Mark: No longer roots the user in place when activated. Can now be activated while blocking. Animation changed to work with this new functionality.
Aggravating Strike & Shield Slam: The scaling on these powers was not updated when we added the 4th rank of powers. This has been updated, resulting in a slight damage increase for these 2 abilities.
Aggravating Strike: Activation time reduced from 1.2s to 1s. This has increased the DPS of this power by ~20%. Note that this also means each individual hit generates slightly less AP, but the average AP generated over time is still roughly the same.
Shield Slam: Activation time reduced from 1s to 0.9s. Damage increased ~14%. The combination of these 2 changes has increased the DPS of this power by ~27%. Note that this also means each individual hit generates slightly fewer Action Points, but the average AP generated over time is still roughly the same.
Crushing Surge: Decreased the activation time of each of the 3 attacks in the combo. This has increased the DPS of the combo by ~16%. Note that this also means each individual hit generates slightly fewer Action Points, but the average AP generated over time is still roughly the same.
Crushing Surge: Now heals on every swing of the attack. The first swing heals for 1/4 the amount of the final swing, and the second swing heals for 1/2 the amount of the final swing. Ranking this power up now also increases the healing value.
Cleave: Decreased overall activation time of the combo from 2.41s to 2.25s. Increased the damage of the third hit by ~33%. The combination of these 2 changes has increased the DPS of this combo by ~20%. Note that this also means each individual hit generates slightly fewer Action Points, but the average AP generated over time is still roughly the same.
Cleave: This power now has a cone area of effect, instead of a short cylinder. In addition, it no longer forces you to face a valid target, allowing you greater control over what you can hit with the power.
Tide of Iron: Activation time reduced from 1.125s to 1s. This has increased the DPS of this power by ~12%. Note that this also means each individual hit generates slightly fewer Action Points, but the average AP generated over time is still roughly the same.
Indomitable Strength: Now lowers the damage the target deals by 10% for 5s. Each rank increases this duration by 1s.
Guardian Fighters will no longer receive a 20% damage buff for 1 second every 20 seconds.
Please for the love of God, why would people say nerf the GF. Their is classes like the HR and TR that can have an unlimited rotation while stunning you completely and being either immune or dodging the whole time, and a class that deflects the whole time as you fight air. lol. Just saying people, think before you post. because most of you probably are the classes that actually are OP. Amenar, will their be a nerf to the GF? I really hope not. Thanks.
Anyone who thinks that a dps isn't a contender for top dps this mod, really has no conception of the damage potential of a SM Conq GF.
And no other class is a contender? Any skilled player can combat the GF. I've played enough to know this. (every class in this game) Yes it is true. Conq build GF is disgusting. But thats no excuse that other classes can't beat it. I think we can both agree, other classes dominate the GF. Don't agree? PLAY ONE.
And no other class is a contender? Any skilled player can combat the GF. I've played enough to know this. (every class in this game) Yes it is true. Conq build GF is disgusting. But thats no excuse that other classes can't beat it. I think we can both agree, other classes dominate the GF. Don't agree? PLAY ONE.
Dear friend, you definitely play Neverwinter?
Enough to take to sharpen his GF. Not forgetting the tricks that call the battle gives a lot of protection and resistance (most importantly don't forget to equip stone of an elven battle). Take the ring of ambush (invisibility), turn on/HardTargetLock 1, Paladin artifact, main dial overall level 3.5 + and you are immortal. The call to battle, Bull and anvil (appeal in battle, Knight's challenge, anvil), and who kill in PvP this GF, except the second GF?
Do not believe? Then invite the Drider, for any class except GF, we show how to kill with a single blow (4 k + characters, with rare exceptions, you need 3-4 skills ).
Anyone who thinks that a dps isn't a contender for top dps this mod, really has no conception of the damage potential of a SM Conq GF.
And no other class is a contender? Any skilled player can combat the GF. I've played enough to know this. (every class in this game) Yes it is true. Conq build GF is disgusting. But thats no excuse that other classes can't beat it. I think we can both agree, other classes dominate the GF. Don't agree? PLAY ONE.
Here is edemo, a tr a CW and a GF.
Here is GF:
Here is TR:
GF is using rank 8s and an augment, tr has a bonding pet and rank 12s. AFAIK, that is literally the best pve tr on the server. You can bet any player from any class you like (with the exception of buglocks, but those will be fixed anyhow at some point) against a good dps GF, I will bet the GF takes the lead for DPS.
Anyone who thinks that a dps isn't a contender for top dps this mod, really has no conception of the damage potential of a SM Conq GF.
And no other class is a contender? Any skilled player can combat the GF. I've played enough to know this. (every class in this game) Yes it is true. Conq build GF is disgusting. But thats no excuse that other classes can't beat it. I think we can both agree, other classes dominate the GF. Don't agree? PLAY ONE.
Here is edemo, a tr a CW and a GF.
Here is GF:
Here is TR:
GF is using rank 8s and an augment, tr has a bonding pet and rank 12s. AFAIK, that is literally the best pve tr on the server. You can bet any player from any class you like (with the exception of buglocks, but those will be fixed anyhow at some point) against a good dps GF, I will bet the GF takes the lead for DPS.
My favorite part is how you compare the GF to other classes that aren't relevant in PvE anymore. The TR? Really dude? what is this MOD5? lmao. Compare the GF to a real class like a Warlock or a GWF because we both know those 2 classes alone take the cake in DPS, and surpass the GF by millions. please also understand I'm coming from a PvP standpoint also. But in this case, Im talking strict PvE.
And no other class is a contender? Any skilled player can combat the GF. I've played enough to know this. (every class in this game) Yes it is true. Conq build GF is disgusting. But thats no excuse that other classes can't beat it. I think we can both agree, other classes dominate the GF. Don't agree? PLAY ONE.
Dear friend, you definitely play Neverwinter?
Enough to take to sharpen his GF. Not forgetting the tricks that call the battle gives a lot of protection and resistance (most importantly don't forget to equip stone of an elven battle). Take the ring of ambush (invisibility), turn on/HardTargetLock 1, Paladin artifact, main dial overall level 3.5 + and you are immortal. The call to battle, Bull and anvil (appeal in battle, Knight's challenge, anvil), and who kill in PvP this GF, except the second GF?
Do not believe? Then invite the Drider, for any class except GF, we show how to kill with a single blow (4 k + characters, with rare exceptions, you need 3-4 skills ).
What the heck is call to battle. Is that a new thing? lmao. please remember "dear friend" I'm on the Xbox. Stone of an elven battle? you mean Elven battle enchantment? ugh yeah no. why would I do that when I could run ring of sieging +5 and a negation or elven and then shield talent/artifact power combo. And by the way buddy, if you aren't already uneducated in PvP enough, that situation you said is beyond unlikely, Im not talking about pug stomping, and the only type of people that die from that, are people who have 0 clue on how to combat the GF correctly. You sound like the dudes that get smacked in pug stomps. That situation right there in a pre-made would cost the GF's life. Thats a very dumb move by the GF. And trust me when I say this I've been in thousands of games to know. Seriously don't give me that man. So many other classes have set in stone clear advantage over the GF. HR with trans shadow clad/holy avenger, rip. Never saw a GF run the paladin artifact either so clearly you have no clue what you are even talking about.
beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
If you can figure out what someone using a translator is talking about well enough to criticize the fact that the translator doesn't manage to recreate the game's terminology precisely in English, then they got their message across and you're just being a jerk for mocking them.
Dear friend, I understand that my English is not so good as desired (but some are limited to smaller, but this controversy). Skill is called: Into the Fray, About how many PvP battles was my person, let me put it this way: 600 days multiplied by 6 (taking the average value of the experience of the game and the amount of PvP battles) is 3600 (this is the minimum). I play from January 2014 year in this game, and rank me to PvP players. And I play on PC. And still waiting on the server PC Drider. I think the game on XBOX and PC is different. And describe the difference between joystick and keyboard is not worth it? Or are you not aware that they are different?
Sincerely and with best wishes, your opponent in this dispute.
CW 4,1 in PVP\ 3,8 in PVE
0
thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
Anyone who thinks that a dps isn't a contender for top dps this mod, really has no conception of the damage potential of a SM Conq GF.
And no other class is a contender? Any skilled player can combat the GF. I've played enough to know this. (every class in this game) Yes it is true. Conq build GF is disgusting. But thats no excuse that other classes can't beat it. I think we can both agree, other classes dominate the GF. Don't agree? PLAY ONE.
Here is edemo, a tr a CW and a GF.
Here is GF:
Here is TR:
GF is using rank 8s and an augment, tr has a bonding pet and rank 12s. AFAIK, that is literally the best pve tr on the server. You can bet any player from any class you like (with the exception of buglocks, but those will be fixed anyhow at some point) against a good dps GF, I will bet the GF takes the lead for DPS.
My favorite part is how you compare the GF to other classes that aren't relevant in PvE anymore. The TR? Really dude? what is this MOD5? lmao. Compare the GF to a real class like a Warlock or a GWF because we both know those 2 classes alone take the cake in DPS, and surpass the GF by millions. please also understand I'm coming from a PvP standpoint also. But in this case, Im talking strict PvE.
See the thing is, even though it is the case that TR or CW aren't the top dogs for dps, a GF SHOULD STILL NOT BE DOING MORE DAMAGE THAN THEM. This is because a GF is a utility class. I could argue for CW and GF being equal, but at no point, should GF be doing massive amounts more than a CW, considering the class offers far more utility in terms of buffs (read: itf).
zekethesinnerMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 805Arc User
There is like 3 or 4 GF being true dps on whole server, and those gfs can outdps any1, granted. but they dont share they build, they build is not dependant on ITF, and i dont think its 100% connected to conq path ( tho im not sure about the last one), neither is it connected with wrath. Snoo/freya is not using ITF at all. So please, drop that stupid campaign against ITF and try to figure out what is the true culprit there.
im getting sick of all those asscracks raging against ITF, while i personally never used ITF in pvp and still crushed almost every eoa or other self-proclaimed "legit pvper" (lol).
This is a problem with group buffs obviously. Look at the graph on the bottom, you can clearly see the normal max dps for the goristro phase. It goes up, then he charges and it goes to 0, then it goes up again. Then, against demogorgon itself, a stationary target there is suddenly an insanely huge damage spike from everyone. Like a buff or debuff (or both) interacting in a weird way and giving everyone crazy damage. Damage effectiveness is 250% on average even. That's another sign buffs/debuffs are the problem here. I suspect this is one or more of the old broken mod 5 sets at work here, maybe some weapon enchant on top of that. And of course a buff cleric. People are right that this is a problem for only 1% of players.
In fact, I've seen lots of "dps" guardians lately that get killed, don't know how to keep threat or refuse to act as a defender at all. That always leads to a fail. Please stop telling people GFs are a viable or even overpowered damage dealers. They are not.
If you can figure out what someone using a translator is talking about well enough to criticize the fact that the translator doesn't manage to recreate the game's terminology precisely in English, then they got their message across and you're just being a jerk for mocking them.
I'm not coming off mean. It's just the point that he was making was not very smart. The correlation between the subject and his point literally was not accurate at all. And plus, how am I supposed to know he doesn't speak English over a screen? Exactly.
Anyone who thinks that a dps isn't a contender for top dps this mod, really has no conception of the damage potential of a SM Conq GF.
And no other class is a contender? Any skilled player can combat the GF. I've played enough to know this. (every class in this game) Yes it is true. Conq build GF is disgusting. But thats no excuse that other classes can't beat it. I think we can both agree, other classes dominate the GF. Don't agree? PLAY ONE.
Here is edemo, a tr a CW and a GF.
Here is GF:
Here is TR:
GF is using rank 8s and an augment, tr has a bonding pet and rank 12s. AFAIK, that is literally the best pve tr on the server. You can bet any player from any class you like (with the exception of buglocks, but those will be fixed anyhow at some point) against a good dps GF, I will bet the GF takes the lead for DPS.
My favorite part is how you compare the GF to other classes that aren't relevant in PvE anymore. The TR? Really dude? what is this MOD5? lmao. Compare the GF to a real class like a Warlock or a GWF because we both know those 2 classes alone take the cake in DPS, and surpass the GF by millions. please also understand I'm coming from a PvP standpoint also. But in this case, Im talking strict PvE.
See the thing is, even though it is the case that TR or CW aren't the top dogs for dps, a GF SHOULD STILL NOT BE DOING MORE DAMAGE THAN THEM. This is because a GF is a utility class. I could argue for CW and GF being equal, but at no point, should GF be doing massive amounts more than a CW, considering the class offers far more utility in terms of buffs (read: itf).
But now you're talking about build. If the GF is doing more damage, the CW or whoever it is should reevaluate life. It all depends on the build. However, the CW base performance out does the Guardian's. We aren't made to do damage. We are a buff/debuff class in PvE. Please, understand that.
There is like 3 or 4 GF being true dps on whole server, and those gfs can outdps any1, granted. but they dont share they build, they build is not dependant on ITF, and i dont think its 100% connected to conq path ( tho im not sure about the last one), neither is it connected with wrath. Snoo/freya is not using ITF at all. So please, drop that stupid campaign against ITF and try to figure out what is the true culprit there.
im getting sick of all those asscracks raging against ITF, while i personally never used ITF in pvp and still crushed almost every eoa or other self-proclaimed "legit pvper" (lol).
(Sin)cerely Kain
General speaking any GF DPS build is based on crit and power .Min max.Defense comes third.T.Vorpal and they are true good single target hitters.As it is WAi by definition of Conq path. Add a bonding companion in our days with 3 offense slots..and you are done.
Ofcourse in a CN run any decent CW will outdps them by nearly 2x.
This is not an attack to any DPS Gf ,i just state the obvious.I actually like the people that explore other paths and play differently.And it t is fun to have great single target ability.But in 90% of the game a DPS GF will not have any chance to shine.Just the way game mechanics-dungeons-adds are in place.
What we have here is an orchestrated nerf campaign based on false assumptions ,data manipulation,and facts distortion.
Posting just an ACT. Edemo where single target is king. probably 3-4 mega buffers around ,including a geared tact Gf buffer..that buffs the DPS GF. DPS classes in that run deliberately used buff powers in order to come second.
And all that to present a nerf demand..becasue..i don't know because.Someone ask them ;)We do not threaten them in DPS. i asked one nerf crusader..how many such GF DPS exist in the server?he said "three"
So because of three GFs (3) whole class must be nerfed because..i don't know.
And as about clinches and roles..someone should read the Conq tooltip.
let's don't start this...CONTROL Wizzards will not like it.
...And GFs will not get a nerf except maybe ITF and bull .Anvil was already indirectly nerfed by the maze engine boon. GFs will always trioumph because.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7XVcqZodAM :P :P
(nothing personal to anyone,i just like the scene :0 )
0
thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
What we have here is an orchestrated ner campaign based on false assumptions ,data manipulation,and facts distortion.
Posting just an ACT. Edemo where single target is king. probably 3-4 mega buffers around ,including a geared tact Gf buffer..that buffs the DPS GF. CWs in question deliberately used buff powers in order to come second.
And all that to present a nerf demand..becasue..i don't know because.Someone ask them ;)We do not threaten them in DPS. i asked one CW..how many such DPS exist in the server?he said "three"
So because of three GFs (3) whole class must be nerfed because..i don't know.
And as about clinches and roles..someone should read the Conq tooltip.
let's don't start this...CONTROL Wizzards will not like it.
Which is the best single target rotation. You know me nyriel, you know I do not hate GFs, I am fine with you buffing and tanking, but when you are literally doing more damage than any other class in the game, (GWF, SW included), then I have an issue.
Also, I have ran with that GF in CN, if you really need a video of that as well, I can get 1 and yes, he beats me on AoE, but how about this, I challenge anyone else on this forum, GWF and SW included, to beat me.
And to that person saying tr isn't relevant in pve, well, he should probably be quiet as he is merely exposing his ignorance.
Anyone who thinks that a dps isn't a contender for top dps this mod, really has no conception of the damage potential of a SM Conq GF.
And no other class is a contender? Any skilled player can combat the GF. I've played enough to know this. (every class in this game) Yes it is true. Conq build GF is disgusting. But thats no excuse that other classes can't beat it. I think we can both agree, other classes dominate the GF. Don't agree? PLAY ONE.
Here is edemo, a tr a CW and a GF.
Here is GF:
Here is TR:
GF is using rank 8s and an augment, tr has a bonding pet and rank 12s. AFAIK, that is literally the best pve tr on the server. You can bet any player from any class you like (with the exception of buglocks, but those will be fixed anyhow at some point) against a good dps GF, I will bet the GF takes the lead for DPS.
My favorite part is how you compare the GF to other classes that aren't relevant in PvE anymore. The TR? Really dude? what is this MOD5? lmao. Compare the GF to a real class like a Warlock or a GWF because we both know those 2 classes alone take the cake in DPS, and surpass the GF by millions. please also understand I'm coming from a PvP standpoint also. But in this case, Im talking strict PvE.
See the thing is, even though it is the case that TR or CW aren't the top dogs for dps, a GF SHOULD STILL NOT BE DOING MORE DAMAGE THAN THEM. This is because a GF is a utility class. I could argue for CW and GF being equal, but at no point, should GF be doing massive amounts more than a CW, considering the class offers far more utility in terms of buffs (read: itf).
Eh ...
GF should not be doing as much damage as CW. GF doesn't even need DPS to justify itself in a party because the buffs are good and it tanks well. Letting it DPS on top of that just recreates the problems that CW got nerfed for.
Sharp can you duplicate this result with another Gf please?In a CN run?
i will be present ofcourse as Healadin.No Dc and buffing.each to his own damage. You,me ,and i will invite a friend of mine a CW at 3,1k Il.Maybe one 3,1Hr trapper aswell.And let's see if the Gf can outdps them.
i can invite GWf instead of cw/hr aswell.(When and if i see Grimm lately)
As i said one Snow Horse reward.130k.Not much but this is what i can spare
Ah..and in preview ofcourse.no sh boons.
Edit:i can't wait to get my horse!!! \o/
0
thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
Sharp can you duplicate this result with another Gf please?In a CN run?
i will be present ofcourse as Healadin.No Dc and buffing.each to his own damage. You,me ,and i will invite a friend of mine a CW at 3,1k Il.Maybe one 3,1Hr trapper aswell.And let's see if the Gf can outdps them.
i can invite GWf instead of cw/hr aswell.(When and if i see Grimm lately)
As i said one Snow Horse reward.130k.Not much but this is what i can spare
Ah..and in preview ofcourse.no sh boons.
Edit:i can't wait to get my horse!!! \o/
This challenge isn't fair and you know it. Of the entire games population, maybe 5% play GF. Of the 5% playing GF, maybe 10% play a dps spec. Of the 10% playing the dps spec, maybe 20% are actually good at it and over that 20%, maybe 40% have gear. You basically asking for a 0.0004% of the game population, which is a 1 in 2500 player. I only know of 3 geared DPS GFs, Snoo, Lilith and Bethal, I do not know if bethal and lilith are any good and the only 1 I play with regularly is Snoo. The only way for me to take up this challenge, is for me to level a GF from scratch and do the gear + boon grind, which will take 6-8 weeks, or for someone I trust, @itbls, @silverkelt or @wixxgs1cht for example, to do it. If you really want me to, I can do it and yes, I can prove to you that it can be done.
The point is, at a high end, GF has the potential to do more damage than any other class. The fact that that particular piece of information isn't utilized, isn't the issue at hand, because sooner or later people will catch wind of it and sooner or later, GF will become the fotm dps class and you know what, if you were smart, you would be working with me for having the classes dps balanced in a way thats beneficial to the class, making soloing easier for other paragons while toning down the upper potential of conq, rather than working against me. Why is that? Simple. Even if the class isn't nerfed now, sooner or later it will be and wouldn't it be nice if you helped facilitate a balance pass that wasn't just a flat out nerf, but rather something that made the class better as a whole?
The way I see it now:
1) DPS GF 2) Other classes ..... ... Tactician/Protector GF
Wouldn't it be nice for tact/prot to get a damage buff, to make soloing easier for them, whilst Conq got brought down a notch, so it wasn't performing above everyone else?
What we have here is an orchestrated ner campaign based on false assumptions ,data manipulation,and facts distortion.
Posting just an ACT. Edemo where single target is king. probably 3-4 mega buffers around ,including a geared tact Gf buffer..that buffs the DPS GF. CWs in question deliberately used buff powers in order to come second.
And all that to present a nerf demand..becasue..i don't know because.Someone ask them ;)We do not threaten them in DPS. i asked one CW..how many such DPS exist in the server?he said "three"
So because of three GFs (3) whole class must be nerfed because..i don't know.
And as about clinches and roles..someone should read the Conq tooltip.
let's don't start this...CONTROL Wizzards will not like it.
Which is the best single target rotation. You know me nyriel, you know I do not hate GFs, I am fine with you buffing and tanking, but when you are literally doing more damage than any other class in the game, (GWF, SW included), then I have an issue.
Also, I have ran with that GF in CN, if you really need a video of that as well, I can get 1 and yes, he beats me on AoE, but how about this, I challenge anyone else on this forum, GWF and SW included, to beat me.
And to that person saying tr isn't relevant in pve, well, he should probably be quiet as he is merely exposing his ignorance.
Here you go again showing a TR against a GF. this is ridiculous. You clearly have no idea what your even saying, but simply being biased, one sided and ignorant. You say you have no problems with GF's but it seems to me you are going this far to prove a false point, which means you care. And whats even funnier is that you say "SW and GWF included" Included where? Theres no proof! nothing! Please, show me where that is true because I have pictures and video of guardian fighters never even coming close in damage. what I also found funny is the graphs and comparisons you made. Like hyperborean said, those numbers and graphs are jokes. those numbers could of been caused by anything. The bottom line is that the CW has more DPS than a tank, thats it. No graph, or picture can say other wise because 1 that could be numbers you pulled from elmos world lol, or 2 those numbers could be a fabricated form of the truth. Meaning, there could of been a lot of factors into it. Like I said earlier, if the GF out does you in a dungeon in damage, something is wrong and you'd need to reevaluate your build. That could be anything from race, to boons, to feats and powers, to enchants (defense, offense, utility, armor, weapon) and companions to even skill, to really if you have your class down to the bone or not. Because the GF is a buff/debuff class for PvE. Nothing more, nothing less. In the video all you have showed was a GF in a joke/pug comp. Comparing a TR to a GF? what is this a comedy? those numbers are numbers by people queueing up, not by people who know their class. Clearly thats the case when a GF has 81 Million total DPS.
EDIT: And no sorry, the GF DOES NOT have the potential then "other classes" to surpass them in DPS. Not sure if you've ever seen a warlock in a dungeon. Not some pug, but a good one. A GWF and Warlock? yeah okay, higher DPS than them? yeah okay mabe in a dream world.
A good example is in a dungeon (BASED ON REAL NUMBERS)
IMG_5560.jpg
IMG_5559.jpg
This picture makes every word you said obsolete. and even "granted" the GF's buffs present in the dungeon, that is no excuse for a word you said. neck and neck in dps (Warlock/GWF), the GF, comes no where NEAR them, but that is besides the point. Thats simply because he is tactician. Your point makes no sense, and this is an example from a real situation. Even if this GF in this case wasn't (DPS) I will use your picture/video as the example.
Look who took top DPS in the dungeon and compare this to the video. Do you see the difference in DPS? More than 30 million in damage. Thats damage that is unfathomable to a GF. I have Numbers I don't think any GF can ever achieve. Why? BECAUSE THAT IS NOT WHAT WE WERE MADE TO DO.
It is not,but to the other side.I should have asked for a Gf at the same IL as my guildie CW.i forgot that.
"Of the entire games population, maybe 5% play GF. Of the 5% playing GF, maybe 10% play a dps spec. Of the 10% playing the dps spec, maybe 20% are actually good at it and over that 20%, maybe 40% have gear. You basically asking for a 0.0004% of the game population, which is a 1 in 2500 player."
So you basically came to the forums to ask for a wide population class nerf,based on one player performance?great.
" I only know of 3 geared DPS GFs, Snoo, Lilith and Bethal, I do not know if bethal and lilith are any good and the only 1 I play with regularly is Snoo. "
If you know only three and actually you have seen playing just one,maybe he would be safest not to jump to conclusions then.NW is a weird game full of bugs...you know...
"The only way for me to take up this challenge, is for me to level a GF from scratch and do the gear + boon grind, which will take 6-8 weeks, or for someone I trust, @itbls, @silverkelt or @wixxgs1cht for example, to do it. If you really want me to, I can do it and yes, I can prove to you that it can be done."
I could tease you to level one,but honestly cause i know you i don't want to put you into this.Cause you will just lose your time ,nothing more.
"The point is, at a high end, GF has the potential to do more damage than any other class. "
The point is you cannot prove anything,you were offered a challenge to prove it and you said ah i don't know anyone except one.
Bring one GF DPS since "this is the point" into a cn run to put him vis-a-avis against a CW and a trapper of my choise.or even a GWf.Same IL ,no sh boons ofcourse.
"The fact that that particular piece of information isn't utilized, isn't the issue at hand, because sooner or later people will catch wind of it and sooner or later, GF will become the fotm dps class "
My gf is a hybrid,jack of all trades master of none.no SH boons and a crappy bronze enchantement. I can hit 40k WMS,96k tide of iron,327k lunging strikes ,100k crushing surge.So... that proves your point?
No,because in the same runs GWF friends will hit 310 Sure Strikes,1m IBS and i don't know what else. In the same time i will deliver 4 att wills any GWf will have delivered 7. in order to hit hard i must re apply buffs,(mark tide of iron) losing time while GWF just spams 300k att wills.
Just in 5 minutes run i will have 20% of a same IL GWF.
numbers do deceive in this case as i showed up in the start.
but people that don't play Gf will hear "96k tide of iron?????Nerf!!!!!top 1 DPS" ,and they will not see the graph in the end of the run when poor Gf will have 20% of a GWF damage.
So all this whole thing is ignorance of a class.
------------------------------------
As for the DPS Gfs in general. it is WAI ,they were designed this way from day one,for a number of reasons commercial,culturals,but let's put this to the side. Are they viable in a dungeon?
No. Two cases.
1.They are the only Gf in the party. since they have mixmaxxed their build for DPS will lack elements of a utility build. AP gain,stamina gain,incoming healing ,recovery. So in the end they will do 40% of a same IL GWQF that could come to its place ,while they will provide poor buffs and services to the party.notice i don't say ITF.a catastrophe.
They could provide ITF.but their overall positioning ,aggro management will be poor.Not because of lack of skill,but because the ideal positioning of a GF buffer inside mobs and the ideal positioning of a melee DPS ,is not the same.
2.There is a second Gf in the party. in a serious run,the DPS Gf will take aggro of the buffer one,adds will be splitted allt he time to two groups.the smaller one will stick to the buffer,the biggest one will go after the DPS one cause of extra threat made by his attacks. real DPS will be caught in the middle. A mess. This is current trivialized content might not be so important and noticeable,but when and if harder content comes into play,this will be a bad situation for the party. Why not to take a classic Gf buffer and a destro GWF instead ????
--------------------------------------
0
silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
Im refraining from leaving feedback and/or act recording out and forwarding logs until I see it as a more widespread issue.
Right now there is a highly limited amount of full dps GFS.. however we know it will spread, as why wouldnt it, the issue here isnt the leveling gf, or the tank built recovery gfs (who maximizes defense and recovery) this is clearly gfs who went all crit build doing stupid crazy damage. In addition, due to how we all know most of the game isnt all that difficult per se, there is no need to maximize recovery over crit. Sure you will be less immune more often and ITF cant be ripped off as much.. but we know it wont matter in todays game.
They are one of the two best buffers in the game, they are probably now the best tank in the game, the ideal that they can also be the top dps? sort of ludicrous.
If the op healadin being tops dps is wrong, so isnt gfs ability to be tops.
It will have to be brought more inline at some point.
Again this is a top down look, Im not saying leveling gfs dps should be altarted, but the top end potential will have to be. Where does that come from? I dont know yet.
I spent about 2 hours yesterday trying to figure out things .. but as of yet do not have enough answers.
I asked for one of the servers top GFS dps'ers to take a look at something and he gave me his thoughts as well.
What we do know.. its really funny that cryptic thought they had to buff one of the most powerful classes in the game..
THIS right there clearly shows you how far cryptic is out of touch with the reality of thier own game.
again.. im not opposed to those gf buffs, however, the entire GF package at this time offers a little too much all the way around.
If the same complaints that are heraled at one time at the CW. (too much damage and control together.. no need for other classes)
then the same can be said of the GF at the current meta.. Im not saying its that wide spread of a issue for a couple of reasons.
A. There are not that many GFs on the server.. long years of neglect until recently , sort of made them out of style. B. Many gfs build for just tanking/buffing services, do not explore dps potential at all.
However, again, if people start realizing the true GF potential, you and I both know it will spread.
I think everyone needs to calm down some, this isnt exactly a full thread about GF nerfing, its more of , how DO we limit the top end potential of the current GF model? without making the poor class go back to spending 25 mins going through a mini lair.
We will need to examine this further before it gets too out of hand.
0
beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
So... here's a thing.
If MEGADEEPS GF becomes FotM, and then Cryptic decides, "oopsie, that's not how we meant this thing to be balanced", chances are the subsequent nerf will overcompensate, and it will gimp all GFs regardless of the build they run.
And I'm sure pretty much everyone would like to avoid that situation.
An ACT from Edemo...where the alt of the same GWf that did 16m IBS to traven with the same group,goes first in Edemo.
A video that shows completelly nothing since it is from the buffer perspective.Completely useless.
A picture of the Gf in question..wher he is in different instance and the stats are not shown...why was so difficult to get him a photo ??He was in the party of the CW nerf crusader.
Another dude steps in and says he asked one fellow dps GF.But didn't told us what the other Gf said.Why??Did it said it was WAI?Or something suspicious is going on?
Thenerf CW crusader is challenged to prove his point by running a CN run.Nada.He does not agree.Nerf crusader knows only three DPS GFs.cannot run a cn run with video with me to prove his point.
What is his point?DPS GFs do too much damage?Well let us go in a CN run then.Nope.he can't.
Why is he doing these?To stop DPS GFs build spread?How he will stop the public spread?By posting and distributing this info on the forums....lol
Ofcourse i cannot speak cause i don't minmax.Guy runs with minmaxed chars.Obviously Freya is minmaxed....?Nope.later Cw tell us that freya is rank8.
------------------
After failing to prove anything ,no real video just an ACT of his buddies ,after refusal to rest any DPS Gf other than the rather ...ehm..nefarious case,challenges the rest...to prove the opposite.Lol
Comments
Guardian Fighter
TLO
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1221446/the-future-of-the-gf/p1 Existing Problems Still In The Guardian Fighter
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/comment/12984912m
Feat Changes I'd like to see in The Guardian Fighter
Guardian Fighter
TLO
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1221446/the-future-of-the-gf/p1 Existing Problems Still In The Guardian Fighter
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/comment/12984912m
Feat Changes I'd like to see in The Guardian Fighter
Enough to take to sharpen his GF. Not forgetting the tricks that call the battle gives a lot of protection and resistance (most importantly don't forget to equip stone of an elven battle). Take the ring of ambush (invisibility), turn on/HardTargetLock 1, Paladin artifact, main dial overall level 3.5 + and you are immortal.
The call to battle, Bull and anvil (appeal in battle, Knight's challenge, anvil), and who kill in PvP this GF, except the second GF?
Do not believe? Then invite the Drider, for any class except GF, we show how to kill with a single blow (4 k + characters, with rare exceptions, you need 3-4 skills ).
Here is edemo, a tr a CW and a GF.
Here is GF:
Here is TR:
GF is using rank 8s and an augment, tr has a bonding pet and rank 12s. AFAIK, that is literally the best pve tr on the server. You can bet any player from any class you like (with the exception of buglocks, but those will be fixed anyhow at some point) against a good dps GF, I will bet the GF takes the lead for DPS.
Guardian Fighter
TLO
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1221446/the-future-of-the-gf/p1 Existing Problems Still In The Guardian Fighter
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/comment/12984912m
Feat Changes I'd like to see in The Guardian Fighter
(Why am I bothering to comment? I don't even care who gets Paingiver....)
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
Guardian Fighter
TLO
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1221446/the-future-of-the-gf/p1 Existing Problems Still In The Guardian Fighter
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/comment/12984912m
Feat Changes I'd like to see in The Guardian Fighter
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
I understand that my English is not so good as desired (but some are limited to smaller, but this controversy).
Skill is called: Into the Fray,
About how many PvP battles was my person, let me put it this way: 600 days multiplied by 6 (taking the average value of the experience of the game and the amount of PvP battles) is 3600 (this is the minimum). I play from January 2014 year in this game, and rank me to PvP players.
And I play on PC.
And still waiting on the server PC Drider.
I think the game on XBOX and PC is different. And describe the difference between joystick and keyboard is not worth it? Or are you not aware that they are different?
Sincerely and with best wishes, your opponent in this dispute.
im getting sick of all those asscracks raging against ITF, while i personally never used ITF in pvp and still crushed almost every eoa or other self-proclaimed "legit pvper" (lol).
(Sin)cerely
Kain
Damage effectiveness is 250% on average even. That's another sign buffs/debuffs are the problem here.
I suspect this is one or more of the old broken mod 5 sets at work here, maybe some weapon enchant on top of that. And of course a buff cleric.
People are right that this is a problem for only 1% of players.
In fact, I've seen lots of "dps" guardians lately that get killed, don't know how to keep threat or refuse to act as a defender at all. That always leads to a fail. Please stop telling people GFs are a viable or even overpowered damage dealers. They are not.
Guardian Fighter
TLO
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1221446/the-future-of-the-gf/p1 Existing Problems Still In The Guardian Fighter
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/comment/12984912m
Feat Changes I'd like to see in The Guardian Fighter
Guardian Fighter
TLO
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1221446/the-future-of-the-gf/p1 Existing Problems Still In The Guardian Fighter
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/comment/12984912m
Feat Changes I'd like to see in The Guardian Fighter
Add a bonding companion in our days with 3 offense slots..and you are done.
http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/483940/envys-dps-guardian-fighter-compendium/p1
old but the basics are there
Ofcourse in a CN run any decent CW will outdps them by nearly 2x.
This is not an attack to any DPS Gf ,i just state the obvious.I actually like the people that explore other paths and play differently.And it t is fun to have great single target ability.But in 90% of the game a DPS GF will not have any chance to shine.Just the way game mechanics-dungeons-adds are in place.
Posting just an ACT.
Edemo where single target is king.
probably 3-4 mega buffers around ,including a geared tact Gf buffer..that buffs the DPS GF.
DPS classes in that run deliberately used buff powers in order to come second.
And all that to present a nerf demand..becasue..i don't know because.Someone ask them ;)We do not threaten them in DPS.
i asked one nerf crusader..how many such GF DPS exist in the server?he said "three"
So because of three GFs (3) whole class must be nerfed because..i don't know.
And as about clinches and roles..someone should read the Conq tooltip.
let's don't start this...CONTROL Wizzards will not like it.
------------------------
DPS classes' hatred against GFs is nothing new...:P ..nor their nerfing crusades
http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/512768/gf-hatred-in-dungeons-needs-to-stop/p1
...And GFs will not get a nerf except maybe ITF and bull .Anvil was already indirectly nerfed by the maze engine boon.
(nothing personal to anyone,i just like the scene :0 )
CW is using
Which is the best single target rotation. You know me nyriel, you know I do not hate GFs, I am fine with you buffing and tanking, but when you are literally doing more damage than any other class in the game, (GWF, SW included), then I have an issue.
Also, I have ran with that GF in CN, if you really need a video of that as well, I can get 1 and yes, he beats me on AoE, but how about this, I challenge anyone else on this forum, GWF and SW included, to beat me.
And to that person saying tr isn't relevant in pve, well, he should probably be quiet as he is merely exposing his ignorance.
GF should not be doing as much damage as CW. GF doesn't even need DPS to justify itself in a party because the buffs are good and it tanks well. Letting it DPS on top of that just recreates the problems that CW got nerfed for.
i will be present ofcourse as Healadin.No Dc and buffing.each to his own damage.
You,me ,and i will invite a friend of mine a CW at 3,1k Il.Maybe one 3,1Hr trapper aswell.And let's see if the Gf can outdps them.
i can invite GWf instead of cw/hr aswell.(When and if i see Grimm lately)
As i said one Snow Horse reward.130k.Not much but this is what i can spare
Ah..and in preview ofcourse.no sh boons.
Edit:i can't wait to get my horse!!! \o/
The point is, at a high end, GF has the potential to do more damage than any other class. The fact that that particular piece of information isn't utilized, isn't the issue at hand, because sooner or later people will catch wind of it and sooner or later, GF will become the fotm dps class and you know what, if you were smart, you would be working with me for having the classes dps balanced in a way thats beneficial to the class, making soloing easier for other paragons while toning down the upper potential of conq, rather than working against me. Why is that? Simple. Even if the class isn't nerfed now, sooner or later it will be and wouldn't it be nice if you helped facilitate a balance pass that wasn't just a flat out nerf, but rather something that made the class better as a whole?
The way I see it now:
1) DPS GF
2) Other classes
.....
...
Tactician/Protector GF
Wouldn't it be nice for tact/prot to get a damage buff, to make soloing easier for them, whilst Conq got brought down a notch, so it wasn't performing above everyone else?
EDIT: And no sorry, the GF DOES NOT have the potential then "other classes" to surpass them in DPS. Not sure if you've ever seen a warlock in a dungeon. Not some pug, but a good one. A GWF and Warlock? yeah okay, higher DPS than them? yeah okay mabe in a dream world.
A good example is in a dungeon (BASED ON REAL NUMBERS)
IMG_5560.jpg
IMG_5559.jpg
This picture makes every word you said obsolete. and even "granted" the GF's buffs present in the dungeon, that is no excuse for a word you said. neck and neck in dps (Warlock/GWF), the GF, comes no where NEAR them, but that is besides the point. Thats simply because he is tactician. Your point makes no sense, and this is an example from a real situation. Even if this GF in this case wasn't (DPS) I will use your picture/video as the example.
Look who took top DPS in the dungeon and compare this to the video. Do you see the difference in DPS? More than 30 million in damage. Thats damage that is unfathomable to a GF. I have Numbers I don't think any GF can ever achieve. Why? BECAUSE THAT IS NOT WHAT WE WERE MADE TO DO.
Guardian Fighter
TLO
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1221446/the-future-of-the-gf/p1 Existing Problems Still In The Guardian Fighter
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/comment/12984912m
Feat Changes I'd like to see in The Guardian Fighter
It is not,but to the other side.I should have asked for a Gf at the same IL as my guildie CW.i forgot that.
"Of the entire games population, maybe 5% play GF. Of the 5% playing GF, maybe 10% play a dps spec. Of the 10% playing the dps spec, maybe 20% are actually good at it and over that 20%, maybe 40% have gear. You basically asking for a 0.0004% of the game population, which is a 1 in 2500 player."
So you basically came to the forums to ask for a wide population class nerf,based on one player performance?great.
" I only know of 3 geared DPS GFs, Snoo, Lilith and Bethal, I do not know if bethal and lilith are any good and the only 1 I play with regularly is Snoo. "
If you know only three and actually you have seen playing just one,maybe he would be safest not to jump to conclusions then.NW is a weird game full of bugs...you know...
"The only way for me to take up this challenge, is for me to level a GF from scratch and do the gear + boon grind, which will take 6-8 weeks, or for someone I trust, @itbls, @silverkelt or @wixxgs1cht for example, to do it. If you really want me to, I can do it and yes, I can prove to you that it can be done."
I could tease you to level one,but honestly cause i know you i don't want to put you into this.Cause you will just lose your time ,nothing more.
"The point is, at a high end, GF has the potential to do more damage than any other class. "
The point is you cannot prove anything,you were offered a challenge to prove it and you said ah i don't know anyone except one.
Bring one GF DPS since "this is the point" into a cn run to put him vis-a-avis against a CW and a trapper of my choise.or even a GWf.Same IL ,no sh boons ofcourse.
"The fact that that particular piece of information isn't utilized, isn't the issue at hand, because sooner or later people will catch wind of it and sooner or later, GF will become the fotm dps class "
All geared GFs you see around tried to do damage.I mean all.Ask anyone you know,we all in some runs slotted a dps rotation "to see what we can do".
And while it is fun to do it in pug runs we don't do it in normal runs cause we don't want to have the treatment the guy had years ago.
http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/512768/gf-hatred-in-dungeons-needs-to-stop/p1
My gf is a hybrid,jack of all trades master of none.no SH boons and a crappy bronze enchantement.
I can hit 40k WMS,96k tide of iron,327k lunging strikes ,100k crushing surge.So... that proves your point?
No,because in the same runs GWF friends will hit 310 Sure Strikes,1m IBS and i don't know what else.
In the same time i will deliver 4 att wills any GWf will have delivered 7.
in order to hit hard i must re apply buffs,(mark tide of iron) losing time while GWF just spams 300k att wills.
Just in 5 minutes run i will have 20% of a same IL GWF.
numbers do deceive in this case as i showed up in the start.
but people that don't play Gf will hear "96k tide of iron?????Nerf!!!!!top 1 DPS" ,and they will not see the graph in the end of the run when poor Gf will have 20% of a GWF damage.
So all this whole thing is ignorance of a class.
------------------------------------
As for the DPS Gfs in general.
it is WAI ,they were designed this way from day one,for a number of reasons commercial,culturals,but let's put this to the side.
Are they viable in a dungeon?
No.
Two cases.
1.They are the only Gf in the party.
since they have mixmaxxed their build for DPS will lack elements of a utility build.
AP gain,stamina gain,incoming healing ,recovery.
So in the end they will do 40% of a same IL GWQF that could come to its place ,while they will provide poor buffs and services to the party.notice i don't say ITF.a catastrophe.
They could provide ITF.but their overall positioning ,aggro management will be poor.Not because of lack of skill,but because the ideal positioning of a GF buffer inside mobs and the ideal positioning of a melee DPS ,is not the same.
2.There is a second Gf in the party.
in a serious run,the DPS Gf will take aggro of the buffer one,adds will be splitted allt he time to two groups.the smaller one will stick to the buffer,the biggest one will go after the DPS one cause of extra threat made by his attacks.
real DPS will be caught in the middle.
A mess.
This is current trivialized content might not be so important and noticeable,but when and if harder content comes into play,this will be a bad situation for the party.
Why not to take a classic Gf buffer and a destro GWF instead ????
--------------------------------------
Right now there is a highly limited amount of full dps GFS.. however we know it will spread, as why wouldnt it, the issue here isnt the leveling gf, or the tank built recovery gfs (who maximizes defense and recovery) this is clearly gfs who went all crit build doing stupid crazy damage. In addition, due to how we all know most of the game isnt all that difficult per se, there is no need to maximize recovery over crit. Sure you will be less immune more often and ITF cant be ripped off as much.. but we know it wont matter in todays game.
They are one of the two best buffers in the game, they are probably now the best tank in the game, the ideal that they can also be the top dps? sort of ludicrous.
If the op healadin being tops dps is wrong, so isnt gfs ability to be tops.
It will have to be brought more inline at some point.
Again this is a top down look, Im not saying leveling gfs dps should be altarted, but the top end potential will have to be. Where does that come from? I dont know yet.
I spent about 2 hours yesterday trying to figure out things .. but as of yet do not have enough answers.
I asked for one of the servers top GFS dps'ers to take a look at something and he gave me his thoughts as well.
What we do know.. its really funny that cryptic thought they had to buff one of the most powerful classes in the game..
THIS right there clearly shows you how far cryptic is out of touch with the reality of thier own game.
again.. im not opposed to those gf buffs, however, the entire GF package at this time offers a little too much all the way around.
If the same complaints that are heraled at one time at the CW. (too much damage and control together.. no need for other classes)
then the same can be said of the GF at the current meta.. Im not saying its that wide spread of a issue for a couple of reasons.
A. There are not that many GFs on the server.. long years of neglect until recently , sort of made them out of style.
B. Many gfs build for just tanking/buffing services, do not explore dps potential at all.
However, again, if people start realizing the true GF potential, you and I both know it will spread.
I think everyone needs to calm down some, this isnt exactly a full thread about GF nerfing, its more of , how DO we limit the top end potential of the current GF model? without making the poor class go back to spending 25 mins going through a mini lair.
We will need to examine this further before it gets too out of hand.
If MEGADEEPS GF becomes FotM, and then Cryptic decides, "oopsie, that's not how we meant this thing to be balanced", chances are the subsequent nerf will overcompensate, and it will gimp all GFs regardless of the build they run.
And I'm sure pretty much everyone would like to avoid that situation.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
A video that shows completelly nothing since it is from the buffer perspective.Completely useless.
A picture of the Gf in question..wher he is in different instance and the stats are not shown...why was so difficult to get him a photo ??He was in the party of the CW nerf crusader.
Another dude steps in and says he asked one fellow dps GF.But didn't told us what the other Gf said.Why??Did it said it was WAI?Or something suspicious is going on?
Thenerf CW crusader is challenged to prove his point by running a CN run.Nada.He does not agree.Nerf crusader knows only three DPS GFs.cannot run a cn run with video with me to prove his point.
What is his point?DPS GFs do too much damage?Well let us go in a CN run then.Nope.he can't.
Why is he doing these?To stop DPS GFs build spread?How he will stop the public spread?By posting and distributing this info on the forums....lol
Ofcourse i cannot speak cause i don't minmax.Guy runs with minmaxed chars.Obviously Freya is minmaxed....?Nope.later Cw tell us that freya is rank8.
------------------
After failing to prove anything ,no real video just an ACT of his buddies ,after refusal to rest any DPS Gf other than the rather ...ehm..nefarious case,challenges the rest...to prove the opposite.Lol