A link to this video was posted earlier in this thread and after watching it I feel it strikes to the heart of Neverwinters biggest problem right now.
How to keep the economy active and under control while trying to keep the player base engaged and not completely resentful.
I think this video could be of value for any Developer of any F2P game from any studio. It did a good job of explaining how I got to the point where I don't plan on spending any more cash on Neverwinter.
Well..what I have been predicting since Perfect World bought Cryptic is now coming to pass. Just like every other game I have played and was bought the new owners are trying to milk the players dry.
I saw it first in Dark Orbit...and the game nearly collapsed and has never recovered...then in Wartune..and now the same scenario is happening here.
The new owners start by adding more and more cash items (look at all the stronghold stuff and the huge AD contributions needed and VIP), then they start attacking the in game awards so the only way to get good equipment is to cash because all the other sources of in game currency are gone. The reason is the same too...to stop botters.
It wont be long before you will see the exodus begin...free players will go first...they will leave looking for a game they feel treats them fairly.
Next the moderate spenders will go looking for a game they can be competitive in without spending thousands. Soon all that will be left are a few diehards and the wallet warriors.
But the wallet warriors will soon tire of no easy PVP kills since so many of the free and moderate spenders left and all they face are other Wallet Warriors. Then they start leaving.
In Dark Orbit this happened 3 years ago and even after they lightened up the game has not recovered.
The same scenario has happened in Wartune in the last year and a half.
Mark my words...if Perfect World will follow the same path and in 6 months Neverwinter will be a ghost town.
Hilarious. Sadly I can't play til early October so I can't witness the masses quitting. I'd really love to have a chat with the management of this game. True masters in their fields.
Wow, I thought I was mad before. So instead of fixing a bot problem you punish those of us who have been here since beta and happened to have spent the effort to get alts up on leadership. I may or may not play anymore, but I can guarantee that I will never buy a blood ruby, race, class, character slot, any of those things I've spent money on in the past. You will never get another dime outa me.
The real problem of this game is that you have no freedom. The sheer number of currencies it forces you to track makes it impossible to do what you want. "You want this? Too bad, all that currency you have accumulated can't buy it, you need that other currency, and that many seals, and that many bear asses". There should be multiple ways to skin a cat, or in this case buy some gear. But this game instead likes to restrict you so that to get certain items you need to do a single thing, over and over until you can afford it. If they had just dropped the gold/AD charade altogether, and either made gold the main currency or made diamonds easy to find in a regular way without having to play the same specific content ad nauseam, the game's economy would actually exist, instead on being based on binds and nerfs.
Wow, for a game that was already filled with problems, you guys sure know how to make things even worse. Thankfully Guild Wars 2 went Free to Play so i guess i'll head over there since they actually seem to WANT players to stay.
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ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
People don't pay $$$ for Zen, because, the items are overpriced. Economics 101....
People will not pay $20 for a blood ruby pack which is only 150k RP which can't upgrade anything. So why blow $20 just to get something 1/4th the way there...? Pay $80 to make your enchant transcendent... That is beyond madness.
I can finally uninstall the game, thanks for changes in leadership.
If leadership was all that kept you to the game, you should have uninstalled much sooner, you clearly don't like the game and should be thankful they gave you this much needed push to better employ your time. :P
You are being foolish if you think that people, other than bots, did not play the game if they had a leadership army. I have 12 leadership alts , and the vast majority of my time is spent playing the game on my main character.
Excuse me, but what are you babbling about? devaneio said that with the leadership change he's going to uninstall, and my post was referred to his situation alone. Where do you and your 12 alts and how you play come into play in all of this?
Now you are going to have to play the game.......read the thread. Why leadership kept him in the game was because it gave him a viable method of advancing his main character , without spending a cubic assload of time doing it.
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santralafaxMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,896Arc User
edited September 2015
I've been watching the data and doing a little evaluating of my own:
When Mod 6 came out it was clear that all of our gear was made obsolete and we would have to re-work our characters--like it or leave. Our loss. It was also extremely unpolished--Cryptic is still reworking tooltips, stores, etc. There is still lvl 60 HAMSTER everywhere. They had no idea what they were doing, and are only crawling out of it now.
Now they are removing AD from Leadership, one of the last bastions of earning after making everything BOP and removing drops from just about everywhere. And now they are going to spend 2 modules "evaluating" what effect that will have on the players before they modify any AD sinks or lower prices on anything.
I only have 2 characters and it affects me. Big army, eh? I earn a small amount from Leadership to augment what I earn from daily PVP. And it is not enough. I often buy AD through the Zen store.
There's no integrity from week to week let alone month to month of Cryptic's "universe." Players cannot get ahead no matter how much they play or how much RL $ they pay here.
This game has a major change just about every week, not usually even announced. It is about the most unstable thing I've ever seen. Sorry I spent cash on it.
The only way the AD changes will be reasonable is if you drop the prices of just about everything in the Zen market so it'll still be reasonable for the average player.
But that's not going to happen, is it? Because this isn't about bots AT ALL, it's just about wringing every cent out of the current player base so you can fund the next game you make that you'll tank into the ground in 2-3 years just like with NW. Here's hoping there's enough bots so your log in #'s will still say reasonable.
Just call me Rod. Member of Grievance! CW: Rodrant Turnbul TR: Rodran DC: Rodrat GWF: ROARdrant TurnBRAWL Other GWF: Shieldrant HR: Bowdrant SW: Wardrant Turnlock (my main!) OP: Paladrant (on Preview!)
So, what's the problem? You're gonna lose a little AD that "is not enough to buy anything worth a damn", but you'll get more AD from dungeons, skirmishes and PvP. AD from Invoke and Salvage is still there. This change clearly should not affect you that much. If anything, you should make more than before.
If he can't do more than two or three dungeons a day, he'll actually get less than before, even without considering LS.
Normal ToS takes 5-10 minutes. Dread Ring skirmish takes about 5-10 minutes as well. And it's all content with a 100% success rate and nearly instant queue. If someone can't even dedicate this little time to the game, I'm not sure how he would deserve any progression at all. I'm also pretty sure that someone who can't dedicate 30 minutes to the game could get any kind of leadership setup going at all (unless he does only that and does not play the game at all, but that shoulnd't be the case here, right?).
were is my compensation for all the time invested into leadership just for the extra ad?
Leadership, while no longer a major source of AD, is still a good source for XP, Gold, and loot items. All of these things are valuable to regular players, but less so to botters.
this is by far the most false statement I have ever seen a developer state in the history of gameing I only have leadership to 20 on two char and 17+ on 4 others. There is not a single leadership quest that offers any kind of usefull reward if you think 1g or a potion worth a few silver is worth the time and ad investment leadership takes your sadly mistake and the xp come on an 8 hour mission doesn't even offer the equilivant of a 5 min quest. with out the astral diamonds leadership offers nothing.
all the time I wasted leveling this profession down the drain not to mention the cost of all the assests I bought and I don't even have hero level assets I find this to be an outrage.
now onto second point
the concept of being able to earn the ad at anytime is the way it should have been from day one the idea of hourly events was lame to start with.
but your not concept is not going to work either because we all know that you are not capable of designing new interface to track your progress thru the bonus zen so say I do 4 dungen runs I guess I will have to start a dam tally of how much bonus I got to know when I am done that's about as smart as making F the default key for everything lets ad that to the list of HAMSTER design decisions
also lets look at this
Old: If you picked up the daily quest, you got 3,000 AD for one dungeon. If you had your chest key, you got an additional 3,000 AD. New: 1. Automatically get 3,000 AD for each of the first two dungeons. 2. In addition, get 150 to 750 AD for each dungeon played (up to a maximum 7,200 AD per day from dungeons). Amount varies by time.
let me see Amount varies by time which means tos takes 10 min to run so it will only reward 150 bonus ad.
which means I will have to run ToS a total of 48 times a day just to get the full bonus let me say this you can kiss my hairy white #$@ if you think I would do that I will gladly uninstall the game before I do that.
this is why I don't do the foundry daily now the fast foundry quests take about 20 to 25 min each I have to do 4 of them for for 4k ad that's hour and 20 min but the good quests are few and far between esp now since you still have't renabled the foundry so were stuck with what you think are good quests and there aren't very many of thos worth the time.
so lets do comparison like yours of what I get now.
leadership 8k+8k+3600+3600= 23200 per day is what I get on my leadership I run daily dungen on 6 during event which is 6k per toon x6 for total of 36000 skirmishes no 2 toons for total of 3000 each plus another 3 per run for total of 6000 x2 plus pvp on 2 toons for total of 4k ad for 4 matches plus if lucky another 4k for wins total of 8k x 2 -16000
final tally leadership 23000 time passive dungen s 36000 1 hour skirmishes 12000 1 hour pvp 16000 1 hour
total 87000 for 3 hours time.
new system dungens 6k 2 runs total 20 min additional 7200 at 150 to 750 lets keep time same as now 1 hour so that is total of 36000 no time for any bonus
skirmishes run two skirmishes takes about 15 min each for total of 3k 2 char that's hour so no time for bonus either so only getting 6k total dam half what I am getting now o well
pvp let me correct you hear you actualy get 8000 for 4 match provided 1 of thos 4 was a win. new system get 4k for 2 matches and bonus upto 4800 match lasts about 15 min average so 2 match on two toons were at an hour and for argument sake I got a win I still only walk away with 4k per to total of 8k unlike the 16k would have got on old system.
so total for me in new system dung 36000 time 1 hour skirmishes 6000 time 1hour pvp 4000 time 1 hour total 46000
so old system I get 87000 for 3 hours time new system I get 46000 for same amount of time take your new system and shove it up your HAMSTER were it belongs thank you have nice life if this goes live I will be uninstalling game.
I've been playing this game for 2 years now and it's sad that it seems like all these changes being made to 'stop the botts' amount to nothing more than HAMSTER the actual players more than the bots since the bots just run a different setup and are then able to still make tons od AD. Instead of hurting the players, why don't you dev's look into doing things that will actually effect the bots. A good example of this is that Guild Wars 2 just became F2P and they made it so that bots are not an issue. The way they did this was actually quite simple. 1) limited chat for F2P 2) no in-game trading for F2P 3) no AH use for F2P. Those 3 things can be applied to this game as well in a fashion. Make it so those restrictions are lifted when a player enters in their credit card/bank card info and ties that to the account. Add a rule in the user agreement that states that if caught using a bot or gold spamming, their card will be charged x number of dollars and the account banned. Also, with their creit card/bank card info, you can block any new accounts using that card. Apply this and you won't have to touch the leadership AD since the bots won't want to give their credit card/bank card info.
I've been playing this game for 2 years now and it's sad that it seems like all these changes being made to 'stop the botts' amount to nothing more than HAMSTER the actual players more than the bots since the bots just run a different setup and are then able to still make tons od AD. Instead of hurting the players, why don't you dev's look into doing things that will actually effect the bots. A good example of this is that Guild Wars 2 just became F2P and they made it so that bots are not an issue. The way they did this was actually quite simple. 1) limited chat for F2P 2) no in-game trading for F2P 3) no AH use for F2P. Those 3 things can be applied to this game as well in a fashion. Make it so those restrictions are lifted when a player enters in their credit card/bank card info and ties that to the account. Add a rule in the user agreement that states that if caught using a bot or gold spamming, their card will be charged x number of dollars and the account banned. Also, with their creit card/bank card info, you can block any new accounts using that card. Apply this and you won't have to touch the leadership AD since the bots won't want to give their credit card/bank card info.
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Not that I'd be against some harsher punishment for botting but I'd be really surprised if adding a clause that let them ban someone and charge anything to their card is legal. In any case the person getting banned could easily do a chargeback through their bank and the only recourse that PWE would have is to ban their account. Which in that case they would've already done.
Time and time again I see the comments to the effect "the devs dont listen to the players or consult" ok the devs don't have too, but seriously if they want the game to be here in 5 years time it needs to be a game people want to play. How do they make a game people want to play, LISTEN to them....
The VIP idea was a good one for getting a regular income for the game, could have had a bit less group bias but was a good start. This removal of astral diamonds will effect normal players way more than the botters.. they will either adapt or go elsewhere, and the normal players will leave because the game will be way to much hard work or a huge zen sink
There's a word related to games, especially computer games, its the word fun... sadly lacking in a lot of mmos' lately and NW is not the exception...
I changed the look of 2 outfits for one of my toons once she got to level 70, why did I wait till then? because 50k astral diamonds to change the look of a outfit that only lasts a level is not very smart.. where did that ad come from? leadership that was started in at level 1.... refining, the cost of reagents is ridiclous especially when you combine the percentage chance of failure, the games solution? spend $10 us on stone to make sure it happens.. seriously...
I did the math with the loss of leadership plus the nerf to ad dailies
were losing ad and gaining more of a grind
example now if run 1 dungeon on one char during event you earn 6k diamonds takes 10 min
new system run two dungeons you earn 6k diamonds and it takes 20 min you can then earn another 7200 at 150 to 750 per run based on time and we all know a 10 min tos run will only give the min 150 so that's another 48 runs or 8 and half hours to get the bonus. but lets say it gives 750 per run that's still another 9.6 runs of tos at 10 min each or 1.6 hours.
even if you don't go for the bonus your dungeon time has doubled.
pvp you can earn 8k per day per char with 4 match and 1 win
new system you only get total of 4k for 2 matches plus another 4800 at 200 to 300 per match even at 300 a match 15 min a match that's 16 matches at 15 min a match total of 4 hours
skirmishes now you get 3k for 3 runs plus 1k per run if during the event for a total of 6k takes about 30 min to do new system you get 3k for 2 runs so about 20 min and you then get bonus on each additional run at rate of 50 to 500 max of 7200 even at max 500 per run that's still 14.4 runs and at 10 min each another 2.4 hours.
currently just with one toon you can earn
dungen 6k 10 min skirm 6k 30 min pvp 8k 1 hour total 20,000 astral diamonds in 1 hour 40 min
new system you earn dungen 6k for 20 min skirmish 3k for 20 min pvp 4k for 30 min total 13000 for 50 min
with bonus new sytem dungen 6k 20 min 7200 bonus at minimum 1.6 hours total of 13200 skirmish 3k 20 min bonus of 7200 at minimum 2.4 hours total of 10200 pvp 4k for 30 min bouns of 4800 for another 4 hours minimum total 8800 total 32200 for 8 hours
let me say that again old system you get 20k for 1 hour 40 min new system you get 13k for 50 min or 32200 for 8 hours
this does not even take into account the loss of ad income most are going to lose with the loss of leadership ad for me I am loseing another 23000 ad which I get without boting.
in summary this is completely unacceptable and we need to make a stand this is not there game they made it but we play it there pay checks come from the money we invest in this game make your voices heard before its to late.
vampirecavyMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 55Arc User
As somebody who benefits enormously from leadership army (I've got... 15, 16 characters at at least level 20 leadership), I promise you, this change is almost certainly necessary. I make a stupid amount of AD every day for essentially doing nothing at all. Is the current solution as they have it perfect? Nope! They do need to adjust sinks, and put in more AD sources from content if this is going to work - but even -without- the issue of botting, this is necessary. That being said, I take issue with something:
[quote]Leadership, while no longer a major source of AD, is still a good source for XP, Gold, and loot items. All of these things are valuable to regular players, but less so to botters.[/quote]
Let's not kid ourselves here - this is patently untrue. Unless the EXP increase in leadership is COMICAL, then it's not going to be enough. The gold is irrelevant to most of the playerbase by now. The 'loot items' are valuable, yes... but you don't start seeing tasks for even thaum stones until rank 21, which is a LONG term investment. Put something else into leadership that is -actually- worthwhile if this change is going through, but don't kid yourself about any of those things being enough for most players to still consider it worth to do anything with leadership.
As somebody who benefits enormously from leadership army (I've got... 15, 16 characters at at least level 20 leadership), I promise you, this change is almost certainly necessary. I make a stupid amount of AD every day for essentially doing nothing at all. Is the current solution as they have it perfect? Nope! They do need to adjust sinks, and put in more AD sources from content if this is going to work - but even -without- the issue of botting, this is necessary. That being said, I take issue with something:
[quote]Leadership, while no longer a major source of AD, is still a good source for XP, Gold, and loot items. All of these things are valuable to regular players, but less so to botters.[/quote]
Let's not kid ourselves here - this is patently untrue. Unless the EXP increase in leadership is COMICAL, then it's not going to be enough. The gold is irrelevant to most of the playerbase by now. The 'loot items' are valuable, yes... but you don't start seeing tasks for even thaum stones until rank 21, which is a LONG term investment. Put something else into leadership that is -actually- worthwhile if this change is going through, but don't kid yourself about any of those things being enough for most players to still consider it worth to do anything with leadership.
i can live with the nerf to leadership but there also cutting the dailies pay out in half and quadrupleing the time it takes to get the close to the same amount you can get now
I've been hoping and praying for this change for over a year now - my attitude has always been that players should earn AD from playing, not from running professions on 50 chars twice a day.
This will be a VAST improvement to the game and its economy.
So in other words you just wanna make it impossible for a player to earn AD and buy zen instead. Cool tactic guys, enjoy going out of business. Because of the acts of a few, you remove from the majority? Some bots were using Leadership so we all have to suffer? Thats like saying all guns need to be outlawed because someone shot up a school with one, this is the laziest and dumbest way possible to handle it. Handle the bots, not the method, then you wont lose 75% of your player base.
I've been hoping and praying for this change for over a year now - my attitude has always been that players should earn AD from playing, not from running professions on 50 chars twice a day.
This will be a VAST improvement to the game and its economy.
I'm glad you finally listened!
Yeah. That's what it does on paper. Guess what happens IRL with the stats as presented? Those of us with new alts get yoinked over, hard as well as those of us with things called "jobs" and "a life outside of NWO" who may not have time to devote 4+ hours per day, per character to get 24K AD. Meanwhile, the actual botters and exploiters sit back, coked to the gills on the ungodly amounts of AD they've made and stockpiled from using said exploits, and who will continue to exploit this by shifting to PVP (again, as has been pointed out, if they can be scripted to run Ghost Stories, you think they'll have a problem scripting them to 'go to node 2, die, repeat' to get a participation award?)
This change represents one of two things. Either 1. Continued kneejerking incompetence from Individuals Who Cannot Be Identified likely caused by the fact that they spend zero time in the game they actually make. or 2. The botting claim is just a smokescreen used to cover up a ham-fisted attempt to force the players to buy more Zen to advance. Because the primary hold up to advancement these days (GMOPs Wards, etc.) are all but guaranteed to stay at the same price for a period of time ranging from the next three months (the last time we got an actual response to a 'we're looking into it' claim) and the heat death of the universe, because they're not sold by botters, but by the WB, which has a set price unless you're a high ranking VIP.
And whilst I would normally not be one to attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity, Cryptic has seemingly gone out of its way over the past 5 months to severely damage the precious trust that has to exist between a game company and its customers in an F2P model. And the cynic in me is increasingly disinclined to give them the benefit of the doubt.
Comments
IMHO currently this game feels more like this...
How to keep the economy active and under control while trying to keep the player base engaged and not completely resentful.
I think this video could be of value for any Developer of any F2P game from any studio. It did a good job of explaining how I got to the point where I don't plan on spending any more cash on Neverwinter.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=Mhz9OXy86a0
I saw it first in Dark Orbit...and the game nearly collapsed and has never recovered...then in Wartune..and now the same scenario is happening here.
The new owners start by adding more and more cash items (look at all the stronghold stuff and the huge AD contributions needed and VIP), then they start attacking the in game awards so the only way to get good equipment is to cash because all the other sources of in game currency are gone. The reason is the same too...to stop botters.
It wont be long before you will see the exodus begin...free players will go first...they will leave looking for a game they feel treats them fairly.
Next the moderate spenders will go looking for a game they can be competitive in without spending thousands. Soon all that will be left are a few diehards and the wallet warriors.
But the wallet warriors will soon tire of no easy PVP kills since so many of the free and moderate spenders left and all they face are other Wallet Warriors. Then they start leaving.
In Dark Orbit this happened 3 years ago and even after they lightened up the game has not recovered.
The same scenario has happened in Wartune in the last year and a half.
Mark my words...if Perfect World will follow the same path and in 6 months Neverwinter will be a ghost town.
Really too bad...it was a nice game.
People will not pay $20 for a blood ruby pack which is only 150k RP which can't upgrade anything. So why blow $20 just to get something 1/4th the way there...? Pay $80 to make your enchant transcendent... That is beyond madness.
When Mod 6 came out it was clear that all of our gear was made obsolete and we would have to re-work our characters--like it or leave. Our loss. It was also extremely unpolished--Cryptic is still reworking tooltips, stores, etc. There is still lvl 60 HAMSTER everywhere. They had no idea what they were doing, and are only crawling out of it now.
Now they are removing AD from Leadership, one of the last bastions of earning after making everything BOP and removing drops from just about everywhere. And now they are going to spend 2 modules "evaluating" what effect that will have on the players before they modify any AD sinks or lower prices on anything.
I only have 2 characters and it affects me. Big army, eh? I earn a small amount from Leadership to augment what I earn from daily PVP. And it is not enough. I often buy AD through the Zen store.
There's no integrity from week to week let alone month to month of Cryptic's "universe." Players cannot get ahead no matter how much they play or how much RL $ they pay here.
This game has a major change just about every week, not usually even announced. It is about the most unstable thing I've ever seen. Sorry I spent cash on it.
But that's not going to happen, is it? Because this isn't about bots AT ALL, it's just about wringing every cent out of the current player base so you can fund the next game you make that you'll tank into the ground in 2-3 years just like with NW. Here's hoping there's enough bots so your log in #'s will still say reasonable.
CW: Rodrant Turnbul
TR: Rodran
DC: Rodrat
GWF: ROARdrant TurnBRAWL
Other GWF: Shieldrant
HR: Bowdrant
SW: Wardrant Turnlock (my main!)
OP: Paladrant (on Preview!)
Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO
Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF
Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP
The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
I'm also pretty sure that someone who can't dedicate 30 minutes to the game could get any kind of leadership setup going at all (unless he does only that and does not play the game at all, but that shoulnd't be the case here, right?).
were is my compensation for all the time invested into leadership just for the extra ad?
Leadership, while no longer a major source of AD, is still a good source for XP, Gold, and loot items. All of these things are valuable to regular players, but less so to botters.
this is by far the most false statement I have ever seen a developer state in the history of gameing I only have leadership to 20 on two char and 17+ on 4 others. There is not a single leadership quest that offers any kind of usefull reward if you think 1g or a potion worth a few silver is worth the time and ad investment leadership takes your sadly mistake and the xp come on an 8 hour mission doesn't even offer the equilivant of a 5 min quest. with out the astral diamonds leadership offers nothing.
all the time I wasted leveling this profession down the drain not to mention the cost of all the assests I bought and I don't even have hero level assets I find this to be an outrage.
now onto second point
the concept of being able to earn the ad at anytime is the way it should have been from day one the idea of hourly events was lame to start with.
but your not concept is not going to work either because we all know that you are not capable of designing new interface to track your progress thru the bonus zen so say I do 4 dungen runs I guess I will have to start a dam tally of how much bonus I got to know when I am done that's about as smart as making F the default key for everything lets ad that to the list of HAMSTER design decisions
also lets look at this
Old: If you picked up the daily quest, you got 3,000 AD for one dungeon. If you had your chest key, you got an additional 3,000 AD.
New: 1. Automatically get 3,000 AD for each of the first two dungeons. 2. In addition, get 150 to 750 AD for each dungeon played (up to a maximum 7,200 AD per day from dungeons). Amount varies by time.
let me see Amount varies by time which means tos takes 10 min to run so it will only reward 150 bonus ad.
which means I will have to run ToS a total of 48 times a day just to get the full bonus let me say this you can kiss my hairy white #$@ if you think I would do that I will gladly uninstall the game before I do that.
this is why I don't do the foundry daily now the fast foundry quests take about 20 to 25 min each I have to do 4 of them for for 4k ad that's hour and 20 min but the good quests are few and far between esp now since you still have't renabled the foundry so were stuck with what you think are good quests and there aren't very many of thos worth the time.
so lets do comparison like yours of what I get now.
leadership 8k+8k+3600+3600= 23200 per day is what I get on my leadership
I run daily dungen on 6 during event which is 6k per toon x6 for total of 36000
skirmishes no 2 toons for total of 3000 each plus another 3 per run for total of 6000 x2
plus pvp on 2 toons for total of 4k ad for 4 matches plus if lucky another 4k for wins total of 8k x 2 -16000
final tally
leadership 23000 time passive
dungen s 36000 1 hour
skirmishes 12000 1 hour
pvp 16000 1 hour
total 87000 for 3 hours time.
new system
dungens 6k 2 runs total 20 min additional 7200 at 150 to 750 lets keep time same as now 1 hour so that is total of 36000 no time for any bonus
skirmishes run two skirmishes takes about 15 min each for total of 3k 2 char that's hour so no time for bonus either so only getting 6k total dam half what I am getting now o well
pvp let me correct you hear you actualy get 8000 for 4 match provided 1 of thos 4 was a win.
new system get 4k for 2 matches and bonus upto 4800 match lasts about 15 min average so 2 match on two toons were at an hour and for argument sake I got a win I still only walk away with 4k per to total of 8k unlike the 16k would have got on old system.
so total for me in new system
dung 36000 time 1 hour
skirmishes 6000 time 1hour
pvp 4000 time 1 hour
total 46000
so old system I get 87000 for 3 hours time new system I get 46000 for same amount of time take your new system and shove it up your HAMSTER were it belongs thank you have nice life if this goes live I will be uninstalling game.
NW-DHNVMMGVJ Dragons horde part one.
http://youtu.be/0KbqTWeJqxc
The way they did this was actually quite simple. 1) limited chat for F2P 2) no in-game trading for F2P 3) no AH use for F2P.
Those 3 things can be applied to this game as well in a fashion. Make it so those restrictions are lifted when a player enters in their credit card/bank card info and ties that to the account. Add a rule in the user agreement that states that if caught using a bot or gold spamming, their card will be charged x number of dollars and the account banned. Also, with their creit card/bank card info, you can block any new accounts using that card. Apply this and you won't have to touch the leadership AD since the bots won't want to give their credit card/bank card info.
Not that I'd be against some harsher punishment for botting but I'd be really surprised if adding a clause that let them ban someone and charge anything to their card is legal. In any case the person getting banned could easily do a chargeback through their bank and the only recourse that PWE would have is to ban their account. Which in that case they would've already done.
The VIP idea was a good one for getting a regular income for the game, could have had a bit less group bias but was a good start. This removal of astral diamonds will effect normal players way more than the botters.. they will either adapt or go elsewhere, and the normal players will leave because the game will be way to much hard work or a huge zen sink
There's a word related to games, especially computer games, its the word fun... sadly lacking in a lot of mmos' lately and NW is not the exception...
I changed the look of 2 outfits for one of my toons once she got to level 70, why did I wait till then? because 50k astral diamonds to change the look of a outfit that only lasts a level is not very smart.. where did that ad come from? leadership that was started in at level 1.... refining, the cost of reagents is ridiclous especially when you combine the percentage chance of failure, the games solution? spend $10 us on stone to make sure it happens.. seriously...
10:04PM in General Discussion (PC)
I did the math with the loss of leadership plus the nerf to ad dailies
were losing ad and gaining more of a grind
example now if run 1 dungeon on one char during event you earn 6k diamonds takes 10 min
new system run two dungeons you earn 6k diamonds and it takes 20 min you can then earn another 7200 at 150 to 750 per run based on time and we all know a 10 min tos run will only give the min 150 so that's another 48 runs or 8 and half hours to get the bonus. but lets say it gives 750 per run that's still another 9.6 runs of tos at 10 min each or 1.6 hours.
even if you don't go for the bonus your dungeon time has doubled.
pvp you can earn 8k per day per char with 4 match and 1 win
new system you only get total of 4k for 2 matches plus another 4800 at 200 to 300 per match even at 300 a match 15 min a match that's 16 matches at 15 min a match total of 4 hours
skirmishes now you get 3k for 3 runs plus 1k per run if during the event for a total of 6k takes about 30 min to do new system you get 3k for 2 runs so about 20 min and you then get bonus on each additional run at rate of 50 to 500 max of 7200 even at max 500 per run that's still 14.4 runs and at 10 min each another 2.4 hours.
currently just with one toon you can earn
dungen 6k 10 min
skirm 6k 30 min
pvp 8k 1 hour
total 20,000 astral diamonds in 1 hour 40 min
new system you earn
dungen 6k for 20 min
skirmish 3k for 20 min
pvp 4k for 30 min
total 13000 for 50 min
with bonus new sytem
dungen 6k 20 min 7200 bonus at minimum 1.6 hours total of 13200
skirmish 3k 20 min bonus of 7200 at minimum 2.4 hours total of 10200
pvp 4k for 30 min bouns of 4800 for another 4 hours minimum total 8800
total 32200 for 8 hours
let me say that again old system you get 20k for 1 hour 40 min new system you get 13k for 50 min or 32200 for 8 hours
this does not even take into account the loss of ad income most are going to lose with the loss of leadership ad for me I am loseing another 23000 ad which I get without boting.
in summary
this is completely unacceptable and we need to make a stand this is not there game they made it but we play it there pay checks come from the money we invest in this game make your voices heard before its to late.
NW-DHNVMMGVJ Dragons horde part one.
http://youtu.be/0KbqTWeJqxc
[quote]Leadership, while no longer a major source of AD, is still a good source for XP, Gold, and loot items. All of these things are valuable to regular players, but less so to botters.[/quote]
Let's not kid ourselves here - this is patently untrue. Unless the EXP increase in leadership is COMICAL, then it's not going to be enough. The gold is irrelevant to most of the playerbase by now. The 'loot items' are valuable, yes... but you don't start seeing tasks for even thaum stones until rank 21, which is a LONG term investment. Put something else into leadership that is -actually- worthwhile if this change is going through, but don't kid yourself about any of those things being enough for most players to still consider it worth to do anything with leadership.
NW-DHNVMMGVJ Dragons horde part one.
http://youtu.be/0KbqTWeJqxc
I've been hoping and praying for this change for over a year now - my attitude has always been that players should earn AD from playing, not from running professions on 50 chars twice a day.
This will be a VAST improvement to the game and its economy.
I'm glad you finally listened!
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This change represents one of two things. Either 1. Continued kneejerking incompetence from Individuals Who Cannot Be Identified likely caused by the fact that they spend zero time in the game they actually make. or 2. The botting claim is just a smokescreen used to cover up a ham-fisted attempt to force the players to buy more Zen to advance. Because the primary hold up to advancement these days (GMOPs Wards, etc.) are all but guaranteed to stay at the same price for a period of time ranging from the next three months (the last time we got an actual response to a 'we're looking into it' claim) and the heat death of the universe, because they're not sold by botters, but by the WB, which has a set price unless you're a high ranking VIP.
And whilst I would normally not be one to attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity, Cryptic has seemingly gone out of its way over the past 5 months to severely damage the precious trust that has to exist between a game company and its customers in an F2P model. And the cynic in me is increasingly disinclined to give them the benefit of the doubt.