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Official Feedback Thread: Random Queues

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  • eldeskaleldeskal Posts: 214Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    Heh. I hadn't considered that all of the penalty cooldowns run in parallel. So if you think 5 minutes on each alt to do invoke and professions, you only need 6 chars to keep one 'active'
  • maxzius#3795 maxzius Posts: 66Member Arc User
    > @plasticbat said:
    > So a question for those people saying that you can get "as much" RAD from a leveling dungeon under RQ as you do now... in fact more.
    >
    > "Are those people who are allowed into ERQ allowed to do a random leveling dungeon for RAD as well as the epic random queue for RAD?"
    >
    > Because if the answer is "Yes... they are." it doesn't matter that you can get more than you do now, because the economy of earning RAD will shift. This means that in real terms it will go down for thoe who aren't able to earn from the ERQ.
    >
    > It's like how in real life a pay rise below the rate of inflation is actually a decrease in income. Politicians and people who don't understand economics will say things like, "Woohoo... you are better off! Stop moaning."
    >
    > Usually these are the people who got a pay rise ABOVE the rate of inflation and stand to benefit, so their condescension makes it even more annoying to the people hit by the problem.
    >
    >
    > "Are those people who are allowed into ERQ allowed to do a random leveling dungeon for RAD as well as the epic random queue for RAD?"
    >
    > Ths answer is no.
    >
    > You can get a 'fixed' big chunk of RAD from the very first RQ. If you run LRQ first, you won't get that from ERQ (or any dungeon RQ). If you run ERQ first, you won't get that from LRQ (or any dungeon RQ). You can continue to run dungeon RQ to get a little bit more AD but it does not matter which one (ERQ or LRQ) you want to run.
    >
    > e.g. If you run 1 LRQ first, you get 17K AD and then, you run ERQ, you won't get another 17K from ERQ.
    > If you run 1 ERQ first, you get 17K AD and then you run LRQ, you won't get another 17K from LRQ.
    > You won't get 34K by running both.


    While technically correct, you are leaving out every other Q.

    The answer to his question is yes, those of us who can get into every Q are getting a raise well above and beyond what everyone else is getting.

    Leveling dungeons vs EDungeons aside, new players and casual players without SKT and Cloaked Ascendancy completed can't get into the Skirmish Q because of the 10k IL on the new skirmish, they can't get into the Epic Trial Q because of MSVA and they can't get into the Hero Q. They miss out on all of that bonus AD that players who are past this new SKT money-grab wall will get.
  • mordekai#1901 mordekai Posts: 1,336Member Arc User
    asterdahl said:


    Some of you are certainly wondering about the total amount of bonus AD that may be earned. One of the goals I mentioned above was that we wished to provide additional bonuses to those who have mastered more difficult content. As such, the total amount of bonus AD that may be earned is going up! With the introduction of the new epic dungeon and epic trial category, the amount of total daily bonus rough AD that can be earned is increasing from 19500 to 28000.

    Here are the details:

    Rough AD per daily bonus run (before → after):

    • Skirmish 2250 → 6000
    • Dungeon 4500 → 7000
    • Epic Dungeon N/A → 5000
    • Epic Trial N/A → 5000
    • Hero’s Accord N/A → Jadeite (2,500 RP (25,000 by current live reckoning))
    • PvP 3000 → 5000
    Notes:
    • PvP is not part of the random queue system, but you can earn bonus AD from running a PvP match and the amount of matches that can be run for that bonus is being adjusted down to one bonus match per day, to be in line with other categories.
    • The nature of Hero’s Accord will be addressed further on in this post.
    • Please note that the bonus AD values displayed are slightly lower than what is displayed in game, because the repeatable reward of a few hundred AD is paid out even during the player’s first run, and the lump sum is displayed.
    For example, if you run 1 PvP match, 1 skirmish and 1 dungeon, in the old system you would net 9750 bonus AD, whereas you will now net 18000 bonus AD. In the new system, however, if you cannot run epic dungeons, epic trials or the special hero’s accord queue, you have reached your limit for daily bonus AD. In the old system, you could have run another PvP match, skirmish and dungeon to get to a total of 19500 bonus AD. Although you'll be earning 1500 less rough AD, the bonus seals you will also receive as part of random queues will more than make up for that value in salvage.

    However, if you can run an epic trial and epic dungeon you will get to 28000 bonus AD. If you can also complete hero’s accord, you’ll have earned a total daily bonus of 28000 bonus AD plus a jadeite, a refinement stone worth 2,500 RP (25,000 RP by current live reckoning.) Even if your character isn't endgame ready, you’ll be able to earn just as much rough AD per day, and in a much quicker time.

    To the answer of "no" to my previous question... unless this changed somewhere along the line, I'd like to draw attention to the last paragraph in the above statement from way back on page 1.

    If this has changed, then I apologise, but that looks to me like it says that if you can run both, you can do both, and earn RAD from both....
    I know the actual numbers have since changed, but the maths on that original extra 10'000 for being able to do an Epic Trial and Epic Dungeon looks to me like it could only be on top of the 18'000 (I know... the number has changed), from doing the basic dungeon and skirmish. (And PvP of course...)

    What am I misunderstanding?

    Also, I must have missed the bit about Everfrost Resistance.
    Do you need 28% to run ERQ?
    Cos I just bought SKT Campaign Completion on one of my alts for the boons, and didn't receive the Periapt as part of the package.

  • ladypeanut66ladypeanut66 Posts: 78Member Arc User
    Yes, you need the everfrost resistace for ERQ: you must qualify for each and every dungeon on the ERQ, which means you must qualify for FBI. To get the periapt, do the introductory quests of SKT (the coocoon quest should give it to you iirc).

    Also, if you can do ERQ, you absolutely can do Skirmish RQ (10k IL requirement, ERQ is 11k IL + FBI + MSP). And Leveling RQ is already opened.

    And about the enjoyment stuff from @hawk0828 : I find that doing the same thing ad-nauseaum can get boring pretty quickly, but introducing rewards extends the lifetime of that enjoyment. Certainly, if my enjoyment involves 0 rewards (not doing ERQ but choosing what I play manually - and I am not counting the lackluster rewards from the chests) I am not going to last long in the game. I guess if you are 'BiS' and don't need the AD to 'progress' (which means your build is mostly finished and you are comfortable with the DPS and tankiness of your char) you will be entertained for more time, but if you manually queue for AD, it's going to be rough.

    For the moment, my idea of what to do after mod12b lands, is doing the Leveling RQ with a premade of zerging 70's and be done with it. I don't think I will be able to even do Skirmish RQ because of the 0 motivation this is giving me. But we shall see :)
  • revy#5560 revy Posts: 3Member Arc User
    edited October 2017
    I've read through some (not all, that would be too much) pages of comments, and I dare to say that 45 pages of (mostly) negative comments should give you lots of feedback to consider. Some questions some users had have been answered as far as I know, but I haven't found an official statement on the point most of us users are concerned about. The way you, the devs, decide to take our main source of RADs away.

    When I first skimmed through the post I only saw "random queue" and "bonus AD", which I still think is a pretty neat idea. But when I discovered that this is, in fact, not a bonus but much more a total replacement I got quite angry and sad. (Maybe this confusion came out of the fact that I am no native english speaker, I don't know, but I think the word "bonus" is wrong here. To me, a bonus means you get something additionally, if you fulfill certain requirements. Not that you only get anything if you do.)
    Is this really necessary? To implement a new feature which we don't want and never wanted and then try to force us to use it by making it the "new main way" of farming RADs.
    asterdahl said:

    Goals of Random Queues

    Before I dive into some of the finer details some of you may be wondering about, I would first like to talk about why we are introducing random queues. Here are the goals we set out (not necessarily in order of importance):
    • Ensure all queues are firing in a reasonable time frame, regardless of popularity.
    • Reduce burnout from running the same queue ad nauseum by introducing variety.
    • Make it clear when you are eligible for and when you receive daily bonus AD and seals.
    • Provide further bonuses for those players who can master the most difficult content.
    • Incentivize playing roles that are currently underplayed to reduce queue wait times.
    • Incentivize helping players who are new to a queue to foster a positive environment.
    ^ If I sum this up correctly, you want the RQs to give us better gameplay, better experience. But this won't do the job. I mean, you can see how many of us do not want to be forced to join any random dungeon/skirmish/whatever in order to be able to buy stuff in the AH like they used to. This will not allow them to keep playing the way they do now.
    Of course I can't speak for anyone else, but I myself have already decided that I will never ever add myself to any random queue. I will try to keep at least a low level of AD income by salvaging, but as long as I get punished for playinng the way I want, I won't be spending a cent more fore Zen, and I hope that I won't be the only one with this decision. *drops mic*
  • ghostrings#8090 ghostrings Posts: 46Member Arc User
    edited October 2017
    .
    Post edited by ghostrings#8090 on
  • ghostrings#8090 ghostrings Posts: 46Member Arc User
    edited October 2017
    .
    Post edited by ghostrings#8090 on
  • plasticbatplasticbat Posts: 5,869Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited October 2017


    To the answer of "no" to my previous question... unless this changed somewhere along the line, I'd like to draw attention to the last paragraph in the above statement from way back on page 1.

    Page 13. Make sure you also read the 2nd section because with just first section, it can be confusing. The best is to read the whole thing. Yes, it is long.
    asterdahl said:

    Alrighty folks, thank you for waiting for this response, I'm going to take a moment to detail some forthcoming adjustments, then talk about how those should address a number of your concerns. (These will read like patch notes, but the changes have not yet been applied to preview.)

    Adjustments to Rewards

    • The amount of daily bonus AD granted by Random: Skirmish has been increased from 3000 to 6000.
    • The amount of repeatable bonus AD granted by Random: Skirmish has been increased from 400 to 600.
    • The amount of daily bonus AD granted by Random: Dungeon has been increased from 4000 to 7000.
    • The amount of repeatable bonus AD granted by Random: Dungeon has been increased from 600 to 900.
    • The amount of repeatable bonus AD granted by Random: Epic Dungeon has been increased from 800 to 900.
    • The amount of daily bonus AD granted by Random: Trial has been increased from 3000 to 5000.
    • The amount of repeatable bonus AD granted by Random: Trial has been increased from 500 to 600.
    • The daily and repeatable AD bonus rewards granted by Random: Hero's Accord has been removed.
      • In lieu of AD, the daily reward will award a jadeite while the repeatable reward will award a black pearl.
        • (A jadeite is worth 2,500 refinement points (25,000 by current live standards.)
        • A black pearl is worth 100 refinement points (1,000 by current live standards.)
        • These refinement stones replace a rough AD reward of 5000 and 800 respectively.

    Live AD Earn vs New Random Queue AD Earn (Non-Epic)

    On live currently, it is possible to earn a total of 15,500 rough AD from daily bonuses for running 2 skirmishes and 2 dungeons. With the above adjustments, it will be possible to earn 14,500 rough AD from daily bonuses for running 1 random skirmish and 1 dungeon. (Compared with the values in the original post, I am including the repeatable AD reward bonuses in these figures, as I believe leaving them off may have caused some confusion, as they are included in the total reward even on your first daily run.) I have also excluded PvP values here, as many of you have pointed out you have no interest in running PvP. Those values will remain as is in the original post. They were included as they represent the total bonus daily AD earn.

    All of this means that in roughly half the time you can earn 93.5% of the rough AD it was possible to earn prior to these changes. You only need to run 1 random dungeon (this means leveling dungeon, level 70 dungeons are part of the random epic dungeon queue) and 1 random skirmish. When you factor in salvage from the additional bonus seals that were not present in leveling dungeons or skirmishes before, the total rough AD earn has gone up vs. live even if you can only run these two random queues. Additionally, the time you must invest in running those daily queues has gone down.

    The only difference here is that you cannot specify which leveling dungeon or skirmish you will run in order to receive the bonus. However, you are absolutely free to manually select whichever skirmish you prefer to run for salvage after completing your daily bonus run.

    Epic Random Queues and Queuing for Epic Content Manually

    With the above adjustments, all of the epic random queues now represent a bonus on top of what is already available on live. The only minor restriction is that because the dungeon AD reward is now tied to the daily leveling dungeon random queue, if your desired farming is to run a specific epic dungeon for salvage, you may feel it's best to run a single leveling dungeon before you start for the bonus. This shouldn't be a seriously disruptive change.

    The most important thing I would like to clarify is that: you may absolutely still queue manually for any epic dungeon or trial you like. The random epic dungeon and trial queues are bonuses for those who have unlocked access to them. If you're working on getting up to that item level and have yet to unlock the higher dungeons, running an individual epic dungeon you're comfortable running should still be very rewarding for increasing your item level, even if there is no bonus AD. This is because, all other items will still drop, including refinement items as well as seals of the protector which can be used to purchase very powerful equipment.

    I have noticed some concerns that these bonuses will "help players with a higher item level pull even farther ahead." Keep in mind advancing your item level is a non-linear endeavor. Getting the last few thousand item levels of 'best-in-slot' is much harder than getting to 11k total item level. With module 12 it has become much easier to get higher item level equipment, and with 12B we will be reducing the refinement needed to get to rank 12 (and subsequently, lower ranks as well.)

    This sort of positive feedback loop is essential to progression feeling rewarded. In a casual match based game like Mario Kart with no long term progression, you want to ensure a negative feedback loop is present so each race can feel close regardless of skill level. With long term progression, you will want to feel rewarded for the time and hard work you've put in. We want players who can do the hardest content to be rewarded proportionally for it.

  • ghostrings#8090 ghostrings Posts: 46Member Arc User
    edited October 2017
    .
  • plasticbatplasticbat Posts: 5,869Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited October 2017

    Make Greed of the Dragonflight great again. Most of the Dragonflight Armor can be replace by buying League's Armor for AD or just fishing for and trading for currency and buying Pioneer Armor. What's the point of running Dragonflight when the gear is no longer an option of something we should wear.

    This thread is about RQ. There are different threads for different objectives (e.g. RQ, PVP, bonding runestone, refinement, bug fix). Your suggestions have absolutely nothing to do with random queue.
  • ghostrings#8090 ghostrings Posts: 46Member Arc User

    This thread is about RQ. There are different threads for different objectives (e.g. RQ, PVP, bonding runestone, refinement, bug fix). Your suggestions have absolutely nothing to do with random queue.

    Sorry I thought I was on a different thread and somehow was redirected to this one
  • mordekai#1901 mordekai Posts: 1,336Member Arc User


    To the answer of "no" to my previous question... unless this changed somewhere along the line, I'd like to draw attention to the last paragraph in the above statement from way back on page 1.

    Page 13. Make sure you also read the 2nd section because with just first section, it can be confusing. The best is to read the whole thing. Yes, it is long.
    asterdahl said:

    Alrighty folks, thank you for waiting for this response, I'm going to take a moment to detail some forthcoming adjustments, then talk about how those should address a number of your concerns. (These will read like patch notes, but the changes have not yet been applied to preview.)

    Adjustments to Rewards

    • The amount of daily bonus AD granted by Random: Skirmish has been increased from 3000 to 6000.
    • The amount of repeatable bonus AD granted by Random: Skirmish has been increased from 400 to 600.
    • The amount of daily bonus AD granted by Random: Dungeon has been increased from 4000 to 7000.
    • The amount of repeatable bonus AD granted by Random: Dungeon has been increased from 600 to 900.
    • The amount of repeatable bonus AD granted by Random: Epic Dungeon has been increased from 800 to 900.
    • The amount of daily bonus AD granted by Random: Trial has been increased from 3000 to 5000.
    • The amount of repeatable bonus AD granted by Random: Trial has been increased from 500 to 600.
    • The daily and repeatable AD bonus rewards granted by Random: Hero's Accord has been removed.
      • In lieu of AD, the daily reward will award a jadeite while the repeatable reward will award a black pearl.
        • (A jadeite is worth 2,500 refinement points (25,000 by current live standards.)
        • A black pearl is worth 100 refinement points (1,000 by current live standards.)
        • These refinement stones replace a rough AD reward of 5000 and 800 respectively.

    Live AD Earn vs New Random Queue AD Earn (Non-Epic)

    On live currently, it is possible to earn a total of 15,500 rough AD from daily bonuses for running 2 skirmishes and 2 dungeons. With the above adjustments, it will be possible to earn 14,500 rough AD from daily bonuses for running 1 random skirmish and 1 dungeon. (Compared with the values in the original post, I am including the repeatable AD reward bonuses in these figures, as I believe leaving them off may have caused some confusion, as they are included in the total reward even on your first daily run.) I have also excluded PvP values here, as many of you have pointed out you have no interest in running PvP. Those values will remain as is in the original post. They were included as they represent the total bonus daily AD earn.

    All of this means that in roughly half the time you can earn 93.5% of the rough AD it was possible to earn prior to these changes. You only need to run 1 random dungeon (this means leveling dungeon, level 70 dungeons are part of the random epic dungeon queue) and 1 random skirmish. When you factor in salvage from the additional bonus seals that were not present in leveling dungeons or skirmishes before, the total rough AD earn has gone up vs. live even if you can only run these two random queues. Additionally, the time you must invest in running those daily queues has gone down.

    The only difference here is that you cannot specify which leveling dungeon or skirmish you will run in order to receive the bonus. However, you are absolutely free to manually select whichever skirmish you prefer to run for salvage after completing your daily bonus run.

    Epic Random Queues and Queuing for Epic Content Manually

    With the above adjustments, all of the epic random queues now represent a bonus on top of what is already available on live. The only minor restriction is that because the dungeon AD reward is now tied to the daily leveling dungeon random queue, if your desired farming is to run a specific epic dungeon for salvage, you may feel it's best to run a single leveling dungeon before you start for the bonus. This shouldn't be a seriously disruptive change.

    The most important thing I would like to clarify is that: you may absolutely still queue manually for any epic dungeon or trial you like. The random epic dungeon and trial queues are bonuses for those who have unlocked access to them. If you're working on getting up to that item level and have yet to unlock the higher dungeons, running an individual epic dungeon you're comfortable running should still be very rewarding for increasing your item level, even if there is no bonus AD. This is because, all other items will still drop, including refinement items as well as seals of the protector which can be used to purchase very powerful equipment.

    I have noticed some concerns that these bonuses will "help players with a higher item level pull even farther ahead." Keep in mind advancing your item level is a non-linear endeavor. Getting the last few thousand item levels of 'best-in-slot' is much harder than getting to 11k total item level. With module 12 it has become much easier to get higher item level equipment, and with 12B we will be reducing the refinement needed to get to rank 12 (and subsequently, lower ranks as well.)

    This sort of positive feedback loop is essential to progression feeling rewarded. In a casual match based game like Mario Kart with no long term progression, you want to ensure a negative feedback loop is present so each race can feel close regardless of skill level. With long term progression, you will want to feel rewarded for the time and hard work you've put in. We want players who can do the hardest content to be rewarded proportionally for it.

    Cheers, that makes it a lot clearer.
    I think it would be a good idea for someone to update the front page with the current status of the proposals, because trawling through the previous 40 odd pages for the most up to date status on any single part of the proposal means its very hard to keep track.
  • mordekai#1901 mordekai Posts: 1,336Member Arc User

    Yes, you need the everfrost resistace for ERQ: you must qualify for each and every dungeon on the ERQ, which means you must qualify for FBI. To get the periapt, do the introductory quests of SKT (the coocoon quest should give it to you iirc).

    ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

    So... what you're telling me is, that buying a Campaign Completion pack so that I don't have to set foot in that migraine inducing, brain numbing stool of a campaign zone, doesn't give me what I need to actually use the stuff I unlock?
    I HAVE to go into it and play the bloody thing anyway?
    That stupid opening cut scene alone makes me want to put my boot through the TV, but I've GOT to do it???
    Wow...

    I shall go and vent in the appropriate place...

    Thanks for explaining.
  • agilestoagilesto Posts: 445Member Arc User
    To be fair you don't NEED the periapt to get enough everfrost resistance on your character.
    Relic armor, reinforcement kits, potions get you more than enough resistance to qualify for FBI.
  • plasticbatplasticbat Posts: 5,869Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User


    To the answer of "no" to my previous question... unless this changed somewhere along the line, I'd like to draw attention to the last paragraph in the above statement from way back on page 1.

    Page 13. Make sure you also read the 2nd section because with just first section, it can be confusing. The best is to read the whole thing. Yes, it is long.
    asterdahl said:

    Alrighty folks, thank you for waiting for this response, I'm going to take a moment to detail some forthcoming adjustments, then talk about how those should address a number of your concerns. (These will read like patch notes, but the changes have not yet been applied to preview.)

    Adjustments to Rewards

    • The amount of daily bonus AD granted by Random: Skirmish has been increased from 3000 to 6000.
    • The amount of repeatable bonus AD granted by Random: Skirmish has been increased from 400 to 600.
    • The amount of daily bonus AD granted by Random: Dungeon has been increased from 4000 to 7000.
    • The amount of repeatable bonus AD granted by Random: Dungeon has been increased from 600 to 900.
    • The amount of repeatable bonus AD granted by Random: Epic Dungeon has been increased from 800 to 900.
    • The amount of daily bonus AD granted by Random: Trial has been increased from 3000 to 5000.
    • The amount of repeatable bonus AD granted by Random: Trial has been increased from 500 to 600.
    • The daily and repeatable AD bonus rewards granted by Random: Hero's Accord has been removed.
      • In lieu of AD, the daily reward will award a jadeite while the repeatable reward will award a black pearl.
        • (A jadeite is worth 2,500 refinement points (25,000 by current live standards.)
        • A black pearl is worth 100 refinement points (1,000 by current live standards.)
        • These refinement stones replace a rough AD reward of 5000 and 800 respectively.

    Live AD Earn vs New Random Queue AD Earn (Non-Epic)

    On live currently, it is possible to earn a total of 15,500 rough AD from daily bonuses for running 2 skirmishes and 2 dungeons. With the above adjustments, it will be possible to earn 14,500 rough AD from daily bonuses for running 1 random skirmish and 1 dungeon. (Compared with the values in the original post, I am including the repeatable AD reward bonuses in these figures, as I believe leaving them off may have caused some confusion, as they are included in the total reward even on your first daily run.) I have also excluded PvP values here, as many of you have pointed out you have no interest in running PvP. Those values will remain as is in the original post. They were included as they represent the total bonus daily AD earn.

    All of this means that in roughly half the time you can earn 93.5% of the rough AD it was possible to earn prior to these changes. You only need to run 1 random dungeon (this means leveling dungeon, level 70 dungeons are part of the random epic dungeon queue) and 1 random skirmish. When you factor in salvage from the additional bonus seals that were not present in leveling dungeons or skirmishes before, the total rough AD earn has gone up vs. live even if you can only run these two random queues. Additionally, the time you must invest in running those daily queues has gone down.

    The only difference here is that you cannot specify which leveling dungeon or skirmish you will run in order to receive the bonus. However, you are absolutely free to manually select whichever skirmish you prefer to run for salvage after completing your daily bonus run.

    Epic Random Queues and Queuing for Epic Content Manually

    With the above adjustments, all of the epic random queues now represent a bonus on top of what is already available on live. The only minor restriction is that because the dungeon AD reward is now tied to the daily leveling dungeon random queue, if your desired farming is to run a specific epic dungeon for salvage, you may feel it's best to run a single leveling dungeon before you start for the bonus. This shouldn't be a seriously disruptive change.

    The most important thing I would like to clarify is that: you may absolutely still queue manually for any epic dungeon or trial you like. The random epic dungeon and trial queues are bonuses for those who have unlocked access to them. If you're working on getting up to that item level and have yet to unlock the higher dungeons, running an individual epic dungeon you're comfortable running should still be very rewarding for increasing your item level, even if there is no bonus AD. This is because, all other items will still drop, including refinement items as well as seals of the protector which can be used to purchase very powerful equipment.

    I have noticed some concerns that these bonuses will "help players with a higher item level pull even farther ahead." Keep in mind advancing your item level is a non-linear endeavor. Getting the last few thousand item levels of 'best-in-slot' is much harder than getting to 11k total item level. With module 12 it has become much easier to get higher item level equipment, and with 12B we will be reducing the refinement needed to get to rank 12 (and subsequently, lower ranks as well.)

    This sort of positive feedback loop is essential to progression feeling rewarded. In a casual match based game like Mario Kart with no long term progression, you want to ensure a negative feedback loop is present so each race can feel close regardless of skill level. With long term progression, you will want to feel rewarded for the time and hard work you've put in. We want players who can do the hardest content to be rewarded proportionally for it.

    Cheers, that makes it a lot clearer.
    I think it would be a good idea for someone to update the front page with the current status of the proposals, because trawling through the previous 40 odd pages for the most up to date status on any single part of the proposal means its very hard to keep track.
    I suggested the same thing in page 19. Dev did do something on page 1 for that request but IMO, it is still not enough or clear. There are much more from dev after that. Since it will be live tomorrow, I assume this will soon continue in regular forum.
  • diloul#3484 diloul Posts: 49Member Arc User
    edited October 2017
    The way i see it.
    I don't have alts, i have a main dps and a main dc so for me, no problem.
    My 3rd character is a tank that i use only for events( such as winter fest, ect) or storage.

    For people who farm ad on multiples alts, this will not work.

    I think once again it's based on good intentions but as always with cryptic the counterpart is always so bad that the good intention is destroyed in the process...

    You should really adjust ilvl for dunjeons.
    Too many players have the gs to run a dunjeon but in fact are pretty useless ingame.

    I have a lvl70 9k tank, i did zero quest, zero campaign boons. I just gave him gear and our guild boons do the rest...
  • ladypeanut66ladypeanut66 Posts: 78Member Arc User
    edited October 2017

    Yes, you need the everfrost resistace for ERQ: you must qualify for each and every dungeon on the ERQ, which means you must qualify for FBI. To get the periapt, do the introductory quests of SKT (the coocoon quest should give it to you iirc).

    ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

    So... what you're telling me is, that buying a Campaign Completion pack so that I don't have to set foot in that migraine inducing, brain numbing stool of a campaign zone, doesn't give me what I need to actually use the stuff I unlock?
    I HAVE to go into it and play the bloody thing anyway?
    That stupid opening cut scene alone makes me want to put my boot through the TV, but I've GOT to do it???
    Wow...

    I shall go and vent in the appropriate place...

    Thanks for explaining.
    It is just the introductory quests for Bryn Shander, but yeah... It sucks.
  • plasticbatplasticbat Posts: 5,869Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited October 2017

    The way i see it.

    I don't have alts, i have a main dps and a main dc so for me, no problem.

    My 3rd character is a tank that i use only for events( such as winter fest, ect) or storage.



    For people who farm ad on multiples alts, this will not work.



    I think once again it's based on good intentions but as always with cryptic the counterpart is always so bad that the good intention is destroyed in the process...



    You should really adjust ilvl for dunjeons.

    Too many players have the gs to run a dunjeon but in fact are pretty useless ingame.



    I have a lvl70 9k tank, i did zero quest, zero campaign boons. I just gave him gear and our guild boons do the rest...

    Actually, for the people who farm AD on multiple L70 alts with low gear, it will work better for them than now.
    Right now, these low gear can go to cloak tower twice per day. These character is so low gear and they can't do any epic dungeon.
    In mod 12b, these alt can do LRQ once per day to get more or less the same amount of AD as now.
    In addition, these LRQ will be fired up more because many who can do T1 Epic dungeon cannot do ERQ.
    Many significantly over gear will be forced to do LRQ to earn AD. Bad for them but good for low gear alt.
    A naked L70 (or even L60) will be able to 'follow' 2 minimum gear L70 to complete LRQ.
  • mordekai#1901 mordekai Posts: 1,336Member Arc User
    agilesto said:

    To be fair you don't NEED the periapt to get enough everfrost resistance on your character.
    Relic armor, reinforcement kits, potions get you more than enough resistance to qualify for FBI.

    Cool.
    How does one restore the Relic Armour without visiting the SKT campaign zone?
    If I can do that easily after shelling out for the Campaign Completion Pack. I'll happily go that route.

    Just so long as I don't have to play any of SKT. That being the entire point of buying the campaign completion...
  • agilestoagilesto Posts: 445Member Arc User

    agilesto said:

    To be fair you don't NEED the periapt to get enough everfrost resistance on your character.
    Relic armor, reinforcement kits, potions get you more than enough resistance to qualify for FBI.

    Cool.
    How does one restore the Relic Armour without visiting the SKT campaign zone?
    If I can do that easily after shelling out for the Campaign Completion Pack. I'll happily go that route.

    Just so long as I don't have to play any of SKT. That being the entire point of buying the campaign completion...
    Relic armor and the reagents needed are now in Seals vendor since mod 12. In mob 12B you won't need voninblood anymore to restore them and the amount of lanolin and stuff needed will decrease so you'll be ok to enter FBI anyways.
  • preechr#2215 preechr Posts: 488Member Arc User

    agilesto said:

    To be fair you don't NEED the periapt to get enough everfrost resistance on your character.
    Relic armor, reinforcement kits, potions get you more than enough resistance to qualify for FBI.

    Cool.
    How does one restore the Relic Armour without visiting the SKT campaign zone?
    If I can do that easily after shelling out for the Campaign Completion Pack. I'll happily go that route.

    Just so long as I don't have to play any of SKT. That being the entire point of buying the campaign completion...
    I bought the campaign token as well, and I had to do the basic questline for about an hour to get to the quest that rewards you with the Periapt of Everfrost Resistance, which goes in your Key Tab and gives you enough ER to get into the dungeon and the skirmish
  • hawkeyelhawkeyel Posts: 363Member Arc User
    One last question. I have FBI and the skirmish open to run in SKT.Do I also need to have run and completed them so my alts can also be able to do them? Been busy running the RD zone to get better weapons than the Mod 6 ones I was using .Finally done with that. And I still need to start Chult to get that TONG one open ,just going to head down the middle on that one to save time. Thank you.
  • plasticbatplasticbat Posts: 5,869Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited October 2017
    hawkeyel said:

    One last question. I have FBI and the skirmish open to run in SKT.Do I also need to have run and completed them so my alts can also be able to do them? Been busy running the RD zone to get better weapons than the Mod 6 ones I was using .Finally done with that. And I still need to start Chult to get that TONG one open ,just going to head down the middle on that one to save time. Thank you.

    Since you have a character that completed SKT, your alt can do FBI and MSVA in mod 12b but they are not considered to have SKT completed as they won't have the SKT boon. Everfrost resistance requirement and item level will still be needed.
  • preechr#2215 preechr Posts: 488Member Arc User
    I may be off base on this, but after tomorrow's update, I believe dungeons are unlocked account wide once unlocked on one character, so no, I don't think you would have to actually run them, just unlock them

    I don't believe I saw this actually tested and confirmed, and since it might take until tomorrow to find the post from @asterdahl that described the change he made, maybe just wait and see :D
  • mordekai#1901 mordekai Posts: 1,336Member Arc User

    The way i see it.

    I don't have alts, i have a main dps and a main dc so for me, no problem.

    My 3rd character is a tank that i use only for events( such as winter fest, ect) or storage.



    For people who farm ad on multiples alts, this will not work.



    I think once again it's based on good intentions but as always with cryptic the counterpart is always so bad that the good intention is destroyed in the process...



    You should really adjust ilvl for dunjeons.

    Too many players have the gs to run a dunjeon but in fact are pretty useless ingame.



    I have a lvl70 9k tank, i did zero quest, zero campaign boons. I just gave him gear and our guild boons do the rest...

    Actually, for the people who farm AD on multiple L70 alts with low gear, it will work better for them than now.
    Right now, these low gear can go to cloak tower twice per day. These character is so low gear and they can't do any epic dungeon.
    In mod 12b, these alt can do LRQ once per day to get more or less the same amount of AD as now.
    In addition, these LRQ will be fired up more because many who can do T1 Epic dungeon cannot do ERQ.
    Many significantly over gear will be forced to do LRQ to earn AD. Bad for them but good for low gear alt.
    A naked L70 (or even L60) will be able to 'follow' 2 minimum gear L70 to complete LRQ.
    Absolutely. Given there's a choice between LRQ or ERQ to get the same amount of RAD... I'm guessing that there will be a LOT of people with mains who are elligible for ERQ who simply do LRQ for the RAD then go about their normal business of selecting the dungeons they WANT to play as they do now...

    Why bother with ERQ at all?

    Why risk dropping on FBI or MSP with a half geared team and either spending an inordinately long time trying and failing, or sufering a half hour time out on the naughty step? Why not just sprint through a leveling dungeon, grab your RAD and go do something interesting? It's not like you are barred from doing the leveling dungeons... and even if you were, the old "swap some gear and dismiss my summoned companion" trick will soon have you back down below 11K.

    Since Leveling Dungeons will soon be even more filled with L70 players than they are now, any stigma of being an OP bully in a learner zone will be gone. So who in their right mind is going to do ERQ?

    As far as "lesser of two evils" goes, I'm afraid that I'll have to choose speed running leveling dungeons for a guaranteed win, and move quickly onto the way I want to play the game, over the Epic Random Queue herding me into FBI and MSP, because that is the ONLY way the promise of things being quicker is guaranteed.
  • ladypeanut66ladypeanut66 Posts: 78Member Arc User

    The way i see it.

    I don't have alts, i have a main dps and a main dc so for me, no problem.

    My 3rd character is a tank that i use only for events( such as winter fest, ect) or storage.



    For people who farm ad on multiples alts, this will not work.



    I think once again it's based on good intentions but as always with cryptic the counterpart is always so bad that the good intention is destroyed in the process...



    You should really adjust ilvl for dunjeons.

    Too many players have the gs to run a dunjeon but in fact are pretty useless ingame.



    I have a lvl70 9k tank, i did zero quest, zero campaign boons. I just gave him gear and our guild boons do the rest...

    Actually, for the people who farm AD on multiple L70 alts with low gear, it will work better for them than now.
    Right now, these low gear can go to cloak tower twice per day. These character is so low gear and they can't do any epic dungeon.
    In mod 12b, these alt can do LRQ once per day to get more or less the same amount of AD as now.
    In addition, these LRQ will be fired up more because many who can do T1 Epic dungeon cannot do ERQ.
    Many significantly over gear will be forced to do LRQ to earn AD. Bad for them but good for low gear alt.
    A naked L70 (or even L60) will be able to 'follow' 2 minimum gear L70 to complete LRQ.
    Absolutely. Given there's a choice between LRQ or ERQ to get the same amount of RAD... I'm guessing that there will be a LOT of people with mains who are elligible for ERQ who simply do LRQ for the RAD then go about their normal business of selecting the dungeons they WANT to play as they do now...

    Why bother with ERQ at all?

    Why risk dropping on FBI or MSP with a half geared team and either spending an inordinately long time trying and failing, or sufering a half hour time out on the naughty step? Why not just sprint through a leveling dungeon, grab your RAD and go do something interesting? It's not like you are barred from doing the leveling dungeons... and even if you were, the old "swap some gear and dismiss my summoned companion" trick will soon have you back down below 11K.

    Since Leveling Dungeons will soon be even more filled with L70 players than they are now, any stigma of being an OP bully in a learner zone will be gone. So who in their right mind is going to do ERQ?

    As far as "lesser of two evils" goes, I'm afraid that I'll have to choose speed running leveling dungeons for a guaranteed win, and move quickly onto the way I want to play the game, over the Epic Random Queue herding me into FBI and MSP, because that is the ONLY way the promise of things being quicker is guaranteed.
    Are you sure it is an OR and not an AND? I thought you could get X RAD from LRQ + Y RAD from ERQ.

    I may be off base on this, but after tomorrow's update, I believe dungeons are unlocked account wide once unlocked on one character, so no, I don't think you would have to actually run them, just unlock them

    I don't believe I saw this actually tested and confirmed, and since it might take until tomorrow to find the post from @asterdahl that described the change he made, maybe just wait and see :D

    I think the post was on the Faster Campaign Progression thread (or whatever its name, the patronage thread basically).
  • mordekai#1901 mordekai Posts: 1,336Member Arc User
    edited October 2017

    The way i see it.

    I don't have alts, i have a main dps and a main dc so for me, no problem.

    My 3rd character is a tank that i use only for events( such as winter fest, ect) or storage.



    For people who farm ad on multiples alts, this will not work.



    I think once again it's based on good intentions but as always with cryptic the counterpart is always so bad that the good intention is destroyed in the process...



    You should really adjust ilvl for dunjeons.

    Too many players have the gs to run a dunjeon but in fact are pretty useless ingame.



    I have a lvl70 9k tank, i did zero quest, zero campaign boons. I just gave him gear and our guild boons do the rest...

    Actually, for the people who farm AD on multiple L70 alts with low gear, it will work better for them than now.
    Right now, these low gear can go to cloak tower twice per day. These character is so low gear and they can't do any epic dungeon.
    In mod 12b, these alt can do LRQ once per day to get more or less the same amount of AD as now.
    In addition, these LRQ will be fired up more because many who can do T1 Epic dungeon cannot do ERQ.
    Many significantly over gear will be forced to do LRQ to earn AD. Bad for them but good for low gear alt.
    A naked L70 (or even L60) will be able to 'follow' 2 minimum gear L70 to complete LRQ.
    Absolutely. Given there's a choice between LRQ or ERQ to get the same amount of RAD... I'm guessing that there will be a LOT of people with mains who are elligible for ERQ who simply do LRQ for the RAD then go about their normal business of selecting the dungeons they WANT to play as they do now...

    Why bother with ERQ at all?

    Why risk dropping on FBI or MSP with a half geared team and either spending an inordinately long time trying and failing, or sufering a half hour time out on the naughty step? Why not just sprint through a leveling dungeon, grab your RAD and go do something interesting? It's not like you are barred from doing the leveling dungeons... and even if you were, the old "swap some gear and dismiss my summoned companion" trick will soon have you back down below 11K.

    Since Leveling Dungeons will soon be even more filled with L70 players than they are now, any stigma of being an OP bully in a learner zone will be gone. So who in their right mind is going to do ERQ?

    As far as "lesser of two evils" goes, I'm afraid that I'll have to choose speed running leveling dungeons for a guaranteed win, and move quickly onto the way I want to play the game, over the Epic Random Queue herding me into FBI and MSP, because that is the ONLY way the promise of things being quicker is guaranteed.
    Are you sure it is an OR and not an AND? I thought you could get X RAD from LRQ + Y RAD from ERQ.
    This is the question I asked earlier, and apparently it's only one Random Dungeon Queue that issues the larger RAD "bonus" per day.
    Doesn't matter whether its Epic or Leveling.

    So I think the solution is simple.

    Despite the fact that hoards of L70 power players hogging the leveling dungeons will make joining them a hellish experience for the people who are just starting out in Neverwinter, (and for whom those dungeons were originally designed), who would probably be more likely to become long term players if they had a positive experience with their initial time spent with dungeons... we have to accept that the way the game is being designed, unless you are geared for uber PUG play on FBI/MSP, or just don't care whether you win or lose a dungeon run for RAD... the best option is to ignore the whole mess of ERQ and go leveling for RAD for a short blast in LRQ, and then play the rest of your game the way YOU want.

    It's clear that this issue has been thought through by TPTB, and the experiences of sub L70 new players is unimportant compared to shoving as many mopes into FBI and MSP as they can... and if THEY don't care about that section of the player base I'm beginning to wonder if the rest of us shouldn't just follow suit and be greedy grasping areholes only out for ourselves.

    I've tried to push the point of how this idea will mess with sub 11K L70 players, but no one cares...
    More RAD for less effort... (if you live in a world where 93% is more than 100%...)..

    Since your "Random" queue is for RAD, as there is literally NO other incentive beyond that RAD, (un less you are an ultra high level saint and feeling realy REALY altruistic), what is the point of doing ERQ when that RAD farming time is better spent in LRQ?

    Seriously... what is the point?

    Guaranteed success and a fraction of the time...

    Unless there's some new reward to give to 11K+ characters to incentivise them... which brings us back to high - low disparity of earnings...


    Blimey... they really thought this one through.
    Post edited by mordekai#1901 on
This discussion has been closed.