Like ST: Picard that it was inspired by, there is some just something 'off' about the new ESD. Welcome to the Kurtzman-verse I guess.
Tacky Matalist eyesore.
e: one of the greatest propaganda coups in the business world is the aphorism that supply follows demand, when the vast majority of the time it's the other way around. "The customer can have any color they want, as long as it's black." This simply happened because the staff wanted it to happen, same as all of the Disco-era content crammed into the gamelovingly rendered for the fans the last five years. The fact that some people are fine with it is correlation, not causation.
We will not be having any gatekeeping on this forum.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator and Resident She-Wolf
Community Moderators are Unpaid Volunteers and NOT Employees of Gearbox/Cryptic
Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
If I see anything like the flaming rant I just redacted again, I will personally remove you from this forum. No one here speaks for the ENTIRE community and makes threats and demands in the name of the community. This update is happening, so if you don't like it, can't accept it, and are threatening to leave over it, there's the door. 👉🏻 But we don't care to hear about it. Just go.
I can see I made you angry... Now you know how I feel.
I'm sorry for that anger, but personally, I believe that most of the community (who aren't on the forum) will feel the same way about this reskin of ESD. So let me rephrase my previous moderator-redacted comment to be more respectful and less angry, but no less passionate.
First, a little about me personally: As a fifteen year-long player of Star Trek Online, and a launch date lifetime subscriber, I have spent a boatload of money on ships, gear, box keys and everything else in STO, and spent every day I could in this game, from the moment it launched back in the 2000s. I've played every mission, every faction, and every career path multiple times over.
I've based my own roleplays out-of-game, in my Discord and Guilded servers, on my STO ships as well. I've posted screenshots of my obtained ships in a place of pride on my Deviantart profile, written my own backstories for them, and developed my own lore around them. I even developed my own Starfleet subfaction, the Draconia Cosmo Navy, which I use in fanfiction and roleplays both in and out of game.
You could say I am an extremely proud, extremely grateful, extremely passionate superfan, and you would most definitely not be wrong. And because I am such a fan, because I am such a heavily invested party, I feel like I have the best interests of the game in mind.
But because I am so heavily invested and because I am so passionate, I also feel like I have a finger on the pulse of the community. Because of this, I feel as if I must protest these changes, and protest them most strongly.
For decades, Federation starbases looked like Earth Spacedock does now in the hearts and minds of all Star Trek fans, everywhere. For the vast majority of us, the current ESD is how a Starfleet starbase is supposed to look on the outside, regardless of the changes that happened in canon in the latest shows. We all have fond memories of ESD in the movies, games such as Starfleet Command and Bridge Commander, and canonical shows like The Next Generation, Voyager, Deep Space Nine, even Enterprise.
That intense nostalgia for the iconic design is what drove players to ask the developers to change from their original Earth Space Dock concept to one that resembled the one in canon, and that same nostalgia is not about to change just because we saw one starbase that had a different design, in a single show, for a single episode. Or even for a few episodes.
Additionally, many of us old-school fans think the new, post-2009 reboot Star Trek - such as Discovery and Picard - is garbage.
In fact, many of us who are fans of Star Trek Online - myself included - viewed Picard's changes and the on-screen statements regarding the canonized Enterprise-F to be outright disrespectful sacrilege.
It was outrageous and scandalous, a slap in the face, to treat our beloved ship the way they did. How dare they send our Enterprise, a flagship of the fandom and one made by the fandom for the fandom, for scrap instead of giving her a hallowed place of residence in the fleet museum alongside the just-as-beloved Enterprise-D?!
And so comes the question: Much as Starbase One didn't become the new Earth Space Dock when the highly-controversial Discovery came out and instead became a separate station near ESD, why should the Picard Earth Space Dock become the new Earth Space Dock for our game, a game where the vast majority of the player base believes that the current ESD exterior is how a Federation starbase like ESD should always look on the outside?
Why not follow the example of Discovery's Starbase One in the game and put the Picard Earth Space Dock in its' own system near our Earth Space Dock, keeping and updating both stations so as to not upset the long-term fans of both the game and the franchise but also supporting new ones?
We all know that this is possible, the game does follow its' own separate timeline as previous community manager Ambassador Kael stressed repeatedly. Because we do follow our own timeline, we actually can have the best of all worlds, or timelines as it may be. Not just one or the other, but all of them.
And the argument for doing this is strong, especially when highly-controversial changes like these are how Star Trek Legacy and the Section 31 television series died before seeing a single episode made: The Star Trek fanbase rejected them, just as I am confident that they will reject this reskin of the exterior of Star Trek Online's Earth Space Dock based on their shared perspective, one which I also share both as a player of STO and as a fellow Trekkie.
Therefore, if this change goes through, I feel - and fear - that Star Trek Online will be next as a majority of players leave the game. The fanbase of Online rejected Star Trek Picard, Star Trek Legacy, and Star Trek Section 31, and they will reject these changes as well just as they rejected the show they came from.
As I said earlier, a key example of this is the outrage at the fate of our Enterprise, Star Trek Online's Enterprise, and its' replacement with the Titan-A/Enterprise-G, which lead to the outright cancellation of Star Trek Legacy when the fandom rebelled. And it is the outrage at the new Picard-based Earth Space Dock that, I feel, will result in the permanent closing of Star Trek Online. And that's not a threat, but a statement of fact based on prior things that happened with the Star Trek franchise.
Now, while I again do not speak for the community in any capacity, I do have a general feel of how it seems to be looking from their perspective overall. As I said in my opening, I feel like I have a finger on the pulse of the community at large.
Because of this, I ask you to believe me when I say that a mass rejection of these changes and the resulting exodus of players - which I feel is inevitable due to these changes to a beloved station from the appearance it has held, both in the game for decades and canonically for centuries - could not have happened to a better game IMHO. It will be an extremely sad day for us all, me included, when and if the exodus happens.
Speaking for myself and only for myself, I will miss Star Trek Online when and if I leave the game; something I once thought I would never do. But that day has not yet come.
If that day does come however, on the day the game dies for me, this will be its' epitaph: "Live long and prosper, Star Trek Online. You will live on forever in my heart." For I wish this game all the best because of all the memories it gave me, and regardless of my personal feelings towards the Picard version of Earth Space Dock.
Edited to avoid spamming.
Okay, lets put this into perspective.
The last time we saw ESD onscreen was in TNG......30 years prior to 2409. The space frame is over 100 years old, so why wouldn't they build a new version or update it in that time to accommodate larger ships docking?? Why wouldn't they build a completely new station?? It's not like they didn't have the resource or time to do it.
You have no legitimate argument to backup anything you have said and you do not get to gate-keep what happens in canon nor whether STO can follow suit or not, and no, your view most certainly does not represent the majority. I've yet to see any outrage you proclaim in-game on PC or Xbox, and yes, I too have been playing near 15 years, on every day, spent bucket loads, have fleets of my own.
Whilst STO is not canon, it does follow canon in the majority, and if it's on-screen via TV or Film, it's canon, end of.
Personally, I can't wait for it to hit Holodeck.
In my opinion, getting rid of current ESD and changing it like that, is like getting rid of the Enterprise-F. Just because it's canon, that doesn't mean we should automatically change it.
A minority of players want this change. Not the majority.
Did you take a poll of the ENTIRE STO community?? No, you didn't, because I know *I* wasn't asked. You have no idea about what a minority or a major of the community wants or doesn't want. Only what YOU want/don't want. I suggest you stop trying to speak for anyone other than yourself. You're gatekeeping. I suggest you stop that as well.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator and Resident She-Wolf
Community Moderators are Unpaid Volunteers and NOT Employees of Gearbox/Cryptic
Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
In my opinion, getting rid of current ESD and changing it like that, is like getting rid of the Enterprise-F. Just because it's canon, that doesn't mean we should automatically change it.
A minority of players want this change. Not the majority.
You are welcome to your opinion, and you stated it was your OPINION. But again... you do NOT speak for the community. You cannot put words in my mouth, or the mouth of any other member of this community. Everyone has their own opinion. You cannot say for absolute fact what the community wants. In fact I think the ONLY way someone can say "I speak for the community" is when they say to someone "you don't speak for the community".
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
For what it's worth, I don't want Picard stuff in STO either unless it's justified as stuff swiped from alternate timelines like with the mirror universe, simply because the continuities are incompatible. Cryptic's trying to have it both ways here and that's just not going to work. I'd rather see content tying into Strange New Worlds: give the Gorn some play for the first time in forever, maybe visit with the Illyrians and Kileans.
But you're not "speaking for everyone", you're just being a TRIBBLE. Stop it.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
You know it’s strange, I really don’t recall seeing any of this outrage over the treatment of Enterprise-F in Picard. I do remember seeing opinions that ranged from how cool it was for it to be canonised to apathy over them using a ship that none of the characters had a connection to though. In fact, the biggest complaint I saw was that it wasn’t the Enterprise-E, since it was home to Picard and his crew for longer than the Enterprise-D was.
That's because they ended the series and the one it came from before they could do any more damage to the Enterprise's reputation.
Over on this game's subReddit, people were ready to raise absolute hell over CBS/Paramount's treatment of the Enterprise-F, but they were calmed by the fact that Picard ended and Legacy died, so the two shows that used both the F and the G are no more.
People thought that there was no risk of the G coming to Star Trek Online and replacing the F, or of the Star Trek Online Earth Spacedock being replaced by the extremely controversial "abomination" (multiple people's opinion) that is the Picard ESD design. That was added to by Kael's statements on the matter, statements that have now been upended by the new team.
I firmly believe, based on my own observations, that of the community has thoughts that aligned more like CapnSpanky, CaptainHunter, and starswordc's words. Quote:
Like ST: Picard that it was inspired by, there is some just something 'off' about the new ESD. Welcome to the Kurtzman-verse I guess.
Tacky Matalist eyesore.
e: one of the greatest propaganda coups in the business world is the aphorism that supply follows demand, when the vast majority of the time it's the other way around. "The customer can have any color they want, as long as it's black." This simply happened because the staff wanted it to happen, same as all of the Disco-era content crammed into the gamelovingly rendered for the fans the last five years. The fact that some people are fine with it is correlation, not causation.
For what it's worth, I don't want Picard stuff in STO either unless it's justified as stuff swiped from alternate timelines like with the mirror universe, simply because the continuities are incompatible. Cryptic's trying to have it both ways here and that's just not going to work. I'd rather see content tying into Strange New Worlds: give the Gorn some play for the first time in forever, maybe visit with the Illyrians and Kileans.
So you better believe that the previous apathy is going to change and you're going to see a lot more of said anti-Picard, anti-Discovery outrage now that they've been made the effective centerpiece of Star Trek Online's community.
You’ve made the common mistake of thinking that because a thousand people are yelling; the million that are silent don’t exist.
So someone may be gatekeeping, but it isn't us four, and those gates are holding back a flood. Our opinions might be unpopular here on the forums, but out in the wider game and the wider community at large, not so much.
I may not have taken a poll of the entire community, and I do not pretend to speak for them at all, but based on what I have done, I still feel confident in my statement that this redesign will be near-universally hated.
I hate to say these things, but the truth hurts, and it will hurt more when this change goes live.
Did you take a poll of the ENTIRE STO community?? No, you didn't, because I know *I* wasn't asked. You have no idea about what a minority or a major of the community wants or doesn't want. Only what YOU want/don't want. I suggest you stop trying to speak for anyone other than yourself. You're gatekeeping. I suggest you stop that as well.
Sir, we need to talk in private. I have some unpleasant-but-true things to say to you - things that you will not like and will likely upset you personally - and I'd rather not break the rules of the forum while doing so. Can you please private message me? I promise to be respectful and non-flaming, though I will be blunt and cannot promise what I am about to say to you in private will not hurt.
I ask this out of respect, not out of a desire to talk back to you or do anything else stupid. You're still a moderator after all, and I have no desire to get that ban you threatened me with last night.
Excuse me? SIR???? I'm going to respectfully ask you to step off. 🤨
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator and Resident She-Wolf
Community Moderators are Unpaid Volunteers and NOT Employees of Gearbox/Cryptic
Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
My previous comment wasn't granting permission for you to repost your rant. I was informing you of the reality of the situation. You are allowed to like/dislike whatever you like/dislike, but you do not speak for the majority of people in this game. I would hope many responses here have shown you that. While my cohort can be forgiving, their patience is not unlimited. I advised you not to poke the bear for a reason. If you have issues with moderation, I would advise sending a PM to the relevant mod. It's clear you can't be convinced, and you're not going to convince certain people. So I advise you to quit while you're behind.
Now off the books, I'm indifferent one way or the other on this change. If it improves the zone then cool. I'm not a fan of alot of Discovery or some of the elements of Picard, but I get that other folks are. If it bothers me enough I just don't interact with or use stuff from those shows if it appears in game.
"Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations
My previous comment wasn't granting permission for you to repost your rant. I was informing you of the reality of the situation. You are allowed to like/dislike whatever you like/dislike, but you do not speak for the majority of people in this game. I would hope many responses here have shown you that. While my cohort can be forgiving, their patience is not unlimited. I advised you not to poke the bear for a reason. If you have issues with moderation, I would advise sending a PM to the relevant mod. It's clear you can't be convinced, and you're not going to convince certain people. So I advise you to quit while you're behind.
I have already done as you advised and sent a PM to Ms. Baddmoonrizin. You are correct in that I most likely will not be convinced, nor will I convince others. I also agree that those of us who don't like these changes should quit while we are behind. I cannot and will not pretend to speak for others, and will therefore not.
I intend to send you a PM as well which I will do shortly, as I have issues with some of your statements. Thank you.
I for one am supportive of the new Spacedock design. I do hope the old Spacedock though is preserved, perhaps used to make the Fleet Museum as shown in Picard.
One wish for the new ESD I do have though is the ability to fly into the inside of the spacedock hangars without being automatically docked, that way I could recreate things like the Enterprise-F launching from Spacedock in the show.
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,669Community Moderator
I for one am supportive of the new Spacedock design. I do hope the old Spacedock though is preserved, perhaps used to make the Fleet Museum as shown in Picard.
That's kinda my hope too. Have the Fleet Museum be a place we can visit, with all the hero ships on display. Can still have the "traveling museum" that we've had at DS9 and ESD. Would also be a good chance to touch up the station as well. I mean we got Wolf 359 Memorial Museum. Would be cool to have Athan Prime.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
Nah...a beer maybe. I don't think she's remotely intimidated
"You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
1. Will console players also get this update?! I really enjoy all the new content PC players get so I’m hopeful we will get this also! 😁
2. I was wondering if Cryptic would ever consider adding a “time worm hole” (kind of like deep space 9 worm hole leads to the gamma quadrant, Dyson Sphere leads to the Delta Quadrant and Sphere) which could lead to different time era themed maps and star bases to match ships to their time periods and even missions much like the main map we have now?
Always thought that might be a cool way to expand into new content for players and themes to create new ships, items and more for us players buy based off an expansion of our current map.
Any event, thanks for everything you all do I continue to enjoy all the content you all 💭 dream💭 up! Keep it going ! ! ! 😁
Post edited by outofphase#8153 on
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,669Community Moderator
1. Will console players also get this update?! I really enjoy all the new content PC players get so I’m hopeful we will get this also! 😁
2. I was wondering if Cryptic would ever consider adding a “time worm hole” (kind of like deep space 9 worm hole leads to the gamma quadrant, Dyson Sphere leads to the Delta Quadrant and Sphere) which could lead to different time era themed maps and star bases to match ships to their time periods and even missions much like the main map we have now?
Always thought that might be a cool way to expand into new content for players and themes to create new ships, items and more for us players buy based off an expansion of our current map.
Any event, thanks for everything you all do I continue to enjoy all the content you all 💭 dream💭 up! Keep it going ! ! ! 😁
We may have answers.
Yes. Console will get this as well. I don't know if they're gonna shoot for a coordinated launch for all three platforms or the usual PC gets it first, followed by Console later, but yes. All three platforms will get the update.
I doubt it. The majority of STO takes place in the 25th Century. Any Temporally displaced characters move into the 25th Century after their specific era arc is done. Admittedly some people have wanted to be able to revisit the old TOS/DSC era maps, but at this time... its unlikely we'll get a gateway back to the past. Will that change with DECA? Don't know. But as of right now... as I said it is unlikely.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
That's because they ended the series and the one it came from before they could do any more damage to the Enterprise's reputation.
Over on this game's subReddit, people were ready to raise absolute hell over CBS/Paramount's treatment of the Enterprise-F, but they were calmed by the fact that Picard ended and Legacy died, so the two shows that used both the F and the G are no more.
People thought that there was no risk of the G coming to Star Trek Online and replacing the F, or of the Star Trek Online Earth Spacedock being replaced by the extremely controversial "abomination" (multiple people's opinion) that is the Picard ESD design. That was added to by Kael's statements on the matter, statements that have now been upended by the new team.
Before season three of Picard began, the Enterprise-F had no reputation in the canon. When STO created it, it was so the game would have its own Enterprise with a captain who would be available to appear on a regular basis.
Also, what you’re calling a reputation is for the most part two years worth of accolades that actually belong to the player and their crew. Now I like Captain Shon, but you have to admit, when left to his own devices, he has a habit of getting his ships blown to pieces. First he lost the Belfast against the rogue Jem’Hadar, and then half the Enterprise-F was destroyed in the final battle against the Iconians. In fact, the later ship is only still in service due to the publicity coup of refitting the remains to the Yorktown spec.
In comparison, Star Trek Picard has given the ship almost twenty years of active service that can be delved into in the future, a starring role during one of the most important events in Federation history, and left the ship’s fate open as of 2401, since the Fleet Formation System was still active when the Enterprise-D destroyed the Borg super cube.
That means that the Enterprise-F can still be waiting in drydock for Captain Shon to reactivate during the Dominion crisis of 2409, in the true Enterprise tradition of answering the call to save civilisation as we know it.
I firmly believe, based on my own observations, that of the community has thoughts that aligned more like CapnSpanky, CaptainHunter, and starswordc's words. Quote:
Like ST: Picard that it was inspired by, there is some just something 'off' about the new ESD. Welcome to the Kurtzman-verse I guess.
Tacky Matalist eyesore.
e: one of the greatest propaganda coups in the business world is the aphorism that supply follows demand, when the vast majority of the time it's the other way around. "The customer can have any color they want, as long as it's black." This simply happened because the staff wanted it to happen, same as all of the Disco-era content crammed into the gamelovingly rendered for the fans the last five years. The fact that some people are fine with it is correlation, not causation.
For what it's worth, I don't want Picard stuff in STO either unless it's justified as stuff swiped from alternate timelines like with the mirror universe, simply because the continuities are incompatible. Cryptic's trying to have it both ways here and that's just not going to work. I'd rather see content tying into Strange New Worlds: give the Gorn some play for the first time in forever, maybe visit with the Illyrians and Kileans.
So you better believe that the previous apathy is going to change and you're going to see a lot more of said anti-Picard, anti-Discovery outrage now that they've been made the effective centerpiece of Star Trek Online's community.
Here’s the thing, you’ve taken the three comments that agree with your opinion and decided that because they align with your sentiments, that is how the majority must feel. You’ve even cited the STO subreddit, which I also peruse on a regular basis. Having read those threads with interest back when the Enterprise-F made her debut in canon and seeing no such outcry, I must conclude that you’ve also cherry picked the comments that agreed with you there as well.
You’ve made the common mistake of thinking that because a thousand people are yelling; the million that are silent don’t exist.
So someone may be gatekeeping, but it isn't us four, and those gates are holding back a flood. Our opinions might be unpopular here on the forums, but out in the wider game and the wider community at large, not so much.
It’s not that your comments are unpopular. It’s that you’ve chosen the most verbose self aggrandizing way of sharing them possible. Your comments so far appear to have ranged from fearmongering to attempts at emotionally blackmailing Cryptic and DECA into thinking their bottom line is at stake.
What you call a flood, I call an upturned glass of water. Yes, you are gatekeeping, and by attempting to turn that around onto me, you’ve well and truly shown yourself up.
I may not have taken a poll of the entire community, and I do not pretend to speak for them at all, but based on what I have done, I still feel confident in my statement that this redesign will be near-universally hated.
Except for when you use words like the “community at large” and “universally hated” of course.
I hate to say these things, but the truth hurts, and it will hurt more when this change goes live.
This is the difference between you and me. I actually am reading the room. Will there be people who dislike the change. Of course there will, but the notion that upgrading the Sol System will cause a mass exodus is just downright dishonest.
But because I am so heavily invested and because I am so passionate, I also feel like I have a finger on the pulse of the community. Because of this, I feel as if I must protest these changes, and protest them most strongly.
You don't speak for me and I don't share your opinion. I've been watching Trek since it was just TOS and TAS and have been playing STO since 2012. The change looks nice, though woefully un-TOS-like
I don't mind the addition of the pods and whatnot, it actually makes it look more like a typical Federation station, from my point of view the movie station looked a bit out of place.
What I and a lot of the TOS fans I have talked to consider the ESD equivalent was the old "Starfleet HQ" satellite from Franz Joseph Designs, which before Roddenberry and Joseph had their falling out was being promoted as part of canon (just like the FASA Star Trek game was considered "canon ready" until Paramount didn't renew FASA's license). The funny thing is that JJ Abrams "stole" that design more or less (it's smaller and has a sphere for the central hub for the Kelvin version of ESD rather than the much bigger oblate spheroid of the FJD version) and the new STO ESD is kind of a cross between the movie ESD and the FJD/Kelvin one. To me, that actually gives more of a nostalgic feel than the plain movie version that is currently used in STO.
I read the Reddits and FB announcements from this, I must have counted maybe 20 at best that complained....out of near 400 posts. You're right about the poster not being able to read the room.
I'm not going to say anything more about that poster's conduct than you've already said.
"You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
But because I am so heavily invested and because I am so passionate, I also feel like I have a finger on the pulse of the community. Because of this, I feel as if I must protest these changes, and protest them most strongly.
You don't speak for me and I don't share your opinion. I've been watching Trek since it was just TOS and TAS and have been playing STO since 2012. The change looks nice, though woefully un-TOS-like
Hey Dave, long time no talk always enjoyed the exciting debates with you; despite it's been quite a while!
Hope some of the things they have planned, are exciting and enriching for STO, and will bring the sense of excitement back to Star Trek Online!
I think the 'cat' Thomas has some interesting things planned, have absolutely no clue what this will be though?
I read the Reddits and FB announcements from this, I must have counted maybe 20 at best that complained....out of near 400 posts. You're right about the poster not being able to read the room.
I'm not going to say anything more about that poster's conduct than you've already said.
Yeah, the response was about what you'd expect really. Generally positive with some mixed reactions, and a handful that were right out of the playbook of the worst that YouTube has to offer.
Interestingly, the reaction to Probert Station being added to the game has been more positive than I expected. A key talking point I've seen is the station's ability to withstand constant fire from the 300 plus ships making up the Borg Armada for an extended period, and the hope that the anniversary episode will show just how fearsome an opponent it can be, if the Aetherians prove to be the wolves in sheep's clothing they appear to be.
Oh, and on the subject of the new Spacedock facility, Tumerboy has added it to his Artstation account. The last two images show a breakdown of the kit he's used to create it. Hopefully the parts for the original Spacedock can be added in the future, as I'd really like to see the grand old lady take her rightful place at Athan Prime as the Fleet Museum.
While I love the update to ESD, I do hope (but not holding my breath based on pervious assets that has vanished) that you use the already created assets somewhere else. Based on the lore there are hundreds of starbases around Federation space. I'd love to see even the original ESD reused somewhere else. There are planets we can visit that doesn't have starbases now. Put them in a couple of those. Please.
While I love the update to ESD, I do hope (but not holding my breath based on pervious assets that has vanished) that you use the already created assets somewhere else. Based on the lore there are hundreds of starbases around Federation space. I'd love to see even the original ESD reused somewhere else. There are planets we can visit that doesn't have starbases now. Put them in a couple of those. Please.
Honestly it wouldn't surprise me at all that many of the old assets not used in-game are still there in the database. I mean back when Foundry was still a thing we had access to the pre-remake asset for the ESD IIRC.
I read the Reddits and FB announcements from this, I must have counted maybe 20 at best that complained....out of near 400 posts. You're right about the poster not being able to read the room.
I'm not going to say anything more about that poster's conduct than you've already said.
Yeah, the response was about what you'd expect really. Generally positive with some mixed reactions, and a handful that were right out of the playbook of the worst that YouTube has to offer.
Interestingly, the reaction to Probert Station being added to the game has been more positive than I expected. A key talking point I've seen is the station's ability to withstand constant fire from the 300 plus ships making up the Borg Armada for an extended period, and the hope that the anniversary episode will show just how fearsome an opponent it can be, if the Aetherians prove to be the wolves in sheep's clothing they appear to be.
Oh, and on the subject of the new Spacedock facility, Tumerboy has added it to his Artstation account. The last two images show a breakdown of the kit he's used to create it. Hopefully the parts for the original Spacedock can be added in the future, as I'd really like to see the grand old lady take her rightful place at Athan Prime as the Fleet Museum.
Actually seeing a Federation starbase fight was awesome, it's just a shame the ones in game are no more powerful than an Oberth Although it would be 'old hat' if the Aetherians were wolves, I'd hope that the writers are throwing a screwball in this case
"You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
If I see anything like the flaming rant I just redacted again, I will personally remove you from this forum. No one here speaks for the ENTIRE community and makes threats and demands in the name of the community. This update is happening, so if you don't like it, can't accept it, and are threatening to leave over it, there's the door. 👉🏻 But we don't care to hear about it. Just go.
I can see I made you angry... Now you know how I feel.
I'm sorry for that anger, but personally, I believe that most of the community (who aren't on the forum) will feel the same way about this reskin of ESD. So let me rephrase my previous moderator-redacted comment to be more respectful and less angry, but no less passionate.
First, a little about me personally: As a fifteen year-long player of Star Trek Online, and a launch date lifetime subscriber, I have spent a boatload of money on ships, gear, box keys and everything else in STO, and spent every day I could in this game, from the moment it launched back in the 2000s. I've played every mission, every faction, and every career path multiple times over.
I've based my own roleplays out-of-game, in my Discord and Guilded servers, on my STO ships as well. I've posted screenshots of my obtained ships in a place of pride on my Deviantart profile, written my own backstories for them, and developed my own lore around them. I even developed my own Starfleet subfaction, the Draconia Cosmo Navy, which I use in fanfiction and roleplays both in and out of game.
You could say I am an extremely proud, extremely grateful, extremely passionate superfan, and you would most definitely not be wrong. And because I am such a fan, because I am such a heavily invested party, I feel like I have the best interests of the game in mind.
But because I am so heavily invested and because I am so passionate, I also feel like I have a finger on the pulse of the community. Because of this, I feel as if I must protest these changes, and protest them most strongly.
For decades, Federation starbases looked like Earth Spacedock does now in the hearts and minds of all Star Trek fans, everywhere. For the vast majority of us, the current ESD is how a Starfleet starbase is supposed to look on the outside, regardless of the changes that happened in canon in the latest shows. We all have fond memories of ESD in the movies, games such as Starfleet Command and Bridge Commander, and canonical shows like The Next Generation, Voyager, Deep Space Nine, even Enterprise.
That intense nostalgia for the iconic design is what drove players to ask the developers to change from their original Earth Space Dock concept to one that resembled the one in canon, and that same nostalgia is not about to change just because we saw one starbase that had a different design, in a single show, for a single episode. Or even for a few episodes.
Additionally, many of us old-school fans think the new, post-2009 reboot Star Trek - such as Discovery and Picard - is garbage.
In fact, many of us who are fans of Star Trek Online - myself included - viewed Picard's changes and the on-screen statements regarding the canonized Enterprise-F to be outright disrespectful sacrilege.
It was outrageous and scandalous, a slap in the face, to treat our beloved ship the way they did. How dare they send our Enterprise, a flagship of the fandom and one made by the fandom for the fandom, for scrap instead of giving her a hallowed place of residence in the fleet museum alongside the just-as-beloved Enterprise-D?!
And so comes the question: Much as Starbase One didn't become the new Earth Space Dock when the highly-controversial Discovery came out and instead became a separate station near ESD, why should the Picard Earth Space Dock become the new Earth Space Dock for our game, a game where the vast majority of the player base believes that the current ESD exterior is how a Federation starbase like ESD should always look on the outside?
Why not follow the example of Discovery's Starbase One in the game and put the Picard Earth Space Dock in its' own system near our Earth Space Dock, keeping and updating both stations so as to not upset the long-term fans of both the game and the franchise but also supporting new ones?
We all know that this is possible, the game does follow its' own separate timeline as previous community manager Ambassador Kael stressed repeatedly. Because we do follow our own timeline, we actually can have the best of all worlds, or timelines as it may be. Not just one or the other, but all of them.
And the argument for doing this is strong, especially when highly-controversial changes like these are how Star Trek Legacy and the Section 31 television series died before seeing a single episode made: The Star Trek fanbase rejected them, just as I am confident that they will reject this reskin of the exterior of Star Trek Online's Earth Space Dock based on their shared perspective, one which I also share both as a player of STO and as a fellow Trekkie.
Therefore, if this change goes through, I feel - and fear - that Star Trek Online will be next as a majority of players leave the game. The fanbase of Online rejected Star Trek Picard, Star Trek Legacy, and Star Trek Section 31, and they will reject these changes as well just as they rejected the show they came from.
As I said earlier, a key example of this is the outrage at the fate of our Enterprise, Star Trek Online's Enterprise, and its' replacement with the Titan-A/Enterprise-G, which lead to the outright cancellation of Star Trek Legacy when the fandom rebelled. And it is the outrage at the new Picard-based Earth Space Dock that, I feel, will result in the permanent closing of Star Trek Online. And that's not a threat, but a statement of fact based on prior things that happened with the Star Trek franchise.
Now, while I again do not speak for the community in any capacity, I do have a general feel of how it seems to be looking from their perspective overall. As I said in my opening, I feel like I have a finger on the pulse of the community at large.
Because of this, I ask you to believe me when I say that a mass rejection of these changes and the resulting exodus of players - which I feel is inevitable due to these changes to a beloved station from the appearance it has held, both in the game for decades and canonically for centuries - could not have happened to a better game IMHO. It will be an extremely sad day for us all, me included, when and if the exodus happens.
Speaking for myself and only for myself, I will miss Star Trek Online when and if I leave the game; something I once thought I would never do. But that day has not yet come.
If that day does come however, on the day the game dies for me, this will be its' epitaph: "Live long and prosper, Star Trek Online. You will live on forever in my heart." For I wish this game all the best because of all the memories it gave me, and regardless of my personal feelings towards the Picard version of Earth Space Dock.
Edited to avoid spamming.
I think your remarks about aesthetic continuity are excellent! For me, as a long-time fan, it’s also incomprehensible why such an iconic and perfect design like Carson's ESD should be replaced, rather than being kept as a respectful link to the origins of Star Trek at the core of STO. There are plenty of opportunities for the creators of the new series and films to experiment with their own creations to expand the Star Trek universe. But why then also mess with iconic designs like the look of the Klingons, Ferengi, or the ESD? It’s a lack of respect for their predecessors... No one would mess with David, or with the rear spoiler of a Cadillac, just because they are old - and honestly, Carson's ESD still looks super-modern. Recently, a designer from STO wrote on BlueSky about the new ESD, that STO is not forced to copy everything 1:1:
In comparison, Star Trek Picard has given the ship almost twenty years of active service that can be delved into in the future, a starring role during one of the most important events in Federation history, and left the ship’s fate open as of 2401, since the Fleet Formation System was still active when the Enterprise-D destroyed the Borg super cube.
That means that the Enterprise-F can still be waiting in drydock for Captain Shon to reactivate during the Dominion crisis of 2409, in the true Enterprise tradition of answering the call to save civilisation as we know it.
That means something will have to happen to the Enterprise-G. Something possibly catastrophic.
In all fairness, we keep forgetting that STO is in its own universe. Personally, I call it the "Online-verse" as many things that take place in the game as well as events leading up to the game's official story contradict the new established canon.
I'll admit, I'm an old school fan, and not really big on Kurtzman Trek, myself. But that being said, an upgraded design for ESD makes sense to me. Of course as ships get bigger and more technologically complex, they would need a more advanced facility to be able to handle those new ships. Of course, as another poster pointed out, this new facility could be very well be the new ESD, while the older model could have been repurposed for something else. A civilian spacedock for privately owned ships, perhaps? Makes sense to me. How often have real life militaries repurposed their facilities and equipment for civilian use?
And what's wrong with upgrading the look? The Enterprise gets an overhaul and looks sleeker in ST:TMP and everyone loves it. ESD gets a similar overhaul and people go nuts?
Comments
Tacky Matalist eyesore.
e: one of the greatest propaganda coups in the business world is the aphorism that supply follows demand, when the vast majority of the time it's the other way around. "The customer can have any color they want, as long as it's black." This simply happened because the staff wanted it to happen, same as all of the Disco-era content crammed into the game lovingly rendered for the fans the last five years. The fact that some people are fine with it is correlation, not causation.
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In my opinion, getting rid of current ESD and changing it like that, is like getting rid of the Enterprise-F. Just because it's canon, that doesn't mean we should automatically change it.
A minority of players want this change. Not the majority.
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You are welcome to your opinion, and you stated it was your OPINION. But again... you do NOT speak for the community. You cannot put words in my mouth, or the mouth of any other member of this community. Everyone has their own opinion. You cannot say for absolute fact what the community wants. In fact I think the ONLY way someone can say "I speak for the community" is when they say to someone "you don't speak for the community".
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But you're not "speaking for everyone", you're just being a TRIBBLE. Stop it.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
That's because they ended the series and the one it came from before they could do any more damage to the Enterprise's reputation.
Over on this game's subReddit, people were ready to raise absolute hell over CBS/Paramount's treatment of the Enterprise-F, but they were calmed by the fact that Picard ended and Legacy died, so the two shows that used both the F and the G are no more.
People thought that there was no risk of the G coming to Star Trek Online and replacing the F, or of the Star Trek Online Earth Spacedock being replaced by the extremely controversial "abomination" (multiple people's opinion) that is the Picard ESD design. That was added to by Kael's statements on the matter, statements that have now been upended by the new team.
I firmly believe, based on my own observations, that of the community has thoughts that aligned more like CapnSpanky, CaptainHunter, and starswordc's words. Quote:
So you better believe that the previous apathy is going to change and you're going to see a lot more of said anti-Picard, anti-Discovery outrage now that they've been made the effective centerpiece of Star Trek Online's community.
To throw your own words back at you:
So someone may be gatekeeping, but it isn't us four, and those gates are holding back a flood. Our opinions might be unpopular here on the forums, but out in the wider game and the wider community at large, not so much.
I may not have taken a poll of the entire community, and I do not pretend to speak for them at all, but based on what I have done, I still feel confident in my statement that this redesign will be near-universally hated.
I hate to say these things, but the truth hurts, and it will hurt more when this change goes live.
Sir, we need to talk in private. I have some unpleasant-but-true things to say to you - things that you will not like and will likely upset you personally - and I'd rather not break the rules of the forum while doing so. Can you please private message me? I promise to be respectful and non-flaming, though I will be blunt and cannot promise what I am about to say to you in private will not hurt.
I ask this out of respect, not out of a desire to talk back to you or do anything else stupid. You're still a moderator after all, and I have no desire to get that ban you threatened me with last night.
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"Sir" as a respectful sign, I did not know your gender. I'm guessing you're a female based on that response. My apologies.
Despite my attitude I am at least trying to be respectful here. Hence my request to talk to you in private.
Now off the books, I'm indifferent one way or the other on this change. If it improves the zone then cool. I'm not a fan of alot of Discovery or some of the elements of Picard, but I get that other folks are. If it bothers me enough I just don't interact with or use stuff from those shows if it appears in game.
Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
I have already done as you advised and sent a PM to Ms. Baddmoonrizin. You are correct in that I most likely will not be convinced, nor will I convince others. I also agree that those of us who don't like these changes should quit while we are behind. I cannot and will not pretend to speak for others, and will therefore not.
I intend to send you a PM as well which I will do shortly, as I have issues with some of your statements. Thank you.
One wish for the new ESD I do have though is the ability to fly into the inside of the spacedock hangars without being automatically docked, that way I could recreate things like the Enterprise-F launching from Spacedock in the show.
That's kinda my hope too. Have the Fleet Museum be a place we can visit, with all the hero ships on display. Can still have the "traveling museum" that we've had at DS9 and ESD. Would also be a good chance to touch up the station as well. I mean we got Wolf 359 Memorial Museum. Would be cool to have Athan Prime.
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Let's all give @baddmoonrizin a Hug? Or it is time for a Wedding? Computer...
https://x.com/i/status/1867098385137930514
Nah...a beer maybe. I don't think she's remotely intimidated
1. Will console players also get this update?! I really enjoy all the new content PC players get so I’m hopeful we will get this also! 😁
2. I was wondering if Cryptic would ever consider adding a “time worm hole” (kind of like deep space 9 worm hole leads to the gamma quadrant, Dyson Sphere leads to the Delta Quadrant and Sphere) which could lead to different time era themed maps and star bases to match ships to their time periods and even missions much like the main map we have now?
Always thought that might be a cool way to expand into new content for players and themes to create new ships, items and more for us players buy based off an expansion of our current map.
Any event, thanks for everything you all do I continue to enjoy all the content you all 💭 dream💭 up! Keep it going ! ! ! 😁
We may have answers.
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Also, what you’re calling a reputation is for the most part two years worth of accolades that actually belong to the player and their crew. Now I like Captain Shon, but you have to admit, when left to his own devices, he has a habit of getting his ships blown to pieces. First he lost the Belfast against the rogue Jem’Hadar, and then half the Enterprise-F was destroyed in the final battle against the Iconians. In fact, the later ship is only still in service due to the publicity coup of refitting the remains to the Yorktown spec.
In comparison, Star Trek Picard has given the ship almost twenty years of active service that can be delved into in the future, a starring role during one of the most important events in Federation history, and left the ship’s fate open as of 2401, since the Fleet Formation System was still active when the Enterprise-D destroyed the Borg super cube.
That means that the Enterprise-F can still be waiting in drydock for Captain Shon to reactivate during the Dominion crisis of 2409, in the true Enterprise tradition of answering the call to save civilisation as we know it.
Here’s the thing, you’ve taken the three comments that agree with your opinion and decided that because they align with your sentiments, that is how the majority must feel. You’ve even cited the STO subreddit, which I also peruse on a regular basis. Having read those threads with interest back when the Enterprise-F made her debut in canon and seeing no such outcry, I must conclude that you’ve also cherry picked the comments that agreed with you there as well.
It’s not that your comments are unpopular. It’s that you’ve chosen the most verbose self aggrandizing way of sharing them possible. Your comments so far appear to have ranged from fearmongering to attempts at emotionally blackmailing Cryptic and DECA into thinking their bottom line is at stake.
What you call a flood, I call an upturned glass of water. Yes, you are gatekeeping, and by attempting to turn that around onto me, you’ve well and truly shown yourself up.
Except for when you use words like the “community at large” and “universally hated” of course.
This is the difference between you and me. I actually am reading the room. Will there be people who dislike the change. Of course there will, but the notion that upgrading the Sol System will cause a mass exodus is just downright dishonest.
You don't speak for me and I don't share your opinion. I've been watching Trek since it was just TOS and TAS and have been playing STO since 2012. The change looks nice, though woefully un-TOS-like
What I and a lot of the TOS fans I have talked to consider the ESD equivalent was the old "Starfleet HQ" satellite from Franz Joseph Designs, which before Roddenberry and Joseph had their falling out was being promoted as part of canon (just like the FASA Star Trek game was considered "canon ready" until Paramount didn't renew FASA's license). The funny thing is that JJ Abrams "stole" that design more or less (it's smaller and has a sphere for the central hub for the Kelvin version of ESD rather than the much bigger oblate spheroid of the FJD version) and the new STO ESD is kind of a cross between the movie ESD and the FJD/Kelvin one. To me, that actually gives more of a nostalgic feel than the plain movie version that is currently used in STO.
I read the Reddits and FB announcements from this, I must have counted maybe 20 at best that complained....out of near 400 posts. You're right about the poster not being able to read the room.
I'm not going to say anything more about that poster's conduct than you've already said.
Hey Dave, long time no talk always enjoyed the exciting debates with you; despite it's been quite a while!
Hope some of the things they have planned, are exciting and enriching for STO, and will bring the sense of excitement back to Star Trek Online!
I think the 'cat' Thomas has some interesting things planned, have absolutely no clue what this will be though?
Interestingly, the reaction to Probert Station being added to the game has been more positive than I expected. A key talking point I've seen is the station's ability to withstand constant fire from the 300 plus ships making up the Borg Armada for an extended period, and the hope that the anniversary episode will show just how fearsome an opponent it can be, if the Aetherians prove to be the wolves in sheep's clothing they appear to be.
Oh, and on the subject of the new Spacedock facility, Tumerboy has added it to his Artstation account. The last two images show a breakdown of the kit he's used to create it. Hopefully the parts for the original Spacedock can be added in the future, as I'd really like to see the grand old lady take her rightful place at Athan Prime as the Fleet Museum.
Thank You
How ever i wish you would update
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Honestly it wouldn't surprise me at all that many of the old assets not used in-game are still there in the database. I mean back when Foundry was still a thing we had access to the pre-remake asset for the ESD IIRC.
You absolutely do not speak for me either, despite what you claim.
Actually seeing a Federation starbase fight was awesome, it's just a shame the ones in game are no more powerful than an Oberth
I think your remarks about aesthetic continuity are excellent! For me, as a long-time fan, it’s also incomprehensible why such an iconic and perfect design like Carson's ESD should be replaced, rather than being kept as a respectful link to the origins of Star Trek at the core of STO. There are plenty of opportunities for the creators of the new series and films to experiment with their own creations to expand the Star Trek universe. But why then also mess with iconic designs like the look of the Klingons, Ferengi, or the ESD? It’s a lack of respect for their predecessors... No one would mess with David, or with the rear spoiler of a Cadillac, just because they are old - and honestly, Carson's ESD still looks super-modern. Recently, a designer from STO wrote on BlueSky about the new ESD, that STO is not forced to copy everything 1:1:
https://bsky.app/profile/tumerboy.bsky.social/post/3ld343mxbz22d
So if there is going to be a new ESD in STO, I would rather recommend Chung's original design - it contains warmth and love for Star Trek, see:
That means something will have to happen to the Enterprise-G. Something possibly catastrophic.
In all fairness, we keep forgetting that STO is in its own universe. Personally, I call it the "Online-verse" as many things that take place in the game as well as events leading up to the game's official story contradict the new established canon.
I'll admit, I'm an old school fan, and not really big on Kurtzman Trek, myself. But that being said, an upgraded design for ESD makes sense to me. Of course as ships get bigger and more technologically complex, they would need a more advanced facility to be able to handle those new ships. Of course, as another poster pointed out, this new facility could be very well be the new ESD, while the older model could have been repurposed for something else. A civilian spacedock for privately owned ships, perhaps? Makes sense to me. How often have real life militaries repurposed their facilities and equipment for civilian use?
And what's wrong with upgrading the look? The Enterprise gets an overhaul and looks sleeker in ST:TMP and everyone loves it. ESD gets a similar overhaul and people go nuts?