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    warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    ruinthefun wrote: »
    azrael605 wrote: »
    In actual fact its the tiny minority that won't be playing AoD. Just as it was a tiny minority that hated TNG, DS9, etc.
    It depends on what you mean by "won't be playing AoD". I imagine the majority of the players will play the missions. Once, maybe a week. A sizeable fraction, although by no means a majority, will actually create a new character if offered the chance. A miniscule fraction will stick around to keep playing the queues, unless this new stimulation turns out to be the next ADD 1 TO REDALERT GIVING REDALERT, which will likely be a disaster for the rest of the game since everything else will end up even deader for it.
    I'd imagine most players would want to see the missions at least once. I'd imagine the majority of the players would similarly create a toon to see the origin story, though I'd expect many if not most of them to be forgotten, deleted or turned into Yet Another Dil Farmer as soon the unique content stops. This is of course notwithstanding people who are not interested in story at all and/or those fatally allergic to TRIBBLE.

    More interest will of course be generated if there's a recruit event.

    And I fully do expect nobody will play any queue(s) much unless they give marks that are not available in the choiceboxes.

    Just like every other content release.
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    echattyechatty Member Posts: 5,914 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    No to forced PvP.

    Don't need to give grifers a reason to gank rookie players in Sector Space. Also... not everyone likes PvP, so it shouldn't be forced on people.

    With all due respect... you want a war...
    I hear WoW's new Expansion is gonna refocus on the conflict between the Alliance and Horde.
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    Go play EvE Online. Seriously, no non-consensual PvP, please.

    This right here. There are already plenty of games out there with forced PvP, we don't need it here. STO would lose a lot of playerbase over forced PvP.

    Even with an opt-out feature that may or may not work.

    I echo these two. No forced PvP.
    Now a LTS and loving it.
    Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.
    I have come to the conclusion that I have a memory like Etch-A-Sketch. I shake my head and forget everything. :D
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    echattyechatty Member Posts: 5,914 Arc User
    edited September 2018
    gaevsman wrote: »
    One of the reasons I play this game is, actually, the lack of enforced PvP, i can mi d my own business, and others too, i line that, i hardly have any time to play as it is!

    This is why this is the pretty much the only MMO that I play. No forced PvP. I don't come to any game to fight other players, I come to have fun in my own way. Everyone's fun is not wrong, it's just wrong if what I don't find fun is forced upon me. And as azrael said, I won't play any game that forces PvP on me.
    Now a LTS and loving it.
    Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.
    I have come to the conclusion that I have a memory like Etch-A-Sketch. I shake my head and forget everything. :D
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    nimbullnimbull Member Posts: 1,564 Arc User
    Had Cryptic designed STO as they did with the Agent's of Yesterday TOS toons I'd be all for a three way Romaulan, KDF, Fed PvParty. Sadly they didn't and we have what we have today. Throw in the power creep that's been going on forever and really you'd need to redo this game from the ground up in order to get any decent PvP out of it.
    Green people don't have to be.... little.
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    jcswwjcsww Member Posts: 6,790 Arc User
    It doesn't matter to me either way because PvP in STO has always been a complete mess. There is no deathmatch, no multiple teams based on faction outside of KDF VS Fed, no CTF, and so on. THe PvP modes that make PvP fun are all missing! The match making in this game is also one of the most broken systems in all of gaming.
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    vetteguy904vetteguy904 Member Posts: 3,857 Arc User
    I say it every time someone wants to force PVP.. if you want that go play EVE online. I have suggested pvp in the past, but under an optional venue, I.E. if a fleet wants to PVP then they can have a holding that is open to PVP. although it would be hilarious to watch the OP try to gank one od the mega-DPSers and see him get blown away in one pass.
    Spock.jpg

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    gradiigradii Member Posts: 2,824 Arc User
    Opinion of pvpers for most people in STO depicted in picture.

    200?cb=20081229233725&path-prefix=en

    "He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
    Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
    he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
    In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
    He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
    He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
    He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
    He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
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    vetteguy904vetteguy904 Member Posts: 3,857 Arc User
    albaeok wrote: »
    I have tried to invite people I know in other games to come try STO. Many simply refused because of no real pvp in the game, but a few did try out the game. Many members are moderate to hard core pvpers. With that said, only 2 come one once in a while, maybe for fleet events we have, or just to come on keep in touch. That was out of 24 people I brought here. Most of these guys like open sand box pvp gank style games so there is a little bias here. I would love to see something done with pvp though. ANYTHING is better then what we have now. I believe there are more people who would come to this game if we did have better pvp game play.

    and 3 times as many would leave if you force PvP down thier throats. and i suspect the PvP ers are not the whales keeping the game afloat, it's the space barbie players who would bail
    Spock.jpg

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    protoneousprotoneous Member Posts: 2,985 Arc User
    you can avoid conflict and get all the rewards by doing lots of Red Alerts instead
    So you end up with a game based to an extent upon the highly repetitive completion of least effort tasks with an audience that is not only PvP adverse but at times can seem even performance adverse. I sure hope they got the formula right.
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    meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    patrickngo wrote: »
    I wonder at the freakouts people have about PvP ever being "forced" when the developers can't even begin to develop and manage viable Voluntary PvP, there are zero developers on staff conversant with the style at all, and anyone who's worked at Cryptic and developed even a passably civil relationship with PvP'ers winds up "leaving under amicable conditions" for another game company quite soon after doing so.

    (...)

    Why? because the dev team is, top to bottom and side-to-side, apalled at the idea of conflict-based gameplay, which in turn means you will never face forced PvP.

    It is simply not going to happen, no poll will ever change this, no pressure will ever change it, no 'me-tooism' looking at more successful games will ever change it.

    It's not just that they can't do it, it's that they don't want to do it either.

    Rather the opposite: it's not that they don't want to per se, but they can't. This is a casual PvE game at heart. And I think they honestly gave PvP a last genuine try. They made a whole Competitive Rep, along with slottable, daily booster devices (which I'm sure they thought would become the next fad). But it tanked, badly. They've learned their lesson: the vast majority just wants a laid-back, fun, casual game.

    You know, I've often accused Cryptic of only thinking about the bottom line. But sometimes the bottom line is a good thing, when it causes you to realize you can't forcibly change the game into something it's not.
    3lsZz0w.jpg
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    mirrorterranmirrorterran Member Posts: 423 Arc User
    THE most memorable moment I've had in this game is the time there was a bug that allowed KDF to invade ESD. Unfortunate that the game is ran by care bears.
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    jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 10,366 Arc User
    edited September 2018
    THE most memorable moment I've had in this game is the time there was a bug that allowed KDF to invade ESD. Unfortunate that the game is ran by care bears.

    If that bothers you, well, once again, EvE Online is that way. ---->
    Lorna-Wing-sig.png
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    rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 58,020 Community Moderator
    patrickngo wrote: »

    It's why their thread asking "What can we teach better" is a futile gesture. The game itself is not structured in such a way that players need to KNOW anything.

    How is it futile if you just hit on one of the main problems of players not knowing in your own post?

    I've fielded the occasional question in ESD Zone Chat about how to do things in the past. I've also been told to STFU by trolls, who'd rather rant about politics like spoiled kindergarden students, while giving said helpful advice.

    Fact of the matter is there are things in game that do need clearer instruction. THAT is the purpose of that thread. To hash out exactly what needs to be more clear by ASKING THE COMMUNITY WHO KNOWS THESE THINGS. Us veteran players may know what needs to be known, but from a fresh rookie player's perspective... where do you go for such knowledge? Asking in Zone Chat is just as likely to get the usual "Alt-F4" troll reply as it is anything useful. And frankly ESD Zone Chat can turn into a cesspool of stupidity, making getting that helpful information from veteran players incredably difficult.
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
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    meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    patrickngo wrote: »
    You've ranted about the AFK penalty hitting bystanders, well, that imbalance is a symptom-because in a conflict-based game ruleset, you can't get that without something being drastically wrong.


    I've never 'ranted' about AFK Penalties, LOL. For one, because I don't think I ever even received one (I gnerally do enough DPS). And, as others have pointed out, one really needs to do only like 1% of the total dmg to avoid it.

    And I generally don't care about AFK-ers either: I just do my own thang, and since I don't do stuff above Advanced, I figure, where 5 can do it, usually 4 can too.
    3lsZz0w.jpg
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    sargeantandy#7136 sargeantandy Member Posts: 2 Arc User
    I think the OP would prefer BattleStar Galactica Online, that's pretty much PVP. Few events, no real seasons though.
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    protoneousprotoneous Member Posts: 2,985 Arc User
    THE most memorable moment I've had in this game is the time there was a bug that allowed KDF to invade ESD. [...]
    It was so much fun I was hoping it would be a regular event for both factions. Perhaps it'll make the whiteboard stage soon?

    I really give the OP a thumbs up for his concept and more importantly his choice of words. Thanks OP, every once in a while you need a good thread that puts a smile on your face. Bonus: nobody knows if you were serious or not. Don't spoil it.
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    rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 58,020 Community Moderator
    Or they'll move on to rant and rave about the next Trek series. Don't forget we got the upcoming Picard series that may very well end up in their sights because "its not the same".
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
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    stormcrow#8086 stormcrow Member Posts: 23 Arc User
    The PVP conundrum would require an exclusive PVP server and a new faction "Private Sector". How do we intrigue PWE to do this? Buy selling Alternate Universe Mirror.

    Ooohhh, what is an AUM, you ask? It is this neat little thing that allows you, for a nominal fee, to transfer your Uber Admiral and his Uber ship to the PVP galaxy where PVP is on 24/7… yep, while your Captain is in the latrine a battalion of Feringi striped you down to to a ship skeleton, a functional latrine and a cold walk through space after you flush.

    What does “Private Sector” have to do with it?

    Again, PWE is a business and it is not economically viable to invest development resources into an exclusive PVP server, which may or may not get attention. So, how do we make PVP viable with factions such as they are? We implement a private sector that allows players to be independent operatives rather than aligned to a faction.

    How does this improve my play experience?

    With STO faction you are going to be a commander of a “faction ship” with one of three jobs with eventual specializations. What you are not ever going to be is a Pirate, Privateer, Trader, Mercenary, Bounty Hunter, so on and so forth. Therefore, by introducing “Private Sector”, which we have seen in the series in many forms, we shake of the restraints of “Military Service”, say “TRIBBLE the prime directive”, end the slavish devotion as a Legionary cohort and become a self centered egomaniac with delusions of grandeur with the single minded focus of losing the delusion and just seizing the reality of grandeur.

    So what does the Private Sector look like?

    Privateer: an armed ship owned and crewed by private individuals holding a government commission and authorized for use in war, especially in the capture of enemy merchant shipping. These “commissions” allow the Privateer to conduct escort and military operations under the color of “Commissioning Government (Orion’s, Vulcans, Klingons, etc…) Authority.

    Privateers have no immediate “enemies. Privateers enter “Red Alert” when their “commision” is being attacked.

    Pirate: has an armed ship and do whatever they want. Pirates flying under their colors automatically trigger “enemy red alerts” unless “neutrality treaties” are in place with said species and/or you are utilizing clandinstine measures.

    Trader: A trader starts with a frigate with minimal armament, but oodles of cargo and supplies. Traders only trigger “Enemy Red Alerts” when they are being raided. Trade contract/agreements allows a Trader to call in support if they are in or near a sector that they have trade contract/agreements. However, in Federation space, most all distress calls will be answered
    without hesitation. In Klingon space… well, when the fox hears the rabbit screaming he shows up… but not to help.

    Explorer: Explorers do not have the best munitions, but what they lack in fire power they make up for in speed, maneuverability, warp capacity and “special resources” (cloaking, singularity drives, etc…)

    Along with the usual “Tactical, Engineering, Science” MOS, the Private Sector has occupations in addition.

    Mercenary: Just like a tactical officer, but fights dirty.

    Quartermaster: Similar to an engineer that can work miracles, Quartermaster’s get you stuff. Any kind of stuff you need… sometimes even black market stuff.

    Technician: Why yes, I can integrate that cloaking device into your vessel… if you have enough Zen. Oh, you need that to fire while cloaked… how much money do you have?

    Rogue Scientist: So let me get this straight, you want your brain integrated into that ship? I can do that with this rusty scalpel and four hours of your time. You want to create a quantum singularity torpedo that will hurl a ship into another timeline? How much money do you have?

    Bounty Hunter: The unholy marriage of a tactical officer and a bloodhound.

    What’s the point of a Private Sector addition? Other than making PVP much more interesting and giving extreme viability to a PVP exclusive server, where Privateer fleets can be hired, Pirate fleets can be allies, Traders can outfit your fleet with the stuff you need and Explorers can do the recon on that enemy base that you just haven’t been able to get close to, the PVE perks are numerous.

    Aside from Foundry Mission creators going crazy with content for the Private Sector PVE gamers, the Private Sector gives us the flexibility to operate within the galaxy sans faction limits. Private Sector play does not benefit PVP exclusively, it compliments it, but more to the point it allows players to play the game as independent operatives doing their own thing. Case and point, Orion’s should be independent operatives either working on their own or working for the syndicate. To facilitate this, PWE would have to make a new faction “Orion Syndicate”, much like the Romulans have to choose a faction, Private Sector gives us the flexibility to start in the Private Sector doing our own thing as a Pirate, Privateer, Trader or Explorer.

    Very little changes, other than skins, need to be made. Ships still need crews, duty officers, researchers and so on. However, the missions in your duty roster would be different based on your Private Sector class, what you are doing in the galaxy would be different based on your class and being an operative in the Private sector should make it possible for other players to employ you.

    Furthermore, you should be able to resign/retire from a “faction” and move right on to the Private Sector. Nevertheless, you may want to consider that the bridge officer that you dismissed may have already moved into the Private Sector, became a Pirate and has been waiting for you to wander into his/her sector for some pay backs.
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    baddmoonrizinbaddmoonrizin Member Posts: 10,326 Community Moderator
    What the...???
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    jcswwjcsww Member Posts: 6,790 Arc User
    THE most memorable moment I've had in this game is the time there was a bug that allowed KDF to invade ESD. Unfortunate that the game is ran by care bears.

    I remember that! I had so much fun shooting ESD's security officers over by Club 47. It was absolutely harmless but players and devs when it comes to STO seem to lack a little sense of fun.
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    baddmoonrizinbaddmoonrizin Member Posts: 10,326 Community Moderator
    Well, this down voting mess is irritating has hell for me. :unamused:
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    Community Moderators are Unpaid Volunteers and NOT Employees of Gearbox/Cryptic
    Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
    ----> Contact Customer Support <----
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    talonxvtalonxv Member Posts: 4,257 Arc User
    > @echatty said:
    > rattler2 wrote: »
    >
    > No to forced PvP.
    >
    > Don't need to give grifers a reason to gank rookie players in Sector Space. Also... not everyone likes PvP, so it shouldn't be forced on people.
    >
    > With all due respect... you want a war...
    > I hear WoW's new Expansion is gonna refocus on the conflict between the Alliance and Horde.
    >
    >
    >
    > meimeitoo wrote: »
    >
    > Go play EvE Online. Seriously, no non-consensual PvP, please.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > This right here. There are already plenty of games out there with forced PvP, we don't need it here. STO would lose a lot of playerbase over forced PvP.
    >
    > Even with an opt-out feature that may or may not work.
    >
    > I echo these two. No forced PvP.

    If I want a PVP game I'll go play:
    War thunder
    World of tanks
    World of Warplanes
    World of Warships

    This game is seriously badly optimized for PvP action and it won't anytime soon.
    afMSv4g.jpg
    Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!

    http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
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    talonxvtalonxv Member Posts: 4,257 Arc User
    edited September 2018
    Dang it. Double post.
    afMSv4g.jpg
    Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!

    http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
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    talonxvtalonxv Member Posts: 4,257 Arc User
    > @echatty said:
    > rattler2 wrote: »
    >
    > No to forced PvP.
    >
    > Don't need to give grifers a reason to gank rookie players in Sector Space. Also... not everyone likes PvP, so it shouldn't be forced on people.
    >
    > With all due respect... you want a war...
    > I hear WoW's new Expansion is gonna refocus on the conflict between the Alliance and Horde.
    >
    >
    >
    > meimeitoo wrote: »
    >
    > Go play EvE Online. Seriously, no non-consensual PvP, please.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > This right here. There are already plenty of games out there with forced PvP, we don't need it here. STO would lose a lot of playerbase over forced PvP.
    >
    > Even with an opt-out feature that may or may not work.
    >
    > I echo these two. No forced PvP.

    If I want a PVP game I'll go play:
    War thunder
    World of tanks
    World of Warplanes
    World of Warships

    This game is seriously badly optimized for PvP action and it won't anytime soon.
    afMSv4g.jpg
    Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!

    http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
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