[Combat (Self)] "random_temporal_newfriend" deals 105161 (53306) Physical Damage(Critical) to you with Entropic Redistribution III.
and thats just one of the many complete BS atm
(it hits much more usually, btw)
(and it can be used way too often)
So buy the ship. PUG PVP is the one part of STO that really is Pay2Win. You didn't pay.
so, by buying and using broken exploits will just how gonna improve pvp ?
(protip: it's just kills it off)
and fyi: i can get anything and tbh, i got everything this game has to offer, but i ignore bad addons like these
i just wanna enjoy pvp becuase it has sum tense moments and all, unlike those boring pve with no challange and always the same, and a 2y old tuddler can handle
Its never going to be improved, or balanced or re-adjusted.
Devs have went all in on selling power creep. You can expect things to get exponentially worse with each new release.
Don't say you weren't warned.
It's been like this ever since the PvE crowd cried their bloody eyes out about the Ionic Turbulance PvP fix.
Since then, no Dev will listen to PvP feedback ever again.
It's not worth the uproar it causes to appease a couple hundred pvp'ers, when thousands of PvE'ers will cry their eyes out, and threaten the lives of Devs (on twitter) over "pvp fixes". They just won't do it anymore.
It's not worth it to them, so they made their life a lot more simple, and only provide power creep and cater to the PvE crowd.
"Ever again??" they weren't listening the FIRST TIME! IT got 'fixed' because they needed to make the next thing (Kemocite) shiny. I half think the interview where Geko said "it's not supposed to work that way!" was a set-up. Three month cycles. That's the cycle of Cryptic introducing something broken, fixing it, and introducing something just as broken.
Black poo console
Embassy plasma
Subnuke Wave
Ionic Turbulence
Kemocite...
get the picture?
The only time PvP gets mentioned in relation to any 'nerf' or 'rebalance' in this game, is when the company needs to deflect blame because sales were better than expected.
they don't listen to PvP and never have-as a collective. There have been devs who tried to work with PvP in the past, but their efforts always ended up compromised, and those devs don't work at Cryptic anymore-the last one was Adjudicatorhawk, and he's been gone close to two years now.
Kemocite was brought to the attention of devs by the PvE crowd.
As were Embassy consoles.
Ionic nerf (if you can even call it that - all they did was change the tracking effect) was a PvP led effort.
And the Devs eventually listened on that one at least.
They also listened way back when the First Great Science nerf happened.
Not sure on the backstory for the Black Poo Console, but a lot of pvp'ers complained about that one.
PvE'ers were quick to blame PvP'ers for Kemo/and Embassy nerfs...
Truth is those were PvE led efforts.
Someone from the DPS channels got sore at everyone Plasma doping, and brought it to the attention of the Devs.
I believe, they would even disqualify parses that were exploiting Plasma Doping for a while, it also lead to a DPS board wipe.
Kemo, I can remember 2 nerfs, and one of them was instigated by a DPS channel Torp User.
Due to massive lag spikes stemming from Torp Spread and Kemo combination.
The other, I believe was a general damage reduction.
Don't forget Neutronic Torp.
That was also heavily complained about by the PvP crowd.
So yes they have listened selectively over the years, even if those events were few and far between.
Whether or not, it was a natural cycle from cryptic - Release broken stuff - Wait 3 months - Fix it before the next release, or happy coincidence "that they listened to the PvP crowd" , those nerfs were needed in the realm of PvP.
Call it what you want.
But they won't anymore guaranteed.
Anyway, I haven't even noticed any new nerfs recently (not been paying attention perhaps). What was the last thing that was nerfed ?
what? Blizzard builds games around PvP? lol.... I've never played a single Blizzard game with fair or balanced PvP. Unless you're thinking of the RTS ones? They don't really count for this sort of discussion though.
Balancing PVE and PVP has always been a challenge for any MMO.
The best PVP is from games that don't have to address a balance with PVE content and MMOs that have PVP are always watering it down as secondary priority over PVE.
While I would love to see a PVP revamp in this game, it will never happen. Did you catch that? Never. This game is so wrapped up in PVE and skills/modules etc. are so focused on PVE content that they could never invest the time and resources to untangle it all without creating a huge hit to PVE as well.
If you really enjoy PVP over other aspects of this game; go play EVEO, STO is not the game for you.
Simple fix. Spin PVP off to redshirt. Limit everything there to stock weapons and consoles that are common quality and all capped at level 10. No crafted stuff no fleet ships no event ships just bone stock T-4 ships. Event he playing field and let it be a skill contest not a wallet contest/build contest. This way if you get spanked it due to you bad skills not the gear.
Simple fix. Spin PVP off to redshirt. Limit everything there to stock weapons and consoles that are common quality and all capped at level 10. No crafted stuff no fleet ships no event ships just bone stock T-4 ships. Event he playing field and let it be a skill contest not a wallet contest/build contest. This way if you get spanked it due to you bad skills not the gear.
What about traits and specs ? Those are some of the biggest problems.
Simple fix. Spin PVP off to redshirt. Limit everything there to stock weapons and consoles that are common quality and all capped at level 10. No crafted stuff no fleet ships no event ships just bone stock T-4 ships. Event he playing field and let it be a skill contest not a wallet contest/build contest. This way if you get spanked it due to you bad skills not the gear.
That's not why Redshirt exists. Redshirt is for testing the next patch before it goes live.
I remember back when STO launched and dabbling with PvP. It could be fun, especially with folks still leveling and learning.
But ever since I've come back, every mention of it has made me recoil from the idea of ever queuing up. I'd love to see it get some attention, someday, somehow, but right now I'm happy to ignore it... just like everyone else, apparently.
what? Blizzard builds games around PvP? lol.... I've never played a single Blizzard game with fair or balanced PvP. Unless you're thinking of the RTS ones? They don't really count for this sort of discussion though.
ever played 'Starcraft" yo? or even "Warcraft"? the games that came BEFORE WoW?
I believe those are covered in the category of "RTS". Which doesn't count since it's "Real Time Strategy" and not an MMO at all.
And yes I have played them. PvP in them is not the same as PvE.
That's not why Redshirt exists. Redshirt is for testing the next patch before it goes live.
I thought Tribble was the test server. Unless patches go from Redshirt to Tribble for public testing before hitting Holodeck...
It's not "the" test server, they're both for testing. Big updates(like the next one) may sizzle on Tribble for months. So weekly updates can't get tested on Tribble. Enter the Redshirt!
[Combat (Self)] "random_temporal_newfriend" deals 105161 (53306) Physical Damage(Critical) to you with Entropic Redistribution III.
and thats just one of the many complete BS atm
(it hits much more usually, btw)
(and it can be used way too often)
So buy the ship. PUG PVP is the one part of STO that really is Pay2Win. You didn't pay.
so, by buying and using broken exploits will just how gonna improve pvp ?
(protip: it's just kills it off)
and fyi: i can get anything and tbh, i got everything this game has to offer, but i ignore bad addons like these
i just wanna enjoy pvp becuase it has sum tense moments and all, unlike those boring pve with no challange and always the same, and a 2y old tuddler can handle
Its never going to be improved, or balanced or re-adjusted.
Devs have went all in on selling power creep. You can expect things to get exponentially worse with each new release.
Don't say you weren't warned.
It's been like this ever since the PvE crowd cried their bloody eyes out about the Ionic Turbulance PvP fix.
Since then, no Dev will listen to PvP feedback ever again.
It's not worth the uproar it causes to appease a couple hundred pvp'ers, when thousands of PvE'ers will cry their eyes out, and threaten the lives of Devs (on twitter) over "pvp fixes". They just won't do it anymore.
It's not worth it to them, so they made their life a lot more simple, and only provide power creep and cater to the PvE crowd.
"Ever again??" they weren't listening the FIRST TIME! IT got 'fixed' because they needed to make the next thing (Kemocite) shiny. I half think the interview where Geko said "it's not supposed to work that way!" was a set-up. Three month cycles. That's the cycle of Cryptic introducing something broken, fixing it, and introducing something just as broken.
Black poo console
Embassy plasma
Subnuke Wave
Ionic Turbulence
Kemocite...
get the picture?
The only time PvP gets mentioned in relation to any 'nerf' or 'rebalance' in this game, is when the company needs to deflect blame because sales were better than expected.
they don't listen to PvP and never have-as a collective. There have been devs who tried to work with PvP in the past, but their efforts always ended up compromised, and those devs don't work at Cryptic anymore-the last one was Adjudicatorhawk, and he's been gone close to two years now.
Kemocite was brought to the attention of devs by the PvE crowd.
As were Embassy consoles.
Ionic nerf (if you can even call it that - all they did was change the tracking effect) was a PvP led effort.
And the Devs eventually listened on that one at least.
They also listened way back when the First Great Science nerf happened.
Not sure on the backstory for the Black Poo Console, but a lot of pvp'ers complained about that one.
PvE'ers were quick to blame PvP'ers for Kemo/and Embassy nerfs...
Truth is those were PvE led efforts.
Someone from the DPS channels got sore at everyone Plasma doping, and brought it to the attention of the Devs.
I believe, they would even disqualify parses that were exploiting Plasma Doping for a while, it also lead to a DPS board wipe.
Kemo, I can remember 2 nerfs, and one of them was instigated by a DPS channel Torp User.
Due to massive lag spikes stemming from Torp Spread and Kemo combination.
The other, I believe was a general damage reduction.
Don't forget Neutronic Torp.
That was also heavily complained about by the PvP crowd.
So yes they have listened selectively over the years, even if those events were few and far between.
Whether or not, it was a natural cycle from cryptic - Release broken stuff - Wait 3 months - Fix it before the next release, or happy coincidence "that they listened to the PvP crowd" , those nerfs were needed in the realm of PvP.
Call it what you want.
But they won't anymore guaranteed.
Anyway, I haven't even noticed any new nerfs recently (not been paying attention perhaps). What was the last thing that was nerfed ?
Taylor, I was also there. PvP asked about Ionic Turbulence in November of 2014. Answer from the Devs in 11/14 was "Working as intended". D'Angelo stepped down in March of 2015 and the 'nerf' happend about a week later when it was brought up in a Q&A on Priority One and lo-and-behold, it wasn't working as intended as the devs had claimed some months earlier. Turns out the story is, they forgot to toggle something.
Kemocite didn't get a fix until youtbubers put up testing vids showing it was active even when not activated, and that two slots on a toon had it active simultaneously.
those were not "PvP'ers" that crew were mostly DPS guys from PvE, and it had been discussed endlessly on DPS for months prior to that.
PvP might've spotted problems, but fixes? decisions to even look? completely not connected to anything we had to say at any time after Gozer left...with the exception of a six month period where some people were helping Adjudicatorhawk with the beam skill realignment-roughly a month before he left for "Other opportunities and it was amicable we swear".
Yeah I'll buy that for a 1$
That does ring a bell.
I had forgotten all about the multi-slotting of Kemo.. that was indeed happening.
I also remember that Torp User from the DPS channels leading the way for the Torp Spread/ Kemo lag issue. Was that related to to Kemo stacking ? Can't even remember tbh.
On the Ionic issue, I do sort of remember the WAI comment (I think it was in Wast33's thread), but then it got fixed shortly there after, so I guess I figured, maybe they listened to PvP'ers in that case...but maybe that was just how I perceived it.
And for a nerf that everyone in PvE land screamed bloody murder over (Ionic)...it really wasn't much of a nerf, and maybe wasn't even the PvP'ers fault according to your information...yet who got blamed for that one ?
PvP'ers.
At least that's what PvE'ers were screaming about at the time.
Could be that over the years I "perceived" PvP having more impact on certain nerfs then it actually did in reality. In hindsight that's probably my own doing, I never really followed the podcasts. And get most of my info from the forums. So I'm okay differing to someone who's followed the documents more closely.
perfect balance is like 3-headed unicorns.... It only exists in people's fantasies.
"perfect" balance, no, but there is a range where a game or scenario is "properly" balanced-where both sides are within around 10% on their statistical chance for a win under a given set of circumstance, barring individual players' abilities as players (rather than their toons gear or stack of stats).
STO is so far outside that zone that it's fair to say that statistically, in PVP, one side can pull that statistical probability to better than ninety percent on grind-gear and specs alone, and the only way it could drop to the sweet spot, is if most of that team don't bother playing the game at all.
solely based on grind-and-pay gearing, no actual skills required.
but it gets magnified with other force multipliers outside the game-developer's control, such as offsite voice-comms among Premades, the use of Macros by players with actual 'gaming keyboards' and programmable mice.
*points at previous discussion of PvP ratings*
The flaw to your thinking is the idea that one can separate gear from player skill. It takes player skill to figure out WHAT gear to use to optimize their build. Some people use episode reward gear(heavily upgraded of course) as core parts of their ship build. This is the core imbalance that you will never "solve" by restricting gear use in PvP. The players are actively trying to break the power curve in every way they can.
Sure some people think you can fix that by disabling everything that makes ship combat fun... But let's face it, if you go too far in that direction you might as well roll a dice or play rock paper scissors.
apart that the whole concept of "temporal" time traveling in player vs player scenarios is plain nonesense, these new powers way beyond broken
its only "popular" because its easily exploitable with very little effort and sume very sad person who got no better thing to do just troll all day around with its un-counterable stuff.
either fix/normalize these new power or just lock that out from pvp
and preferably the sooner the better pls, before we face another toy made for troll exploiters exclusively to ruin that part of the game
[Combat (Self)] "random_temporal_newfriend" deals 105161 (53306) Physical Damage(Critical) to you with Entropic Redistribution III.
and thats just one of the many complete BS atm
(it hits much more usually, btw)
(and it can be used way too often)
This ain't happenin'!
Choose/buy a ship that can be used in PvP. (The "free" event ships are usable in PvP.)
Get better gear (modules) and upgrade them to Epic.
Learn to maximize the use of your gear--together. Just having Epic everything doesn't work; you actually need to see what will give you the best results for your selected ship.
Get/buy viable starship traits. Invincibility is the trait most used by trolls, so learn its weakness and use it to your advantage.
Select traits that will boost your damage and help you resist DoT and Physical damage.
Team up! Don't fight a Temporal Troll alone; get your buddies to help vape the hell out him.
Suck it up, and keep trying! Yes, you will die, but learn from each encounter and improve your gear, weapons, and tactics.
"Objective balance" is a start at handling out of control balance issues-and yes, you CAN separate gear from skill and at minimum balance gearing while allowing asymmetrical teams. BV systems exist because they WORK, provided you don't try to bend them to include things outside the ruleset such as actual skill or random luck (aka balancing objectively rather than trying to and failing to balance subjectively).
I'm guessing that by "BV" you mean a system that assigns points to skills in a way of determining the relative value of each skill in the build? If the skills themselves aren't balanced or balanceable, how would you ascertain the relative value of each skill? This is even more of an issue when you have skill combos that make a skill far better than it would be individually. The mere existence of such a system would trigger a whirlwind of debate... and "debate" that wouldn't subside until the system was removed. Why because everyone would think it was wrong no matter what any of the values was.
Simple fix. Spin PVP off to redshirt. Limit everything there to stock weapons and consoles that are common quality and all capped at level 10. No crafted stuff no fleet ships no event ships just bone stock T-4 ships. Event he playing field and let it be a skill contest not a wallet contest/build contest. This way if you get spanked it due to you bad skills not the gear.
That's not why Redshirt exists. Redshirt is for testing the next patch before it goes live.
I know I should have said spin it off to it's own server. Redshirt came to mind for some reason. Mia Culpa
Comments
Kemocite was brought to the attention of devs by the PvE crowd.
As were Embassy consoles.
Ionic nerf (if you can even call it that - all they did was change the tracking effect) was a PvP led effort.
And the Devs eventually listened on that one at least.
They also listened way back when the First Great Science nerf happened.
Not sure on the backstory for the Black Poo Console, but a lot of pvp'ers complained about that one.
PvE'ers were quick to blame PvP'ers for Kemo/and Embassy nerfs...
Truth is those were PvE led efforts.
Someone from the DPS channels got sore at everyone Plasma doping, and brought it to the attention of the Devs.
I believe, they would even disqualify parses that were exploiting Plasma Doping for a while, it also lead to a DPS board wipe.
Kemo, I can remember 2 nerfs, and one of them was instigated by a DPS channel Torp User.
Due to massive lag spikes stemming from Torp Spread and Kemo combination.
The other, I believe was a general damage reduction.
Don't forget Neutronic Torp.
That was also heavily complained about by the PvP crowd.
So yes they have listened selectively over the years, even if those events were few and far between.
Whether or not, it was a natural cycle from cryptic - Release broken stuff - Wait 3 months - Fix it before the next release, or happy coincidence "that they listened to the PvP crowd" , those nerfs were needed in the realm of PvP.
Call it what you want.
But they won't anymore guaranteed.
Anyway, I haven't even noticed any new nerfs recently (not been paying attention perhaps). What was the last thing that was nerfed ?
My character Tsin'xing
The best PVP is from games that don't have to address a balance with PVE content and MMOs that have PVP are always watering it down as secondary priority over PVE.
While I would love to see a PVP revamp in this game, it will never happen. Did you catch that? Never. This game is so wrapped up in PVE and skills/modules etc. are so focused on PVE content that they could never invest the time and resources to untangle it all without creating a huge hit to PVE as well.
If you really enjoy PVP over other aspects of this game; go play EVEO, STO is not the game for you.
What about traits and specs ? Those are some of the biggest problems.
My character Tsin'xing
I remember back when STO launched and dabbling with PvP. It could be fun, especially with folks still leveling and learning.
But ever since I've come back, every mention of it has made me recoil from the idea of ever queuing up. I'd love to see it get some attention, someday, somehow, but right now I'm happy to ignore it... just like everyone else, apparently.
And yes I have played them. PvP in them is not the same as PvE.
My character Tsin'xing
I thought Tribble was the test server. Unless patches go from Redshirt to Tribble for public testing before hitting Holodeck...
My character Tsin'xing
My character Tsin'xing
Yeah I'll buy that for a 1$
That does ring a bell.
I had forgotten all about the multi-slotting of Kemo.. that was indeed happening.
I also remember that Torp User from the DPS channels leading the way for the Torp Spread/ Kemo lag issue. Was that related to to Kemo stacking ? Can't even remember tbh.
On the Ionic issue, I do sort of remember the WAI comment (I think it was in Wast33's thread), but then it got fixed shortly there after, so I guess I figured, maybe they listened to PvP'ers in that case...but maybe that was just how I perceived it.
And for a nerf that everyone in PvE land screamed bloody murder over (Ionic)...it really wasn't much of a nerf, and maybe wasn't even the PvP'ers fault according to your information...yet who got blamed for that one ?
PvP'ers.
At least that's what PvE'ers were screaming about at the time.
Could be that over the years I "perceived" PvP having more impact on certain nerfs then it actually did in reality. In hindsight that's probably my own doing, I never really followed the podcasts. And get most of my info from the forums. So I'm okay differing to someone who's followed the documents more closely.
The flaw to your thinking is the idea that one can separate gear from player skill. It takes player skill to figure out WHAT gear to use to optimize their build. Some people use episode reward gear(heavily upgraded of course) as core parts of their ship build. This is the core imbalance that you will never "solve" by restricting gear use in PvP. The players are actively trying to break the power curve in every way they can.
Sure some people think you can fix that by disabling everything that makes ship combat fun... But let's face it, if you go too far in that direction you might as well roll a dice or play rock paper scissors.
My character Tsin'xing
- This ain't happenin'!
- Choose/buy a ship that can be used in PvP. (The "free" event ships are usable in PvP.)
- Get better gear (modules) and upgrade them to Epic.
- Learn to maximize the use of your gear--together. Just having Epic everything doesn't work; you actually need to see what will give you the best results for your selected ship.
- Get/buy viable starship traits. Invincibility is the trait most used by trolls, so learn its weakness and use it to your advantage.
- Select traits that will boost your damage and help you resist DoT and Physical damage.
- Team up! Don't fight a Temporal Troll alone; get your buddies to help vape the hell out him.
- Suck it up, and keep trying! Yes, you will die, but learn from each encounter and improve your gear, weapons, and tactics.
Good luck!My character Tsin'xing
I know I should have said spin it off to it's own server. Redshirt came to mind for some reason. Mia Culpa