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renata666renata666 Member Posts: 147 Arc User
I'm looking into writing a story based on character progression in the game. I have a couple of questions though. Does anyone have an idea how much time should pass between episodes? Do I assume the "TV standard" of one week, or do I just fudge it?

Also, while the lower ranks don't present a problem, as I know it is common for lower ranked officers to command smaller vessels, I see a problem justifying having a fleet admiral in charge of any singular ship. So, do I just ignore the way the game promotes people and keep referring to them as "captain" in the story, or what?

Any suggestions or advice are welcome.
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Comments

  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,668 Arc User
    In-universe, according to the Temporal Agent storyline, the tutorial (Vega, the battle with USS Musashi, the attack on Virinat) takes place 18 months before the end of the Breen story arc. In my fan fiction I made it two years from Vega to "Surface Tension", and the rewritten Masterverse continuity as seen in Patrickngo's current story "The Most Foolish Klingon" puts the start of the Klingon War five years earlier than canon and Vega in (2406?).
    "Two ways to view the world, so similar at times / Two ways to rule the world, to justify their crimes / By Kings and Queens young men are sent to die in war / Their propaganda speaks those words been heard before"
    — Sabaton, "A Lifetime of War"
    VZ9ASdg.png
  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,668 Arc User
    And yes, according to naval tradition followed by Starfleet, anyone who commands a ship is addressed as "Captain" regardless of their actual rank. I'm maintaining my Bajoran main at ranked captain for the time being as well.
    "Two ways to view the world, so similar at times / Two ways to rule the world, to justify their crimes / By Kings and Queens young men are sent to die in war / Their propaganda speaks those words been heard before"
    — Sabaton, "A Lifetime of War"
    VZ9ASdg.png
  • renata666renata666 Member Posts: 147 Arc User
    Thanks!!
  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,091 Bug Hunter
    renata666 wrote: »
    I see a problem justifying having a fleet admiral in charge of any singular ship.

    I answered in another thread but...

    Ross was captain of his Galaxy, Riker had the Gal-X Ent D, Decker had the Constellation, Black had the Avenger (though that was the Mirror Universe), Pike was going to get the Enterprise back in ID, Kirk had the Enterprise in TMP (his Peter Pan syndrome was probably the reason he mucked about with his and Decker Jrs ranks), Archer kept the NX-01 up until its decommission, and so on.

    Ross was a VA, AGT Riker an Adm, Decker a Comm, Black is an Adm, Pike was a Comm (I think), Kirk was a RA, and Archer was a Comm.

    Sisko was the only person I can think of who captained a ship on a permanent basis whilst not a captain in rank. Ironically making it far more common for admirals to have personal ships than junior officers.​​
    22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

    #TASforSTO


    '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
    'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
    'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
    '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
    'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
    '...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek

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  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,668 Arc User
    > @artan42 said:
    > renata666 wrote: »
    >
    > I see a problem justifying having a fleet admiral in charge of any singular ship.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > I answered in another thread but...
    >
    > Ross was captain of his Galaxy, Riker had the Gal-X Ent D, Decker had the Constellation, Black had the Avenger (though that was the Mirror Universe), Pike was going to get the Enterprise back in ID, Kirk had the Enterprise in TMP (his Peter Pan syndrome was probably the reason he mucked about with his and Decker Jrs ranks), Archer kept the NX-01 up until its decommission, and so on.
    >
    > Ross was a VA, AGT Riker an Adm, Decker a Comm, Black is an Adm, Pike was a Comm (I think), Kirk was a RA, and Archer was a Comm.
    >
    > Sisko was the only person I can think of who captained a ship on a permanent basis whilst not a captain in rank. Ironically making it far more common for admirals to have personal ships than junior officers.​​

    — What Galaxy-class? Ross's shown flagship was an Intrepid-class, USS Bellerophon.
    — That entire episode was a figment of Q's imagination.
    — Decker is a commodore, which is an O-6 captain given a billet that ought to belong to a rear admiral.
    — Spock was Captain of the Enterprise in title, but he insisted on surrendering tactical command to Kirk, which is allowed.
    — Archer was not promoted to admiral in canon until the Kelvin Timeline, in which he's spoken of but never depicted.
    — In addition to having Defiant as a secondary command, Sisko at one point was made an aide to Ross and was replaced with Jadzia, a lieutenant commander (which is frankly a more realistic rank for a corvette CO anyway). See also the tradition discussed in that exact scene where anybody in command of a ship is addressed as "captain" regardless of their actual rank. ("Cadet, by the time YOU took command, there'd be nobody left to call you anything.")

    The only unfalsifiable example is General Martok, actually, and that's easily justified by Klingon culture.
    "Two ways to view the world, so similar at times / Two ways to rule the world, to justify their crimes / By Kings and Queens young men are sent to die in war / Their propaganda speaks those words been heard before"
    — Sabaton, "A Lifetime of War"
    VZ9ASdg.png
  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,091 Bug Hunter
    starswordc wrote: »
    > @artan42 said:
    > renata666 wrote: »
    >
    > I see a problem justifying having a fleet admiral in charge of any singular ship.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > I answered in another thread but...
    >
    > Ross was captain of his Galaxy, Riker had the Gal-X Ent D, Decker had the Constellation, Black had the Avenger (though that was the Mirror Universe), Pike was going to get the Enterprise back in ID, Kirk had the Enterprise in TMP (his Peter Pan syndrome was probably the reason he mucked about with his and Decker Jrs ranks), Archer kept the NX-01 up until its decommission, and so on.
    >
    > Ross was a VA, AGT Riker an Adm, Decker a Comm, Black is an Adm, Pike was a Comm (I think), Kirk was a RA, and Archer was a Comm.
    >
    > Sisko was the only person I can think of who captained a ship on a permanent basis whilst not a captain in rank. Ironically making it far more common for admirals to have personal ships than junior officers.

    — What Galaxy-class? Ross's shown flagship was an Intrepid-class, USS Bellerophon.
    — That entire episode was a figment of Q's imagination.
    — Decker is a commodore, which is an O-6 captain given a billet that ought to belong to a rear admiral.
    — Spock was Captain of the Enterprise in title, but he insisted on surrendering tactical command to Kirk, which is allowed.
    — Archer was not promoted to admiral in canon until the Kelvin Timeline, in which he's spoken of but never depicted.
    — In addition to having Defiant as a secondary command, Sisko at one point was made an aide to Ross and was replaced with Jadzia, a lieutenant commander (which is frankly a more realistic rank for a corvette CO anyway). See also the tradition discussed in that exact scene where anybody in command of a ship is addressed as "captain" regardless of their actual rank. ("Cadet, by the time YOU took command, there'd be nobody left to call you anything.")

    The only unfalsifiable example is General Martok, actually, and that's easily justified by Klingon culture.
    • Ross is seen in the centre seat of a Galaxy in the Dominion War. The Bellerophon is not his personal ship, it's captain is mentioned off hand.
    • Yes, but the presentation in terms of the story is that it's business as usual.
    • Commodores are admirals, they are one star admirals, the rank below rear admiral.
    • Therefore Kirk had command of the Enterprise. However I was referring to TMP where it was Decker's ship, not Spock's.
    • Archer is a commodore in the last seen of Enterprise with no suggestion of recently being promoted, the NX-01 is decommissioned after the signing but it was still his ship up to that point.
    • The Defiant is not a corvette. It's an escort/Warship. There is no such starship role in Starfleet as a corvette. Kirk's red car from 09 is the closest you're going to get to that.
    • I know they say that (and do it when addressing Commander Sisko as Captain, I never claimed otherwise, however none of the aforementioned Admirals were referred to as Captains, only by their ranks, so it's obviously not a rule, just a tradition.

    I never mentioned Martok (I'm only talking about Starfleet), but I did leave off Marcus (a Fleet Admiral) and did mention Pike (however I thought he was a Commodore, however it seems he's a Rear Admiral).​​
    22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

    #TASforSTO


    '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
    'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
    'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
    '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
    'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
    '...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek

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  • admiralnatadmiralnat Member Posts: 22,432 Arc User
    artan42 wrote: »
    starswordc wrote: »
    > @artan42 said:
    > renata666 wrote: »
    >
    > I see a problem justifying having a fleet admiral in charge of any singular ship.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > I answered in another thread but...
    >
    > Ross was captain of his Galaxy, Riker had the Gal-X Ent D, Decker had the Constellation, Black had the Avenger (though that was the Mirror Universe), Pike was going to get the Enterprise back in ID, Kirk had the Enterprise in TMP (his Peter Pan syndrome was probably the reason he mucked about with his and Decker Jrs ranks), Archer kept the NX-01 up until its decommission, and so on.
    >
    > Ross was a VA, AGT Riker an Adm, Decker a Comm, Black is an Adm, Pike was a Comm (I think), Kirk was a RA, and Archer was a Comm.
    >
    > Sisko was the only person I can think of who captained a ship on a permanent basis whilst not a captain in rank. Ironically making it far more common for admirals to have personal ships than junior officers.

    — What Galaxy-class? Ross's shown flagship was an Intrepid-class, USS Bellerophon.
    — That entire episode was a figment of Q's imagination.
    — Decker is a commodore, which is an O-6 captain given a billet that ought to belong to a rear admiral.
    — Spock was Captain of the Enterprise in title, but he insisted on surrendering tactical command to Kirk, which is allowed.
    — Archer was not promoted to admiral in canon until the Kelvin Timeline, in which he's spoken of but never depicted.
    — In addition to having Defiant as a secondary command, Sisko at one point was made an aide to Ross and was replaced with Jadzia, a lieutenant commander (which is frankly a more realistic rank for a corvette CO anyway). See also the tradition discussed in that exact scene where anybody in command of a ship is addressed as "captain" regardless of their actual rank. ("Cadet, by the time YOU took command, there'd be nobody left to call you anything.")

    The only unfalsifiable example is General Martok, actually, and that's easily justified by Klingon culture.
    • Ross is seen in the centre seat of a Galaxy in the Dominion War. The Bellerophon is not his personal ship, it's captain is mentioned off hand.
    • Yes, but the presentation in terms of the story is that it's business as usual.
    • Commodores are admirals, they are one star admirals, the rank below rear admiral.
    • Therefore Kirk had command of the Enterprise. However I was referring to TMP where it was Decker's ship, not Spock's.
    • Archer is a commodore in the last seen of Enterprise with no suggestion of recently being promoted, the NX-01 is decommissioned after the signing but it was still his ship up to that point.
    • The Defiant is not a corvette. It's an escort/Warship. There is no such starship role in Starfleet as a corvette. Kirk's red car from 09 is the closest you're going to get to that.
    • I know they say that (and do it when addressing Commander Sisko as Captain, I never claimed otherwise, however none of the aforementioned Admirals were referred to as Captains, only by their ranks, so it's obviously not a rule, just a tradition.

    I never mentioned Martok (I'm only talking about Starfleet), but I did leave off Marcus (a Fleet Admiral) and did mention Pike (however I thought he was a Commodore, however it seems he's a Rear Admiral).

    Admiral Marcus commanded the U.S.S. Vengeance, a ship built and operated by Section 31, not Starfleet. I don't think Starfleet's typical rules applied.​​
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  • renata666renata666 Member Posts: 147 Arc User
    So, other than the conflict about commodores and rear admirals. (The US Navy discontinued Commodores years ago, and made Read Admiral lower half the one star rank.) there is precedence in Star Trek cannon for admirals to retain command of a ship. Interesting.

    Thank you, one and all. :smile:
  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 8,379 Arc User
    You can call your ship's commander any rank you like. I insist that most of mine are in fact captains.

    Also, if you're writing the story, you can assume any passage of time you like. I find that whole "two year" thing highly improbable, even with all these back-to-back wars, because in-universe I'm pretty sure it takes more than ten minutes to fly from Sol to Bajor, even at high warp.
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  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,668 Arc User
    jonsills wrote: »
    You can call your ship's commander any rank you like. I insist that most of mine are in fact captains.

    Also, if you're writing the story, you can assume any passage of time you like. I find that whole "two year" thing highly improbable, even with all these back-to-back wars, because in-universe I'm pretty sure it takes more than ten minutes to fly from Sol to Bajor, even at high warp.

    Besides the fact that the speed curve is asymptotic to warp 10 anyway, Star Trek's pretty much always had people traveling at speed of plot.
    "Two ways to view the world, so similar at times / Two ways to rule the world, to justify their crimes / By Kings and Queens young men are sent to die in war / Their propaganda speaks those words been heard before"
    — Sabaton, "A Lifetime of War"
    VZ9ASdg.png
  • shadowfang240shadowfang240 Member Posts: 31,270 Arc User
    edited August 2017
    warp travel was shown to be way faster in several instances of the near-future being shown, as evidenced by the warp factors ABOVE 10 in AGT, a shuttle managing to get near the beta/delta border in a short amount of time in Timeless and another instance of a warp factor above 10 in Endgame (i think; i don't remember if kim ever called for a warp factor on the rhode island)

    obviously those developments in faster warp drive also occurred in STO's future too​​
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  • baddmoonrizinbaddmoonrizin Member Posts: 5,710 Community Moderator
    @somtaawkhar has the best information on the break down of the STO timeline. I've been working off and on on a more exact timeline, but he has a pretty good best guesstimate so far of where things fall along the timeline.
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  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,091 Bug Hunter
    admiralnat wrote: »
    artan42 wrote: »
    starswordc wrote: »
    > @artan42 said:
    > renata666 wrote: »
    >
    > I see a problem justifying having a fleet admiral in charge of any singular ship.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > I answered in another thread but...
    >
    > Ross was captain of his Galaxy, Riker had the Gal-X Ent D, Decker had the Constellation, Black had the Avenger (though that was the Mirror Universe), Pike was going to get the Enterprise back in ID, Kirk had the Enterprise in TMP (his Peter Pan syndrome was probably the reason he mucked about with his and Decker Jrs ranks), Archer kept the NX-01 up until its decommission, and so on.
    >
    > Ross was a VA, AGT Riker an Adm, Decker a Comm, Black is an Adm, Pike was a Comm (I think), Kirk was a RA, and Archer was a Comm.
    >
    > Sisko was the only person I can think of who captained a ship on a permanent basis whilst not a captain in rank. Ironically making it far more common for admirals to have personal ships than junior officers.

    — What Galaxy-class? Ross's shown flagship was an Intrepid-class, USS Bellerophon.
    — That entire episode was a figment of Q's imagination.
    — Decker is a commodore, which is an O-6 captain given a billet that ought to belong to a rear admiral.
    — Spock was Captain of the Enterprise in title, but he insisted on surrendering tactical command to Kirk, which is allowed.
    — Archer was not promoted to admiral in canon until the Kelvin Timeline, in which he's spoken of but never depicted.
    — In addition to having Defiant as a secondary command, Sisko at one point was made an aide to Ross and was replaced with Jadzia, a lieutenant commander (which is frankly a more realistic rank for a corvette CO anyway). See also the tradition discussed in that exact scene where anybody in command of a ship is addressed as "captain" regardless of their actual rank. ("Cadet, by the time YOU took command, there'd be nobody left to call you anything.")

    The only unfalsifiable example is General Martok, actually, and that's easily justified by Klingon culture.
    • Ross is seen in the centre seat of a Galaxy in the Dominion War. The Bellerophon is not his personal ship, it's captain is mentioned off hand.
    • Yes, but the presentation in terms of the story is that it's business as usual.
    • Commodores are admirals, they are one star admirals, the rank below rear admiral.
    • Therefore Kirk had command of the Enterprise. However I was referring to TMP where it was Decker's ship, not Spock's.
    • Archer is a commodore in the last seen of Enterprise with no suggestion of recently being promoted, the NX-01 is decommissioned after the signing but it was still his ship up to that point.
    • The Defiant is not a corvette. It's an escort/Warship. There is no such starship role in Starfleet as a corvette. Kirk's red car from 09 is the closest you're going to get to that.
    • I know they say that (and do it when addressing Commander Sisko as Captain, I never claimed otherwise, however none of the aforementioned Admirals were referred to as Captains, only by their ranks, so it's obviously not a rule, just a tradition.

    I never mentioned Martok (I'm only talking about Starfleet), but I did leave off Marcus (a Fleet Admiral) and did mention Pike (however I thought he was a Commodore, however it seems he's a Rear Admiral).

    Admiral Marcus commanded the U.S.S. Vengeance, a ship built and operated by Section 31, not Starfleet. I don't think Starfleet's typical rules applied.

    The Vengeance (I don't think it had a prefix) was still a Starfleet ship, it was just operated by S31 (S31 is a part of Starfleet) in a similar way I'd imagine to the Pasture being a Starfleet ship operated by Starfleet Medical.​​
    22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

    #TASforSTO


    '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
    'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
    'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
    '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
    'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
    '...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek

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  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,668 Arc User
    Section 31 is NOT part of Starfleet, they're AT BEST a super-black civilian agency that associates with it. And the implication given in the original intent is that they're not actually backed by the Federation government, but rather an ultranationalist "shadow government" group made up of Starfleet and civilian personnel. Everything else is BS that Enterprise came up with because of the writers losing track of Star Trek and falling into the "national security uber alles" mindset.
    "Two ways to view the world, so similar at times / Two ways to rule the world, to justify their crimes / By Kings and Queens young men are sent to die in war / Their propaganda speaks those words been heard before"
    — Sabaton, "A Lifetime of War"
    VZ9ASdg.png
  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,091 Bug Hunter
    They are in the founding charter of Starfleet, have power to classify Starfleet Medical, power to give orders to Ross, and have a starbase in the Sol System. They ARE a branch of Starfleet. Your personal dislike of them is irrelevant to that fact. I don't care how much you dislike ENT or S31 DS9 gives more than enough evidence that they are official, ENT and ID simply seal the deal.
    22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

    #TASforSTO


    '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
    'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
    'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
    '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
    'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
    '...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek

    Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,668 Arc User
    edited August 2017
    > @artan42 said:
    > They are in the founding charter of Starfleet, have power to classify Starfleet Medical, power to give orders to Ross, and have a starbase in the Sol System. They ARE a branch of Starfleet. Your personal dislike of them is irrelevant to that fact. I don't care how much you dislike ENT or S31 DS9 gives more than enough evidence that they are official, ENT and ID simply seal the deal.


    — No, they are NAMED AFTER a section of the Earth Starfleet (NOT UFP Starfleet, underline) Charter. Read the original line here: http://www.chakoteya.net/DS9/542.htm
    — Having ability to get inconvenient information classified doesn't require any actual position in the legitimate chain of command, it can be done through connections. Corruption is still a thing in the Federation, as that entire plot, as well as Pressman, Leyton, and Dougherty served to point out.
    — Ross specifically said he doesn't work for Section 31, it was an alliance of mutual convenience. http://www.chakoteya.net/DS9/565.htm
    "Two ways to view the world, so similar at times / Two ways to rule the world, to justify their crimes / By Kings and Queens young men are sent to die in war / Their propaganda speaks those words been heard before"
    — Sabaton, "A Lifetime of War"
    VZ9ASdg.png
  • admiralnatadmiralnat Member Posts: 22,432 Arc User
    2jwMZnF.gif
    Winning.
    It's what I do. It's what I just did. It's what I'm about to do again. It's being undisputed emperor of an empire that cannot be disproved as the most powerful intergalactic empire in the entire universe; I always win, and everything I've won will definitely be won again... by me. It's my signature move, and thus, it's my signature. Problem, Sonic? Yeah, I mean you, Sonic, because you're being beat up, despite your being super. You can't even hit Shadow back, can you? Nope, he's too strong for you. Of course, I'm not Shadow, I'm the Super Emerald fueled fox that's pulling the strings; trust me, the fight would only be a few frames long if I were in it personally. Oh, and here's something for all you guys thinking you can win Last Post Wins 3.0; trust me, I'll be around a long while after the sun has already consumed the Earth while I sit out with the forum servers on Titan. Yes, I mean Titan... that comparatively little moon orbiting Saturn. It's a nice little place in a version of our solar system where the sun is a lot bigger. I mean, Mars will last longer than your precious Earth, but by then, it'll be one hot planet... and I figure Saturn's moon will be about the right temperate for a super-powered warlord. Oh, and trust me, I packed a lot of rings, and I mean a lot. Trillions, in fact, so I'll never run out of rings to power my super form. Besides, if I start to run out, I can just chaos control more rings into my reach. It's quite easy, really. You should try it. Granted, you'll never have the 7 Super Emeralds that I have in my possession, nor the Master Emerald that I've got hidden away somewhere... absorbed into my body thanks to Sonic logic, but whatever. I win. Again. I'm not kidding, either. Just check Last Post Wins, and if the last post isn't mine, it soon will be. Very, very soon. You can count on it. Seriously. By the way, if you're wondering, there's a really great Super Tails sprite sheet out there... somewhere... by some guy named shadow_91. These sprites are really great. Like, really good. Quality. Just like what I like to see in a sprite sheet. Also, credit to Joe T.E., his Sonic Battle style Super Sonic sprites have a great palette for a Super Sonic being beat up by Super Shadow, who's palette is from a Super Shadow sheet of unknown origin, but it turns out they were "borrowed" from a better sheet made by a certain Domenico. Oh, and the gif is actually a custom made super version of a similar gif, of which there are only 3 or 4 copies to be found by Google, and even then, evidently of an unknown source. Yep, it's one of those things. Stuff people have made, spread around, only for it to vanish and you to be the only person who still has a copy, not even knowing where it came from... like, literally at all. Oh, and anyone notice that Shadow's little chaos snap blast thingies are red and blue now? Yeah, I changed it. Problem, fans of purple? Yeah, I know you got a problem with that one, but you can just deal with it. After all, according to all known laws of aviation, there is no way a bee should be able to fly... alright, alright, I'll spare you the entire Bee Movie script, just Google it if you want. By the way, ever wonder how your characters would've ended up if they evolved in another universe? Yeah, that. Think about it. Ok, so you probably didn't bother reading up to here, but whatever, here's a surprise for you guys over at ESD (RP) who were crazy enough to read this: Emperor Nat of the mcfreakin' Terran Empire is gonna be right all along! The universe is gonna go BOOM! *Thumbs up to the insanity*
    Oh, now don't tell me you want in on all this! Well, ok. Look this that Egg Pawn hanging outside your window, pointing his laser rifle at you, waiting for my next order. He's doing his part. He helps conquer the weak-minded. He roboticizes the weak-bodied. Heck, he even helps keep the useless people from causing any trouble, but you know what? Join. Find the closest Nataran Empire roboticization center near you and join the ranks, before the ranks find you. Oh, I know, you figure it must be so satisfying to know I basically rule the world now, and you know what? It is, but do you want to know the true definition of satisfaction? Well, let me tell you a little story. One day, you see a brand new event. They're giving out boxes that give old event stuff. Your dilithium is plentiful. You buy a whole lot of Phoenix packs on your main, and open them all. You get one epic token. Then, you decide, that since you have all the Breen ships and don't give a damn about the others, you exchange it for an ultra rare, and grab yourself a Jem'Hadar Attack Ship and for the hell of it, a Voth Bulwark. You open both, leaving the Bulwark in your vast masses of starships as you jump into the bugship and deck it out, deck by deck, into the most awesome Jem'Hadar ship you can. You fly it. You enjoy it. Eventually, you get bored and leave, leaving the old Bulwark never flown... until later. Your main is long complete. Your new alt main, based off some character you pulled out of nothing just to explain away some starship being in service without the command of your dear admiral, is also complete. Mostly. Their reps and doffs are hard at work, getting you stuff. You realize the potential, and head back for your dear admiral, pull the most Voth themed build you can out of thin air, and suit up in your giant ship in the shape of you know what. You head out... and cause all sorts of havoc. Enemies scream out your name as their very life is drained away by your swarms of Aceton Assimilators. They complain to the devs of your OPness when you revive yourself from death every time you die. Do you show any form of mercy? No. After all, this isn't the United Federation of Planets, this is mother frakkin' Starfleet, where you explore strange new worlds and kick butt never kicked before. Oh, and you realize that I just wrote another speech rivaling your own signature. Cool. Oh, wait, that's just the original draft, it is part of my signature now. Oh, and yes, I am aware that I have become a Canadian Regent; one day, sooner than you'd expect, we'll suddenly decide to take over the world and declare an "alliance", and I shall become it's Regent. You know, like the Klingon-Cardassian Alliance in the mirror universe of our beloved Star Trek. Oh, who'll we be taking over with? I dunno, maybe [REDACTED], or maybe aliens from outer space. Guess you'll have to wait and find out, won't we? Until then, don't ask too many questions, or else my Breen allies on Titania might pick up on your -- [REDACTED BY BREEN CONFEDERACY FOR REASONS] Also, psst... keep an eye out for flying Tribbles! Also walls. Big, great walls, separating entire continents apart. Walls patrolled by Tribbles. Flying Tribbles. Flying Nukara Tribbles. Don't worry, it's not like they were on Venus with a herd of Tholians or anything, they just like the extreme heat and brutal weather like acid rain and hurricane force winds as the norm. Oh, and definitely keep your eye out on any two-tailed foxes, because if they ain't glowing, they're definitely an imposter. Possibly an Undine, we caught one of those once in my place once. Oh, and if you find a two-tailed fox that doesn't like the cold... most certainly ask him to say sorry. If he refuses, DESTROY HIM WITH A DOOMSDAY MACHINE, BECAUSE THERE'S NOTHING ELSE THAT WOULD BE ENOUGH AGAINST SUCH AN OVERPOWERED IMPOSTER!

    tr;dr, I am winning last post wins 3.0. Thank you for your time.
    Oh, look, an explosion...
  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 8,379 Arc User
    S31 had a personal starbase in Sol system in the Kelvin Timeline. In Prime, that's Jupiter Research Station, operated above-board by Starfleet.
    Lorna-Wing-sig.png
  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,091 Bug Hunter
    starswordc wrote: »
    > @artan42 said:
    > They are in the founding charter of Starfleet, have power to classify Starfleet Medical, power to give orders to Ross, and have a starbase in the Sol System. They ARE a branch of Starfleet. Your personal dislike of them is irrelevant to that fact. I don't care how much you dislike ENT or S31 DS9 gives more than enough evidence that they are official, ENT and ID simply seal the deal.


    — No, they are NAMED AFTER a section of the Earth Starfleet (NOT UFP Starfleet, underline) Charter. Read the original line here: http://www.chakoteya.net/DS9/542.htm
    — Having ability to get inconvenient information classified doesn't require any actual position in the legitimate chain of command, it can be done through connections. Corruption is still a thing in the Federation, as that entire plot, as well as Pressman, Leyton, and Dougherty served to point out.
    — Ross specifically said he doesn't work for Section 31, it was an alliance of mutual convenience. http://www.chakoteya.net/DS9/565.htm

    Yes, and as we know, the Earth Starfleet is the Federation Starfleet. The two organisations are identical. Not a single hint of Vulcan or Andorian systems are seen in the Federation Starfleet, it's structure, ranks, positions, pendents, insignia etc. are identical, S31 will have been carried over and was as seen in ID where they have a Station in the Sol System.

    Except they are in the chain of command, they are a branch of Starfleet Intelligence as Slone says, they're hardly that good at hiding if they're going around threatening officers to do things for them are they? And I never said Ross was S31, I said he took orders from Slone. He's not going to take them from a terrorist is he.

    Again, you're simply letting your personal dislike of them stopping you from looking at evidence that runs contrary to your view, even explicitly ignoring ENT and ID to maintain the delusion you can keep them as a little rag-tag group of terrorists for whatever reason.
    jonsills wrote: »
    S31 had a personal starbase in Sol system in the Kelvin Timeline. In Prime, that's Jupiter Research Station, operated above-board by Starfleet.

    Io base isn't the same place as Jupiter Research Station. The first orbits Io, the second orbits Jupiter.​​
    22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

    #TASforSTO


    '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
    'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
    'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
    '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
    'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
    '...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek

    Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
  • admiralnatadmiralnat Member Posts: 22,432 Arc User
    artan42 wrote: »
    starswordc wrote: »
    > @artan42 said:
    > They are in the founding charter of Starfleet, have power to classify Starfleet Medical, power to give orders to Ross, and have a starbase in the Sol System. They ARE a branch of Starfleet. Your personal dislike of them is irrelevant to that fact. I don't care how much you dislike ENT or S31 DS9 gives more than enough evidence that they are official, ENT and ID simply seal the deal.


    — No, they are NAMED AFTER a section of the Earth Starfleet (NOT UFP Starfleet, underline) Charter. Read the original line here: http://www.chakoteya.net/DS9/542.htm
    — Having ability to get inconvenient information classified doesn't require any actual position in the legitimate chain of command, it can be done through connections. Corruption is still a thing in the Federation, as that entire plot, as well as Pressman, Leyton, and Dougherty served to point out.
    — Ross specifically said he doesn't work for Section 31, it was an alliance of mutual convenience. http://www.chakoteya.net/DS9/565.htm

    Yes, and as we know, the Earth Starfleet is the Federation Starfleet. The two organisations are identical. Not a single hint of Vulcan or Andorian systems are seen in the Federation Starfleet, it's structure, ranks, positions, pendents, insignia etc. are identical, S31 will have been carried over and was as seen in ID where they have a Station in the Sol System.

    Except they are in the chain of command, they are a branch of Starfleet Intelligence as Slone says, they're hardly that good at hiding if they're going around threatening officers to do things for them are they? And I never said Ross was S31, I said he took orders from Slone. He's not going to take them from a terrorist is he.

    Again, you're simply letting your personal dislike of them stopping you from looking at evidence that runs contrary to your view, even explicitly ignoring ENT and ID to maintain the delusion you can keep them as a little rag-tag group of terrorists for whatever reason.
    jonsills wrote: »
    S31 had a personal starbase in Sol system in the Kelvin Timeline. In Prime, that's Jupiter Research Station, operated above-board by Starfleet.

    Io base isn't the same place as Jupiter Research Station. The first orbits Io, the second orbits Jupiter.

    In ID, Marcus was the head of Section 31... and Starfleet itself. There's no sense in being head of a branch of a division of an organization you're already the head of. Section 31 also doesn't officially exist, which means they officially have no authority, either. They simply use authority that they've effectively created for themselves, not unlike the Romulan Tal Shiar or the Obsidian Order.

    Also, I must agree with Starsword with Ross; I don't believe Ross was ordered by Section 31 to do anything, he allowed Section 31 to have their way since, in his opinion, the ends (which he agreed with) justified the means in the given situation.​​
    2jwMZnF.gif
    Winning.
    It's what I do. It's what I just did. It's what I'm about to do again. It's being undisputed emperor of an empire that cannot be disproved as the most powerful intergalactic empire in the entire universe; I always win, and everything I've won will definitely be won again... by me. It's my signature move, and thus, it's my signature. Problem, Sonic? Yeah, I mean you, Sonic, because you're being beat up, despite your being super. You can't even hit Shadow back, can you? Nope, he's too strong for you. Of course, I'm not Shadow, I'm the Super Emerald fueled fox that's pulling the strings; trust me, the fight would only be a few frames long if I were in it personally. Oh, and here's something for all you guys thinking you can win Last Post Wins 3.0; trust me, I'll be around a long while after the sun has already consumed the Earth while I sit out with the forum servers on Titan. Yes, I mean Titan... that comparatively little moon orbiting Saturn. It's a nice little place in a version of our solar system where the sun is a lot bigger. I mean, Mars will last longer than your precious Earth, but by then, it'll be one hot planet... and I figure Saturn's moon will be about the right temperate for a super-powered warlord. Oh, and trust me, I packed a lot of rings, and I mean a lot. Trillions, in fact, so I'll never run out of rings to power my super form. Besides, if I start to run out, I can just chaos control more rings into my reach. It's quite easy, really. You should try it. Granted, you'll never have the 7 Super Emeralds that I have in my possession, nor the Master Emerald that I've got hidden away somewhere... absorbed into my body thanks to Sonic logic, but whatever. I win. Again. I'm not kidding, either. Just check Last Post Wins, and if the last post isn't mine, it soon will be. Very, very soon. You can count on it. Seriously. By the way, if you're wondering, there's a really great Super Tails sprite sheet out there... somewhere... by some guy named shadow_91. These sprites are really great. Like, really good. Quality. Just like what I like to see in a sprite sheet. Also, credit to Joe T.E., his Sonic Battle style Super Sonic sprites have a great palette for a Super Sonic being beat up by Super Shadow, who's palette is from a Super Shadow sheet of unknown origin, but it turns out they were "borrowed" from a better sheet made by a certain Domenico. Oh, and the gif is actually a custom made super version of a similar gif, of which there are only 3 or 4 copies to be found by Google, and even then, evidently of an unknown source. Yep, it's one of those things. Stuff people have made, spread around, only for it to vanish and you to be the only person who still has a copy, not even knowing where it came from... like, literally at all. Oh, and anyone notice that Shadow's little chaos snap blast thingies are red and blue now? Yeah, I changed it. Problem, fans of purple? Yeah, I know you got a problem with that one, but you can just deal with it. After all, according to all known laws of aviation, there is no way a bee should be able to fly... alright, alright, I'll spare you the entire Bee Movie script, just Google it if you want. By the way, ever wonder how your characters would've ended up if they evolved in another universe? Yeah, that. Think about it. Ok, so you probably didn't bother reading up to here, but whatever, here's a surprise for you guys over at ESD (RP) who were crazy enough to read this: Emperor Nat of the mcfreakin' Terran Empire is gonna be right all along! The universe is gonna go BOOM! *Thumbs up to the insanity*
    Oh, now don't tell me you want in on all this! Well, ok. Look this that Egg Pawn hanging outside your window, pointing his laser rifle at you, waiting for my next order. He's doing his part. He helps conquer the weak-minded. He roboticizes the weak-bodied. Heck, he even helps keep the useless people from causing any trouble, but you know what? Join. Find the closest Nataran Empire roboticization center near you and join the ranks, before the ranks find you. Oh, I know, you figure it must be so satisfying to know I basically rule the world now, and you know what? It is, but do you want to know the true definition of satisfaction? Well, let me tell you a little story. One day, you see a brand new event. They're giving out boxes that give old event stuff. Your dilithium is plentiful. You buy a whole lot of Phoenix packs on your main, and open them all. You get one epic token. Then, you decide, that since you have all the Breen ships and don't give a damn about the others, you exchange it for an ultra rare, and grab yourself a Jem'Hadar Attack Ship and for the hell of it, a Voth Bulwark. You open both, leaving the Bulwark in your vast masses of starships as you jump into the bugship and deck it out, deck by deck, into the most awesome Jem'Hadar ship you can. You fly it. You enjoy it. Eventually, you get bored and leave, leaving the old Bulwark never flown... until later. Your main is long complete. Your new alt main, based off some character you pulled out of nothing just to explain away some starship being in service without the command of your dear admiral, is also complete. Mostly. Their reps and doffs are hard at work, getting you stuff. You realize the potential, and head back for your dear admiral, pull the most Voth themed build you can out of thin air, and suit up in your giant ship in the shape of you know what. You head out... and cause all sorts of havoc. Enemies scream out your name as their very life is drained away by your swarms of Aceton Assimilators. They complain to the devs of your OPness when you revive yourself from death every time you die. Do you show any form of mercy? No. After all, this isn't the United Federation of Planets, this is mother frakkin' Starfleet, where you explore strange new worlds and kick butt never kicked before. Oh, and you realize that I just wrote another speech rivaling your own signature. Cool. Oh, wait, that's just the original draft, it is part of my signature now. Oh, and yes, I am aware that I have become a Canadian Regent; one day, sooner than you'd expect, we'll suddenly decide to take over the world and declare an "alliance", and I shall become it's Regent. You know, like the Klingon-Cardassian Alliance in the mirror universe of our beloved Star Trek. Oh, who'll we be taking over with? I dunno, maybe [REDACTED], or maybe aliens from outer space. Guess you'll have to wait and find out, won't we? Until then, don't ask too many questions, or else my Breen allies on Titania might pick up on your -- [REDACTED BY BREEN CONFEDERACY FOR REASONS] Also, psst... keep an eye out for flying Tribbles! Also walls. Big, great walls, separating entire continents apart. Walls patrolled by Tribbles. Flying Tribbles. Flying Nukara Tribbles. Don't worry, it's not like they were on Venus with a herd of Tholians or anything, they just like the extreme heat and brutal weather like acid rain and hurricane force winds as the norm. Oh, and definitely keep your eye out on any two-tailed foxes, because if they ain't glowing, they're definitely an imposter. Possibly an Undine, we caught one of those once in my place once. Oh, and if you find a two-tailed fox that doesn't like the cold... most certainly ask him to say sorry. If he refuses, DESTROY HIM WITH A DOOMSDAY MACHINE, BECAUSE THERE'S NOTHING ELSE THAT WOULD BE ENOUGH AGAINST SUCH AN OVERPOWERED IMPOSTER!

    tr;dr, I am winning last post wins 3.0. Thank you for your time.
    Oh, look, an explosion...
  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,091 Bug Hunter
    admiralnat wrote: »
    artan42 wrote: »
    starswordc wrote: »
    > @artan42 said:
    > They are in the founding charter of Starfleet, have power to classify Starfleet Medical, power to give orders to Ross, and have a starbase in the Sol System. They ARE a branch of Starfleet. Your personal dislike of them is irrelevant to that fact. I don't care how much you dislike ENT or S31 DS9 gives more than enough evidence that they are official, ENT and ID simply seal the deal.


    — No, they are NAMED AFTER a section of the Earth Starfleet (NOT UFP Starfleet, underline) Charter. Read the original line here: http://www.chakoteya.net/DS9/542.htm
    — Having ability to get inconvenient information classified doesn't require any actual position in the legitimate chain of command, it can be done through connections. Corruption is still a thing in the Federation, as that entire plot, as well as Pressman, Leyton, and Dougherty served to point out.
    — Ross specifically said he doesn't work for Section 31, it was an alliance of mutual convenience. http://www.chakoteya.net/DS9/565.htm

    Yes, and as we know, the Earth Starfleet is the Federation Starfleet. The two organisations are identical. Not a single hint of Vulcan or Andorian systems are seen in the Federation Starfleet, it's structure, ranks, positions, pendents, insignia etc. are identical, S31 will have been carried over and was as seen in ID where they have a Station in the Sol System.

    Except they are in the chain of command, they are a branch of Starfleet Intelligence as Slone says, they're hardly that good at hiding if they're going around threatening officers to do things for them are they? And I never said Ross was S31, I said he took orders from Slone. He's not going to take them from a terrorist is he.

    Again, you're simply letting your personal dislike of them stopping you from looking at evidence that runs contrary to your view, even explicitly ignoring ENT and ID to maintain the delusion you can keep them as a little rag-tag group of terrorists for whatever reason.
    jonsills wrote: »
    S31 had a personal starbase in Sol system in the Kelvin Timeline. In Prime, that's Jupiter Research Station, operated above-board by Starfleet.

    Io base isn't the same place as Jupiter Research Station. The first orbits Io, the second orbits Jupiter.

    In ID, Marcus was the head of Section 31... and Starfleet itself. There's no sense in being head of a branch of a division of an organization you're already the head of. Section 31 also doesn't officially exist, which means they officially have no authority, either. They simply use authority that they've effectively created for themselves, not unlike the Romulan Tal Shiar or the Obsidian Order.

    Also, I must agree with Starsword with Ross; I don't believe Ross was ordered by Section 31 to do anything, he allowed Section 31 to have their way since, in his opinion, the ends (which he agreed with) justified the means in the given situation.

    Eh? Marcus is head of S31 yes, but there's no suggestion he's head of Starfleet, he's just some Fleet Admiral. There's more than one of them.​​
    22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

    #TASforSTO


    '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
    'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
    'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
    '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
    'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
    '...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek

    Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
  • admiralnatadmiralnat Member Posts: 22,432 Arc User
    Oh?​​
    2jwMZnF.gif
    Winning.
    It's what I do. It's what I just did. It's what I'm about to do again. It's being undisputed emperor of an empire that cannot be disproved as the most powerful intergalactic empire in the entire universe; I always win, and everything I've won will definitely be won again... by me. It's my signature move, and thus, it's my signature. Problem, Sonic? Yeah, I mean you, Sonic, because you're being beat up, despite your being super. You can't even hit Shadow back, can you? Nope, he's too strong for you. Of course, I'm not Shadow, I'm the Super Emerald fueled fox that's pulling the strings; trust me, the fight would only be a few frames long if I were in it personally. Oh, and here's something for all you guys thinking you can win Last Post Wins 3.0; trust me, I'll be around a long while after the sun has already consumed the Earth while I sit out with the forum servers on Titan. Yes, I mean Titan... that comparatively little moon orbiting Saturn. It's a nice little place in a version of our solar system where the sun is a lot bigger. I mean, Mars will last longer than your precious Earth, but by then, it'll be one hot planet... and I figure Saturn's moon will be about the right temperate for a super-powered warlord. Oh, and trust me, I packed a lot of rings, and I mean a lot. Trillions, in fact, so I'll never run out of rings to power my super form. Besides, if I start to run out, I can just chaos control more rings into my reach. It's quite easy, really. You should try it. Granted, you'll never have the 7 Super Emeralds that I have in my possession, nor the Master Emerald that I've got hidden away somewhere... absorbed into my body thanks to Sonic logic, but whatever. I win. Again. I'm not kidding, either. Just check Last Post Wins, and if the last post isn't mine, it soon will be. Very, very soon. You can count on it. Seriously. By the way, if you're wondering, there's a really great Super Tails sprite sheet out there... somewhere... by some guy named shadow_91. These sprites are really great. Like, really good. Quality. Just like what I like to see in a sprite sheet. Also, credit to Joe T.E., his Sonic Battle style Super Sonic sprites have a great palette for a Super Sonic being beat up by Super Shadow, who's palette is from a Super Shadow sheet of unknown origin, but it turns out they were "borrowed" from a better sheet made by a certain Domenico. Oh, and the gif is actually a custom made super version of a similar gif, of which there are only 3 or 4 copies to be found by Google, and even then, evidently of an unknown source. Yep, it's one of those things. Stuff people have made, spread around, only for it to vanish and you to be the only person who still has a copy, not even knowing where it came from... like, literally at all. Oh, and anyone notice that Shadow's little chaos snap blast thingies are red and blue now? Yeah, I changed it. Problem, fans of purple? Yeah, I know you got a problem with that one, but you can just deal with it. After all, according to all known laws of aviation, there is no way a bee should be able to fly... alright, alright, I'll spare you the entire Bee Movie script, just Google it if you want. By the way, ever wonder how your characters would've ended up if they evolved in another universe? Yeah, that. Think about it. Ok, so you probably didn't bother reading up to here, but whatever, here's a surprise for you guys over at ESD (RP) who were crazy enough to read this: Emperor Nat of the mcfreakin' Terran Empire is gonna be right all along! The universe is gonna go BOOM! *Thumbs up to the insanity*
    Oh, now don't tell me you want in on all this! Well, ok. Look this that Egg Pawn hanging outside your window, pointing his laser rifle at you, waiting for my next order. He's doing his part. He helps conquer the weak-minded. He roboticizes the weak-bodied. Heck, he even helps keep the useless people from causing any trouble, but you know what? Join. Find the closest Nataran Empire roboticization center near you and join the ranks, before the ranks find you. Oh, I know, you figure it must be so satisfying to know I basically rule the world now, and you know what? It is, but do you want to know the true definition of satisfaction? Well, let me tell you a little story. One day, you see a brand new event. They're giving out boxes that give old event stuff. Your dilithium is plentiful. You buy a whole lot of Phoenix packs on your main, and open them all. You get one epic token. Then, you decide, that since you have all the Breen ships and don't give a damn about the others, you exchange it for an ultra rare, and grab yourself a Jem'Hadar Attack Ship and for the hell of it, a Voth Bulwark. You open both, leaving the Bulwark in your vast masses of starships as you jump into the bugship and deck it out, deck by deck, into the most awesome Jem'Hadar ship you can. You fly it. You enjoy it. Eventually, you get bored and leave, leaving the old Bulwark never flown... until later. Your main is long complete. Your new alt main, based off some character you pulled out of nothing just to explain away some starship being in service without the command of your dear admiral, is also complete. Mostly. Their reps and doffs are hard at work, getting you stuff. You realize the potential, and head back for your dear admiral, pull the most Voth themed build you can out of thin air, and suit up in your giant ship in the shape of you know what. You head out... and cause all sorts of havoc. Enemies scream out your name as their very life is drained away by your swarms of Aceton Assimilators. They complain to the devs of your OPness when you revive yourself from death every time you die. Do you show any form of mercy? No. After all, this isn't the United Federation of Planets, this is mother frakkin' Starfleet, where you explore strange new worlds and kick butt never kicked before. Oh, and you realize that I just wrote another speech rivaling your own signature. Cool. Oh, wait, that's just the original draft, it is part of my signature now. Oh, and yes, I am aware that I have become a Canadian Regent; one day, sooner than you'd expect, we'll suddenly decide to take over the world and declare an "alliance", and I shall become it's Regent. You know, like the Klingon-Cardassian Alliance in the mirror universe of our beloved Star Trek. Oh, who'll we be taking over with? I dunno, maybe [REDACTED], or maybe aliens from outer space. Guess you'll have to wait and find out, won't we? Until then, don't ask too many questions, or else my Breen allies on Titania might pick up on your -- [REDACTED BY BREEN CONFEDERACY FOR REASONS] Also, psst... keep an eye out for flying Tribbles! Also walls. Big, great walls, separating entire continents apart. Walls patrolled by Tribbles. Flying Tribbles. Flying Nukara Tribbles. Don't worry, it's not like they were on Venus with a herd of Tholians or anything, they just like the extreme heat and brutal weather like acid rain and hurricane force winds as the norm. Oh, and definitely keep your eye out on any two-tailed foxes, because if they ain't glowing, they're definitely an imposter. Possibly an Undine, we caught one of those once in my place once. Oh, and if you find a two-tailed fox that doesn't like the cold... most certainly ask him to say sorry. If he refuses, DESTROY HIM WITH A DOOMSDAY MACHINE, BECAUSE THERE'S NOTHING ELSE THAT WOULD BE ENOUGH AGAINST SUCH AN OVERPOWERED IMPOSTER!

    tr;dr, I am winning last post wins 3.0. Thank you for your time.
    Oh, look, an explosion...
  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,091 Bug Hunter
    admiralnat wrote: »
    Oh?​​

    Yup. Not a single citation on the entire page supports the claim made in the oppening paragraph, not even stuff from Apocrypha. It's most likely the editor for confused and didn't realise TUC shows Starfleet has multiple Fleet Admirals and assumed it meant Admiral of the Fleet.
    22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

    #TASforSTO


    '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
    'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
    'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
    '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
    'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
    '...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek

    Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
  • admiralnatadmiralnat Member Posts: 22,432 Arc User
    artan42 wrote: »
    admiralnat wrote: »

    Yup. Not a single citation on the entire page supports the claim made in the oppening paragraph, not even stuff from Apocrypha. It's most likely the editor for confused and didn't realise TUC shows Starfleet has multiple Fleet Admirals and assumed it meant Admiral of the Fleet.

    Then why does every source I've found agree that he was the head of Starfleet?​​
    2jwMZnF.gif
    Winning.
    It's what I do. It's what I just did. It's what I'm about to do again. It's being undisputed emperor of an empire that cannot be disproved as the most powerful intergalactic empire in the entire universe; I always win, and everything I've won will definitely be won again... by me. It's my signature move, and thus, it's my signature. Problem, Sonic? Yeah, I mean you, Sonic, because you're being beat up, despite your being super. You can't even hit Shadow back, can you? Nope, he's too strong for you. Of course, I'm not Shadow, I'm the Super Emerald fueled fox that's pulling the strings; trust me, the fight would only be a few frames long if I were in it personally. Oh, and here's something for all you guys thinking you can win Last Post Wins 3.0; trust me, I'll be around a long while after the sun has already consumed the Earth while I sit out with the forum servers on Titan. Yes, I mean Titan... that comparatively little moon orbiting Saturn. It's a nice little place in a version of our solar system where the sun is a lot bigger. I mean, Mars will last longer than your precious Earth, but by then, it'll be one hot planet... and I figure Saturn's moon will be about the right temperate for a super-powered warlord. Oh, and trust me, I packed a lot of rings, and I mean a lot. Trillions, in fact, so I'll never run out of rings to power my super form. Besides, if I start to run out, I can just chaos control more rings into my reach. It's quite easy, really. You should try it. Granted, you'll never have the 7 Super Emeralds that I have in my possession, nor the Master Emerald that I've got hidden away somewhere... absorbed into my body thanks to Sonic logic, but whatever. I win. Again. I'm not kidding, either. Just check Last Post Wins, and if the last post isn't mine, it soon will be. Very, very soon. You can count on it. Seriously. By the way, if you're wondering, there's a really great Super Tails sprite sheet out there... somewhere... by some guy named shadow_91. These sprites are really great. Like, really good. Quality. Just like what I like to see in a sprite sheet. Also, credit to Joe T.E., his Sonic Battle style Super Sonic sprites have a great palette for a Super Sonic being beat up by Super Shadow, who's palette is from a Super Shadow sheet of unknown origin, but it turns out they were "borrowed" from a better sheet made by a certain Domenico. Oh, and the gif is actually a custom made super version of a similar gif, of which there are only 3 or 4 copies to be found by Google, and even then, evidently of an unknown source. Yep, it's one of those things. Stuff people have made, spread around, only for it to vanish and you to be the only person who still has a copy, not even knowing where it came from... like, literally at all. Oh, and anyone notice that Shadow's little chaos snap blast thingies are red and blue now? Yeah, I changed it. Problem, fans of purple? Yeah, I know you got a problem with that one, but you can just deal with it. After all, according to all known laws of aviation, there is no way a bee should be able to fly... alright, alright, I'll spare you the entire Bee Movie script, just Google it if you want. By the way, ever wonder how your characters would've ended up if they evolved in another universe? Yeah, that. Think about it. Ok, so you probably didn't bother reading up to here, but whatever, here's a surprise for you guys over at ESD (RP) who were crazy enough to read this: Emperor Nat of the mcfreakin' Terran Empire is gonna be right all along! The universe is gonna go BOOM! *Thumbs up to the insanity*
    Oh, now don't tell me you want in on all this! Well, ok. Look this that Egg Pawn hanging outside your window, pointing his laser rifle at you, waiting for my next order. He's doing his part. He helps conquer the weak-minded. He roboticizes the weak-bodied. Heck, he even helps keep the useless people from causing any trouble, but you know what? Join. Find the closest Nataran Empire roboticization center near you and join the ranks, before the ranks find you. Oh, I know, you figure it must be so satisfying to know I basically rule the world now, and you know what? It is, but do you want to know the true definition of satisfaction? Well, let me tell you a little story. One day, you see a brand new event. They're giving out boxes that give old event stuff. Your dilithium is plentiful. You buy a whole lot of Phoenix packs on your main, and open them all. You get one epic token. Then, you decide, that since you have all the Breen ships and don't give a damn about the others, you exchange it for an ultra rare, and grab yourself a Jem'Hadar Attack Ship and for the hell of it, a Voth Bulwark. You open both, leaving the Bulwark in your vast masses of starships as you jump into the bugship and deck it out, deck by deck, into the most awesome Jem'Hadar ship you can. You fly it. You enjoy it. Eventually, you get bored and leave, leaving the old Bulwark never flown... until later. Your main is long complete. Your new alt main, based off some character you pulled out of nothing just to explain away some starship being in service without the command of your dear admiral, is also complete. Mostly. Their reps and doffs are hard at work, getting you stuff. You realize the potential, and head back for your dear admiral, pull the most Voth themed build you can out of thin air, and suit up in your giant ship in the shape of you know what. You head out... and cause all sorts of havoc. Enemies scream out your name as their very life is drained away by your swarms of Aceton Assimilators. They complain to the devs of your OPness when you revive yourself from death every time you die. Do you show any form of mercy? No. After all, this isn't the United Federation of Planets, this is mother frakkin' Starfleet, where you explore strange new worlds and kick butt never kicked before. Oh, and you realize that I just wrote another speech rivaling your own signature. Cool. Oh, wait, that's just the original draft, it is part of my signature now. Oh, and yes, I am aware that I have become a Canadian Regent; one day, sooner than you'd expect, we'll suddenly decide to take over the world and declare an "alliance", and I shall become it's Regent. You know, like the Klingon-Cardassian Alliance in the mirror universe of our beloved Star Trek. Oh, who'll we be taking over with? I dunno, maybe [REDACTED], or maybe aliens from outer space. Guess you'll have to wait and find out, won't we? Until then, don't ask too many questions, or else my Breen allies on Titania might pick up on your -- [REDACTED BY BREEN CONFEDERACY FOR REASONS] Also, psst... keep an eye out for flying Tribbles! Also walls. Big, great walls, separating entire continents apart. Walls patrolled by Tribbles. Flying Tribbles. Flying Nukara Tribbles. Don't worry, it's not like they were on Venus with a herd of Tholians or anything, they just like the extreme heat and brutal weather like acid rain and hurricane force winds as the norm. Oh, and definitely keep your eye out on any two-tailed foxes, because if they ain't glowing, they're definitely an imposter. Possibly an Undine, we caught one of those once in my place once. Oh, and if you find a two-tailed fox that doesn't like the cold... most certainly ask him to say sorry. If he refuses, DESTROY HIM WITH A DOOMSDAY MACHINE, BECAUSE THERE'S NOTHING ELSE THAT WOULD BE ENOUGH AGAINST SUCH AN OVERPOWERED IMPOSTER!

    tr;dr, I am winning last post wins 3.0. Thank you for your time.
    Oh, look, an explosion...
  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,091 Bug Hunter
    admiralnat wrote: »
    artan42 wrote: »
    admiralnat wrote: »

    Yup. Not a single citation on the entire page supports the claim made in the oppening paragraph, not even stuff from Apocrypha. It's most likely the editor for confused and didn't realise TUC shows Starfleet has multiple Fleet Admirals and assumed it meant Admiral of the Fleet.

    Then why does every source I've found agree that he was the head of Starfleet?

    Why should I care? Unless it comes from the film it's not a primary source, it's a unsubstantiated rumour chain. Hell, I'd even accept secondary sources from the novelisation, comic adaption, or statement from the writers (it won't make it canon but it'll show that's the intent).​​
    22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

    #TASforSTO


    '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
    'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
    'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
    '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
    'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
    '...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek

    Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,668 Arc User
    edited August 2017
    By the way, since you mentioned it: who told us that Section 31 was part of Starfleet Intelligence? And who said it was their job to do the nasty for the Federation so the rest could be holier-than-thou? Was it, perhaps, Section 31? And you think, without independent corroboration, that a guy who lies for a living is telling the truth? :tongue:

    He may even believe it, but that doesn't make it the truth.
    "Two ways to view the world, so similar at times / Two ways to rule the world, to justify their crimes / By Kings and Queens young men are sent to die in war / Their propaganda speaks those words been heard before"
    — Sabaton, "A Lifetime of War"
    VZ9ASdg.png
  • baddmoonrizinbaddmoonrizin Member Posts: 5,710 Community Moderator
    How did this turn into a Section 31 thread??

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  • spiritbornspiritborn Member Posts: 1,447 Arc User
    The way I understood it is that Section 31 is an un-official organisation that uses a loophole in the federation charter to appear "official" but they have no oversight or official authority but thanks to that loophole no-one can openly confront them and I also suspect that those who'd try to close said loophole would meet with accidents.

    In essence Section 31 is pro-UFP terrorist organization that cannot be officially disbanded due a legal loophole but they aren't official agents of the UFP goverment either or at least they're not that because they're members of section 31 and just because some members of section 31 are members of Starfleet or civilian goverment of the Federation it doesn't mean section 31 is an official federation agency.
  • admiralnatadmiralnat Member Posts: 22,432 Arc User
    Been reviewing scenes from Star Trek Into Darkness so far, and come up with this:
    1. Pike was actually Admiral, not just Commodore. (The number of shoulder pips show 4-star admiral.)
    2. According to Marcus, Section 31 is a top-secret branch of Starfleet. Not Starfleet Intelligence specifically, just Starfleet, but yes, they are apparently a branch of Starfleet; in the Kelvin timeline, at least.
    3. When Marcus first shows up in the Vengeance, Kirk asks, and I quote, "why else would the head of Starfleet personally come to the edge of the neutral zone?", which is where they happened to be at the time. There's no doubt he's referring to Admiral Marcus.​​
    2jwMZnF.gif
    Winning.
    It's what I do. It's what I just did. It's what I'm about to do again. It's being undisputed emperor of an empire that cannot be disproved as the most powerful intergalactic empire in the entire universe; I always win, and everything I've won will definitely be won again... by me. It's my signature move, and thus, it's my signature. Problem, Sonic? Yeah, I mean you, Sonic, because you're being beat up, despite your being super. You can't even hit Shadow back, can you? Nope, he's too strong for you. Of course, I'm not Shadow, I'm the Super Emerald fueled fox that's pulling the strings; trust me, the fight would only be a few frames long if I were in it personally. Oh, and here's something for all you guys thinking you can win Last Post Wins 3.0; trust me, I'll be around a long while after the sun has already consumed the Earth while I sit out with the forum servers on Titan. Yes, I mean Titan... that comparatively little moon orbiting Saturn. It's a nice little place in a version of our solar system where the sun is a lot bigger. I mean, Mars will last longer than your precious Earth, but by then, it'll be one hot planet... and I figure Saturn's moon will be about the right temperate for a super-powered warlord. Oh, and trust me, I packed a lot of rings, and I mean a lot. Trillions, in fact, so I'll never run out of rings to power my super form. Besides, if I start to run out, I can just chaos control more rings into my reach. It's quite easy, really. You should try it. Granted, you'll never have the 7 Super Emeralds that I have in my possession, nor the Master Emerald that I've got hidden away somewhere... absorbed into my body thanks to Sonic logic, but whatever. I win. Again. I'm not kidding, either. Just check Last Post Wins, and if the last post isn't mine, it soon will be. Very, very soon. You can count on it. Seriously. By the way, if you're wondering, there's a really great Super Tails sprite sheet out there... somewhere... by some guy named shadow_91. These sprites are really great. Like, really good. Quality. Just like what I like to see in a sprite sheet. Also, credit to Joe T.E., his Sonic Battle style Super Sonic sprites have a great palette for a Super Sonic being beat up by Super Shadow, who's palette is from a Super Shadow sheet of unknown origin, but it turns out they were "borrowed" from a better sheet made by a certain Domenico. Oh, and the gif is actually a custom made super version of a similar gif, of which there are only 3 or 4 copies to be found by Google, and even then, evidently of an unknown source. Yep, it's one of those things. Stuff people have made, spread around, only for it to vanish and you to be the only person who still has a copy, not even knowing where it came from... like, literally at all. Oh, and anyone notice that Shadow's little chaos snap blast thingies are red and blue now? Yeah, I changed it. Problem, fans of purple? Yeah, I know you got a problem with that one, but you can just deal with it. After all, according to all known laws of aviation, there is no way a bee should be able to fly... alright, alright, I'll spare you the entire Bee Movie script, just Google it if you want. By the way, ever wonder how your characters would've ended up if they evolved in another universe? Yeah, that. Think about it. Ok, so you probably didn't bother reading up to here, but whatever, here's a surprise for you guys over at ESD (RP) who were crazy enough to read this: Emperor Nat of the mcfreakin' Terran Empire is gonna be right all along! The universe is gonna go BOOM! *Thumbs up to the insanity*
    Oh, now don't tell me you want in on all this! Well, ok. Look this that Egg Pawn hanging outside your window, pointing his laser rifle at you, waiting for my next order. He's doing his part. He helps conquer the weak-minded. He roboticizes the weak-bodied. Heck, he even helps keep the useless people from causing any trouble, but you know what? Join. Find the closest Nataran Empire roboticization center near you and join the ranks, before the ranks find you. Oh, I know, you figure it must be so satisfying to know I basically rule the world now, and you know what? It is, but do you want to know the true definition of satisfaction? Well, let me tell you a little story. One day, you see a brand new event. They're giving out boxes that give old event stuff. Your dilithium is plentiful. You buy a whole lot of Phoenix packs on your main, and open them all. You get one epic token. Then, you decide, that since you have all the Breen ships and don't give a damn about the others, you exchange it for an ultra rare, and grab yourself a Jem'Hadar Attack Ship and for the hell of it, a Voth Bulwark. You open both, leaving the Bulwark in your vast masses of starships as you jump into the bugship and deck it out, deck by deck, into the most awesome Jem'Hadar ship you can. You fly it. You enjoy it. Eventually, you get bored and leave, leaving the old Bulwark never flown... until later. Your main is long complete. Your new alt main, based off some character you pulled out of nothing just to explain away some starship being in service without the command of your dear admiral, is also complete. Mostly. Their reps and doffs are hard at work, getting you stuff. You realize the potential, and head back for your dear admiral, pull the most Voth themed build you can out of thin air, and suit up in your giant ship in the shape of you know what. You head out... and cause all sorts of havoc. Enemies scream out your name as their very life is drained away by your swarms of Aceton Assimilators. They complain to the devs of your OPness when you revive yourself from death every time you die. Do you show any form of mercy? No. After all, this isn't the United Federation of Planets, this is mother frakkin' Starfleet, where you explore strange new worlds and kick butt never kicked before. Oh, and you realize that I just wrote another speech rivaling your own signature. Cool. Oh, wait, that's just the original draft, it is part of my signature now. Oh, and yes, I am aware that I have become a Canadian Regent; one day, sooner than you'd expect, we'll suddenly decide to take over the world and declare an "alliance", and I shall become it's Regent. You know, like the Klingon-Cardassian Alliance in the mirror universe of our beloved Star Trek. Oh, who'll we be taking over with? I dunno, maybe [REDACTED], or maybe aliens from outer space. Guess you'll have to wait and find out, won't we? Until then, don't ask too many questions, or else my Breen allies on Titania might pick up on your -- [REDACTED BY BREEN CONFEDERACY FOR REASONS] Also, psst... keep an eye out for flying Tribbles! Also walls. Big, great walls, separating entire continents apart. Walls patrolled by Tribbles. Flying Tribbles. Flying Nukara Tribbles. Don't worry, it's not like they were on Venus with a herd of Tholians or anything, they just like the extreme heat and brutal weather like acid rain and hurricane force winds as the norm. Oh, and definitely keep your eye out on any two-tailed foxes, because if they ain't glowing, they're definitely an imposter. Possibly an Undine, we caught one of those once in my place once. Oh, and if you find a two-tailed fox that doesn't like the cold... most certainly ask him to say sorry. If he refuses, DESTROY HIM WITH A DOOMSDAY MACHINE, BECAUSE THERE'S NOTHING ELSE THAT WOULD BE ENOUGH AGAINST SUCH AN OVERPOWERED IMPOSTER!

    tr;dr, I am winning last post wins 3.0. Thank you for your time.
    Oh, look, an explosion...
  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,091 Bug Hunter
    admiralnat wrote: »
    Been reviewing scenes from Star Trek Into Darkness so far, and come up with this:
    1. Pike was actually Admiral, not just Commodore. (The number of shoulder pips show 4-star admiral.)
    2. According to Marcus, Section 31 is a top-secret branch of Starfleet. Not Starfleet Intelligence specifically, just Starfleet, but yes, they are apparently a branch of Starfleet; in the Kelvin timeline, at least.
    3. When Marcus first shows up in the Vengeance, Kirk asks, and I quote, "why else would the head of Starfleet personally come to the edge of the neutral zone?", which is where they happened to be at the time. There's no doubt he's referring to Admiral Marcus.

    Thank you. I don't have access to my copy else I would already have done that.

    I corrected saying Pike was a 1 star admiral (that's what a commodore is) but I only found a picture of him with two stars (RA), so he's an Adm then.

    I was combining Marcus's comment with Slone's who says it's part of SI. And if it is in the KT it is in the PT. Starfleet is older than the Kelvin (obviously) and thus predates the timeline change and no amount of time buggering will take what starswordc equates essentially to the KKK or EDL and decide to let them build a nuclear powered aircraft carrier in a USN dry dock.

    Hmm, well it dosn't get more of a primary source than that. Still I never got your point in the first place. I'd just assume Marcus was head of S31 (or maybe all of SI) first before being promoted to Commander Starfleet and considering the apparent shortage of Starfleet personnel thanks to 09 they never got around to appointing his successor at S31/SI.
    starswordc wrote: »
    By the way, since you mentioned it: who told us that Section 31 was part of Starfleet Intelligence? And who said it was their job to do the nasty for the Federation so the rest could be holier-than-thou? Was it, perhaps, Section 31? And you think, without independent corroboration, that a guy who lies for a living is telling the truth? :tongue:

    He may even believe it, but that doesn't make it the truth.

    Slone, Harris, and Marcus. True there's no independence of evidence in terms of statements, but, again, the supporting evidence backs them up. It's not difficult for Reed, Archer, Bashir, or Sisko to check the Starfleet Charter, it's impossible that Starfleet wouldn't notice hundreds of daily shuttles departing from Starbase 01 and heading towards Jupiter every day is it? Or the disappearance of a cloaked Federation holoship. Or all the Starfleet Medical personnel working on the genocide virus, none of them made sure they were actually working for the Federation when making it?
    spiritborn wrote: »
    The way I understood it is that Section 31 is an un-official organisation that uses a loophole in the federation charter to appear "official" but they have no oversight or official authority but thanks to that loophole no-one can openly confront them and I also suspect that those who'd try to close said loophole would meet with accidents.

    In essence Section 31 is pro-UFP terrorist organization that cannot be officially disbanded due a legal loophole but they aren't official agents of the UFP goverment either or at least they're not that because they're members of section 31 and just because some members of section 31 are members of Starfleet or civilian goverment of the Federation it doesn't mean section 31 is an official federation agency.

    That wouldn't work. It's either specifically mentioned in the charter and exists or isn't and dosn't. They're officially part of Starfleet and specifically Starfleet Intelligence. There's no loophole there, the Charter can be checked by anybody I'd imagine.

    @baddmoonrizin the original questions seem to have been answered and this follows on organically from some of the points raised. It's still related to the conversation due to context that would vanish if transferred. Plus, it won't last forever and saves kilobytes of forum space not opening a new thread.​​
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    '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
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