Eve has a ludicrous amount of instancing, every single system is separate, every roid field is separate and missions send you into a part of space you have to search for with probes, I don't see how you think that is any more open.
Ummm you have never played eve have you!! Even though it would prolly take Littery years i cound fly from one roid field to the next and from one planet to the next. That would make those sections of the game HUGE and NON-Instanced. So check you facts before posting and slamming a GOOD game..
Instances are fine. They are just duplicates of a zone to separate players from all being in the same map at the same time.
There is a good reason for instancing: it reduces costs. Really, instancing has absolutely nothing to do with improving the player experience. The reason for instancing is, by all means, to make the system run in a cost reduced platform.
The problem I have is the scale of this game. It has to be the smallest MMO I have played to date. There is no exploration in this game at all. Clusters do not count as you are simply boxed into an area that randomly generates points to scan.
The size of the instance itself is proportional to its server-side hardware requirements. The smaller the instance requirements, the more the platform cost is reduced. The simpler the server side is, the cheaper it is to pay its maintenance because you don't need top notch system engineers, you can get along with more common folks.
The concept talked about via executive producer Craig Zinkievich, was that there would be boundless areas where exploration was key. That you could not only explore strange new worlds generated by their "genesis system", but that you could save it's location and revisit the planet any time you wished.
Think of "Instanced" as the oposite to "Persistent". It is really a bad name, it should be called "temporary copy" or maybe "not persistent instance". The characteristic of an instance is that it dies and is lost when its lifecycle ends. That's why any randomly generated system or any other system in this game will never be stored serverside, it only exists for the duration of the mission, as do everything that happens inside it. The only thing persistent in this game is your character advancement (character, BOs, ships and equipment). The world itself is not persistent, but merely a chat hub.
About EvE,
Yes, I agree about EvE. I don't like many things of it, particularly some gameplay aspects, but the persistent, dynamic and vast gameworld is the best if not only example of a space based MMO. Actually the best scaled space game that I have ever played. Your ship is just a dust drop compared to any planet.
The point I want to make is this:
There is a game that has been around for many years now, whose platform, technology, architecture and running costs are exactly in the same league than STO. That game is called Guild Wars. I played that game for a month back in 2004 or so, and I have not any particular interest on it. But the thing is, that Guild Wars has been for many years around as a successful MMO, they have made money with it and is alive and kicking yet. You get to play GW by buying the client for 40 bucks (now less I would think) and you don't need any suscription fee, its free. Expansions aside.
STO has these serious problems with me:
- It is heavily instanced. It is not persistent neither dynamic, just a bunch of chat rooms and lobbies.
- Its instances are small, very small. GW had much bigger instances with a technology much older and for free. This is the most poor depiction of space I have ever seen in a game, from Elite to these days. Because you don't even see the intention to disimulate the limits of the game. You get barriers all around you.
- The only goal of this game is to be as lucrative as possible. But the truly lucrative entertainment products require huge investments. But this game pretends the same result with a B grade title and that, while legit, is unfair and unethical in my book.
- I can't ignore a constant feeling within that I am being charged a price that the product simply is not worth. And this feeling rests on top of another of disappointment because of this unambitious IP recreation. You pay for the box and the suscription as if this were an AAA MMO title, which isn't. They don't even need all that much money to be this a successful business. I won't even mention lifetime suscriptions.
Probably the IP cost has sucked all the game budget. It happens.
those just need to be removed... i refuse to do them... a blank box that requires me to fly around and then
"scan" them so i can then zone some more. I just find the "exploration" zones a complete waste of my time. Like if you want me to do Kahless expanse then just zone me there. Dont make we wander thru some lobby clicking on nonsense.
Well ... You still have "Space Invaders" to play with
first and foremost i play stuff like this for the space game, and whats this? instanced space zones (small at that) freelancer/jumpgate/EVE is the space gameplay i was expecting... here we are doing space "levels" instead................ where is the free roaming space play i EXPECTED star trek to be?!??!?!
Perhaps you had unrealistic expectations? If you try to accept the game for what it is, rather than what you would like it to be, you might enjoy it more. If you don't like the small group or solo space combat of most of the missions, perhaps you might like the larger Fleet Actions?
BTW, I played Eve for a few months - dullest game I ever played, it did not appeal to me. Fortunately we are not forced to play one game rather than another. You pays your money, you takes your choice!
first and foremost i play stuff like this for the space game, and whats this? instanced space zones (small at that) freelancer/jumpgate/EVE is the space gameplay i was expecting... here we are doing space "levels" instead................ where is the free roaming space play i EXPECTED star trek to be?!??!?!
Caveat Emptor. The information was out there. If you walk into a store, close your eyes, grab something, buy it, open your eyes, and it's not what you want, whose fault is it? That is what you did; so you blame the store? NEXT TIME, I suggest you actually RESEARCH a game before buying it instead of saying, "HEY! I've always wanted a game based on this tv show! Why, SURELY this will be EXACTLY WHAT I WANT so I'll buy it blind!" You might be happier in the long run.
For me exploring is to NOT be on a missions but to EXPLORE!!
thats not your starship, not your crew. You are a member/employee of Starfleet of KDF. You follow their orders, you don't get to take that starship and do as you please, its not yours.
Running around with total freedom does not fit in with the federation/KDF thing this game is built on.
Maybe if we get some neutral civilian factions later.
Could you imagine a tank driver complaining that his CO's won't let him take his M1A1 Battle tank off the to the mountains for a vacation with his family?
You explore when and where Starfleet tells you too buddy.
meh, loads so fast they could have left the loading screen out. unless your running on a 20 year old HDD
I have to agree. I was in the closed and the beginning of the open beta and I logged into the the head start and was pleasently surprised at the speed improvement. I'm so fine with instancing.
As far as other planets in the systems goal was to only have the planets were the story would be... Andor in the Andorian system, Earth in the Sol system, etc.
When they did the game they had a couple choices. One is to go with as much realism as you dare to muster, the other is to make it episodic. By episodic I mean it's more like the show. When the ship needed to go to Mavis 4 it didn't show the Enterprise passing Mavis 10-5 it just showed them at Mavis 4. (Granted in Best of Both worlds it showed them passing through the solar system, but that was a storytelling trick to build suspense. STO does this in missions like Stop the Signal.)
Personally I would have been happy with either choice, but I think episodic was the best choice because it allowed them to get the game out quicker because they didn't have to worry about adding content that adds nothing to the mission at hand. Plus you can always add to systems later.
first and foremost i play stuff like this for the space game, and whats this? instanced space zones (small at that) freelancer/jumpgate/EVE is the space gameplay i was expecting... here we are doing space "levels" instead................ where is the free roaming space play i EXPECTED star trek to be?!??!?!
I don't have a problem with it TBH. I think its really great as is. For me, if I wanted to play a free-flowing space type game I would play EvE or more likely X2 or something of the like.
Though I do miss space being 3D lol. huge expanse L, R, Forward and Back... tiny amount of space up and down. I'm hoping they will "resolve" that in time though. The games got plenty to keep my playing.
Eve has a ludicrous amount of instancing, every single system is separate, every roid field is separate and missions send you into a part of space you have to search for with probes, I don't see how you think that is any more open.
Ah my bad.... difference between instance and server noted
thats not your starship, not your crew. You are a member/employee of Starfleet of KDF. You follow their orders, you don't get to take that starship and do as you please, its not yours.
Running around with total freedom does not fit in with the federation/KDF thing this game is built on.
Maybe if we get some neutral civilian factions later.
Could you imagine a tank driver complaining that his CO's won't let him take his M1A1 Battle tank off the to the mountains for a vacation with his family?
You explore when and where Starfleet tells you too buddy.
I agree with this 100%. I try to do this as Starfleet would have me do if I were actually in it you know? Makes it more interesting. For example when you need to help a ship in distress u don't go off and scan anomolous readings. Really irritates me when people rush to get anomolous readings and don't do what their supposed to do.
Eve has a ludicrous amount of instancing, every single system is separate, every roid field is separate and missions send you into a part of space you have to search for with probes, I don't see how you think that is any more open.
Actually the roid fields are all in the same system with the moons and various other items in each area. You just warp to them because they are very far but if you wanted to travel between them you can do it at normal speed. I think a single zone in eve is as big as the lot of STO zones put together and they look much better.
Actually the roid fields are all in the same system with the moons and various other items in each area. You just warp to them because they are very far but if you wanted to travel between them you can do it at normal speed. I think a single zone in eve is as big as the lot of STO zones put together and they look much better.
Yes, but hoe long has EVE been out?
How long did they have for R&D for that game?
Cause this game has yet TO launch, and what less than 2 years R&D, and youre trying to compare that to a game thats been out how long again?
Comments
the only think i can see that they have in common is that eve works this doesnt
oh i compare mmos too. but i don't expect them to morph in to x mmo because they are both fantasy worlds or in space.
in recent years i've played a lot of wow clones, and often think, if it wants to be like wow so much why doesn't it just do x or y like wow.
but in this case the only thing eve and sto have in common is they are both set in space. STO is not an eve clone.
Ummm you have never played eve have you!! Even though it would prolly take Littery years i cound fly from one roid field to the next and from one planet to the next. That would make those sections of the game HUGE and NON-Instanced. So check you facts before posting and slamming a GOOD game..
There is a good reason for instancing: it reduces costs. Really, instancing has absolutely nothing to do with improving the player experience. The reason for instancing is, by all means, to make the system run in a cost reduced platform.
The size of the instance itself is proportional to its server-side hardware requirements. The smaller the instance requirements, the more the platform cost is reduced. The simpler the server side is, the cheaper it is to pay its maintenance because you don't need top notch system engineers, you can get along with more common folks.
Think of "Instanced" as the oposite to "Persistent". It is really a bad name, it should be called "temporary copy" or maybe "not persistent instance". The characteristic of an instance is that it dies and is lost when its lifecycle ends. That's why any randomly generated system or any other system in this game will never be stored serverside, it only exists for the duration of the mission, as do everything that happens inside it. The only thing persistent in this game is your character advancement (character, BOs, ships and equipment). The world itself is not persistent, but merely a chat hub.
Yes, I agree about EvE. I don't like many things of it, particularly some gameplay aspects, but the persistent, dynamic and vast gameworld is the best if not only example of a space based MMO. Actually the best scaled space game that I have ever played. Your ship is just a dust drop compared to any planet.
The point I want to make is this:
There is a game that has been around for many years now, whose platform, technology, architecture and running costs are exactly in the same league than STO. That game is called Guild Wars. I played that game for a month back in 2004 or so, and I have not any particular interest on it. But the thing is, that Guild Wars has been for many years around as a successful MMO, they have made money with it and is alive and kicking yet. You get to play GW by buying the client for 40 bucks (now less I would think) and you don't need any suscription fee, its free. Expansions aside.
STO has these serious problems with me:
- It is heavily instanced. It is not persistent neither dynamic, just a bunch of chat rooms and lobbies.
- Its instances are small, very small. GW had much bigger instances with a technology much older and for free. This is the most poor depiction of space I have ever seen in a game, from Elite to these days. Because you don't even see the intention to disimulate the limits of the game. You get barriers all around you.
- The only goal of this game is to be as lucrative as possible. But the truly lucrative entertainment products require huge investments. But this game pretends the same result with a B grade title and that, while legit, is unfair and unethical in my book.
- I can't ignore a constant feeling within that I am being charged a price that the product simply is not worth. And this feeling rests on top of another of disappointment because of this unambitious IP recreation. You pay for the box and the suscription as if this were an AAA MMO title, which isn't. They don't even need all that much money to be this a successful business. I won't even mention lifetime suscriptions.
Probably the IP cost has sucked all the game budget. It happens.
Well ... You still have "Space Invaders" to play with
Wow... I think you are expecting too much from the kiddies nowadays !!!!
Wrong. Try again.
Perhaps you had unrealistic expectations? If you try to accept the game for what it is, rather than what you would like it to be, you might enjoy it more. If you don't like the small group or solo space combat of most of the missions, perhaps you might like the larger Fleet Actions?
BTW, I played Eve for a few months - dullest game I ever played, it did not appeal to me. Fortunately we are not forced to play one game rather than another. You pays your money, you takes your choice!
Caveat Emptor. The information was out there. If you walk into a store, close your eyes, grab something, buy it, open your eyes, and it's not what you want, whose fault is it? That is what you did; so you blame the store? NEXT TIME, I suggest you actually RESEARCH a game before buying it instead of saying, "HEY! I've always wanted a game based on this tv show! Why, SURELY this will be EXACTLY WHAT I WANT so I'll buy it blind!" You might be happier in the long run.
thats not your starship, not your crew. You are a member/employee of Starfleet of KDF. You follow their orders, you don't get to take that starship and do as you please, its not yours.
Running around with total freedom does not fit in with the federation/KDF thing this game is built on.
Maybe if we get some neutral civilian factions later.
Could you imagine a tank driver complaining that his CO's won't let him take his M1A1 Battle tank off the to the mountains for a vacation with his family?
You explore when and where Starfleet tells you too buddy.
If you are disappointed that your expectations aren't met, then you only have yourself to blame.
Lesson: Do not make expectations.
Never a truer word spoken.
I have to agree. I was in the closed and the beginning of the open beta and I logged into the the head start and was pleasently surprised at the speed improvement. I'm so fine with instancing.
As far as other planets in the systems goal was to only have the planets were the story would be... Andor in the Andorian system, Earth in the Sol system, etc.
When they did the game they had a couple choices. One is to go with as much realism as you dare to muster, the other is to make it episodic. By episodic I mean it's more like the show. When the ship needed to go to Mavis 4 it didn't show the Enterprise passing Mavis 10-5 it just showed them at Mavis 4. (Granted in Best of Both worlds it showed them passing through the solar system, but that was a storytelling trick to build suspense. STO does this in missions like Stop the Signal.)
Personally I would have been happy with either choice, but I think episodic was the best choice because it allowed them to get the game out quicker because they didn't have to worry about adding content that adds nothing to the mission at hand. Plus you can always add to systems later.
I don't have a problem with it TBH. I think its really great as is. For me, if I wanted to play a free-flowing space type game I would play EvE or more likely X2 or something of the like.
Though I do miss space being 3D lol. huge expanse L, R, Forward and Back... tiny amount of space up and down. I'm hoping they will "resolve" that in time though. The games got plenty to keep my playing.
Ah my bad.... difference between instance and server noted
I agree with this 100%. I try to do this as Starfleet would have me do if I were actually in it you know? Makes it more interesting. For example when you need to help a ship in distress u don't go off and scan anomolous readings. Really irritates me when people rush to get anomolous readings and don't do what their supposed to do.
Itd be a hell of a think to take moose hunting
Actually the roid fields are all in the same system with the moons and various other items in each area. You just warp to them because they are very far but if you wanted to travel between them you can do it at normal speed. I think a single zone in eve is as big as the lot of STO zones put together and they look much better.
Yes, but hoe long has EVE been out?
How long did they have for R&D for that game?
Cause this game has yet TO launch, and what less than 2 years R&D, and youre trying to compare that to a game thats been out how long again?