Yeah, I don't know. I don't think it'd matter because I don't think you can patent the mechanics of a game, just the code itself. As long as Cryptic starts from scratch with the code and art running their minigames I think they're fine.
Otherwise "jumping" as a game mechanic would require royalty payments to Miyamoto or the like.
Yeah, gameplay rules can't be patented or copyrighted, just the presentation. Might need to differentiate the playing field a little more visually but I think it's a good idea.
I would really like to know from Cryptic if they are planning to implement these great ideas that could be used after the 'F' button or within non-combat or within the ship in the future.
Is it possible for you to design a Tricorder interface concept. I would like to see the mini games hidden behind Star Trek technology.
For instance, as captain I pull out my tricorder and the camera zooms into it. You see the device with all the buttons and nobs and now what? Maybe the mini game on one side as an upclose display and the controls are the tricorder?
So pershaps the left side has a zoomed holographic like graphic that shows the mini game display. On the right side is the Tricorder with the standard display and all the buttons/nobs that you use?
Is it possible for you to design a Tricorder interface concept. I would like to see the mini games hidden behind Star Trek technology.
For instance, as captain I pull out my tricorder and the camera zooms into it. You see the device with all the buttons and nobs and now what? Maybe the mini game on one side as an upclose display and the controls are the tricorder?
So pershaps the left side has a zoomed holographic like graphic that shows the mini game display. On the right side is the Tricorder with the standard display and all the buttons/nobs that you use?
Love it! It would be nice to see some mini games and some diplomacy. It would really help round the game out. It'd be great to see something like this in an STF. While the rest of your group mates are holding off Borg, you're wetting your pants trying to unlock a secure door with your engineering officer. :eek:
OMG that is a seriously awesome idea. Even if its not Fizzbin per se just STO centric.
The guys that make Fluxx at Looney Labs already have a Monty Python edition, and a Martian edition, it certainly wouldnt be a stretch to collaborate with them to do an StarTrek edition that could be STO specific...
Rekhan or Ivan are you reading this?
Get your marketing guys to talk with their marketing guys and make it happen!
then go talk to your mini-game dev and get it in-game ;-)
OK, so, this has got to be the best idea for a minigame I've seen in a long time.
Granted, its not for a "press-F" puzzle, its more along the lines of Dabo, Poker, 3D chess, etc... but wow, what an idea. I would LOVE to see this happen.
Use Looney-Labs style and gameplay, heck even their ideas to come up with a good Fizzbin in the ST/STO style and you'd have a win/win that could be marketed in real-life as well as used in-game.
Is it possible for you to design a Tricorder interface concept. I would like to see the mini games hidden behind Star Trek technology.
For instance, as captain I pull out my tricorder and the camera zooms into it. You see the device with all the buttons and nobs and now what? Maybe the mini game on one side as an upclose display and the controls are the tricorder?
So pershaps the left side has a zoomed holographic like graphic that shows the mini game display. On the right side is the Tricorder with the standard display and all the buttons/nobs that you use?
I would imagine that the mini-games will be able to be "skinned" with an outside look that would apply to a bunch of different scenarios. It might be an LCARS default or
Some might be tricorder skin,
some might be 'engineering console' or 'medical console blue', or
'door/cell' panel, 'condiut' panel or even 'busted up computer interface skin'....
each depending on the game situation.
Hrmm, wouldn't this infringe on PopCap games' IP? Just wondering if this puzzle needs a few more differentiators to make it unique enough so Cryptic/Atari can't be sued over it. Could be nothin', but I thought I'd throw it out there.
Yea, the pure mechaics can't really be copyrighted per se, but you'd have to do it from scratch and make it look different enough not to cause problems.
But on this topic, I mentioned at one point a way to turn that to Cryptic's advantage.
why not LEVERAGE the popularity of PopCap games and co-brand some?
You might not be able to, but can you imagine Cryptic going to PopCap and saying, "Hey, work with me, lets build some really cool StarTrek themed games, you get em out in the real world and I get em in STO"
Far fetched? perhaps, but might be worth investigating.
Lots of food for thought for the development team here.
Just awesome.
-Zn
I hope the Dev team feasts on this food. Literally becomes obese with it hehe. Seriously these ideas would take quests where you currently press "F" and a beam of light somehow fixes a satellite and make them so much more fun and add a desirable repeatability to them. His ideas would add such depth and make these missions so much more fun and interesting. This guy has a golden ticket idea here. Do not let this just get passed through the digestive tracks of internal bureaucracy. USE THIS! start the ball in motion now if you haven't already.
If this was caused by us, then I'm humbled. I've been in support of the idea of mini-games since Beta. Really hoping this new round of publicity means we'll soon be seeing something like these ideas implemented.
Forget about naming a bar at DS9 after ThomastheCat, offer him a job.... NOW.
I concur. Gozer is no longer with us. There is a job opening right? I think this thread is a nice application. hehe I feel the creation of a mini-game department is in order.
Hrmm, wouldn't this infringe on PopCap games' IP? Just wondering if this puzzle needs a few more differentiators to make it unique enough so Cryptic/Atari can't be sued over it. Could be nothin', but I thought I'd throw it out there.
He only use the Popcap game as a reference to what his idea would sorta of be like. It seems his idea is far enough away from Bejeweled to be usable. Good idea for a archaeological mission though.
The Guitar Hero game would not be possible. The internet lag of sending the keypress to the server would throw off the timing in a random way. We also couldn't have the client tell the server that the player pressed the key at the right time. Someone could hack the client to always tell the server that the user timed it perfectly.
Sorry to be a bit crass but TRIBBLE THOSE HACKER FOOLS. heheThis is one of my fav ideas here hehe If they want to ruin their fun let them. Don't let them ruin mine!
EDIT: also think about this devs. I know you guys love to turn a profit. I would pay top dollar for an iphone/droid app version of these mingames. the mans ideas could net you a huge profit. just do the right thing and compensate him if you do hehe.
Knowing lifers who have skills and dedicated their free time to improving the game could get a job at Cryptic makes me more optimistic about the future than I already am. I think minigames add a new dimension to most MMOs and give a change of pace, which games can always use.
There is no reason some of these ideas have to stay inside non-combat missions though. I could see using these as part of episodes, where for instance you have to hack into a system to unlock a door where you can get to a firefight.
Personally I want 3d chess added, but first I have no idea how to play, am not sure it's really a game at all, and wonder how many people could play it adequately if it were in game. Having a set sitting in your ready room would rock though even if you didn't know how to play it well. Even 2d chess (no AI, just for humans to play against each other, should be doable and not so hard to code. UO had playable chess sets in 1997. Backgammon too.
You might want some of the minigames to be able to be automatically done by a bridge officer, or make them depending on class. It might take a science officer or engineer to hack into a computer system, for example. In this case the minigames would be tailored for the class of the player or bridge officer. It would promote interdependence on the classes for missions or allow someone to avoid the minigames they suck at.
Great work ressurecting this thread to get notice folks.
I would imagine that the mini-games will be able to be "skinned" with an outside look that would apply to a bunch of different scenarios. It might be an LCARS default or
Some might be tricorder skin,
some might be 'engineering console' or 'medical console blue', or
'door/cell' panel, 'condiut' panel or even 'busted up computer interface skin'....
each depending on the game situation.
As long as it is part of the mini game a not just a picture. I want to push the button, turn the nob and move the objects with the Tricorder. I don't want it to sit there and just be a image to one side.
I'm actually hoping that in addition to the social feature, we start seeing the mini-games like these put into a social hub where winning (or losing) can unlock missions or episodes where you interact with Ferengi and smugglers.
Which If I read it right he is suggesting that if you are a Poker/Dabo/Tongo player, you could gain enough "faction" with the local head of the game and unlock missions that you would only get if you play.
Assuming you play, it might not matter if you play and win, or play and lose,
but _playing_ the game unlocks a story arc.
I love that type of story unlock.
Another game mechanic tie-in to otherwise "fluff" mini-games was suggested a little further down the thread
If i CAN play Dabo if i want, that's ok, if there is ONE Mission where i have to beat a Ferengi in playing Dabo (in some kind of undercover mission).
Which also seemed like a reasonable idea. Using a game as part of an actual objective in a mission.
This would seem like an obvious choice for a "daily mission" ...
Not 100% in keeping with this threads theme of getting rid of 'press f 5 times' but a couple of creative ways to include mini-games in the overall fabric of STO without making them entirely social fluff. (which is ok too, dont get me wrong).
When I heard about the Dabo game I thought "swell, they're spending more time on something players will do once." Wonderful ROI <that's sarcasm btw>.
But, I like the idea of using ingame puzzles/mini-games to fix injuries - provided they're the right sort of puzzle. The right sorts of puzzles/minigames are in canon fitting with what a Captain should do, and of course be fun:
1. Diplomatic mission (You need what? Well sure we have that, but there's some alien raiders sitting on the mine, why don't you beam over and kick them off the planet for us? Take all the dirt you want.
2. Holodeck - Sir! We've figured out how to correct the problem on the holodeck, but our computer must have taken some damage too as the holodeck has spawned photonic life forms that are taking control of the ship!
3. Crafting - If a replicate one of those, and disassemble one of these, put that piece here...presto!
4. Q Puzzle - Captain, Q fixed our ship! But he's transported us to a region of space where any force is nearly immediately counteracted on. We'll have to ricochet our way out.
5. Build Puzzle - Captain, there's interference preventing our beam out with the parts, these controls probably manipulate the energy stream. If we could just figure out how to use them.
6. Assemble Puzzle - The aliens said we have everything we need, but I can't figure it out.
7. Trade Mission - Sure we can help you out captain, but in exchange you'll have to guard us to our destination
8. Mining - Aye Captain, we got the part you need, but we've been plagued by raiders...
9. In-Ship away mission - Captain! Several Klingons beamed into engineering!
Okay, so not the best of ideas, but hopefully you get the picture. Now we just some creative people to suggest real games/puzzles.
Odd that StarBasePrime hasn't posted over here. Wonder how he missed it... might have to drop him a line.
SBP if you are reading this, think about your ideas above ...
Describe a puzzle that fits each situation with a little more depth.
Now which types of more traditional game puzzles would you map those ideas to?
How would you make them mutiplayer? How would you vary their difficulty with levels?
I popped in here after seeing ThomastheCat namechecked in the latest SotG Post, that's some fantastic work you've done in the opening posts sir! Reminds me a little of the Star Trek: The Next Generation game on the good old NES, with mini-games for things like transporting or locking in orbit.
Odd that StarBasePrime hasn't posted over here. Wonder how he missed it... might have to drop him a line.
SBP if you are reading this, think about your ideas above ...
Describe a puzzle that fits each situation with a little more depth.
Now which types of more traditional game puzzles would you map those ideas to?
How would you make them mutiplayer? How would you vary their difficulty with levels?
Thanks for the PM on this, phenomenal ideas TtC! [Nack: Sorry you had to hit me with a 2x4 to get my attention, sometimes life's just like that. :eek: Thanks!!!]
You're giving me far too much credit if you think I answer those questions! I do like the questions though, particularly multi-player! The only question I can offer a possible solution for is how to vary the difficulty, and that would be via the time allotted to solve it (e.g., the more critical the wound, the less time the doctor has to save the patient).
As Nack already quoted me: I have to admit when I first heard of the Dabo mini-game my thoughts, uncharitably, ran towards great, more dev time wasted on stuff someone will do once or twice.
However, whats suggested here is a new element of play (e.g., in an away-mission you have to disarm an undetonated torpedo). This is far better than your first officer waving their tricorder and poof its done. But, as I said on another thread, I'd really like the mini-game/puzzle to be in-canon and pertinent to the problem. To this, the OP's ideas are right on target (pity about the technical issues with Guitar Hero, I could have seen "entertainment" as being a goal of a diplomatic mission an having to compete PvP against Klingons).
I doubt I can imagine any mini-games (just not that creative), but I can imagine where they might be used, and perhaps that will spark someone else to find a puzzle to match the situation.
Starbase PvP Attack - Try to disable (possibly take over) the stations automated defenses (while your fleet mates hold off enemy fire, if you get hit you have to start over - or, you go head-to-head with a defending player)
Starbase Crafting - Disassembly of Components to create schematics (possibly using time as indicator for success rating)
Starbase Crafting - Schematic Upgrades (again, possibly using time to determine the amount of the bonus)
Starbase Refining - Determining output quality
Starbase Trading - hack into a computer and steal a fleets trading schedule (e.g., prelude to queue entry, time gives a positive or negative attack bonus to the encounter)
Tinkering - a way to boost (or accidentally destroy) items
Diplomacy - Negotiating a deal with aliens (might be to challenging to find a meaningful mini-game)
Surgery - A way to heal minor/major/critical injuries
Engineering - A way to repair minor/major/critical injuries (or perhaps make things worse)
Fleet Bonus - Fleet members successfully complete a mini-game and get a bonus for the fleet. The games they pick determine the bonus and the more working the same game the greater/longer the bonus. Bonuses might work together, work against each other, or be independent of each other (like the lever system used in Vanguard's Diplomacy system).
Opening/Closing/Locking/Unlocking a door
Enabling a ship system (e.g., Fire Control, activating weapons, enabling impulse power, shields)
Getting information out of an alien computer, enabling or disabling an enemy device
Vulcan mind meld, or other race specific attribute for plot specific items
Self Destruct - Try to disable a self destruct sequence
Respawn - Rather than press a button to respawn, you dive in with your damage control team to get your ship operational.
Aid the Planet missions - Without breaking the prime directive, solve a planet's problem by showing them how their existing technologies can work in concert.
Exploration - get unique crafting schematics by solving archeological puzzles.
Break out of Jail
[What's all that about Starbases you ask? They're possibly coming in Season 3! See #122 and get ready!]
Wish I had more solutions for making mini-games more "social" building, definitely need PvP minigames! I'd also challenge posters to think about this as if they're Klingons, Romulans, or another future faction.
So, why Non-Combat games? The answer that comes to mind for me is because they seem solo-based and you don't want everyone you're grouped with standing around twiddling their thumbs while you play. So, how can we introduce these as combat-mini-games, that is it takes all the players working together to succeed?
None of those hoity-toity, high-faluten mini-games for the Feds. Dont get me wrong, I wouldnt mind, nor would I put it past Klingons to play deep thinking, strategy based games that are chess like in nature. But there would be other forms of entertainment that is much more entrenched in simple games of conflict also. Something definitly not Starfleet in any nature or stretch of the imagination.
What I want is Targ pit-fighting. A simple duel style, pet combat. Somewhere in the back area of the Great Hall courtyard, there could be a few pits. You then enter a pit fighting instances where you can request duels/pit-fights...or there can be a queue. Last thing we need the main instance being spammed.
I was hoping that the targ combat would be better than just spamming attacks(God forbid there be a block button/function). Instead, attacks would be auto-initiated by the targ based on openings created by the player. Ideally, the players would be inputing commands/inputs while the targs maneuver about posturing and feigning attacks. The idea would be the timely input of counter commands. Not inputing the proper counter within a timely manner creates an opening/expose on your targ which the oppossing targ auto attacks through.
Commands/inputs could be for various attacks/specials...which themselves have to be properly inputed in order to have the chance for it to activate if improperly countered. Commands and counters could be as easy as arrow button sequences. Counter might be inputing the opposing arrows in the sequence. Light attacks may have short sequences, but require faster counter response, like 2 secs. Heavy attacks might be more complex, but have longer counter response times, like 3-4 secs.
Of course, the option to customize our targs will be part of the fun. Even the possibility of wins being rewarded with special credits and skill points we can use to buy certain customization items(purely cosmetic) and small stat/attack bonuses.
A big meow from a small kitten to the big cat Thomas! A very cute thread with lots of ideas and purrfect graphics! *purrs* Keep it going, it's really good to have sum people who put so muchies of effort into the game to make it better.
Comments
You got Stargate in my STO!
Well, Enterprise already kinda tried that with Hoshi, so it's even canonicalish.
Anyway, yes. At least bring him on as a consultant.
Yeah, gameplay rules can't be patented or copyrighted, just the presentation. Might need to differentiate the playing field a little more visually but I think it's a good idea.
Any word from you cryptic?
Is it possible for you to design a Tricorder interface concept. I would like to see the mini games hidden behind Star Trek technology.
For instance, as captain I pull out my tricorder and the camera zooms into it. You see the device with all the buttons and nobs and now what? Maybe the mini game on one side as an upclose display and the controls are the tricorder?
So pershaps the left side has a zoomed holographic like graphic that shows the mini game display. On the right side is the Tricorder with the standard display and all the buttons/nobs that you use?
http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Tricorder
http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Starfleet_tricorder
tricorder minigame excellent idea
(Y) (Y) (Y) (Y) (Y) (Y) (Y)
"Get that #$%in' door open!!!!"
OK, so, this has got to be the best idea for a minigame I've seen in a long time.
Granted, its not for a "press-F" puzzle, its more along the lines of Dabo, Poker, 3D chess, etc... but wow, what an idea. I would LOVE to see this happen.
Use Looney-Labs style and gameplay, heck even their ideas to come up with a good Fizzbin in the ST/STO style and you'd have a win/win that could be marketed in real-life as well as used in-game.
I would imagine that the mini-games will be able to be "skinned" with an outside look that would apply to a bunch of different scenarios. It might be an LCARS default or
Some might be tricorder skin,
some might be 'engineering console' or 'medical console blue', or
'door/cell' panel, 'condiut' panel or even 'busted up computer interface skin'....
each depending on the game situation.
Yea, the pure mechaics can't really be copyrighted per se, but you'd have to do it from scratch and make it look different enough not to cause problems.
But on this topic, I mentioned at one point a way to turn that to Cryptic's advantage.
why not LEVERAGE the popularity of PopCap games and co-brand some?
You might not be able to, but can you imagine Cryptic going to PopCap and saying, "Hey, work with me, lets build some really cool StarTrek themed games, you get em out in the real world and I get em in STO"
Far fetched? perhaps, but might be worth investigating.
I hope the Dev team feasts on this food. Literally becomes obese with it hehe. Seriously these ideas would take quests where you currently press "F" and a beam of light somehow fixes a satellite and make them so much more fun and add a desirable repeatability to them. His ideas would add such depth and make these missions so much more fun and interesting. This guy has a golden ticket idea here. Do not let this just get passed through the digestive tracks of internal bureaucracy. USE THIS! start the ball in motion now if you haven't already.
The sticky has been a long time in coming. thanks Phoxe
Gosh darn right he is.
Ummmmm /signed. I too want Mr The Cat on the dev team.
We can hope.
I concur. Gozer is no longer with us. There is a job opening right? I think this thread is a nice application. hehe I feel the creation of a mini-game department is in order.
He only use the Popcap game as a reference to what his idea would sorta of be like. It seems his idea is far enough away from Bejeweled to be usable. Good idea for a archaeological mission though.
Sorry to be a bit crass but TRIBBLE THOSE HACKER FOOLS. heheThis is one of my fav ideas here hehe If they want to ruin their fun let them. Don't let them ruin mine!
EDIT: also think about this devs. I know you guys love to turn a profit. I would pay top dollar for an iphone/droid app version of these mingames. the mans ideas could net you a huge profit. just do the right thing and compensate him if you do hehe.
There is no reason some of these ideas have to stay inside non-combat missions though. I could see using these as part of episodes, where for instance you have to hack into a system to unlock a door where you can get to a firefight.
Personally I want 3d chess added, but first I have no idea how to play, am not sure it's really a game at all, and wonder how many people could play it adequately if it were in game. Having a set sitting in your ready room would rock though even if you didn't know how to play it well. Even 2d chess (no AI, just for humans to play against each other, should be doable and not so hard to code. UO had playable chess sets in 1997. Backgammon too.
You might want some of the minigames to be able to be automatically done by a bridge officer, or make them depending on class. It might take a science officer or engineer to hack into a computer system, for example. In this case the minigames would be tailored for the class of the player or bridge officer. It would promote interdependence on the classes for missions or allow someone to avoid the minigames they suck at.
Great work ressurecting this thread to get notice folks.
As long as it is part of the mini game a not just a picture. I want to push the button, turn the nob and move the objects with the Tricorder. I don't want it to sit there and just be a image to one side.
Something along the lines of this would be an amazing addition to STO, in my humble opinion.
I'm not one for mini-games, and these really peak my interest.
/sign
Thank you to the OP.
What seemed to be a couple of new ideas popped up in a thread that talked about a recent episode of the podcast STOked.
Which If I read it right he is suggesting that if you are a Poker/Dabo/Tongo player, you could gain enough "faction" with the local head of the game and unlock missions that you would only get if you play.
Assuming you play, it might not matter if you play and win, or play and lose,
but _playing_ the game unlocks a story arc.
I love that type of story unlock.
Another game mechanic tie-in to otherwise "fluff" mini-games was suggested a little further down the thread
Which also seemed like a reasonable idea. Using a game as part of an actual objective in a mission.
This would seem like an obvious choice for a "daily mission" ...
Not 100% in keeping with this threads theme of getting rid of 'press f 5 times' but a couple of creative ways to include mini-games in the overall fabric of STO without making them entirely social fluff. (which is ok too, dont get me wrong).
Thoughts?
Odd that StarBasePrime hasn't posted over here. Wonder how he missed it... might have to drop him a line.
SBP if you are reading this, think about your ideas above ...
Describe a puzzle that fits each situation with a little more depth.
Now which types of more traditional game puzzles would you map those ideas to?
How would you make them mutiplayer? How would you vary their difficulty with levels?
So, as Samuel L. Jackson likes to say in my favorite non-Star Trek Movie about Dinosaurs: "Hold on to your butts!"
Can't believe they didnt get you a job offer ;-)
but at least you got some very public recognition on an amazing thread.
Btw, any chance for a STO flavored Peggle we can play in Quark's bar or the Captin's Table.
Nice work
Thanks for the PM on this, phenomenal ideas TtC! [Nack: Sorry you had to hit me with a 2x4 to get my attention, sometimes life's just like that. :eek: Thanks!!!]
You're giving me far too much credit if you think I answer those questions! I do like the questions though, particularly multi-player! The only question I can offer a possible solution for is how to vary the difficulty, and that would be via the time allotted to solve it (e.g., the more critical the wound, the less time the doctor has to save the patient).
As Nack already quoted me: I have to admit when I first heard of the Dabo mini-game my thoughts, uncharitably, ran towards great, more dev time wasted on stuff someone will do once or twice.
However, whats suggested here is a new element of play (e.g., in an away-mission you have to disarm an undetonated torpedo). This is far better than your first officer waving their tricorder and poof its done. But, as I said on another thread, I'd really like the mini-game/puzzle to be in-canon and pertinent to the problem. To this, the OP's ideas are right on target (pity about the technical issues with Guitar Hero, I could have seen "entertainment" as being a goal of a diplomatic mission an having to compete PvP against Klingons).
I doubt I can imagine any mini-games (just not that creative), but I can imagine where they might be used, and perhaps that will spark someone else to find a puzzle to match the situation.
[What's all that about Starbases you ask?
Wish I had more solutions for making mini-games more "social" building, definitely need PvP minigames! I'd also challenge posters to think about this as if they're Klingons, Romulans, or another future faction.
So, why Non-Combat games? The answer that comes to mind for me is because they seem solo-based and you don't want everyone you're grouped with standing around twiddling their thumbs while you play. So, how can we introduce these as combat-mini-games, that is it takes all the players working together to succeed?
What I want is Targ pit-fighting. A simple duel style, pet combat. Somewhere in the back area of the Great Hall courtyard, there could be a few pits. You then enter a pit fighting instances where you can request duels/pit-fights...or there can be a queue. Last thing we need the main instance being spammed.
I was hoping that the targ combat would be better than just spamming attacks(God forbid there be a block button/function). Instead, attacks would be auto-initiated by the targ based on openings created by the player. Ideally, the players would be inputing commands/inputs while the targs maneuver about posturing and feigning attacks. The idea would be the timely input of counter commands. Not inputing the proper counter within a timely manner creates an opening/expose on your targ which the oppossing targ auto attacks through.
Commands/inputs could be for various attacks/specials...which themselves have to be properly inputed in order to have the chance for it to activate if improperly countered. Commands and counters could be as easy as arrow button sequences. Counter might be inputing the opposing arrows in the sequence. Light attacks may have short sequences, but require faster counter response, like 2 secs. Heavy attacks might be more complex, but have longer counter response times, like 3-4 secs.
Of course, the option to customize our targs will be part of the fun. Even the possibility of wins being rewarded with special credits and skill points we can use to buy certain customization items(purely cosmetic) and small stat/attack bonuses.
I mean
Wow.....
Awesome stuff there. fingers crossed they take this up and run with it and tbh put your name in the credits.
~ Eris The Vorta (Resident Swiss Kitten)