The OP's post title is absolutely absurd and based on 0 facts. No game in history has ever died due to death penalties. EQ 1 had the harshest death penalties in its heydey - corpse runs, lost xp - yet it was hot hot hot - and still alive TODAY! I have friends who still play it.
Eve Online has very harsh death penalties - you blow up, you lose your ship and its stuff, but they have insurance that pays for most of the ship. Eve Online has a huge enough following to keep it going strong, with FREE content updates even.
Stop being so dramatic, and stop complaining about death penalties. They are a fact of nearly EVERY game out there, even WoW, the king of casual MMOs.
Without death penalties, we have no sense of danger. No sense of loss. It causes the game to feel too safe. I want to feel on edge, I want to feel loss. That's why pretty much every MMO ever made has some form of death penalty.
The OP's post title is absolutely absurd and based on 0 facts. No game in history has ever died due to death penalties. EQ 1 had the harshest death penalties in its heydey - corpse runs, lost xp - yet it was hot hot hot - and still alive TODAY! I have friends who still play it.
Eve Online has very harsh death penalties - you blow up, you lose your ship and its stuff, but they have insurance that pays for most of the ship. Eve Online has a huge enough following to keep it going strong, with FREE content updates even.
Stop being so dramatic, and stop complaining about death penalties. They are a fact of nearly EVERY game out there, even WoW, the king of casual MMOs.
Without death penalties, we have no sense of danger. No sense of loss. It causes the game to feel too safe. I want to feel on edge, I want to feel loss. That's why pretty much every MMO ever made has some form of death penalty.
Did you read my post at all?
Short version, fix the game and then think about implementing a Death Penalty.
Death Penalties have been the bane of MMOs since EQ1, all you who want death penalties have no clue what your asking for.
Go back to EQ1 in its heyday and tell me how fun a 3 hour corpse run is into the depths of a raid dungeon, how fun sitting LFGing for help getting yoru corpse before it decayed taking ALL Of your gear with it.
Death Penalties are exactly why I dont play Eve and why Eve will always be a second tier MMO.
When you add Death Penalties to an MMO it screams "we ran out of things so we need to slow everyone down"
and im an Admiral already so it wont slow my leveling down, just keep me out of PvP, stop me from making a Klingon which for now is all pvp and keep me out of open teams, open raids and anythign where I have to rely on slackers who dont take time to study their ships, skills and gear and know their roles,
In short it will be WoW End game elitisim raiding from level 1. Hell even WoW doesnt have a death penalty worth mentioning unless your a tank (which I was) 4-20 gold repairs on per raid that nets 100-200 gold off loot alone, yawn.
Death Penalties are only enjoyable to PvPers who like to "TRIBBLE" over people. When they say "yay death will have meaning now" wht they are saying is "yay I can get my jollies blowing up people in pvp and TRIBBLE them out of (XP, Credits, Gear, Ships, insert DP of choice here). there is NO meaningful reason to add death penalties to the PvE game.
Death Penalties have been the bane of MMOs since EQ1, all you who want death penalties have no clue what your asking for.
Go back to EQ1 in its heyday and tell me how fun a 3 hour corpse run is into the depths of a raid dungeon, how fun sitting LFGing for help getting yoru corpse before it decayed taking ALL Of your gear with it.
Death Penalties are exactly why I dont play Eve and why Eve will always be a second tier MMO.
When you add Death Penalties to an MMO it screams "we ran out of things so we need to slow everyone down"
and im an Admiral already so it wont slow my leveling down, just keep me out of PvP, stop me from making a Klingon which for now is all pvp and keep me out of open teams, open raids and anythign where I have to rely on slackers who dont take time to study their ships, skills and gear and know their roles,
In short it will be WoW End game elitisim raiding from level 1. Hell even WoW doesnt have a death penalty worth mentioning unless your a tank (which I was) 4-20 gold repairs on per raid that nets 100-200 gold off loot alone, yawn.
Death Penalties are only enjoyable to PvPers who like to "TRIBBLE" over people. When they say "yay death will have meaning now" wht they are saying is "yay I can get my jollies blowing up people in pvp and TRIBBLE them out of (XP, Credits, Gear, Ships, insert DP of choice here). there is NO meaningful reason to add death penalties to the PvE game.
You pick examples of hardcore penalties. DP like in EVE or EQ1 or PotBS will not find its way to STO, rest assured. It's gonna be a dp-lite. Likewise, PvP often operates under special rules in many games, so don't expect that the gank-shaft is necessarily on the horizon.
There are meaningful reasons, important to many people like yerself. No one's really going to suffer from the dp unless they're way zoned out anyway, or drunk, or sleepwalking, or have been risen from the dead in a Voodoo ceremony. We'll all be fine.
Cryptic will never lose subscribers because there is no Death Penalty. They will lose subscribers if a Death Penalty is implemented. Watch and see.
Tell us Cryptic how you are going to deal with the people who are sucked into a deep space encounter and their ship is blown up? It's happened to me several times.
What about being put into a group with other players who lay back and do nothing while you fight overwhelming odds by yourself, and your ship in blown up?
What about the myriad of other situations where players die because of bugs and glitches in the game? How is the ticket system going to handle this? If you really want to make players angry start imposing some time sink Death Penalty and not answer tickets for 2 weeks.
Edit: Cryptic how about fixing the broken skill system before implementing a DP? Respec's won't do it, the entire system needs to be redone to reflect a system with a cap.
A Death Penalty will cause many problems while solving none.
Cryptic fix the problems in the game and then in 6 months if everything is working as it should lets talk about a Death Penalty.
How do you get "sucked" into a deep space encounter? You can fly around them and avoid them you know.
Death Penalties have been the bane of MMOs since EQ1, all you who want death penalties have no clue what your asking for.
Go back to EQ1 in its heyday and tell me how fun a 3 hour corpse run is into the depths of a raid dungeon, how fun sitting LFGing for help getting yoru corpse before it decayed taking ALL Of your gear with it.
Death Penalties are exactly why I dont play Eve and why Eve will always be a second tier MMO.
When you add Death Penalties to an MMO it screams "we ran out of things so we need to slow everyone down"
and im an Admiral already so it wont slow my leveling down, just keep me out of PvP, stop me from making a Klingon which for now is all pvp and keep me out of open teams, open raids and anythign where I have to rely on slackers who dont take time to study their ships, skills and gear and know their roles,
In short it will be WoW End game elitisim raiding from level 1. Hell even WoW doesnt have a death penalty worth mentioning unless your a tank (which I was) 4-20 gold repairs on per raid that nets 100-200 gold off loot alone, yawn.
Death Penalties are only enjoyable to PvPers who like to "TRIBBLE" over people. When they say "yay death will have meaning now" wht they are saying is "yay I can get my jollies blowing up people in pvp and TRIBBLE them out of (XP, Credits, Gear, Ships, insert DP of choice here). there is NO meaningful reason to add death penalties to the PvE game.
I had alot of fun on corpse runs in EQ1. Especially the plane of fear. DP make people play better instead of the zerg fest that goes on now. I highly doubt Cryptic intended people to just zerg encounters until its dead. It will force people to think about what they are doing so that they employ tactics to solve a problem and not just repeated brute force.
The only people that DP effects in a bad way are lazy gamers and gamers who just simply suck.
Ever play checkers? You lose pieces - that's a death penalty
Ever play chess? You lose pieces - that's a death penalty
Ever play Monopoly? You pay other players money and go to jail - those are death penalties
Ever play Marbles? You lose marbles to other kids - that's a death penalty
Death penalties are part of nearly every game ever made. If there is no loss, how can you really say you won? Games must have penalties and a sense of loss to truly make them games.
If there is no sense of loss when you fail, your sense of accomplishment becomes so low that you begin to lose interest in playing the game. And when you lose interest, you cancel your sub. Canceled subs is no good for business or for the community.
Who ever really canceled their sub because of the existence of death penalties? I'm willing to bet not alot of people have.
For the record - as a Rogue in EQ 1, I really enjoyed corpse runs - I would sneak in and do corpse runs for other people. It gave me a sense of purpose. So, I can't complain much about corpse runs, but I can see how other players might not like it.
You pick examples of hardcore penalties. DP like in EVE or EQ1 or PotBS will not find its way to STO, rest assured. It's gonna be a dp-lite. Likewise, PvP often operates under special rules in many games, so don't expect that the gank-shaft is necessarily on the horizon.
There are meaningful reasons, important to many people like yerself. No one's really going to suffer from the dp unless they're way zoned out anyway, or drunk, or sleepwalking, or have been risen from the dead in a Voodoo ceremony. We'll all be fine.
then why have them?
if its so minor that no one will even notice, why have them?
supporters of DP keep claiming they are going to implement a minor one that no one will even notice, so once again, why bother?
In order for a DP to be "meaningful" it has to have some teeth, otherwise its a totally pointless RP device
I had alot of fun on corpse runs in EQ1. Especially the plane of fear. DP make people play better instead of the zerg fest that goes on now. I highly doubt Cryptic intended people to just zerg encounters until its dead. It will force people to think about what they are doing so that they employ tactics to solve a problem and not just repeated brute force.
The only people that DP effects in a bad way are lazy gamers and gamers who just simply suck.
So you either playedin a big raid guild who loved Corpse runs or you were REALLY persuasive/rich and could convince people to take time out of their exp nights and raids to hold your naked hand on a corpse run, never lost a corpse and gear to a decay? must be nice.
Forces people to play better?????
What a totally unsubstantiated claim, show me a study where it found that DPs increase the overall skill of a player. Otherwise its a totally erroneous statement you made up.
a DP is a time sink nothing more, its a cop out to artificially lengthen the time spent between levels to make it seem like a game as vastly more content than it does.
In order for a DP to be "meaningful" it has to have some teeth, otherwise its a totally pointless RP device
It will likely be crew loss, which will gather bite as things accumulate. Hypothetically, it can start out mild and can become more of a penalty if left unchecked.
Trouble is with out a DP why should anyone heal / help anyone else? Why bother with a shield boost or hull boost for your team mates ? If they die they'll be back in 15 seconds with a lovely shinny new ship.
In this present system I can not vision any death penatly that would be a good idea. Just in one instance alone one can die many times, depending on situations, being outnumbered, ect. And a death penalty slapped on top of what already is a broken pvp system is just a horrible idea.
In this present system I can not vision any death penatly that would be a good idea. Just in one instance alone one can die many times, depending on situations, being outnumbered, ect. And a death penalty slapped on top of what already is a broken pvp system is just a horrible idea.
Dp in PvP usually works in altered form, taking into account special game play. Space encounters are whacked by the spawn-camping enemies, which needs to be fixed regardless.
Cryptic will never lose subscribers because there is no Death Penalty. They will lose subscribers if a Death Penalty is implemented. Watch and see.
Tell us Cryptic how you are going to deal with the people who are sucked into a deep space encounter and their ship is blown up? It's happened to me several times.
What about being put into a group with other players who lay back and do nothing while you fight overwhelming odds by yourself, and your ship in blown up?
What about the myriad of other situations where players die because of bugs and glitches in the game? How is the ticket system going to handle this? If you really want to make players angry start imposing some time sink Death Penalty and not answer tickets for 2 weeks.
Edit: Cryptic how about fixing the broken skill system before implementing a DP? Respec's won't do it, the entire system needs to be redone to reflect a system with a cap.
A Death Penalty will cause many problems while solving none.
Cryptic fix the problems in the game and then in 6 months if everything is working as it should lets talk about a Death Penalty.
mmm lets see.....
Final fantasy XI
World of Warcraft
City of Heroes
Ever Quest
Ever Quest II
Ultima Online
....eh hell and about 20 other MMORPGs, would like to have a word with you.
Cryptic will not kill the game adding a death penalty. Get over it already. Its coming.
Pro DP for life.
People who bought the game, already expecting how it is, people who already play the game... then have a gameplay change as significant as that, dont you think it will drive out people?
Remember what happened to SWG?
You bought the game, and knew it would be a casual MMO. Did you buy expecting it to be like EQ or EVE? Or even UO? No, so not changing the current DP will not affect you.
People who bought the game, already expecting how it is, people who already play the game... then have a gameplay change as significant as that, dont you think it will drive out people?
Remember what happened to SWG?
You bought the game, and knew it would be a casual MMO. Did you buy expecting it to be like EQ or EVE? Or even UO? No, so not changing the current DP will not affect you.
Even casual mmos have dp. It doesn't have to be something catastrophic and family-destroying. Nothing like EVE, criminy. Stop fear-mongering.
Cryptic will never lose subscribers because there is no Death Penalty. They will lose subscribers if a Death Penalty is implemented. Watch and see.
Tell us Cryptic how you are going to deal with the people who are sucked into a deep space encounter and their ship is blown up? It's happened to me several times.
What about being put into a group with other players who lay back and do nothing while you fight overwhelming odds by yourself, and your ship in blown up?
What about the myriad of other situations where players die because of bugs and glitches in the game? How is the ticket system going to handle this? If you really want to make players angry start imposing some time sink Death Penalty and not answer tickets for 2 weeks.
Edit: Cryptic how about fixing the broken skill system before implementing a DP? Respec's won't do it, the entire system needs to be redone to reflect a system with a cap.
A Death Penalty will cause many problems while solving none.
Cryptic fix the problems in the game and then in 6 months if everything is working as it should lets talk about a Death Penalty.
There is a good number of MMOs which have a healthy number of subscribers and they have death penalties some more harsh others less. This game will be no different.
Cryptic will never lose subscribers because there is no Death Penalty. They will lose subscribers if a Death Penalty is implemented. Watch and see.
Tell us Cryptic how you are going to deal with the people who are sucked into a deep space encounter and their ship is blown up? It's happened to me several times.
Agreed they need to fix this
What about being put into a group with other players who lay back and do nothing while you fight overwhelming odds by yourself, and your ship in blown up?
Turn off auto team and don't team with noobs
What about the myriad of other situations where players die because of bugs and glitches in the game? How is the ticket system going to handle this? If you really want to make players angry start imposing some time sink Death Penalty and not answer tickets for 2 weeks.
TRIBBLE happens. I've lag deathed a few times on WoW. Sucks but you deal with it
Edit: Cryptic how about fixing the broken skill system before implementing a DP? Respec's won't do it, the entire system needs to be redone to reflect a system with a cap.
Not relavent to the DP
A Death Penalty will cause many problems while solving none.
Cryptic fix the problems in the game and then in 6 months if everything is working as it should lets talk about a Death Penalty.
Responses in red. The biggest problem with the DP being added is that it wasn't at launch. If it was there when the game started no one would care. But adding it s making people nerd rage.
dp wont kill this game. if you dont like dp go play hello kitty online, not like this is eve o or potbs with world pvp and ship loss.
what will kill this game is cutting the price 20 bucks and giving new buyers 2 months of free play. oh and lack of end game and lack of meaningful pvp oh and the badly implemented skill cap and lack of respecs and yadda yadda, yea all stuff that is coming down the road at some point still already a ton of damage done because of this stuff with people canceling their accounts, cancelling lifetime subs emo rage quitting etc.
i have no problem with DP, it will make the game more of a challenge to stay alive instead of doing the same boring thing, go into battle, die, respawn, nothing happens redo everything without consequence. So im all in favor for it. But i also agree with the OP, there is alot of things that need to be fixed first.
A shiny new 100% ship to charge back in 15 seconds later isn't a penalty. More like a reward. In fact, the entire game is all reward and no risk.
Edit: Actually the ship is not 100% immediately due to crew loss. Since they breed like Tribbles anyway it will be at or near 100% by the time you zerg back for more.
Has anyone ever actually used an NPC at starbase to purchase crew? I doubt anyone in the game has.
They were there to be implemented and useful. The nerf bat swung down so mightily at the end of OB that aside from making combat a walk in the park they never even implemented a point for crew npcs and ship related consoles.
Has anyone ever actually used an NPC at starbase to purchase crew? I doubt anyone in the game has.
They were there to be implemented and useful. The nerf bat swung down so mightily at the end of OB that aside from making combat a walk in the park they never even implemented a point for crew npcs and ship related consoles.
That's right. All of that is a vestigial dp system that was never implemented. Until the imminent change, when they finally turn on the crew loss thingie in all its terrifying, gut-wrenching, game-breaking inhumanity.
I've been aching for a death penalty of some sort but have to agree with many of you that they need to get their priorities in order and fix what is seriously wrong with the game before implementing the DP. Not doing so is probably the only way OP's dire prediction of a mass STO Exodus would come true. Lets be honest, the entire point of a DP is to be annoying, something you don't want to happen and is unpleasant in some way to deal with. Great in a game with no major malfunction or other issues. I hope the disasters associated with this last patch have finally shown Cryptic that the more they rush these supposed "fixes" the more ****ed we're going to get because they keep piling new untested TRIBBLE on top of other TRIBBLE that didn't work right to begin with. Please, take your time, fix whats wrong before trying to add new improvements. Seriously, how hard is that? If your leg is broken it's pretty stupid to go buy running shoes instead of a cast.
Actually...I had not problem with a death penalty until I read your post and the circumstances you suggest. I don't know how many times I've also got sucked into a deep space encounter. I'm really hoping they fix this and add a dialog box instead of just tossing you in there. Plus, unlike other MMO's, people don't really talk to each other in team missions, so if you get stuck with a bunch of people who don't know what they are doing, or don't care, etc....it's not really fair to get a hefty death penalty penalty.
I still think it's a good idea, but it will be tricky to implement a fair one.
Comments
Eve Online has very harsh death penalties - you blow up, you lose your ship and its stuff, but they have insurance that pays for most of the ship. Eve Online has a huge enough following to keep it going strong, with FREE content updates even.
Stop being so dramatic, and stop complaining about death penalties. They are a fact of nearly EVERY game out there, even WoW, the king of casual MMOs.
Without death penalties, we have no sense of danger. No sense of loss. It causes the game to feel too safe. I want to feel on edge, I want to feel loss. That's why pretty much every MMO ever made has some form of death penalty.
Did you read my post at all?
Short version, fix the game and then think about implementing a Death Penalty.
Im with some rubbish player? I LOL'd hard.
Death Penalties have been the bane of MMOs since EQ1, all you who want death penalties have no clue what your asking for.
Go back to EQ1 in its heyday and tell me how fun a 3 hour corpse run is into the depths of a raid dungeon, how fun sitting LFGing for help getting yoru corpse before it decayed taking ALL Of your gear with it.
Death Penalties are exactly why I dont play Eve and why Eve will always be a second tier MMO.
When you add Death Penalties to an MMO it screams "we ran out of things so we need to slow everyone down"
and im an Admiral already so it wont slow my leveling down, just keep me out of PvP, stop me from making a Klingon which for now is all pvp and keep me out of open teams, open raids and anythign where I have to rely on slackers who dont take time to study their ships, skills and gear and know their roles,
In short it will be WoW End game elitisim raiding from level 1. Hell even WoW doesnt have a death penalty worth mentioning unless your a tank (which I was) 4-20 gold repairs on per raid that nets 100-200 gold off loot alone, yawn.
Death Penalties are only enjoyable to PvPers who like to "TRIBBLE" over people. When they say "yay death will have meaning now" wht they are saying is "yay I can get my jollies blowing up people in pvp and TRIBBLE them out of (XP, Credits, Gear, Ships, insert DP of choice here). there is NO meaningful reason to add death penalties to the PvE game.
You pick examples of hardcore penalties. DP like in EVE or EQ1 or PotBS will not find its way to STO, rest assured. It's gonna be a dp-lite. Likewise, PvP often operates under special rules in many games, so don't expect that the gank-shaft is necessarily on the horizon.
There are meaningful reasons, important to many people like yerself. No one's really going to suffer from the dp unless they're way zoned out anyway, or drunk, or sleepwalking, or have been risen from the dead in a Voodoo ceremony. We'll all be fine.
How do you get "sucked" into a deep space encounter? You can fly around them and avoid them you know.
:cool:
I had alot of fun on corpse runs in EQ1. Especially the plane of fear. DP make people play better instead of the zerg fest that goes on now. I highly doubt Cryptic intended people to just zerg encounters until its dead. It will force people to think about what they are doing so that they employ tactics to solve a problem and not just repeated brute force.
The only people that DP effects in a bad way are lazy gamers and gamers who just simply suck.
Ever play chess? You lose pieces - that's a death penalty
Ever play Monopoly? You pay other players money and go to jail - those are death penalties
Ever play Marbles? You lose marbles to other kids - that's a death penalty
Death penalties are part of nearly every game ever made. If there is no loss, how can you really say you won? Games must have penalties and a sense of loss to truly make them games.
If there is no sense of loss when you fail, your sense of accomplishment becomes so low that you begin to lose interest in playing the game. And when you lose interest, you cancel your sub. Canceled subs is no good for business or for the community.
Who ever really canceled their sub because of the existence of death penalties? I'm willing to bet not alot of people have.
For the record - as a Rogue in EQ 1, I really enjoyed corpse runs - I would sneak in and do corpse runs for other people. It gave me a sense of purpose. So, I can't complain much about corpse runs, but I can see how other players might not like it.
then why have them?
if its so minor that no one will even notice, why have them?
supporters of DP keep claiming they are going to implement a minor one that no one will even notice, so once again, why bother?
In order for a DP to be "meaningful" it has to have some teeth, otherwise its a totally pointless RP device
So you either playedin a big raid guild who loved Corpse runs or you were REALLY persuasive/rich and could convince people to take time out of their exp nights and raids to hold your naked hand on a corpse run, never lost a corpse and gear to a decay? must be nice.
Forces people to play better?????
What a totally unsubstantiated claim, show me a study where it found that DPs increase the overall skill of a player. Otherwise its a totally erroneous statement you made up.
a DP is a time sink nothing more, its a cop out to artificially lengthen the time spent between levels to make it seem like a game as vastly more content than it does.
It will likely be crew loss, which will gather bite as things accumulate. Hypothetically, it can start out mild and can become more of a penalty if left unchecked.
we say NO to death penalty.
its a griefer's dream come true.
you say you listen, cryptic. Listen to us.
Ahh, yes, because it's so much easier than actually making the combat exciting. And so terribly less effective.
Exactly. Without risk the game is pointless.
Dp in PvP usually works in altered form, taking into account special game play. Space encounters are whacked by the spawn-camping enemies, which needs to be fixed regardless.
Pro DP for life.
mmm lets see.....
Final fantasy XI
World of Warcraft
City of Heroes
Ever Quest
Ever Quest II
Ultima Online
....eh hell and about 20 other MMORPGs, would like to have a word with you.
People who bought the game, already expecting how it is, people who already play the game... then have a gameplay change as significant as that, dont you think it will drive out people?
Remember what happened to SWG?
You bought the game, and knew it would be a casual MMO. Did you buy expecting it to be like EQ or EVE? Or even UO? No, so not changing the current DP will not affect you.
Even casual mmos have dp. It doesn't have to be something catastrophic and family-destroying. Nothing like EVE, criminy. Stop fear-mongering.
There is a good number of MMOs which have a healthy number of subscribers and they have death penalties some more harsh others less. This game will be no different.
Responses in red. The biggest problem with the DP being added is that it wasn't at launch. If it was there when the game started no one would care. But adding it s making people nerd rage.
what will kill this game is cutting the price 20 bucks and giving new buyers 2 months of free play. oh and lack of end game and lack of meaningful pvp oh and the badly implemented skill cap and lack of respecs and yadda yadda, yea all stuff that is coming down the road at some point still already a ton of damage done because of this stuff with people canceling their accounts, cancelling lifetime subs emo rage quitting etc.
but that's the problem, it already has a DP!
A shiny new 100% ship to charge back in 15 seconds later isn't a penalty. More like a reward. In fact, the entire game is all reward and no risk.
Edit: Actually the ship is not 100% immediately due to crew loss. Since they breed like Tribbles anyway it will be at or near 100% by the time you zerg back for more.
Has anyone ever actually used an NPC at starbase to purchase crew? I doubt anyone in the game has.
They were there to be implemented and useful. The nerf bat swung down so mightily at the end of OB that aside from making combat a walk in the park they never even implemented a point for crew npcs and ship related consoles.
That's right. All of that is a vestigial dp system that was never implemented. Until the imminent change, when they finally turn on the crew loss thingie in all its terrifying, gut-wrenching, game-breaking inhumanity.
I still think it's a good idea, but it will be tricky to implement a fair one.