Simple fix. Spin PVP off to redshirt. Limit everything there to stock weapons and consoles that are common quality and all capped at level 10. No crafted stuff no fleet ships no event ships just bone stock T-4 ships. Event he playing field and let it be a skill contest not a wallet contest/build contest. This way if you get spanked it due to you bad skills not the gear.
MMOs aren't games about 'skill' they are games about progression.
If you have bad stuff you arent good at MMOs, you need to get better stuff.
Guy I think you missed the subject of the entire post. It is ABOUT THE PVP PART OF STO. It is NOT about MMO's in general. So yeah troll stfu go back in your cave and let the adults continue with ideas how to turn PVP back into a skill not build thing.
Simple fix. Spin PVP off to redshirt. Limit everything there to stock weapons and consoles that are common quality and all capped at level 10. No crafted stuff no fleet ships no event ships just bone stock T-4 ships. Event he playing field and let it be a skill contest not a wallet contest/build contest. This way if you get spanked it due to you bad skills not the gear.
What about traits and specs ? Those are some of the biggest problems.
I disagree with that assement. Be honest eliminate the gear factor and people will have a better oppertunity to learn how to improve something in PVP. Right now a new player coming into PVP has ZERO chance of learning anything except how to blow up. Wow real incentive to play PVP when you get vaporized in 3 seconds by a T-6 all epic ship. Level the field gear wise and folks will learn how to adjust the very traits/skills/specs you have issue with to be a better pvp player. As it is most of the sepc stuff is a gimmick at best. and unless you have a ship that can use them to the max they can be a waste. An example is Temporal pretty useless unless your sci.
I wouldn't suggest pugging PvP cause you're never going to learn anything. Join a fleet that does pvp often, they'll teach you how to do it. I was in a PvP fleet way back in the day and that's how I learned.
JJ Connie > TOS Connie
Lag denied your Heal
What happened to my Halon consoles
Poni?
"Objective balance" is a start at handling out of control balance issues-and yes, you CAN separate gear from skill and at minimum balance gearing while allowing asymmetrical teams. BV systems exist because they WORK, provided you don't try to bend them to include things outside the ruleset such as actual skill or random luck (aka balancing objectively rather than trying to and failing to balance subjectively).
I'm guessing that by "BV" you mean a system that assigns points to skills in a way of determining the relative value of each skill in the build? If the skills themselves aren't balanced or balanceable, how would you ascertain the relative value of each skill? This is even more of an issue when you have skill combos that make a skill far better than it would be individually. The mere existence of such a system would trigger a whirlwind of debate... and "debate" that wouldn't subside until the system was removed. Why because everyone would think it was wrong no matter what any of the values was.
aside from the obvious "And the lack of a system is any better?" question, you mean?
yeah, gear, 'skills/powers', anythign that shows on the character sheet or build list. I didn't say it would be easy or even something this team could do with the number of man-hours they have available.
a lot of it is already done though. Defense/resist and DPS calculators are already either incorporated into the game, or developed by players and in use along with match-arranging algorithms.
the big breaker on BV systems usually happens when someone tries to force it to do something it really can't do-such as accurately predict subjective factors that aren't already tracked, such as terrain, relative team-size modifiers, or the Player's level of skill.
iow the skill-set of the person sitting at the keyboard instead of hte powers-list available to the character on the screen, or their equipment, can't be tracked. but it's still a massive undertaking, so it's a dead idea with the game in the state it is currently. wouldn't have been, say, three years ago before the proliferation of powers and extra procs on gear.
So you acknowledge that the BV idea was doomed from the start?
[Combat (Self)] "random_temporal_newfriend" deals 105161 (53306) Physical Damage(Critical) to you with Entropic Redistribution III.
and thats just one of the many complete BS atm
(it hits much more usually, btw)
(and it can be used way too often)
So buy the ship. PUG PVP is the one part of STO that really is Pay2Win. You didn't pay.
so, by buying and using broken exploits will just how gonna improve pvp ?
(protip: it's just kills it off)
and fyi: i can get anything and tbh, i got everything this game has to offer, but i ignore bad addons like these
i just wanna enjoy pvp becuase it has sum tense moments and all, unlike those boring pve with no challange and always the same, and a 2y old tuddler can handle
If you want balanced PVP, you need to play with other players that agree to and abide by terms for the matches. That is, not PUG.
PUG PVP was broken, is broken and will remain broken. It caters to the pay 2 win crowd.
Indeed.
I used to setup low lvl PVP, below lvl40 so we don't get access to rep, starship trait etc and high end stuff (and of course highly buged stuff too).
I can tell you it's way more fun than pug pvp or even higher lvl players cause you get to see only skilled players wining that kind of PVPs.
It's also probably the reason I got so few people to play with us since most PVPs players are lazy trolls eavily using exploits.
even when I was offering +10Millions EC and very rare stuff it's still hard to find people willing to try...
But we managed to get a few and had lot of fun together
I'm actualy bored of the game but I may start playing again soon and will try that again... maybe.
Dark Side (KDF)
HOUSE OF BORG
"I am FLATULUS of Borg, Resistance if Futile! Prepare to pull my finger!"
It's also probably the reason I got so few people to play with us since most PVPs players are lazy trolls eavily using exploits.
What's left of PvP in this game is a very tiny community. So you're not really speaking to the majority of people in the game. You're not even speaking to the majority of people on this forum. But, of the people you are speaking to, calling them lazy and trolls isn't likely to get you the response you want if you plan on coming back and attempting to organize some "fun" PVP events.
Good luck. I just don't know if people are going to be all that inspired to join in with the way you characterize those same people beforehand.
It's also probably the reason I got so few people to play with us since most PVPs players are lazy trolls eavily using exploits.
What's left of PvP in this game is a very tiny community. So you're not really speaking to the majority of people in the game. You're not even speaking to the majority of people on this forum. But, of the people you are speaking to, calling them lazy and trolls isn't likely to get you the response you want if you plan on coming back and attempting to organize some "fun" PVP events.
Good luck. I just don't know if people are going to be all that inspired to join in with the way you characterize those same people beforehand.
Indeed but same time that was one of my recruitment argument in game and what surely got some players not playing pvp anymore join us at 1st.
and dont get me wrong, those I'm calling lazy trolls know who they are and we surely dont want them to join. We had a few trying to join anyway with lvl60 and then insulting us cause we were not starting game... why should we bother ease their ego not calling what they are ? you dont call a cat a dog do you ?
Dark Side (KDF)
HOUSE OF BORG
"I am FLATULUS of Borg, Resistance if Futile! Prepare to pull my finger!"
I was PvPing last Friday with my fleet phantom, it's built as a support/alpha-striker and I was tackling temporal ships with it. I've found that the tricky is to attack them when they're occupied with 3 ppl attacking them.
I'm quite sure I've already said that but a good thing to solve PVP issues would be to have a Ranked PVP board like we had on AOE (Age Of Empire Online) : no stuff, no tech tree or skills at all, stuff was there only for deco.
macro wasnt a real prob on RTS but it could still be here ... but at least it would void any exploits running around.
Dark Side (KDF)
HOUSE OF BORG
"I am FLATULUS of Borg, Resistance if Futile! Prepare to pull my finger!"
Isn't the OP one of those who keeps coming in here and complaining about one thing or other about PvP? I haven't been here in several weeks, but I seem to remember them occasionally posting threads either complaining about something OP in PvP or just about how unbalanced PvP is in general.
But since nothing has been done regarding PvP in STO in literally years, I doubt they're going to get any ships or whatever banned, so they'll have to just adapt to it or continue to get killed.
Now a LTS and loving it.
Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.
I have come to the conclusion that I have a memory like Etch-A-Sketch. I shake my head and forget everything.
"Objective balance" is a start at handling out of control balance issues-and yes, you CAN separate gear from skill and at minimum balance gearing while allowing asymmetrical teams. BV systems exist because they WORK, provided you don't try to bend them to include things outside the ruleset such as actual skill or random luck (aka balancing objectively rather than trying to and failing to balance subjectively).
I'm guessing that by "BV" you mean a system that assigns points to skills in a way of determining the relative value of each skill in the build? If the skills themselves aren't balanced or balanceable, how would you ascertain the relative value of each skill? This is even more of an issue when you have skill combos that make a skill far better than it would be individually. The mere existence of such a system would trigger a whirlwind of debate... and "debate" that wouldn't subside until the system was removed. Why because everyone would think it was wrong no matter what any of the values was.
aside from the obvious "And the lack of a system is any better?" question, you mean?
yeah, gear, 'skills/powers', anythign that shows on the character sheet or build list. I didn't say it would be easy or even something this team could do with the number of man-hours they have available.
a lot of it is already done though. Defense/resist and DPS calculators are already either incorporated into the game, or developed by players and in use along with match-arranging algorithms.
the big breaker on BV systems usually happens when someone tries to force it to do something it really can't do-such as accurately predict subjective factors that aren't already tracked, such as terrain, relative team-size modifiers, or the Player's level of skill.
iow the skill-set of the person sitting at the keyboard instead of hte powers-list available to the character on the screen, or their equipment, can't be tracked. but it's still a massive undertaking, so it's a dead idea with the game in the state it is currently. wouldn't have been, say, three years ago before the proliferation of powers and extra procs on gear.
So you acknowledge that the BV idea was doomed from the start?
*points at previous post about PvP ratings*
at this point, Mark, I don't think there's any plan that is not doomed from day one by the sheer cost of implementation vs. the declining size of the target audience combined with the personnel factors at Cryptic (lack of people to do it, lack of people that know HOW to do it in a way that works, business model, etc. etc.)
I'd love to be wrong about that, btw. It would tickle the hell out of me, but I honestly can say that I don't think I am. The time period where the activity was still open enough to be viable was over years ago-any attempt to revitalize now is trying to get horses back in a barn that's already burnt to the ground.
Again, this is why I advocated a rating system... It doesn't really care about what players are using or whether they're using OP "cheese"... all a rating system needs to care about is whether they win or lose. Thus it's much simpler to implement.
I dont think its the ships themselves that have the issue. its that everything now seems to revolve around EPG. want to be a good sci? sure go down that route. want to be a GREAT sci? then roll a tac and still go down the EPG route. its all well and good in PvE for players to get as much DPS as they can by doing this.
All that really needs to be done to resolve the issue here is to stop exotic damage from being boosted by GDF and APA. better yet give exotic damage a -50% vs other players like other items in the game have
It's a lost cause, Mark. a rating system would feature the same names at the top until those players left the game due to 'Life intervened' or boredom.
You didn't bother reading the post where I explained it.
The point behind the ratings system is to separate those who are godly PvPers from those who are not. The whole point is to make it so that when PvPing you get matched against people with a similar rating. Thus the people who suck would typically get matched against people who are equally bad at PvP. Thus making one-sided curb stompings less likely.
Thus it does NOT require any effort whatsoever in changing the actual game play. The people who do 100k crits will still do 100k Crits.... but usually to people who also do similar things.
I disagree - by losing to better players, you (should) improve. If you only ever fight other bad players, you'll stay bad forever.
I suppose I should explain more. Each time you win your rating increases, and each time you lose your rating goes down. So if you win a lot, you start fighting tougher opponents.
1, roll an sci toon for subnuk-beam (number 1 troll stuff in pvp)
2, max out prtg to boost exo dmg (by boost i mean stack it up on spupid level, since it aint got any cap, and now almost every console gives 30+ prtg skill now as a "side bonus")
3, use all the newly added temporal bo powers as u like ( https://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/10017373-star-trek-online:-temporal-bridge-officers )
4, while we are at it, use repulsor beams too (who doesnt love 10k+ ticks every 0.5sec? ) (without even a visible target to shoot on!)
5, fbp? (just kidding, i dont have any problem with fbp)
6, placater duty officer? (2x sif for full trollmode)
7, should ur target flee or about to ambush hit dat subnuk already! (1 button pressed and u just deleted 2-3minutes worth of buffing in a second)
8, sit back (but ready to faceroll ur powers)
9, enjoy your magic doing all the work for u (entropic, structural collapse, etc.) that has zero proper counter to use
its not only very cheap and doesnt require any costly gear, no brain required and no experience required. just faceroll on the power-tray and grab sum popcorn. maybe type in chat "haha, noob" or "ez" or "booom" and should u be a lifer u can additionaly activate fireworks to show off ur dominance over the peasants.
stop exotic damage from being boosted by GDF and APA. better yet give exotic damage a -50% vs other players like other items in the game have
unless sumone is edging on zahl+gdf+etc, gdf+apa isnt a real threat
while we are at it (on a comparing side) subnuk beam is plain stupid, deleting all buff + cd down everything --> deleting the "all mighty op gdf+apa" with 1 button pressed takes some real effort (while still in the positing to boost up ur sci magic and exospam the hell out on a pinned target with dmg sauces bypassing "all_res" and all)
p.s.: sensor_scan can pretty much stronger than apa fireonmytarget while we are at it. its res debuffing is pure cancer. removing resisnce with 1 bbutton cracks any1. while on the other hand, u can gdf+apa all u want, with good res (and fpb alike stuff) its meaningless.
while "fire on my mark" do good res debuffs, i dont think most of d pvpers fly without "2x tac-team" or 1x with 2x vr duty officer which counters alone this debuff.
on the otherhand most of the offensive type of players may only use 1x or none sci-team, which often get used up to clear the fraction of scispam getting shovel'd out in d progress
My single thought about most PVP threads right now.....
Instead of asking for straight out nerfs, or even ship/ability bans, why not ask for counter-abilities? Counter abilities would be useful for both PVP and when NPCs get them, would enrich PVE. Cryptic can monetize that as well. Then these topics would cease to be a PVE vs PVP thing.
It's not going to solve PVP issues in one swoop, but it would bring things a bit closer to a semblance of balance and might help the PVP community recover a bit. Then other balance passes and enhancements for the PVP side can be justifiable in cost as well.
Comments
Guy I think you missed the subject of the entire post. It is ABOUT THE PVP PART OF STO. It is NOT about MMO's in general. So yeah troll stfu go back in your cave and let the adults continue with ideas how to turn PVP back into a skill not build thing.
I disagree with that assement. Be honest eliminate the gear factor and people will have a better oppertunity to learn how to improve something in PVP. Right now a new player coming into PVP has ZERO chance of learning anything except how to blow up. Wow real incentive to play PVP when you get vaporized in 3 seconds by a T-6 all epic ship. Level the field gear wise and folks will learn how to adjust the very traits/skills/specs you have issue with to be a better pvp player. As it is most of the sepc stuff is a gimmick at best. and unless you have a ship that can use them to the max they can be a waste. An example is Temporal pretty useless unless your sci.
Lag denied your Heal
What happened to my Halon consoles
Poni?
*points at previous post about PvP ratings*
My character Tsin'xing
Indeed.
I used to setup low lvl PVP, below lvl40 so we don't get access to rep, starship trait etc and high end stuff (and of course highly buged stuff too).
I can tell you it's way more fun than pug pvp or even higher lvl players cause you get to see only skilled players wining that kind of PVPs.
It's also probably the reason I got so few people to play with us since most PVPs players are lazy trolls eavily using exploits.
even when I was offering +10Millions EC and very rare stuff it's still hard to find people willing to try...
But we managed to get a few and had lot of fun together
I'm actualy bored of the game but I may start playing again soon and will try that again... maybe.
What's left of PvP in this game is a very tiny community. So you're not really speaking to the majority of people in the game. You're not even speaking to the majority of people on this forum. But, of the people you are speaking to, calling them lazy and trolls isn't likely to get you the response you want if you plan on coming back and attempting to organize some "fun" PVP events.
Good luck. I just don't know if people are going to be all that inspired to join in with the way you characterize those same people beforehand.
Indeed but same time that was one of my recruitment argument in game and what surely got some players not playing pvp anymore join us at 1st.
and dont get me wrong, those I'm calling lazy trolls know who they are and we surely dont want them to join. We had a few trying to join anyway with lvl60 and then insulting us cause we were not starting game... why should we bother ease their ego not calling what they are ? you dont call a cat a dog do you ?
macro wasnt a real prob on RTS but it could still be here ... but at least it would void any exploits running around.
But since nothing has been done regarding PvP in STO in literally years, I doubt they're going to get any ships or whatever banned, so they'll have to just adapt to it or continue to get killed.
My character Tsin'xing
Exactly - OP is just someone whining because they got beat at Ker'rat.
Gonna use this on OP if I see 'em :-p
Advanced Radiant Antiproton Array - Hypercharge deals 237095 (137262) Antiproton Damage(Critical)"
All that really needs to be done to resolve the issue here is to stop exotic damage from being boosted by GDF and APA. better yet give exotic damage a -50% vs other players like other items in the game have
The point behind the ratings system is to separate those who are godly PvPers from those who are not. The whole point is to make it so that when PvPing you get matched against people with a similar rating. Thus the people who suck would typically get matched against people who are equally bad at PvP. Thus making one-sided curb stompings less likely.
Thus it does NOT require any effort whatsoever in changing the actual game play. The people who do 100k crits will still do 100k Crits.... but usually to people who also do similar things.
My character Tsin'xing
My character Tsin'xing
very simple,
1, roll an sci toon for subnuk-beam (number 1 troll stuff in pvp)
2, max out prtg to boost exo dmg (by boost i mean stack it up on spupid level, since it aint got any cap, and now almost every console gives 30+ prtg skill now as a "side bonus")
3, use all the newly added temporal bo powers as u like ( https://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/10017373-star-trek-online:-temporal-bridge-officers )
4, while we are at it, use repulsor beams too (who doesnt love 10k+ ticks every 0.5sec? ) (without even a visible target to shoot on!)
5, fbp? (just kidding, i dont have any problem with fbp)
6, placater duty officer? (2x sif for full trollmode)
7, should ur target flee or about to ambush hit dat subnuk already! (1 button pressed and u just deleted 2-3minutes worth of buffing in a second)
8, sit back (but ready to faceroll ur powers)
9, enjoy your magic doing all the work for u (entropic, structural collapse, etc.) that has zero proper counter to use
its not only very cheap and doesnt require any costly gear, no brain required and no experience required. just faceroll on the power-tray and grab sum popcorn. maybe type in chat "haha, noob" or "ez" or "booom" and should u be a lifer u can additionaly activate fireworks to show off ur dominance over the peasants.
unless sumone is edging on zahl+gdf+etc, gdf+apa isnt a real threat
while we are at it (on a comparing side) subnuk beam is plain stupid, deleting all buff + cd down everything --> deleting the "all mighty op gdf+apa" with 1 button pressed takes some real effort (while still in the positing to boost up ur sci magic and exospam the hell out on a pinned target with dmg sauces bypassing "all_res" and all)
p.s.: sensor_scan can pretty much stronger than apa fireonmytarget while we are at it. its res debuffing is pure cancer. removing resisnce with 1 bbutton cracks any1. while on the other hand, u can gdf+apa all u want, with good res (and fpb alike stuff) its meaningless.
while "fire on my mark" do good res debuffs, i dont think most of d pvpers fly without "2x tac-team" or 1x with 2x vr duty officer which counters alone this debuff.
on the otherhand most of the offensive type of players may only use 1x or none sci-team, which often get used up to clear the fraction of scispam getting shovel'd out in d progress
/rant
My character Tsin'xing
Instead of asking for straight out nerfs, or even ship/ability bans, why not ask for counter-abilities? Counter abilities would be useful for both PVP and when NPCs get them, would enrich PVE. Cryptic can monetize that as well. Then these topics would cease to be a PVE vs PVP thing.
It's not going to solve PVP issues in one swoop, but it would bring things a bit closer to a semblance of balance and might help the PVP community recover a bit. Then other balance passes and enhancements for the PVP side can be justifiable in cost as well.
| USS Curiosity - Pathfinder | USS Rift - Eternal |
The Science Ship Build Thread - Share your Sci Ship builds here!
So...Structural Integrity Collapse has a hard counter..
Rouge Sto Wiki Editor.