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Astral Diamond Changes

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  • tomiotartomiotar Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 227 Arc User
    Cryptic has the most agressive shuting down strategy I had ever seen (Ive been playing MMORPGs since more than 10 years ago), after what they did on Mod6 to kick out casual players from the game, now they do this just a lil after Mod7, first setting insane AD cost to upgrade SH and inmediatly after removing the biggest AD source for the remaining players. They truely want to close this game, when I was hopping that they will eventually run out of ideas on how to make the people stop playing and just wait for people to leave they make this master plan to speed up everything. I was hopping the game last like 1 more year before it get completly depleted of players but now I dont think is going to last 3 months after they implement this.
  • delitusdelitus Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 25 Arc User
    What the hell are dummy's trying to KILL THE GAME. how hell are we going to make money. AD from leadership is the one of the only reasons people by multiple toons. every time we turn around you keep trying to do something to mess up the game. you did good with stronghold and made the game more fun, but now this everyone will drop the game in a heart beat. i know i will !!!!!!!!! who else with me? if you like your AD from leadership everyone raise so hell about this.
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  • delitusdelitus Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 25 Arc User
    no the prices won't drop very much
  • reiwulfreiwulf Member Posts: 2,687 Arc User
    Thanks for clarifying, goatshark. I really hope that solo players will have ways to earn enough ad for their own progression.
    Many authors are also expecting to see some foundry news after 6 weeks of it being down with nothing of information.
    2e2qwj6.jpg
  • daddyman5565daddyman5565 Member Posts: 23 Arc User
    Beginning with the introduction of MOD 6 there has been one constant stream of bad decisions after another from you developers. While some of the changes to AD are somewhat welcome, the removal of AD from leadership is one of the stupidest by far to date. Once again, the casual solo player takes a massive hit. You are stressing dungeons, skirmishes and such - in other words, GROUP activities - as the primary source of AD revenue. With the removal of AD from leadership, you have dried up a major portion of my revenue stream. Your answer to that, based on your introduction of this misguided idea, is that I should buying my AD with Zen, because you guys aren't smart enough to fix your game and thwart the bots. Regretting that I spent real money on your thinly disguised subscription model. Had I known this was coming, I could have saved myself the additional monetary grief of ditching NW.
  • davejustdavedavejustdave Member Posts: 86 Arc User
    goatshark said:

    Hey folks, thank you for all of the feedback. I know this is a very touchy subject and everyone feels very passionately about it, which is why I wanted to get information out as soon as I could. I'm going to try and clear up a little confusion, and let you know what we're currently evaluating.

    • These changes are on Preview right now. They will be going live next week.
    • The bonus AD earned from the first 2 runs of something (like a dungeon) do NOT count towards the other AD cap. So your first 2 dungeon runs will earn you 3000 AD each. On top of that, you'll be earning AD from a separate pool based on what you ran. This other pool is what has the daily cap of 7200 AD. For your 3rd+ runs, you'll only be earning from that separate pool.
    • We will be watching what these AD changes do to the average player's holdings. Based off of that data we will be re-evaluating all of our AD pricing in the game.
    • As I'd mentioned, we are looking into solutions for the solo player to get more AD. I hope to have news there very soon.
    • We will be evaluating leadership tasks to make sure the required times and rewards make sense.
    • We are also looking into what we can do to make it less painful AD-wise for alts. I really don't want people to feel that the only way to have the resources necessary to alt is to make a leadership army.

    Again, thank you for the feedback. We are listening to what you say, and we're watching data. All of this information together will continue to help us make positive changes to the game.
    Have you ever played the game?
    Have you ever been to look at the bot hot spots (BotSpots?) that are regularly reported?
    Do you realise that if bots can do Ghost Stories then they can do most of the dungeons and skirmishes?

  • viperwitch23viperwitch23 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 205 Arc User
    goatshark said:

    Wait
    Did someone said that only 1 toon per account will get AD from first 2 dung/skirm/pvp?
    AND rest of them get NOTHING?

    The AD gains are per character, not per account.
    MAKE LEV 70 blue gear like cruel belt of smiting salvageable
    So people can play and get by by playing content
    Even if lev 70 green gear to give 50-100 AD

  • wlinazwlinaz Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 150 Arc User
    goatshark said:

    ...
    Future Changes
    Beyond addressing the group content listed above, and the botting issue of Leadership, we are also looking at ways for the solo player to earn this time currency. We are evaluating content like Heroic Encounters and Campaigns as likely places to make adjustments, while watching the above changes to make sure they're having the desired effect on group play.

    We believe we can make the Astral Diamond economy much more stable and uniform for all players. Want to earn AD? Play Dungeons, Skirmishes, and PvP whenever you have time! Check back soon for more information on future additional AD sources.
    ...

    This is not just a "solo" issue. You guys expect us to choose between AD running dungeons, skirmishes and pvp or farming
    required stuff for SH and running SH dragons. There is a need to add AD at the very least to SH quests.

    How about putting some thought into these so-called "Future Changes" before flipping the switch this time?
    image
  • mrwilsonvamrwilsonva Member Posts: 103 Arc User
    As a XBOX Live Player, I can not wait for the Changes to come to our version of the GAME!!!!!
    vr7gyg.jpg
    Larua TR | Thomas GWF | Lizard Wizard CW
  • tomiotartomiotar Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 227 Arc User
    hahahahahahaahahahaahaha


    Im freacking laughing out Loud for real, they actually put an 15% charge reward after announcing this.



    hahahahahahaahah now I finnally having some fun with this game.
  • foxxy#4211 foxxy Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 563 Arc User
    Hi. Its great for the casual player that has less than 2 hours to play everyday, but this change in AD will effect in a not good way the other players that usually play for more than 2 hours. -> This is less AD generation. I guess as you guys promise we will be doing 24k + AD everyday is fine.

    Now, about leadership: Since we are not going to generate AD from this source, allow us to run any task we want more than 3 times, just like any other proffesion, which you can have 9 same tasks running. And add more experience given by the profession tasks. 80/ 160/ 240/ 250 experience fro profession now that AD is gone won't be seen well. The items/ tasks left are useless, except for the one that gives 3 random resonance stones.
  • killzoneexkillzoneex Member Posts: 94 Arc User
    goatshark said:

    Hey folks, thank you for all of the feedback. I know this is a very touchy subject and everyone feels very passionately about it, which is why I wanted to get information out as soon as I could. I'm going to try and clear up a little confusion, and let you know what we're currently evaluating.

    • These changes are on Preview right now. They will be going live next week.
    • The bonus AD earned from the first 2 runs of something (like a dungeon) do NOT count towards the other AD cap. So your first 2 dungeon runs will earn you 3000 AD each. On top of that, you'll be earning AD from a separate pool based on what you ran. This other pool is what has the daily cap of 7200 AD. For your 3rd+ runs, you'll only be earning from that separate pool.
      .
    How does ANY of this help with GMOP and Coalescent costs? At 100K and 500K each, even if you gave 50K a day it's still puts things out of reach for players.
  • reiwulfreiwulf Member Posts: 2,687 Arc User
    he just said that they will revise the prices for fixed price items. that includes c wards.
    2e2qwj6.jpg
  • tinead51tinead51 Member Posts: 305 Arc User
    R.I.P. Leadership armies. Having 20+ alts doesn't seem so appealing these days. I'm really not smirking, much, honest...
  • jerilynjerilyn Member Posts: 9 Arc User
    I will think fondly of Neverwinter when I am playing anyone of the 50 other MMO's that don't have such a ridiculously abusive free to play model.

    I usually only play Subscription based MMO's precisely because I don't like dealing with this kind of money grabbing game design. I think I will go back to that policy.
  • edited September 2015
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  • falseempfalseemp Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 16 Arc User
    goatshark said:


    Leadership
    As you may remember, we recently disabled the ability to use the Leadership profession on Gateway. This was due to an extreme number of bots generating far too much AD, and creating havoc with the AD economy. By disabling the profession on Gateway, we were able to reduce this artificially inflated number. Unfortunately, botters found a way around this fix. As we looked into the data, and as we analyzed what we could do to fix this exploit, we came to the conclusion that the way to stop the botters was to remove AD from the Leadership profession. There will still be a few sources in there, but nothing that botters can use to continue breaking the economy. In some cases, AD was replaced with extra XP, but by and large, AD was straight- up removed from the profession. We know this will be frustrating for those who were not exploiting, but the downside of leaving AD in the profession was too severe. Once this work is done, Leadership will be re-enabled on Gateway. Remember, we want players to receive Astral Diamonds for the time they spend actively playing the game, so (beyond the exploit) it didn't really make sense to have something that runs in the background as a major source of this currency.

    Leadership, while no longer a major source of AD, is still a good source for XP, Gold, and loot items. All of these things are valuable to regular players, but less so to botters.

    Suggestion, remove AD as you plan, but add in something else otherwise professions are pointless, something that you can get with leadership but needs you to play to cash in. Something like AD chests which you get and can open with keys you get by doing missions. The rate would need to be right so you could open all you can get in a day with reasonable play. As the botters don't play this means us players can still get AD from leadership, but the botters can't.

    Please note,

    I don't do leadership for XP, all my alts are level 70, so once in a blue moon I get a small (normally pointless) bonus.

    I don't do leadership for Gold, it has little worth when you already have hundreds.

    And as for the loot items, they are just too random and normally again worthless.

    I do leadership for AD, I need GMOPs and at the rates you give for the other categories and my limited available time to play they will take months each and you need may may of them once you get to the higher level.



  • mattsacremattsacre Member Posts: 330 Arc User
    I love the announcement chain, Bots are causing a problem with AD...yeh bots..so we are taking leadership from gateway..those evil nasty bots. But don't worry! You can do everything in game, we are just fighting those nasty bots!

    When it's pointed out that there is already a bot problem in game, and it will be even worse now, they announced "oh no, theer isn't a bot problem in the game, we are watching, no fears we see all!"

    Then a "see no bots in game, nothing to see here move along" when people start posting proof of the in game problem.

    Then when they are asked will leadership ever be back on gate......"chirp chirp crickets"

    Then when players start talking about maybe it's just a AD nerf, they denigh that, it's those evil bots don't you know.

    Then they announce a "stay tuned! EXCITING changes are coming". tripe.

    Then "well sorry to say, but yes there is a AD problem, and we are going to have to nerf professions."

    Then "but don't worry! we are going to boost it for dungeoneers and skirmishers and pvpers! It's going to be great!"

    When the rage starts its "your looking at it wrong...it's better! trust us! It's not us it's you, you are just seeing it wrong"
    When players do the very basic math and point out that their very post shows a lower AD/d they then say "oh we are lowering static AD costs...TRUSSTTT USSS!"

    Yeh, we don't trust you. You have been proven to talk corpspeak which is nothing close to truth. We know that if you drop the price on x,y,z you are going to add N that we are going to need now. You are unable to be transperant, jeez, it's in your name CRYPTIC. You can never resist some lame hurdle for us to cope with, so sorry, soo, so sorry, but we don't believe you.
  • lorddemonragelorddemonrage Member Posts: 33 Arc User
    Still not enough. I'm pretty sure the prior dev team considered taking our diamonds out of leadership and they came to the same conclusion that everyone else has stated. Leadership farming has been factored into every facet of the game that either requires diamonds or zen. everything from RP geenration, to artifacts, even upgrading enchants. To pull out the foundation that leadership created is just suicidal for the games economy. here's the break down of my ad generation:

    1 got 5 characters: GWF HR DC TR SW.

    4 of them have 20+ leadership. GWF DC TR and SW

    Currently i actively play with GWF and HR, SW got shelved because of how it was "fixed" but never really fixed. DC i got to level 60 because i wanted the artifact. TR i got to 60 but had such a bad experience a few years ago I shelved him, plus the leveling grind imo is still not worth it. So my only ad generators are 4 characters. each can do:

    3 x 1600RAD quests maybe 2 x times a day.... give or take if i remember to start new ones in time. realistically maybe only once a day.

    3 x 1200RAD quests that is def 2 times a day because it only takes 10 hours.

    so at best thats 8400 x 2 which is 18650. with invoc lets just even that out to 20000 per character. similar to the proposed changes.... but here's the part where it all comes down: i don't do content with all 4 just 2. cause those 2 are fun, the other 2 are shelved. sadly one of the 2 is my HR and he does not have leadership.

    now with the changes, i go from 4 x 20000k ad generation total, to 2 x generation total. and that 2 x is not considering things like how much time i have to play, length of que times <-*this is the deciding factor that others pointed out. doesnt look good.

    Your proposing to fix everything in one week while it took the last set of devs some indecision and then eventually not taking out leadership, i'm sure this was not the only time it was considered, just the first time it left your companies doors and then to your customers ears.

    currently as it is i only have to play 2 of the four characters i have and still generate diamonds. the proposed changes as it is will force me to play four of four characters, force me to level my TR, and deal with the broken SW class again.

    Oh, and the piece by piece info your giving out, kinda irritating. Much so that i have already started looking at taking my time AND my money elsewhere.
  • matthiasthehun76matthiasthehun76 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,184 Arc User
    edited September 2015
    I have to congratulate Cryptic on making the worst decisions in corporate history ever. Guinness record ready.

    I have lost 5 guilds to that garbage of Mod 6 and the incompetence of those behind it. Now i am in my 6th guild, finally a nice comfy place, but i am 99% sure it will die as well.

    The lack of PVE content, the 3 year old bugs, the utterly bad lag, the power gap, the totally money orientated PVP, the utterly bad strategy behing Stronghold- , letting us, the remaining community pay for the suits bad decisons and the major loss after Mod 6 in the game population- will make the game empty sooner, than expected.

    This makes the richer, old Caturday exploiters even more powerful and new or legit players even poorer. Those old time crooks still sit on tons of millions of AD and got all their gear, us legit and newer players will never catch up to them. For example, how on earth shall we get like 20 GMOP's for a char with a laughable amount of 1500AD?!

    Sad that it is a DnD game, which has to suffer under such 5 year old kid's logic, cause if this was made by an adult, please call him the doctor.

    And please stop lying to us, this has yet again nothing to do with bots, it is simply disgusting GREED, which will fire back!

    Stronghold prices are sky high, AH items sky high and AD income near to zero after this. Who made this plan, surely not a Manstein, if we stay at Ambi's German example.
    The real honest man is honest from conviction of what is right, not from policy.
    Robert E. Lee

    I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.
    Winston Churchill

    The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are.
    David Icke

  • killzoneexkillzoneex Member Posts: 94 Arc User
    reiwulf said:

    he just said that they will revise the prices for fixed price items. that includes c wards.

    You can't do one without the other. No one will bother playing and until we see the whole new pricing model we have to assume things will be bad.
  • rickcase276rickcase276 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,404 Arc User
    Are you also going to be making it possible for solo player guilds to also be able to get things done? The amount of resources needed means that they are not going to get very far by the time the next module comes out.
  • hustin1hustin1 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,467 Arc User
    tomiotar said:

    hahahahahahaahahahaahaha


    Im freacking laughing out Loud for real, they actually put an 15% charge reward after announcing this.



    hahahahahahaahah now I finnally having some fun with this game.

    Wow. Just wow. Talk about blatant.

    There is no way in Hades that I'm going for that. Frankly, I no longer trust the devs. There was a time when I wouldn't question their motives, but now I do. I haven't forgotten what happened at the start of mod 6: the initial official line was that the survivability nerfs were because they wanted the game "in a better place". After countless poking, prodding, and haranguing, they finally admitted that they were to create demand for paladins. In other words, I felt (and feel) lied to. At this point I am truly skeptical of their honesty.
    Harper Chronicles: Cap Snatchers (RELEASED) - NW-DPUTABC6X
    Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO
    Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF
    Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP
    The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
    My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
  • suicidalgodotsuicidalgodot Member Posts: 2,465 Arc User
    edited September 2015
    tomiotar said:

    Cryptic has the most agressive shuting down strategy I had ever seen (Ive been playing MMORPGs since more than 10 years ago), [....]

    ...after years of trying their standard problem fixing technique: "Maybe it'll disappear if we actively ignore it and/or deny its existence".

    Honestly, After several other fat slaps into many a player's face during the last year (DHs, Mod6 difficulty, treatment of player feedback re. that, "Account-wide Pet" promo,...) this one is even more trust-breaking.

    No ramping down, no "buyback", not even minimal attempts to fix the botting issue with any kind of own effort, just slap-wham steamroller the legit, in-game users of the LShip-AD-generation. Meh. Last Cryptic and/or PWE game I'll ever play.
  • nyterazor#4638 nyterazor Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 40 Arc User
    edited September 2015
    If the problem is about bots farming AD, are there other mmo's that have eliminated bots? If so, what are those games and why can't that be implemented onto Neverwinter?
  • vorticanvortican Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 367 Arc User
    goatshark said:


    We will be watching what these AD changes do to the average player's holdings. Based off of that data we will be re-evaluating all of our AD pricing in the game.
    As I'd mentioned, we are looking into solutions for the solo player to get more AD. I hope to have news there very soon.
    We will be evaluating leadership tasks to make sure the required times and rewards make sense.
    We are also looking into what we can do to make it less painful AD-wise for alts. I really don't want people to feel that the only way to have the resources necessary to alt is to make a leadership army.

    Thank you so much! As another poster pointed out, the real grind here is not to generate AD; there are plenty of ways to do that besides a leadership army. The reason endgame players want AD is because it's the only way to level the bajillion artifacts and RP costs are enormous. Casual players like me don't even have a prayer of getting even one to legendary. Please keep this in mind as you consider what to do next. Without the leadership armies, the l33ts won't be able to throw around their millions of AD forever, but they already have top end gear, legendary artifacts, epic mounts, and everything else bought with AD converted to Zen. All the other players, especially new and leveling characters, have no chance to accomplish the same goal, although they will have enough AD to survive.

    I am hopeful that the resulting AD deflation will help out these folks but the gap is so huge that more definitely needs to be done to reduce refinement costs, and that means more than double refinement weekends (although thanks for that as well).

    Have a great day and don't listen to all the whiners. Some of us think this is awesome.

    And now I must return to craft many, many pairs of pants.
  • ashnvfashnvf Member Posts: 294 Arc User

    If the problem is about bots farming AD, are there other mmo's that have eliminated bots? If so, what are those games and why can't that be implemented onto Neverwinter?

    There are no bots in Marvel Heroes. Been a while since I played it but basically there is NO in game currency that you can trade with players and no AH.
  • ayrouxayroux Member Posts: 4,271 Arc User
    goatshark said:

    Hey folks, thank you for all of the feedback. I know this is a very touchy subject and everyone feels very passionately about it, which is why I wanted to get information out as soon as I could. I'm going to try and clear up a little confusion, and let you know what we're currently evaluating.

    • These changes are on Preview right now. They will be going live next week.
    • The bonus AD earned from the first 2 runs of something (like a dungeon) do NOT count towards the other AD cap. So your first 2 dungeon runs will earn you 3000 AD each. On top of that, you'll be earning AD from a separate pool based on what you ran. This other pool is what has the daily cap of 7200 AD. For your 3rd+ runs, you'll only be earning from that separate pool.
    • We will be watching what these AD changes do to the average player's holdings. Based off of that data we will be re-evaluating all of our AD pricing in the game.
    • As I'd mentioned, we are looking into solutions for the solo player to get more AD. I hope to have news there very soon.
    • We will be evaluating leadership tasks to make sure the required times and rewards make sense.
    • We are also looking into what we can do to make it less painful AD-wise for alts. I really don't want people to feel that the only way to have the resources necessary to alt is to make a leadership army.

    Again, thank you for the feedback. We are listening to what you say, and we're watching data. All of this information together will continue to help us make positive changes to the game.
    Please see this post for details on how to do this:
    http://forum.arcgames.com/neverwinter/discussion/1203664/feedback-2-economic-changes-that-need-to-happen-in-wake-of-this-ad-change-for-a-better-economy?new=1

    Aside from that thread. If you guys want to increase the solo players "AD" then you should add AD rewards to module campaign quests.... NOT Raw AD but actual AD. Then a player can farm daily quests for eah module and have progression AND AD.

    Also another 1 would be to increase the salvage amount per epic item from dungeons.


    If you want to increase zen sales. CHANGE "transmutes" so they cost 100 ZEN not 50k AD. Or if you want, since I strongly suspect ZAX will go to <300:1 Set it for 200 zen for a transmute. I guarantee people will do that.

This discussion has been closed.