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M15: Guardian Fighter Class Changes

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  • theguiidotheguiido Posts: 467Member Arc User
    edited September 2018
    GF barely got any changes. I know others were in need of more of a rework, but since mod 10 it's just been left on the back burner, a half rework. Any idea on what we'll see coming for the class please?? @balanced#2849

    Can we please get some love for Protector and the numerous USELESS feats the class has?https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/comment/12984912
    Proteus
    Guardian Fighter
    TLO
    https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1221446/the-future-of-the-gf/p1 Existing Problems Still In The Guardian Fighter

    https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/comment/12984912m
    Feat Changes I'd like to see in The Guardian Fighter
  • cerberusforcescerberusforces Posts: 149Member Arc User
    edited September 2018
    3 weeks ago I stopped playing in nev, because I had enough to treating my GF like buff. All time in enclave i saw "Looking GF BUFF or GF TACT" etc. Not for it I played so much time and develop my statistics to play now like secondary buff. Buffs which gives GF (without ITF) they are unnoticeable. I know this char was very universal, and you can play like dps/buff and tank in one. BUT THIS IS A PROBLEM. If something is for everything, it is good for nothing. Probably not only I have a feeling it is unremarkable with huge stats and IL. You don't feel this progress and difference between high a low stats and IL. When i saw tittle Neverwinter: Class Balance, I thought "at last!". But what I saw in the GF tab it's a joke not a balance.
    I was hoping, that finally DEVS separate DPS, BUFF and TANK. And they will make it that everyone will be able to play as he wants and as he like. But after your "balance" nothing will change. Tact will still be weak secondary buff, protector still will be unnecessary and therefore unplayable.
    And one more after your "funny balance", all GF will need huge IL only for DPS org***sm when he was screaming in PE "Looking GF +16/17k IL".
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Posts: 3,981Member Arc User
    edited September 2018

    3 weeks ago I stopped playing in nev, because I had enough to treating my GF like buff. All time in enclave i saw "Looking GF BUFF or GF TACT" etc. Not for it I played so much time and develop my statistics to play now like secondary buff. Buffs which gives GF (without ITF) they are unnoticeable. I know this char was very universal, and you can play like dps/buff and tank in one. BUT THIS IS A PROBLEM. If something is for everything, it is good for nothing. Probably not only I have a feeling it is unremarkable with huge stats and IL. You don't feel this progress and difference between high a low stats and IL. When i saw tittle Neverwinter: Class Balance, I thought "at last!". But what I saw in the GF tab it's a joke not a balance.
    I was hoping, that finally DEVS separate DPS, BUFF and TANK. And they will make it that everyone will be able to play as he wants and as he like. But after your "balance" nothing will change. Tact will still be weak secondary buff, protector still will be unnecessary and therefore unplayable.
    And one more after your "funny balance", all GF will need huge IL only for DPS org***sm when he was screaming in PE "Looking GF +16/17k IL".

    Your only option is to run premades as Conqueror/tank, Devo Op and DC on top, to prevent from being invited as 5. wheel to a buffparty beside a prot OP. Agreed , some gear is needed to do so compared to an OP, that can run any content at low level gear 13k.
    Sadly 90% of all player in chat prefer other setups, that are partially worse, wich only indicate how bad the general knowledge about this game really is.
  • bojshabojsha Posts: 18Member Arc User
    edited September 2018
    @seveninchblade Well, I have no issue with Knights Challenge, for me its fine but I don't have high usage of it, I used it on T2 dungeon runs mostly and I don't play that a lot, for the most part am in Castle Ravenloft playing Tactician Paragon Feat Tree w/ Into the Fray, Enforced Threat, Valor or Commanders Strike. I don't enjoy playing but whatever gets job done. Anyways if you got something to add to the topic, you should do so and I can't mention stuff I don't use that often atm.
  • ltsmithnekoltsmithneko Posts: 1,532Member Arc User
    edited September 2018
    Since your class is still mines distant brother here. ^-^


    (Had Rjc Explain things that Michela tested. c: )
    Since it depends on the power these should be named in Marking descriptions.
    These should be placed in the GF's General Power Section, since so players actually know what the Mark does, and so it doesn't clutter up the multitude of Powers that Mark.
    Post edited by ltsmithneko on
  • klangeddinklangeddin Posts: 866Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    Can't add much more to the thread, most of what had to be said has been said:

    - GF as tank geopardized by OP being a better choice.
    - Protector tree is borderline useless, especially for high IL GFs.
    - Spec trees are not "separated enough".
    - Conqueror DPS at high end is cause for concern with certain setups.

    You want my 2 cents, rework Knight's Challenge to make it a tanking tool instead of a dps tool, for starters.
    Then a rework of the trees would be in order, I'm not gonna make a detailed post of the changes I'd like to see (which are not gonna happen anyway), just follow what has already been stated by others in this thread. For what counts, I agree with them.
  • mamalion1234mamalion1234 Posts: 3,141Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User

    Since your class is still mines distant brother here. ^-^
    This should be placed in the GF's General Power Section, since so players actually know what the Mark does, and so it doesn't clutter up the multitude of Powers that Mark.

    tab mark taunts also and build twice as much threat.
  • klangeddinklangeddin Posts: 866Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited September 2018

    Since your class is still mines distant brother here. ^-^
    This should be placed in the GF's General Power Section, since so players actually know what the Mark does, and so it doesn't clutter up the multitude of Powers that Mark.

    tab mark taunts also and build twice as much threat.
    all marks do, not just the tab one.
    This is what GWFs don't understand when they're told to not mark because it's a goddamn taunt, but I can't fault them entirely, it was Cryptic who screwed up with this design of giving two different classes (with different roles) the same mechanic...
  • ltsmithnekoltsmithneko Posts: 1,532Member Arc User
    edited September 2018
    > @klangeddin said:
    > Since your class is still mines distant brother here. ^-^
    > This should be placed in the GF's General Power Section, since so players actually know what the Mark does, and so it doesn't clutter up the multitude of Powers that Mark.
    >
    > tab mark taunts also and build twice as much threat.
    >
    > all marks do, not just the tab one.
    > This is what GWFs don't understand when they're told to not mark because it's a goddamn taunt, but I can't fault them entirely, it was Cryptic who screwed up with this design of giving two different classes (with different roles) the same mechanic...

    -w• Only reason a gwf would mark is when a GF isn't present, or azz at the task. Hence IV can be used for Threatening on ST, and SM Dating Shout can be used for AoE.
  • eion311eion311 Posts: 322Member Arc User
    I'd like the ancient out of date marking system where if a mob hits the GF the mark is removed to be gone. Let the marks from EF stay up!!
  • peregr1nusperegr1nus Posts: 153Member Arc User
    That Mark tooltip should feature it all if we want it do be precise, as in 8% debuff for allies, 20% for self on TAB and TR, ET equals.
    See in Michelas list: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1N8Y_AmqnnhOdaCT2Sg9e-OcC0m6q5nUJLfujZVsI1Z0/edit#gid=0
  • ltsmithnekoltsmithneko Posts: 1,532Member Arc User
    > @mamalion1234 said:
    > Since your class is still mines distant brother here. ^-^
    > This should be placed in the GF's General Power Section, since so players actually know what the Mark does, and so it doesn't clutter up the multitude of Powers that Mark.
    >
    > tab mark taunts also and build twice as much threat.

    Yes but that’s a mechanic in Combat Challenge for GF added with that use of that power, actual “mark” itself isn’t providing threat, just that class power.
  • ltsmithnekoltsmithneko Posts: 1,532Member Arc User
    > @peregr1nus said:
    > That Mark tooltip should feature it all if we want it do be precise, as in 8% debuff for allies, 20% for self on TAB and TR, ET equals.
    > See in Michelas list: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1N8Y_AmqnnhOdaCT2Sg9e-OcC0m6q5nUJLfujZVsI1Z0/edit#gid=0

    (Sorry Rjc explained it first cx Still good to know n’ reference.)
  • jade1280jade1280 Posts: 158Member Arc User
    Not going to address the clunkiness of the shield talents when blocking? because that is really the biggest thing keeping them behind on being a viable tank choice next to/besides the paladin.
  • cerberusforcescerberusforces Posts: 149Member Arc User
    Sometimes I go to the forum with the hope that I will read something interesting about GF changes. After a few days break, on all topics NeverwinterPreview - Feedback/General Discussion I see new threads either ongoing discussion. But only the topic of GF is dead. Some probably reconciled with fate, the others lost hope. It is a pity how poorly GF ends.
  • richardttu#3808 richardttu Posts: 3Member Arc User
    edited October 2018
    I really do not understand why the development team seems to dislike the GF class so much. This latest change in the name of “balance” shows that no one on the team actually plays a GF character, at least not very much. If any of you did so, you would already know that “Protector” path GFs have not been viable for end game for some time. No group wants to have a “tactician” for end game Dungeons (TONG, Ravenloft, etc.). instead, they all want OP’s. Don’t believe me, get a GF character and start posting “Looking for Group” for TONG and see how many chances you get. The fact that everyone prefers OP for end game dungeons means that the longed for “balance” not only exists, but it is already biased in favor of OP.



    Since the change in the Random queues, I have yet to finish FBI or TONG with a random group, since the item level requirements were dropped. I no longer even queue anymore since it is a waste of time. That leaves me with My DPS build, which I use for solo content, Guild support missions, and Barovian HE’s. Now you are limiting that. I am already left with months and months invested into a character nobody wants on their team at endgame, and now you are making it less enjoyable to play the only options left to me.

    It would be much easier for everyone, if you just made a script to convert all GF’s to OP, and then do away with GF as a class altogether. That way, you no longer need worry about “balance”.
    Post edited by richardttu#3808 on
  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Posts: 2,617Member Arc User

    would be nice to hear something from someone sometime..just some you know..

    talking between us GFs is awesome but frankly quite steril at the end..lots of ideas lots of passion but no power!

    it feels like GFs are a lost cause. :'(

    Maybe the GF tanking side is right where the devs want tanks to be at and soon OP will adjusted and fall inline with the GF tanks.

    As for GF as DPS, that seems like a high probability in the near future, mod 16 dare I say.
  • gripnir78gripnir78 Posts: 259Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    So far we know that developer responsible for all class reworks "@balanced" quit a job. So we can assume that there is literally no1 else left to make any adjustments. What is far more important @nitocris83 mentioned that he made more "reworks" and those gona be introduced in later mods. Well if thats the case we are at a brink of disaster here, not GFs only but entire game.

    So at least for now do not expect any changes. And - I know how is sounds - but lets be glad we are not nerfed even more.
  • checkmatein3checkmatein3 Posts: 525Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    I agree with gripnir. Irregardless of what tweaks or improvements and how much we might disagree on how to achieve it, if Cryptic is short on developers who can take feedback and implement QUALITY changes, I would rather have the current semi-useful GF, then a broken, bugged, untested GF that will plague the GF community for mods to come.
    LEVIATHAN--19.3k Metallic Dragonborn Guardian Fighter Swordmaster Loadouts

    Guild--And the Imaginary Friends




  • hawkeyelhawkeyel Posts: 356Member Arc User
    edited October 2018
    Just a couple things I would like to remind the Devs. that this class has that hasn't been updated in forever. Paragon Path" Iron Vanguard ". And the Paragon Feats" Protector ". If the plan is to really make this class more of a tank again then you must do something about those to ever have this class in a tank role on the newest end game runs. These are beyond out of date and the primary reason you find so many Swordmaster / Conqueror running about. Because that is the only real option we got left outside of the 5th wheel Tactician buffer and neither of them is looked at as main tank either. Good luck. If need be I can help you on a new resume before you start sending them out.
  • asterotgasterotg Posts: 1,693Member Arc User
    I just had a nice discussion with an OP player. When I told him, that I have to watch my rotation even at 17k+ IL he said 'well at the beginning of a fight, there is a small window if a few seconds, before I did generate my temp HP, when I can die...'.

    To add insult to injury, they have the better buffs. The only real reasons, to take a GF into a endgame group are convenience (ITFs runspeed and KV , so ppl can eat more dmg before they die) or bc the designated dps is a friend and you need another char, to fill this role.

    Besides some highly skilled and geared GFs in specific group environment, a similar geared dedicated dps can outperform a GFs dps.

    I dont complain, that we are not at the top of the food chain, regarding dps or buffs, but concerning our primary role, tank, there is no real discussion, who wins by spades, even at lower ILs. I would like to see some temp HP mechanics, maybe in the protector tree, just so we have a survive-ability similar to a OP. Buffs are another matter.
    Chars: CW, DC, GF, GWF, HR and TR.
  • cerberusforcescerberusforces Posts: 149Member Arc User
    No, I tested protector feat and skills. Feats they are useful for tank but only useful and you must still use the same skills like buff. GF is weak and uncomfortable for me. Im probably done my game, I'm logging for VIP keys. I don't hope to improve, it's time to look for another game.
  • ibz4ez#9773 ibz4ez Posts: 117Member Arc User
    Griffon's Wrath Encounter power is still broken after the fix.

    Problems with it include, but are not limited to:
    - Reduced range after 1st and 2nd hit
    - Ability to hit 4 swings of the power in certain circumstances
    - Occasionally the power goes on cooldown after 3 charges, but does not indicate the cooldown period, appears to still have charges left and repeatedly states: "Target is out of range" whenever the relevant key is pressed to activate the power.
    - The animation for this power is, quite frankly, the worst thing I've ever seen. It has never gone through all 3 charges without some mishap in timings of the animation causing the arm and sword to swing into the air and the damage happening sometime before or after that.
    - Occasionally spamming the relevant key to activate this power results in continual recasting of one of the charges. Resulting in what looks like the GF using the TAB Mark on their opponent. This makes the power generally more clunky and prone to lag-related bugs (in hitting 4 times).
    - Sometimes the power activates, the animation starts, the enemy is damaged at the appropriate time but no sound effect plays.

    This cannot be shipped with the live release it will significantly hamper solo content's fluidity and PvP's fast pace game-play.

  • hypervoreianhypervoreian Posts: 1,002Member Arc User
    edited October 2018


    GW stills can be used more than 3 times.Sometimes the fourth hit connects and produces damage,sometimes connect to target but no damage ,only the animation.

    GW encounter icon,when slotted ,does not show ICD,the remaining time to refill,nor the remaining charges.




    GW gets all the attention,but Conqueror feat tree has another encounter that can get a little love:Flourish.
    Flourish animation remains exceptionally long.A reduce in casting time would help a lot.

    Stunning Flourish feat,is providing a mere 5% more crit.Consider ,if possible a buff to it.Control is useless in pve and problematic in pvp.
    So an increase in damage 1/2/3/4/5% or in crit 2/4/6/8/10% or even somekind of debuff ,-1/2/3/4/5% damage of the t target produce, would be nice.

    Tanking of low to mid level GFs remain problematic,compared to direct competitor ,OP.

    Iron warrior encounter is a relic of the past,usefull in pre mod6 stat curve.Now it provides an extra 30% DR,but in current builds remains useless,since most GFs Defenders are capped in DR.
    Please,consider
    Iron Warrior : provides 30% extra separate Dr layer.

    I think these two changes would make conqs more versatile ,not GW users all the time ,and also will improve Gf tankiness.
  • bojshabojsha Posts: 18Member Arc User
    So dear dev's, let me get this
    GWF is classified as a DPS class in the game and GF is classified as a Tank class.
    * Why does the GWF get more temp HP then the GF class (measly 5% of max HP for the GF) when he is not the one tanking and taking damage? I'm not asking you to nerf the GWF but give GF's 15% of max HP as temp hp. Why 15% temp hp? It is not game braking and it makes perfect sence for class that is classified as a Tank.
    * Why has nothing been done to improve smoothness of animations when using all skills? Especialy at-wills, they are so clunky compared to every other class in the game?

    #wanttoenjoyplayinggf
  • bojshabojsha Posts: 18Member Arc User
    edited October 2018
    Ether I hope to a different class wich is gonna be pain in the "you know what" cos i would have to do all the campagains all over again and that sucks or i could lisen to a friend and change the game, go play with them 'cause as is, this is so downing, i have no will to play anymore. my class the GF is clunky.. uhhh... why am i even trying ..
    I play since 2013 and i never asked for anything up untill now
  • airlv14airlv14 Posts: 11Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited October 2018
    I'd like a better synergy of the TRAMPLE proc mechanics. For example the string of numbers from BATTLE TRAMPLE is awfully low to be useful. Can this be improved by scaling it to Defense or Deflect? Maybe a combination of the two? Right now so many GFs drop defense in favor of power and crit because tanking builds have little to no use in parties end game. Or how about letting BATTLE TRAMPLE add another layer of debuff that either drops defense another 5% applies an extension to the controlled status for party benefit?

    Another issue is TRAMPLE THE FALLEN, its effects are applied inconsistently. Controlled doesn't always apply the debuff, not from us at least. I'd like Enforced Threat be considered a control effect. Since it technically does control by keeping mobs on us. And what about mobs with control immunity, which were running into a lot now days. Can TRAMPLE THE FALLEN effects still be applied somehow to immune?

    Just some thoughts on how to bring back the Tank in tanking for GFs.
    Post edited by airlv14 on
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