The last time a whole bunch of people got HAMSTER like this, Bill Cosby was in the room!
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ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
Seeing how this would make me want to bot too, there's easily more that feel the same way. You'll probably see an increase.... Pvp, normal dungeons, that's all easy takings for botters with all the free time in the world. And with VIP just more free keys for them to run these things and make ADs. They likely will not lose much income with the changes....
Already got zones that are laggy enough as it is.... PUG while leveling up and get stuck with 2 bots each time lol.
Then be prepared to camp by the GG/Domination campfire cause it's you and bots... vs Midnight Express...... It will become even more impossible for people with not much time to actually progress and gear up in pvp. Bots don't care about seals of triumph, but HUMANS do.
I hear ya. I am already cringing at how much less AD I'll be able to make but really, all this means is I no longer will be spending all my time making that AD and instead will now be running skirmishes, delves, and so on. So, this is that push I personally needed to stop myself from only playing the "leadership game."
It will just be a different game.
instead of logging in an alt and running professions it will be log in an alt, queue pvp, sit there, done, log new alt, queue pvp, sit there, done. repeat........
different game same bot.
Nah, I don't PvP so I'll be doing PvE content with friends again. Woot! I do agree with the comments folks have though, that there will most likely be a needed adjustment to the price of our current AD sinks. Time will tell for sure.
So what has been stopping you from PVEing with friends? Professions? I don't have an army of leadership bots. I have 5 toons, 3 of which I try play on a regular basis. One is at 21 in leadership. The others range from 19 through 17. Just about where i was going to actually have some AD on a regular basis to upgrade gear. Leadership takes me about a minute per toon to set up each time I log in. What takes you so long? I don't want an army, but I want my small group to produce what I developed them for. There is NOTHING, let me reiterate, NOTHING in place to help with the loss of revenue this will represent for me and other players like me. Utter HAMSTER, and totally typical for what has passed for updates since MOD 6. Complete overreaction at every turn, always to the detriment of players.
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feanor70118Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,170Arc User
edited September 2015
All I see here is the usual money grab. Players find a way to make AD and advance their characters without spending a fortune, you guys take it away. Simple as that. We all know it has absolutely nothing to do with bots. This is disgusting.
Seeing how this would make me want to bot too, there's easily more that feel the same way. You'll probably see an increase.... Pvp, normal dungeons, that's all easy takings for botters with all the free time in the world. And with VIP just more free keys for them to run these things and make ADs. They likely will not lose much income with the changes....
Already got zones that are laggy enough as it is.... PUG while leveling up and get stuck with 2 bots each time lol.
Then be prepared to camp by the GG/Domination campfire cause it's you and bots... vs Midnight Express...... It will become even more impossible for people with not much time to actually progress and gear up in pvp. Bots don't care about seals of triumph, but HUMANS do.
Don't worry, it will be Midnight Express on your team afk'ing at the campfire because most of them are botters or wallet warriors to begin with.
If you do take making AD out of leadership, I don't see much of a reason to even log in after that. I really won't have a reason to play the game anymore. I won't be able to run the quests for SH anymore since all I will be able to do is run dungeon and skirmishes the short time I have to play. I hate pvp so there won't be any AD from there. And then you expect me to log in everyday just to make 80% to 90% less AD than I make now on my 3 characters doing leadership. I don't have a leadership army so this is effectively going to kill the game for me. The new mod 8 coming out, who is going to run that content when we will all still just be doing dungeons, skirmishes, or pvp just to make any AD to try to level up anything. Which will now take so long to level up, it just won't even be worth it. If you do this, it just won't be worth logging in or even playing anymore. So as I said before, thank you scre-w-ing over all of us that need leadership to make any headway in this game at all.
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feanor70118Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,170Arc User
edited September 2015
On a constructive note, if you're going to do this, you need to: 1) Give us a realistic in-game source of GMOPs, much more than used to drop from dungeons before you took most of those away for no reason; 2) Give us a realistic in-game source of preservation wards and coalescent wards; 3) Find a way to compensate players who will no longer have any way to earn the millions of AD it takes to upgrade artifacts to legendary and mythic; 4) Do the same for players who will no longer be able to afford the millions of AD it take to upgrade enchantments past rank 7; 5) Fix the pvp queues so that players who no longer have any hope of ever making a rank 9 enchantment don't have to constantly face BiS characters; 6) Stop right here with these obvious anti-player, money grab measures that only alienate your player base; 7) Actually, no. This is such a terrible idea that you need to just walk it back. There's really nothing good to say about it. By the way, the reason no one uses the foundry is that you pay as little attention to it as you do to balancing pvp and fixing bugs - time you obviously instead use to find ways to continue to alienate and disgust your player base. This is theft worse than yanking the rug out from under us with new artifact equipment and then lying about the refinement rate; worse than nerfing dragon's hoard enchantments and not admitting to it for months. Apparently you're so used to getting away with abusing your players that you think we'll just take whatever insulting, obnoxious changes you throw at us.
If you do take making AD out of leadership, I don't see much of a reason to even log in after that. I really won't have a reason to play the game anymore. I won't be able to run the quests for SH anymore since all I will be able to do is run dungeon and skirmishes the short time I have to play. I hate pvp so there won't be any AD from there. And then you expect me to log in everyday just to make 80% to 90% less AD than I make now on my 3 characters doing leadership. I don't have a leadership army so this is effectively going to kill the game for me. The new mod 8 coming out, who is going to run that content when we will all still just be doing dungeons, skirmishes, or pvp just to make any AD to try to level up anything. Which will now take so long to level up, it just won't even be worth it. If you do this, it just won't be worth logging in or even playing anymore. So as I said before, thank you scre-w-ing over all of us that need leadership to make any headway in this game at all.
Exactly, if you devs roll this out, your game is dead. But perhaps it's for the better, as it stands this game is on its last legs. 24k AD per day on one character, maybe 2 if I'm not already bored with the lack of garbage content in-game? Good joke. I make 10 times that much per day and it's still not enough to get the things I want.
Okay, since everyone else is throwing a bucket of change at this, here's my two cents:
1. Leadership - still rewards RP, which is good. I got tired of trying to manage my leadership alts. I'm hoping that Devs will up the rewards, though. In particular, RP and regular XP would be nice to see. Given that 1 AD = ~1RP, it'd be nice to see some equivalence.
2. If the RAD cap is still in place, why limit the amount that can be earned from tasks? I don't like to PvP, and avoid it as much as possible. I do, however, enjoy running dungeons with my guild, and do that fairly regularly.
So, if I can't refine more than 24k RAD in a day, why would my accumulating more than 13,200 RAD from dungeons be an issue? I'd suggest a sliding scale, to a minimum. Start big, to reward casual players, and drop it off so it takes some dedication to complete (say, about 5 steps). That way, people who enjoy PvP can stick with it, us dungeon runners can do what we enjoy, and no one is feeling forced into gameplay they don't like.
Worst case, people end up with a glut of RAD they can't refine. That shouldn't unbalance the system, from where I stand.
you're removing leadership AD? ok. that's was indeed a horrible concept to earn currency. earn AD by playing? ok. but now we get to the part where you really haven't made any increase in your description in making AD by playing compared to leadership. so it's a blatant lie and you just moved the AD around instead of 1 match you now need 2. and the time invested in all this is a lot of hours. that's just not gonna work. I predict more people leaving.
Increase gain from playing and daily limit otherwise this is a huge waste of time. I for one will not be doing it for such rewards
Ok, so I follow you on the dungeon explanation. I think it will be good to do away with the hourly events - that gives me more flexibility on when I want to do dungeon runs.
You lost me on skirmishes though... while your dungeon equation considers the daily quest bonus plus the AD in the chest from the hourly, your skirmish equation considers only the daily quest. Currently, every skirmish gives 1000 AD during skirmish hour, and you completely left that out 3 daily runs nets 6k AD, and the new formula does not cover that.
Also, 50 AD for a skirmish feels like an insult. The lower limits should be higher... there is a daily cap after all.
My other concern is that only half my time is spent doing dungeons or skirmishes. The rest is campaign questing, stronghold questing, and things like Draconic Herald runs or Icewind Heroic Encounters. If you really want AD income to reflect time spent, then all quests and Heroic Encounters have to have some level of AD reward. They would NEED to in order to offset lost income from Leadership... some of us are using that profession legitimately, and are not bots... And I for one need leadership income to come anywhere near the 24k daily refinement limit.
ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
edited September 2015
Epics that bots can't abuse need to give way bigger AD rewards than what they have planned. Very few people, like 0.5% of the entire game population can even stick around for that long and do several dungeons to make only 30kish per day. That is not rewarding at all. I sure as hell don't feel like grinding dungeons for 4 hours only to make pocket change.
Let us make 16,000 from a T2 run. That sounds a lot better. I could bear doing that with a few chars per day. 16,000, 8,000 for 2nd run. So people don't feel burdened having to grind all day long, and it's rewarding for players who invest in more than 1 character. Best of all, botters can't grow fat off it.
Besides, why do you make the same/similar amount doing T1s and T2s anyway?
I want whoever makes these decisions to know that this type of decision is going to cause more bots/exploiting. It kinda like when your parents tell you "do't do that", what is the first thing you do? That. Whatever it is. People that normally wouldn't bot/exploit will now out of spite. You guys need to go back to the style of play from just after mod 2 was released, the game was fun, people ran dungeons for the fun of it and hey you might get an item worth something. Oh that's right there were dungeons back then. Good to know you are more worried about how much AD i make on my alts, I paid you money for those alts don't forget, so i should be able to use them how i see fit. What are you going to do if i find a way to make AD off of selling simple pelts, take that out also? You are making it really hard to stay.
Im freacking laughing out Loud for real, they actually put an 15% charge reward after announcing this.
hahahahahahaahah now I finnally having some fun with this game.
Wow. Just wow. Talk about blatant.
Frankly, I no longer trust the devs.
Trust, it would take a miracle now for naybodyassociated with Cryptic for me to earn a fingernail bit of trust. This is the worst thing they could ever come up with. What the hell shall we do now with those alts. By these high prices Cryptic slaps on items i can't afford to play 7 of my old toons, now i won't be able to play one, talk about DnD diversity. How on earth should i get the money for Strongholds zillions and the upkeeping of my few remaining play toons.
It would only be somewhat understandable if prices would drastically go down. Like a rank 9 is currently around 650k, if that would be 65k i would say, hmm hell i pay for it, but i bet it won't be near as cheap as that and from that pitty daily few thousands one could earn, many of us never will be able to upgrade anything, so why play, if one hasn't a goal? Dear Cryptic, have you thought about this question at all?
But tbh PWE is very silly too, if they do this, in Germany we have a saying about such companies, well i am lazy to translate, but we don't give a second chance at all. If they ruin Neverwinter for us, i personally will never touch anything Cryptic nor PWE again. I am stubborn as a Prussian Field Marshall.
The real honest man is honest from conviction of what is right, not from policy.
Robert E. Lee
I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.
Winston Churchill
The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are.
David Icke
This really makes me reconsider what I'm doing here. Now I either need to just focus on 1 character or figure something else out. But I get bored with just 1 character. I like the variety of having a healer, DPS and tank to rotate through. But the time and cost of gearing them all up is ridiculous. Devs should have made artifact stuff account wide. Would make it easier for groups to adapt to needs, too. Can't just switch to an alt to balance a party so easily now because they're likely geared so inferior as to be near useless in comparison to demands of an epic dungeon. 2000 gear score is good enough to get you killed 7 times in the first fight.
I have a question: How should i be able to earn Astral Diamonds in the game to progress my character?
I am in a guild. I hardly play Skirmishs because it is not needed and nothing good drops in Skirmish and i can hardly find them entertaining. I don't play PvP because there are only few playing it which means the matchmakings is awefull and you get squashed by 4K ilvl characters with perfect PvP Gear and to be honest PvP in Neverwinter doesn't derserve the description of PvP it is more like an enhanced Duell-System. I like and of course i like to play Dungeons. I have the chance to get a blue (T1) or epic (T2) armor part which i can salvage on my main character or twinks for a bit of profit but the chance is slim and to get a rare artifact drop is even more rare but my guild can also earn shards for our Stronghold to progress. So i like Dungeons.
I play like 2-4 hours a day. How should i be able to earn a decent amount of rough astral diamonds? If i understand it correctly i can only get the 7,200 rough astral diamonds from my dungeons i run and thats it + 1 free epic dungeon key for an armor part to salvage. The rest is luck and i can't imagine to get enough armor parts together to get even my main character to the 24,000 rough astral diamond limit.
Honestyl i have the feeling you (Cryptic/PWE) want to dry out the astral diamond market. If you think because of exploits and bots there is too many astral diamonds in the system simply say: "We are sorry, we set all astral diamonds in the game to 0 but give a special event month for our regular player to earn enough Astral Diamonds. The reason is that recent exploits and bots destroyed the economy." Don't announce it in advance, simply do it so the botters and exploiter have no chance to transfer their astral diamonds into items and everyone should be happy.
Platypus wielding a giant hammer, your argument is invalild!
Just gonna leave this here and just point on the 24h task vs the 4h task. Also, want to thank Cryptic for really thinking this one through before rolling it out. *two thumbs up!*
drkbodhiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,378Arc User
edited September 2015
That would work... level the playing field. Though I have talked to a number of players who have millions of stored Zen... YES millions with an 'M'.
In the Star Trek universe... they redistributed all of the wealth, evenly, as a global initiative. That solved a ton of issues that had been plaguing mankind for eons. Quite frankly... they essentially did it in that movie I am not supposed to talk about. You know the one.
Atwil "At" - Tiefling TR / Saardush - Black Dragonborn GWF / White - Tiefling OP
Can't just switch to an alt to help a party or avoid boredom so easily now unless you've made gearing them up your 2nd full time job. And that's exactly what Mod 6 did. Turned this from fast and fun action to a grinding job. We used to have 11 other dungeons we could do. The variety was there to avoid boredom. Now I've been playing Kessel, Lostmauth and Tuern for 2 weeks straight since I turned lvl 70 and I hate them. I'd rather just find new gear in chests throughout the game instead of grinding away for the same thing in the same quests.
Sure it's great to advance a piece of equipment, but who has time to do 4 artifacts, 4 gear artifacts on all characters? Certainly not me. Hopefully I can be content just working on my cleric for now, getting her boons up and farming resonance stones just for her to get her artifact gear all purple. Orange is like 10 times the effort required to get just a purple. So I can either have 1 excellent piece of equipment or everything purple on all 3 mains.
They really backed us into a corner with this. I will never be able to afford to upgrade my companion or have anything higher than lvl 7 or 8 enchantments or orange artifacts. And that sucks. After all this time and effort put into religiously crafting my Leadership it just sucks. Like I said earlier on the forum, this feels like a frozen fish slap to the head where it's screaming at me "you've wasted your life!" And that feels gross. Just gross.
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ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
I sure as hell am not going to focus on 1 character. I dumped millions into each class and like to play every one.
Reduce GMoP down to what blue marks cost on the vendor. Blue ones are so cheap now the vendor ones are never bought anymore. If GMoP cost 25,000 off vendor I'll be happy with these changes. It will make enchants cheaper as well off AH and help everyone. That and transmute costs are cut as well cause I currently spend a million on transmutation looks for 8 chars. 50,000 per piece to transmute will be waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much.
i think if you take away leadership ability to make ad you will do more damage then good. neverwinter will loose tons of players and not just bots. i firmly believe that "bots" are just an excuse to take away ad from leadership. you claim its so people that dont hv "jobs" to "pay" will "play" what about those of use that DONT have extra money. sure some of us has jobs. but we have bills. which is the whole reason WE CHOOSE A FREE TO PLAY GAME. otherwise most of us would be on ESO. (which is starting to sound like the smarter plan) i know almost half my guild will leave you know the guild members we just busted our behinds to gain. i had to fight my husband last night not to just rage quit, for he spent real cash to buy character slots just to get leadership to 25 just so he would have some ad to spend. he works a full time job and supports a house hold of kids (that isnt even his. he ended up having to raise his Brothers & his sisters kids due to a car wreck that left them parent-less. ) we play this game as our escape into fantasy he also has a broken wrist of which he just had surgery on a few weeks ago he cannot play this game for hrs on in like most people are able to leadership gave him the ability to do so with out being left behind. even running multiple toons he still only made about 150,000 ad every 2 days. thats not a whole lot in fact thats barely enough to "live off of, so to speak" and now your taking that away from him "for the greater good" you say. whos greater good? i know whos cryptics who seems to be squeezing its customers dry. i know before you guys got so money hungry my husband and i spent more money then we do now. now were just pretty fed up with how greedy you guys are getting. we dont mind supporting the game when we can. but as of late it seems like you guys are trying to force us which just makes us have a very unpleasant unhappy gaming experience.. the only people who say they are "happy" about this is the ones that is naive enough to think that 90% of the mega players in pvp are wallet warrior. so this really isnt going to hv as much impact as they think it will. and in the end i think they will be let down of there false expectations. i think this will be a game breaker. and last straw for alot of people.
Comments
Already got zones that are laggy enough as it is.... PUG while leveling up and get stuck with 2 bots each time lol.
Then be prepared to camp by the GG/Domination campfire cause it's you and bots... vs Midnight Express...... It will become even more impossible for people with not much time to actually progress and gear up in pvp. Bots don't care about seals of triumph, but HUMANS do.
1. Leadership - still rewards RP, which is good. I got tired of trying to manage my leadership alts. I'm hoping that Devs will up the rewards, though. In particular, RP and regular XP would be nice to see. Given that 1 AD = ~1RP, it'd be nice to see some equivalence.
2. If the RAD cap is still in place, why limit the amount that can be earned from tasks? I don't like to PvP, and avoid it as much as possible. I do, however, enjoy running dungeons with my guild, and do that fairly regularly.
So, if I can't refine more than 24k RAD in a day, why would my accumulating more than 13,200 RAD from dungeons be an issue? I'd suggest a sliding scale, to a minimum. Start big, to reward casual players, and drop it off so it takes some dedication to complete (say, about 5 steps). That way, people who enjoy PvP can stick with it, us dungeon runners can do what we enjoy, and no one is feeling forced into gameplay they don't like.
Worst case, people end up with a glut of RAD they can't refine. That shouldn't unbalance the system, from where I stand.
earn AD by playing? ok.
but now we get to the part where you really haven't made any increase in your description in making AD by playing compared to leadership. so it's a blatant lie and you just moved the AD around instead of 1 match you now need 2.
and the time invested in all this is a lot of hours. that's just not gonna work. I predict more people leaving.
Increase gain from playing and daily limit otherwise this is a huge waste of time. I for one will not be doing it for such rewards
You lost me on skirmishes though... while your dungeon equation considers the daily quest bonus plus the AD in the chest from the hourly, your skirmish equation considers only the daily quest. Currently, every skirmish gives 1000 AD during skirmish hour, and you completely left that out 3 daily runs nets 6k AD, and the new formula does not cover that.
Also, 50 AD for a skirmish feels like an insult. The lower limits should be higher... there is a daily cap after all.
My other concern is that only half my time is spent doing dungeons or skirmishes. The rest is campaign questing, stronghold questing, and things like Draconic Herald runs or Icewind Heroic Encounters. If you really want AD income to reflect time spent, then all quests and Heroic Encounters have to have some level of AD reward. They would NEED to in order to offset lost income from Leadership... some of us are using that profession legitimately, and are not bots... And I for one need leadership income to come anywhere near the 24k daily refinement limit.
Thanks
Let us make 16,000 from a T2 run. That sounds a lot better. I could bear doing that with a few chars per day. 16,000, 8,000 for 2nd run. So people don't feel burdened having to grind all day long, and it's rewarding for players who invest in more than 1 character. Best of all, botters can't grow fat off it.
Besides, why do you make the same/similar amount doing T1s and T2s anyway?
It would only be somewhat understandable if prices would drastically go down. Like a rank 9 is currently around 650k, if that would be 65k i would say, hmm hell i pay for it, but i bet it won't be near as cheap as that and from that pitty daily few thousands one could earn, many of us never will be able to upgrade anything, so why play, if one hasn't a goal? Dear Cryptic, have you thought about this question at all?
But tbh PWE is very silly too, if they do this, in Germany we have a saying about such companies, well i am lazy to translate, but we don't give a second chance at all. If they ruin Neverwinter for us, i personally will never touch anything Cryptic nor PWE again. I am stubborn as a Prussian Field Marshall.
Robert E. Lee
I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.
Winston Churchill
The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are.
David Icke
I am in a guild. I hardly play Skirmishs because it is not needed and nothing good drops in Skirmish and i can hardly find them entertaining. I don't play PvP because there are only few playing it which means the matchmakings is awefull and you get squashed by 4K ilvl characters with perfect PvP Gear and to be honest PvP in Neverwinter doesn't derserve the description of PvP it is more like an enhanced Duell-System.
I like and of course i like to play Dungeons. I have the chance to get a blue (T1) or epic (T2) armor part which i can salvage on my main character or twinks for a bit of profit but the chance is slim and to get a rare artifact drop is even more rare but my guild can also earn shards for our Stronghold to progress. So i like Dungeons.
I play like 2-4 hours a day. How should i be able to earn a decent amount of rough astral diamonds? If i understand it correctly i can only get the 7,200 rough astral diamonds from my dungeons i run and thats it + 1 free epic dungeon key for an armor part to salvage. The rest is luck and i can't imagine to get enough armor parts together to get even my main character to the 24,000 rough astral diamond limit.
Honestyl i have the feeling you (Cryptic/PWE) want to dry out the astral diamond market. If you think because of exploits and bots there is too many astral diamonds in the system simply say: "We are sorry, we set all astral diamonds in the game to 0 but give a special event month for our regular player to earn enough Astral Diamonds. The reason is that recent exploits and bots destroyed the economy."
Don't announce it in advance, simply do it so the botters and exploiter have no chance to transfer their astral diamonds into items and everyone should be happy.
Sekhmet@kvetchus_
Guilds: Greycloaks, Blackcloaks, Whitecloaks, Goldcloaks, Browncloaks, Spiritcloaks, Bluecloaks, Silvercloaks, Black Dawn
Tredecim: The Cloak Alliance
In the Star Trek universe... they redistributed all of the wealth, evenly, as a global initiative. That solved a ton of issues that had been plaguing mankind for eons. Quite frankly... they essentially did it in that movie I am not supposed to talk about. You know the one.
Sure it's great to advance a piece of equipment, but who has time to do 4 artifacts, 4 gear artifacts on all characters? Certainly not me. Hopefully I can be content just working on my cleric for now, getting her boons up and farming resonance stones just for her to get her artifact gear all purple. Orange is like 10 times the effort required to get just a purple. So I can either have 1 excellent piece of equipment or everything purple on all 3 mains.
They really backed us into a corner with this. I will never be able to afford to upgrade my companion or have anything higher than lvl 7 or 8 enchantments or orange artifacts. And that sucks. After all this time and effort put into religiously crafting my Leadership it just sucks. Like I said earlier on the forum, this feels like a frozen fish slap to the head where it's screaming at me "you've wasted your life!" And that feels gross. Just gross.
Reduce GMoP down to what blue marks cost on the vendor. Blue ones are so cheap now the vendor ones are never bought anymore. If GMoP cost 25,000 off vendor I'll be happy with these changes. It will make enchants cheaper as well off AH and help everyone. That and transmute costs are cut as well cause I currently spend a million on transmutation looks for 8 chars. 50,000 per piece to transmute will be waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much.