Not a OP but bring it to 10 seconds would still allow perma bubble. with the right items it won't be hard to generate full ap in 10 seconds or close to.
Just buff encounters to give more shield/temp hp. Shield of faith gives paladin equal footing with GF party defensive wise but it is a daily. So OPs should get something desirable that GFs cannot provide.
Maybe bump shield of faith up to 20 seconds so a paladin can use DP whilst that daily is up in emergencies.
I do have a bubble OP, not a main - it was clearly overpowered, still I'm not sure if this 20sec->6sec is the best available solution. It would be better to skip invincibility and make damages bleed through, so people would still need to pay attention to red spots and mechanics - time reduction is not a bad thing again, just it seems like a tiny bit more than needed, 10-15 second long bubble with ~60-70% protection - just an example - it would still keep the skill viable, but mechanics and cautiousness and healers would be required to be competitive. I could live without the bubble (outside the fact that it seems to make jut another trash skill to avoid), but some boss and miniboss are do hit in the hundreds of thousands, with the orcus debuff/buff bug in the 500k-1M range. So if things stay the same, those "tiny" annoyances would be good to get rid of. (Portal phase of Orcus does not reliably removes the defense/damage debuff if you complete it, and pretty damages from black and blue dragons of DF)
Binding Oath fix is good in my opinion, oath killing things was funny, but clearly an exploit.
Speaking from a completely neutral standpoint - and as a Permabubbledin player myself - I agree that it had to be nerfed. Completing entire T2 Dungeons with no one getting scratched was a problem. How is that a challenge at all?
Not sure about everyone else, but I want to feel like I'm being challenged in a game where the success of a Dungeon or Raid isn't completely hinged on a single class' ability to nullify all damage at all times. Each class should do what they're good at and each player behind the class should learn what makes them useful in the party - not just stand there and spam powers due to invulnerability. Permabubble needed to go to bring challenge back into the game.
Like Amenar said, bubble is supposed to be used in dire situations.
Am I scared I won't be able to rely on permabubble anymore? Of course! But I welcome the challenge.
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I built my Pally knowing this day will come....DR to the MAX. I hardly take damage except from elites and bosses, the bubble was just for emergencies. Not for me but for all those peasants who refuse to move out of the red zones. The Perma Bubbles made my cleric useless and everyone else lazy. Now dungeons should be more funner as everyone has to worry about their own mortality!!!
A path has been killed? Virtuous was already a good path before the Gift of Hast feat was even brought into it, but I agree more damage mitigation would make it even more nice. Faithful might have been killed long ago once they created the Gift of Hate feat. Which is why I'm requesting a buff to the dc in the Faithful tree or just dc healing period.
Without taking heals into account, go righteous, take the first 3 feats from the virtuous and you get what you're asking for and even more: great buff, good dps, nice AP gain, decent heals. Faithfull is still valuable in PvP.
Righteous shoudn't be the only path to take is what I'm saying. Righteous is a beast and I love it for dps and debuffing which is cool, but that's why I have multiple chars. I personally don't care for dmg on my cleric. I just want a really great healer but it sucks that I can't even heal now. I might as well make a healing Paladin regardless of all the time and effort I spent into my cleric. Yes Virtuous is nice but maybe if it wasn't played so lazily I could accept it. Maybe at least provide dmg mitigation for both Virtuous and Faithful. That I could maybe see. Maybe when I'm 3k+ I'll stick with righteous but as far a now I feel like there are no real options for the dc except for what the daily spamming classes along with the pally wants. Maybe I'm just a little stubborn, I could really see Righteous path with Virtuous feats, but still, the point is, I shouldn't have to conform to what everyone else is doing to be a great player or to make it a great class.
What exactly is wrong for faithful as a healing DC? you have damage mitigation from a number of available skills, and you save the party from 1 shots with the faithful capstone
I would say, the way I look at it. It's almost like the faithful build is unneeded, or rather unwanted. A few people said it's still relevant in earlier dungeons which is true. True end game is another matter. Righteous is awesome. Faithful is good and can still be great but it's situational. Seems like the game is so dependent on AP that you HAVE to spec for GoH, missing key feats in other trees. If I wanted to be a DPS/Debuff cleric then screw different trees, righteous all the way. Don't ask for haste. I feel the same about faithful. Some dungeons it's great but for people who like the easy route, they get mad and for not being able to generate AP. People actually get mad about stuff like this and ask me to leave (players outside of guild.) Is the game now in these last few mods that dependent on AP. Yes Faithful has a great capstone but people will continue to shoot it down because of what the other trees (particularly Virtuous) can do. I gotta say there are a lot of situations like these and I know it might not change and I should let go of thinking about it. Playing with guildmates and premades is the best route for me to go. I've always felt like this, even before there was a Gift of Haste. I believe I like the rush and the intensity of healing everyone. Heals over time just doesn't do it for me.
I will speak as a DC player of all 3 paths. First of all, i know these permabubble is one of the real issue and should be solved as soon as possible. However, nerfing GoH until 1% per sec without stacking is an overkill, let me tell you why:
For most of us who had a clear understanding on DC, each path (V/F/R) are designed for different purpose and have different playstyle. I guess none of the devs mained a DC or even tried to advance as a DC from level 1 to level 70 and then from 2k il to 4k il. The experience and playstyle is totally different for each small il progression and we DC have to cope seriously when we pug or even premade with others. In other words, we are everything at anytime. If ppl need heal, we heal, if ppl need dps, we multiply their damage, if ppl need someone to tank, we will go front and try not to die, if ppl need AP, we will try our best to spam some HoT to keep our OP daily up and so on bla bla bla....
Personally, i was a virtuous dc with GoH, pvp faithful tank with GoH and a righteous heavy debuffer with GoH. The magnitude of AP shared as virtuous is totally different as the other two. As the virtuous feat does apply HoT quite frequently, GoH starts to shine as a potential key feature to have for low il party. As a faithful and righteous, though we can still apply GoH, the effect is too small as we dont always have HoT skill in our bar and we dont have extra virtuous feat to trigger it. Thus, GoH only shines in the hand of virtuous. By limiting it to 1% per sec without stacking, virtuous and the other 2 paths have no difference anymore, losing its signature ability. Moreover, the amount of AP gain is drastically reduced until the feat is totally useless. I will give you an example. If i cast 5 HoT skills in 5 sec i should get 5x5%=25% AP, but with the new mechanic i will only get 5% by the time i casted all 5 HoT, even i included another 4% after 4 sec i still only have 9% extra AP. A artifact necklace can do better than 5 points in this feat in terms of triggering condition and AP/s, is this what you all want to see?
Previously, when daily spamming from TR (SE) due to legendary DC sigil, what the devs did is not nerf the sigil but nerf two DC daily until we cant gain AP for 15 sec+. After that, the DC who didnt use their sigil previously has problem to cast their daily while the daily spamming TR are still spamming their daily like nothing. This time i saw the same thing happening again. The way to solve perma bubble from their artifact weapons, DC sigil and AP stat gain is to nerf DC's GoH. Is that related? Yes but only in lower bracket il where OP is still not geared enough. I would like to say, dont consider nerfing DC as the ultimate solution for daily spamming, how many times we are not the culprit but yet we get no bug fixing but more nerfs??
From my perspective, there is some good solutions without hurting DC too much but can also solve the problem of TR SE spamming and OP perma bubble: 1. GoH changed to 0.5% AP/s for 5 sec but allow to stack (no more burst AP but slower steady AP gain per sec) 2. Tune down the duration of OP bubble (you all already did so i will skip) 3. Change the DC sigil active to be double AP gain rate for 10 sec at mythic instead of giving full AP bar per min.
If you really think perma bubble is not because of your luxury snail, hard to grind burning weapon set, mythic DC sigil, gorgon and embellished apparatus mount but is only our DC feat, go on to nerf it as your like and kill the virtuous path. We are not needed for pve as healer over 2.5k il, no more AP buff for team as virtuous so faithful will be more superior in healing that it. If you really want to nerf GoH, go ahead but remember to remove the AP gain penalty on DC dailies which last time you all nerf us without reason. Do not hurt DC anymore when you dont have to, if you need more information abt DC, please ask the devs who mained a DC to go into temple forum to discuss with us, ty!! (though i think this guy not exist)
No, dungeons will be longer with the same lack of rewards and DPS classes doing much less damage. The rewards now need to be improved to make the extra time worth it.
No, dungeons will take the time they had always intended to take. You arn't getting short changed, you were enjoying a free ride. Be glad they arnt going to ask for a return of all the stuff you gained while enjoying that free ride.
I will speak as a DC player of all 3 paths. First of all, i know these permabubble is one of the real issue and should be solved as soon as possible. However, nerfing GoH until 1% per sec without stacking is an overkill, let me tell you why:
For most of us who had a clear understanding on DC, each path (V/F/R) are designed for different purpose and have different playstyle. I guess none of the devs mained a DC or even tried to advance as a DC from level 1 to level 70 and then from 2k il to 4k il. The experience and playstyle is totally different for each small il progression and we DC have to cope seriously when we pug or even premade with others. In other words, we are everything at anytime. If ppl need heal, we heal, if ppl need dps, we multiply their damage, if ppl need someone to tank, we will go front and try not to die, if ppl need AP, we will try our best to spam some HoT to keep our OP daily up and so on bla bla bla....
Personally, i was a virtuous dc with GoH, pvp faithful tank with GoH and a righteous heavy debuffer with GoH. The magnitude of AP shared as virtuous is totally different as the other two. As the virtuous feat does apply HoT quite frequently, GoH starts to shine as a potential key feature to have for low il party. As a faithful and righteous, though we can still apply GoH, the effect is too small as we dont always have HoT skill in our bar and we dont have extra virtuous feat to trigger it. Thus, GoH only shines in the hand of virtuous. By limiting it to 1% per sec without stacking, virtuous and the other 2 paths have no difference anymore, losing its signature ability. Moreover, the amount of AP gain is drastically reduced until the feat is totally useless. I will give you an example. If i cast 5 HoT skills in 5 sec i should get 5x5%=25% AP, but with the new mechanic i will only get 5% by the time i casted all 5 HoT, even i included another 4% after 4 sec i still only have 9% extra AP. A artifact necklace can do better than 5 points in this feat in terms of triggering condition and AP/s, is this what you all want to see?
Previously, when daily spamming from TR (SE) due to legendary DC sigil, what the devs did is not nerf the sigil but nerf two DC daily until we cant gain AP for 15 sec+. After that, the DC who didnt use their sigil previously has problem to cast their daily while the daily spamming TR are still spamming their daily like nothing. This time i saw the same thing happening again. The way to solve perma bubble from their artifact weapons, DC sigil and AP stat gain is to nerf DC's GoH. Is that related? Yes but only in lower bracket il where OP is still not geared enough. I would like to say, dont consider nerfing DC as the ultimate solution for daily spamming, how many times we are not the culprit but yet we get no bug fixing but more nerfs??
From my perspective, there is some good solutions without hurting DC too much but can also solve the problem of TR SE spamming and OP perma bubble: 1. GoH changed to 0.5% AP/s for 5 sec but allow to stack (no more burst AP but slower steady AP gain per sec) 2. Tune down the duration of OP bubble (you all already did so i will skip) 3. Change the DC sigil active to be double AP gain rate for 10 sec at mythic instead of giving full AP bar per min.
If you really think perma bubble is not because of your luxury snail, hard to grind burning weapon set, mythic DC sigil, gorgon and embellished apparatus mount but is only our DC feat, go on to nerf it as your like and kill the virtuous path. We are not needed for pve as healer over 2.5k il, no more AP buff for team as virtuous so faithful will be more superior in healing that it. If you really want to nerf GoH, go ahead but remember to remove the AP gain penalty on DC dailies which last time you all nerf us without reason. Do not hurt DC anymore when you dont have to, if you need more information abt DC, please ask the devs who mained a DC to go into temple forum to discuss with us, ty!! (though i think this guy not exist)
I really agree with this guy on the AP gain. What about making Gift of Haste a passive ability in the powers section? Or is that just overkill? Have it set so that when it's active you generate a small amount of AP every few seconds for your team when it's set to active. Maybe then it's too much, idk. Just an idea.
As a virtuous DC, just tested the gift of haste change and i can say: It is still good. Having 1% ap every sec for 5 secs is more than fine and if the cleric can rotate his healing over time effects well, gift of haste can give 1% ap every sec until the daily bar is filled. It now works similar to devote cleric artifact but not as fast as it. Also, the ap generation from the allies themself added to the haste buff will keep AP for them still filled. So gift of haste is still good in my opinion.
About divine glow: It still doesnt proc weapon enchantments. And the wording for ranks is still the same. Each rank mentions "damage buff". Divine glow doesnt buff damage but damage resistance. And about not stacking while in divinity... well I'm used to what it has always been so didnt get my hopes too high... Also i was expecting more fixes and some kinda buff to some Virtuous feats that are not working well and that i have mentioned for some long in old posts, im tired of having to post if i am being ignored.
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mutjinninjaMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 93Arc User
Speaking from a completely neutral standpoint - and as a Permabubbledin player myself - I agree that it had to be nerfed. Completing entire T2 Dungeons with no one getting scratched was a problem. How is that a challenge at all?
Not sure about everyone else, but I want to feel like I'm being challenged in a game where the success of a Dungeon or Raid isn't completely hinged on a single class' ability to nullify all damage at all times. Each class should do what they're good at and each player behind the class should learn what makes them useful in the party - not just stand there and spam powers due to invulnerability. Permabubble needed to go to bring challenge back into the game.
Like Amenar said, bubble is supposed to be used in dire situations.
Am I scared I won't be able to rely on permabubble anymore? Of course! But I welcome the challenge.
Maybe if the challenge was met with actual rewards. You know, actually desirable things other than salvage. Like..boe insignias, or dropped sets, or like...anything other than what we have now really. What the team fails to grasp is that challenging content will only be done if there is an equal reward for completing it. Not a .005% chance to get a +5 ring or artifact. That can hardly be called a fair chance at a reward.
So if you want to challenge us, don't just beat the living hell out of our toons; give us some compensation for running the paltry endgame offerings that you left us with after stealing our dungeons away (yes I'm still bitter over the devs actually taking away the endgame and never giving it back)
First off...i have only played healadin so my beef isn't that you broke how I play the game. Its that you left it this way for a WHOLE YEAR not working as intended???
IIRC, DC's had AP gain blocked while some dailies are active back in mod 5, not in mod 6 when AP gain was introduced. And the GoH nerf would have stopped a great many paladins from being able to permabubble, but you are correct Jazzfong, the haste nerf would not have stopped the good/geared paladins from doing their own permabubble, which is why they nerfed the uptime on bubble and nerfed haste at the same time.
The number of dailies really was getting too high, paladins aside. And no, haste was not the only ability at fault here. But like with the lostmauth nerf creating a level playing field to balance DPS on, haste is at a level where the devs can see what changes can be made to AP generation in general. I agree that virtuous could use a couple tweaks now to make it a bit more unique again.
Guild - The Imaginary Friends We are searching for slave labor, will pay with food from our farm!
Ya, none of the changes put on Preview today should make it to live. They are too harsh and destroy CW and Paladin.
Yea totally agree, this is total overkill, im sorry but this is completely unacceptable for it to go this far, their should be a grandfather claus in this game to where if you leave something like this for more then X amount of time it becomes grandfathered into the game and cannot be changed, im sick of spending money and time, now I will just spend time to get ad and turn that into zen without spending money, im tired of going threw this where you force us to spend more money to keep up with your content, or else, so again a lot of customers are left wondering a few things..........
Speaking from a completely neutral standpoint - and as a Permabubbledin player myself - I agree that it had to be nerfed. Completing entire T2 Dungeons with no one getting scratched was a problem. How is that a challenge at all?
Not sure about everyone else, but I want to feel like I'm being challenged in a game where the success of a Dungeon or Raid isn't completely hinged on a single class' ability to nullify all damage at all times. Each class should do what they're good at and each player behind the class should learn what makes them useful in the party - not just stand there and spam powers due to invulnerability. Permabubble needed to go to bring challenge back into the game.
Like Amenar said, bubble is supposed to be used in dire situations.
Am I scared I won't be able to rely on permabubble anymore? Of course! But I welcome the challenge.
But what kind of gameplay experience is the playerbase as a whole actually looking for?
If I wanted challenging with a chance for insta-death at every turn, I'd go play something like Path of Exile or a rogue-like. Do the players actually *want* a challenge? Do they *want* to face death and failure on a regular basis? I submit to you that the state of the game suggests, as an aggregate: no, they don't. Maybe what they want is to feel empowered and awesome and HAMSTER. And badasses don't die. Badasses don't get one-shot, especially. They do want to be a meaningful part of something--so while I'll tell them to get used to it, I understand why newer, lower level players might lament that they often see the dungeons they can do turned into a "chase after the level 70 that destroys everything before you can even react" experience.
I am not looking for a game where I have to work hard to succeed on a regular basis. Ultimately, I don't mind a bubble-nerf in principle. I can't always enjoy how good I am at being competent when it doesn't really matter.
But it's also going to make earning my rAD all the more difficult: my AP DCs could know that 90% of the time having an OP in the party meant we're going to succeed no matter what because the two of us combined could overcome nearly any amount of weakness and idiocy from the other three; or any time I see we've got an AP+bubbledin combo in a party on any character, I knew it was very unlikely that my time was about to be wasted. Without an OP, I have to actually look at everyone's ilvl and gear and stats to get a feel for what they might be able to achieve, because there's a lot less idiocy that a GF can compensate for (and a hell of a lot more that a bad GF can add). Failure rates are much higher, and failure is frustrating, and unenjoyable, and does not make me think the game is worth money. Of course, the consequences of the new queue system, the spawning issues that you have still only fixed for CN when it affects all dungeons, and the game's REQUIREMENT that I be efficient about AD generation if I'm to actually get anything or do anything other than screw around for HAMSTER and giggles, means I'm almost never running epic content these days. It's all about doing around 20 instances of Cloak Tower/ToS and invoking. Why? Because it works. Because I don't routinely fail because the party's dumb, or weak, or don't know how to play their classes, or get disconnected, or decide to abandon ship on the group before even I do, etc. etc. etc. I don't run epic party content because the game at this point is designed to actively discourage me from it. There are so many better alternatives out there to get what I want that it's laughable. We keep telling you over and over and over and over and over and over and over again: give us actual, meaningful rewards from doing these things. But you keep ignoring this over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.
Many days I don't even know why I play. It's no longer relevant that I actually do epic content at all, so why am I bothering trying to be HAMSTER at doing it? One way or another, it's definitely not so I can be challenged and frustrated when I could get the same end result much more easily and much more quickly from readily available alternatives.
I think I'm trying to become more powerful so that I can get less frustrated by weak or bad players. If I become powerful enough, eventually I'll be able to remove the frustration and waste-of-my-time-failure factor from content all by myself. Because I would like for there to be something meaningful and good and "epic" to do...but there isn't! Not until you're 3k+ and can carry every party through everything. At which point...what exactly are you trying to get from those runs, again?
Tested GoH. Work as described: 5% over 5 seconds. Now a rigtheous with GoH works +/- as well as a virtuous with this change: no need to have a virtuous dc anymore. Btw there was another DC with GoH close to me: GoH stacks (2x on the GoH icon). Now improve Unbreakable devotion and - why not - rework cleansing fire to provide mitigation instead of GoH\Heals to make this path viable again.
I'll probably have time to get on and poke at this tomorrow. I'm considering trying out AC righteous for max power buffing/debuffing to see what exactly is different on test.
Did any DC ever have time to actually test to see if hastening light actually works when selected in artifact offhand?? I feel with this change it might be worth double checking to see if it's working as intended. I stopped using it when someone brought up that it was bugged and didn't see much difference from anyone in my parties.
Relmyna - AC/DC Righteous + Haste| Nadine - CW MoF (working on it)|Buffy - GF SM Tact| Hrist - Justice Tankadin|Healadin (Wannabe Tank)| Lena -MI Sabo TR (Farmer) | Jeska - GWF SM Destroyer (Farmer) | Maggie - HR PF Trapper (Wannabe DPS)
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I'll never retrace my steps.
Change divine glow so it does a better heal, but doesn't apply a heal over time. If you leave it then virtuous will be a 3 tier only choice as pretty much all DC use DG so all of them can leverage the new GoH equally well. If you change it so it just applies a heal then virtuous could be the path that can maintain GoH best at least.
Is the Virtuous capstone still bugged in that the HoT aren't doing double healing?
Change divine glow so it does a better heal, but doesn't apply a heal over time. If you leave it then virtuous will be a 3 tier only choice as pretty much all DC use DG so all of them can leverage the new GoH equally well. If you change it so it just applies a heal then virtuous could be the path that can maintain GoH best at least.
Are you going to change bastion and divine SB and healing word to not give a HoT as well? It isn't hard to work a HoT into a rotation no matter what spec you play. any changes to virtuous need to be made to the feats
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Change divine glow so it does a better heal, but doesn't apply a heal over time. If you leave it then virtuous will be a 3 tier only choice as pretty much all DC use DG so all of them can leverage the new GoH equally well. If you change it so it just applies a heal then virtuous could be the path that can maintain GoH best at least.
Is the Virtuous capstone still bugged in that the HoT aren't doing double healing?
Still bugged, cleansing fire is also bugged as not procced by all damaging encounters.
Yes the virtuous hots are still broken, and yes hastening light still does exactly nothing either on it's own or with the off hand bonus. Also cleanse is still in it's sorry duct tape fix shape despite reassurances back when they broke it would be looked at the next time DCs got a pass over. Seeing as all they got was a nerf notice tacked on to a pally issue I guess it's safe to assume that pass over will not come anytime soon.
Oh and also since AP gain is the issue of the day Chains of Blasing Light and Searing Light still give AP in their divine forms.
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aesculaepiusMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 69Arc User
Speaking from a completely neutral standpoint - and as a Permabubbledin player myself - I agree that it had to be nerfed. Completing entire T2 Dungeons with no one getting scratched was a problem. How is that a challenge at all?
Not sure about everyone else, but I want to feel like I'm being challenged in a game where the success of a Dungeon or Raid isn't completely hinged on a single class' ability to nullify all damage at all times. Each class should do what they're good at and each player behind the class should learn what makes them useful in the party - not just stand there and spam powers due to invulnerability. Permabubble needed to go to bring challenge back into the game.
Strummy, I agree with your sentiment, but disagree with your conclusion. Since you have the challenging duty of being the community liaison, I don't envy you this task. Taken in a vacuum, this change wouldn't be all that dire. However, as others have noted, this is a pattern. We, as players, invest a lot of time (and in some cases, money) in building up our characters. We ask for bug fixes and get new content, while the bugs remain. Then, just as soon as we get a character to a place where we can play the game again, the world is upended. As a DC, I've been baffled by the fact that I can't heal as fast as a potion. I couldn't do it with the full Sharandar set, and the Heal spell from D&D was basically converted to the daily Lay on Hands for a Paladin. DCs are some of the worst healers in the game, and nobody asked for them to be in a party. Why would they, when damage is minimal, healing is below that of a potion, and we can't even do anything special. Hell, we're the only clerics in D&D who can't even turn undead! Some people have invested a ton of time and money into making "Tank DCs." They do this to prove a point - that enough money will make any character a quasi-tank - but most of us don't have that kind of time/money to invest.
We're encouraged to have up to 5 characters for free - so we have to either work on one character as our focus, or spend hours most of us don't have trying to level the characters' gear so we don't become so underpowered that we can't survive the content and/or people don't want us in their parties because we're being hauled along. Swapping GS with IL only changed what people ask for in the queues. IL is nearing 3K for demands for most PUGs.
Then there's the whole damage increase from enemies at level 70. I used to be able to solo "Need for Mead" on even my weak SW. Now the only one who can solo it is my OP, with his bubble up. It takes forever given his lack of DPS, but at least he can finish it. My CW, DC, SW, and TR all die. I've used respect tokens on all of them following various builds on the forums, but nothing I do makes even that content possible. Even now, I routinely get one-shot on every character but my OP.
When I first rolled my OP, I had no idea what different dailies would be. Once I saw the bubble in action, I realized why people didn't want me in their parties, and I had to respect so that I had it. And I had to swap my DC so he had Gift of Haste, because people (still) didn't want a healer who was less effective than their potions and couldn't keep them alive.
The problem that Cryptic seems to have is that it doesn't balance content for those of us who are still trying to level our gear. Not all of my characters have attained purple artifact gear yet, because - again - it's hard to get people to bring along a warlock who's leveling his gear and risks success of the run. It is maddening to run Tiamat (when enough people decide to queue up) and fail because there isn't enough DPS. I will grant you that it's just as maddening that four people pretty much do all of the DPS in a win run, but again, the balance is missing. Why do so many people use Sigil of the Devoted? Because AP leads to dailies, and dailies are how PCs stay alive. I try to run ToS without a bubble paladin and those phase spiders take out the whole team within seconds. That's not fun. It's not challenging. It's maddening.
I spent months building up my Sharandar set on my DC. It was hard to do, and the benefits of it made me as desired as a DC ever was for healing. Then you upped the levels, and my set became less effective than green gear at 61. Blue gear at 62 was more effective than what I had spent months grinding to achieve, and it could be had for less than 500 AD per piece on the AH. When I leveled my paladin, every time I hit a new level range I just hit up the AH for blue gear. Why bother with seals at all? Who cares about quest gear? Someone's found stuff I can use right away and the game is so flooded with it I can buy it and do better than surviving.
I waited, and I waited, letting my Sharandar gear sit taking up my bank space, for some way to "upgrade" it or trade it in for some new set. I finally sacrificed it to the salvage altar during the last Double AD event, because it was clear to me that I was never going to get any kind of recognition for the time I spent getting that gear.
Then you introduced the ultimate in pay-to-win: VIP. I signed up like almost everyone else did, too. Only two of my characters had the full Lathander set, and since traps suddenly became extremely deadly, it was the only way to be safe. Except that I ground for three months (seems to be a magic number) before I got my first two Eyes. Two more months of grinding never yielded a third, and I finally gave up. But, I did give up two months of my life to get the first two Eyes. And players gain the set bonus for $8.50 a month: no farming, no leveling of gauntlets, and no grinding required.
So you bring in the OP class. It's been missing since launch (along with a druid) but, like all new classes, it is dramatically overpowered. The Oath of Protection made it the OP OP OP. But while it felt like a cheat, I wasn't dying, and with an AP DC, I was able to keep the party alive. People thanked me at the end of a dungeon run. I didn't have to spend months of time or vast sums of money to be competitive. And you're not only going to take that away from me, but you're going to make the whole "protection" thing a joke. Even with the bubble, I still go down in epic Demigorgon (and my protection with it). The game was fun again, for a while.
Then you changed the AD system. I know that people were abusing it, but you didn't reduce the effect, you virtually eliminated it. For people like me who work days, I could do Gateway from work. I can't log in and play content at work. So, I run dungeons and skirmishes. If I'm lucky, I can run one of each per night, since I can't live in the game. So I have to pick which character I'll have make the AD. Thanks to all of the nerfs already done to my characters, the only reasonable choices I have are OP and DC. I can't compete on DPS with any of my others, and the three things needed for any group are DC/Tank/DPS/DPS/DPS.
The reaction here is no different than in the past: we get long-winded explanations as to what went wrong, and then the whole world is shifted from under us. You don't make changes incrementally - you alter the entire game mechanics until people find a new way to survive. Yes, survive. All the truly OP characters will continue to be so with their Rank 12 enchants and mythic gear. The rest of us will struggle and beg them to come on runs with us so we can survive while the people who play all day try to find new combos or hacks or cheats.
Looking at balance again: I have a level 70 cleric. At that rank (pretending it's not egregiously ridiculous in D&D) I should almost be a demigod. I cast my daily Hammer at a level 71 ogre in the guild stronghold. He's not even a boss. He loses at most 1 bar of health, probably less. My OP comes in, drops a Divine Judgment on him, and he loses four to seven bars. My TR stealth-stabs him for that much. I am the divine conduit for my deity, and I can't even do 1/20th of the full-health damage to an ogre using my most powerful spell. Wearing epic 70 gear, he can hit me for 1/4 of mine. Flame Strike does better damage, and it's AoE. Almost every monster is immune to knockback, even though they're up against the (supposed) mightiest power of a god. This is supposed to be fun?
Then there are the class-specific artifacts. It makes absolute sense that you don't want me to refine them... after all I can reclaim them. So it's not hard to see an endless cycle of people claiming and dumping them into leveling other gear. Here's where (again) I'm punished. Either I don't level the gear, or when I get a usable artifact (like Bruenor's Helm) I have to put my artifact in the bank or toss it, because it's not salvageable. Wouldn't a simpler (and less punishing) solution be that you can't refine one of these items until it's, say, level 20? Sure, you can reclaim it for free, but you still have to level it to get a fraction of the input back. But as it is with all things Neverwinter now, it's binary. All the way or zero. Here, it's zero. It's my Sharandar armor all over again. Sure, I spent months (over a year now) refining my CW Artifact, but now that I have something else I want to use, I can get nothing out of it, since it can't be refined.
I could go on, but in the TL;DR world, most people stopped reading this paragraphs ago. You could take a measured approach and rather than relying on your own testing alone, scale things back say 25% at a time and let them be for a month or so while people adjust to the changes. You could do as others have suggested, and make the powers not refill while in use. (You do this with AP while Hallowed Ground is cast - unlike any other daily - so you obviously know how to code it). In the simplest of words, you could try more subtle shifts and let your player base decide if you've done enough.
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kathryntheredMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 13Arc User
You guys are a bunch of idiots. DP down from 20 to 6 seconds? This makes the class absolutely worthless. OPs have HAMSTER DPS, why on earth would anyone play one now over a GF? Why would anyone want one in a group over a GF? Since there is simply no reason whatsoever, that should tell you that you went way overboard.
You are right, people don't realize they did a 70% nerf because so many people are screaming nerf instead of trying to balance. They did not stop there, they nerfed 2 other dailies by 50%. The paladin was torn up, chewed up and spit out.
First, thanks for sharing your thought process and potential solutions. I think this is a good start despite the fact that I have a 3.3k bubble I like to play. I think this will bring back a lot of strategy and tactics that have been lacking.
Second, I'll be curious to see if you're willing to tweak these changes as you get feedback. My gut tells me this might be too big a nerf and you need to tweak some, but not much. Additionally, I see this as potentially affecting pugs and smaller guilds more. I don't see this affecting me or my guild as we are higher il and more coordinated in our tactics. It'll be interesting to see how the rest adapt...
Finally if you are doing this , then you seriously need to consider nerfing t2 mobs so they don't do 200-300k dmg per hit and one shot everyone...that gets old fast...
My biggest complaint with DC Gift of Haste change is the inability to really test it. Since we can't see our target's AP; it relies on cooperation from two people to test it; which is really difficult for players on Preview server.
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kwsapphireMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 671Arc User
edited April 2016
First, I am shocked that such a hard nerf is coming for the Paladin shield dailies, but NO ATTENTION is being given to Prism. Prism is the single most broken power in the game, and I've seen Prism Paladins not only trivialize content, but also bring the server to a grinding halt. How did the bubble warrant a nerf and Prism doesn't?
(Edit) Someone is telling me Prism was already nerfed, but if so, I missed those patch notes. (/edit)
Second, Gift of Haste now seems totally useless. As someone said, I can grant 1% per second. I am supposed to be happy with this? I am going from being able to generate roughly ~50 AP in a few seconds, to taking nearly a minute to do the same? AP gen has been reduced to 10% of its prior value?! That's ludicrous. Why would I even stay in this feat tree, now? I don't mind a slight nerf, but this makes the entire tree seem utterly pointless.
And back to the paladin nerfs, the three best dailies are also mostly useless.
Soooooo, when are yall coming out with Druids? Because goodness knows if my husband and I are going to want to play our OP and DC anymore..
The main issue I have with drastically changing the dynamic of the "Bubble Paladin" & "Haste Cleric" is how it will effect parties. The great thing about these two specific builds is that it helped everyone in the NeverWinter community play together. It didn't matter that your gear score wasn't up to 3k yet. Having these characters in your party ment you had a buffer. I honestly do not want to go back to the days when, if you didn't have a certain gear score, you were kicked out immediately.
Haste clerics & bubble Paladins made dungeon groups so much more relaxed & enjoyable for everyone. Rather than having every artifact and peice of gear being inspected the moment you arrive in a dungeon, you just grabbed some dps and went for it. All of my characters have benefitted from the coupling. It's much easier for lower dps to find a group & improve their gear.
I really REALLY really hope this is just an April fools day joke & we're not heading back towards item level/gear score controlled parties.
First, I am shocked that such a hard nerf is coming for the Paladin shield dailies, but NO ATTENTION is being given to Prism. Prism is the single most broken power in the game, and I've seen Prism Paladins not only trivialize content, but also bring the server to a grinding halt. How did the bubble warrant a nerf and Prism doesn't?
Second, Gift of Haste now seems totally useless. As someone said, I can grant 1% per second. I am supposed to be happy with this? I am going from being able to generate roughly ~50 AP in a few seconds, to taking nearly a minute to do the same? AP gen has been reduced to 10% of its prior value?! That's ludicrous. Why would I even stay in this feat tree, now? I don't mind a slight nerf, but this makes the entire tree seem utterly pointless.
And back to the paladin nerfs, the three best dailies are also mostly useless.
Soooooo, when are yall coming out with Druids? Because goodness knows if my husband and I are going to want to play our OP and DC anymore..
To be clear, prism got fixed with the lag and damage dealing via burning guidance quite a while ago now, I am not sure where you have been but prism is nothing like it once was. The huge amount of heals per second a paladin can put out are another issue yes, but for the most part they do not depend on prism to do this, Vow and Bond are quite enough on their own. -edit- you edited while i was writing my post
I am not sure how you can see haste as being useless. Isn't that 5% more AP that you have now then you had 5 seconds ago... and all you did was cast a skill you were going to cast anyways? And!, your party just got 5% more AP as well. I wonder what other feat/skill you use take that gives AP to your party like that... nope, i can't think of one either. Virtuous has much less of a clear use case now for sure, but that can be worked on. The tree should not be defined by a single feat.
Tell me again how useless 30% reduced incoming damage is on SoF? not 30% DR which has a cap at 80%, but 30% reduced damage which then further is reduced by DR. Heroism now lasts 10 seconds of CC immunity and also gives lots of temp HP, plenty enough time and power to use as a oh HAMSTER moment to either pick someone up or get yourself situated again. Divine Protector is a party saver like heroism is a personal saver.
If you think DC and OP are only good for haste and bubble then i pity your parties up until now because you left a lot on the table being so narrow minded. DC works exactly the same as before except it is not a AP bot, and now playing OP is a much more active event. These are not bad things
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mamalion1234Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,415Arc User
Tested GoH. Work as described: 5% over 5 seconds. Now a rigtheous with GoH works +/- as well as a virtuous with this change: no need to have a virtuous dc anymore. Btw there was another DC with GoH close to me: GoH stacks (2x on the GoH icon). Now improve Unbreakable devotion and - why not - rework cleansing fire to provide mitigation instead of GoH\Heals to make this path viable again.
i pretty like the way they heal both trees i will never say no to a virtuous because got fixed his haste.
Change divine glow so it does a better heal, but doesn't apply a heal over time. If you leave it then virtuous will be a 3 tier only choice as pretty much all DC use DG so all of them can leverage the new GoH equally well. If you change it so it just applies a heal then virtuous could be the path that can maintain GoH best at least.
Are you going to change bastion and divine SB and healing word to not give a HoT as well? It isn't hard to work a HoT into a rotation no matter what spec you play. any changes to virtuous need to be made to the feats
Bastion has a long cooldown and healing word isn't really optimal sunburst is HAMSTER compared to pretty much any ability - it doesn't damage or heal well, and is mostly used to apply effects. Righteous could use SB I suppose to maximize GoH, but you're losing other powerful party buffs. DG is the only one that is a real problem IMO as it deserves a slot in most rotations, and would proc GoH regardless of the path. If it's changed then Virt will still proc GoH from DG(along with other damage abilities if they feat properly) so it has more options then the other 2 lines if it wants to take advantage of GoH.
I think they could change DG fix Virt capstone and probably call it a day until they can give a more comprehensive pass.
Comments
Just buff encounters to give more shield/temp hp. Shield of faith gives paladin equal footing with GF party defensive wise but it is a daily. So OPs should get something desirable that GFs cannot provide.
Maybe bump shield of faith up to 20 seconds so a paladin can use DP whilst that daily is up in emergencies.
Or cap into the fray at 80% damage bonus.
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I'm looking forward to the changes being implemented and adjusting my playstyle accordingly. Like I've done every time they've nerfed something.
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It would be better to skip invincibility and make damages bleed through, so people would still need to pay attention to red spots and mechanics - time reduction is not a bad thing again, just it seems like a tiny bit more than needed, 10-15 second long bubble with ~60-70% protection - just an example - it would still keep the skill viable, but mechanics and cautiousness and healers would be required to be competitive.
I could live without the bubble (outside the fact that it seems to make jut another trash skill to avoid), but some boss and miniboss are do hit in the hundreds of thousands, with the orcus debuff/buff bug in the 500k-1M range. So if things stay the same, those "tiny" annoyances would be good to get rid of. (Portal phase of Orcus does not reliably removes the defense/damage debuff if you complete it, and pretty damages from black and blue dragons of DF)
Binding Oath fix is good in my opinion, oath killing things was funny, but clearly an exploit.
Not sure about everyone else, but I want to feel like I'm being challenged in a game where the success of a Dungeon or Raid isn't completely hinged on a single class' ability to nullify all damage at all times. Each class should do what they're good at and each player behind the class should learn what makes them useful in the party - not just stand there and spam powers due to invulnerability. Permabubble needed to go to bring challenge back into the game.
Like Amenar said, bubble is supposed to be used in dire situations.
Am I scared I won't be able to rely on permabubble anymore? Of course! But I welcome the challenge.
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For most of us who had a clear understanding on DC, each path (V/F/R) are designed for different purpose and have different playstyle. I guess none of the devs mained a DC or even tried to advance as a DC from level 1 to level 70 and then from 2k il to 4k il. The experience and playstyle is totally different for each small il progression and we DC have to cope seriously when we pug or even premade with others. In other words, we are everything at anytime. If ppl need heal, we heal, if ppl need dps, we multiply their damage, if ppl need someone to tank, we will go front and try not to die, if ppl need AP, we will try our best to spam some HoT to keep our OP daily up and so on bla bla bla....
Personally, i was a virtuous dc with GoH, pvp faithful tank with GoH and a righteous heavy debuffer with GoH. The magnitude of AP shared as virtuous is totally different as the other two. As the virtuous feat does apply HoT quite frequently, GoH starts to shine as a potential key feature to have for low il party. As a faithful and righteous, though we can still apply GoH, the effect is too small as we dont always have HoT skill in our bar and we dont have extra virtuous feat to trigger it. Thus, GoH only shines in the hand of virtuous. By limiting it to 1% per sec without stacking, virtuous and the other 2 paths have no difference anymore, losing its signature ability. Moreover, the amount of AP gain is drastically reduced until the feat is totally useless. I will give you an example. If i cast 5 HoT skills in 5 sec i should get 5x5%=25% AP, but with the new mechanic i will only get 5% by the time i casted all 5 HoT, even i included another 4% after 4 sec i still only have 9% extra AP. A artifact necklace can do better than 5 points in this feat in terms of triggering condition and AP/s, is this what you all want to see?
Previously, when daily spamming from TR (SE) due to legendary DC sigil, what the devs did is not nerf the sigil but nerf two DC daily until we cant gain AP for 15 sec+. After that, the DC who didnt use their sigil previously has problem to cast their daily while the daily spamming TR are still spamming their daily like nothing. This time i saw the same thing happening again. The way to solve perma bubble from their artifact weapons, DC sigil and AP stat gain is to nerf DC's GoH. Is that related? Yes but only in lower bracket il where OP is still not geared enough. I would like to say, dont consider nerfing DC as the ultimate solution for daily spamming, how many times we are not the culprit but yet we get no bug fixing but more nerfs??
From my perspective, there is some good solutions without hurting DC too much but can also solve the problem of TR SE spamming and OP perma bubble:
1. GoH changed to 0.5% AP/s for 5 sec but allow to stack (no more burst AP but slower steady AP gain per sec)
2. Tune down the duration of OP bubble (you all already did so i will skip)
3. Change the DC sigil active to be double AP gain rate for 10 sec at mythic instead of giving full AP bar per min.
If you really think perma bubble is not because of your luxury snail, hard to grind burning weapon set, mythic DC sigil, gorgon and embellished apparatus mount but is only our DC feat, go on to nerf it as your like and kill the virtuous path. We are not needed for pve as healer over 2.5k il, no more AP buff for team as virtuous so faithful will be more superior in healing that it. If you really want to nerf GoH, go ahead but remember to remove the AP gain penalty on DC dailies which last time you all nerf us without reason. Do not hurt DC anymore when you dont have to, if you need more information abt DC, please ask the devs who mained a DC to go into temple forum to discuss with us, ty!! (though i think this guy not exist)
It is still good. Having 1% ap every sec for 5 secs is more than fine and if the cleric can rotate his healing over time effects well, gift of haste can give 1% ap every sec until the daily bar is filled. It now works similar to devote cleric artifact but not as fast as it. Also, the ap generation from the allies themself added to the haste buff will keep AP for them still filled. So gift of haste is still good in my opinion.
About divine glow: It still doesnt proc weapon enchantments. And the wording for ranks is still the same. Each rank mentions "damage buff". Divine glow doesnt buff damage but damage resistance. And about not stacking while in divinity... well I'm used to what it has always been so didnt get my hopes too high...
Also i was expecting more fixes and some kinda buff to some Virtuous feats that are not working well and that i have mentioned for some long in old posts, im tired of having to post if i am being ignored.
Maybe if the challenge was met with actual rewards. You know, actually desirable things other than salvage. Like..boe insignias, or dropped sets, or like...anything other than what we have now really. What the team fails to grasp is that challenging content will only be done if there is an equal reward for completing it. Not a .005% chance to get a +5 ring or artifact. That can hardly be called a fair chance at a reward.
So if you want to challenge us, don't just beat the living hell out of our toons; give us some compensation for running the paltry endgame offerings that you left us with after stealing our dungeons away (yes I'm still bitter over the devs actually taking away the endgame and never giving it back)
And the GoH nerf would have stopped a great many paladins from being able to permabubble, but you are correct Jazzfong, the haste nerf would not have stopped the good/geared paladins from doing their own permabubble, which is why they nerfed the uptime on bubble and nerfed haste at the same time.
The number of dailies really was getting too high, paladins aside. And no, haste was not the only ability at fault here. But like with the lostmauth nerf creating a level playing field to balance DPS on, haste is at a level where the devs can see what changes can be made to AP generation in general.
I agree that virtuous could use a couple tweaks now to make it a bit more unique again.
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If I wanted challenging with a chance for insta-death at every turn, I'd go play something like Path of Exile or a rogue-like. Do the players actually *want* a challenge? Do they *want* to face death and failure on a regular basis? I submit to you that the state of the game suggests, as an aggregate: no, they don't. Maybe what they want is to feel empowered and awesome and HAMSTER. And badasses don't die. Badasses don't get one-shot, especially. They do want to be a meaningful part of something--so while I'll tell them to get used to it, I understand why newer, lower level players might lament that they often see the dungeons they can do turned into a "chase after the level 70 that destroys everything before you can even react" experience.
I am not looking for a game where I have to work hard to succeed on a regular basis. Ultimately, I don't mind a bubble-nerf in principle. I can't always enjoy how good I am at being competent when it doesn't really matter.
But it's also going to make earning my rAD all the more difficult: my AP DCs could know that 90% of the time having an OP in the party meant we're going to succeed no matter what because the two of us combined could overcome nearly any amount of weakness and idiocy from the other three; or any time I see we've got an AP+bubbledin combo in a party on any character, I knew it was very unlikely that my time was about to be wasted. Without an OP, I have to actually look at everyone's ilvl and gear and stats to get a feel for what they might be able to achieve, because there's a lot less idiocy that a GF can compensate for (and a hell of a lot more that a bad GF can add). Failure rates are much higher, and failure is frustrating, and unenjoyable, and does not make me think the game is worth money. Of course, the consequences of the new queue system, the spawning issues that you have still only fixed for CN when it affects all dungeons, and the game's REQUIREMENT that I be efficient about AD generation if I'm to actually get anything or do anything other than screw around for HAMSTER and giggles, means I'm almost never running epic content these days. It's all about doing around 20 instances of Cloak Tower/ToS and invoking. Why? Because it works. Because I don't routinely fail because the party's dumb, or weak, or don't know how to play their classes, or get disconnected, or decide to abandon ship on the group before even I do, etc. etc. etc. I don't run epic party content because the game at this point is designed to actively discourage me from it. There are so many better alternatives out there to get what I want that it's laughable. We keep telling you over and over and over and over and over and over and over again: give us actual, meaningful rewards from doing these things. But you keep ignoring this over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.
Many days I don't even know why I play. It's no longer relevant that I actually do epic content at all, so why am I bothering trying to be HAMSTER at doing it? One way or another, it's definitely not so I can be challenged and frustrated when I could get the same end result much more easily and much more quickly from readily available alternatives.
I think I'm trying to become more powerful so that I can get less frustrated by weak or bad players. If I become powerful enough, eventually I'll be able to remove the frustration and waste-of-my-time-failure factor from content all by myself. Because I would like for there to be something meaningful and good and "epic" to do...but there isn't! Not until you're 3k+ and can carry every party through everything. At which point...what exactly are you trying to get from those runs, again?
Did any DC ever have time to actually test to see if hastening light actually works when selected in artifact offhand?? I feel with this change it might be worth double checking to see if it's working as intended. I stopped using it when someone brought up that it was bugged and didn't see much difference from anyone in my parties.
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Is the Virtuous capstone still bugged in that the HoT aren't doing double healing?
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Oh and also since AP gain is the issue of the day Chains of Blasing Light and Searing Light still give AP in their divine forms.
We're encouraged to have up to 5 characters for free - so we have to either work on one character as our focus, or spend hours most of us don't have trying to level the characters' gear so we don't become so underpowered that we can't survive the content and/or people don't want us in their parties because we're being hauled along. Swapping GS with IL only changed what people ask for in the queues. IL is nearing 3K for demands for most PUGs.
Then there's the whole damage increase from enemies at level 70. I used to be able to solo "Need for Mead" on even my weak SW. Now the only one who can solo it is my OP, with his bubble up. It takes forever given his lack of DPS, but at least he can finish it. My CW, DC, SW, and TR all die. I've used respect tokens on all of them following various builds on the forums, but nothing I do makes even that content possible. Even now, I routinely get one-shot on every character but my OP.
When I first rolled my OP, I had no idea what different dailies would be. Once I saw the bubble in action, I realized why people didn't want me in their parties, and I had to respect so that I had it. And I had to swap my DC so he had Gift of Haste, because people (still) didn't want a healer who was less effective than their potions and couldn't keep them alive.
The problem that Cryptic seems to have is that it doesn't balance content for those of us who are still trying to level our gear. Not all of my characters have attained purple artifact gear yet, because - again - it's hard to get people to bring along a warlock who's leveling his gear and risks success of the run. It is maddening to run Tiamat (when enough people decide to queue up) and fail because there isn't enough DPS. I will grant you that it's just as maddening that four people pretty much do all of the DPS in a win run, but again, the balance is missing. Why do so many people use Sigil of the Devoted? Because AP leads to dailies, and dailies are how PCs stay alive. I try to run ToS without a bubble paladin and those phase spiders take out the whole team within seconds. That's not fun. It's not challenging. It's maddening.
I spent months building up my Sharandar set on my DC. It was hard to do, and the benefits of it made me as desired as a DC ever was for healing. Then you upped the levels, and my set became less effective than green gear at 61. Blue gear at 62 was more effective than what I had spent months grinding to achieve, and it could be had for less than 500 AD per piece on the AH. When I leveled my paladin, every time I hit a new level range I just hit up the AH for blue gear. Why bother with seals at all? Who cares about quest gear? Someone's found stuff I can use right away and the game is so flooded with it I can buy it and do better than surviving.
I waited, and I waited, letting my Sharandar gear sit taking up my bank space, for some way to "upgrade" it or trade it in for some new set. I finally sacrificed it to the salvage altar during the last Double AD event, because it was clear to me that I was never going to get any kind of recognition for the time I spent getting that gear.
Then you introduced the ultimate in pay-to-win: VIP. I signed up like almost everyone else did, too. Only two of my characters had the full Lathander set, and since traps suddenly became extremely deadly, it was the only way to be safe. Except that I ground for three months (seems to be a magic number) before I got my first two Eyes. Two more months of grinding never yielded a third, and I finally gave up. But, I did give up two months of my life to get the first two Eyes. And players gain the set bonus for $8.50 a month: no farming, no leveling of gauntlets, and no grinding required.
So you bring in the OP class. It's been missing since launch (along with a druid) but, like all new classes, it is dramatically overpowered. The Oath of Protection made it the OP OP OP. But while it felt like a cheat, I wasn't dying, and with an AP DC, I was able to keep the party alive. People thanked me at the end of a dungeon run. I didn't have to spend months of time or vast sums of money to be competitive. And you're not only going to take that away from me, but you're going to make the whole "protection" thing a joke. Even with the bubble, I still go down in epic Demigorgon (and my protection with it). The game was fun again, for a while.
Then you changed the AD system. I know that people were abusing it, but you didn't reduce the effect, you virtually eliminated it. For people like me who work days, I could do Gateway from work. I can't log in and play content at work. So, I run dungeons and skirmishes. If I'm lucky, I can run one of each per night, since I can't live in the game. So I have to pick which character I'll have make the AD. Thanks to all of the nerfs already done to my characters, the only reasonable choices I have are OP and DC. I can't compete on DPS with any of my others, and the three things needed for any group are DC/Tank/DPS/DPS/DPS.
The reaction here is no different than in the past: we get long-winded explanations as to what went wrong, and then the whole world is shifted from under us. You don't make changes incrementally - you alter the entire game mechanics until people find a new way to survive. Yes, survive. All the truly OP characters will continue to be so with their Rank 12 enchants and mythic gear. The rest of us will struggle and beg them to come on runs with us so we can survive while the people who play all day try to find new combos or hacks or cheats.
Looking at balance again: I have a level 70 cleric. At that rank (pretending it's not egregiously ridiculous in D&D) I should almost be a demigod. I cast my daily Hammer at a level 71 ogre in the guild stronghold. He's not even a boss. He loses at most 1 bar of health, probably less. My OP comes in, drops a Divine Judgment on him, and he loses four to seven bars. My TR stealth-stabs him for that much. I am the divine conduit for my deity, and I can't even do 1/20th of the full-health damage to an ogre using my most powerful spell. Wearing epic 70 gear, he can hit me for 1/4 of mine. Flame Strike does better damage, and it's AoE. Almost every monster is immune to knockback, even though they're up against the (supposed) mightiest power of a god. This is supposed to be fun?
Then there are the class-specific artifacts. It makes absolute sense that you don't want me to refine them... after all I can reclaim them. So it's not hard to see an endless cycle of people claiming and dumping them into leveling other gear. Here's where (again) I'm punished. Either I don't level the gear, or when I get a usable artifact (like Bruenor's Helm) I have to put my artifact in the bank or toss it, because it's not salvageable. Wouldn't a simpler (and less punishing) solution be that you can't refine one of these items until it's, say, level 20? Sure, you can reclaim it for free, but you still have to level it to get a fraction of the input back. But as it is with all things Neverwinter now, it's binary. All the way or zero. Here, it's zero. It's my Sharandar armor all over again. Sure, I spent months (over a year now) refining my CW Artifact, but now that I have something else I want to use, I can get nothing out of it, since it can't be refined.
I could go on, but in the TL;DR world, most people stopped reading this paragraphs ago. You could take a measured approach and rather than relying on your own testing alone, scale things back say 25% at a time and let them be for a month or so while people adjust to the changes. You could do as others have suggested, and make the powers not refill while in use. (You do this with AP while Hallowed Ground is cast - unlike any other daily - so you obviously know how to code it). In the simplest of words, you could try more subtle shifts and let your player base decide if you've done enough.
Second, I'll be curious to see if you're willing to tweak these changes as you get feedback. My gut tells me this might be too big a nerf and you need to tweak some, but not much. Additionally, I see this as potentially affecting pugs and smaller guilds more. I don't see this affecting me or my guild as we are higher il and more coordinated in our tactics. It'll be interesting to see how the rest adapt...
Finally if you are doing this , then you seriously need to consider nerfing t2 mobs so they don't do 200-300k dmg per hit and one shot everyone...that gets old fast...
The Legendary Outlaws
Preferences:
PvE and PvP - Pathfinder Combat
(Edit) Someone is telling me Prism was already nerfed, but if so, I missed those patch notes. (/edit)
Second, Gift of Haste now seems totally useless. As someone said, I can grant 1% per second. I am supposed to be happy with this? I am going from being able to generate roughly ~50 AP in a few seconds, to taking nearly a minute to do the same? AP gen has been reduced to 10% of its prior value?! That's ludicrous. Why would I even stay in this feat tree, now? I don't mind a slight nerf, but this makes the entire tree seem utterly pointless.
And back to the paladin nerfs, the three best dailies are also mostly useless.
Soooooo, when are yall coming out with Druids? Because goodness knows if my husband and I are going to want to play our OP and DC anymore..
Haste clerics & bubble Paladins made dungeon groups so much more relaxed & enjoyable for everyone. Rather than having every artifact and peice of gear being inspected the moment you arrive in a dungeon, you just grabbed some dps and went for it. All of my characters have benefitted from the coupling. It's much easier for lower dps to find a group & improve their gear.
I really REALLY really hope this is just an April fools day joke & we're not heading back towards item level/gear score controlled parties.
I am not sure how you can see haste as being useless. Isn't that 5% more AP that you have now then you had 5 seconds ago... and all you did was cast a skill you were going to cast anyways? And!, your party just got 5% more AP as well. I wonder what other feat/skill you use take that gives AP to your party like that... nope, i can't think of one either. Virtuous has much less of a clear use case now for sure, but that can be worked on. The tree should not be defined by a single feat.
Tell me again how useless 30% reduced incoming damage is on SoF? not 30% DR which has a cap at 80%, but 30% reduced damage which then further is reduced by DR.
Heroism now lasts 10 seconds of CC immunity and also gives lots of temp HP, plenty enough time and power to use as a oh HAMSTER moment to either pick someone up or get yourself situated again.
Divine Protector is a party saver like heroism is a personal saver.
If you think DC and OP are only good for haste and bubble then i pity your parties up until now because you left a lot on the table being so narrow minded. DC works exactly the same as before except it is not a AP bot, and now playing OP is a much more active event. These are not bad things
We are searching for slave labor, will pay with food from our farm!
I think they could change DG fix Virt capstone and probably call it a day until they can give a more comprehensive pass.