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Official: M13 Scourge Warlock Changes

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  • schietindebuxschietindebux Posts: 4,273Member Arc User
    edited October 2017
    bellkazi said:


    If I run my GF he has this pretty feat called "Jagged Blades": When you critically strike a foe they begin bleeding. This bleed lasts 10 seconds and deals 150/300/450/600/750% of your weapon damage over its duration.
    Jagged Blades is a significant dps buff towards a critbuild, as far as I remember my GF with arround 60% crit never achieved higher ammounts like 15% overall dps by using that feature, maybe someone else runs a 100% GF-critbuild?
    The damage from Jagged Blades get´s buffed by ITF, mark etc. It benefits from buffs and debuffs from what I can tell and escalates the more buffs I add.

    Jagged Blades deal 75% of your weapon damage over hit. 11 hits. Do not stack.
    Critical Promise+Killing Curse=40% of your weapon damage. It benefits from buffs and debuffs. This is a good change.
    We will see how good.
    Btw. if I use crushing surge I can trigger that DOT on endless targets simultaneously, test yourself.
    One tick of that GF-DOt is near double the damage those two feats will deal if the fix is done, all in all it deals 17 times the damage those 2 feats will do.
    The fix might be ending in a 3-5% dps buff, sure has to be tested. If you play a warlock (do you?), you should know this will not be sufficient.

    Btw did you know, that Critical promise procs once out of a critical Hellish Rebuke? No, the following 9 ticks (80% from overall damage) from that DOT are not respected by that feat. Guess how often it procs from a critcal soulscorch... exactly 1 time the 6xDOT (80% from initial hit) doesn´t count. Damn we are a DOT class, this feat negates our main dps, ups.
    It procs once out of a multitarget crit from Arms of Hadar and twice out of a multitarget-crit from Firy Ball.
    WE will be left with that mess, and thats why I write it here like everone else does that actually plays the class. If they fix stuff like that, we can wait 4 more years for the next small fix.
    This is definitely no good change !!
    Post edited by schietindebux on
  • nirafelosnirafelos Posts: 113Member Arc User
    edited October 2017

    Dark Revelry had a couple of things wrong with the tooltip that made it very confusing.

    I have never seen anyone confused about Dark Revelry in the way that these tooltip modifications address (though I must admit that I was unaware that it couldn't be refreshed until it expired). Rather, what I have seen is people expecting Dark Revelry to either buff 20% of total (rather than base) power or to share 20% of the warlock's (base) power rather than be based on its target. As a base-power-only-buff, Dark Revelry is somewhere around a 4-6k power buff. I'm not going to go so far as to call that bad, but the OP's Aura Gifts, which is in the same position in the OP Feat tree, often shares 4-5x that amount, due to Tank OP's incredibly large base power pools and power sharing transferring via bondings being much more effective than increasing a companion's base power by 400.

    I'm also not discounting the movement speed increase, which is very difficult to gauge on any sort of effectiveness meter, but which is incredibly fun.

    Still, I firmly believe that Dark Revelry should function as a 20% power share or a 20% dmg increase, to bring it closer to the buffing capacity of other support classes. Remaining a 3rd tier feat may make it a mandatory pickup for all warlocks (like Aura Gifts is for all paladins), but there's room to push it later in the tree (because literally all feats past it until Soul Bonding are weaker than it).

    I'd also like to mention that Dark Revelry falls into the same weakness that plagues Temptation's healing, which is that it falls off when there's no target for us to hit. Since it has something very similar to 100% uptime today, and will have 100% uptime with these changes in combat, would you consider making it, also, an aura? This would change very little other than the first second of combat and out-of-combat movement speed -- but that movement speed would be a lovely quality of life change, particularly in the face of less-infinite stamina from Eldritch Momentum.

    For the 4th column of the tree, both of the Auras were a little weaker than we wanted them to be.

    These still look underwhelming to me. They're both basically taken right now because you have to take *something* to unlock Soul Bonding, and these changes largely won't change that, though I guess any improvement is an improvement.

    Cruelty is largely only relevant to the degree that it boosts Soul Bonding output, but also only then on small hits, because Temptation healing is so ludicrously potent already that when I hit with Killing Flames or Fiery Bolt I am healing my entire team for 3-4x our entire HP pools. In the face of this, the Aura portion of Aura of Cruelty is almost entirely irrelevant. During a dungeon run where I am paying attention and playing actively, the number of times a damaged player within aura range would have otherwise gone unhealed by my Soul Bonding will heal themselves due to Aura of Cruelty's 5% lifesteal boost is...maybe 1? But probably zero. The 10% severity is pretty irrelevant in that almost any hit that triggers lifesteal from almost any class, after maybe 11k, is a full heal regardless of LS severity.

    Aura of Despair is...better? But is still an incredibly weak debuff compared to anything an OP or DC can do. I assume it's so minimal because it's an Aura, rather than something that needs to be manually applied. This is "fair," but please consider that AoE trash generally already dies meaninglessly swiftly regardless of the size of these debuffs, that debuffs matter way more on boss fights, and that other players' single largest hesitations in bringing a Temptation healer is our inability to debuff enemies to anywhere approaching the same degree other support classes can. At a 5% debuff each direction, Aura of Despair is a 4th-tier feat 50% as potent as a summoned debuffing companion and 33% as effective as either an active rust monster or the valhalla set on a tank. On a single target, it's half as effective as one stack of Bane (1/6 as potent as a 3 stack of Bane), significantly worse than Smoulder from a Renegade CW (which is spreadable to infinite mobs trivially, so is effectively also an AoE debuff), and pales in comparison to basically any DC encounter power.

    I get that Auras are tuned to be weaker because they're always active and affect everything in range, and I get that they're also a "free bonus in addition to activated power effects" -- but Pillar of Power is basically our only power that has a notable buff/debuff component. Dreadtheft does as well, but is a substantial personal DPS loss to use.

    I think my most-preferred solution would be to, after changing Dark Revelry to be an aura and perhaps moving it to tier 4, combine and move these auras to tier 5 and have the feat add 10 or 20% dmg mitigation to Dark Revelry's Aura, and cause it to apply its inverted effects to all enemies in range -- so it would be a 20% dmg boost, 20% movement speed boost, and 20% incoming dmg reduction on allies, and a 20% dmg reduction, 20% movement speed reduction, and 20% dmg mitigation debuff on enemies.

    This would necessitate juggling the tree a bit to move Darkness or Eldritch Momentum up (or eliminate them), and adding at least one new feat someplace.

    After reading around on various forums, including our own, I've seen that a lot of people actually like Eldritch Momentum. (sic) Darkness now provides a bit more damage (for only the SW) when you damage an enemy, this is to provide a small damage boost for the spec as it is (rightfully) lacking in that field.

    I agree that there were probably situations in which infinite stamina from Eldritch Momentum was causing balance issues, but it was also incredibly fun when doing mindless stuff like Sharandar dailies, where it was substantially faster to not mount, and to instead Shadow Slip past packs of enemies endlessly to refill stamina and continue sprinting. I will miss that option.

    Its replacement is neither worth 5 feat points nor worth a Tier-5 feat position. 15% stamina is not enough for a single additional dodge for most classes. Instant party stamina "healing" is very likely to be wasted compared to a boost to stamina gain for a duration, and, generally, everyone already has Combat Advantage at all times almost regardless of party composition. With tanks, HRs, CWs, GWFs, and TRs already causing enemies to grant CA, adding another source of CA at this stage is... fine as a random added bonus, but it's not good enough to be the primary bonus.

    I also don't think Darkness is meaningful at all, as both Harrowstorm and BoVA are comparably weak. BoVA may have a place for Temptation PVP, and can be used if the Templock is serving as the party's Tank in T2 content (though it's not necessary. I can tank T2 content fine with PoP+FB+KF). While BoVA may make me tankier, it does such trivial damage (we're talking <10k dmg/tick) that slotting it constitutes such a large DPS loss that a 10% dmg boost against affected targets would not not result i a net DPS increase. As such, there is no PVE situation in which I'd use either this feat or BoVA.

    Situational and/or PVP-focused feats are totally good and fine, but I'm unaware of another tree where most players will actively avoid both Tier-5 feats when aiming for the capstone. This is already the case with min-maxed PVE Temptation builds, and these changes will cause more people to drop Eldritch Momentum and zero additional people to pick up Darkness.

    <blockquote class="UserQuote">

    Finally, Soul Bonding



    As an English/Communications major, tooltip fixes make me happier than they probably should.

    The WB buff makes our loadout choices more obvious, shifting our optimal AoE rotation from PoP+FB+(pick one: KF/AoH/WB/(low il?: DT/BoVA)) to a more clear PoP+FB+(pick one: KF/WB), and our optimal ST rotation from PoP+KF+(pick one: HG/FB/WB) to a more clear PoP+KF+WB, with a compromise PoP+FB+WB probably being very common.

    10% lifesteal lowers the il/guild lifesteal boon threshold at which Templocks should swap at least one of their class features to something other than PoH/DOB/SW. It does nothing for templocks who are already able to reach the ~40% LS threshold while using FoE+ACC. As noted above and by others, Temptation already outheals an OP or DC by an order of magnitude and no one cares.

    You could attach a debuff to enemies that were the target of a Soul Bonding-enabled hit, or a buff to allies who were healed by Soul Bonding -- but I realize that that may feel beyond the scope of a single capstone feat point. I also realize that, because *every* hit is Soul-Bonding-enabled, and "allies healed by Soul Bonding" is *all allies within range for so long as I have a target to hit* that these buffs/debuffs would need to be tuned appropriately.

    This is also a place where you could shore up our lack of out-of-combat-healing liability, which is deadly on things like Hati in FBI. Could be as easy as "Your Pillar of Power now heals allies within it for the same amount of damage it deals to enemies." Or, alternately, "Your Soul Bonding heals have a X% chance to purge negative effects from allies," which would reduce the likelihood of Hati jumping onto his cliff while a party member was affected by poison.

    I know this is a long post. Thanks for your time.
  • neverwinterdevilneverwinterdevil Posts: 74Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    i think it's too much bs having us used to being awesome dps and now you come and take it away... for what ? if you want to give us buffs then rework the damnation path not the whole damn class... last mod i was among the few remaining best sw's in pve and finally had a good build in pvp too and now i can't find my self anywhere... shame on you for destroying our class!!!
  • bratleyraybratleyray Posts: 296Member Arc User
    > @neverwinterdevil said:
    > i think it's too much bs having us used to being awesome dps and now you come and take it away... for what ? if you want to give us buffs then rework the damnation path not the whole damn class... last mod i was among the few remaining best sw's in pve and finally had a good build in pvp too and now i can't find my self anywhere... shame on you for destroying our class!!!

    "The whole damn class" as you put it, needs reworked. Not just the damnation path. However i agree with the rest of your post.
    HB Fury SW, DO DC, GF (Full Tank)



    [The Legendary Outlaws] (Guildhall 20)

  • naoqueroforumnaoqueroforum Posts: 225Member Arc User
    @balanced#2849 While at it, how about making murderous flame deal its 30% KF damage to every target in the area instead of dividing it equally between the targets. As it seems you are going for minor improvements, this is a minor aoe improvement, and something people won't even need to change their builds for. Could even make it 50% MF damage if it hits a single target. It still won't be IBS level damage, so it is not game breaking.
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Posts: 4,273Member Arc User
    edited October 2017
    IBS level :) 3 mods ago I run with prokiller and wicked Duck one mSVA, 32 mio hit, those days, not possible these days I guess.

    And here we get a pic of Tong today. Who finds critical promise? You will get a banana... 0,0012% damage

    https://imgur.com/ET8nHoA
  • eclipseblood#1326 eclipseblood Posts: 200Member Arc User
    > @balanced#2849 said:
    > Hey guys,
    >
    > To start off, I really want to re-iterate that this is not a rework, class re-balance, or major feature. The intent of these changes was just to give a small boost to some Scourge Warlock feats. There were a good amount of broken interactions that have been fixed during Rocktober. I haven't listed those fixes on this thread, but a couple of them are just a flat-out buff. (Such as Soul Scorch gaining an extra tick of damage) If people are interested, I can add those for visibility since they also have an impact on the SW class.
    >
    > While I'm willing to have an open discussion with you all, I can't promise any more immediate changes to Scourge Warlock, for the time being. As it stands, there probably won't be any more changes for M13. That said, I am reading every piece of feedback you have to give, every idea, and every suggestion. I've seen a lot of cool ideas in this thread and would love to see more. And trust me, even if you're writing a wall of text, I am reading every word!
    >
    > As for the changes below, these are a bit more significant and should help both Fury and Temptation. A large point of frustration that I was seeing across multiple threads was that Power of the Nine Hells was a must-have for almost every Hellbringer build. While the feat should still be useful in itself, this should make putting points into it more a choice. Just to be extra clear on this change, Pillar of Power will now grant 6% Damage and Damage Resistance to allies inside of it, +2% per rank. This should match what the 5/5 version of Power of the Nine Hells gave.
    >
    > Creeping Death going up to 75% is a pretty straight forward change. (And one that I hope most of you enjoy!) The change to Soul Bonding is also a pretty key change for Temptation. This is going to provide your group a large damage boost against targets you have cursed, with Warlock's Curse.
    >
    > Fury:
    > Creeping Death: Damage increased to 75% (up from 60%)
    >
    > Damnation:
    > Power of the Nine Hells: No longer grants 10/20/30/40/50% of Pillar of Power's buff amount to allies
    > Pillar of Power: Now grants 50% of its buff effect to allies standing in it.
    >
    > Temptation:
    > Soul Bonding: Allies now deal 20% increased damage to targets affected by your Warlock's Curse

    Wow ty for responding really does mean alot, idk about anyone else but i'd like to apologize for the way most of us responded, tr and sw seemed to always be a sensitive topic that devs tried to avoid. Hope to see more changes eventually for mod 13 hopefully and ty again
  • rjc9000rjc9000 Posts: 2,084Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User



    Temptation:
    Soul Bonding: Allies now deal 20% increased damage to targets affected by your Warlock's Curse

    Question/Clarification:

    Will this be a buff placed on targets similar to the GF's Combat Superiority?
    Or will it be a 20% debuff placed on targets similar to the Dancing Shield?

    If it's the former, then that's great!
    If it's the latter, it ends up being rather lackluster...

  • pyrosorcererpyrosorcerer Posts: 130Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    This is amazing! Thank you very much!
  • tom#6998 tom Posts: 781Member Arc User
    rjc9000 said:



    Temptation:
    Soul Bonding: Allies now deal 20% increased damage to targets affected by your Warlock's Curse

    Question/Clarification:

    Will this be a buff placed on targets similar to the GF's Combat Superiority?
    Or will it be a 20% debuff placed on targets similar to the Dancing Shield?

    If it's the former, then that's great!
    If it's the latter, it ends up being rather lackluster...
    if it works like it works for the sw then it should be a 20% dmg buff
  • merhunesdagon1merhunesdagon1 Posts: 146Member Arc User
    bellkazi said:


    If I run my GF he has this pretty feat called "Jagged Blades": When you critically strike a foe they begin bleeding. This bleed lasts 10 seconds and deals 150/300/450/600/750% of your weapon damage over its duration.
    Jagged Blades is a significant dps buff towards a critbuild, as far as I remember my GF with arround 60% crit never achieved higher ammounts like 15% overall dps by using that feature, maybe someone else runs a 100% GF-critbuild?
    The damage from Jagged Blades get´s buffed by ITF, mark etc. It benefits from buffs and debuffs from what I can tell and escalates the more buffs I add.

    Jagged Blades deal 75% of your weapon damage over hit. 11 hits. Do not stack.


    Critical Promise: The damage dealt from this power now scales with power/buffs
    Critical Promise: Damage reduced to 4/8/12/16/20% (down from 10/20/30/40/50%)
    Killing Curse: The damage dealt from this power now scales with power/buffs
    Killing Curse: Damage increased to 5/10/15/20/25% (up from 3/6/9/12/15%)

    Critical Promise+Killing Curse=45% of your weapon damage. It benefits from buffs and debuffs. This is a good change.
    This an insult imo, as we have not alot of wpn dmg. How about increase the weapon dmg to make this change useful.
  • nirafelosnirafelos Posts: 113Member Arc User

    Temptation:
    Soul Bonding: Allies now deal 20% increased damage to targets affected by your Warlock's Curse

    Hey thanks! These are wonderful changes.

    Can you please verify that this line item will work with Tyrannical Curse? I am not at all concerned about Tyrannical Curse increasing this bonus, only verifying that Tyrannical Curse won't block this bonus.
  • tom#6998 tom Posts: 781Member Arc User

    Hey guys,

    To start off, I really want to re-iterate that this is not a rework, class re-balance, or major feature. The intent of these changes was just to give a small boost to some Scourge Warlock feats. There were a good amount of broken interactions that have been fixed during Rocktober. I haven't listed those fixes on this thread, but a couple of them are just a flat-out buff. (Such as Soul Scorch gaining an extra tick of damage) If people are interested, I can add those for visibility since they also have an impact on the SW class.

    While I'm willing to have an open discussion with you all, I can't promise any more immediate changes to Scourge Warlock, for the time being. As it stands, there probably won't be any more changes for M13. That said, I am reading every piece of feedback you have to give, every idea, and every suggestion. I've seen a lot of cool ideas in this thread and would love to see more. And trust me, even if you're writing a wall of text, I am reading every word!

    As for the changes below, these are a bit more significant and should help both Fury and Temptation. A large point of frustration that I was seeing across multiple threads was that Power of the Nine Hells was a must-have for almost every Hellbringer build. While the feat should still be useful in itself, this should make putting points into it more a choice. Just to be extra clear on this change, Pillar of Power will now grant 6% Damage and Damage Resistance to allies inside of it, +2% per rank. This should match what the 5/5 version of Power of the Nine Hells gave.

    Creeping Death going up to 75% is a pretty straight forward change. (And one that I hope most of you enjoy!) The change to Soul Bonding is also a pretty key change for Temptation. This is going to provide your group a large damage boost against targets you have cursed, with Warlock's Curse.

    Fury:
    Creeping Death: Damage increased to 75% (up from 60%)

    Damnation:
    Power of the Nine Hells: No longer grants 10/20/30/40/50% of Pillar of Power's buff amount to allies
    Pillar of Power: Now grants 50% of its buff effect to allies standing in it.

    Temptation:
    Soul Bonding: Allies now deal 20% increased damage to targets affected by your Warlock's Curse

    thanks :) these changes are really welcome.

    It would be very cool if you could add that list of fixed stuff here if its not to much work.

    I think what most Warlocks think should be high on the list are the long cast times/animations. If you could squeeze that into mod 13 u would be my Hero <3, but i can understand if you dont have enough time left.

    greetings

    tom
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Posts: 4,273Member Arc User
    edited October 2017

    Hey guys,


    Fury:
    Creeping Death: Damage increased to 75% (up from 60%)

    Damnation:
    Power of the Nine Hells: No longer grants 10/20/30/40/50% of Pillar of Power's buff amount to allies
    Pillar of Power: Now grants 50% of its buff effect to allies standing in it.

    Temptation:
    Soul Bonding: Allies now deal 20% increased damage to targets affected by your Warlock's Curse

    Thx for those buffs. At least they might get that class back in range.
    75% Creeping death will be a better deal than the buffed weapondamage from Critical Promise, wich procs inconsistent and ignores our DOT-Damage. Creeping death procs far more consistent for critbuilds.

    WC and PoP will be from help to equalize the damageloss that tree provides towards a group but Temptation still misses mitigationbuffs.

    Be prepared for more
    Post edited by schietindebux on
  • jaime4312#3760 jaime4312 Posts: 844Member Arc User
    edited October 2017
    @balanced#2849

    The changes you suggested to Creeping Death and Soul bonding are step in the right direction and we thank you very much for that :)

    Edit: not sure if I'm understanding how much PoP will buff dps for SW and allies without Po9H o.O

    However, regarding Pillar of Power and Piwer of the Nine Hells, it comcerns me and here's why, based on @thefabricant testing a while ago, if you can check that out please do as if it's correct then what you inted for PoP and P9oH wiññ be a pretty severe nerf:

    As per Sharpedge's testing back in mod 10.5 or so

    Pillar of Power without Po9H:
    Dps boost:
    SW: 12%
    Group members: 12%
    Both lose buff instantly the moment they step out of PoP


    Pillar of Power with Po9H
    Dps boost:
    SW: 24%
    Group members: 18%
    Both can retain buff upon leaving PoP up to 5 seconds

    So, provided that that holds true on live, you can see that what you intend for PoP and Po9H could actually a pretty severe nerf, please can you check that out? Perhaps you can tweak PoP so, without Po9H it can buff for the values it does on the last example? Losing that 12% dps boost for the SW and 6% for allies would be very bad and in a way would kimd of cancel out tjhe buff you inted for Creeping Death :( :open_mouth:

    Just tested before posting this and Sharpedge's testing still does hold true on live so the change to PoP and Po9H is actually a 12% dps nerf :( Is there anything that can be done about it? If 12% is gonna get lost as a consequencen then it logically is better that either PoP buff without Po9H gives 24% dmg for SW and 18% for allies or that PoP and Po9H are left just as they are on live. Please consider that othetwise it will be a 12% permanent dps nerf that will cancel out the buff to Creeping Death and hit Hellbringer in general really badly :( Like, Creeping Death is given 15% more damage but 12% of personal dps is permanently lost with suggested changes to PoP and Po9H :(
    Post edited by jaime4312#3760 on
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Posts: 4,273Member Arc User
    edited October 2017
    bellkazi said:

    tom#6998 said:


    so u think that its ok if 2 feats of a dps class togethar are barely over half what 1 feat of a tank can give?

    Jagged Blades deal damage only once in a second.
    Critical Promise may deal 4 hits in a second.
    No it doesn´t, read the lines above. It procs once from an aoe effect like Arms of Hadar or PoP, it procs once from the initial hit of a DOT and misses 40% -80% of the overall damage those DOTs deal. By that it won´t be a flat buff for your dps.
    Atm it deals 0,0025% of my dps in Tong. CP misses a large chunk of overall dps because it doesn´t proc or only procs for a limitied ammount.
    If you want it behaves similar to Jagged Blades, you beat 5 mobs with one WMS and the Dot procs once (with 11 following ticks for the GF).
    Just imagine JB will be halved and the DOT will be taken away ... because it´s too much. And imagine the devs tell you they tend to split hat 40% again, 20% into Jagged Blades talent and 20% into maybe Cruel Cut Style ...no clue why.
    Every hit one proc for 40% weaponendamage. And now imagine the devs tell you in the name of balance, that this proc will be halved again because DOT classes can´t benefit same way you do. Now take into accound our damage is tied on following DOTS like Creeping Death (60% proc by cursed targets), since the feat will not proc from that Dot again, the devs have to tell you they need to cap that 20% down to 15% in the name of balance....
    Hope this helps to understand the topic.

    I ad this because it is pretty hard to get you to the point.
    Look at the proc-rate at 85% critrate , about 1:20, if creeping death (our main dps) is considered to be worth a proc.
    1 proc on every 20th damage-source, and it does not respect Dots and AoE
    ... and no BoVa is no setup for a dps spec if you do not want to gimp your party as a dps.
    https://i.imgur.com/ET8nHoA.png

    The proc rate of Jagged Blades is about 1:2 or 1:3 at 62% crit, if you extict passive procs and WE procs.
    https://i.imgur.com/GcuMH7V.png

    If you can´t understand this now, I guess you don´t want to.

    Post edited by schietindebux on
  • I like the way this is going. Good job @balanced#2849
  • jaime4312#3760 jaime4312 Posts: 844Member Arc User
    edited October 2017
    > @balanced#2849 said:
    > @balanced#2849
    >
    > The changes you suggested to Creeping Death and Soul bonding are step in the right direction and we thank you very much for that :)
    >
    > Edit: not sure if I'm understanding how much PoP will buff dps for SW and allies without Po9H o.O
    >
    > However, regarding Pillar of Power and Piwer of the Nine Hells, it comcerns me and here's why, based on @thefabricant testing a while ago, if you can check that out please do as if it's correct then what you inted for PoP and P9oH wiññ be a pretty severe nerf:
    >
    > As per Sharpedge's testing back in mod 10.5 or so
    >
    > Pillar of Power without Po9H:
    > Dps boost:
    > SW: 12%
    > Group members: 12%
    > Both lose buff instantly the moment they step out of PoP
    >
    >
    > Pillar of Power with Po9H
    > Dps boost:
    > SW: 24%
    > Group members: 18%
    > Both can retain buff upon leaving PoP up to 5 seconds
    >
    > So, provided that that holds true on live, you can see that what you intend for PoP and Po9H could actually a pretty severe nerf, please can you check that out? Perhaps you can tweak PoP so, without Po9H it can buff for the values it does on the last example? Losing that 12% dps boost for the SW and 6% for allies would be very bad and in a way would kimd of cancel out tjhe buff you inted for Creeping Death :( :open_mouth:
    >
    > Just tested before posting this and Sharpedge's testing still does hold true on live so the change to PoP and Po9H is actually a 12% dps nerf :( Is there anything that can be done about it? If 12% is gonna get lost as a consequencen then it logically is better that either PoP buff without Po9H gives 24% dmg for SW and 18% for allies or that PoP and Po9H are left just as they are on live. Please consider that othetwise it will be a 12% permanent dps nerf that will cancel out the buff to Creeping Death and hit Hellbringer in general really badly :( Like, Creeping Death is given 15% more damage but 12% of personal dps is permanently lost with suggested changes to PoP and Po9H :(
    >
    >
    > Okay so, you were partially correct with your analysis. Pillar of Power grants the SW 12% at rank 1, and 24% at rank 4 of the power. That should be the same whether or not you have points in Power of the Nine Hells. (I also checked this myself to be sure)
    >
    > The math on Pillar of Power buff, for allies, appeared to be wrong. (Or at least it didn't match the tooltip). It was granting 12% at rank 1 without any feat points spent. If you had 5/5 points in Power of the Nine Hells, it would add an additional 2% per rank of the power which ended up being an 18% boost at rank 4.
    >
    > My intention here was definitely not to nerf Pillar of Power - so thank you for pointing that out! I'll update the patch note, but it's effectively going to be "Pillar of Power now provides 75% of its buff value to allies in its circle." This should match exactly what it was before with 5/5 points in Power of the Nine Hells.

    @balanced#2849 Awesome! Such a fast correction and reply to let us know fury effectively (or really close to) is free from Power of the Nine Hells, no we can go full fury :) Thank you very much, sir! :) You are becoming the SW savior :) xD

    @thefabricant @michela123 your feedback and testing regarding PoP is one of the reasons (besides balanced's awesome help) SW is now taking steps towards greatness once again, thanks guys! :)

    @pyrosorcerer your idea, testing done by the aforementioned people, balanced's vital help and my feedback now made fury free from Po9H, it ended up well for our class hehe *puts on Makos mask* :) xD
  • balanced#2849 balanced Posts: 41 Member, Cryptic Developer Cryptic Developer



    Pillar of Power and Power of nine hells feat rework, = hellbringer templock become irrelevant build.
    Fury without ability to utilize it as debuff + dps + providing allies buffs within fights = Fury HB irrelevant build. (fury is not tank, stand in face with boss(master svardborg or t-rex is impossible)).
    As dmg wise Pillar of Power is not shining one, and due owlbear cub nerf its become almost nonsense.
    So fury tree become soulbinders only. (seems mod 10 rework where in wain... )


    Just wondering, why you not merge Power of nine hells feat in Pillar of Power encounter. ?

    That's pretty much exactly what I did! Power of the Nine Hells now only causes the buff applied by Pillar of Power to last an additional 1/2/3/4/5 seconds. Pillar of Power (by itself) now grants allies the exact same buff as 5/5 points in Power of the Nine Hells would now. Sorry if that was hard to understand through my previous post, it's kind of hard to put that change into words.
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