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M15: Guardian Fighter Class Changes

Hey Guardian Fighters,

There aren’t a ton of changes for M15 but we have some quality of life fixes and a couple of minor adjustments to powers. Griffon’s wrath should now be highly encouraged to use all 3 charges in a row and no longer accidentally cast an additional 1-2 times. The other major fix is with Jagged Blades, it was applying the DoT to only the first target hit by powers and it would reset the DoT timer when re-applied. We reduced the damage on this because these two fixes are going to make it much better overall.

Baseline

  • Block: Now requires 10% of your stamina bar to activate (down from 20%)
  • Mark: This power should no longer be interrupted by other powers
  • Mark: This power should now cast slightly faster
  • Griffon's Wrath (Reworked): This power can be used up to 3 times before going on cooldown. If you haven't used the power in the last 16 seconds (affected by recharge speed) then the cooldown will automatically be refreshed.
  • Griffon's Wrath: Recharge time increased to 16 seconds (up from 12 / charge)
  • Griffon's Wrath: Fixed an issue where this power could be cast an additional 1-2 times
  • Steel Blitz (Revamped): Chance to proc reduced to 15% (down from 25%)
  • Steel Blitz: Damage reduced to 50% weapon damage (from 60%)
  • Steel Blitz: Damage no longer increases with each rank-up
  • Steel Blitz: Chance to proc now increases by 5% per rank
  • Steel Blitz: This power can now critically strike
  • Steel Blitz: Fixed an issue where some buffs weren't correctly affecting Steel Blitz

Feats

  • Jagged Blades (Revamped): Now deals 100/200/300/400/500% of your weapon damage over 10 seconds (down from 150/300/450/600/750%)
  • Jagged Blades: Fixed an issue where the DoT was only applied to the first target hit
  • Jagged Blades: Fixed an issue where the DoT timer would be reset when re-applied

«134

Comments

  • strathkinstrathkin Member Posts: 1,247 Arc User
    edited September 2018

    None of these changes are going to help the GF's position as the least desirable tank in the game. A GF simply doesn't bring anything to the table to compete with an OP's Aura of Courage ....

    Yea I admit it be NICE to see @balanced#2849 reconsider 'a little' extra done for those Guardian's who want to play the more TANK style feat path! I mean Guardian's in the past clearly did significantly more damage that Paladin's, but still I think your comment is very fair for Guardian TANK builds. Cause few if any used them not because they didn't want to but because they just didn't quite offer enough!

    Still most of the changes I've reviewed so far I've been mostly pleasantly surprised with. Having said that I think perhaps your comments above @kiraskytower is likely a very FAIR and reasonable ASK! Hopefully the DEV above can take that ONE piece of feedback to M.K. and maybe see about a few slight additional BUFF's to GF TANK builds in a future PREVIEW release before MOD 15 goes live for sure!

    Perhaps one advantage GF have, is the ability to hold their shield up being Immune, while they also attack & deflect at the same time, then can again switch to full attack or defensive abilities to aid them based on what encounters, dailies or at-wils they have prepared ready to use. Many GF Daily's abilities can also extend their Tanking abilities yet I still think your ASK is still a *very* fair & likely would be greatly supported by most Guardian Fighter's as being a reasonable ask to make!


    So let's HOPE they reconsider a few enhancements to the GF TANK Feat Path or Defender Builds. <3
  • wintermurlocwintermurloc Member Posts: 106 Arc User
    not much happening here , but with so many changes we've gone through .. no reason to see somethng drastic when other classes have been waiting in line forever. If anything can be done , pls look into the iron vanguard .. It's in need of improvement
  • peregr1nusperegr1nus Member Posts: 160 Arc User
    Jagged Blades are not properly affected by players critical chance. Any changes to this?

    Mark: This power should no longer be interrupted by other powers

    Will this resolve a glitch with Enforced Threat causing ghost marking?
  • checkmatein3checkmatein3 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 525 Arc User
    edited September 2018
    *shrugs* and *yawn*
    LEVIATHAN--19.3k Metallic Dragonborn Guardian Fighter Swordmaster Loadouts

    Guild--And the Imaginary Friends




  • sirfredricsirfredric Member Posts: 3 Arc User

    Hey Guardian Fighters,

    There aren’t a ton of changes for M15 but we have some quality of life fixes and a couple of minor adjustments to powers. Griffon’s wrath should now be highly encouraged to use all 3 charges in a row and no longer accidentally cast an additional 1-2 times. The other major fix is with Jagged Blades, it was applying the DoT to only the first target hit by powers and it would reset the DoT timer when re-applied. We reduced the damage on this because these two fixes are going to make it much better overall.

    Baseline

    • Block: Now requires 10% of your stamina bar to activate (down from 20%)
    • Mark: This power should no longer be interrupted by other powers
    • Mark: This power should now cast slightly faster
    • Griffon's Wrath (Reworked): This power can be used up to 3 times before going on cooldown. If you haven't used the power in the last 16 seconds (affected by recharge speed) then the cooldown will automatically be refreshed.
    • Griffon's Wrath: Recharge time increased to 16 seconds (up from 12 / charge)
    • Griffon's Wrath: Fixed an issue where this power could be cast an additional 1-2 times
    • Steel Blitz (Revamped): Chance to proc reduced to 15% (down from 25%)
    • Steel Blitz: Damage reduced to 50% weapon damage (from 60%)
    • Steel Blitz: Damage no longer increases with each rank-up
    • Steel Blitz: Chance to proc now increases by 5% per rank
    • Steel Blitz: This power can now critically strike
    • Steel Blitz: Fixed an issue where some buffs weren't correctly affecting Steel Blitz

    Feats

    • Jagged Blades (Revamped): Now deals 100/200/300/400/500% of your weapon damage over 10 seconds (down from 150/300/450/600/750%)
    • Jagged Blades: Fixed an issue where the DoT was only applied to the first target hit
    • Jagged Blades: Fixed an issue where the DoT timer would be reset when re-applied

    Hi!

    Could we get some information why theese changes are made? I understand the bug fixes, but why the nerfs?
    What are the purpose of them? As today GF tanks arent diserable in groups, so almost everyone makes a dps build instead, and now it get nerfed. Why arent there any changes to make GF as a tank more attractive in the game?
    Regards
    Fredric
  • cilginordekcilginordek Member Posts: 459 Arc User
    edited September 2018
    Griffon's Wrath: The charges of this power is not visible, nor is a cooldown after using just one or two charges. There's no way to know how long left before charges reset, or if they have reset at all, if you haven't used all of them. This will be an issue in group compositions where cooldowns are reduced by other classes powers and feats.

    As a result of above issue, there's actually no way to know for a new player that the charges reset even if you haven't used all of them. A charge counter or a cooldown counter after using 1 charge would solve that issue.
    Post edited by cilginordek on
  • juliofp70juliofp70 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 109 Arc User
    edited September 2018
    So, let me get this straight... Even after 6 or 7 mods (cause in mod 7 you decided to nerf ITF into the ground, CS, steel defense and many other things usefull to support GF almost killing it) you still think that tactician and protector dont need some love? I see to much love for OP's in this "class balance".... Also you still want to turn a tank class into a dps class? Does this even makes sense? GF dps will continue to 3x griffon bosses till they die, this change nothing.

    Really bad changes. Remove 3x griffons and put only one charge if you really want ballance. Also give some love to tactician and protector path. Inspiring leader giving 5% more to ITF? Must be at least 60% more to compete with OP's aura of courage + triple bane. Pls buff Inspiring leader or nerf aura of courage + banes.
    Post edited by juliofp70 on
    GF Your Personal Yeti - Strawberry Yakuza
  • cilginordekcilginordek Member Posts: 459 Arc User
    edited September 2018
    Griffon's Wrath: Interrupting this power to block still consumes the charge even though you don't deal any damage.

    If you need to block right before you commit to GW, you will have 2 charges available despite not using the power. You also won't know that's the case because there's no cooldown or charge indicator.

    Edit: Even when commiting 3 charges, one of it might not register perhaps due to lag, which might be related to issue reported by @peregr1nus
  • cilginordekcilginordek Member Posts: 459 Arc User
    General role of GF: Currently, people accept GF tanks because they can provide decent dps along with the damage. GF buffs are no match for OP buffs, but that is made up with the difference in damage. With OP getting a significant damage buff and GF getting a slight nerf, the damage difference is getting lost, and so is the reason for people to accept a GF instead of OP.
  • hypervoreianhypervoreian Member Posts: 1,036 Arc User
    edited September 2018
    Bug:
    If you press GW fast enough it consumes the first two charges ,then it goes into a blank icon.If you continue to press GW ,it can be used indefinetly with no cooldown.

    GW is getting more powerfull now,with a decent recovery a GW encounter goes to 8 secs.In these 8 secs you have 3 charges.
    i dont know if this WAI.


    If your intent is to nerf the GW combo damage,then you buff it instead.
    As concerning Steel Blitz changes,still it remains in the 2-7% damage percentage of a GFs outgoing damage.
    It cannot beet SWW or Steel Grace.

    As for Stamina/Block meachanism I failed to notice any difference ,but i did not tested long enough.(one ELOL solo ) so i might be wrong.Actually i think it goes down even faster now ,but i might be wrong.

    In general why to mess with the GW instead to straighten out and buff Flourish or /and Knee Breaker?
    GW needs a slight damage nerf or a longer cooldown.With current patch,it becomes way more powerfull
  • wizardlvl80#5963 wizardlvl80 Member Posts: 519 Arc User
    From what Mr. Foss said during the interview which can be found on YT - GF dps are going to be nerfed. I'm kind of sad we haven't got any changes of Tactician/Protector tree making them at least more comptetive with OP.

    At least give us the possibility to slot ITF under every encounter button. Maybe then we will be more useful.
  • rjc9000rjc9000 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,350 Arc User

    From what Mr. Foss said during the interview which can be found on YT - GF dps are going to be nerfed.

    Didn't Foss's interview with No Go also say CW would not be getting interviews?

    Because .... that was completely false. *looks at base damage increases + super buffed Disintegrate*

    Also, here we go again with another Module 10.


    Griffon's Wrath (Reworked): This power can be used up to 3 times before going on cooldown. If you haven't used the power in the last 16 seconds (affected by recharge speed) then the cooldown will automatically be refreshed.
    Griffon's Wrath: Recharge time increased to 16 seconds (up from 12 / charge)


  • gromovnipljesak#8234 gromovnipljesak Member Posts: 1,042 Arc User

    General role of GF: Currently, people accept GF tanks because they can provide decent dps along with the damage. GF buffs are no match for OP buffs, but that is made up with the difference in damage. With OP getting a significant damage buff and GF getting a slight nerf, the damage difference is getting lost, and so is the reason for people to accept a GF instead of OP.

    That doesn't justify Tacts not getting much better buffs than Conqs. That's why a scaling ITF should be brought back.
  • wizardlvl80#5963 wizardlvl80 Member Posts: 519 Arc User
    rjc9000 said:

    From what Mr. Foss said during the interview which can be found on YT - GF dps are going to be nerfed.

    Didn't Foss's interview with No Go also say CW would not be getting interviews?

    Because .... that was completely false. *looks at base damage increases + super buffed Disintegrate*

    Also, here we go again with another Module 10.


    Griffon's Wrath (Reworked): This power can be used up to 3 times before going on cooldown. If you haven't used the power in the last 16 seconds (affected by recharge speed) then the cooldown will automatically be refreshed.
    Griffon's Wrath: Recharge time increased to 16 seconds (up from 12 / charge)

    True. He also said class reworks will take place in m16 and hours after we got these news about every class reworks. Good point.

    Anyway, it looks like dps GF is wanted dead or alive and headhunting just started. I wonder if we get something in trade - like buffs for other paths.
  • hamsterhero99#6999 hamsterhero99 Member Posts: 23 Arc User
    edited September 2018
    So, OP will be even more immortal, while GF player will just quit due to lack of purpose. Great thinking.

    OP is broken from a while, having so much HP is just stupid and brakes the game, while GFs struggle with mediocre HP and lame buffs currently. DPS is decent, but with players being lame and only taking 1 DPS, Bane wins with all of these. GF tactician should have some more buffing utility (ITF based on DR was a stupid idea though, so not that much)

    Currently, GF can buff damage by 45% and DR by 50% pretty much constantly. A lot of people try to be cool and tank on conqueror for some odd reason. Tactician tank can easily tank ToNG without any healing or defensive buffs. But fails to buff damage of the "pro gamers" who have to finish the dungeon in 15 minutes or they will rage quit, hence OP is more desired.

    OP should get a nerf instead of tactician getting buffs I'd say.

    GW doesn't matter to me much, since I hardly ever use it (can't queue as DPS for randoms, so need to tank some) and groups with 1 DPS and 4 supports are just lame (yes, CR can be done with 3/1/1 setup), so avoided by me for now.

    Would be nice to get some damage debuffs for bosses in the 20%-25% numbers somewhere there (not as a capstone) and buff up ITF to give a bit more than 35% (something like 60% with tactician feats)
  • wintermurlocwintermurloc Member Posts: 106 Arc User
    I see no problems here with respect to what I offer as a guardian fighter. Yes some of us want that tanking potential as op's but I personally don't. I don't find getting killed as a gf tank a bad thing if you have necessarily done your basic aspect of covering aggro. If anything at all the problem with how tanking is handled with op's and how easy it is to do it, is an issue with that class not the gf. I give a rats <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> for op's and I don't care to give any feedback about it cause its not my class and ppl should realize that too. Paladin related stuff should be put in their thread and comparisons to them is irrelevant even if we are competing for that spot.
  • gromovnipljesak#8234 gromovnipljesak Member Posts: 1,042 Arc User

    So, OP will be even more immortal, while GF player will just quit due to lack of purpose. Great thinking.

    OP is broken from a while, having so much HP is just stupid and brakes the game, while GFs struggle with mediocre HP and lame buffs currently. DPS is decent, but with players being lame and only taking 1 DPS, Bane wins with all of these. GF tactician should have some more buffing utility (ITF based on DR was a stupid idea though, so not that much)

    Currently, GF can buff damage by 45% and DR by 50% pretty much constantly. A lot of people try to be cool and tank on conqueror for some odd reason. Tactician tank can easily tank ToNG without any healing or defensive buffs. But fails to buff damage of the "pro gamers" who have to finish the dungeon in 15 minutes or they will rage quit, hence OP is more desired.

    OP should get a nerf instead of tactician getting buffs I'd say.

    GW doesn't matter to me much, since I hardly ever use it (can't queue as DPS for randoms, so need to tank some) and groups with 1 DPS and 4 supports are just lame (yes, CR can be done with 3/1/1 setup), so avoided by me for now.

    Would be nice to get some damage debuffs for bosses in the 20%-25% numbers somewhere there (not as a capstone) and buff up ITF to give a bit more than 35% (something like 60% with tactician feats)

    >GF shouldnt get buffs
    >Calls for a buff at the end

    Anyways, a tact GF can, in the endgame put up much more debuffs than what you think. ITF + CS + CP is decent. Add mark to that which is 8% debuff, the fact that it gives CA...

    Still not enough to compete with Aura gifts, AoC and bane tho.
  • hamsterhero99#6999 hamsterhero99 Member Posts: 23 Arc User

    So, OP will be even more immortal, while GF player will just quit due to lack of purpose. Great thinking.

    OP is broken from a while, having so much HP is just stupid and brakes the game, while GFs struggle with mediocre HP and lame buffs currently. DPS is decent, but with players being lame and only taking 1 DPS, Bane wins with all of these. GF tactician should have some more buffing utility (ITF based on DR was a stupid idea though, so not that much)

    Currently, GF can buff damage by 45% and DR by 50% pretty much constantly. A lot of people try to be cool and tank on conqueror for some odd reason. Tactician tank can easily tank ToNG without any healing or defensive buffs. But fails to buff damage of the "pro gamers" who have to finish the dungeon in 15 minutes or they will rage quit, hence OP is more desired.

    OP should get a nerf instead of tactician getting buffs I'd say.

    GW doesn't matter to me much, since I hardly ever use it (can't queue as DPS for randoms, so need to tank some) and groups with 1 DPS and 4 supports are just lame (yes, CR can be done with 3/1/1 setup), so avoided by me for now.

    Would be nice to get some damage debuffs for bosses in the 20%-25% numbers somewhere there (not as a capstone) and buff up ITF to give a bit more than 35% (something like 60% with tactician feats)

    >GF shouldnt get buffs
    >Calls for a buff at the end

    Anyways, a tact GF can, in the endgame put up much more debuffs than what you think. ITF + CS + CP is decent. Add mark to that which is 8% debuff, the fact that it gives CA...

    Still not enough to compete with Aura gifts, AoC and bane tho.
    GF doesn't need buffs per se, but it would need them to compete with immortal OP, was my point :)

    Also, I said GFs are far better than people give them credit, just OP is much easier to play (you can just stand there and do nothing), and Moar Powah! aspect is there. If OP is getting a survivability buff <-yes, like it needs it. Then GF should get some buffs too, to compensate.
  • vordaynvordayn Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,283 Arc User
    edited September 2018
    strathkin said:

    None of these changes are going to help the GF's position as the least desirable tank in the game. A GF simply doesn't bring anything to the table to compete with an OP's Aura of Courage ....

    Yea I admit it be NICE to see @balanced#2849 reconsider 'a little' extra done for those Guardian's who want to play the more TANK style feat path! I mean Guardian's in the past clearly did significantly more damage that Paladin's, but still I think your comment is very fair for Guardian TANK builds. Cause few if any used them not because they didn't want to but because they just didn't quite offer enough!

    Still most of the changes I've reviewed so far I've been mostly pleasantly surprised with. Having said that I think perhaps your comments above @kiraskytower is likely a very FAIR and reasonable ASK! Hopefully the DEV above can take that ONE piece of feedback to M.K. and maybe see about a few slight additional BUFF's to GF TANK builds in a future PREVIEW release before MOD 15 goes live for sure!

    Perhaps one advantage GF have, is the ability to hold their shield up being Immune, while they also attack & deflect at the same time, then can again switch to full attack or defensive abilities to aid them based on what encounters, dailies or at-wils they have prepared ready to use. Many GF Daily's abilities can also extend their Tanking abilities yet I still think your ASK is still a *very* fair & likely would be greatly supported by most Guardian Fighter's as being a reasonable ask to make!


    So let's HOPE they reconsider a few enhancements to the GF TANK Feat Path or Defender Builds. <3 </p>
    A properly built and specced Guardian Fighter can tank perfectly fine. It is only because it is directly compared to the OP which has a number of things that a GF tank does not provide:
    • Aura of Courage: 20-25% damage boost for the entire party
    • Temp HP to withstand massive one shots
    • Power Sharing
    • Party-wide cooldown reduction
    The fact is, in a pre-made party, a DPS or tactician tank can provide more efficiency to a party, than just a GF tank. So I don't think it's necessarily more survivibility that a GF tank needs, it's probably more of a party buffing capability that is needed to function better than an OP in the current end-game meta.

    GFs have loadouts though - if there isn't a proper tank in the party, for example in RQ when the GF *is* the tank, then they can spec as their tank build. Problem is, not many GFs know this build, as there was a time when tanking wasn't really that needed, and the DPS GF was looked upon more favourably. Many GFs also do not have the correct enchantments or probably even equipment to tank as a pure tanker (I mean survivor's wraps for a tank? come on). If the team has an OP that can do what the GF does, but also provide party-buffing features, then they will of course look towards the OP to tank for them.

    I am not sure what exactly you want for the GF tank to be buffed to? To be able to deal more damage? To increase party damage? (I mean they already have Into The Fray) Or to increase the amount they block further, make them immune to control, and basically invulnerable?

    The GF can already spec into three categories of playstyles: tank, buffer and DPS. I am not sure what more you are recommending they do?
    Vordon CW        Vordayn DC        Axel Wolfric GWF        Logain SW        Gawyn GF        Galad OP        Aspen Darkfire HR        Min TR
  • cilginordekcilginordek Member Posts: 459 Arc User
    vordayn said:

    The GF can already spec into three categories of playstyles: tank, buffer and DPS. I am not sure what more you are recommending they do?

    I agree. I'd recommend not changing anything in mod 16 :#
  • cilginordekcilginordek Member Posts: 459 Arc User
    edited September 2018
    They seem keen on gimping the DPS though, so then I'd expect to match an OP in survivability and buffs, and buffs not just in terms of damage, but also survivability to the team. More options than just KV and ITF.

    Edit: Oh and I forgot to mention, ability to queue for any role is also something we don't have, nor ability to be a healer.

  • gripnir78gripnir78 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 374 Arc User
    Nice @checkmatein3

    But, your ideas are based on trade - dps in exchange for survival etc.
    Thats not the way devs think of GFs. There is only take away......
    Few more changes like that and we gona be good enaugh to hold shields only..... in Protector Enclave as honor guards....
  • adinosiiadinosii Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,294 Arc User
    My GF is only one of my secondary characters - I don't play him that much, but I am wondering....considering these changes, why would a new player want to play a GF instead of an OP? Anyone have a good argument for the GF ?
    Hoping for improvements...
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