STO used to have a /votekick command. it was why the reqest reinforcments button existed to pull new people in...or request bridge officers if you were too far along to call an actual person into the TFO... i was only ever kicked ONCE from an infected ground before season 6. and remember getting at least 2 votekick prompts in similar borg TFOs at the time.
Once the votekick was initiated, a version of the need/greed diaog box would pop up out of the side of the corner saying "Character@name has initiatad a votekick against Character@name yes/no"
I don't know if its still there' and i doubt i could assemble a team just to test if the functionality still exists. but i do remember it being used before the rep system was launched
I believe it was disabled after a certain dentistry loving fleet found a way to exploit the system in order to grief players.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,670Community Moderator
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
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I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
Atm i think the Elite TFOs have the same timer as the Advanced TFOs but it needs to be put up because it's harder to do, and that is why i find when i tried the Elite TFOs now it's an option the entire team failed the objectives no matter how hard we tried. It also depends how strong your team is and if your team can't handle Elite then you're going to fail the objectives. But it needs a longer timer to be able to complete them so no matter how strong or weak everyone will be able to complete the objectives on time.
A lot Elite TFOs however are just ending prematurely atm anyway on their own it needs some fixing, so everyone seems to mostly have gone back to Advanced for the time being, it's okay for Bug Hunt and Into The Hive though just as long as everyone is strong enough.
Atm i think the Elite TFOs have the same timer as the Advanced TFOs but it needs to be put up because it's harder to do, and that is why i find when i tried the Elite TFOs now it's an option the entire team failed the objectives no matter how hard we tried. It also depends how strong your team is and if your team can't handle Elite then you're going to fail the objectives. But it needs a longer timer to be able to complete them so no matter how strong or weak everyone will be able to complete the objectives on time.
A lot Elite TFOs however are just ending prematurely atm anyway on their own it needs some fixing, so everyone seems to mostly have gone back to Advanced for the time being, it's okay for Bug Hunt and Into The Hive though just as long as everyone is strong enough.
Just NO. Elite difficulty is suppose to be a challenge if your team doesn't cut it in the time well it needs improvement be it damage, be it knowing what to do. Kithomer fails alot for 2 reasons. Not enough DPS and not knowing how to actually play as a team. If 4 people all go to 4 different transformers that is almost bund to fail and unless they have hell of DPS. The timers are fine and I don't see any need to to make them longer to accommodate people who want to play nice and easy. We have other difficulty modes for that.
C-Store Inc. is still looking for active members on the fed side. If you don't have a fleet feel free to contact me in game @stegi.
Atm i think the Elite TFOs have the same timer as the Advanced TFOs but it needs to be put up because it's harder to do, and that is why i find when i tried the Elite TFOs now it's an option the entire team failed the objectives no matter how hard we tried. It also depends how strong your team is and if your team can't handle Elite then you're going to fail the objectives. But it needs a longer timer to be able to complete them so no matter how strong or weak everyone will be able to complete the objectives on time.
A lot Elite TFOs however are just ending prematurely atm anyway on their own it needs some fixing, so everyone seems to mostly have gone back to Advanced for the time being, it's okay for Bug Hunt and Into The Hive though just as long as everyone is strong enough.
then continue to play on 'Advanced' as that seems the difficulty level you're comfortable with and can handle. Elite is SUPPOSED to be harder, and require you to better hone your ship 'build' and also play the game mechanics needed to 'win' better.
It's a challenge some players want, and if you can't match what's needed to succeed that's not a design or developer issue as it's labeled "Elite" for a reason.
And yes, the better rewards ARE because it's much more difficult to succeed in.
(And BTW - I DON'T generally play Elite because I don't find that level of challenge enjoyable myself, but I understand that there are many players who do, and they deserve content that challenges them the way they like too.)
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Atm i think the Elite TFOs have the same timer as the Advanced TFOs but it needs to be put up because it's harder to do, and that is why i find when i tried the Elite TFOs now it's an option the entire team failed the objectives no matter how hard we tried. It also depends how strong your team is and if your team can't handle Elite then you're going to fail the objectives. But it needs a longer timer to be able to complete them so no matter how strong or weak everyone will be able to complete the objectives on time.
A lot Elite TFOs however are just ending prematurely atm anyway on their own it needs some fixing, so everyone seems to mostly have gone back to Advanced for the time being, it's okay for Bug Hunt and Into The Hive though just as long as everyone is strong enough.
Elites are supposed to be harder and are not meant for everyone. Point blank far too many elites end early because one or more of the people in there are not ready for the content they're joining. As much as people in here and elsewhere don't want to hear it, alot of people overestimate their own ability and join elites before they're ready and get stomped as a result. Meaning they need to improve their skills and builds before they step foot into elite. If people are constantly failing then something is wrong as that is not normal. If people want to clear elites then they need to have elite level skills and builds to compete. If they don't they have no business or right to be in that elite as they're just guaranteeing a fail at the expense of the rest of the team.
Like I said I know alot of folks don't want to hear that, but some folks need to just stick to advanced and call it a day. Far too many want elite level rewards but only want to put in advanced level work to get there. As much as folks don't want to hear it, sometimes they need to "git good" if they're having issues. Plenty of folks don't mind helping people improve their builds and skills, myself among them. Simultaneously folks need to be willing to accept that sometimes what they're doing just isn't working and they need to alter their plans if they want to clear higher tier content.
"Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations
+1 for the "git gud" suggestion. Some maps can be done with 2-3 capable players, but there are some, which need the whole team to do their work, else they fail. One could say, that this is a diametral problem to the "elite players are ruining random adv. tfos", but don't be fooled. While it's true, that a player far ABOVE the difficulty treshold can make others people match a "less fun" experience, the players far BELOW the difficulty treshold RUIN elite tfos. And by ruin, I mean FAIL the tfo, wasting the time of the whole team and robbing them of booty.
Like I said I know alot of folks don't want to hear that, but some folks need to just stick to advanced and call it a day. Far too many want elite level rewards but only want to put in advanced level work to get there. As much as folks don't want to hear it, sometimes they need to "git good" if they're having issues. Plenty of folks don't mind helping people improve their builds and skills, myself among them. Simultaneously folks need to be willing to accept that sometimes what they're doing just isn't working and they need to alter their plans if they want to clear higher tier content.
I think there should be a bit more of a warning or pop up for Elites, as they are often best left to min/maxers who have eked out every last bit of fire power.
For casual players like myself, I'm quite happy to to stick to advanced. There are some Elites I can handle fine, but I would not be adverse to some 'enforced' calibration to check if a person is ready to join elites. Getting kicked out for not doing enough damage does not help anybody and simply wastes the time of all involved.
I think there should be a bit more of a warning or pop up for Elites, as they are often best left to min/maxers who have eked out every last bit of fire power.
For casual players like myself, I'm quite happy to to stick to advanced. There are some Elites I can handle fine, but I would not be adverse to some 'enforced' calibration to check if a person is ready to join elites. Getting kicked out for not doing enough damage does not help anybody and simply wastes the time of all involved.
First I'm going to ask you to define what you mean by "pop up" and also by "enforced calibration". What exactly would you want this pop up to be and how exactly would it discourage people from joining before they're ready? Because if it's just a pop up they can click out of willy nilly then it's going to be ignored and be useless.
For enforced calibration, if you look earlier in the thread that's the entire point of why I suggested the dungeon journal, proving grounds, and equipment checks is to get people ready so the elites don't fail to start with. I'm glad you mentioned not wanting to waste the time of other people because again that's part of the point. If someone who is clearly not ready for an elite rolls into one and the TFO fails as a result, they've wasted the time of 4 other people in there. If there were no fail conditions on elites then it wouldn't be an issue and folks could come and go as they please, however there is a different standard for elite because of those fail conditions. If people are constantly running up against the fail conditions of elite TFOs, that is the game itself saying the effort they've put forth was not good enough and they need to improve and/or change tactics and try again later. I want folks to be able to play elite content if that's their jam, but not at the expense of the other 4 people on the team. If dude has 4 friends that want to carry him in a private run, they should absolutely be allowed to do so. However if they want to join public elites then there need to be certain standards they meet first. Like the difference between a MTG house tournament and officially sanctioned events. Whatever folks do in their house games is their own business, but if they want to join public sanctioned events there are certain standards they must abide by.
I know folks don't like the idea of being denied entry to elite content before they're ready or being told they're not yet good skilled enough or built up enough to do it, but sometimes they need to hear it. Far too many see my calls for a dungeon journal, proving grounds and equipment checks as a personal attack against them and it's not. It's making sure folks are ready for the elite content so everyone has the highest chance of success. By no means am I saying people need to have mk xv golded out everything and doing infinite damage. However if a TFO requires everyone do 50k DPS, then they need to demonstrate their ability to do 50k DPS and an appropriate amount of equipment to do it. Contrary to popular belief you do not need to have mk xv golded everything to succeed in elites, but you do need to have your ducks in a row.
The point of the dungeon journal, proving grounds and equipment checks are to give people a resource they can look into for info on foes they will encounter along with telling them where to get certain bits of gear in a searchable format. In addition it makes sure they have sufficient stats on paper to survive and deal damage, with the proving grounds verifying they have the required output in practice. There is a major focus on DPS because alot of TFOs require a specific amount of it for their objectives. As part of helping folks get ready this game could also use an inspect feature like you have in most modern MMOs letting you see the gear, skills and such of the person you're trying to help. There's alot of stuff that could be done to make sure people are ready and make it easier to get them ready if they would do it.
"Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations
Now that a pop-up has been mentioned, how about a a pop-up that informs the player that there is a bug that will jump them to a higher difficulty level than the one they've selected when chossing top play a random TFO?
Now that a pop-up has been mentioned, how about a a pop-up that informs the player that there is a bug that will jump them to a higher difficulty level than the one they've selected when chossing top play a random TFO?
Or perhaps a clear notification in the UI itself.
Still haven't seen this happen while playing randoms. Not even once. I'm not doubting your word though. Do you still seem to be experiencing this? Have you considered posting a video? I think it might have been related to a bit of lag some players experienced earlier in the year but this is only a theory of mine.
Like I said if folks can get me something concrete to take to the devs i'll happily do it. I turned the last bit of data someone sent over but I've not heard back on it yet.
"Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations
I've been in Elite TFOs where we're all strong but still couldn't do it on time. You also need to watch out for when they randomly make TFOs harder so when that happens you should switch to Advanced because Elite will definitely be impossible while Advanced is harder.
Now that a pop-up has been mentioned, how about a a pop-up that informs the player that there is a bug that will jump them to a higher difficulty level than the one they've selected when chossing top play a random TFO?
Or perhaps a clear notification in the UI itself.
Still haven't seen this happen while playing randoms. Not even once. I'm not doubting your word though. Do you still seem to be experiencing this? Have you considered posting a video? I think it might have been related to a bit of lag some players experienced earlier in the year but this is only a theory of mine.
I also provided a video to darkbladejk who has been quite helpful. This was provided via DM because It was captured via one of my STO live streams and, for reasons I'll keep to myself, I don't want my other works to overlap with these forums. As such the video does not exist in the above thread, but there are a few screenshots to examine.
I still think it may be a good idea for an in-game pop-up. Not just for this issue but for others. It would be a good way for us customers to know that a legitimate concern had been observed and is being looked into.
It may not be cost effective to do so, however.
EDITED TO ADD:
It has been some time since I've witnessed this due to my decreased activity in RTFO's over the last month or so.
I've been in Elite TFOs where we're all strong but still couldn't do it on time. You also need to watch out for when they randomly make TFOs harder so when that happens you should switch to Advanced because Elite will definitely be impossible while Advanced is harder.
Understand I mean this with all due respect, but did you parse the run to see what kinds of numbers everyone was pulling? Because there's a difference between feeling strong and actually being strong. There's been plenty of runs where I thought I did poorly only to find out I did great or it was a record run for me, and then other runs I thought I did well only to find out they were poor. Unless you actually parsed the data to know what everyone was doing, you don't know if everyone was doing well or not, and judging by the fact you said it failed, someone or perhaps multiple someones weren't pulling their weight. That's not a dig but simply being objective.
As again if folks can get me some data or something demonstrating the difficulty jump, especially if it can be reproduced consistently, by all means post it and I will fire it up the chain. I believe folks if they say there's something going on, but I need something to show the team so they can verify the issue and know where to look to fix it.
"Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations
Comments
I believe it was disabled after a certain dentistry loving fleet found a way to exploit the system in order to grief players.
Yeeeaaaa... they did a lot back in the day. Every game has that one guild/fleet.
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Yeah they are responsible for the minimum damage level needed to self destruct being introduced too
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True
A lot Elite TFOs however are just ending prematurely atm anyway on their own it needs some fixing, so everyone seems to mostly have gone back to Advanced for the time being, it's okay for Bug Hunt and Into The Hive though just as long as everyone is strong enough.
Just NO. Elite difficulty is suppose to be a challenge if your team doesn't cut it in the time well it needs improvement be it damage, be it knowing what to do. Kithomer fails alot for 2 reasons. Not enough DPS and not knowing how to actually play as a team. If 4 people all go to 4 different transformers that is almost bund to fail and unless they have hell of DPS. The timers are fine and I don't see any need to to make them longer to accommodate people who want to play nice and easy. We have other difficulty modes for that.
then continue to play on 'Advanced' as that seems the difficulty level you're comfortable with and can handle. Elite is SUPPOSED to be harder, and require you to better hone your ship 'build' and also play the game mechanics needed to 'win' better.
It's a challenge some players want, and if you can't match what's needed to succeed that's not a design or developer issue as it's labeled "Elite" for a reason.
And yes, the better rewards ARE because it's much more difficult to succeed in.
(And BTW - I DON'T generally play Elite because I don't find that level of challenge enjoyable myself, but I understand that there are many players who do, and they deserve content that challenges them the way they like too.)
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Elites are supposed to be harder and are not meant for everyone. Point blank far too many elites end early because one or more of the people in there are not ready for the content they're joining. As much as people in here and elsewhere don't want to hear it, alot of people overestimate their own ability and join elites before they're ready and get stomped as a result. Meaning they need to improve their skills and builds before they step foot into elite. If people are constantly failing then something is wrong as that is not normal. If people want to clear elites then they need to have elite level skills and builds to compete. If they don't they have no business or right to be in that elite as they're just guaranteeing a fail at the expense of the rest of the team.
Like I said I know alot of folks don't want to hear that, but some folks need to just stick to advanced and call it a day. Far too many want elite level rewards but only want to put in advanced level work to get there. As much as folks don't want to hear it, sometimes they need to "git good" if they're having issues. Plenty of folks don't mind helping people improve their builds and skills, myself among them. Simultaneously folks need to be willing to accept that sometimes what they're doing just isn't working and they need to alter their plans if they want to clear higher tier content.
Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
I think there should be a bit more of a warning or pop up for Elites, as they are often best left to min/maxers who have eked out every last bit of fire power.
For casual players like myself, I'm quite happy to to stick to advanced. There are some Elites I can handle fine, but I would not be adverse to some 'enforced' calibration to check if a person is ready to join elites. Getting kicked out for not doing enough damage does not help anybody and simply wastes the time of all involved.
My first time suceeding with a group at Korfez.. I felt like I had done everything that could be done in the game... lol.
For enforced calibration, if you look earlier in the thread that's the entire point of why I suggested the dungeon journal, proving grounds, and equipment checks is to get people ready so the elites don't fail to start with. I'm glad you mentioned not wanting to waste the time of other people because again that's part of the point. If someone who is clearly not ready for an elite rolls into one and the TFO fails as a result, they've wasted the time of 4 other people in there. If there were no fail conditions on elites then it wouldn't be an issue and folks could come and go as they please, however there is a different standard for elite because of those fail conditions. If people are constantly running up against the fail conditions of elite TFOs, that is the game itself saying the effort they've put forth was not good enough and they need to improve and/or change tactics and try again later. I want folks to be able to play elite content if that's their jam, but not at the expense of the other 4 people on the team. If dude has 4 friends that want to carry him in a private run, they should absolutely be allowed to do so. However if they want to join public elites then there need to be certain standards they meet first. Like the difference between a MTG house tournament and officially sanctioned events. Whatever folks do in their house games is their own business, but if they want to join public sanctioned events there are certain standards they must abide by.
I know folks don't like the idea of being denied entry to elite content before they're ready or being told they're not yet good skilled enough or built up enough to do it, but sometimes they need to hear it. Far too many see my calls for a dungeon journal, proving grounds and equipment checks as a personal attack against them and it's not. It's making sure folks are ready for the elite content so everyone has the highest chance of success. By no means am I saying people need to have mk xv golded out everything and doing infinite damage. However if a TFO requires everyone do 50k DPS, then they need to demonstrate their ability to do 50k DPS and an appropriate amount of equipment to do it. Contrary to popular belief you do not need to have mk xv golded everything to succeed in elites, but you do need to have your ducks in a row.
The point of the dungeon journal, proving grounds and equipment checks are to give people a resource they can look into for info on foes they will encounter along with telling them where to get certain bits of gear in a searchable format. In addition it makes sure they have sufficient stats on paper to survive and deal damage, with the proving grounds verifying they have the required output in practice. There is a major focus on DPS because alot of TFOs require a specific amount of it for their objectives. As part of helping folks get ready this game could also use an inspect feature like you have in most modern MMOs letting you see the gear, skills and such of the person you're trying to help. There's alot of stuff that could be done to make sure people are ready and make it easier to get them ready if they would do it.
Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
Or perhaps a clear notification in the UI itself.
Still haven't seen this happen while playing randoms. Not even once. I'm not doubting your word though. Do you still seem to be experiencing this? Have you considered posting a video? I think it might have been related to a bit of lag some players experienced earlier in the year but this is only a theory of mine.
Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
I have made a bug report with all the details I could gather on the subject at the link if you would like a better idea of what's happening.
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/startrekonline#/discussion/1272951/tfo-difficulty-level-selection-error
I also provided a video to darkbladejk who has been quite helpful. This was provided via DM because It was captured via one of my STO live streams and, for reasons I'll keep to myself, I don't want my other works to overlap with these forums. As such the video does not exist in the above thread, but there are a few screenshots to examine.
I still think it may be a good idea for an in-game pop-up. Not just for this issue but for others. It would be a good way for us customers to know that a legitimate concern had been observed and is being looked into.
It may not be cost effective to do so, however.
EDITED TO ADD:
It has been some time since I've witnessed this due to my decreased activity in RTFO's over the last month or so.
Understand I mean this with all due respect, but did you parse the run to see what kinds of numbers everyone was pulling? Because there's a difference between feeling strong and actually being strong. There's been plenty of runs where I thought I did poorly only to find out I did great or it was a record run for me, and then other runs I thought I did well only to find out they were poor. Unless you actually parsed the data to know what everyone was doing, you don't know if everyone was doing well or not, and judging by the fact you said it failed, someone or perhaps multiple someones weren't pulling their weight. That's not a dig but simply being objective.
As again if folks can get me some data or something demonstrating the difficulty jump, especially if it can be reproduced consistently, by all means post it and I will fire it up the chain. I believe folks if they say there's something going on, but I need something to show the team so they can verify the issue and know where to look to fix it.
Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator