This alone invalidates everything else you said, because you're comparing a Level 3 FAW to a Level 2 CSV. This ls like comparing a MK 5 DHC to a MK7 DHC, of course the MK7 is going to do more, it's a more powerful version. It does not matter if these two versions you're comparing take the same officer rank slot., just at a maxed out Tetryon weapons skill and Maxed out Polaron weapons skill both boost their respective weapons types by the same amount, but the first requires you be a Captain to even training it while the 2nd requires you be an admiral/general to train it. Now if you took one captain with maxed Tetryons and a copy of the same captain but could only raise Polarons by 7 points instead of the full 9 then ran a with both, you could say the Tetryons are better because they did more damage than the Polarons. While this is true, for the number of skill points spent on each, it's still comparing one maxed out weapon to one that's not maxed out.
In other words, you're comparing an grapefruit to an orange. Sure they're both citrus fruits, but the grapefruit is larger.
Now, if you want to test BFAW2 to CSV2 because you can't get CSV3 or don't have the space to slot it, that's fine, it would be a valid test because you're comparing like levels of the two skills.
Actually, no. He compared CSV2 and BFAW3 because thery are both Lt. Commander level abilities.
The point is that BFAW provides better damage at a lower cost. You need to compare according to rank (i.e. Lt. Commander skills) to get a more accurate idea of how things stack up.
But is that really the only cost to consider? There are also cooldowns to consider, and certain opportunity costs. In case of beams - using beams or dual beam banks means that your inherent damage potential is lower - being able to provide short damage spikes that can get closer to cannon damage at the expense of not having always good damage might be a valid trade-off.
From playing on tribble. I noticed that against a single Target, FAW works the way it normally seems to.. But against MULTIPLE targets, Faw becomes a BEAST.
FAW becomes a "beast" at 2 targets..."multiple" is giving it meaning it cannot fulfill. What noone is making known is that to keep up the DPS you have to keep up the weapon power. To keep up the weapon power you have to use a battery, putting those batteries on CD. Have to slot Emergency power to weapons instead of heals, DEM, BP, EWP AF.....making your bank on FAW.
If you do a simple Circle, or keep all your targets on a broadside arc, your doing the same damage to EVERY target with each beam that fires and hits the Non targeted targets. Single Beam Arrays are definitely the way to go for this tactic. As you get more weapons firing if you get a broadside. And if you have an Engineer, or are an Engineer, and can keep your weapon power HIGH during the FAW firing sequence, it can simply destroy not just 1 target, but MULTIPLE targets in your Weapon Arcs. You become a sphere of death with FAW 3 while keeping on target.
True that you can form a team and try an monopolize that tactic. Is it viable? NO it isn't....why?
1) Scramble sensors will make you shoot your pals...forcing you to either not fire till FAW expires or blow up temmates
2) Target weapons will reduce FAW DPS significantly to where it will tickle most shields
3) Aceton Field will negate DPS of any ship by 50%
4) Tykens Rift will lower weapon power
5) Boarding party can offline weapons
6) VM can offline weapons
I can see how this would definitely be a problem if EVERYONE has Faw. 1 Target is called, and EVERYONE turns on FAW. This might very well be the death of Balling up strategies.
Then it will force new tactics to not always be in a ball.
A) you wanna fly around in a circle-ball to keep close to your healers..chances are you will both be targets you wanna fly around in your ball of mines...chances are you will be a target
C) you wanna sit at your spawn point lolly-gagging.....chance are you will be a target.
D) you wanna be a deuterium runner...chances are you will be a target.
Tactics need to change then as Beam use needs to evolve so players can be Beam escorts....so players with 2 TAC slots can take FAW 1 and add a little more DPS to overcome team healing......the other TAC slot needs to have Tac team.
So, now you have to give up Target subsystems or torpedo buffs. This puts the Excelsior, Kharfi, BoP and Escorts as the only ships that can make use of these changes.
BFAW on tribble does not have any down sides to it. Its not like cannon powers where you have to time them properly, and consider your range to target and cooldowns, and especially your arc. Its not like beam overload or target subsystems where they need to be timed or used more strategically. FAW is a power to use every time its up. Why not? There is no downside, no extra power drain, no concern for your firing arcs, certainly no loss of DPS against your primary target.
It is, in fact, a gain of DPS against your primary target, and you clear spam at the same time! The tribble FAW is best described as both situational uses of the current FAW on holodeck, combined. You get the extra DPS against an isolated target, and you get spam clearing in a target rich environment, at the same time. By comparison, cannons suffer a myriad of tradoffs for what is a marginally higher damage, and only in certain situations.
It is far easier to get a broadside going than to get cannons on target and in range. Cannons also require more timing because of shorter duration powers, range, and arc issues. You can't fire off CRF every time you have a target in your arc. You have to wait till you are under 5km if you want to do any damage. Under 2k is ideal, but at that point you have to gauge whether you can keep them in your arc for the duration. And if not you have to save CRF until you line up your vectors. Tribble FAW, by comparison has no real usage problems.
For AOE consideration, yes CSV damages 3 targets, assuming you can even keep 3 targets in your arc. Even if you can, though, who cares? You can't torpedo all three, only one. Only one is actually getting focus fired, and only that one is likely to actually die. The other two fly off into the sunset and heal up, the damage irrelevant. Alternatively, there is potentially another 300 degrees of the sphere that is your firing arc that has spam left over.
CSV is primarily for spam clearing in PVP, not for serious damage, either single target or AOE. But FAW does it better against weak targets like fighters and especially mines, and there are no issues with lining up the arc that is much harder to do with CSV. No escort captain uses CSV for anything resembling single target damage, unless their CRF is on cooldown.
But FAW on tribble IS a single target damage buff AND an AOE spam clearing tool. It is CSV and CRF combined, only better, since the AOE has no arc limitations like CSV, and it takes up a lower rank slot than the cannon powers.
Will cannons do more DPS? Yes, in theory. In reality though, an escort still has to line up the shot and have all the right conditions come together to do that. But if a cruiser is now pounding on them with FAW, especially a tac/excelsior, they probably will not get the chance to finish their attack run, and may need to break off early before they can do what they came to do, if they aren't destroyed outright.
As a side note, suggesting boarding parties as a potential counter to FAW, that is just hilarious.
The point is that BFAW provides better damage at a lower cost. You need to compare according to rank (i.e. Lt. Commander skills) to get a more accurate idea of how things stack up.
Actually, no. He compared CSV2 and BFAW3 because thery are both Lt. Commander level abilities.
Yes, I know this, but ya'll should know that just because they are the same rank level does not make them have the same bonus potential. Case in point, both Gravity Well 2 and Gravity Well 3 are Cmdr level skills. Are they equal? No, because one is a stronger version than the other. Tyken's Rift 2 is LtCmdr while Tyken's rift 3 is Commander. Would you compare Tyken's Rift 3 with Gravity Well 2, just because both are Commander level skills? No, you would compare TR3 to GW3 because they are both level 3 versions of their skill. In this case, since GW2 and 3 are both Cmdr level, noone would ever compare GW2 to TR3.
Should CSV and BFAW be the same rank for the same skill level? Yes, Are they? No, but you still have to compare equal skill levels to have valid results, due to the difference in the bonus from each level of a skill, which wouldn't matter what rank slot the skill goes in.
As for the skill cost, that just means making the choice between skills for that slot and how much to train the BOff to max in the skill. Since We have UNLIMITED BOff skill points, that training cost is unimportant.
BFAW on tribble does not have any down sides to it..
done much PvP lately? Half the matches you're hit with Scramble every 20 seconds... Assuming that FAW can still not be stopped, you're going to be a SERIOUS liability to your team, and barly a threath to your enemy.... In these (most) matches equipping FAW would be a complete waste of a tac station...
PS: What is it with people and beams?? "NOOOO a BEAM should NOT be able to kill me!!! Only cannons and torps should!" seriously, I don't get it... And we don't have any other beam-skill that increases DPS. (notice I said DPS, not damage)
done much PvP lately? Half the matches you're hit with Scramble every 20 seconds... Assuming that FAW can still not be stopped, you're going to be a SERIOUS liability to your team, and barly a threath to your enemy.... In these (most) matches equipping FAW would be a complete waste of a tac station...
PS: What is it with people and beams?? "NOOOO a BEAM should NOT be able to kill me!!! Only cannons and torps should!" seriously, I don't get it... And we don't have any other beam-skill that increases DPS. (notice I said DPS, not damage)
I have to completely disagree with the idea that scrambling is a dangerous issue with FAW.
If we assume that you can keep your primary target targeted then your random firing beams are the only potential problems. However, the thing is, those are still able to target enemies, and enemy spam. In effect, the number of potential targets doubled, which basically means half your random damage goes to your team and team spam the other to the enemy team. But that is how FAW works currently scrambled, and no one has ever been destroyed by random firing FAW, scrambled or otherwise, its only a threat to spam. Errant beams and cannon shots happen all the time with scramble sensors and the random component of FAW woudn't be any different than that if you keep mashing the spacebar.
Now if we go and assume that you can't keep your primary target targetted and start focus firing your teammates, then its not different than anything else while scrambled. You can get scrambled and broadside your teammates already, or scramble and CRF your teammates or whatever. Its no different from any other scrambled situation. All you do is switch targets and/or lay off the spacebar to prevent it.
All you do is switch targets and/or lay off the spacebar to prevent it.
Well FAW will keep firing even if you never touched your spacebar. And SS makes target jump all over the place. I'd estimate that if you have the equal number of friends and enemies in front of you, you'll deal close to half your damage to friendlies. Spacebar pressed or not.
And even if we assume that only the secondary attack will hit outside your main target, you still get a reduced effect of 50% from that, compared to the 200% you get from CSV. Yes, CSV can be scrambled too, but it's a LOT easier to keep friendlies out of arc, and you can just stop firing and reposition yourself if a friendly moves into arc.
I still say FAW need a better boost, or it will remain a dead skill that noone uses, just like it is today! (except for mine clearing, and if we're to mix canon into it, that is not the right use. In the shows they use the FAW command when they want to dish out maximal damage to ONE OR more targets!)
PS: I just can't understand why people are opposed to adding new stuff to space combat... Is change really that scary?
Yes, CSV can be scrambled too, but it's a LOT easier to keep friendlies out of arc, and you can just stop firing and reposition yourself if a friendly moves into arc.
Reposition my self? Why? It's their fault they are in my arc. THEY should move out of my arc.
I have to completely disagree with the idea that scrambling is a dangerous issue with FAW.
If we assume that you can keep your primary target targeted then your random firing beams are the only potential problems. However, the thing is, those are still able to target enemies, and enemy spam. In effect, the number of potential targets doubled, which basically means half your random damage goes to your team and team spam the other to the enemy team. But that is how FAW works currently scrambled, and no one has ever been destroyed by random firing FAW, scrambled or otherwise, its only a threat to spam. Errant beams and cannon shots happen all the time with scramble sensors and the random component of FAW woudn't be any different than that if you keep mashing the spacebar.
Now if we go and assume that you can't keep your primary target targetted and start focus firing your teammates, then its not different than anything else while scrambled. You can get scrambled and broadside your teammates already, or scramble and CRF your teammates or whatever. Its no different from any other scrambled situation. All you do is switch targets and/or lay off the spacebar to prevent it.
When you get scrambled your current target is deselected automatically. So, no you don't get to keep your primary target. You have to find them and reselect amidst all the targets that now appear to be friendly. All players, mines, fighters, etc appear as friendly to you so instead of clearing those enemy pets/mines you could be clearing your own teams pets/mines.
Well FAW will keep firing even if you never touched your spacebar. And SS makes target jump all over the place. I'd estimate that if you have the equal number of friends and enemies in front of you, you'll deal close to half your damage to friendlies. Spacebar pressed or not.
And even if we assume that only the secondary attack will hit outside your main target, you still get a reduced effect of 50% from that, compared to the 200% you get from CSV. Yes, CSV can be scrambled too, but it's a LOT easier to keep friendlies out of arc, and you can just stop firing and reposition yourself if a friendly moves into arc.
I still say FAW need a better boost, or it will remain a dead skill that noone uses, just like it is today! (except for mine clearing, and if we're to mix canon into it, that is not the right use. In the shows they use the FAW command when they want to dish out maximal damage to ONE OR more targets!)
PS: I just can't understand why people are opposed to adding new stuff to space combat... Is change really that scary?
Well a couple of things real quick. First, I really don't like using Scramble Sensors as a credible counterpoint to FaW or CSV as there are an awful lot of people who agree SS has some definite issues. It's just bad practice to try balancing a skill with the use of an arguably broke skill. In fact I'm going to go out on a limb and predict SS is the next skill to get tweaked.
Second, I'd say we take a look at BFaW on its own instead of trying to compare it to CSV. Currently CSV does a fairly good job versus spam...exactly what it is intended for. Does BFaW not do the same? It seems to me what you guys want is not a skill that is useful at clearing out spam but rather a skill that can be manipulated to greatly increase your DPS....something more akin to the last FaW which many people did not like.
Third, I'm hesitant about the introduction of new space skills to PvP based off the terrible track record Cryptic has earned in that department. Show of hands...how many trust Cryptic when it comes to properly testing new space skills, new ships, or new powers? PvP right now has so many seriously stupid issues right now I'd rather see them stop adding more TRIBBLE to the pot and start fixing this nut roll first.
Suggesting boarding parties as a potential counter to FAW, that is just hilarious.
I don't see the point. Are you both knocking it because you: don't use it, Think it is worthless or figure it gets shot down?
I can say this...It works. When i fly my cruiser you will get boarded even with FAW, no or changed. It is just as much timing as using trico's and such. It also makes you have to use a team to clear it putting the rest of your teams on CD. Toss in SS spam and you kinda see how it will be useful. Even with the new FAW it is countered....kinda the point i was also trying to make.
Complex junk like boarding parties, tricobalts, etc. do not worth at top tier pvp. Same thing goes with power draining builds, hold builds, subsystem targeting, etc. that all require perfect combos that are difficult to repeat and easily hard countered.
It seems to me what you guys want is not a skill that is useful at clearing out spam but rather a skill that can be manipulated to greatly increase your DPS.....
Yes, I would like that. Beams don't have the burst of cannons, so a skill that can make beams give more DPS would be much appreciated. That said, I would be very happy if the secondary attack from the proposed FAW cycled between all targets in arc, rather than staying on one.
adding more TRIBBLE to the pot and start fixing this nut roll first.
I can't remember a single space ability added to the game since launch... only spam (oh, the Nebula detection grid, Ablative Armor and the B'rel enhanced battle-cloak, but they hardly add anything to the gameplay...)
Yes, I would like that. Beams don't have the burst of cannons, so a skill that can make beams give more DPS would be much appreciated. That said, I would be very happy if the secondary attack from the proposed FAW cycled between all targets in arc, rather than staying on one.
Beam: Fire at Will will now attack up to two targets with each beam weapon, the user's current target having priority if within arc while the potential second target being selected randomly within arc. This makes it possible to use FAW as a damage buff against a single target, while gaining additional AoE attacks.
This compares to Cannon: Scatter Volley which currently attacks up to three targets with each cannon weapon, the user's current target having priority if within arc while the potential second and third targets being selected based on distance from the user within arc. Cannon: Scatter Volley can be used as a damage buff against a single target, while gaining a concentrated AoE around that primary target.
Comparison summary:
Beam: Fire at Will attacks up to two targets, but each attack's damage buff is greater. With beams having a wider arc and the secondary target being random, the AoE is less concentrated.
Cannon: Scatter Volley attacks up to three targets, but each attack's damage buff is smaller. With cannons having a narrow arc and the addtional targets selected based on distance from the user, the AoE is more concentrated and controlled.
This improvement should reach Tribble at the end of next week.
-snix
Each, individual beam's secondary attack is randomly determined within that weapons full firing arc. If you have 8 Beam Arrays, all 8 of those secondary attacks will randomly target within their arcs, using precisely the same mechanics as the current, Live version of BFAW. This 'should' be employed on a per-pulse basis, however, if, in actual implementation, it is keeping only two targets (the selected target and a single, random, secondary target) under fire, then this is either unintended, or a significant decrease in the utility of BFAW.
(I believe that the former effect is what you want it do (and, I believe, what it 'should' do), but it may be that I am mis-interpreting what you hope for this power to do, if so, I am sorry, and would ask that you clarify. )
I can't remember a single space ability added to the game since launch... only spam (oh, the Nebula detection grid, Ablative Armor and the B'rel enhanced battle-cloak, but they hardly add anything to the gameplay...)
Well... There were the "Fleet" powers (Tactical, Engineering, and Science), when they raised the level-cap...
(I believe that the former effect is what you want it do (and, I believe, what it 'should' do), but it may be that I am mis-interpreting what you hope for this power to do, if so, I am sorry, and would ask that you clarify. )
What I want, I seem to get!
I want the ability to give higher damage to my primary target than unbuffed beams. The secondary beam I'd be happy no matter where goes... Though I'd like all arrays to be selecting targets randomly for each pulse, if only for the cool disco-ball effect!
... doesn't do anything for the energy drain from weapons anymore.
If you use Beam Overload, it's a good choice.
Very common misconception. The only thing weapon drain changes did was give you energy back after a weapon is done firing, you can still regen energy between when it starts firing and when it stops. Guess that cat is out of the bag...
And EP2Ws... While you cannot overcap your weaponpower to the same extent anymore, you can get to 135.. The first weapon doesnt drain, so youre looking at -70...
Very common misconception. The only thing weapon drain changes did was give you energy back after a weapon is done firing, you can still regen energy between when it starts firing and when it stops. Guess that cat is out of the bag...
This is true.
Was still amazed when testing a cannon turret boat and found that the EPS console kept my power level higher than when i wasn't using it.
While you cannot overcap your weaponpower to the same extent anymore, you can get to 135..
No 125 is the only cap now. I asked the question if the 135 hardcap is still there or if 125 is the one counting cap in the OPVP-Chat no long ago. As the answers were contradicting each other i decided to test it myself. The result was that 125 is the maximum and further power through consoles or similar things that go beyond 125 are of no effect.
No 125 is the only cap now. I asked the question if the 135 hardcap is still there or if 125 is the one counting cap in the OPVP-Chat no long ago. As the answers were contradicting each other i decided to test it myself. The result was that 125 is the maximum and further power through consoles or similar things that go beyond 125 are of no effect.
You can add as much power as you want beyond 125 with consoles or buffs, but no damage calculation will account for any power level > 125. However, under heavy power drain, the "floor" that your power bottoms at will be fully increased by all of these effects, at least to the point that it again caps the effective power level at 125. It's still possible, with buffs and consoles that would put your idle power level well above 125, to have weapon power while all weapons are firing that remains at 100+. Remove any of those items, and you'll see the floor that your power level drops to go down when all weapons are firing. The floor for the Beam Overload power drain is also raised by power level consoles; so it may bottom at 25 or 30 rather than 0, since it only drains base power and not the boosted power. This will lead to quicker recovery of full power, especially if you have one or two EPS consoles slotted.
You can add as much power as you want beyond 125 with consoles or buffs, but no damage calculation will account for any power level > 125. However, under heavy power drain, the "floor" that your power bottoms at will be fully increased by all of these effects, at least to the point that it again caps the effective power level at 125. It's still possible, with buffs and consoles that would put your idle power level well above 125, to have weapon power while all weapons are firing that remains at 100+. Remove any of those items, and you'll see the floor that your power level drops to go down when all weapons are firing. The floor for the Beam Overload power drain is also raised by power level consoles; so it may bottom at 25 or 30 rather than 0, since it only drains base power and not the boosted power. This will lead to quicker recovery of full power, especially if you have one or two EPS consoles slotted.
Are you sure about the floor for BOv, because I use BOv on my cruiser right now with my power at 125 and I spike a Weapon battery and hit a BOv my drain still shows the floor at 75 as opposed 85.
Originally Posted by Dassem_Ultor
done much PvP lately? Half the matches you're hit with Scramble every 20 seconds... Assuming that FAW can still not be stopped, you're going to be a SERIOUS liability to your team, and barly a threath to your enemy.... In these (most) matches equipping FAW would be a complete waste of a tac station...
PS: What is it with people and beams?? "NOOOO a BEAM should NOT be able to kill me!!! Only cannons and torps should!" seriously, I don't get it... And we don't have any other beam-skill that increases DPS. (notice I said DPS, not damage)
I have to completely disagree with the idea that scrambling is a dangerous issue with FAW.
If we assume that you can keep your primary target targeted then your random firing beams are the only potential problems. [...]
I wonder if this guy has ever been hit by scramble III and not immediatly been purged...
Anyway. Whats all this fuzz about? Seriously, how many escorts out there use high ranking CSV? From my experience most people prefere CRF, due to the higer single target dps. After all, you want to pop that target for sure, don't you? I bet many players haven't even got a lower rank CSV equipped.
So CSV ups your dps and provides (semi-)aoe, as does BFAW now. Still cannons have a higher base dmg, and you escort guys still have the speed and maneuverability to keep thoes cannons aimed at a close target, giving you the chance to take advantage of it.
You're freaking out because a cruiser has now the same capability to fire at multiple targets without the loss of main target dps?
Ok, it's way easier for them with a 250° arc, but you do realise that single arrays have a even lower dps than dual beams, don't you? And you do realise that most cruisers can only fit FAW I and II and that 8 beams drain quite a bit of juice? ... k, I see there's no time to think about it when the sky is falling.
Anyway, can't argue with believes, even most rational and enlightening posts of guys like BigRed seem to go by unnoticed... sad.
Btw, how many of you guys can honestly say that, what you write here is not based on your believes but actual game play experience with the discussed mechanics? Like from several nice "5 vs 5"s on tribble?
My guess is that most haven't even seen the tribble changes with their very own eyes. Talking like a blind about colors...
Comments
Actually, no. He compared CSV2 and BFAW3 because thery are both Lt. Commander level abilities.
True that you can form a team and try an monopolize that tactic. Is it viable? NO it isn't....why?
1) Scramble sensors will make you shoot your pals...forcing you to either not fire till FAW expires or blow up temmates
2) Target weapons will reduce FAW DPS significantly to where it will tickle most shields
3) Aceton Field will negate DPS of any ship by 50%
4) Tykens Rift will lower weapon power
5) Boarding party can offline weapons
6) VM can offline weapons
Then it will force new tactics to not always be in a ball.
A) you wanna fly around in a circle-ball to keep close to your healers..chances are you will both be targets
C) you wanna sit at your spawn point lolly-gagging.....chance are you will be a target.
D) you wanna be a deuterium runner...chances are you will be a target.
Tactics need to change then as Beam use needs to evolve so players can be Beam escorts....so players with 2 TAC slots can take FAW 1 and add a little more DPS to overcome team healing......the other TAC slot needs to have Tac team.
So, now you have to give up Target subsystems or torpedo buffs. This puts the Excelsior, Kharfi, BoP and Escorts as the only ships that can make use of these changes.
It is, in fact, a gain of DPS against your primary target, and you clear spam at the same time! The tribble FAW is best described as both situational uses of the current FAW on holodeck, combined. You get the extra DPS against an isolated target, and you get spam clearing in a target rich environment, at the same time. By comparison, cannons suffer a myriad of tradoffs for what is a marginally higher damage, and only in certain situations.
It is far easier to get a broadside going than to get cannons on target and in range. Cannons also require more timing because of shorter duration powers, range, and arc issues. You can't fire off CRF every time you have a target in your arc. You have to wait till you are under 5km if you want to do any damage. Under 2k is ideal, but at that point you have to gauge whether you can keep them in your arc for the duration. And if not you have to save CRF until you line up your vectors. Tribble FAW, by comparison has no real usage problems.
For AOE consideration, yes CSV damages 3 targets, assuming you can even keep 3 targets in your arc. Even if you can, though, who cares? You can't torpedo all three, only one. Only one is actually getting focus fired, and only that one is likely to actually die. The other two fly off into the sunset and heal up, the damage irrelevant. Alternatively, there is potentially another 300 degrees of the sphere that is your firing arc that has spam left over.
CSV is primarily for spam clearing in PVP, not for serious damage, either single target or AOE. But FAW does it better against weak targets like fighters and especially mines, and there are no issues with lining up the arc that is much harder to do with CSV. No escort captain uses CSV for anything resembling single target damage, unless their CRF is on cooldown.
But FAW on tribble IS a single target damage buff AND an AOE spam clearing tool. It is CSV and CRF combined, only better, since the AOE has no arc limitations like CSV, and it takes up a lower rank slot than the cannon powers.
Will cannons do more DPS? Yes, in theory. In reality though, an escort still has to line up the shot and have all the right conditions come together to do that. But if a cruiser is now pounding on them with FAW, especially a tac/excelsior, they probably will not get the chance to finish their attack run, and may need to break off early before they can do what they came to do, if they aren't destroyed outright.
As a side note, suggesting boarding parties as a potential counter to FAW, that is just hilarious.
Yes, I know this, but ya'll should know that just because they are the same rank level does not make them have the same bonus potential. Case in point, both Gravity Well 2 and Gravity Well 3 are Cmdr level skills. Are they equal? No, because one is a stronger version than the other. Tyken's Rift 2 is LtCmdr while Tyken's rift 3 is Commander. Would you compare Tyken's Rift 3 with Gravity Well 2, just because both are Commander level skills? No, you would compare TR3 to GW3 because they are both level 3 versions of their skill. In this case, since GW2 and 3 are both Cmdr level, noone would ever compare GW2 to TR3.
Should CSV and BFAW be the same rank for the same skill level? Yes, Are they? No, but you still have to compare equal skill levels to have valid results, due to the difference in the bonus from each level of a skill, which wouldn't matter what rank slot the skill goes in.
As for the skill cost, that just means making the choice between skills for that slot and how much to train the BOff to max in the skill. Since We have UNLIMITED BOff skill points, that training cost is unimportant.
done much PvP lately? Half the matches you're hit with Scramble every 20 seconds... Assuming that FAW can still not be stopped, you're going to be a SERIOUS liability to your team, and barly a threath to your enemy.... In these (most) matches equipping FAW would be a complete waste of a tac station...
PS: What is it with people and beams?? "NOOOO a BEAM should NOT be able to kill me!!! Only cannons and torps should!" seriously, I don't get it... And we don't have any other beam-skill that increases DPS. (notice I said DPS, not damage)
I have to completely disagree with the idea that scrambling is a dangerous issue with FAW.
If we assume that you can keep your primary target targeted then your random firing beams are the only potential problems. However, the thing is, those are still able to target enemies, and enemy spam. In effect, the number of potential targets doubled, which basically means half your random damage goes to your team and team spam the other to the enemy team. But that is how FAW works currently scrambled, and no one has ever been destroyed by random firing FAW, scrambled or otherwise, its only a threat to spam. Errant beams and cannon shots happen all the time with scramble sensors and the random component of FAW woudn't be any different than that if you keep mashing the spacebar.
Now if we go and assume that you can't keep your primary target targetted and start focus firing your teammates, then its not different than anything else while scrambled. You can get scrambled and broadside your teammates already, or scramble and CRF your teammates or whatever. Its no different from any other scrambled situation. All you do is switch targets and/or lay off the spacebar to prevent it.
Blasphemy!
Instant fail, man. Instant epic fail.
Well FAW will keep firing even if you never touched your spacebar. And SS makes target jump all over the place. I'd estimate that if you have the equal number of friends and enemies in front of you, you'll deal close to half your damage to friendlies. Spacebar pressed or not.
And even if we assume that only the secondary attack will hit outside your main target, you still get a reduced effect of 50% from that, compared to the 200% you get from CSV. Yes, CSV can be scrambled too, but it's a LOT easier to keep friendlies out of arc, and you can just stop firing and reposition yourself if a friendly moves into arc.
I still say FAW need a better boost, or it will remain a dead skill that noone uses, just like it is today! (except for mine clearing, and if we're to mix canon into it, that is not the right use. In the shows they use the FAW command when they want to dish out maximal damage to ONE OR more targets!)
PS: I just can't understand why people are opposed to adding new stuff to space combat... Is change really that scary?
Reposition my self? Why? It's their fault they are in my arc. THEY should move out of my arc.
When you get scrambled your current target is deselected automatically. So, no you don't get to keep your primary target. You have to find them and reselect amidst all the targets that now appear to be friendly. All players, mines, fighters, etc appear as friendly to you so instead of clearing those enemy pets/mines you could be clearing your own teams pets/mines.
Well a couple of things real quick. First, I really don't like using Scramble Sensors as a credible counterpoint to FaW or CSV as there are an awful lot of people who agree SS has some definite issues. It's just bad practice to try balancing a skill with the use of an arguably broke skill. In fact I'm going to go out on a limb and predict SS is the next skill to get tweaked.
Second, I'd say we take a look at BFaW on its own instead of trying to compare it to CSV. Currently CSV does a fairly good job versus spam...exactly what it is intended for. Does BFaW not do the same? It seems to me what you guys want is not a skill that is useful at clearing out spam but rather a skill that can be manipulated to greatly increase your DPS....something more akin to the last FaW which many people did not like.
Third, I'm hesitant about the introduction of new space skills to PvP based off the terrible track record Cryptic has earned in that department. Show of hands...how many trust Cryptic when it comes to properly testing new space skills, new ships, or new powers? PvP right now has so many seriously stupid issues right now I'd rather see them stop adding more TRIBBLE to the pot and start fixing this nut roll first.
I don't see the point. Are you both knocking it because you: don't use it, Think it is worthless or figure it gets shot down?
I can say this...It works. When i fly my cruiser you will get boarded even with FAW, no or changed. It is just as much timing as using trico's and such. It also makes you have to use a team to clear it putting the rest of your teams on CD. Toss in SS spam and you kinda see how it will be useful. Even with the new FAW it is countered....kinda the point i was also trying to make.
lolz, I like the way you think!
By all that is holy, I hope you're right! I'm generally avoiding the use of SS, Scorpions and tractormines, because I feel they're extremely annoying.
Yes, I would like that. Beams don't have the burst of cannons, so a skill that can make beams give more DPS would be much appreciated. That said, I would be very happy if the secondary attack from the proposed FAW cycled between all targets in arc, rather than staying on one.
I can't remember a single space ability added to the game since launch... only spam
Since you cant overcap power anymore you only have nadion inversion left, and that has a pretty long cd.
The new BFAW:
Each, individual beam's secondary attack is randomly determined within that weapons full firing arc. If you have 8 Beam Arrays, all 8 of those secondary attacks will randomly target within their arcs, using precisely the same mechanics as the current, Live version of BFAW. This 'should' be employed on a per-pulse basis, however, if, in actual implementation, it is keeping only two targets (the selected target and a single, random, secondary target) under fire, then this is either unintended, or a significant decrease in the utility of BFAW.
(I believe that the former effect is what you want it do (and, I believe, what it 'should' do), but it may be that I am mis-interpreting what you hope for this power to do, if so, I am sorry, and would ask that you clarify.
-Big Red
Well... There were the "Fleet" powers (Tactical, Engineering, and Science), when they raised the level-cap...
Other than those, however...
EPS console.
What I want, I seem to get!
I want the ability to give higher damage to my primary target than unbuffed beams. The secondary beam I'd be happy no matter where goes... Though I'd like all arrays to be selecting targets randomly for each pulse, if only for the cool disco-ball effect!
If you use Beam Overload, it's a good choice.
Very common misconception. The only thing weapon drain changes did was give you energy back after a weapon is done firing, you can still regen energy between when it starts firing and when it stops. Guess that cat is out of the bag...
And EP2Ws... While you cannot overcap your weaponpower to the same extent anymore, you can get to 135.. The first weapon doesnt drain, so youre looking at -70...
This is true.
Was still amazed when testing a cannon turret boat and found that the EPS console kept my power level higher than when i wasn't using it.
No 125 is the only cap now. I asked the question if the 135 hardcap is still there or if 125 is the one counting cap in the OPVP-Chat no long ago. As the answers were contradicting each other i decided to test it myself. The result was that 125 is the maximum and further power through consoles or similar things that go beyond 125 are of no effect.
That EPS effect sound interesting, worth to test.
Are you sure about the floor for BOv, because I use BOv on my cruiser right now with my power at 125 and I spike a Weapon battery and hit a BOv my drain still shows the floor at 75 as opposed 85.
I wonder if this guy has ever been hit by scramble III and not immediatly been purged...
Anyway. Whats all this fuzz about? Seriously, how many escorts out there use high ranking CSV? From my experience most people prefere CRF, due to the higer single target dps. After all, you want to pop that target for sure, don't you? I bet many players haven't even got a lower rank CSV equipped.
So CSV ups your dps and provides (semi-)aoe, as does BFAW now. Still cannons have a higher base dmg, and you escort guys still have the speed and maneuverability to keep thoes cannons aimed at a close target, giving you the chance to take advantage of it.
You're freaking out because a cruiser has now the same capability to fire at multiple targets without the loss of main target dps?
Ok, it's way easier for them with a 250° arc, but you do realise that single arrays have a even lower dps than dual beams, don't you? And you do realise that most cruisers can only fit FAW I and II and that 8 beams drain quite a bit of juice? ... k, I see there's no time to think about it when the sky is falling.
Anyway, can't argue with believes, even most rational and enlightening posts of guys like BigRed seem to go by unnoticed... sad.
Btw, how many of you guys can honestly say that, what you write here is not based on your believes but actual game play experience with the discussed mechanics? Like from several nice "5 vs 5"s on tribble?
My guess is that most haven't even seen the tribble changes with their very own eyes. Talking like a blind about colors...