If you look at the ship layout the formation is lopsided. In the previous anniversay events the ships have appeared in a roughly symmetrical formation. Meaning that I STRONGLY suspect they have been planning on "listening to the fans" and adding in another ship (maybe the parliment). They could also add value to the pack by upping the number of T6 coupons. The bundle might well end up being pretty decent value-wise. That being said I'll take a pass, but I'm frankly kinda relieved, as those bundles are a chunk of money that I don't really want to spend on a game.
Well I DEFINITELY wasn't expecting them to include the Adapted Destroyer in there. o_o Why that, of all Borg related ships, which also still has restricted gear, instead of one of the other Wolf 359 ships that got left out? (Like the Melbourne class, or maybe the Freedom class.) Or at least something closer to being related to Wolf 359 Borg, like the Liberated Borg Command Dreadnought? (Even if that feels like a little bit of a stretch still.)
It still feels... wrong to leave out some of the Wolf 359 ship types, unless there's going to be a further surprise. Even if I'm really glad/relieved the Springfield class got included.
Post edited by novapolaris#2925 on
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,576Community Moderator
Frankly I wouldn't want them to put the Sutherland class in like they did the Lafayette, just to update it with Melbourne parts. That feels more like a free update to the Nebula line to add the Melbourne parts. By now a lot of people already have the Sutherland or the Monitor or both.
As for the Adapted Destroyer's inclusion, my theory is that its because its an older ship. Looking back at the previous two Anniversary bundles, they also included lockbox ships that were older. The first one had the Mirror Engle. The Second had the Mirror Crossfield and the Styx. While they could have given us the Acheron as it was a more modern Mirror ship, they chose the older Styx.
For this bundle... I'm guessing it was also because the Adapted Destroyer is an older ship. The Liberated Borg Juggernaut may have been considered, but it is newer, and the Assimilator is way too new for it. A bit of an oddball choice to be sure, but it IS technically Borg related.
Technically it is Borg related, but even in the picture it is by far the odd one out.
I am at this time uncertain if i will go bundle or individual ship with coupons.
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People are rightfully concerned about the Mandukar being here for no reason and I'm here, wondering what a Constellation, an already-existing T3 DILITHIUM ship is doing here, adding to the price.
Is it the T3 ship, or is it just that you can use the shown remastered Constellation skin on the T6 Cheyanne Class ship in the Bundle?
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Frankly I wouldn't want them to put the Sutherland class in like they did the Lafayette, just to update it with Melbourne parts. That feels more like a free update to the Nebula line to add the Melbourne parts. By now a lot of people already have the Sutherland or the Monitor or both.
As for the Adapted Destroyer's inclusion, my theory is that its because its an older ship. Looking back at the previous two Anniversary bundles, they also included lockbox ships that were older. The first one had the Mirror Engle. The Second had the Mirror Crossfield and the Styx. While they could have given us the Acheron as it was a more modern Mirror ship, they chose the older Styx.
For this bundle... I'm guessing it was also because the Adapted Destroyer is an older ship. The Liberated Borg Juggernaut may have been considered, but it is newer, and the Assimilator is way too new for it. A bit of an oddball choice to be sure, but it IS technically Borg related.
Ah, that's interesting if it's a focus on older ones. I hope they're updating their stats and gear.
Also I wasn't saying a reskin of the Monitor, pardon. I was wondering if they'd make a Nebula variant with a separation pet, with how the back module of the Melbourne looks. But I was afraid to say it in case I was treading on a leak accidentally or something.
Ah, that's interesting if it's a focus on older ones. I hope they're updating their stats and gear.
Also I wasn't saying a reskin of the Monitor, pardon. I was wondering if they'd make a Nebula variant with a separation pet, with how the back module of the Melbourne looks. But I was afraid to say it in case I was treading on a leak accidentally or something.
I was kinda saying that I don't think we need another actual full fledged Nebula variant just to get the Melbourne parts. I may have been right about the theme of the Bundle, but that was purely my own speculation. I don't know what's coming any more than the average forumite. I personally feel like the Melbourne parts would make sense as a basic update to the Nebula line released for free to everyone who owns a Nebula variant.
I was kinda saying that I don't think we need another actual full fledged Nebula variant just to get the Melbourne parts. I may have been right about the theme of the Bundle, but that was purely my own speculation. I don't know what's coming any more than the average forumite. I personally feel like the Melbourne parts would make sense as a basic update to the Nebula line released for free to everyone who owns a Nebula variant.
AH, okay. Yeah, I get that.
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,576Community Moderator
Extras I predict: At least enough ship slots to be able to run the new ships and some lockbox keys. Same pattern as previous years. Hoping for a costume as well.
If it turns out to be the Picard s3 Uniform Leather Jackets...
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I would imagine that it's a very stressful time at Cryptic ATM and it might be quite hard to find the motivation to actually do a stream (wishing you folks the best too).
That and they might be using it as an opportunity to upgrade the 14th Bundle as they did last year
im not super worried, the bundle doesn't super interest me, however I do like the design of the 25th century Challenger class, might grab that seperate
I'll be honest. The premium ship makes or brakes the bundle for me. Neither the Tal Shiar Destroyer nor the Parliament interest me, nor the other "exclusive content" aka master keys, tech upgrades, uniforms, pets etc. So unless every last one of the Wolf 359 ships has amazing stats and traits, I'm gonna pick up the ones I like with coupons.
Well I DEFINITELY wasn't expecting them to include the Adapted Destroyer in there. o_o Why that, of all Borg related ships, which also still has restricted gear, instead of one of the other Wolf 359 ships that got left out?
Maybe they got tired of people complaining that there were no upgrades to any of the Romulan ships. Other hand, this kind of shows the wisdom of not bothering with those upgrades - they found one that was thematic to the bundle, and everyone wants to complain.
Well I DEFINITELY wasn't expecting them to include the Adapted Destroyer in there. o_o Why that, of all Borg related ships, which also still has restricted gear, instead of one of the other Wolf 359 ships that got left out?
Maybe they got tired of people complaining that there were no upgrades to any of the Romulan ships. Other hand, this kind of shows the wisdom of not bothering with those upgrades - they found one that was thematic to the bundle, and everyone wants to complain.
Don't think the Tal Destroyer is a Romulan ship anyone was worried about upgrades for. They also aren't updating it just dumping it... its one of the infinity ships that would have zero value in terms of selling mudd packs. Its not because its romulan its because who ever designed that ship back in 2017 did a terrible job in 2017. It doesn't look better in 2024. It is one of a handful of premium ships that doesn't belong in that catagory. If it was a free leveling ship people still wouldn't fly it.
I dig the Atlantis, but this bundle is very underwhelming to me. No insult to the ship designs. Those are lovely. They turned some turds into nice ships.
Well I DEFINITELY wasn't expecting them to include the Adapted Destroyer in there. o_o Why that, of all Borg related ships, which also still has restricted gear, instead of one of the other Wolf 359 ships that got left out?
Maybe they got tired of people complaining that there were no upgrades to any of the Romulan ships. Other hand, this kind of shows the wisdom of not bothering with those upgrades - they found one that was thematic to the bundle, and everyone wants to complain.
Don't think the Tal Destroyer is a Romulan ship anyone was worried about upgrades for. They also aren't updating it just dumping it... its one of the infinity ships that would have zero value in terms of selling mudd packs. Its not because its romulan its because who ever designed that ship back in 2017 did a terrible job in 2017. It doesn't look better in 2024. It is one of a handful of premium ships that doesn't belong in that catagory. If it was a free leveling ship people still wouldn't fly it.
The reason its included is that it's a Borg-tech ship. The other candidate bricks aren't available. Cryptic's other in-theme choice was the Parliament and that's notoriously suboptimal and something streamers were fearing prior to announcement (ie. providing direct negative feedback on, which events have lined up with). Plus it breaks out of hyper fixation on FED and gives one of the other factions representation. Cryptic could have opted for the adapted battlecruiser instead, but I think a destroyer's a better fit for the bundle than another cruiser.
Ie. it's a neutral choice, not pants-wetting exciting to the meta but not pressing any extant buttons for antipathy either. That's also judging ships on their entertainment value purely by what they offer in new traits/consoles/layouts to meta-breaking and not the challenge of extracting performance on a given platform. Don't presume people play the game in the same way as you, and see value through your eyes. Build crafting is a much more diverse field than just trying to break DPS leaderboards. See. IDIC. It applies everywhere.
As such, if I got the full bundle I'd absolutely fly it. I've always liked the theme but never found myself so drawn to the T6 destroyer I'd drop significant cash to get it. Good thing to gift in a bundle.
I'd avoid declarative statements that just-so-happen to support your argument as when someone (ex. Cryptic) comes calling for proof you're going to be empty handed. And they'll have done market research to see how folks actually engage with this ship and evaluate whether an art update is in fact needed (Thomas spent time with the Lafayette giving it a slight sprucing up for its run here. That time could have been spent on the Adapted Destroyer if it was in fact desperately wanting.) The point to take away here is that projected demand for the ship is *higher* than you anticipated, per Cryptic's actions saying it does have quantifiable value. So you can either stick what you believed a priori or factor new info into your thinking, even if it doesn't match an old model for how things are. See. learning more about the world and the things that happen in it.
Is this this a bundle to shout from the rooftops that we must buy? No, the whole bundle will have niche appeal. But that's a problem for the whales and need to get as much as they possibly can from their exclusive purchases (a point of self-interest and bargaining with the company). For the rest of the population we have a softer sale here with focus on content that's generally accessible in the c-store. Ie. a good thing for balanced monetization. The bundle represents a good deal vs. all individual content in itemization (roughly ~30,000 zen for ~13,000 zen) and thus succeeds on point one of bundle discounting. It's just not something you have to stress yourself over with FOMO, which is a step UP in terms of psychological dynamics and something Cryptic absolutely could have twisted our arms over (ex. with the new borg assimilation costume parts being part of this bundle vs. recent episode, or going back to Legendary anniversary bundles, or throwing a "meta" loot box ship into this).
A general point for folks here: take a step back and think what you really want out of monetization. Is it to be in a constant cycle of strong-armed mega-buys or should we be asking for a more relaxed/symbiotic approach where you feel you can skip things that you aren't all-in on from the get-go? The 14th bundle seems to be striking a happy middle ground. Want all the ships? Good way to go for them, and you get a few bonus trinkets as thanks. Otherwise pick as you will.
I'll be getting two straight away, Atlantis and leaning Chekov. I wasn't in love with the blocky T6 nova design but...it's weird enough that I'm drawn to it. Fresh experiences and designs vs. recycling the same cadre of hero ships and adjacent. I'm finding this set very endearing.
Post edited by duncanidaho11 on
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I'd avoid declarative statements that just-so-happen to support your argument as when someone (ex. Cryptic) comes calling for proof you're going to be empty handed. And they'll have done market research to see how folks actually engage with this ship and evaluate whether an art update is in fact needed (Thomas spent time with the Lafayette giving it a slight sprucing up for its run here. That time could have been spent on the Adapted Destroyer if it was in fact desperately wanting.) The point to take away here is that projected demand for the ship is *higher* than you anticipated, per Cryptic's actions saying it does have quantifiable value. So you can either stick what you believed a priori or factor that into your thinking. See. learning more about the world and the things that happen in it.
Well after looking at the bundle blog post. I think I can say in a strongly declarative way. This will be the worst selling anniversary bundle yet.
In terms of stats imo there is only one potentially usable ship in the 4. The carrier trait looks like it would be a great nanny trait and might sell... until you realize everyone is already at global cool down so it adds nothing required by anyone. The pets might be decent nanny debuff pets however. We'll see. The KDF add on pets are actually stupid. Frigate pets with self destruct ? Why.
Upside for Cryptic. A couple of these ships might help remove some of the T6 coupons in circulation from other bundles.
Well after looking at the bundle blog post. I think I can say in a strongly declarative way. This will be the worst selling anniversary bundle yet.
Cryptic may not care if the secondary market of individual buys kicks up to cover the cost, as these are all new dual spec FED ships with better than average (at least) layouts and fresh looks from usual FED design without the stink of a FOMO heavy package lording above it (undermining appeal via what *could* have been for more money). Less emphasis on a must-have bundle exclusive allows the spotlight to shine on core content more cleanly. Traits/consoles aren't meta-trembling, but so what? That's not the only standard to judge the entertainment value of a ship and its desirability. See. other branches of build crafting beyond aggressively holding to the highest total numbers (kinda one dimensional).
Ie. for max sales its best to consider ecosystems rather than aggressively mining sales on ONE thing via the most obnoxious FOMO possible. Even sales "lost" here may not have a long-term impact if those are taken up by later content (competing for the same finite dollars. An anniversary bundle blowing out sales targets doesn't necessary net Cryptic more money if that creates rain shadows of engagement with subsequent content). And for buffing general engagement, not being a jerk when it comes to bundling is a good thing the company can do to predispose more money being sent its way via less antagonism.
You can also say something but that doesn't make it substantiated beyond your reckoning. Again for best feedback I'd caution against this approach, as you can either only tell Cryptic something they already know (they made this bundle and can easily reason through relative appeal from the get-go) or they can easily disprove. You get TRIBBLE all for the effort and thus bias your feedback in empty directions. Ie. complaining about a set bundle vs. what Cryptic can do with the next big drops (Mudd, Legendary) to capture your money.
Post edited by duncanidaho11 on
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The new ships look AWESOME! I'm really looking forward to getting those! Great job to the people who worked on those ships (looks and stats/gear)!
However, I'm surprised the Constellation is just the T3 version. And dear GOD I hope they update(d) the restricted gear on the Mandukar to be usable on any ship, at the least. I want so much to use stuff like the shrapnel torps. And no costume for the Melbourne? Does that mean they plan to release it separately at a later date? o_o
The new ships look AWESOME! I'm really looking forward to getting those! Great job to the people who worked on those ships (looks and stats/gear)!
However, I'm surprised the Constellation is just the T3 version. And dear GOD I hope they update(d) the restricted gear on the Mandukar to be usable on any ship, at the least. I want so much to use stuff like the shrapnel torps. And no costume for the Melbourne? Does that mean they plan to release it separately at a later date? o_o
It's cross compatible with the Cheyenne IIRC. Ie. you can use it with the new T6 version of that ship. The benefit of the constellation in the bundle is that you don't have to buy the dilithium store version or the Picard bundle to use the costume here.
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Comments
It still feels... wrong to leave out some of the Wolf 359 ship types, unless there's going to be a further surprise. Even if I'm really glad/relieved the Springfield class got included.
As for the Adapted Destroyer's inclusion, my theory is that its because its an older ship. Looking back at the previous two Anniversary bundles, they also included lockbox ships that were older. The first one had the Mirror Engle. The Second had the Mirror Crossfield and the Styx. While they could have given us the Acheron as it was a more modern Mirror ship, they chose the older Styx.
For this bundle... I'm guessing it was also because the Adapted Destroyer is an older ship. The Liberated Borg Juggernaut may have been considered, but it is newer, and the Assimilator is way too new for it. A bit of an oddball choice to be sure, but it IS technically Borg related.
I am at this time uncertain if i will go bundle or individual ship with coupons.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Ah, that's interesting if it's a focus on older ones. I hope they're updating their stats and gear.
Also I wasn't saying a reskin of the Monitor, pardon. I was wondering if they'd make a Nebula variant with a separation pet, with how the back module of the Melbourne looks. But I was afraid to say it in case I was treading on a leak accidentally or something.
NNN000OOOooo!!!
My guess is... its the T3 ship, which unlocks the visuals for the entire line.
I was kinda saying that I don't think we need another actual full fledged Nebula variant just to get the Melbourne parts. I may have been right about the theme of the Bundle, but that was purely my own speculation. I don't know what's coming any more than the average forumite. I personally feel like the Melbourne parts would make sense as a basic update to the Nebula line released for free to everyone who owns a Nebula variant.
AH, okay. Yeah, I get that.
If it turns out to be the Picard s3 Uniform Leather Jackets...
Chill...
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That and they might be using it as an opportunity to upgrade the 14th Bundle as they did last year
Still, I'm looking forward to the stats blog!
Don't think the Tal Destroyer is a Romulan ship anyone was worried about upgrades for. They also aren't updating it just dumping it... its one of the infinity ships that would have zero value in terms of selling mudd packs. Its not because its romulan its because who ever designed that ship back in 2017 did a terrible job in 2017. It doesn't look better in 2024. It is one of a handful of premium ships that doesn't belong in that catagory. If it was a free leveling ship people still wouldn't fly it.
Certainly...some choices made there.
Hard pass on the Bundle for me - I'll get the Chekov and maybe the Princeton, but that's all.
The reason its included is that it's a Borg-tech ship. The other candidate bricks aren't available. Cryptic's other in-theme choice was the Parliament and that's notoriously suboptimal and something streamers were fearing prior to announcement (ie. providing direct negative feedback on, which events have lined up with). Plus it breaks out of hyper fixation on FED and gives one of the other factions representation. Cryptic could have opted for the adapted battlecruiser instead, but I think a destroyer's a better fit for the bundle than another cruiser.
Ie. it's a neutral choice, not pants-wetting exciting to the meta but not pressing any extant buttons for antipathy either. That's also judging ships on their entertainment value purely by what they offer in new traits/consoles/layouts to meta-breaking and not the challenge of extracting performance on a given platform. Don't presume people play the game in the same way as you, and see value through your eyes. Build crafting is a much more diverse field than just trying to break DPS leaderboards. See. IDIC. It applies everywhere.
As such, if I got the full bundle I'd absolutely fly it. I've always liked the theme but never found myself so drawn to the T6 destroyer I'd drop significant cash to get it. Good thing to gift in a bundle.
I'd avoid declarative statements that just-so-happen to support your argument as when someone (ex. Cryptic) comes calling for proof you're going to be empty handed. And they'll have done market research to see how folks actually engage with this ship and evaluate whether an art update is in fact needed (Thomas spent time with the Lafayette giving it a slight sprucing up for its run here. That time could have been spent on the Adapted Destroyer if it was in fact desperately wanting.) The point to take away here is that projected demand for the ship is *higher* than you anticipated, per Cryptic's actions saying it does have quantifiable value. So you can either stick what you believed a priori or factor new info into your thinking, even if it doesn't match an old model for how things are. See. learning more about the world and the things that happen in it.
Is this this a bundle to shout from the rooftops that we must buy? No, the whole bundle will have niche appeal. But that's a problem for the whales and need to get as much as they possibly can from their exclusive purchases (a point of self-interest and bargaining with the company). For the rest of the population we have a softer sale here with focus on content that's generally accessible in the c-store. Ie. a good thing for balanced monetization. The bundle represents a good deal vs. all individual content in itemization (roughly ~30,000 zen for ~13,000 zen) and thus succeeds on point one of bundle discounting. It's just not something you have to stress yourself over with FOMO, which is a step UP in terms of psychological dynamics and something Cryptic absolutely could have twisted our arms over (ex. with the new borg assimilation costume parts being part of this bundle vs. recent episode, or going back to Legendary anniversary bundles, or throwing a "meta" loot box ship into this).
A general point for folks here: take a step back and think what you really want out of monetization. Is it to be in a constant cycle of strong-armed mega-buys or should we be asking for a more relaxed/symbiotic approach where you feel you can skip things that you aren't all-in on from the get-go? The 14th bundle seems to be striking a happy middle ground. Want all the ships? Good way to go for them, and you get a few bonus trinkets as thanks. Otherwise pick as you will.
I'll be getting two straight away, Atlantis and leaning Chekov. I wasn't in love with the blocky T6 nova design but...it's weird enough that I'm drawn to it. Fresh experiences and designs vs. recycling the same cadre of hero ships and adjacent. I'm finding this set very endearing.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Well after looking at the bundle blog post. I think I can say in a strongly declarative way. This will be the worst selling anniversary bundle yet.
In terms of stats imo there is only one potentially usable ship in the 4. The carrier trait looks like it would be a great nanny trait and might sell... until you realize everyone is already at global cool down so it adds nothing required by anyone. The pets might be decent nanny debuff pets however. We'll see. The KDF add on pets are actually stupid. Frigate pets with self destruct ? Why.
Upside for Cryptic. A couple of these ships might help remove some of the T6 coupons in circulation from other bundles.
Cryptic may not care if the secondary market of individual buys kicks up to cover the cost, as these are all new dual spec FED ships with better than average (at least) layouts and fresh looks from usual FED design without the stink of a FOMO heavy package lording above it (undermining appeal via what *could* have been for more money). Less emphasis on a must-have bundle exclusive allows the spotlight to shine on core content more cleanly. Traits/consoles aren't meta-trembling, but so what? That's not the only standard to judge the entertainment value of a ship and its desirability. See. other branches of build crafting beyond aggressively holding to the highest total numbers (kinda one dimensional).
Ie. for max sales its best to consider ecosystems rather than aggressively mining sales on ONE thing via the most obnoxious FOMO possible. Even sales "lost" here may not have a long-term impact if those are taken up by later content (competing for the same finite dollars. An anniversary bundle blowing out sales targets doesn't necessary net Cryptic more money if that creates rain shadows of engagement with subsequent content). And for buffing general engagement, not being a jerk when it comes to bundling is a good thing the company can do to predispose more money being sent its way via less antagonism.
You can also say something but that doesn't make it substantiated beyond your reckoning. Again for best feedback I'd caution against this approach, as you can either only tell Cryptic something they already know (they made this bundle and can easily reason through relative appeal from the get-go) or they can easily disprove. You get TRIBBLE all for the effort and thus bias your feedback in empty directions. Ie. complaining about a set bundle vs. what Cryptic can do with the next big drops (Mudd, Legendary) to capture your money.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
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However, I'm surprised the Constellation is just the T3 version. And dear GOD I hope they update(d) the restricted gear on the Mandukar to be usable on any ship, at the least. I want so much to use stuff like the shrapnel torps. And no costume for the Melbourne? Does that mean they plan to release it separately at a later date? o_o
It's cross compatible with the Cheyenne IIRC. Ie. you can use it with the new T6 version of that ship. The benefit of the constellation in the bundle is that you don't have to buy the dilithium store version or the Picard bundle to use the costume here.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!