Don't forget that one of the Klingon missions is to die 26 times, yes, you got to purposely die, not sure how good a DP would be with that particular mission.
Should there be a Death Penalty? Yes, it is needed. But only when the following bugs/problems are fixed:
o Enemy ships/groups clumping at the Respawn points, ready to blow you up again...and again...and again.
o Enemy groups respawning right on top of you after you've defeated a group. This occurs mainly in Fleet Actions. Nothing is worse than barely making it through a group of enemy only to have a new group spawn right on top of you and blow you away.
o Random Encounters that pull you in are properly scaled. Nothing worse getting sucked into an encounter that you can't win
o Give penalties to those in groups that just sit there and do nothing. Make every ship in a group actually do what they're supposed to be doing (helping their teammates with the mission), instead of scumming a mission complete by sitting in a safe place.
Fix the above major issues, and a Death Penalty will be more fair to the player.
Cryptic will never lose subscribers because there is no Death Penalty. They will lose subscribers if a Death Penalty is implemented. Watch and see.
Tell us Cryptic how you are going to deal with the people who are sucked into a deep space encounter and their ship is blown up? It's happened to me several times.
What about being put into a group with other players who lay back and do nothing while you fight overwhelming odds by yourself, and your ship in blown up?
What about the myriad of other situations where players die because of bugs and glitches in the game? How is the ticket system going to handle this? If you really want to make players angry start imposing some time sink Death Penalty and not answer tickets for 2 weeks.
Edit: Cryptic how about fixing the broken skill system before implementing a DP? Respec's won't do it, the entire system needs to be redone to reflect a system with a cap.
A Death Penalty will cause many problems while solving none.
Cryptic fix the problems in the game and then in 6 months if everything is working as it should lets talk about a Death Penalty.
First off, you aren't the only player here, and other people have things they'd like to see too, before you get everything you're looking for.
Second, since the DP has been noted as "optional", and not forced on players, why would players get upset about something they had to enable in the first place?
Less Drama + More Thought = More Productive Conversations
Cryptic will never lose subscribers because there is no Death Penalty. They will lose subscribers if a Death Penalty is implemented. Watch and see.
Tell us Cryptic how you are going to deal with the people who are sucked into a deep space encounter and their ship is blown up? It's happened to me several times.
What about being put into a group with other players who lay back and do nothing while you fight overwhelming odds by yourself, and your ship in blown up?
What about the myriad of other situations where players die because of bugs and glitches in the game? How is the ticket system going to handle this? If you really want to make players angry start imposing some time sink Death Penalty and not answer tickets for 2 weeks.
Edit: Cryptic how about fixing the broken skill system before implementing a DP? Respec's won't do it, the entire system needs to be redone to reflect a system with a cap.
A Death Penalty will cause many problems while solving none.
Cryptic fix the problems in the game and then in 6 months if everything is working as it should lets talk about a Death Penalty.
That and the whole "devs keep saying that it is optional" argument. It's like people complain about developers not taking feedback and then ignore what they've been saying for weeks.
I hate losing. Even in this game where there is no DP. If there is a DP it will probably make me a bit happier, as long as its done well. Personally I think it should be experience debt like in CoX, but I shall wait and see what the devs have in mind.
XP debt like CoX was one of the things I hated most about the game. No thank you. That was one of the worst systems because if you got in a bad enough group you'd be in worse shape than if you never grouped at all.
It was actually a system that discouraged grouping. More people you grouped with, the more the encounters amped up, and the greater risk of you dying. Doubly so if in a bad group. The system encouraged solo play rather than encouraging people to group and work as a team.
Anyway in regards to the OP, I agree. The DP should be optional or nonexistant until they work out ways that deaths beyond player control dont happen. I've been vaporized in missions while stuck in the popup mission chatboxes when zoning in. But really their time would be better spent programming things so that zerging isn't a viable tactic than a DP.
Cryptic will never lose subscribers because there is no Death Penalty. They will lose subscribers if a Death Penalty is implemented. Watch and see.
Tell us Cryptic how you are going to deal with the people who are sucked into a deep space encounter and their ship is blown up? It's happened to me several times.
What about being put into a group with other players who lay back and do nothing while you fight overwhelming odds by yourself, and your ship in blown up?
What about the myriad of other situations where players die because of bugs and glitches in the game? How is the ticket system going to handle this? If you really want to make players angry start imposing some time sink Death Penalty and not answer tickets for 2 weeks.
Edit: Cryptic how about fixing the broken skill system before implementing a DP? Respec's won't do it, the entire system needs to be redone to reflect a system with a cap.
A Death Penalty will cause many problems while solving none.
Cryptic fix the problems in the game and then in 6 months if everything is working as it should lets talk about a Death Penalty.
That and the whole "devs keep saying that it is optional" argument. It's like people complain about developers not taking feedback and then ignore what they've been saying for weeks.
Well, this is a necro'd thread from before that statement was made. Which is a different breed of silliness.
Cryptic will never lose subscribers because there is no Death Penalty. They will lose subscribers if a Death Penalty is implemented. Watch and see.
Actually I think they'll lose subbers anyways. A lot of us (myself included) have adopted the wait a few months and see approach. I intend to come back around June or July, and I know many people are adopting the same strategy. The Death Penalty may drive more away, but I think the lack of content is doing a much better job at it so far.
Right now, my thought is, "Eh, TRIBBLE it. I killed two ships. I'll be back at full health when they kill me".
What I'd prefer it to be is, "Damn it, lemme see if I can lose a few of those attackers by flying around that asteroid...then I can take out this one guy and heal a bit...otherwise I'll die and ...." insert some penalty there.
If having a consequence to dying killed MMOs...we'd be...MMOless.
Although, the worst death penalty I'd seen was in Anarchy Online. You could run out and do a mish somewhere to get some cool loot, but if you were killed in PVP, the killer could loot anything you had on you since the last time you saved. Oh...and you lost ALL your skill points since last time you saved. ALL. It's a lot more carebare now, but used to be pretty harsh.
Kinda like Eve if you don't have a clone that supports your knowledge level...you could lose months of training in a single egg pop.
Cryptic will never lose subscribers because there is no Death Penalty. They will lose subscribers if a Death Penalty is implemented. Watch and see.
Tell us Cryptic how you are going to deal with the people who are sucked into a deep space encounter and their ship is blown up? It's happened to me several times.
What about being put into a group with other players who lay back and do nothing while you fight overwhelming odds by yourself, and your ship in blown up?
What about the myriad of other situations where players die because of bugs and glitches in the game? How is the ticket system going to handle this? If you really want to make players angry start imposing some time sink Death Penalty and not answer tickets for 2 weeks.
Edit: Cryptic how about fixing the broken skill system before implementing a DP? Respec's won't do it, the entire system needs to be redone to reflect a system with a cap.
A Death Penalty will cause many problems while solving none.
Cryptic fix the problems in the game and then in 6 months if everything is working as it should lets talk about a Death Penalty.
Yeah. What happens if I am playing a buggy mission and get killed. Not very fair if I get a death penalty in that scenario. I am not for the death penalty. However, if they want to use one it could be for certain missions only. Just don't institute a death penalty for every mission.
Death penalty is really needed in PvP. Take Capture and Hold maps for example - Federation players die all time there and they all have negative score (2:5 for example), Klingon players have positive score (15:1 usually) but still they lose because of uneven numbers - Federation players just respawn over and over and can take more spots because they are usually more numerous there. If there is a death penalty that places a debuff on the killed player (like he cannot use some abilities for certain time, or that his presence at capture spots doesnt count for certain time), it will work much better of course. This wouldnt hurt the players credits/merits, but would have huge impact on winning/losing.
Cryptic will never lose subscribers because there is no Death Penalty. They will lose subscribers if a Death Penalty is implemented. Watch and see.
Tell us Cryptic how you are going to deal with the people who are sucked into a deep space encounter and their ship is blown up? It's happened to me several times.
What about being put into a group with other players who lay back and do nothing while you fight overwhelming odds by yourself, and your ship in blown up?
What about the myriad of other situations where players die because of bugs and glitches in the game? How is the ticket system going to handle this? If you really want to make players angry start imposing some time sink Death Penalty and not answer tickets for 2 weeks.
Edit: Cryptic how about fixing the broken skill system before implementing a DP? Respec's won't do it, the entire system needs to be redone to reflect a system with a cap.
A Death Penalty will cause many problems while solving none.
Cryptic fix the problems in the game and then in 6 months if everything is working as it should lets talk about a Death Penalty.
If you were able to read you would know that the DP will be optional. In light of this your entire thread is of no use to anyone other than the rest of the numpties who cannot read.
If you were able to read you would know that the DP will be optional. In light of this your entire thread is of no use to anyone other than the rest of the numpties who cannot read.
Read? Read? Who me? i just wait for the movie to come out.
Perhaps you are not reading the original post? MMMMMMMMM?
What he's saying is he's not against the DP (optional or not) He's saying to have one would be kinda dumb considering the way the aggro/spawn points/ and 3 to 1 ratio is set up. They would have to change that in order for a DP to be fair. Otherwise why have one if your having your A** handed to you all the time due to bugs and bad spawn placement. If your gonna have DP, make the game a more fair match. Definately lazy team mates need to be smacked on the hand. Perhaps make the mob go to them if they don't approach the battle within a certain distance?
I know for sure Ive had to ask some to leave the team or kicked em due to this (Oh I forgot Im teamed TRIBBLE) due to the fact that it spawns more enemy, which at higher levels i dont mind so much. But if I gotta work for my lunch...so does everyone else. If its a loot issue, I share the wealth at every level without wanting anything in return ...thats just me.
DP or not.........Im a glutton for punishment.......btw.......hows a DP gonna work if yer Klingon? isnt dying one of their missions? LOL HA HA HA HAH AH AHAH HA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA
In battle...you get what you put in, and the enemy gets what he deserves.
I also see the point that DP is a difficult thing when dying not only depends on your strategy but on your spawn point in engagement or something. But I definitively want a DP as it feels way to much like deathmatch currently.
There is no victory if you have nothing to lose. I hope when DP comes, a lot of the issues mentioned in this thread will be taken on.
I find it funny that people are so scared of a death penalty when they don't even know what it's going to be yet.
They definetely need to do SOMETHING to extend the life of the game. The novelty of STO is quickly wearing off due partially to the fact that death means nothing in this game and no matter how many times I've blown up in this game, it hasn't hindered me from reaching Rear Admiral in a matter of weeks. If they had instated a DP to begin with, we wouldn't even be having this conversation and half (if not more) of the population wouldn't be at max level already looking for something to do. At this point, it may be too late to add a DP since so many people don't care about blowing up atm and play recklessly. I bet the only ones scared of a DP are the ones who blow up frequently--in which case, why is it that those of us who don't get the same reward as those who just had enough patience to deal with being blown up all of the time?
Something has to be done to slow level progression. We can't all PVP forever while we twiddle our thumbs waiting for content and end game--which, again wouldn't be the case if some sort of friction were between us and space combat.
Um......I dont blow up all that easy if Im not overwhelmed...and I can be a pain to blow up to begin with.......just ask some PVP blokes. Im like a rash that wont go away.
Still, you have a point sir, it does kinda take no time at all to lvl. Still I have found that i can still keep busy on a regualr basis even at RA5.
But..........even at highest lvls of fury, one can find that there is always one more thing you can do.
Um......I dont blow up all that easy if Im not overwhelmed...and I can be a pain to blow up to begin with.......just ask some PVP blokes. Im like a rash that wont go away.
Still, you have a point sir, it does kinda take no time at all to lvl. Still I have found that i can still keep busy on a regualr basis even at RA5.
But..........even at highest lvls of fury, one can find that there is always one more thing you can do.
If you really don't blow up that often, you should be a higher rank than someone who plays the same amount of time and isn't even really trying to stay alive, don't you think? It doesn't bother you that other people who suck have basically gotten the same reward (Rear Admiral rank) than you have in the same period of time just because they don't really care about dying and don't have to?
this game may die for many reasons, pointing at one just because you do not like it and laying all the blame on its doorstep is absurd.
All issues obviously need to be looked at one by one. Just because the entire problem isn't the DP or lack thereof doesn't mean we should all throw up our hands and not do anything at all. That'd be kind of silly.
Comments
Please tell us what the death penalty is, because none of us know, and cannot judge it.
And don't say being stabbed in the back by friends.
o Enemy ships/groups clumping at the Respawn points, ready to blow you up again...and again...and again.
o Enemy groups respawning right on top of you after you've defeated a group. This occurs mainly in Fleet Actions. Nothing is worse than barely making it through a group of enemy only to have a new group spawn right on top of you and blow you away.
o Random Encounters that pull you in are properly scaled. Nothing worse getting sucked into an encounter that you can't win
o Give penalties to those in groups that just sit there and do nothing. Make every ship in a group actually do what they're supposed to be doing (helping their teammates with the mission), instead of scumming a mission complete by sitting in a safe place.
Fix the above major issues, and a Death Penalty will be more fair to the player.
:rolleyes:
See my signature. That has been a sore point for me since launch.
First off, you aren't the only player here, and other people have things they'd like to see too, before you get everything you're looking for.
Second, since the DP has been noted as "optional", and not forced on players, why would players get upset about something they had to enable in the first place?
Less Drama + More Thought = More Productive Conversations
Works for me.
There is no mandatory DP as of yet.
The sky is also not falling.
A million times this.
A whoooooole lot of Chicken Little going on here.
That and the whole "devs keep saying that it is optional" argument. It's like people complain about developers not taking feedback and then ignore what they've been saying for weeks.
XP debt like CoX was one of the things I hated most about the game. No thank you. That was one of the worst systems because if you got in a bad enough group you'd be in worse shape than if you never grouped at all.
It was actually a system that discouraged grouping. More people you grouped with, the more the encounters amped up, and the greater risk of you dying. Doubly so if in a bad group. The system encouraged solo play rather than encouraging people to group and work as a team.
Anyway in regards to the OP, I agree. The DP should be optional or nonexistant until they work out ways that deaths beyond player control dont happen. I've been vaporized in missions while stuck in the popup mission chatboxes when zoning in. But really their time would be better spent programming things so that zerging isn't a viable tactic than a DP.
I happen to agree with this poster.
Well, this is a necro'd thread from before that statement was made. Which is a different breed of silliness.
Actually I think they'll lose subbers anyways. A lot of us (myself included) have adopted the wait a few months and see approach. I intend to come back around June or July, and I know many people are adopting the same strategy. The Death Penalty may drive more away, but I think the lack of content is doing a much better job at it so far.
Right now, my thought is, "Eh, TRIBBLE it. I killed two ships. I'll be back at full health when they kill me".
What I'd prefer it to be is, "Damn it, lemme see if I can lose a few of those attackers by flying around that asteroid...then I can take out this one guy and heal a bit...otherwise I'll die and ...." insert some penalty there.
If having a consequence to dying killed MMOs...we'd be...MMOless.
Although, the worst death penalty I'd seen was in Anarchy Online. You could run out and do a mish somewhere to get some cool loot, but if you were killed in PVP, the killer could loot anything you had on you since the last time you saved. Oh...and you lost ALL your skill points since last time you saved. ALL. It's a lot more carebare now, but used to be pretty harsh.
Kinda like Eve if you don't have a clone that supports your knowledge level...you could lose months of training in a single egg pop.
Yeah. What happens if I am playing a buggy mission and get killed. Not very fair if I get a death penalty in that scenario. I am not for the death penalty. However, if they want to use one it could be for certain missions only. Just don't institute a death penalty for every mission.
If you were able to read you would know that the DP will be optional. In light of this your entire thread is of no use to anyone other than the rest of the numpties who cannot read.
Check the date on the OP.
Optional DP was announced this week.
Perhaps you are not reading the original post? MMMMMMMMM?
What he's saying is he's not against the DP (optional or not) He's saying to have one would be kinda dumb considering the way the aggro/spawn points/ and 3 to 1 ratio is set up. They would have to change that in order for a DP to be fair. Otherwise why have one if your having your A** handed to you all the time due to bugs and bad spawn placement. If your gonna have DP, make the game a more fair match. Definately lazy team mates need to be smacked on the hand. Perhaps make the mob go to them if they don't approach the battle within a certain distance?
I know for sure Ive had to ask some to leave the team or kicked em due to this (Oh I forgot Im teamed TRIBBLE) due to the fact that it spawns more enemy, which at higher levels i dont mind so much. But if I gotta work for my lunch...so does everyone else. If its a loot issue, I share the wealth at every level without wanting anything in return ...thats just me.
DP or not.........Im a glutton for punishment.......btw.......hows a DP gonna work if yer Klingon? isnt dying one of their missions? LOL HA HA HA HAH AH AHAH HA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA
In battle...you get what you put in, and the enemy gets what he deserves.
There is no victory if you have nothing to lose. I hope when DP comes, a lot of the issues mentioned in this thread will be taken on.
They definetely need to do SOMETHING to extend the life of the game. The novelty of STO is quickly wearing off due partially to the fact that death means nothing in this game and no matter how many times I've blown up in this game, it hasn't hindered me from reaching Rear Admiral in a matter of weeks. If they had instated a DP to begin with, we wouldn't even be having this conversation and half (if not more) of the population wouldn't be at max level already looking for something to do. At this point, it may be too late to add a DP since so many people don't care about blowing up atm and play recklessly. I bet the only ones scared of a DP are the ones who blow up frequently--in which case, why is it that those of us who don't get the same reward as those who just had enough patience to deal with being blown up all of the time?
Something has to be done to slow level progression. We can't all PVP forever while we twiddle our thumbs waiting for content and end game--which, again wouldn't be the case if some sort of friction were between us and space combat.
Still, you have a point sir, it does kinda take no time at all to lvl. Still I have found that i can still keep busy on a regualr basis even at RA5.
But..........even at highest lvls of fury, one can find that there is always one more thing you can do.
Careful Kor, you know how common sense gets treated round here ^^
If you really don't blow up that often, you should be a higher rank than someone who plays the same amount of time and isn't even really trying to stay alive, don't you think? It doesn't bother you that other people who suck have basically gotten the same reward (Rear Admiral rank) than you have in the same period of time just because they don't really care about dying and don't have to?
All issues obviously need to be looked at one by one. Just because the entire problem isn't the DP or lack thereof doesn't mean we should all throw up our hands and not do anything at all. That'd be kind of silly.
We have to start somewhere.