It's true that we knew little of the Breen before - but that's exactly why they shouldn't have done a face reveal unless they were going to make it epic. Sometimes it's better to keep the mystery.
The people working on the newer shows have this tendency to take stuff from older shows and either twist it, or add their own story on top of it like this face reveal thing - seemingly - without trying to give it their absolute best.
In such cases they'd better stick to their own original creations as they tend to handle those things much better.
well, the showrunners for Disco admitted they didn't watch or care about any TOS canon. JJtrek was on tv yesterday and even without WATCHING it I was playing card with my daughter, I was amazed at how they ignored not only TOS canon, but basic science principles as well.
It's true that we knew little of the Breen before - but that's exactly why they shouldn't have done a face reveal unless they were going to make it epic. Sometimes it's better to keep the mystery.
The people working on the newer shows have this tendency to take stuff from older shows and either twist it, or add their own story on top of it like this face reveal thing - seemingly - without trying to give it their absolute best.
In such cases they'd better stick to their own original creations as they tend to handle those things much better.
well, the showrunners for Disco admitted they didn't watch or care about any TOS canon. JJtrek was on tv yesterday and even without WATCHING it I was playing card with my daughter, I was amazed at how they ignored not only TOS canon, but basic science principles as well.
You keep saying this. I still want some evidence of your claim, as they've spent a lot of time revisiting old ideas. (Of course, "TOS canon" is kind of a dodgy idea in the first place - it was never written to have a "canon" back in the day, if you missed an episode you had to hope it would be rerun over the summer or it was gone forever as far as we knew.)
It's true that we knew little of the Breen before - but that's exactly why they shouldn't have done a face reveal unless they were going to make it epic. Sometimes it's better to keep the mystery.
The people working on the newer shows have this tendency to take stuff from older shows and either twist it, or add their own story on top of it like this face reveal thing - seemingly - without trying to give it their absolute best.
In such cases they'd better stick to their own original creations as they tend to handle those things much better.
well, the showrunners for Disco admitted they didn't watch or care about any TOS canon. JJtrek was on tv yesterday and even without WATCHING it I was playing card with my daughter, I was amazed at how they ignored not only TOS canon, but basic science principles as well.
TOS canon had the consistency of a jelly. Different warp speeds throughout the run, non-uniformity in distances etc, etc, etc.
The Kelvin universe did not ignore TOS canon because it was it's own seperate canon and universe the moment the Narada appeared. You did not see the Kelvin Universe prior to that, so you have nothing to back up your claim. The only two odd things were the ultra-spacious space-frame with the odd ski-lift turbolifts and the complete and utter lack of SHIELDS!
Now as for the DSC showrunners saying they didn't watch or care about TOS canon....that's patently false. You know one of the producers is Gene's son right!? You know that Jonathon Frakes directs many episodes of DSC? There's plenty of people with more than enough knowledge of TOS on DSC. So what if they tweaked a few things to modernise the visuals and races, it really is a great show.....besides the spore drive.
Now as for the Breen, as soon as he took off his helmet, it was apparent enough why the wear them. Keeps their bodies more pliable and they can pull/gurn better faces
"You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,666Community Moderator
While its possible Star Trek hasn't been drawing on hard science as much as it used to in TNG, it doesn't change the fact that we have new stories that add to the universe as a whole, and pretty much have done what they can to keep certain elements, like technology, consistent with what has been established.
And before anyone says "but the Spore Drive never existed", the same could be said of the Genesis Device, the Phase Cloak, Transwarp Drive, and all the other experimental tech that has come up over the years. And the reason we never hear about the Spore Drive in "later eras" is because it was classified at the highest level and abandoned as a "failed experiment". Its just that the Spore Drive isn't a one episode/movie plot device. And it does have its limitations as apparently even in the 32nd Century it can't jump outside the galaxy.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
While its possible Star Trek hasn't been drawing on hard science as much as it used to in TNG, it doesn't change the fact that we have new stories that add to the universe as a whole, and pretty much have done what they can to keep certain elements, like technology, consistent with what has been established.
And before anyone says "but the Spore Drive never existed", the same could be said of the Genesis Device, the Phase Cloak, Transwarp Drive, and all the other experimental tech that has come up over the years. And the reason we never hear about the Spore Drive in "later eras" is because it was classified at the highest level and abandoned as a "failed experiment". Its just that the Spore Drive isn't a one episode/movie plot device. And it does have its limitations as apparently even in the 32nd Century it can't jump outside the galaxy.
yeah Discovery gets the blamed for a lot of things even if none of it is based in logic, even things that Disco didn't even invent like detached nacelles, they were planned for ENT but later got recycled by Discovery or the Breen look which apparently came from an old RPG none of these things were Discovery's fault, it feels like people hate it because they want to hate it,
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,666Community Moderator
yeah Discovery gets the blamed for a lot of things even if none of it is based in logic, even things that Disco didn't even invent like detached nacelles, they were planned for ENT but later got recycled by Discovery or the Breen look which apparently came from an old RPG none of these things were Discovery's fault, it feels like people hate it because they want to hate it,
Its par for the course. Pretty much everything new in Star Trek since TNG has had some rage thrown at it. For a long time people HATED Enterprise. For a long time people HATED the Kelvin Timeline. For a long time people are going to HATE Discovery. I think the only trend breakers has been Lower Decks and Strange New Worlds from the current era of Trek. I mean Prodigy might be another liked one from the get go, but I haven't heard much.
And you're right. They hate because they WANT to hate. Its new. Its different. Its not what they personally want. So obviously we must destroy it. And at this point you can basically play Bingo with the reasons because most of them get recycled from one thing to another.
But history has proven that given enough time, something that was hated when it first came out is liked later on. Again citing Enterprise, people hated it because of various reasons back when it first aired. Yet today... do you see any of that hate? Not really no. People actually look favorably on Enterprise.
The BIGGEST reason we see so much hate these days is that the world is a LOT more interconnected via the Internet than it was back in, say 1987 when TNG came out. It is far easier for people to voice their opinions and have it SEEN by many than it was back then. And far easier to get people in an active debate at times too. If that debate is civil or not... that's the question.
People have opinions. Some may not agree with others about it. My only issue is when someone decide their opinion is Word of God Truth and tries to force it on others.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
Star Trek was always more fantasy than fiction, in my opinion.
Even if only because humans don't work the way they do in Trek. We 'solve' scarcity and suddenly almost everyone supposedly behaves like a saint - with the exceptions to that rule being so rare that you tell stories about it? Totally unrealistic.
And that's just one thing (1), as we don't actually get to see how the Federation's civil society really works, with the shows' heavy focus on its military/explorers (whichever one prefers to call Starfleet).
I'm not in a position to judge Trek in how it adheres (or doesn't) to the beta sciences, but it seriously misinterpreted a lot of the stuff from the humanities. Including 'scarcity', which doesn't mean what its creators seem to think it means in economic terms.
I get that Roddenberry wanted to present an optimistic future and he deserves a lot of credit for that, as it's always important to imagine a brighter future. But by totally removing realistic social dynamics, he created fantasy, not scifi. Things like The Expanse may be disliked by many Trek fans for being darker, but they're also infinitely more realistic. As sad as that may be.
All that being said: no, newer Trek isn't disliked simply for being new. That's a strawman, while we're supposed to be dealing with starmen here.
(1) Another would be Picard's pretty lame take 'the acquisition of wealth is no longer the driving force in our lives'. I mean, that's already true for most people today - but I don't expect multi-millionaires to understand that.
All that being said: no, newer Trek isn't disliked simply for being new.
Were you around when TNG was starting up? Man, folks hated that. A spaceship captained by some bald Englishman? A "counselor" sitting on the bridge, like everyone needed their feeling stroked all the time? A Klingon, of all things, in the line of command?? There were articles, there were letters in fanzines, there was all kinds of hate for this new thing instead of just more Kirk being a space cowboy. It just didn't get much attention outside the fanzines and the occasional newspaper article, because we didn't have the internet yet. (It took my dad until the third season to even watch the show, he was so mad about it.)
Then DS9. The gags about "boldly going nowhere". The heavy mockery of the idea that you could have a show calling itself Star Trek that didn't actually trek anywhere. A recurring Ferengi character, while the Ferengi were still derided as Roddenberry's attempt to make us all scared of capitalism.
Then VOY. A girl captain? Who gets helplessly lost on their very first mission? Oh, the jokes about "women drivers" that were flying. Also, the claims that having a Black Vulcan was "throwing out the lore," because we hadn't seen one before. And let's not forget about the lines about Jeri Ryan's catsuit.
When ENT premiered, we pretty much had internet, so it's a lot easier to be aware of the complaints about it, many of which are still floating around today. (Especially the ones about the theme song, although the ones about the nepo baby captain were pretty popular for a while.)
Trekkies can get very conservative and defensive about this franchise. And yes, newer Trek is "disliked simply for being new." Always has been.
All that being said: no, newer Trek isn't disliked simply for being new.
Were you around when TNG was starting up? Man, folks hated that. A spaceship captained by some bald Englishman? A "counselor" sitting on the bridge, like everyone needed their feeling stroked all the time? A Klingon, of all things, in the line of command?? There were articles, there were letters in fanzines, there was all kinds of hate for this new thing instead of just more Kirk being a space cowboy. It just didn't get much attention outside the fanzines and the occasional newspaper article, because we didn't have the internet yet. (It took my dad until the third season to even watch the show, he was so mad about it.)
Then DS9. The gags about "boldly going nowhere". The heavy mockery of the idea that you could have a show calling itself Star Trek that didn't actually trek anywhere. A recurring Ferengi character, while the Ferengi were still derided as Roddenberry's attempt to make us all scared of capitalism.
Then VOY. A girl captain? Who gets helplessly lost on their very first mission? Oh, the jokes about "women drivers" that were flying. Also, the claims that having a Black Vulcan was "throwing out the lore," because we hadn't seen one before. And let's not forget about the lines about Jeri Ryan's catsuit.
When ENT premiered, we pretty much had internet, so it's a lot easier to be aware of the complaints about it, many of which are still floating around today. (Especially the ones about the theme song, although the ones about the nepo baby captain were pretty popular for a while.)
Trekkies can get very conservative and defensive about this franchise. And yes, newer Trek is "disliked simply for being new." Always has been.
No, I wasn't around when TNG first aired.
Not that it matters, the question is irrelevant. Your historical examples of previous dislikings are in no way a rebuttal of what I was saying: that current shows aren't just disliked for being new.
If anything, your examples only further support what I said. People have plenty of reasons to dislike a newer show, whether it's today or in the past.
You (and others) just may not like those reasons. Which is fine, I personally couldn't care less about whether or not someone likes something - that's entirely their business.
But it's rather dishonest to keep pretending that other people don't have any reasons beyond 'newness' for (not) liking what they (don't) like.
And that's why I replied to this - rather off-topic - debate: because people keep being dishonest about other people's reasons for (not) liking something. I don't like dishonesty.
All that being said: no, newer Trek isn't disliked simply for being new.
Were you around when TNG was starting up? Man, folks hated that. A spaceship captained by some bald Englishman? A "counselor" sitting on the bridge, like everyone needed their feeling stroked all the time? A Klingon, of all things, in the line of command?? There were articles, there were letters in fanzines, there was all kinds of hate for this new thing instead of just more Kirk being a space cowboy. It just didn't get much attention outside the fanzines and the occasional newspaper article, because we didn't have the internet yet. (It took my dad until the third season to even watch the show, he was so mad about it.)
Then DS9. The gags about "boldly going nowhere". The heavy mockery of the idea that you could have a show calling itself Star Trek that didn't actually trek anywhere. A recurring Ferengi character, while the Ferengi were still derided as Roddenberry's attempt to make us all scared of capitalism.
Then VOY. A girl captain? Who gets helplessly lost on their very first mission? Oh, the jokes about "women drivers" that were flying. Also, the claims that having a Black Vulcan was "throwing out the lore," because we hadn't seen one before. And let's not forget about the lines about Jeri Ryan's catsuit.
When ENT premiered, we pretty much had internet, so it's a lot easier to be aware of the complaints about it, many of which are still floating around today. (Especially the ones about the theme song, although the ones about the nepo baby captain were pretty popular for a while.)
Trekkies can get very conservative and defensive about this franchise. And yes, newer Trek is "disliked simply for being new." Always has been.
No, I wasn't around when TNG first aired.
Not that it matters, the question is irrelevant. Your historical examples of previous dislikings are in no way a rebuttal of what I was saying: that current shows aren't just disliked for being new.
If anything, your examples only further support what I said. People have plenty of reasons to dislike a newer show, whether it's today or in the past.
You (and others) just may not like those reasons. Which is fine, I personally couldn't care less about whether or not someone likes something - that's entirely their business.
But it's rather dishonest to keep pretending that other people don't have any reasons beyond 'newness' for (not) liking what they (don't) like.
And that's why I replied to this - rather off-topic - debate: because people keep being dishonest about other people's reasons for (not) liking something. I don't like dishonesty.
Burnham, the writing and those awful Klingon Designs are the only things wrong with Discovery, the other Disco Species are really well done, the Andorans look cool, the Saurians look better than their STO versions, the Breen are alright looking (some people just don't like that they're made of lime jello) and the Kelpians are pretty cool for being an entirely new species, only fix is necessary is Burnham, she's written so poorly since she has weird mental issues like talking to herself, Besides it's not like those Klingons will ever show up again considering that SNW fixed their designs (wished they were ridgeless but whatever, the ridges just seem like a canon violation to me, as they didn't even cure themselves by the time Kirk was Captain, unless temporal stuff changed something,)
Caeliar, with playable city ships and even Dyson Sphere's. Captains automatically get free Omega upgrades, the ability to turn enemy Borg drones into allies and they can also reshape entire portions of the map if they want to.
Or, add a powered-down version. Caeliar who were tired of their reclusiveness and wanted to explore the universe, but had to leave most of their magic tricks behind. There are some fan-made sketches of what they would look like and I'd love to play one.
It's true that we knew little of the Breen before - but that's exactly why they shouldn't have done a face reveal unless they were going to make it epic. Sometimes it's better to keep the mystery.
The people working on the newer shows have this tendency to take stuff from older shows and either twist it, or add their own story on top of it like this face reveal thing - seemingly - without trying to give it their absolute best.
In such cases they'd better stick to their own original creations as they tend to handle those things much better.
well, the showrunners for Disco admitted they didn't watch or care about any TOS canon. JJtrek was on tv yesterday and even without WATCHING it I was playing card with my daughter, I was amazed at how they ignored not only TOS canon, but basic science principles as well.
You keep saying this. I still want some evidence of your claim, as they've spent a lot of time revisiting old ideas. (Of course, "TOS canon" is kind of a dodgy idea in the first place - it was never written to have a "canon" back in the day, if you missed an episode you had to hope it would be rerun over the summer or it was gone forever as far as we knew.)
ok, let's start with T'Pring. in Amok Time, Uhuras asks "who is she? she's beautiful" yet she has already met her in the pike era... I doubt someone with the recall to know 37 (really?) languages would not remeber Spock's SO? and so far they have had sex at least twice in 2 seasons... Pretty sure the accepted canon is that Vulcans don't do the naughty except during Ponn Farr. now lets talk about the cabins.. Pikes is the size of a small bar. Kirk's is the size of 3 telephone booths...
It's true that we knew little of the Breen before - but that's exactly why they shouldn't have done a face reveal unless they were going to make it epic. Sometimes it's better to keep the mystery.
The people working on the newer shows have this tendency to take stuff from older shows and either twist it, or add their own story on top of it like this face reveal thing - seemingly - without trying to give it their absolute best.
In such cases they'd better stick to their own original creations as they tend to handle those things much better.
well, the showrunners for Disco admitted they didn't watch or care about any TOS canon. JJtrek was on tv yesterday and even without WATCHING it I was playing card with my daughter, I was amazed at how they ignored not only TOS canon, but basic science principles as well.
You keep saying this. I still want some evidence of your claim, as they've spent a lot of time revisiting old ideas. (Of course, "TOS canon" is kind of a dodgy idea in the first place - it was never written to have a "canon" back in the day, if you missed an episode you had to hope it would be rerun over the summer or it was gone forever as far as we knew.)
ok, let's start with T'Pring. in Amok Time, Uhuras asks "who is she? she's beautiful" yet she has already met her in the pike era... I doubt someone with the recall to know 37 (really?) languages would not remeber Spock's SO? and so far they have had sex at least twice in 2 seasons... Pretty sure the accepted canon is that Vulcans don't do the naughty except during Ponn Farr. now lets talk about the cabins.. Pikes is the size of a small bar. Kirk's is the size of 3 telephone booths...
I feel like it's just shows timeline been altered WW3 happened in the 90s in the Original timeline but it seems like WW3 to be pushed further down the timeline with each new series, Borg never invaded Earth in the Original timeline but after First Contract, Borg were freed on Earth in the 22nd century during ENT, Klingons never had ridges during the 23rd century in the Original timeline, but they do have them in Disco and SNW, the lore inconsistencies in Canon Trek can be summed up as time travel nonsense,
The biggest glaring omission in the game race-wise is the rest of the Dominion races. Some can be done with the 'Alien' tab in other factions, but they should be in the proper one instead. But since I already said quite a bit about that in this thread it is time to ignore the elephant in the room and propose some of the next best.
It would be good to include more stuff in the 'Alien' tab choices, like make the Caitian tail and possibly eyes, (and some cat ears, which probably would have to be made from scratch) available to do a Kelvin Caitian or a Watcher with more catlike features in their humanoid form. Also, the metallic copper skin tones for Ithanites, the thick sandpaper-looking skin of the Sulibans, the "arrow" ridges of Klingo-Romulan hybrids (like Ba'el) would be a great addition to both Klingon and Romulan ridge options, and a whole host of others that could be added over time.
As for other factions, the next best candidate would probably be the First Federation for a number of reasons. First off, there are so many miniature humans/parahumans seen in social areas that the faction would probably prove to be quite popular. If it ever does get made for the game it would be best to remember that Balok was played by a child since he was the right size and they did not have the cgi back then to hobbitize a normal sized adult, but the character himself was a (probably middle-aged) adult described in the final script as a bald, pudgy, soft looking man less than four feet tall with a deep commanding voice.
Second, it would cover the many, many requests for a fighting merchant faction (though several others would fit that role as well, ranging from the Orions to the Dosi of the Dominon). In fact, there could be some Orions in the First Federation since the peak of their civilization overlapped with the First Federation time-wise iirc.
Third, the Mirror campaign showed that First Federation space seems to be an easy place to cross between timelines or whatever (and possibly why they are so reclusive), which opens a lot of possibilities to follow up the current storyline.
As for the timing of WWIII in TOS, it was the eugenics wars that started in the 1990s, WWIII didn't start until "the early 21st century" according to Spock (ENT places the exact year as 2026 iirc offhand).
Also, dialog in TOS alludes to the fact that Vulcans can "do the naughty" whenever they want, but every seven years or so it becomes an imperative where not doing it can be risky to their health, especially with the betrothal bond in place. Furthermore, D.C. Fontana (who was the lore keeper of the show, especially when it came to Vulcans and Romulans) has quoted things from the behind-the-scenes official documentation that explains how it is supposed to work in various interviews and books of behind-the-scenes stuff from the show.
The biggest glaring omission in the game race-wise is the rest of the Dominion races. Some can be done with the 'Alien' tab in other factions, but they should be in the proper one instead. But since I already said quite a bit about that in this thread it is time to ignore the elephant in the room and propose some of the next best.
It would be good to include more stuff in the 'Alien' tab choices, like make the Caitian tail and possibly eyes, (and some cat ears, which probably would have to be made from scratch) available to do a Kelvin Caitian or a Watcher with more catlike features in their humanoid form. Also, the metallic copper skin tones for Ithanites, the thick sandpaper-looking skin of the Sulibans, the "arrow" ridges of Klingo-Romulan hybrids (like Ba'el) would be a great addition to both Klingon and Romulan ridge options, and a whole host of others that could be added over time.
As for other factions, the next best candidate would probably be the First Federation for a number of reasons. First off, there are so many miniature humans/parahumans seen in social areas that the faction would probably prove to be quite popular. If it ever does get made for the game it would be best to remember that Balok was played by a child since he was the right size and they did not have the cgi back then to hobbitize a normal sized adult, but the character himself was a (probably middle-aged) adult described in the final script as a bald, pudgy, soft looking man less than four feet tall with a deep commanding voice.
Second, it would cover the many, many requests for a fighting merchant faction (though several others would fit that role as well, ranging from the Orions to the Dosi of the Dominon). In fact, there could be some Orions in the First Federation since the peak of their civilization overlapped with the First Federation time-wise iirc.
Third, the Mirror campaign showed that First Federation space seems to be an easy place to cross between timelines or whatever (and possibly why they are so reclusive), which opens a lot of possibilities to follow up the current storyline.
As for the timing of WWIII in TOS, it was the eugenics wars that started in the 1990s, WWIII didn't start until "the early 21st century" according to Spock (ENT places the exact year as 2026 iirc offhand).
Also, dialog in TOS alludes to the fact that Vulcans can "do the naughty" whenever they want, but every seven years or so it becomes an imperative where not doing it can be risky to their health, especially with the betrothal bond in place. Furthermore, D.C. Fontana (who was the lore keeper of the show, especially when it came to Vulcans and Romulans) has quoted things from the behind-the-scenes official documentation that explains how it is supposed to work in various interviews and books of behind-the-scenes stuff from the show.
It's true that we knew little of the Breen before - but that's exactly why they shouldn't have done a face reveal unless they were going to make it epic. Sometimes it's better to keep the mystery.
The people working on the newer shows have this tendency to take stuff from older shows and either twist it, or add their own story on top of it like this face reveal thing - seemingly - without trying to give it their absolute best.
In such cases they'd better stick to their own original creations as they tend to handle those things much better.
well, the showrunners for Disco admitted they didn't watch or care about any TOS canon. JJtrek was on tv yesterday and even without WATCHING it I was playing card with my daughter, I was amazed at how they ignored not only TOS canon, but basic science principles as well.
You keep saying this. I still want some evidence of your claim, as they've spent a lot of time revisiting old ideas. (Of course, "TOS canon" is kind of a dodgy idea in the first place - it was never written to have a "canon" back in the day, if you missed an episode you had to hope it would be rerun over the summer or it was gone forever as far as we knew.)
ok, let's start with T'Pring. in Amok Time, Uhuras asks "who is she? she's beautiful" yet she has already met her in the pike era... I doubt someone with the recall to know 37 (really?) languages would not remeber Spock's SO? and so far they have had sex at least twice in 2 seasons... Pretty sure the accepted canon is that Vulcans don't do the naughty except during Ponn Farr. now lets talk about the cabins.. Pikes is the size of a small bar. Kirk's is the size of 3 telephone booths...
Okay, first of all the claim that Vulcans only mate during pon farr is fanon. The canon states that they must mate during pon farr; I can't really see Sarek managing to maintain two long-term marriages to Human women if they only got laid once every seven years.
Secondly, even accepted as the (dubious) "facts" you present, this still doesn't give us the source for your repeated claim that
...the showrunners for Disco admitted they didn't watch or care about any TOS canon.
I ask again - what is your source? Besides your own prejudice against "nuTrek"?
It's true that we knew little of the Breen before - but that's exactly why they shouldn't have done a face reveal unless they were going to make it epic. Sometimes it's better to keep the mystery.
The people working on the newer shows have this tendency to take stuff from older shows and either twist it, or add their own story on top of it like this face reveal thing - seemingly - without trying to give it their absolute best.
In such cases they'd better stick to their own original creations as they tend to handle those things much better.
well, the showrunners for Disco admitted they didn't watch or care about any TOS canon. JJtrek was on tv yesterday and even without WATCHING it I was playing card with my daughter, I was amazed at how they ignored not only TOS canon, but basic science principles as well.
You keep saying this. I still want some evidence of your claim, as they've spent a lot of time revisiting old ideas. (Of course, "TOS canon" is kind of a dodgy idea in the first place - it was never written to have a "canon" back in the day, if you missed an episode you had to hope it would be rerun over the summer or it was gone forever as far as we knew.)
ok, let's start with T'Pring. in Amok Time, Uhuras asks "who is she? she's beautiful" yet she has already met her in the pike era... I doubt someone with the recall to know 37 (really?) languages would not remeber Spock's SO? and so far they have had sex at least twice in 2 seasons... Pretty sure the accepted canon is that Vulcans don't do the naughty except during Ponn Farr. now lets talk about the cabins.. Pikes is the size of a small bar. Kirk's is the size of 3 telephone booths...
Now, I'll have to watch SNW again, but I don't remember Uhura interacting with T'Pring. Now as for doing the do, it is not accepted canon that they only do it once per 7 years. Ponfarr is a 'blood' fever and requires certain hormones be released either via sex or violence, probably oxytocin or something like that. It's pretty much a running joke about Ponfarr, but no-one has ever mentioned Vulcans only mate once per 7 years. You are forgetting that despite their emotional suppression, they are amongst the most passionate of races.
"You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
The biggest glaring omission in the game race-wise is the rest of the Dominion races. Some can be done with the 'Alien' tab in other factions, but they should be in the proper one instead. But since I already said quite a bit about that in this thread it is time to ignore the elephant in the room and propose some of the next best.
It would be good to include more stuff in the 'Alien' tab choices, like make the Caitian tail and possibly eyes, (and some cat ears, which probably would have to be made from scratch) available to do a Kelvin Caitian or a Watcher with more catlike features in their humanoid form. Also, the metallic copper skin tones for Ithanites, the thick sandpaper-looking skin of the Sulibans, the "arrow" ridges of Klingo-Romulan hybrids (like Ba'el) would be a great addition to both Klingon and Romulan ridge options, and a whole host of others that could be added over time.
As for other factions, the next best candidate would probably be the First Federation for a number of reasons. First off, there are so many miniature humans/parahumans seen in social areas that the faction would probably prove to be quite popular. If it ever does get made for the game it would be best to remember that Balok was played by a child since he was the right size and they did not have the cgi back then to hobbitize a normal sized adult, but the character himself was a (probably middle-aged) adult described in the final script as a bald, pudgy, soft looking man less than four feet tall with a deep commanding voice.
Second, it would cover the many, many requests for a fighting merchant faction (though several others would fit that role as well, ranging from the Orions to the Dosi of the Dominon). In fact, there could be some Orions in the First Federation since the peak of their civilization overlapped with the First Federation time-wise iirc.
Third, the Mirror campaign showed that First Federation space seems to be an easy place to cross between timelines or whatever (and possibly why they are so reclusive), which opens a lot of possibilities to follow up the current storyline.
As for the timing of WWIII in TOS, it was the eugenics wars that started in the 1990s, WWIII didn't start until "the early 21st century" according to Spock (ENT places the exact year as 2026 iirc offhand).
Also, dialog in TOS alludes to the fact that Vulcans can "do the naughty" whenever they want, but every seven years or so it becomes an imperative where not doing it can be risky to their health, especially with the betrothal bond in place. Furthermore, D.C. Fontana (who was the lore-keeper of the show, especially when it came to Vulcans and Romulans) has quoted things from the behind-the-scenes official documentation that explains how it is supposed to work in various interviews and books of behind-the-scenes stuff from the show.
What is with the Wiki link? If it is about the timing of WWIII (hard to tell what your point is with just a link and not any comment), then you might be interested in this thread:
The gist of it is that the timing actually drifts, generally but not always later, between TOS and its various spinoff series (and even in TOS itself, one bit of dialog says "early 21st century" while in a later episode it was "mid 21st century" like it has it in that Wiki timeline. With the temporal cold war and other incidents there is really no way to make a single definitive timeline for that period that is valid across all of the various series and movies.
The latest official version (from SNW) is that it all happened mid 21st century with the eugenics wars, the second American revolution, and WWIII all being different names for the same escalating conflict.
It's true that we knew little of the Breen before - but that's exactly why they shouldn't have done a face reveal unless they were going to make it epic. Sometimes it's better to keep the mystery.
The people working on the newer shows have this tendency to take stuff from older shows and either twist it, or add their own story on top of it like this face reveal thing - seemingly - without trying to give it their absolute best.
In such cases they'd better stick to their own original creations as they tend to handle those things much better.
well, the showrunners for Disco admitted they didn't watch or care about any TOS canon. JJtrek was on tv yesterday and even without WATCHING it I was playing card with my daughter, I was amazed at how they ignored not only TOS canon, but basic science principles as well.
You keep saying this. I still want some evidence of your claim, as they've spent a lot of time revisiting old ideas. (Of course, "TOS canon" is kind of a dodgy idea in the first place - it was never written to have a "canon" back in the day, if you missed an episode you had to hope it would be rerun over the summer or it was gone forever as far as we knew.)
ok, let's start with T'Pring. in Amok Time, Uhuras asks "who is she? she's beautiful" yet she has already met her in the pike era... I doubt someone with the recall to know 37 (really?) languages would not remeber Spock's SO? and so far they have had sex at least twice in 2 seasons... Pretty sure the accepted canon is that Vulcans don't do the naughty except during Ponn Farr. now lets talk about the cabins.. Pikes is the size of a small bar. Kirk's is the size of 3 telephone booths...
Okay, first of all the claim that Vulcans only mate during pon farr is fanon. The canon states that they must mate during pon farr; I can't really see Sarek managing to maintain two long-term marriages to Human women if they only got laid once every seven years.
Secondly, even accepted as the (dubious) "facts" you present, this still doesn't give us the source for your repeated claim that
...the showrunners for Disco admitted they didn't watch or care about any TOS canon.
I ask again - what is your source? Besides your own prejudice against "nuTrek"?
I think I know the source of that showrunner comment, and it is valid to some degree though mostly just for first season. When DSC premiered they showed the first episode and some of the junk that usually goes in the "extra features" stuff they pad out blue-ray and DVD discs with, on open-channel TV. They had interviews with a lot of the directly-involved creative people and, oddly enough for a show set in the Cage/TOS era, when asked if they liked TOS and what their favorite Trek was most said they either never saw TOS at all, saw a few episodes and didn't like it, or only saw the movies or some of the various spinoff series, and one or two said their only exposure to Trek was games. Not a single person in that set of interviews said they actually liked TOS.
In interviews later on, Kurtzman said they had initially brought in people who were not "trekkies" in order to get a "fresh perspective" on the show since they were concentrating on "giving viewers a more movie-like experience at home". Personally, I get the feeling they did that because of how Moonves hated TOS so much and apparently wanted to do a Kelvin, or at least a Kelvin-esque movie instead.
The thing is, first season DSC set a lot of precedents like the oversized rooms, the incredibly ungainly (though fast) TNG style warp, the use of sublight ultrashort-range movie/TNG style combat instead of the era-appropriate long-range warpspeed combat, and a lot of others, that later seasons and new spinoffs were stuck with whether they wanted them or not.
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,666Community Moderator
edited May 20
The issue with the "warpspeed combat" is that... you really can't see it. And I think a lot of the combat in TOS was also at impulse speeds, otherwise how would you have the Enterprise surrounded by Romulan ships, or have the Bird of Prey decloak in front of her and fire a plasma torpedo, or have a Klingon Battlecruiser firing disruptors at her?
TOS wasn't always consistant with itself, and did a LOT of things that sounded amazing and hyper advanced compared to the time it first aired. But as time went on, some of the things had to be scaled back a bit, like the warpspeed combat, because of practical issues as the universe was fleshed out more. If Warp Drive was the primary propulsion system for everything, how do you dock at stations? How do you orbit a planet without spinning around it so fast? How do you keep from overshooting your target because by the time you fire phasers you're already lightears PAST them in the time it takes you to push the button?
While combat at warp is still possible, its generally in the form of pursuits as we see in later "eras" and even "earlier eras", not dogfights or ye olde age of sail barrages. Knocking out their warp drive being the equivalent to a modern day Pit Maneuver pretty much.
TNG actually did a lot to work with real science as well. And I guess starting with TMP certain things were established, standardized, and expanded upon. Warp Drive became the primary means of interstellar travel, while Impulse was the primary in system sublight travel, which allows for docking at stations and entering planetary orbit. And yes, even more dynamic combat at more reasonable speeds that the crews can actually react to. Which technically doesn't break anything established in TOS per se. I have always compared space combat in Star Trek to a combination of Submarine Warfare and Knife fighting. Ships trying to outmaneuver each other, kinda like starfighters but still with enough "weight" to feel like these are not small craft. You got everything from the nimble Defiant class to the graceful but less maneuverable Sovereign class. The crews working together to try and outsmart the enemy rather than just outlast them like Star Wars.
But again... it doesn't really contradict TOS IMO, as TOS was still trying to just BUILD the universe that would later be expanded upon in movies and spinoff shows. And lets face it, a Galaxy class starship, or even a Constitution class, just can't flip a 180 with Warp Drive because of velocity. Its not a G-Diffuser system that allows for insane maneuverability, nor is it the engine configuration of an SA-23 Starfury from Babylon 5 that allows for taking advantage of full Neutonian Phsyics to coast and reorient at will. However Star Trek has been pretty consistent with what has been established in terms of how technology works. Except for how long it takes to warp from Qo'noS to Earth in Star Trek Into Darkness. Unless they managed to break the Transwarp Barrier thanks to reverse engineering tech from the Narada or something. I don't know.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
Except for how long it takes to warp from Qo'noS to Earth in Star Trek Into Darkness.
Yeah, I just write that one off as Into Dorkness being a badly-written movie. I mean, neither Qo'noS nor Earth even had orbital defenses! And the Enterprise fell from lunar orbit to Earth without power so quickly that they didn't even have time to repair any of her systems, while out here in reality it took a rocket three days to make the same journey with strong initial acceleration.
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,666Community Moderator
And I think in Enterprise they said even at about Warp 5 it would be days from Earth to Qo'noS right?
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
I think y'all are drifting way off the topic at this point. Let's bring it back home.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator and Resident She-Wolf
Community Moderators are Unpaid Volunteers and NOT Employees of Gearbox/Cryptic
Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
Android race would be cool, seeing as Picard season 1 introduced an entire planet of them,
Nixed LONG ago by CBS. Best we got are Android BOffs for lifers. Besides they function a lot like Alien in customization, so other than a couple facial parts and a couple traits there's no real difference.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
The biggest glaring omission in the game race-wise is the rest of the Dominion races. Some can be done with the 'Alien' tab in other factions, but they should be in the proper one instead. But since I already said quite a bit about that in this thread it is time to ignore the elephant in the room and propose some of the next best.
Way back it was argued (by Geko IIRC) that the Dominion story line was that of a Jem'Hadar story line and that no other species would have made sense. Having played through the Jem'Hadar tutorial I disagree that it is written so specifically. With what's there, any client species brought up in the Dominion would have done because the Jem'Hadar story is told through REX and not the player. We're an observer, not a primary participant and this weakness of the modern Cryptic style torpedoed the claim on release day that for the given story we couldn't be any other species. Cryptic may have had something more personal in mind, but it's not what was actually delivered.
Moreover, I would have preferred seeing the "reformed" vanguard faction under Odo as not just repeating the same patterns as the wider Dominion but with a nicer tone (minimum expectation). But as with Agents of Yesterday, Geko/the team saw more value in playing to existing iconography simply and literally rather than allowing players freedom to tell their story within it (RPG fashion). Which I think was the wrong call. STO's most unique feature to the entire industry is its wide open customization and crew building systems. If you're going to undermine those for effect, you need a much better reason for it than being a slight foil to another character's journey.
Eg. I'd love to see Alien added to both TOS and JEM minifactions. Aliens are in the potential works for TOS FED via the wider opening of FED species options there, but if that doesn't pan out then a dedicated species add for alien is still needed. And alien for Jem'Hadar regardless. It's the most sorely needed faction update at this point.
PS. second for adding tails to alien gen. Sorely missing area of alien-making that no good reason has ever been proposed against it (which hasn't been undermined by something else the team/IP did to render a stated principle moot). Separate topic but still. It needs a little more volume to get across the finish line.
also the weird forehead race from Star Trek Resurgence like Jara Rydek, they could even work like Jem'Hadar do with Ketracel White,
The Jem were genetically engineered by the Founders to have that ketracel dependence. Why would anyone else have developed it naturally?
Neurochemical addiction? Insurrection listed White as a narcotic manufactured by the S'ona, which doesn't quite fit with it being solely a control substance the Dominon used for its super soldiers. 1) The Dominion didn't have any trouble producing/distributing the stuff in normal operations (so why buy it from another supplier and worry about them maintaining quality control standards and security? Maybe as a fallback but the vital nature of white and peak xenophobic character of the Founders would strongly suggest risk minimization here) and 2) it's reductive to call it a narcotic when applied to the Jem'Hadar. It's their primary nutrient source too.
Ie. I've always taken Insurrection to mean that Ketrecel White found its way to becoming a more widely used substance (for the narcotic effect only when applied to other species) and the S'ona were players in that market (connotation them being drug dealers rather than wartime supply agents). Cue other species using it illicitly. It's an area left open by canon.
Alternatively: another species by chance could be unable to produce same enzyme as the Jem'Hadar can't, and would normally get it through food in their native ecology. Cue Ketrecel White being a handy form of potent vitamin delivery (the literal dynamic Trek amplified for a life/death control substance. White = how food works, but with more DRAMA.) as diets become more processed or alien foods become more popular. Given narcotic effects, it's not a good idea. But not every species makes good life choices.
Post edited by duncanidaho11 on
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,666Community Moderator
The problem with adding any other races to the Dominion faction is the fact that the Dominion is FAR more rigid than the Federation or even KDF. In canon, the ONLY species that was in the military was the Jem'Hadar. Vorta were administrators, and occasionally Intel Officers, but never on the front lines like the Jem'Hadar. Dosi and Karemma were never seen in Dominion fleets or ground forces. And why would you allow more free willed species access to your ships and weapons when you have a perfectly good, genetically engineered species to handle all military matters that is ALSO absolutely loyal to you as well as you having the means to ENSURE their loyalty via Ketracel White?
The Founders are control freaks. They didn't want solids in a position to threaten them. Having Karemma and Dosi in the Dominion Military was a potential threat to the Founders.
Now the Dominion under Odo may evolve to be more inclusive of Dominion member races, but that would take a long time to develop. Not instantly after the Hur'q.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
Comments
well, the showrunners for Disco admitted they didn't watch or care about any TOS canon. JJtrek was on tv yesterday and even without WATCHING it I was playing card with my daughter, I was amazed at how they ignored not only TOS canon, but basic science principles as well.
TOS canon had the consistency of a jelly. Different warp speeds throughout the run, non-uniformity in distances etc, etc, etc.
The Kelvin universe did not ignore TOS canon because it was it's own seperate canon and universe the moment the Narada appeared. You did not see the Kelvin Universe prior to that, so you have nothing to back up your claim. The only two odd things were the ultra-spacious space-frame with the odd ski-lift turbolifts and the complete and utter lack of SHIELDS!
Now as for the DSC showrunners saying they didn't watch or care about TOS canon....that's patently false. You know one of the producers is Gene's son right!? You know that Jonathon Frakes directs many episodes of DSC? There's plenty of people with more than enough knowledge of TOS on DSC. So what if they tweaked a few things to modernise the visuals and races, it really is a great show.....besides the spore drive.
Now as for the Breen, as soon as he took off his helmet, it was apparent enough why the wear them. Keeps their bodies more pliable and they can pull/gurn better faces
And before anyone says "but the Spore Drive never existed", the same could be said of the Genesis Device, the Phase Cloak, Transwarp Drive, and all the other experimental tech that has come up over the years. And the reason we never hear about the Spore Drive in "later eras" is because it was classified at the highest level and abandoned as a "failed experiment". Its just that the Spore Drive isn't a one episode/movie plot device. And it does have its limitations as apparently even in the 32nd Century it can't jump outside the galaxy.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
yeah Discovery gets the blamed for a lot of things even if none of it is based in logic, even things that Disco didn't even invent like detached nacelles, they were planned for ENT but later got recycled by Discovery or the Breen look which apparently came from an old RPG none of these things were Discovery's fault, it feels like people hate it because they want to hate it,
Its par for the course. Pretty much everything new in Star Trek since TNG has had some rage thrown at it. For a long time people HATED Enterprise. For a long time people HATED the Kelvin Timeline. For a long time people are going to HATE Discovery. I think the only trend breakers has been Lower Decks and Strange New Worlds from the current era of Trek. I mean Prodigy might be another liked one from the get go, but I haven't heard much.
And you're right. They hate because they WANT to hate. Its new. Its different. Its not what they personally want. So obviously we must destroy it. And at this point you can basically play Bingo with the reasons because most of them get recycled from one thing to another.
But history has proven that given enough time, something that was hated when it first came out is liked later on. Again citing Enterprise, people hated it because of various reasons back when it first aired. Yet today... do you see any of that hate? Not really no. People actually look favorably on Enterprise.
The BIGGEST reason we see so much hate these days is that the world is a LOT more interconnected via the Internet than it was back in, say 1987 when TNG came out. It is far easier for people to voice their opinions and have it SEEN by many than it was back then. And far easier to get people in an active debate at times too. If that debate is civil or not... that's the question.
People have opinions. Some may not agree with others about it. My only issue is when someone decide their opinion is Word of God Truth and tries to force it on others.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
Even if only because humans don't work the way they do in Trek. We 'solve' scarcity and suddenly almost everyone supposedly behaves like a saint - with the exceptions to that rule being so rare that you tell stories about it? Totally unrealistic.
And that's just one thing (1), as we don't actually get to see how the Federation's civil society really works, with the shows' heavy focus on its military/explorers (whichever one prefers to call Starfleet).
I'm not in a position to judge Trek in how it adheres (or doesn't) to the beta sciences, but it seriously misinterpreted a lot of the stuff from the humanities. Including 'scarcity', which doesn't mean what its creators seem to think it means in economic terms.
I get that Roddenberry wanted to present an optimistic future and he deserves a lot of credit for that, as it's always important to imagine a brighter future. But by totally removing realistic social dynamics, he created fantasy, not scifi. Things like The Expanse may be disliked by many Trek fans for being darker, but they're also infinitely more realistic. As sad as that may be.
All that being said: no, newer Trek isn't disliked simply for being new. That's a strawman, while we're supposed to be dealing with starmen here.
(1) Another would be Picard's pretty lame take 'the acquisition of wealth is no longer the driving force in our lives'. I mean, that's already true for most people today - but I don't expect multi-millionaires to understand that.
Then DS9. The gags about "boldly going nowhere". The heavy mockery of the idea that you could have a show calling itself Star Trek that didn't actually trek anywhere. A recurring Ferengi character, while the Ferengi were still derided as Roddenberry's attempt to make us all scared of capitalism.
Then VOY. A girl captain? Who gets helplessly lost on their very first mission? Oh, the jokes about "women drivers" that were flying. Also, the claims that having a Black Vulcan was "throwing out the lore," because we hadn't seen one before. And let's not forget about the lines about Jeri Ryan's catsuit.
When ENT premiered, we pretty much had internet, so it's a lot easier to be aware of the complaints about it, many of which are still floating around today. (Especially the ones about the theme song, although the ones about the nepo baby captain were pretty popular for a while.)
Trekkies can get very conservative and defensive about this franchise. And yes, newer Trek is "disliked simply for being new." Always has been.
No, I wasn't around when TNG first aired.
Not that it matters, the question is irrelevant. Your historical examples of previous dislikings are in no way a rebuttal of what I was saying: that current shows aren't just disliked for being new.
If anything, your examples only further support what I said. People have plenty of reasons to dislike a newer show, whether it's today or in the past.
You (and others) just may not like those reasons. Which is fine, I personally couldn't care less about whether or not someone likes something - that's entirely their business.
But it's rather dishonest to keep pretending that other people don't have any reasons beyond 'newness' for (not) liking what they (don't) like.
And that's why I replied to this - rather off-topic - debate: because people keep being dishonest about other people's reasons for (not) liking something. I don't like dishonesty.
Burnham, the writing and those awful Klingon Designs are the only things wrong with Discovery, the other Disco Species are really well done, the Andorans look cool, the Saurians look better than their STO versions, the Breen are alright looking (some people just don't like that they're made of lime jello) and the Kelpians are pretty cool for being an entirely new species, only fix is necessary is Burnham, she's written so poorly since she has weird mental issues like talking to herself, Besides it's not like those Klingons will ever show up again considering that SNW fixed their designs (wished they were ridgeless but whatever, the ridges just seem like a canon violation to me, as they didn't even cure themselves by the time Kirk was Captain, unless temporal stuff changed something,)
Or, add a powered-down version. Caeliar who were tired of their reclusiveness and wanted to explore the universe, but had to leave most of their magic tricks behind. There are some fan-made sketches of what they would look like and I'd love to play one.
ok, let's start with T'Pring. in Amok Time, Uhuras asks "who is she? she's beautiful" yet she has already met her in the pike era... I doubt someone with the recall to know 37 (really?) languages would not remeber Spock's SO? and so far they have had sex at least twice in 2 seasons... Pretty sure the accepted canon is that Vulcans don't do the naughty except during Ponn Farr. now lets talk about the cabins.. Pikes is the size of a small bar. Kirk's is the size of 3 telephone booths...
I feel like it's just shows timeline been altered WW3 happened in the 90s in the Original timeline but it seems like WW3 to be pushed further down the timeline with each new series, Borg never invaded Earth in the Original timeline but after First Contract, Borg were freed on Earth in the 22nd century during ENT, Klingons never had ridges during the 23rd century in the Original timeline, but they do have them in Disco and SNW, the lore inconsistencies in Canon Trek can be summed up as time travel nonsense,
It would be good to include more stuff in the 'Alien' tab choices, like make the Caitian tail and possibly eyes, (and some cat ears, which probably would have to be made from scratch) available to do a Kelvin Caitian or a Watcher with more catlike features in their humanoid form. Also, the metallic copper skin tones for Ithanites, the thick sandpaper-looking skin of the Sulibans, the "arrow" ridges of Klingo-Romulan hybrids (like Ba'el) would be a great addition to both Klingon and Romulan ridge options, and a whole host of others that could be added over time.
As for other factions, the next best candidate would probably be the First Federation for a number of reasons. First off, there are so many miniature humans/parahumans seen in social areas that the faction would probably prove to be quite popular. If it ever does get made for the game it would be best to remember that Balok was played by a child since he was the right size and they did not have the cgi back then to hobbitize a normal sized adult, but the character himself was a (probably middle-aged) adult described in the final script as a bald, pudgy, soft looking man less than four feet tall with a deep commanding voice.
Second, it would cover the many, many requests for a fighting merchant faction (though several others would fit that role as well, ranging from the Orions to the Dosi of the Dominon). In fact, there could be some Orions in the First Federation since the peak of their civilization overlapped with the First Federation time-wise iirc.
Third, the Mirror campaign showed that First Federation space seems to be an easy place to cross between timelines or whatever (and possibly why they are so reclusive), which opens a lot of possibilities to follow up the current storyline.
As for the timing of WWIII in TOS, it was the eugenics wars that started in the 1990s, WWIII didn't start until "the early 21st century" according to Spock (ENT places the exact year as 2026 iirc offhand).
Also, dialog in TOS alludes to the fact that Vulcans can "do the naughty" whenever they want, but every seven years or so it becomes an imperative where not doing it can be risky to their health, especially with the betrothal bond in place. Furthermore, D.C. Fontana (who was the lore keeper of the show, especially when it came to Vulcans and Romulans) has quoted things from the behind-the-scenes official documentation that explains how it is supposed to work in various interviews and books of behind-the-scenes stuff from the show.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_Star_Trek
Secondly, even accepted as the (dubious) "facts" you present, this still doesn't give us the source for your repeated claim that I ask again - what is your source? Besides your own prejudice against "nuTrek"?
Now, I'll have to watch SNW again, but I don't remember Uhura interacting with T'Pring. Now as for doing the do, it is not accepted canon that they only do it once per 7 years. Ponfarr is a 'blood' fever and requires certain hormones be released either via sex or violence, probably oxytocin or something like that. It's pretty much a running joke about Ponfarr, but no-one has ever mentioned Vulcans only mate once per 7 years. You are forgetting that despite their emotional suppression, they are amongst the most passionate of races.
What is with the Wiki link? If it is about the timing of WWIII (hard to tell what your point is with just a link and not any comment), then you might be interested in this thread:
https://arcgames.com/en/forums/startrekonline#/discussion/1273584/eugenics-wars-timeline-completely-wrong
where the subject is discussed at length.
The gist of it is that the timing actually drifts, generally but not always later, between TOS and its various spinoff series (and even in TOS itself, one bit of dialog says "early 21st century" while in a later episode it was "mid 21st century" like it has it in that Wiki timeline. With the temporal cold war and other incidents there is really no way to make a single definitive timeline for that period that is valid across all of the various series and movies.
The latest official version (from SNW) is that it all happened mid 21st century with the eugenics wars, the second American revolution, and WWIII all being different names for the same escalating conflict.
I think I know the source of that showrunner comment, and it is valid to some degree though mostly just for first season. When DSC premiered they showed the first episode and some of the junk that usually goes in the "extra features" stuff they pad out blue-ray and DVD discs with, on open-channel TV. They had interviews with a lot of the directly-involved creative people and, oddly enough for a show set in the Cage/TOS era, when asked if they liked TOS and what their favorite Trek was most said they either never saw TOS at all, saw a few episodes and didn't like it, or only saw the movies or some of the various spinoff series, and one or two said their only exposure to Trek was games. Not a single person in that set of interviews said they actually liked TOS.
In interviews later on, Kurtzman said they had initially brought in people who were not "trekkies" in order to get a "fresh perspective" on the show since they were concentrating on "giving viewers a more movie-like experience at home". Personally, I get the feeling they did that because of how Moonves hated TOS so much and apparently wanted to do a Kelvin, or at least a Kelvin-esque movie instead.
The thing is, first season DSC set a lot of precedents like the oversized rooms, the incredibly ungainly (though fast) TNG style warp, the use of sublight ultrashort-range movie/TNG style combat instead of the era-appropriate long-range warpspeed combat, and a lot of others, that later seasons and new spinoffs were stuck with whether they wanted them or not.
TOS wasn't always consistant with itself, and did a LOT of things that sounded amazing and hyper advanced compared to the time it first aired. But as time went on, some of the things had to be scaled back a bit, like the warpspeed combat, because of practical issues as the universe was fleshed out more. If Warp Drive was the primary propulsion system for everything, how do you dock at stations? How do you orbit a planet without spinning around it so fast? How do you keep from overshooting your target because by the time you fire phasers you're already lightears PAST them in the time it takes you to push the button?
While combat at warp is still possible, its generally in the form of pursuits as we see in later "eras" and even "earlier eras", not dogfights or ye olde age of sail barrages. Knocking out their warp drive being the equivalent to a modern day Pit Maneuver pretty much.
TNG actually did a lot to work with real science as well. And I guess starting with TMP certain things were established, standardized, and expanded upon. Warp Drive became the primary means of interstellar travel, while Impulse was the primary in system sublight travel, which allows for docking at stations and entering planetary orbit. And yes, even more dynamic combat at more reasonable speeds that the crews can actually react to. Which technically doesn't break anything established in TOS per se. I have always compared space combat in Star Trek to a combination of Submarine Warfare and Knife fighting. Ships trying to outmaneuver each other, kinda like starfighters but still with enough "weight" to feel like these are not small craft. You got everything from the nimble Defiant class to the graceful but less maneuverable Sovereign class. The crews working together to try and outsmart the enemy rather than just outlast them like Star Wars.
But again... it doesn't really contradict TOS IMO, as TOS was still trying to just BUILD the universe that would later be expanded upon in movies and spinoff shows. And lets face it, a Galaxy class starship, or even a Constitution class, just can't flip a 180 with Warp Drive because of velocity. Its not a G-Diffuser system that allows for insane maneuverability, nor is it the engine configuration of an SA-23 Starfury from Babylon 5 that allows for taking advantage of full Neutonian Phsyics to coast and reorient at will. However Star Trek has been pretty consistent with what has been established in terms of how technology works. Except for how long it takes to warp from Qo'noS to Earth in Star Trek Into Darkness. Unless they managed to break the Transwarp Barrier thanks to reverse engineering tech from the Narada or something. I don't know.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
Moderation Problems/Issues? Please contact the Community Manager
Terms of Service / Community Rules and Policies / FCT
Facebook / Twitter / Twitch
Nixed LONG ago by CBS. Best we got are Android BOffs for lifers. Besides they function a lot like Alien in customization, so other than a couple facial parts and a couple traits there's no real difference.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
Way back it was argued (by Geko IIRC) that the Dominion story line was that of a Jem'Hadar story line and that no other species would have made sense. Having played through the Jem'Hadar tutorial I disagree that it is written so specifically. With what's there, any client species brought up in the Dominion would have done because the Jem'Hadar story is told through REX and not the player. We're an observer, not a primary participant and this weakness of the modern Cryptic style torpedoed the claim on release day that for the given story we couldn't be any other species. Cryptic may have had something more personal in mind, but it's not what was actually delivered.
Moreover, I would have preferred seeing the "reformed" vanguard faction under Odo as not just repeating the same patterns as the wider Dominion but with a nicer tone (minimum expectation). But as with Agents of Yesterday, Geko/the team saw more value in playing to existing iconography simply and literally rather than allowing players freedom to tell their story within it (RPG fashion). Which I think was the wrong call. STO's most unique feature to the entire industry is its wide open customization and crew building systems. If you're going to undermine those for effect, you need a much better reason for it than being a slight foil to another character's journey.
Eg. I'd love to see Alien added to both TOS and JEM minifactions. Aliens are in the potential works for TOS FED via the wider opening of FED species options there, but if that doesn't pan out then a dedicated species add for alien is still needed. And alien for Jem'Hadar regardless. It's the most sorely needed faction update at this point.
PS. second for adding tails to alien gen. Sorely missing area of alien-making that no good reason has ever been proposed against it (which hasn't been undermined by something else the team/IP did to render a stated principle moot). Separate topic but still. It needs a little more volume to get across the finish line.
Neurochemical addiction? Insurrection listed White as a narcotic manufactured by the S'ona, which doesn't quite fit with it being solely a control substance the Dominon used for its super soldiers. 1) The Dominion didn't have any trouble producing/distributing the stuff in normal operations (so why buy it from another supplier and worry about them maintaining quality control standards and security? Maybe as a fallback but the vital nature of white and peak xenophobic character of the Founders would strongly suggest risk minimization here) and 2) it's reductive to call it a narcotic when applied to the Jem'Hadar. It's their primary nutrient source too.
Ie. I've always taken Insurrection to mean that Ketrecel White found its way to becoming a more widely used substance (for the narcotic effect only when applied to other species) and the S'ona were players in that market (connotation them being drug dealers rather than wartime supply agents). Cue other species using it illicitly. It's an area left open by canon.
Alternatively: another species by chance could be unable to produce same enzyme as the Jem'Hadar can't, and would normally get it through food in their native ecology. Cue Ketrecel White being a handy form of potent vitamin delivery (the literal dynamic Trek amplified for a life/death control substance. White = how food works, but with more DRAMA.) as diets become more processed or alien foods become more popular. Given narcotic effects, it's not a good idea. But not every species makes good life choices.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
The Founders are control freaks. They didn't want solids in a position to threaten them. Having Karemma and Dosi in the Dominion Military was a potential threat to the Founders.
Now the Dominion under Odo may evolve to be more inclusive of Dominion member races, but that would take a long time to develop. Not instantly after the Hur'q.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode