I can finally uninstall the game, thanks for changes in leadership.
If leadership was all that kept you to the game, you should have uninstalled much sooner, you clearly don't like the game and should be thankful they gave you this much needed push to better employ your time. :P
Right, NWO is D&D not Monopoly
You mean Dragons & Dragons? Soon to be a bad moba?
The problem is that NO ONE WANTS ASTRAL DIAMONDS - except to convert it to Zen Points. Anyone buying Zen Points will spend it directly in the Zen market and not convert it to Astral Diamonds because there is no market for AD - everything of interest to spend AD on is no longer in the AH because it is all Bind on Pickup; people can't sell it; I can't buy it.
So why on earth would I trade Zen for AD when there is nothing to buy with AD except the cheap stuff that I can just earn enough AD to buy?
This is your Catch-22 Cryptic. You want to balance the economy? Then created REWARDS that people WANT, that they can SELL IN THE AH.
Then there would be some incentive to want Astral Diamonds. Then if I can't earn it fast enough I'll buy Zen and exchange it. But right now, as someone willing to buy Zen to exchange for AD to buy stuff - why would I? There's nothing interesting to buy.
Get to the root of the economic problem: Make quest rewards BETTER instead of the HAMSTER-ola that barely justifies playing at all because right now I play more for the action than the rewards that I just leave laying on the ground polluting the zone.
Just make the profession make items and profit from them, right now is too expensive to make Major Armor Penetration Armor Kit , cause it cost more AD to produce it than what its sold on Auction house. I think all professions should make you AD.
I can finally uninstall the game, thanks for changes in leadership.
If leadership was all that kept you to the game, you should have uninstalled much sooner, you clearly don't like the game and should be thankful they gave you this much needed push to better employ your time. :P
You are being foolish if you think that people, other than bots, did not play the game if they had a leadership army. I have 12 leadership alts , and the vast majority of my time is spent playing the game on my main character.
You get XP from leadership, are you kidding me? This is NOTHING for a lvl 70 char with 90+ power points. Let the tasks reward GMOPS, more RP or something like that, otherwise you will lose ~50% of your long time players and there will be 10-100 die hard BIS players talking about the good old times, while newer players level one or two chars, see that it would take them 10k $ or 5 years, to get BIS gear and leave.
Okay people you need to calm down. It sounds so much worse than it actually is.
You get less AD. YES. The AD you get will skyrocket in Value. YES. Prices will DROP so that players can afford the items. YES.
A mount wont cost 4m AD in AH because nobody will be able to buy it and then the seller wont get his AD. So he will lower the price far enough so people can afford it. So instead of 4m maybe it will cost 400k. This wont happen over a night, but I think this is the long term goal.
And I think they will adjust all vendor/zen prices after time.
I love when people understand how economies work and understand that currency, like any other object, has a supply and demand value attached to it.
This is far from correct. For this to work other in game items would have to have the same price drop as well and increase in frequency and have a reduced cost of the built in sinks. You are missing the fact that as long as the supply of items is low the demand will stay high all you are doing is inflating their value putting them further out of reach of the casual gamer you are trying to help.
I can finally uninstall the game, thanks for changes in leadership.
If leadership was all that kept you to the game, you should have uninstalled much sooner, you clearly don't like the game and should be thankful they gave you this much needed push to better employ your time. :P
You are being foolish if you think that people, other than bots, did not play the game if they had a leadership army. I have 12 leadership alts , and the vast majority of my time is spent playing the game on my main character.
Excuse me, but what are you babbling about? devaneio said that with the leadership change he's going to uninstall, and my post was referred to his situation alone. Where do you and your 12 alts and how you play come into play in all of this?
The decision to remove AD from Leadership is insane. I started back in the beta days and this will be the decision hat finally frees my time up for other games. I have a limited income and built up leadership through small cash infusions and many hours of play to build up leadership so I could compete with the "P2W" players. I can compete today and my leadership investmetn allows me to remain competitive (not at the top but competitive) with my small cash flow. Suddenly you want to change how that works after the intense grind in leadership to get there (and everyone knows that gold, XP, and loot have no real value after you hit level 70 - I have more gold than I can give away and the loot is not good enough to compete in PVP). Sadly you announce this after I invested in the VIP program so I wasted money there. It will be tough to say goodbye to all that effort I put in already but without my AD to buy packs to hold the increasing large number of different refinement items and to buy enhanced equipment when you change the balance of power in the game I have to look at if it is worth the grind any longer. A shame to, since I have touted your game as a true free to play where non P2W can be 95% competitive. You had the balance and plan to throw it away because you cannot find a way to combat bots - like nuking a whole city go kill 5 bad guys. I flagged this so I can see if this plan goes forward so I know when to stop playing. For now I will just back off on my small investments (wish I could get back my VIP money).
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drartwhodentMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 301Arc User
Bots do not run leadership armies, they run the 2 free char slots and start another hundred free accounts and do the same. Please stop lying to us (and yourselves?) that this has anything at all to do with fighting bots. This is to try to sell more zen. Which in and of itself is fine and dandy, except for the smoke and mirrors you put up to try to bamboozle the naive. Bots run the content already. See the comments about Ghost Stories just for one example. This will NOT hurt the bots much less stop them. I saw one moderator say that 1000(s?) of bots are banned daily. A 24 hour chat ban is not a *real* ban. Pay someone just over minimum wage to actually ban / delete bot accounts all day long. If x number of people report spam on an account, that employee could take a quick look at the chat log and if there was indeed 3rd party website advertising, completely delete that account immediately. Not a slap on the wrist chat ban that they laugh at since they have literally hundreds of accounts waiting in the wings to keep the spam flowing. It might cost you a few shekels up front, but it will keep your players much happier and happy players pay more than unhappy ones so it should come out as a net profit for Cryptic. I am not a happy player myself at the moment. Forcing me to play in ways that I do not enjoy - pvp/skirmish/dungeon - is not going to keep me coming back. I like solo pve and Foundry quests. Again I ask, why do you hate me so?
> ejziponken wrote: >> Okay people you need to calm down. It sounds so much worse >> than it actually is. >> >> You get less AD. YES. >> The AD you get will skyrocket in Value. YES. >> Prices will DROP so that players can afford the items. YES. >> >> A mount wont cost 4m AD in AH because nobody will be able >> to buy it and then the seller wont get his AD. So he will >> lower the price far enough so people can afford it. So >> instead of 4m maybe it will cost 400k. This wont happen >> over a night, but I think this is the long term goal. >> >> And I think they will adjust all vendor/zen prices after time.
ambisinisterr wrote: > I love when people understand how economies work and understand > that currency, like any other object, has a supply and demand > value attached to it.
And I love it, when people unterstand how economies work and fail to understand that fixed price items (required for upgearing), unlike any other object, are intangible to supply and demand value attached to it.
> ejziponken wrote: >> Okay people you need to calm down. It sounds so much worse >> than it actually is. >> >> You get less AD. YES. >> The AD you get will skyrocket in Value. YES. >> Prices will DROP so that players can afford the items. YES. >> >> A mount wont cost 4m AD in AH because nobody will be able >> to buy it and then the seller wont get his AD. So he will >> lower the price far enough so people can afford it. So >> instead of 4m maybe it will cost 400k. This wont happen >> over a night, but I think this is the long term goal. >> >> And I think they will adjust all vendor/zen prices after time.
ambisinisterr wrote: > I love when people understand how economies work and understand > that currency, like any other object, has a supply and demand > value attached to it.
And I love it, when people unterstand how economies work and fail to understand that fixed price items (required for upgearing), unlike any other object, are intangible to supply and demand value attached to it.
They are an immovable motor. They influence the value of diamonds while not being influenced by them. So they are a factor, they still are one of the plates of the scale. If it becomes harder to acquire wealth but prices stay the same, then progression is made slower.
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cbrowne0329Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 293Arc User
One thing I would change is forget the by type AD cap and make it a Daily AD cap. There are going to be days where all I want to do is PVP, other Dungeons, (probably never Skirmishes unless you make them all more interesting like the one where you bash down the door at the beginning). I don't want to have to DO stuff I'm not interseted in to make my money, that's why leadership worked.
Still not going to be able to earn as much money as I did with my 11 toons though. And unlike the leadership armies, I actually play and gear all my toons... so that income loss is brutal... understandable but brutal.
1. Supply and demand means nothing when GMOPs, Wards, mount advancing, etc. all have set prices. The equivalent cost of these items just went up exponentially. And who has the time to play 6 hours a day for an entire week just to get a single GMOP? I need dozens of these things if I want my character to not suck!
2. Since when is 3000 AD considered 'signficant'?? You devs do realize that it costs MILLIONS of AD just to create a character that can actually play the high level content with a degree of enjoyment?
3. You aren't going to change the bots. They'll adapt. All you did was ruin the experience for the casual player whose only chance of even getting a 2000 gear score required to access the epic dungeons was by having a handful of alts farming Leadership. The bots aren't going anywhere, they'll find an exploit. But players have a lot of MMO options right now and I think you'll see them leave this game in droves. Mod 6 was bad, but this is catastrophic IMO.
4. Since when is Leadership not part of the game? It's an in-game game and has taken a lot of time and investment by a lot of people.
5. Cryptic did this to themselves and we're paying the price. They should have never allowed 50 character slots, they should have an in-game GM monitoring chat and banning botters and goldspammers, they should have a 3rd party product monitoring botting.
6. PVP sucks and it's about to get worse. I don't want to be forced to play it. I want to earn AD by playing, but playing EVERYTHING! Why are you not giving me AD in Well of Dragons, EE, Sharandar, Icewindale and Dread Ring? You created a story and campaigns and removed incentive to play them.
7. You want to fix the economy? Then get rid of the REASONS why people farm AD. I don't want AD. I want to upgrade my character gear score so I can access higher level content. I only run Leadership to pay for refining and GMOPs. Get rid of GMOPs and 1% success rates altogether. Have artifacts require the other Greater Marks that we can actually find in quests. Or create a weeklong Leadership task that creates Account Bound purple refining.
8. How can my guild upgrade Stronghold if it takes 40 million just for the guild hall and now none of us have any money? And the lvl 70 gear we farm can't be sold on the AH for AD because nobody wants it? You added an amazing addition to this game and then cut it's tail off right behind the ears a month later.
9. And you're not fooling anyone. The bots are the cover, but driving people to paying you more money is the reason. But why would we pay for something that's buggy, laggy, the queue's are awful, we can't progress our character and you've removed 75% of the dungeons and skirmishes over the past several months? I would pay for MORE content, but I'm not paying for LESS content. You took away 11 dungeons! And there's NO skirmishes available from lvl 60-69! How is that providing incentive to me to sign up for VIP? AD bonus was the best incentive there and you've taken that away immediately after launching VIP! That shows you are doing a knee-jerk reaction here that wasn't thought out even a month ago. And that lack of confidence in your long-term plan is what's going to drive away 80% of your players.
Cryptic if you think botting exploit will stop once you remove AD from leadership then you are naive
i will tell you what gonna happen
1. there will be bot army invading pvp que and stay still in the campfire that will ruin PVP like hell 2. there will be still praying bot for AD 3. if you make HE or foundry that reward AD there is high possibilty this will be exploit by bot 4. your playerbase population will suffer severely and make stronghold that need a lot of player to work become fail
if Crytic really gonna do this.. at least make AD income from PVP cannot be exploit by bot, here my suggestion make AD income from PVP depend on contribution Automatically get 2,000 AD for each of the first two matches is great each kill = 25 AD max 5 times on the same toon each assist = 5 AD max 5 times on the same toon the winning team got 1.5x or 2x bonus reward AD not include 2000 AD for first two matches
please think a formula that will not gonna make bot army invade pvp que
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rapticorMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,078Arc User
Thank you for giving me a reason to finally stop playing this game. Unfortunately I picked up a year of VIP so I'll need to at least keep logging in daily however that will be the last money you get from me for purchasing Zen.
A devs job should be creating a great playing experience. Fixing bugs, adding new content. Not ignoring bugs, removing massive amounts of content (11 dungeons gone!), ignoring botters and ignoring the issues that frustrate players. This game's queue and LFG system is the worst I have seen in 10 years of online gaming. How can we spend all day doing skirmishes and dungeons if it's near impossible to get groups going?? At least during the Featured Times the queues would be faster and you could actually get a group going because it acted as a focus to drive players there.
I'm a casual player. I have a job and small kids. I squeeze this game in when I can. Running Leadership on my 5 alts is the ONLY thing that allows me to get anything in this game. It took me 2.5 years to get to Leadership lvl 25. I did it 2 weeks ago. Now I feel that effort was like a giant frozen fish slapping me in the head screaming "you wasted your life!". And THAT feeling...THAT feeling is what you're leaving people with and that is what's going to drive people away. That...disgusting feeling of being played for a fool who had the rug pulled out and left in a lurch. I can't IMAGINE how that guy that has purple Heroes across the board and logs in 10 times a day just so he can be a leader in his guild and help grow his Stronghold feels.
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viperwitch23Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 205Arc User
Wait Did someone said that only 1 toon per account will get AD from first 2 dung/skirm/pvp? AND rest of them get NOTHING?
I'm not actually sure how this will stop bots and spammers. Surely this is good news for them since now they will get more customers. People will find it harder to earn AD, and will therefore buy from them rather then investing time in the game and doing leadership. Lets not forget leadership is a means to an end, not an end in and of itself. People do that as a means of getting AD to buy the items they need so they can spend time playing the game. This move to me is ridiculous on so many levels.
Hey folks, thank you for all of the feedback. I know this is a very touchy subject and everyone feels very passionately about it, which is why I wanted to get information out as soon as I could. I'm going to try and clear up a little confusion, and let you know what we're currently evaluating.
These changes are on Preview right now. They will be going live next week.
The bonus AD earned from the first 2 runs of something (like a dungeon) do NOT count towards the other AD cap. So your first 2 dungeon runs will earn you 3000 AD each. On top of that, you'll be earning AD from a separate pool based on what you ran. This other pool is what has the daily cap of 7200 AD. For your 3rd+ runs, you'll only be earning from that separate pool.
We will be watching what these AD changes do to the average player's holdings. Based off of that data we will be re-evaluating all of our AD pricing in the game.
As I'd mentioned, we are looking into solutions for the solo player to get more AD. I hope to have news there very soon.
We will be evaluating leadership tasks to make sure the required times and rewards make sense.
We are also looking into what we can do to make it less painful AD-wise for alts. I really don't want people to feel that the only way to have the resources necessary to alt is to make a leadership army.
Again, thank you for the feedback. We are listening to what you say, and we're watching data. All of this information together will continue to help us make positive changes to the game.
If it were up to me, they'd get rid of GMOPs entirely or get rid of artifact gear entirely. I'd rather play content and get rewarded with gear than spend all my waking hours trying to figure out how I'm going to afford the 50 million it takes to ramp up my gear to a level that doesn't suck.
Artifact gear: - killed the AH. Nobody wants a lvl 70 green belt. - gave motivation to everyone to find ways of making AD - created the market for botting - created an AD sink that prevents me from putting it into Strongholds instead - created a massive divide between the haves and have-nots, leading to a ridiculous amount of party kicks and unbalanced PVP
Comments
Soon to be a bad moba?
http://forum.arcgames.com/neverwinter/discussion/1203664/feedback-2-economic-changes-that-need-to-happen-in-wake-of-this-ad-change-for-a-better-economy?new=1
So why on earth would I trade Zen for AD when there is nothing to buy with AD except the cheap stuff that I can just earn enough AD to buy?
This is your Catch-22 Cryptic. You want to balance the economy? Then created REWARDS that people WANT, that they can SELL IN THE AH.
Then there would be some incentive to want Astral Diamonds. Then if I can't earn it fast enough I'll buy Zen and exchange it. But right now, as someone willing to buy Zen to exchange for AD to buy stuff - why would I? There's nothing interesting to buy.
Get to the root of the economic problem: Make quest rewards BETTER instead of the HAMSTER-ola that barely justifies playing at all because right now I play more for the action than the rewards that I just leave laying on the ground polluting the zone.
[edit: typos]
http://forum.arcgames.com/neverwinter/categories/player-feedback-pc
around, when you don't give a [censored] about any player feedback in there?
devaneio said that with the leadership change he's going to uninstall, and my post was referred to his situation alone.
Where do you and your 12 alts and how you play come into play in all of this?
Please stop lying to us (and yourselves?) that this has anything at all to do with fighting bots.
This is to try to sell more zen.
Which in and of itself is fine and dandy, except for the smoke and mirrors you put up to try to bamboozle the naive.
Bots run the content already.
See the comments about Ghost Stories just for one example.
This will NOT hurt the bots much less stop them.
I saw one moderator say that 1000(s?) of bots are banned daily. A 24 hour chat ban is not a *real* ban. Pay someone just over minimum wage to actually ban / delete bot accounts all day long. If x number of people report spam on an account, that employee could take a quick look at the chat log and if there was indeed 3rd party website advertising, completely delete that account immediately. Not a slap on the wrist chat ban that they laugh at since they have literally hundreds of accounts waiting in the wings to keep the spam flowing.
It might cost you a few shekels up front, but it will keep your players much happier and happy players pay more than unhappy ones so it should come out as a net profit for Cryptic.
I am not a happy player myself at the moment.
Forcing me to play in ways that I do not enjoy - pvp/skirmish/dungeon - is not going to keep me coming back.
I like solo pve and Foundry quests.
Again I ask, why do you hate me so?
PANIC!
>> Okay people you need to calm down. It sounds so much worse
>> than it actually is.
>>
>> You get less AD. YES.
>> The AD you get will skyrocket in Value. YES.
>> Prices will DROP so that players can afford the items. YES.
>>
>> A mount wont cost 4m AD in AH because nobody will be able
>> to buy it and then the seller wont get his AD. So he will
>> lower the price far enough so people can afford it. So
>> instead of 4m maybe it will cost 400k. This wont happen
>> over a night, but I think this is the long term goal.
>>
>> And I think they will adjust all vendor/zen prices after time.
ambisinisterr wrote:
> I love when people understand how economies work and understand
> that currency, like any other object, has a supply and demand
> value attached to it.
And I love it, when people unterstand how economies work and
fail to understand that fixed price items (required for upgearing),
unlike any other object, are intangible to supply and demand
value attached to it.
They are an immovable motor. They influence the value of diamonds while not being influenced by them. So they are a factor, they still are one of the plates of the scale. If it becomes harder to acquire wealth but prices stay the same, then progression is made slower.
Still not going to be able to earn as much money as I did with my 11 toons though. And unlike the leadership armies, I actually play and gear all my toons... so that income loss is brutal... understandable but brutal.
1. Supply and demand means nothing when GMOPs, Wards, mount advancing, etc. all have set prices. The equivalent cost of these items just went up exponentially. And who has the time to play 6 hours a day for an entire week just to get a single GMOP? I need dozens of these things if I want my character to not suck!
2. Since when is 3000 AD considered 'signficant'?? You devs do realize that it costs MILLIONS of AD just to create a character that can actually play the high level content with a degree of enjoyment?
3. You aren't going to change the bots. They'll adapt. All you did was ruin the experience for the casual player whose only chance of even getting a 2000 gear score required to access the epic dungeons was by having a handful of alts farming Leadership. The bots aren't going anywhere, they'll find an exploit. But players have a lot of MMO options right now and I think you'll see them leave this game in droves. Mod 6 was bad, but this is catastrophic IMO.
4. Since when is Leadership not part of the game? It's an in-game game and has taken a lot of time and investment by a lot of people.
5. Cryptic did this to themselves and we're paying the price. They should have never allowed 50 character slots, they should have an in-game GM monitoring chat and banning botters and goldspammers, they should have a 3rd party product monitoring botting.
6. PVP sucks and it's about to get worse. I don't want to be forced to play it. I want to earn AD by playing, but playing EVERYTHING! Why are you not giving me AD in Well of Dragons, EE, Sharandar, Icewindale and Dread Ring? You created a story and campaigns and removed incentive to play them.
7. You want to fix the economy? Then get rid of the REASONS why people farm AD. I don't want AD. I want to upgrade my character gear score so I can access higher level content. I only run Leadership to pay for refining and GMOPs. Get rid of GMOPs and 1% success rates altogether. Have artifacts require the other Greater Marks that we can actually find in quests. Or create a weeklong Leadership task that creates Account Bound purple refining.
8. How can my guild upgrade Stronghold if it takes 40 million just for the guild hall and now none of us have any money? And the lvl 70 gear we farm can't be sold on the AH for AD because nobody wants it? You added an amazing addition to this game and then cut it's tail off right behind the ears a month later.
9. And you're not fooling anyone. The bots are the cover, but driving people to paying you more money is the reason. But why would we pay for something that's buggy, laggy, the queue's are awful, we can't progress our character and you've removed 75% of the dungeons and skirmishes over the past several months? I would pay for MORE content, but I'm not paying for LESS content. You took away 11 dungeons! And there's NO skirmishes available from lvl 60-69! How is that providing incentive to me to sign up for VIP? AD bonus was the best incentive there and you've taken that away immediately after launching VIP! That shows you are doing a knee-jerk reaction here that wasn't thought out even a month ago. And that lack of confidence in your long-term plan is what's going to drive away 80% of your players.
i will tell you what gonna happen
1. there will be bot army invading pvp que and stay still in the campfire that will ruin PVP like hell
2. there will be still praying bot for AD
3. if you make HE or foundry that reward AD there is high possibilty this will be exploit by bot
4. your playerbase population will suffer severely and make stronghold that need a lot of player to work become fail
if Crytic really gonna do this.. at least make AD income from PVP cannot be exploit by bot, here my suggestion
make AD income from PVP depend on contribution
Automatically get 2,000 AD for each of the first two matches is great
each kill = 25 AD max 5 times on the same toon
each assist = 5 AD max 5 times on the same toon
the winning team got 1.5x or 2x bonus reward AD not include 2000 AD for first two matches
please think a formula that will not gonna make bot army invade pvp que
Did someone said that only 1 toon per account will get AD from first 2 dung/skirm/pvp?
AND rest of them get NOTHING?
Again, thank you for the feedback. We are listening to what you say, and we're watching data. All of this information together will continue to help us make positive changes to the game.
Artifact gear:
- killed the AH. Nobody wants a lvl 70 green belt.
- gave motivation to everyone to find ways of making AD
- created the market for botting
- created an AD sink that prevents me from putting it into Strongholds instead
- created a massive divide between the haves and have-nots, leading to a ridiculous amount of party kicks and unbalanced PVP