Interesting. I think, Sir, that you are getting lost in the argument here. I am not angry nor frustrated at this point. I am actually quite calm and collected. Atomic knows what I am like when I lose my temper and this I can assure you is quite calm and collected.
So please stop making assumptions as we know what that does.
Ya well you can easily see from your posts you are very frustrated. I am sorry they are not removing the skill cap. You'll just have to learn to get over it or continue to post these negative things and one day they will ban you. Then problem solved.
While I agree the cap is too low right now, that's because we should have been able to keep going to RA 10.
We're only feeling limited, because we're trapped halfway there.
Otherwise, the Cap is necessary.
Without it, players would eventually max every skill, and there wouldn't be any distinction between "classes".
Right now, if you choose to go DPS, that's what you do. If you try to Tank, you won't be as good as a dedicated Tank would be.
What is the effectiveness difference between a character that maxes the skills they use, and one that has those, and also skills they are NOT using, maxed?
NONE.
The only thing a cap enables is the selling of respecs. Players use the skills they have maxed, if they are forced to max ONE set, they only use that set. If they have everything maxed, they can USE EVERYTHING!
The game was designed for no cap. - http://www.startrekonline.com/node/397. Players were SUPPOSED to be different via bridge officers, equipment choices, and class skills. With a cap, we have barely enough to get a bunch of points in ONE ship type.
If we had unlimited points, we could have different ships, different weapon types, different loadouts for the same ships, and have the points to put into ground skills.
If we had points, we could thrash around at max level for FAR longer, filling up our skills, getting different gear sets, gearing up a fleet of ships. All of that is possible player progression that is lost, because of the cap.
Ya well you can easily see from your posts you are very frustrated. I am sorry they are not removing the skill cap. You'll just have to learn to get over it or continue to post these negative things and one day they will ban you. Then problem solved.
You would be surprised what you can be banned for. (Thats all I can say since we can't discuss moderation of the forums)
What is the effectiveness difference between a character that maxes the skills they use, and one that has skills they are NOT using maxed?
NONE.
The only thing a cap enables is the selling of respecs. Players use the skills they have maxed, if they are forced to max ONE set, they only use that set. If they have everything maxed, they can USE EVERYTHING!
The game was designed for no cap. - http://www.startrekonline.com/node/397. Players were SUPPOSED to be different via bridge officers, equipment choices, and class skills. With a cap, we have barely enough to get a bunch of points in ONE ship type.
If we had unlimited points, we could have different ships, different weapon types, different loadouts for the same ships, and have the points to put into ground skills.
If we had points, we could thrash around at max level for FAR longer, filling up our skills, getting different gear sets, gearing up a fleet of ships. All of that is possible player progression that is lost, because of the cap.
Things change tho man. I mean I know how it was and I know how it is now. Sometimes things change even after launch. My characters have been nerfed in many games. I just post my displeasure and then move on.
See, I think that is actually a misnomer in that fact that if you removed the skill cap that while it may give you and others in the anti cap community something to do. It would however effect the game in such a way as to push the content back further and theoretically forever. There needs to be a different option than removing the cap.
That's the think it isn't an answer. At best it would create more problems long term than solve in the short term. What is needed here is patience I am afraid. I can't think of any immediate fix that would solve the lack of content problem with out breaking the game overall.
I do believe you have altruistic intentions but I don't know if I would say the game is floundering. I say that cause we have no hard numbers. We have anecdotal evidence and that is all. Even that is limited. So in effect we can make a supposition that the game is floundering but that doesn't mean we are right or wrong at this point. I agree the devs need time.
Ok so other than waiting it out (not an option as no one in their right mind would pay to wait for something) What is the other option? What can they do RIGHT NOW to save people from leaving. And sure ok I get that I have no hard facts on how many people are leaving......BUT just look at the forums......tell me honestly if the signs are positive? YOU tell me this.....IF the I quit threads hadn't been banned...do you honestly believe that you could log in every day and see no evidence of them? I get that we have no hard facts but we can ONLY go on what the forums indicate.
And yes I have no other reason for doing this day in day out than to make this game awesome for EVERYONE. Why? Because it's trek. Had it been ANY other IP I would have ditched it like the used nappy that it is (currently)
What is the effectiveness difference between a character that maxes the skills they use, and one that has those, and also skills they are NOT using, maxed?
NONE.
The only thing a cap enables is the selling of respecs. Players use the skills they have maxed, if they are forced to max ONE set, they only use that set. If they have everything maxed, they can USE EVERYTHING!
The game was designed for no cap. - http://www.startrekonline.com/node/397. Players were SUPPOSED to be different via bridge officers, equipment choices, and class skills. With a cap, we have barely enough to get a bunch of points in ONE ship type.
If we had unlimited points, we could have different ships, different weapon types, different loadouts for the same ships, and have the points to put into ground skills.
If we had points, we could thrash around at max level for FAR longer, filling up our skills, getting different gear sets, gearing up a fleet of ships. All of that is possible player progression that is lost, because of the cap.
This theory has already been debunked. The skill cap isn't about selling respecs. (You get one for free and you can get more in game.)
You would be surprised what you can be banned for. (Thats all I can say since we can't discuss moderation of the forums)
I would not be surprised. I was a forum moderator on a forum that had easily 100 times as many people as this place had on a good day. One problem was people not accepting what they were being told. Also this was a sports forum for a very high profile sports channel. Talk about heated discussions etc. I finally had to quit because they didnt pay me enough to babysit those people.
Honestly, I don't think that Cryptic cares very much about these threads. If enough people were to cancel their accounts, and explain that they planned to return when their maxed-out characters could gain new levels and/or skills, then I'm sure they'd make some of these changes. But just demanding them on the board probably isn't going to accomplish anything.
BUT just look at the forums......tell me honestly if the signs are positive?
Forums full of negativity? That describes every game out there. Happy people do not come to the forums (except me that is) and post about how happy they are for the most part.
Just curious where I personally attacked you? Just because someone doesnt support your ideas and tells you that you are not the only person in the world is not attacking you. Just because a couple people have been saying things doesnt mean everyone in the game (or even the majority) think the same way. You continue to ignore most of what everyone says because they do not agree with you.
You seem to think if you just keep pressing this idea the devs will finally just give up and do what you want. Good luck with that.
Please point out where I said me personally. I did not, however it is clear when you read between the lines you are completely convinced that I am something other than what I actually am. Your words while on the surface seem quite controlled are actually scathing underneath. If you don't agree with me I am not forcing you to discuss it with me. But you seem to be hell bent on duking it out with me. Good for you. But I will NOT change my opinion just because you wish to use sarcasm and irony.
Ya well you can easily see from your posts you are very frustrated. I am sorry they are not removing the skill cap. You'll just have to learn to get over it or continue to post these negative things and one day they will ban you. Then problem solved.
Just don't go there. I mean really......don't go there.
Ok so other than waiting it out (not an option as no one in their right mind would pay to wait for something) What is the other option? What can they do RIGHT NOW to save people from leaving. And sure ok I get that I have no hard facts on how many people are leaving......BUT just look at the forums......tell me honestly if the signs are positive? YOU tell me this.....IF the I quit threads hadn't been banned...do you honestly believe that you could log in every day and see no evidence of them? I get that we have no hard facts but we can ONLY go on what the forums indicate.
And yes I have no other reason for doing this day in day out than to make this game awesome for EVERYONE. Why? Because it's trek. Had it been ANY other IP I would have ditched it like the used nappy that it is (currently)
Well to be honest with you. The forums represent a very small fraction of the overall game population. With out an hard numbers we can't do anything but speculate. Someone the other day mentioned that they saw less and less people in game. So I took it on myself to observe more to see if I could see a noticeable difference. To my surprise I didn't see a difference. I saw the normal flows based on time but from my standpoint I didn't see any major reduction. Let me note, that doesn't not mean there wasn't one it just means that I can use that to base my speculation on as well you using the forum threads for speculation.
I agree they need to keep people from leaving but there is not magic fix. Like I said above the capless system might fix the short term and break the long term. In either case it defeats your purpose.
I have some things for your reading at your leisure
I would not be surprised. I was a forum moderator on a forum that had easily 100 times as many people as this place had on a good day. One problem was people not accepting what they were being told. Also this was a sports forum for a very high profile sports channel. Talk about heated discussions etc. I finally had to quit because they didnt pay me enough to babysit those people.
I remember you saying something like this in another thread. I had forgot that was you. I don't blame you:)
Your words while on the surface seem quite controlled are actually scathing underneath.
I think you are reading more into this than there is. My words are not scathing. You are in here yelling about how the game is ending and if they do not remove the skill cap then everyone will leave etc. Yet you are still here along with I would bet most of those people who posted the "I quit" threads. This is nothing personal and I am not scathing. I thought we were having a discussion where I did not agree with what you were saying.
Honestly, I don't think that Cryptic cares very much about these threads. If enough people were to cancel their accounts, and explain that they planned to return when their maxed-out characters could gain new levels and/or skills, then I'm sure they'd make some of these changes. But just demanding them on the board probably isn't going to accomplish anything.
I remember you saying something like this in another thread. I had forgot that was you. I don't blame you:)
I see some mods volunteer to do this stuff heh. I also did help desk for years for a company which sold computers to retail end users. talk about wanting to hang myself in my cubicle...
. Yet you are still here along with I would bet most of those people who posted the "I quit" threads. .
In all fairness there was actually only two or three who did this and Bruce wasn't one of them. Believe it or not one of the people from the I quit brigade actually came back to the game.
IMO, what they should do is devise a new specialization system. One where you can't get every bonus, and use that to sell respecs and absorb playtime to get/change.
Then, remove the cap and let the players max out the system that was designed to be maxed out.
It's not going to hurt new players- the system is designed to let you level up, doing one thing well. It won't STOP doing that with no cap. Then, when new players hit max, they too can start up with the second system and start maxing other skills to increase the amount of toys they can use.
Upsides:
Cryptic sells respecs and is happy.
Current players get a short term goal to work towards and are happy.
New players aren't any more gimped then they would be, AND they get the current player content when they're ready.
I see some mods volunteer to do this stuff heh. I also did help desk for years for a company which sold computers to retail end users. talk about wanting to hang myself in my cubicle...
Oh no, I get what you are saying. I was a network engineer for a huge school district.
I got so tired of their whining I told one campus that they weren't going to get their internet back until they found the token that fell out of the ring network.
In all fairness there was actually only two or three who did this and Bruce wasn't one of them. Believe it or not one of the people from the I quit brigade actually came back to the game.
I didnt mean he posted a quit thread. I meant even tho he seems to loathe the game in its current state he continues to pay for it. It kind of debunks his whole argument about how people are leaving and the game is floundering.
IMO, what they should do is devise a new specialization system. One where you can't get every bonus, and use that to sell respecs and absorb playtime to get/change.
Then, remove the cap and let the players max out the system that was designed to be maxed out.
It's not going to hurt new players- the system is designed to let you level up, doing one thing well. It won't STOP doing that with no cap. Then, when new players hit max, they too can start up with the second system and start maxing other skills to increase the amount of toys they can use.
Upsides:
Cryptic sells respecs and is happy.
Current players get a short term goal to work towards and are happy.
New players aren't any more gimped then they would be, AND they get the current player content when they're ready.
Downsides:
The devs have to devise a new system.
They need to totally rework the current system that is for sure. There would still be a cap but it would allow more progression by adding more trees.
Oh no, I get what you are saying. I was a network engineer for a huge school district.
I got so tired of their whining I told one campus that they weren't going to get their internet back until they found the token that fell out of the ring network.
Heh you must be old school like me. I dont think anyone in this thread knows what a token ring is.
I think you are reading more into this than there is. My words are not scathing. You are in here yelling about how the game is ending and if they do not remove the skill cap then everyone will leave etc. Yet you are still here along with I would bet most of those people who posted the "I quit" threads. This is nothing personal and I am not scathing. I thought we were having a discussion where I did not agree with what you were saying.
In debates there are normally two sides...
Do not bet. Just go on what we see here on the forums. Perhaps you haven't seen many people leaving because the people you associate with are of a similar opinion to you on this game. Personally I have seen MANY people that I have come to enjoy debating with on this forum leave this game.
This is the last on the personal attacks issues that I will speak of because I just want to put that rubbish behind me. If you truly believe that you have not made ANY sarcastic remarks about peoples opinions then I find you to be at odds with the words in your posts. I have not at ANY point resorted to name calling or any similar in this or any other debate. Any anger and frustration you may be reading into my posts are directly as a result of you making comments that include foot stomping and crying/yelling.
We are trying to have a civil debate and we don't need such inflammetory remarks.
IMO, what they should do is devise a new specialization system. One where you can't get every bonus, and use that to sell respecs and absorb playtime to get/change.
Then, remove the cap and let the players max out the system that was designed to be maxed out.
It's not going to hurt new players- the system is designed to let you level up, doing one thing well. It won't STOP doing that with no cap. Then, when new players hit max, they too can start up with the second system and start maxing other skills to increase the amount of toys they can use.
Upsides:
Cryptic sells respecs and is happy.
Current players get a short term goal to work towards and are happy.
New players aren't any more gimped then they would be, AND they get the current player content when they're ready.
Downsides:
The devs have to devise a new system.
I can really get behind this. Remove the cap on the current system and implement a new system to sit along side that will keep diversity alive and kicking!
Do not bet. Just go on what we see here on the forums.
Its already been explained to you why the forums do not represent the player base. Also the supposed personal attack against you I was talking to someone else. So I dont know why you all the sudden got on this kick and ignroed the posts directed at you.
If you ever want to get back to the topic the rest of us are still here.
I can really get behind this. Remove the cap on the current system and implement a new system to sit along side that will keep diversity alive and kicking!
One thing DDO did was "reincarnation". You have your capped character right? Well you use reincarnation and you start over at level 1 but you get extra points to spend above and beyond the cap. It takes 3 times as many xp to level as it did the first time also. Once nice thing though is you get to keep all your gear so it is one heck of a lot easier to level. Once you level up then you are more powerful then a standard capped character.
I liked it because I had a hard time finding groups since i have little time to play. So starting over I could solo alot of stuff that was impossible before. I think it was a great idea. Cryptic could look to DDO for ideas. The game was about to close and now its reached 1 million players.
Its already been explained to you why the forums do not represent the player base. Also the supposed personal attack against you I was talking to someone else. So I dont know why you all the sudden got on this kick and ignroed the posts directed at you.
If you ever want to get back to the topic the rest of us are still here.
/sigh
Firstly I never said that they represent the entire playerbase.
Secondly I never said it was an attack against me personally (and I stated this also)
And thirdly.........another inflammetory remark?
Meh......w/e knock yourself out.......this is the last I will say on the matter.
Comments
Just take a minute and take a deep breath.
We can debate this without getting nasty.
Ya well you can easily see from your posts you are very frustrated. I am sorry they are not removing the skill cap. You'll just have to learn to get over it or continue to post these negative things and one day they will ban you. Then problem solved.
What is the effectiveness difference between a character that maxes the skills they use, and one that has those, and also skills they are NOT using, maxed?
NONE.
The only thing a cap enables is the selling of respecs. Players use the skills they have maxed, if they are forced to max ONE set, they only use that set. If they have everything maxed, they can USE EVERYTHING!
The game was designed for no cap. - http://www.startrekonline.com/node/397. Players were SUPPOSED to be different via bridge officers, equipment choices, and class skills. With a cap, we have barely enough to get a bunch of points in ONE ship type.
If we had unlimited points, we could have different ships, different weapon types, different loadouts for the same ships, and have the points to put into ground skills.
If we had points, we could thrash around at max level for FAR longer, filling up our skills, getting different gear sets, gearing up a fleet of ships. All of that is possible player progression that is lost, because of the cap.
Agreed Sir!!!
You would be surprised what you can be banned for.
Things change tho man. I mean I know how it was and I know how it is now. Sometimes things change even after launch. My characters have been nerfed in many games. I just post my displeasure and then move on.
Ok so other than waiting it out (not an option as no one in their right mind would pay to wait for something) What is the other option? What can they do RIGHT NOW to save people from leaving. And sure ok I get that I have no hard facts on how many people are leaving......BUT just look at the forums......tell me honestly if the signs are positive? YOU tell me this.....IF the I quit threads hadn't been banned...do you honestly believe that you could log in every day and see no evidence of them? I get that we have no hard facts but we can ONLY go on what the forums indicate.
And yes I have no other reason for doing this day in day out than to make this game awesome for EVERYONE. Why? Because it's trek. Had it been ANY other IP I would have ditched it like the used nappy that it is (currently)
This theory has already been debunked. The skill cap isn't about selling respecs. (You get one for free and you can get more in game.)
I would not be surprised. I was a forum moderator on a forum that had easily 100 times as many people as this place had on a good day. One problem was people not accepting what they were being told. Also this was a sports forum for a very high profile sports channel. Talk about heated discussions etc. I finally had to quit because they didnt pay me enough to babysit those people.
Forums full of negativity? That describes every game out there. Happy people do not come to the forums (except me that is) and post about how happy they are for the most part.
Please point out where I said me personally. I did not, however it is clear when you read between the lines you are completely convinced that I am something other than what I actually am. Your words while on the surface seem quite controlled are actually scathing underneath. If you don't agree with me I am not forcing you to discuss it with me. But you seem to be hell bent on duking it out with me. Good for you. But I will NOT change my opinion just because you wish to use sarcasm and irony.
Just don't go there. I mean really......don't go there.
Well to be honest with you. The forums represent a very small fraction of the overall game population. With out an hard numbers we can't do anything but speculate. Someone the other day mentioned that they saw less and less people in game. So I took it on myself to observe more to see if I could see a noticeable difference. To my surprise I didn't see a difference. I saw the normal flows based on time but from my standpoint I didn't see any major reduction. Let me note, that doesn't not mean there wasn't one it just means that I can use that to base my speculation on as well you using the forum threads for speculation.
I agree they need to keep people from leaving but there is not magic fix. Like I said above the capless system might fix the short term and break the long term. In either case it defeats your purpose.
I have some things for your reading at your leisure
http://www.massively.com/2010/01/28/captains-log-the-great-skill-cap-debate/
http://www.massively.com/2010/01/25/skill-cap-changes-hit-star-trek-onlines-open-beta/
http://mmovoices.ning.com/profiles/blogs/whos-fault-is-it
http://mmovoices.ning.com/profiles/blogs/the-skill-cap-issue
I remember you saying something like this in another thread. I had forgot that was you. I don't blame you:)
I had a feeling you were gonna say that
I think you are reading more into this than there is. My words are not scathing. You are in here yelling about how the game is ending and if they do not remove the skill cap then everyone will leave etc. Yet you are still here along with I would bet most of those people who posted the "I quit" threads. This is nothing personal and I am not scathing. I thought we were having a discussion where I did not agree with what you were saying.
In debates there are normally two sides...
This is just like any other game with a cap.
I see some mods volunteer to do this stuff heh. I also did help desk for years for a company which sold computers to retail end users. talk about wanting to hang myself in my cubicle...
In all fairness there was actually only two or three who did this and Bruce wasn't one of them. Believe it or not one of the people from the I quit brigade actually came back to the game.
Then, remove the cap and let the players max out the system that was designed to be maxed out.
It's not going to hurt new players- the system is designed to let you level up, doing one thing well. It won't STOP doing that with no cap. Then, when new players hit max, they too can start up with the second system and start maxing other skills to increase the amount of toys they can use.
Upsides:
Cryptic sells respecs and is happy.
Current players get a short term goal to work towards and are happy.
New players aren't any more gimped then they would be, AND they get the current player content when they're ready.
Downsides:
The devs have to devise a new system.
Oh no, I get what you are saying. I was a network engineer for a huge school district.
I got so tired of their whining I told one campus that they weren't going to get their internet back until they found the token that fell out of the ring network.
I didnt mean he posted a quit thread. I meant even tho he seems to loathe the game in its current state he continues to pay for it. It kind of debunks his whole argument about how people are leaving and the game is floundering.
They need to totally rework the current system that is for sure. There would still be a cap but it would allow more progression by adding more trees.
Heh you must be old school like me. I dont think anyone in this thread knows what a token ring is.
Do not bet. Just go on what we see here on the forums. Perhaps you haven't seen many people leaving because the people you associate with are of a similar opinion to you on this game. Personally I have seen MANY people that I have come to enjoy debating with on this forum leave this game.
This is the last on the personal attacks issues that I will speak of because I just want to put that rubbish behind me. If you truly believe that you have not made ANY sarcastic remarks about peoples opinions then I find you to be at odds with the words in your posts. I have not at ANY point resorted to name calling or any similar in this or any other debate. Any anger and frustration you may be reading into my posts are directly as a result of you making comments that include foot stomping and crying/yelling.
We are trying to have a civil debate and we don't need such inflammetory remarks.
I can really get behind this. Remove the cap on the current system and implement a new system to sit along side that will keep diversity alive and kicking!
WELL DONE!!
Its already been explained to you why the forums do not represent the player base. Also the supposed personal attack against you I was talking to someone else. So I dont know why you all the sudden got on this kick and ignroed the posts directed at you.
If you ever want to get back to the topic the rest of us are still here.
Except the capless system would break it more
I liked it because I had a hard time finding groups since i have little time to play. So starting over I could solo alot of stuff that was impossible before. I think it was a great idea. Cryptic could look to DDO for ideas. The game was about to close and now its reached 1 million players.
/sigh
Firstly I never said that they represent the entire playerbase.
Secondly I never said it was an attack against me personally (and I stated this also)
And thirdly.........another inflammetory remark?
Meh......w/e knock yourself out.......this is the last I will say on the matter.