There really aren't that many ways to make a sword that doesn't make it look like, you know, a sword. Anything more advanced would likely be "laser sword" like and probably copyrighty infringy... The real question is why, when everyone else has directed energy weapons would anyone bother with a melee weapon. In the 26th century the weapons should be so far beyond swords and knives as to be utterly unimaginable in the 21st century...and that's the problem...a lack of imagination.
First off... Klingons.
Second... just like with modern combat... when all else fails its better to have something to fall back on.
Just because a civilization has advanced so far that they have energy based weapons doesn't mean they've eliminated the chance of encountering melee weapons, let alone the need for any kind of melee weapon. If you think about it... how effective is that rifle gonna be if, by some chance, an enemy gets close enough to knock the barrel away from him and pulls a knife? What do you do then? Really got two options: Use the gun as a club or pull a knife.
Besides... The Emperor's Sword could be ceremonial, kinda like how modern US Marine Sabers are ceremonial.
Sure, but the point you miss is that, with technology so advanced as it is, there should never be an opportunity to NEED to fight hand to hand. We're talking about people who literally have the ability to destroy matter and reassemble it into functional human beings...they should have weapons that simply vaporize anyone who violates the proximity barrier. Our characters have personal shields - melee weapons should be entirely useless against them. You have to think BIGGER...
Proximity Vaprorization is most likely possible... but at the same time unethical and impractical.
And personal shields are not the end all defense. I can think of three instances where an advanced culture still uses melee weapons despite the existance of personal shields. Both Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic games, Dune, and the Protoss in StarCraft.
Hell... there's melee combat in Mass Effect 3 with the Omni Blade, and they have personal Kinetic Barriers!
Just because you have advanced technology doesn't mean you should forsake ALL aspects of combat. Because there will always be that one instance where that advanced technology will fail. Then what do you do?
In short I am thinking bigger. I am looking at a picture where one should not be so reliant on advanced technology for everything.
Its a case of better to have it and not need it, then need it and not have it.
By your logic, the medieval shield should not be used because of guns. Well... it still lives on today with modern Riot Shields used by Police forces across the world.
anyone so arrogant as to think ANY weapon is no longer dangerous just because it is primitive compared to what they have available to them...are usually the ones who end up getting killed BY that weapon
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
There really aren't that many ways to make a sword that doesn't make it look like, you know, a sword. Anything more advanced would likely be "laser sword" like and probably copyrighty infringy...
We already have those. The Nukara Rep swords become laser weapons of the color glow of the NPC's weapons' fire. They can also block and redirect energy weapons if you swing at the incoming bolts. The whole Shattering Harmonics set is for Jedi builds, with the sword, a low armor/high dodge body piece, status immunity, speed boosts, and a Force Sense clicky.
Guns and knives... Look at Stargate, for example - almost all of the advanced races in that universe had entirely novel weapons. There was rarely ANY hand-to-hand combat unless it was a primitive race that SG1 had to fight. Sci-Fi is literally an unlimited reservoir from which to draw new ideas but we're stuck with pew pew and slice slice...bang... A lack of imagination is a problem.
On the other hand... SG-1 also had a case where an advanced species actually had problems BECAUSE of their reliance on advanced technology. The Asgard actually suffered because they couldn't come up with a less advanced solution to fight the Replicators. They literally could not concieve of using a chemically propelled projectile as a solution. They kept trying to make better and better technology... only for the Replicators to eat it up like candy.
And also by your logic... the KLINGONS shouldn't even have melee weapons because they have advanced tech. Yet they have, and love using, melee weapons. And then we have the Jem'Hadar, who have polearms.
Sure, but the point you miss is that, with technology so advanced as it is, there should never be an opportunity to NEED to fight hand to hand. We're talking about people who literally have the ability to destroy matter and reassemble it into functional human beings...they should have weapons that simply vaporize anyone who violates the proximity barrier. Our characters have personal shields - melee weapons should be entirely useless against them. You have to think BIGGER...
Proximity Vaprorization is most likely possible... but at the same time unethical and impractical.
And personal shields are not the end all defense. I can think of three instances where an advanced culture still uses melee weapons despite the existance of personal shields. Both Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic games, Dune, and the Protoss in StarCraft.
Hell... there's melee combat in Mass Effect 3 with the Omni Blade, and they have personal Kinetic Barriers!
Just because you have advanced technology doesn't mean you should forsake ALL aspects of combat. Because there will always be that one instance where that advanced technology will fail. Then what do you do?
In short I am thinking bigger. I am looking at a picture where one should not be so reliant on advanced technology for everything.
Its a case of better to have it and not need it, then need it and not have it.
By your logic, the medieval shield should not be used because of guns. Well... it still lives on today with modern Riot Shields used by Police forces across the world.
Yeah, yeah, the point I'm trying to make is that all of your examples are based on 21st century thinking about 1st century combat. The 26th century is so far ahead of all of that such concepts should be so ancient that they don't even get taught at Star Fleet Academy. New technologies and evolutionary thinking mean that the combat of the 26th century would be wholly different than anything you've before seen. Directed energy weapons are one thing, but the concept of hand-to-hand combat would be so far removed from reality for the residents of that time as to make it almost profane to consider it. Annihilation through transporter fields, vaporization by Thalaron pulses, total neutronic reversal with proton beams...we have all of those things but what do we get stuck with? Guns and knives... Look at Stargate, for example - almost all of the advanced races in that universe had entirely novel weapons. There was rarely ANY hand-to-hand combat unless it was a primitive race that SG1 had to fight. Sci-Fi is literally an unlimited reservoir from which to draw new ideas but we're stuck with pew pew and slice slice...bang... A lack of imagination is a problem.
If your troops don't train for melee, guess what your enemy is going to attack you with? Fictional worlds are entirely the creations of their authors, and by his fiat, if nobody trains with knives, that's that. In the real world, enemies train to fight their opponent's weaknesses. Training for martial arts in case a soldier runs out of ammo could require years. Knife training takes weeks. A knife never needs batteries, never runs out of ammo, and requires no elaborate maintenance cycle.
Sure, but the point you miss is that, with technology so advanced as it is, there should never be an opportunity to NEED to fight hand to hand. We're talking about people who literally have the ability to destroy matter and reassemble it into functional human beings...they should have weapons that simply vaporize anyone who violates the proximity barrier. Our characters have personal shields - melee weapons should be entirely useless against them. You have to think BIGGER...
Proximity Vaprorization is most likely possible... but at the same time unethical and impractical.
And personal shields are not the end all defense. I can think of three instances where an advanced culture still uses melee weapons despite the existance of personal shields. Both Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic games, Dune, and the Protoss in StarCraft.
Hell... there's melee combat in Mass Effect 3 with the Omni Blade, and they have personal Kinetic Barriers!
Just because you have advanced technology doesn't mean you should forsake ALL aspects of combat. Because there will always be that one instance where that advanced technology will fail. Then what do you do?
In short I am thinking bigger. I am looking at a picture where one should not be so reliant on advanced technology for everything.
Its a case of better to have it and not need it, then need it and not have it.
By your logic, the medieval shield should not be used because of guns. Well... it still lives on today with modern Riot Shields used by Police forces across the world.
Don't forget about Warhammer 40k, with power swords, chainswords, force weapons, daemon weapons, entrenching tools, choppas, stormhammers, lightning blades/claws, stuff like that. Even in the 41st and 42nd millennium, melee is still a thing. Because when that gun runs out of energy or ammo and you need to absolutely kill the enemy, you have to get in close. Unless you're a psyker.
Yeah, yeah, the point I'm trying to make is that all of your examples are based on 21st century thinking about 1st century combat. The 26th century is so far ahead of all of that such concepts should be so ancient that they don't even get taught at Star Fleet Academy. New technologies and evolutionary thinking mean that the combat of the 26th century would be wholly different than anything you've before seen. Directed energy weapons are one thing, but the concept of hand-to-hand combat would be so far removed from reality for the residents of that time as to make it almost profane to consider it. Annihilation through transporter fields, vaporization by Thalaron pulses, total neutronic reversal with proton beams...we have all of those things but what do we get stuck with? Guns and knives... Look at Stargate, for example - almost all of the advanced races in that universe had entirely novel weapons. There was rarely ANY hand-to-hand combat unless it was a primitive race that SG1 had to fight. Sci-Fi is literally an unlimited reservoir from which to draw new ideas but we're stuck with pew pew and slice slice...bang... A lack of imagination is a problem.
It's not a lack of imagination. It's grounded in real military history.
War is an endless race of arms. Clubs give way to swords (which are sturdier). Then armor is developed to protect against swords and similar weapons. This gives rise to the popularity of bows. Bows are countered with new designs in shields and formation fighting. Gunpowder changes the face of war not only with firearms, but with cannon. Then came automatic firearms, the weapon "so terrible, it would end warfare" because it's creator could not fathom anyone ordering their men to charge into a littoral hail of bullets. Later came armored vehicles, which support infantry advances into such fortified positions.
Today, the atomic weapons are considered the most powerful man has ever made. Currently, there is no reasonable counter to such things (which, many speculate, has resulted in one of the longest eras of world peace). Yet, it does not provide an answer to a conundrum which has plagued warfare since the age of clubs and rocks.
To hold captured territory, your force must have infantry. Today, we can bomb occupied territory into an uninhabitable hell-scape with our existing tech. We still need an infantry presence to occupy it, and this goes double for boarding actions in space. Since Star Trek does not go for the "droid/clone armies" angle, it must use members of it's established races. Since we need occupying troops, those troops must have infantry weapons suitable for any number of combat situations. Even a cursory glance at a handful of plausible scenarios leaves one thinking "man, a close combat weapon would be handy here".
What I never understood is why a sword from the 24th-25th century would look like an ancient sword, I mean sword-chucks surely should've been invented by now right?
There really aren't that many ways to make a sword that doesn't make it look like, you know, a sword. Anything more advanced would likely be "laser sword" like and probably copyrighty infringy... The real question is why, when everyone else has directed energy weapons would anyone bother with a melee weapon. In the 26th century the weapons should be so far beyond swords and knives as to be utterly unimaginable in the 21st century...and that's the problem...a lack of imagination.
Well then, you'll probably love the kit module for the ability that has been described as the "fidget spinner of death".
Emperor’s Execution Spinner
Most famously employed by Emperor Georgiou, this brutal metal disc deploys razor sharp blades, flying in an arc and slicing through all enemies inside it for heavy physical damage.
...I'm not sure which part of 'vaporize your enemy' is confusing everyone. You don't need to occupy an area if you've annihilated its inhabitants.
If vaporization of the enemy wholesale is your solution, you need not ever set foot on his planet. Just get a big space-rock and accelerate it to near c and voila: vaporized planet.
The object of war is seldom the wholesale slaughter of populations. One does not destroy that which he has gone to war to take. To take a thing requires troops who can secure it. Those troops will be in proximity to the enemy, who may bypass threat detection gear by getting into close combat range with melee weapons which can't be detected or remotely deactivated.
I have an Alt that uses the set. The clicky makes your screen lose color. All of the living things (NPCs, PCs, etc) glow, and you can see stealth characters. The set is even better if you have the telekinetic trait with its Force Push ability.
Fairly sure there was a Dr. Who story where two factions had all but exhausted their planets resources so had to regress technologically to simpler weapons like bows and arrows.
I have an Alt that uses the set. The clicky makes your screen lose color. All of the living things (NPCs, PCs, etc) glow, and you can see stealth characters. The set is even better if you have the telekinetic trait with its Force Push ability.
Or if Lib Borg you can use Borg Neural Blast which kinda looks like green Force Lightning.
...I'm not sure which part of 'vaporize your enemy' is confusing everyone. You don't need to occupy an area if you've annihilated its inhabitants.
If vaporization of the enemy wholesale is your solution, you need not ever set foot on his planet. Just get a big space-rock and accelerate it to near c and voila: vaporized planet.
The object of war is seldom the wholesale slaughter of populations. One does not destroy that which he has gone to war to take. To take a thing requires troops who can secure it. Those troops will be in proximity to the enemy, who may bypass threat detection gear by getting into close combat range with melee weapons which can't be detected or remotely deactivated.
Even in the 21st century, few if any countries would go to war with the aim to take people. On the contrary, most governments put a lot of effort to prevent people from coming in of their own free will.
Only ethical concerns would realistically stay an advanced spacefaring nation invading an alien planet from simply exterminating its population.
It's pretty obvious it's a ceremonial sword but ceremonial weapons usually still work. The Terrans also wear daggers so obviously have standard melee training.
Also if there's power dampers or some such around then something sharp and pointy is useful. That's what bayonets are for. Or 2m swords.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
i would go for a chemically-propelled projectile launcher before something sharp and pointy in an area where energy weapons or other high tech wasn't functioning
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
> @postagepaid said: > Giant homing shuriken sounds like the glaive from Krull. > > Knife training is easy compared to forks or especially spoons (which are dull so they hurt more)
Did you just make a Prince of Thieves reference?
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
No, no, you went one step too far. Not vaporizing the planet, vaporizing its inhabitants...with technology...you don't need troops because the population is gone. I really don't see why this is so confusing...
Maybe the fact that wiping out everyone on a planet is full on Genocide? We saw how many races reacted to the Tzenkethi using Protomatter weapons to wipe out ALL organic matter on a planet. Complete outrage.
Fact of the matter is that wiping out the inhabitants is indiscriminate. There is no Honor in it, nor is there any NEED for it. You're basically advocating in favor of killing innocents as well as the enemy.
Its why so many WMDs are either EXTREMELY regulated or outright banned here on Earth. Nuclear weapons haven't been used in warfare since Hiroshima and Nagasaki. That was literally the ONLY combat deployment of anything on the Atomic level. Biological and Chemical weapons are banned because they cannot be controlled. Once deployed, they see no innocents. They see no sides. They just kill. And if the wind blows a different direction, thats where it goes. It is even a threat to the side that USED it.
So you wanna know why everyone's opposed to just vaporizing a population for "easier conquest"? THERE YOU GO! For all intents and purposes... its tantamount to war crimes.
Captain Killy lifts her sword and points it straight up, "For the honor of Grayskull!" Turns as she hears a comment from off-screen and asks, "What do you mean it's been done already?"
Comments
First off... Klingons.
Second... just like with modern combat... when all else fails its better to have something to fall back on.
Just because a civilization has advanced so far that they have energy based weapons doesn't mean they've eliminated the chance of encountering melee weapons, let alone the need for any kind of melee weapon. If you think about it... how effective is that rifle gonna be if, by some chance, an enemy gets close enough to knock the barrel away from him and pulls a knife? What do you do then? Really got two options: Use the gun as a club or pull a knife.
Besides... The Emperor's Sword could be ceremonial, kinda like how modern US Marine Sabers are ceremonial.
Proximity Vaprorization is most likely possible... but at the same time unethical and impractical.
And personal shields are not the end all defense. I can think of three instances where an advanced culture still uses melee weapons despite the existance of personal shields. Both Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic games, Dune, and the Protoss in StarCraft.
Hell... there's melee combat in Mass Effect 3 with the Omni Blade, and they have personal Kinetic Barriers!
Just because you have advanced technology doesn't mean you should forsake ALL aspects of combat. Because there will always be that one instance where that advanced technology will fail. Then what do you do?
In short I am thinking bigger. I am looking at a picture where one should not be so reliant on advanced technology for everything.
Its a case of better to have it and not need it, then need it and not have it.
By your logic, the medieval shield should not be used because of guns. Well... it still lives on today with modern Riot Shields used by Police forces across the world.
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
But wouldn't that essentially be a metal lightsaber?
We already have those. The Nukara Rep swords become laser weapons of the color glow of the NPC's weapons' fire. They can also block and redirect energy weapons if you swing at the incoming bolts. The whole Shattering Harmonics set is for Jedi builds, with the sword, a low armor/high dodge body piece, status immunity, speed boosts, and a Force Sense clicky.
On the other hand... SG-1 also had a case where an advanced species actually had problems BECAUSE of their reliance on advanced technology. The Asgard actually suffered because they couldn't come up with a less advanced solution to fight the Replicators. They literally could not concieve of using a chemically propelled projectile as a solution. They kept trying to make better and better technology... only for the Replicators to eat it up like candy.
And also by your logic... the KLINGONS shouldn't even have melee weapons because they have advanced tech. Yet they have, and love using, melee weapons. And then we have the Jem'Hadar, who have polearms.
If your troops don't train for melee, guess what your enemy is going to attack you with? Fictional worlds are entirely the creations of their authors, and by his fiat, if nobody trains with knives, that's that. In the real world, enemies train to fight their opponent's weaknesses. Training for martial arts in case a soldier runs out of ammo could require years. Knife training takes weeks. A knife never needs batteries, never runs out of ammo, and requires no elaborate maintenance cycle.
Knife training is easy compared to forks or especially spoons (which are dull so they hurt more)
Don't forget about Warhammer 40k, with power swords, chainswords, force weapons, daemon weapons, entrenching tools, choppas, stormhammers, lightning blades/claws, stuff like that. Even in the 41st and 42nd millennium, melee is still a thing. Because when that gun runs out of energy or ammo and you need to absolutely kill the enemy, you have to get in close. Unless you're a psyker.
War is an endless race of arms. Clubs give way to swords (which are sturdier). Then armor is developed to protect against swords and similar weapons. This gives rise to the popularity of bows. Bows are countered with new designs in shields and formation fighting. Gunpowder changes the face of war not only with firearms, but with cannon. Then came automatic firearms, the weapon "so terrible, it would end warfare" because it's creator could not fathom anyone ordering their men to charge into a littoral hail of bullets. Later came armored vehicles, which support infantry advances into such fortified positions.
Today, the atomic weapons are considered the most powerful man has ever made. Currently, there is no reasonable counter to such things (which, many speculate, has resulted in one of the longest eras of world peace). Yet, it does not provide an answer to a conundrum which has plagued warfare since the age of clubs and rocks.
To hold captured territory, your force must have infantry. Today, we can bomb occupied territory into an uninhabitable hell-scape with our existing tech. We still need an infantry presence to occupy it, and this goes double for boarding actions in space. Since Star Trek does not go for the "droid/clone armies" angle, it must use members of it's established races. Since we need occupying troops, those troops must have infantry weapons suitable for any number of combat situations. Even a cursory glance at a handful of plausible scenarios leaves one thinking "man, a close combat weapon would be handy here".
My character Tsin'xing
If vaporization of the enemy wholesale is your solution, you need not ever set foot on his planet. Just get a big space-rock and accelerate it to near c and voila: vaporized planet.
The object of war is seldom the wholesale slaughter of populations. One does not destroy that which he has gone to war to take. To take a thing requires troops who can secure it. Those troops will be in proximity to the enemy, who may bypass threat detection gear by getting into close combat range with melee weapons which can't be detected or remotely deactivated.
You could check the wiki, I guess.
https://sto.gamepedia.com/Shattering_Harmonics
I have an Alt that uses the set. The clicky makes your screen lose color. All of the living things (NPCs, PCs, etc) glow, and you can see stealth characters. The set is even better if you have the telekinetic trait with its Force Push ability.
Might even have been the thals and kaleds.
My character Tsin'xing
Ooooh. I never considered that one. Good call.
Only ethical concerns would realistically stay an advanced spacefaring nation invading an alien planet from simply exterminating its population.
Also if there's power dampers or some such around then something sharp and pointy is useful. That's what bayonets are for. Or 2m swords.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
> Giant homing shuriken sounds like the glaive from Krull.
>
> Knife training is easy compared to forks or especially spoons (which are dull so they hurt more)
Did you just make a Prince of Thieves reference?
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Maybe the fact that wiping out everyone on a planet is full on Genocide? We saw how many races reacted to the Tzenkethi using Protomatter weapons to wipe out ALL organic matter on a planet. Complete outrage.
Fact of the matter is that wiping out the inhabitants is indiscriminate. There is no Honor in it, nor is there any NEED for it. You're basically advocating in favor of killing innocents as well as the enemy.
Its why so many WMDs are either EXTREMELY regulated or outright banned here on Earth. Nuclear weapons haven't been used in warfare since Hiroshima and Nagasaki. That was literally the ONLY combat deployment of anything on the Atomic level. Biological and Chemical weapons are banned because they cannot be controlled. Once deployed, they see no innocents. They see no sides. They just kill. And if the wind blows a different direction, thats where it goes. It is even a threat to the side that USED it.
So you wanna know why everyone's opposed to just vaporizing a population for "easier conquest"? THERE YOU GO! For all intents and purposes... its tantamount to war crimes.