really hope it IS tough and that it doesn't get softened.
I predict that this new super hard instance which "all of you wanted" will be a ghost town soon.
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Solution simple: the new -actual- endgame content would (as logic dictates) start at 3.5k+ IL. BUT if it takes a casual player (by that I mean someone who has a life and likes to spend some of his/her money on a holiday occasionally) 3 freakin´ years to get there it´s not going to materialize. So: ease progression to a reasonable point, then implement endgame content. Might even help PVP obviously. Right?
Side note: a dungeon like CN didn´t benefit anyone at this point. Far to easy for the 3k+ crowd and rather long than difficult for 2k. 3k+ players are bored with it and 2k players just get kicked (if pug and dps) or "carried" (nice pug or guild) so no fun there either.
Put a carrot of actual endgame content in front of my nose and give me a good chance to get there. Why would anyone be opposed to that?
Because the folks who run the game make money from imbalance in all its forms.
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
It is not for people who are like "Hey, I got these cheap Dragon Hoard enchants that are rank 10s, I'll replace my Dark 7's in my utility slots with these and I'll be able to get to 3101 IL and access the new dungeon, YAY!". You will not have a good time.
lol'ed even more..
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jaysun1977Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 177Arc User
I predict that this new super hard instance which "all of you wanted" will be a ghost town soon.
That is most likely true, unless they elevate the loot to a corresponding level. It's no argument against the difficulty of the dungeon or the need for a difficult dungeon, though.
I predict that this new super hard instance which "all of you wanted" will be a ghost town soon.
That is most likely true, unless they elevate the loot to a corresponding level. It's no argument against the difficulty of the dungeon or the need for a difficult dungeon, though.
Indeed, which in turn proves that people dont actually want a challenge for the sake of challenge, what they really want is a reward. Thats why they speed run stuff, thats why they glitch their way thru stuff, players, people are always looking for the path of least resistance. Neverwinter used to be a game with really rewarding dungeons - you know a real rpg where you get valuable loot. In the past when sets like Avatar of War dropped unbound and could be sold for a small fortune, that was the golden age. And I dare say this will never return to the game. Why? I let you people figure it out yourselves, its not hard.
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
considering the legacy gears doesn't have that everfrost resistance, I would assume that 3100 il (legacy gear) wont be enough to enjoy the new dungeon.
Ppl will do this like in IWD. Put on gear with resistance, que, enter, switch back to legacy gear.
Chars: CW, DC, GF, GWF, HR and TR.
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ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
People I know are not serious about getting IL 3.1 K or beyond, it just takes too long.. hope the devs can look into the IL requirements for Fangbreaker island.
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jaysun1977Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 177Arc User
People I know are not serious about getting IL 3.1 K or beyond, it just takes too long.. hope the devs can look into the IL requirements for Fangbreaker island.
The requirements are fine the way they are (although you could argue the 31% FR requirement). You don't have to have 3.1K iL right away, just take it as somethign to work towards to.
People I know are not serious about getting IL 3.1 K or beyond, it just takes too long.. hope the devs can look into the IL requirements for Fangbreaker island.
The requirements are fine the way they are (although you could argue the 31% FR requirement). You don't have to have 3.1K iL right away, just take it as somethign to work towards to.
No its not, people that spend 2 hours a day on the game on one account would take eons to get 3.1k IL.
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jaysun1977Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 177Arc User
People I know are not serious about getting IL 3.1 K or beyond, it just takes too long.. hope the devs can look into the IL requirements for Fangbreaker island.
The requirements are fine the way they are (although you could argue the 31% FR requirement). You don't have to have 3.1K iL right away, just take it as somethign to work towards to.
No its not, people that spend 2 hours a day on the game on one account would take eons to get 3.1k IL.
That's nonsense. You make 1M AD per month just from salvage. And that's per character. On top of that you get a net gain of 200K - 300K from VIP, each moth, per account. To get to 3.1K iL you need no more than 6M or 8M AD. If you consider a few month too long, then you are playing the wrong kind of game.
EDIT: Plus, you can make millions each event, just playing the market. Even with just an hour a day, you can get your iL 3K in a single event period.
People I know are not serious about getting IL 3.1 K or beyond, it just takes too long.. hope the devs can look into the IL requirements for Fangbreaker island.
The requirements are fine the way they are (although you could argue the 31% FR requirement). You don't have to have 3.1K iL right away, just take it as somethign to work towards to.
No its not, people that spend 2 hours a day on the game on one account would take eons to get 3.1k IL.
That's nonsense. You make 1M AD per month just from salvage. And that's per character. On top of that you get a net gain of 200K - 300K from VIP, each moth, per account. To get to 3.1K iL you need no more than 3M or 4M AD. If you consider a few month too long, then you are playing the wrong kind of game.
No one that I know wants to play too long, you got to be kidding to accumulate so much AD.. I disagree and still say devs should change requirements.
People I know are not serious about getting IL 3.1 K or beyond, it just takes too long.. hope the devs can look into the IL requirements for Fangbreaker island.
The requirements are fine the way they are (although you could argue the 31% FR requirement). You don't have to have 3.1K iL right away, just take it as somethign to work towards to.
No its not, people that spend 2 hours a day on the game on one account would take eons to get 3.1k IL.
That's nonsense. You make 1M AD per month just from salvage. And that's per character. On top of that you get a net gain of 200K - 300K from VIP, each moth, per account. To get to 3.1K iL you need no more than 3M or 4M AD. If you consider a few month too long, then you are playing the wrong kind of game.
No one that I know wants to play too long, you got to be kidding to accumulate so much AD.. I disagree and still say devs should change requirements.
Daily refinement limit (36K) times 30 days = 1,080,000 AD.
You can reach the 36K from salvage, 2 dungeons and 4 skirmishes in about 40 minutes with an average group or in about 28 minutes in a proper group. What you do with the rest of your 1 hour and 20 minutes left in your gaming day is entirely up to you.
People I know are not serious about getting IL 3.1 K or beyond, it just takes too long.. hope the devs can look into the IL requirements for Fangbreaker island.
The requirements are fine the way they are (although you could argue the 31% FR requirement). You don't have to have 3.1K iL right away, just take it as somethign to work towards to.
No its not, people that spend 2 hours a day on the game on one account would take eons to get 3.1k IL.
That's nonsense. You make 1M AD per month just from salvage. And that's per character. On top of that you get a net gain of 200K - 300K from VIP, each moth, per account. To get to 3.1K iL you need no more than 3M or 4M AD. If you consider a few month too long, then you are playing the wrong kind of game.
No one that I know wants to play too long, you got to be kidding to accumulate so much AD.. I disagree and still say devs should change requirements.
Daily refinement limit (36K) times 30 days = 1,080,000 AD.
You can reach the 36K from salvage, 2 dungeons and 4 skirmishes in about 40 minutes with an average group or in about 28 minutes in a proper group. What you do with the rest of your 1 hour and 20 minutes left in your gaming day is entirely up to you.
Nope, wait times are atrocious these days for dungeons and skirmishes (taking about 15 mins just for one dungeon or throne of dwarven gods).. You only get 4000+ AD from 2 Skirmishes like throne of dwarven gods. People I know say that 3100 IL is a hard grind which is like working on a job. I agree with them, this just a point of view, we hope things can change for the better.
Nope, wait times are atrocious these days for dungeons and skirmishes (taking about 15 mins just for one dungeon or throne of dwarven gods).. You only get 4000+ AD from 2 Skirmishes like throne of dwarven gods. People I know say that 3100 IL is a hard grind which is like working on a job. I agree with them, this just a point of view, we hope things can change for the better
Don't just queue random. Use Zone chat to gather a group and enter as a private. I am not trying to be a HAMSTER here but it's one of the reasons you should join a proper guild. I can understand if you want to slug it out solo or stick with a small guild of friends but the game simply can't take that into account and you need to live with the consequences of your choices.
I am being fairly conservative if I estimate monthly income around 1M AD. Most players that have more than one character will easily make more than that. And keep in mind, that that's just salvage numbers. The real money is not made in salvage but on the AH, playing the events. Selling skins or fashion items, selling mounts or companions, reselling refined ressources (like doohickeys). Just keep your eyes open for money makiing opportunities and you will easily make millions each major event, even with only a low starting budget (sometimes 200K AD can be all you need to jumpstart your revenue stream).
Now, feel free to disagree with me. I am not typing this to "prove you wrong" or to "win an argument" but to tell you that you actually have the ability, even with your limited playtime, to easily get to 3.1K iL within the span of a few months, starting from scratch. You can listen to all the naysayers telling you that you "can't do it" and that it's "just too much damned work" or you can start enjoying the game and working towards a goal. Just be patient. There is no need for you to tackle FBI within the next two or three months. There is plenty of other content for you to enjoy in the meantime, while you work your way towards it.
Welcome to RPGs. They have always been a grind. You obviously picked the wrong genre of games. Sounds like FPSs are what you are looking for.
While I agree some hardwork and patience is required for RPGs, more straight forward fun would also be a good RPG element to have... lets just agree to disagree. 3100 IL is no joke.. no one I know is laughing at this requirement.
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mamalion1234Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,415Arc User
3,1 requirement is a joke from other poimt of view. I can be 2k with crazy stats with bonding 12 x3 285% stats and rank 12 on companion gear.GUESS what that is not visible but i am strong enough to beat fbi but you dont let me ! OH and 8k POWEr FRom sh boon and 8k ls or defence or 30k hp!. SO dont be so sure a player will fail bying the cheap dragonhoard enchantments see above the hidden power creep.
SKill and timing doesnt exist anymore when i am not able to cast a full debuff-buff rotation on my dc because everything is dead. Leave your guild. Change to augment companion. THEN come to tell the dungeon is for your 3.1 item level the "elite player"
Not to derail the argument here, because we all know how much people love to argue over the internet, but haven't we had this discussion before? I seem to recall alot of arguments like this one breaking out over Tiamat. Or Demogorgon.
Comments
Side note: a dungeon like CN didn´t benefit anyone at this point. Far to easy for the 3k+ crowd and rather long than difficult for 2k. 3k+ players are bored with it and 2k players just get kicked (if pug and dps) or "carried" (nice pug or guild) so no fun there either.
Put a carrot of actual endgame content in front of my nose and give me a good chance to get there. Why would anyone be opposed to that?
30 minutes too long i am
Tornado Of Souls
You will be a burden to those of us geared for the dungeon.
Instead, focus on perfecting your build, learning your class role and collecting the gear to match your playstyle.
You will get there in due time. Be patient.
I am Took.
"Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Wait. I may have to get back to you on this...
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
EDIT: Plus, you can make millions each event, just playing the market. Even with just an hour a day, you can get your iL 3K in a single event period.
You can reach the 36K from salvage, 2 dungeons and 4 skirmishes in about 40 minutes with an average group or in about 28 minutes in a proper group. What you do with the rest of your 1 hour and 20 minutes left in your gaming day is entirely up to you.
I am being fairly conservative if I estimate monthly income around 1M AD. Most players that have more than one character will easily make more than that. And keep in mind, that that's just salvage numbers. The real money is not made in salvage but on the AH, playing the events. Selling skins or fashion items, selling mounts or companions, reselling refined ressources (like doohickeys). Just keep your eyes open for money makiing opportunities and you will easily make millions each major event, even with only a low starting budget (sometimes 200K AD can be all you need to jumpstart your revenue stream).
Now, feel free to disagree with me. I am not typing this to "prove you wrong" or to "win an argument" but to tell you that you actually have the ability, even with your limited playtime, to easily get to 3.1K iL within the span of a few months, starting from scratch.
You can listen to all the naysayers telling you that you "can't do it" and that it's "just too much damned work" or you can start enjoying the game and working towards a goal. Just be patient. There is no need for you to tackle FBI within the next two or three months. There is plenty of other content for you to enjoy in the meantime, while you work your way towards it.
OH and 8k POWEr FRom sh boon and 8k ls or defence or 30k hp!.
SO dont be so sure a player will fail bying the cheap dragonhoard enchantments see above the hidden power creep.
SKill and timing doesnt exist anymore when i am not able to cast a full debuff-buff rotation on my dc because everything is dead.
Leave your guild. Change to augment companion. THEN come to tell the dungeon is for your 3.1 item level the "elite player"