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Are you happy that most of the old developers were replaced?

kelthuzad#7031 kelthuzad Member Posts: 37 Arc User
I, for one, am happy and welcome the new overlord, DECA!

{Edited thread title. - BMR)
Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
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Comments

  • eazzieeazzie Member Posts: 4,250 Arc User
    Too early to tell yet in my eyes. But glad Thomas and Nick are still onboard.
  • leemwatsonleemwatson Member Posts: 5,507 Arc User
    Nope, they were made redundant, not fired. This was Embracer's fault, not Cryptic's.
    "You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
  • fred26291#2759 fred26291 Member Posts: 1,333 Arc User
    I am still holding judgement on the new Devs.
    Ask me in a few years after they have had a chance to show us what they can do.
  • inferiorityinferiority Member Posts: 4,443 Arc User
    edited December 19
    I'm not happy in the slightest that people lost their jobs and source of income.
    I experience this myself a few years back - right before Christmas too!
    It's an absolutely horrible thing to have happen to you, and it still hurts even after several years!
    I spent almost 4 years unemployed, which wiped out my savings and took a massive toll on my mental and physical health!
    Thankfully, I finally managed to get back into work just as all my money ran out.
    I really hope that all those affected by Embracer's blunder manage to find work quickly!
    - - - - I n f e r i o r i t y - C o m p l e x - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    Everyone has a better name and Youtube Channel than me...  :/
  • davefenestratordavefenestrator Member Posts: 10,689 Arc User
    I disagree with the thread title. No one was "fired," the owners decided to shift work to a different team and the main motivation was probably cost-cutting.

    Am I happy there is a different team? I have no idea yet, it will depend on what resources the new team has. When the owners switched to a cheaper team, did they use the per-developer cost savings to allow for more developers or did they keep the team size the same?

    Even if the team is larger, they've lost all the years of experience from Cryptic staff so they'll probably be less productive at first. We'll need to wait and see the long-term results.
  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 10,472 Arc User
    The motive wasn't "cost-cutting" - both Thomas and Nick were quite open about this when the transition started, DECA would have welcomed them aboard but it would have required moving to Germany (or at the very least operating during German office hours, not exactly convenient when you live in the Bay area). Most all the current devs would have remained on board given their druthers, and DECA would have been happy to have their expertise, but under the circumstances most of them have been employed for the past year training European hires on how to do the job.
    Lorna-Wing-sig.png
  • baddmoonrizinbaddmoonrizin Member Posts: 11,009 Community Moderator
    Umm, just so y'all know, if you're not aware, Bort, Thomas, and Taco are all still on the STO team with DECA.
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  • davefenestratordavefenestrator Member Posts: 10,689 Arc User
    jonsills wrote: »
    The motive wasn't "cost-cutting" - both Thomas and Nick were quite open about this when the transition started, DECA would have welcomed them aboard but it would have required moving to Germany (or at the very least operating during German office hours, not exactly convenient when you live in the Bay area). Most all the current devs would have remained on board given their druthers, and DECA would have been happy to have their expertise, but under the circumstances most of them have been employed for the past year training European hires on how to do the job.

    Thanks. Knowing there's been a long transition period where the new hires had access to the Cryptic staff is a very good sign. If they've been keeping good notes of answers and their own investigations the code and tools might even be better documented now than they were before.
  • sthe91sthe91 Member Posts: 6,014 Arc User
    edited December 20
    No, I was and still am not happy with what happened with Embracer, when a Saudi gaming deal fell through. The CEO should have had a Plan B instead of people leaving their jobs or having to work according to German hours. These men and women should not have had this happen to them. They are not replaceable, they are human beings not robots. As for DECA, I will wait until the transition is complete next year before giving my two cents. With that said, I am glad to see some of the new additions on the team but wish it had been under better circumstances.
    Where there is a Will, there is a Way.
  • proteus#8097 proteus Member Posts: 259 Arc User
    Not glad no. I know what it's like to be made redundant.

    If it means we don't see any more baseball themed outfits though, as a European I'll be happy about that!☺️

    Otherwise it's a wait and see what happens.
  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 10,472 Arc User
    Umm, just so y'all know, if you're not aware, Bort, Thomas, and Taco are all still on the STO team with DECA.
    Thomas got a deal to stay? Cool. He's had enough on his plate lately.
    Lorna-Wing-sig.png
  • theboxisredtheboxisred Member Posts: 482 Arc User
    Happy wouldn't be the right word.

    As of this writing I don't know DECA well enough to like or dislike them as we are still getting through the old guard's last bunch of decisions in game. We probably will be for a little while yet, too.

    At this stage all DECA can do is either impress me, disappoint me, or bore me. I hope it is the former because I've had enough of the latter two.
  • eazzieeazzie Member Posts: 4,250 Arc User
    The deal breaker for me will be seeing if they live up to their promise of delivering polished new content in the new year as detailed in a blog some time ago.
  • scottie270182#2421 scottie270182 Member Posts: 54 Arc User
    Happy certainly isn’t a description I’d be inclined to use, purely because it feels disrespectful to the people who have found themselves out of a job.

    However, I am cautiously optimistic that DECA Games will re-evaluate some of the decisions made by Cryptic, such as the starship interiors that ship aficionados like myself are very passionate about, as there are so many that are still missing.

    Just off the top of my head, the game really needs one of the Enterprise bridges from The Motion Picture, The Wrath of Khan or The Voyage Home, as well as one of ones from The Final Frontier or The Undiscovered Country. I think the logical choices for these would be The Wrath of Khan and The Undiscovered Country, since the way sets are built now, period accurate kits would allow the Reliant and Excelsior variants to be built as well.

    Moving onto The Next Generation era, the Enterprise-E is the only hero ship from that timeframe without a bridge option. I believe First Contact would be the most logical choice, but the version from Insurrection with the standard viewscreen would also be very welcome.

    Going back in time figuratively speaking, the NX-01 is very much in need of a suitable interior, with my preference being the original version used in seasons 1 through 3.

    Of course, those were just from the old productions. More recently, there’s the Enterprise interior from either Discovery or Strange New Worlds, and the Stargazer/Titan-A bridge set from seasons 2 and 3 of Picard.
    Umm, just so y'all know, if you're not aware, Bort, Thomas, and Taco are all still on the STO team with DECA.
    That’s excellent news. These three gentlemen not only have a wealth of experience with the inner workings of the game, but also an immense passion for Star Trek in general. Coupled with knowledge of the Star Trek universe being a key part of the job advertisements I’ve seen over the last year, I can only hope that the road ahead will be as bright as the next star to the right.
    "..to boldly go where no one has gone before."
  • questeriusquesterius Member Posts: 8,498 Arc User
    Not happy if anyone was replaced,but i do hope new management will breathe some new life into the game,
    This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
  • darknovasc01darknovasc01 Member Posts: 187 Arc User
    Never happy to see people losing their employment through no real fault of their own, having had experience myself.

    As far as DECA is concerned, I think I am aligned with most people's opinions - the jury is still out.

    One other thing that hadn't occurred to me before - if the majority(or all?) of the development team is effectively moving to operate on German office hours, could that mean the maintenance schedule is eventually re-alligned to match?
  • baddmoonrizinbaddmoonrizin Member Posts: 11,009 Community Moderator
    One other thing that hadn't occurred to me before - if the majority(or all?) of the development team is effectively moving to operate on German office hours, could that mean the maintenance schedule is eventually re-alligned to match?

    Doubtful. Maintenance times have less to do with office hours and more to do with the lowest population times on the servers.
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  • krisxr400krisxr400 Member Posts: 154 Arc User
    I really don't understand what kind of thread or discussion this is. It's a game that is governed by a corporate entity with one goal, to entice players to give them their money. Does it really matter who's in charge? I can definitely say i am not happy with the star trek ip at all. It has been twisted, dumbed down, at times vulgar, drama that isn't very good, engaging, thought inspiring, or entertaining. I suppose it would be if you don't think about it and just consume mindless entertainment.

    I do think that the previous teams have done a decent job of trying to hold onto what star trek is given the pressure they're under to promote new trek and dissolve the old trek. This is a corporate machine, like all corporate machines in any market they are in, there is only one goal, anything goes to achieve it, give me all of your money. It doesn't matter what consumers, players, or employees emotions or opinions are. They either take your money or they don't. If they push it to far, they don't take your money and go out of business. These aren't the old days when some corporate owners had a soul, today's corporations have no scruples, ethics, and have long abandoned morals. There is no righteousness in corporations, so what does a consumers opinion or emotions have to do with anything?
  • scottie270182#2421 scottie270182 Member Posts: 54 Arc User
    krisxr400 wrote: »
    I can definitely say i am not happy with the star trek ip at all. It has been twisted, dumbed down, at times vulgar, drama that isn't very good, engaging, thought inspiring, or entertaining. I suppose it would be if you don't think about it and just consume mindless entertainment.
    I’m not really sure how the Star Trek IP has been twisted considering The Original Series alone brought us classics like Balance of Terror and The Doomsday Machine on one hand, and Spock’s Brain and Turnabout Intruder on the other. The stories have always varied in quality, and believe it or not, once upon a time The Next Generation was decried as the ruination of the franchise.

    There is certainly an argument to be made that the modern shows employ more contemporary language forms, but to say they’ve been dumbed down fails to take into account the real world science that went into concepts like the Spore Drive.

    Vulgarity is also in the eye of the beholder. Take the use of profanity. When Chief O’Brien yelled bollocks when the time machine that sent his daughter into Bajor’s past wouldn’t work, it illustrated how worried and frustrated he was. Would that scene have worked better if he yelled something clean and wholesome? I sincerely doubt it.

    As for what is and isn’t engaging, thought inspiring or entertaining, that too is in the eye of the beholder, and I enjoyed a great deal of the modern Star Trek shows to varying degrees, and I certainly aren’t a purveyor of mindless entertainment. If I was, I’d suggest Paramount look into creating the Real Housewives of Starfleet Command.
    "..to boldly go where no one has gone before."
  • rattler2rattler2 Member, Star Trek Online Moderator Posts: 58,669 Community Moderator
    Vulgarity is also in the eye of the beholder. Take the use of profanity. When Chief O’Brien yelled bollocks when the time machine that sent his daughter into Bajor’s past wouldn’t work, it illustrated how worried and frustrated he was. Would that scene have worked better if he yelled something clean and wholesome? I sincerely doubt it.

    Not only that, but you also have to consider that it was probably TV Networks that imposed strict language rules, forcing shows to use less colorful language in situations where it would be natural. But even Captain Picard himself said something in TNG at least once, in the episode where he had to deal with the Sheliak and shut them down HARDCORE. Riker said "You enjoyed that", and Picard's response was "You're D*** right". So its not that it didn't exist, its that its a product of its time and Network Rules. Seeing Starfleet Officers swear IMO would not be out of place, especially as a reactionary response to something. Humans will Human after all. And of course other species will have their own colorful language.
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
    normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
    colored text = mod mode
  • risian4#5049 risian4 Member Posts: 9 Arc User
    I'm not happy to see people being fired or otherwise feeling forced to go through the usually very unpleasant and uncertain process of finding another job.

    I am, however, optimistic. Since taking over, the new owners have been very generous. See for example the Typhoon and this year's big event prize. But also the very quick addition of new stuff to the Phoenix box, with a pretty popular ship even.

    Together with this week's bug fixes (on the Temporal spec tree powers) it shows they're willing to devote precious time and resources not just to releasing new ships, but also to things that have been in the game for years now. Given that there are old winter kit modules that are still broken, as well as old content that has been unnecessarily buried and made less accessible, I think this attention for 'established' stuff is a good thing.

    The Winter event on the other hand is a bit underwhelming in terms of new things to use (outside of the event itself I mean - I had hoped for at least new kit modules), but we know they're also busy working on the anniversary event.
  • scottie270182#2421 scottie270182 Member Posts: 54 Arc User
    edited December 21
    rattler2 wrote: »
    Vulgarity is also in the eye of the beholder. Take the use of profanity. When Chief O’Brien yelled bollocks when the time machine that sent his daughter into Bajor’s past wouldn’t work, it illustrated how worried and frustrated he was. Would that scene have worked better if he yelled something clean and wholesome? I sincerely doubt it.

    Not only that, but you also have to consider that it was probably TV Networks that imposed strict language rules, forcing shows to use less colorful language in situations where it would be natural. But even Captain Picard himself said something in TNG at least once, in the episode where he had to deal with the Sheliak and shut them down HARDCORE. Riker said "You enjoyed that", and Picard's response was "You're D*** right". So its not that it didn't exist, its that its a product of its time and Network Rules. Seeing Starfleet Officers swear IMO would not be out of place, especially as a reactionary response to something. Humans will Human after all. And of course other species will have their own colorful language.
    Indeed. Many don't remember this, but Captain Picard was also an absolute potty mouth by TV standards of the 80's during season 1 of TNG. Merde was his choice of profane exclamation, which is of course French for s***. The writers probably only stopped having him say it because the censors cottoned on to it. I believe it was Ron Moore who said the Chief’s outburst probably only made it past them because that particular profane exclamation wasn’t common in the US.
    "..to boldly go where no one has gone before."
  • rattler2rattler2 Member, Star Trek Online Moderator Posts: 58,669 Community Moderator
    Well it made sense because Picard was French.
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
    normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
    colored text = mod mode
  • davefenestratordavefenestrator Member Posts: 10,689 Arc User
    Something that hasn't been mentioned yet: Developers do not decide what features get worked on, what content is added, or what bugs get fixed. Priorities are set by management not developers.

    I'm not with Cryptic or DECA, but at work as a Windows app developer I have a queue of 50+ tickets, and the ordering of those tickets is done by management. I make recommendations and point out problems with leaving something unfixed but the final decision is not mine.

    So the topic really should be asking whether you're happy that management has changed.
  • risian4#5049 risian4 Member Posts: 9 Arc User
    Picard wasn't French.

    Mostly because Patrick Stewart thought that speaking with a French accent would mean he'd have to roleplay a pirate.
  • scottie270182#2421 scottie270182 Member Posts: 54 Arc User
    To be fair, if his French accent would have been anything close to that facer character he played on Freecloud in season 1 of Picard, then he was right.
    "..to boldly go where no one has gone before."
  • rattler2rattler2 Member, Star Trek Online Moderator Posts: 58,669 Community Moderator
    Picard wasn't French.

    Mostly because Patrick Stewart thought that speaking with a French accent would mean he'd have to roleplay a pirate.

    No... Picard is canonically French. He's from La Barre, France. The fact he didn't speak with a French accent in the show doesn't matter in where he was from. He did swear in French though a couple times in the early seasons of TNG.
    https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Jean-Luc_Picard
    hmybzx4cx8xh.png

    To be fair, if his French accent would have been anything close to that facer character he played on Freecloud in season 1 of Picard, then he was right.

    Pretty sure Picard exagurated an accent to sell the disguise.
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
    normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
    colored text = mod mode
  • scottie270182#2421 scottie270182 Member Posts: 54 Arc User
    Oh yeah, that whole facer thing was way over the top. But I do remember Sir Patrick saying he tried a French accent back at the beginning of TNG, and that he thought it was terrible. I suspect he would have sounded more like he did when he spoke French to Number One (his dog) in the vineyard.
    "..to boldly go where no one has gone before."
  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 10,472 Arc User
    edited December 22
    Oh yeah, that whole facer thing was way over the top. But I do remember Sir Patrick saying he tried a French accent back at the beginning of TNG, and that he thought it was terrible. I suspect he would have sounded more like he did when he spoke French to Number One (his dog) in the vineyard.
    He tried it on The Graham Norton Show a while back, when he was demonstrating to Norton why Picard, who was French, didn't speak with a French accent. And Sir Pat was right - his French accent was awful. :lol:
    Lorna-Wing-sig.png
  • phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 5,880 Arc User
    edited December 22
    krisxr400 wrote: »
    I can definitely say i am not happy with the star trek ip at all. It has been twisted, dumbed down, at times vulgar, drama that isn't very good, engaging, thought inspiring, or entertaining. I suppose it would be if you don't think about it and just consume mindless entertainment.
    I’m not really sure how the Star Trek IP has been twisted considering The Original Series alone brought us classics like Balance of Terror and The Doomsday Machine on one hand, and Spock’s Brain and Turnabout Intruder on the other. The stories have always varied in quality, and believe it or not, once upon a time The Next Generation was decried as the ruination of the franchise.

    There is certainly an argument to be made that the modern shows employ more contemporary language forms, but to say they’ve been dumbed down fails to take into account the real world science that went into concepts like the Spore Drive.

    Vulgarity is also in the eye of the beholder. Take the use of profanity. When Chief O’Brien yelled bollocks when the time machine that sent his daughter into Bajor’s past wouldn’t work, it illustrated how worried and frustrated he was. Would that scene have worked better if he yelled something clean and wholesome? I sincerely doubt it.

    As for what is and isn’t engaging, thought inspiring or entertaining, that too is in the eye of the beholder, and I enjoyed a great deal of the modern Star Trek shows to varying degrees, and I certainly aren’t a purveyor of mindless entertainment. If I was, I’d suggest Paramount look into creating the Real Housewives of Starfleet Command.

    The twisting and dumbing down are most noticeable if you use TOS as the baseline since what happened was a kind of devolution from the original as the Trek eras marched on. Obscuring that somewhat is the fact that TV production technology improved in leaps and bounds so the eye candy got better as the story quality (and the tech level in the setting) sank.

    TOS was full-on soft sci-fi ("hard" and "soft" refer to the type of science that a work concentrates on, not to how scientifically accurate it is, btw) done in a mostly serious drama format. Then, between the end of TOS and TAS and the start of Phase II (the Trek series that was dumped in favor of TMP, not the fanflick series of the same name that came later) Star Wars (which was pure space opera) exploded onto the scene and Paramount decided that hijacking the new series was the most expedient way of catching some of that wave of popularity, and so introduced a lot of space opera into Trek. And the trend continued through the Berman era and then went into overdrive with the Kelvin movies and the various Trek series that followed.

    DSC especially had problems because they dumped the drama format almost entirely in favor of melodrama, and a lot of sci-fi fans are uncomfortable with that kind of overemotional, wailing, teeth gnashing dialog and plot elements. Luckily, SNW has gone back to (at least mostly) drama and reintroduced a bit more of soft sci-fi, which makes it more palatable to TOS and other soft sci-fi fans.

    As for the swearing, Roddenberry had a very funny monolog about some of the real behind-the-scenes fights that went on. One of the things that sparked a lot of those fights was the fact that despite being limited to the 10:00 to 11:00 time slot, the show was held to "kid show" standards and could not use language or do many other things that other series could do even in earlier time slots. The fact is that NBC, and Hollywood in general, were not comfortable with science fiction as it was done in novels, probably because "science fiction" was the label they gave both incursion/mad scientist style horror films and kid's show space opera serials and with the ratings being so tight they were risk-averse when something new came along where they didn't have a proven formula to work from, so they applied the restrictions of both to the new sci-fi series.

    Also, on the in-story side of things, Picard is French but probably had at least some schooling in the UK, it isn't that uncommon that someone speaks a foreign language with a native accent (or at least outside of the US where multilingualism is more common anyway) if they have a very good ear for pronunciation and exposure to native speakers.
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