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Still horrible server performance...
phalanx01
Member Posts: 360 Arc User
I've tried doing a mission just now and had a disconnect on EVERY loading screen during the mission. I tried without the EU proxy and with, both times the same result, loads of DCs on map loads.
Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
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Horrible server performance for everyone on the world - US, EU and Asia
Rubberbanding like hell, stuttering, misfires, its literally unplayable.
https://www.youtube.com/clip/UgkxKFqJ5o6XUr6_r1lfcHB5K5wdRCIbbEwO
https://www.youtube.com/clip/UgkxPEJ4shUWqMWXPFybxt6FO6k1O8fJYjQi
https://www.youtube.com/clip/UgkxmxGCSi49SgfvfxzRgRHiKuoC1LFyxRb1
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/-9OYNtuOdmE
GET a professional IT technician who analyses the network and stop putting quick and small patches on this huge fracture! Contact and complain with your hoster (amazon)!
Act! And STOP watching!
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/startrekonline#/discussion/1162154/pc-network-and-other-technical-issues-read-this-first-before-posting
Back in 2015 or so, lag symptoms like this were also caused by issues along certain network paths (regional ISP's were fighting over who has to pay for bandwidth). So identifying whether that's happening is critical for Cryptic's troubleshooting. If all their internal indicators show green, yet folks are still complaining, then the only conclusion they can make is that it's out of their hands (which it may be.) But if you can show that the issue is occurring at Cryptic's own servers (via actual diagnostic tests, see. tracert/pathping), then they have something verified to work on.
This will also identify major local issues that may be contributing (eg. timeouts or high latency at your closest network points).
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
*Facepalm*
You do realize that a negative test result is STILL an informative test result? You run these test to remove things from consideration as well as to ID a cause if something falls out. Eg. user, regional, and Cryptic ISP issues.
It's also not "a problem with the servers" (globally) if not everyone is experiencing the lag. Video documentation only adds nuance that may be lacking with written bug reports for affected cases. It doesn't get at the extent of the issue and its associated cause. For those with major lag, patterns in how the connection is routed per tracert/pathping could be very informative (even if you're getting clean results per the test). Cryptic can't pull that info from youtube. Not everyone's test result is guaranteed to be clean either, so not performing the test because someone else didn't see an obvious problem (at a given point in time) removes users from the reporting population who could provide more insight in to the problem. For example:
Don't presume. Do the rigorous due diligence. Provide full documentation for best odds of a speedy fix. Give them as much quantitative fodder as possible.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
When you have been getting the same test result day in day out repeated by multiple people it’s not conductive to tell us to throw out the useful examples (Video). By saying they do little to nothing to help diagnose the problem which is false as they are the only way to demonstrate the problem at the moment. Then tell us to run the same old negative test for the 100th time that has been negative for pretty much a week now.
You are wrong on saying video only provides a nuance. Video especially from the live streamers has been a major and useful data source. A far better data source I would say then written bug reports this time around.
Video is essential and has been very useful. For example, video and steaming video is how we realised the lag was worldwide and appearing simultaneously for everyone no matter location and disappearing simultaneously for everyone at the same time. Same with the log in server blip approx. 16 hours ago. It only lasted a short while but effected everyone simultaneously before it cleared up. Furthermore video showed that the separate issue 16 ish hours ago was only the login area that had problems and once in game everything was smooth. Which rules out a long list of things when cross referenced with multiple players from multiple locations and points directly to the login servers as the problem in that case. The login blip was a different issue to the main rubberbanding problem. Video helped demonstrate that far better then any written bug report.
For the rubberbanding in game lag the fact the streamers are showing the people in UK, Germany, US and everywhere else are all effected at the same time rules out localised problems. You appear to be downplaying essential and useful data which in this case has been more useful then written bug reports.
Combined with the many negative tests we know it’s not a data routing problem from the player to the servers. Which strongly suggests the current problem is something internal to the servers rather then on the players end or in between the player and the servers. Of course there will be a handful of outline cases that are unrelated to the main lag and are different localised lag. But that is not dealing with the main issue at hand and is an entirely different conversation.
As is often the cause with your own posts, you could do with taking your own advice. You shouldn’t presume many of us haven’t done rigorous due diligence, haven’t provide full documentation (which include useful video) and given as much quantitative fodder as possible. That’s why we know Pathping and tracert is not helping diagnose the problem any further and its well past the time to move on from that test and move onto other sources of data. Hence the study of live streamers data source.
Kael's asking for ISP and location data to diagnose the problem, not "live streamer data" or youtube videos (which can only provide nuance on how lag is manifesting, the when and where is a convenience aid to written reports, which here only spottily replicates a negative spike in Cryptic-observable population patterns. You did not generate fresh insight, nor did you critically evaluate alternate hypotheses such as "higher lag in login areas during times of exceptionally high login"). It's very likely a data routing problem between players and Cryptic for them to be explicitly seeking this information now. Pathping and tracert tests provide critically relevant info here. But Kael's turned to twitter, support forums having failed to provide a wide enough census as players are evidently turning to newcomers to the topic and saying "Nah we've got this!" (narrator: lol).
Feel free to reply with diagnostic data and/or the requested information for Kael. But nothing else you can say at this stage would be helpful or on topic for a bug reporting thread. Best to just do the simple things the devs are asking of us in addition to whatever supplemental documentation you care to provide (though video is much better suited to documenting the behavior of art and gameplay bugs. For networking, read the sticky and advise others to do the same as a first course of action to build large and detailed datasets for Cryptic to make conclusions from, not you.)
If both ISPs are following the same regional route as they hone in on Cryptic then they'll exhibit the same symptoms. This is not an exclusionary test for routing problems between you and Cryptic. It only means your local equipment and first-hop ISP are not the issue.
The thing to do would be to post your location and ISP (per Kael) and follow that up with a tracert/pathping per the requested due diligence of the forum and additional information on the route your connection is taking (just to give as much detail as possible in case something obvious doesn't come from a list of regions and ISPs). Next time, don't try to litigate on what you *ought* to provide per your personal reckoning. That can be (and here is) wrong. Follow directions and let the devs handle things from there. If something truly doesn't help, they'll update stickies accordingly to manage this QA channel of theirs. If you feel another bit of info would help, provide it. More detail is generally better than less.
But don't do that at the expense of requested data.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Need I remind you that you’re the one displaying attitude rather than engaging in a constructive discussion. Ultimately the goal here is to help people not attempt to “win” like you seem to be trying to do. I have no interest in wining. My goal is to help. If you only want to win a discussion, we can end this now.
You say I did not generate fresh insight but A: you have so far generated zero fresh insight yourself, instead going over the same old repeated negative test that has been done to death for over a week now. You seem to be keen on pointing out others, are not giving fresh insight while not bothering to provide any yourself. Which is a repeatable pattern with your posts. You make accusations against other people on the very things you are doing yourself.
B: if you had done your due diligence, you would know Keal and the live streams where engaging and Keal follows select Live Steamers as a way to keep track of the community and track problems.
The likely reason Keal is not asking for live streamer data is because he already has it from before the sever restart and is still receiving it. Just this morning I watched as one of the live streamers Keal follows tagged Keal with a video for data.
You are conflicting different things. The situation is fluid and that Twitter post is from after my post and after the server restart as the situation has moved on. After the server restart only partly worked the next sensible step is what Keal did and go back out to the community to gather more data. That doesn’t invalidate anything in my last post like you appear to be strongly suggesting.
Furthermore what Keal is asking for is not what you keep going on about. Keal is not that I have seen, asking for yet more Pathping and tracert tests which are not showing any problems. Keal is asking for general location and your ISP which is a different data set so new conclusions can be analysed and drawn. There is nothing wrong with expanding data sets as the situation changes and this does not invalidate my previous posts or points.
Actually I don’t think that’s true; I think that is yet another false assumption you have made. Keal has a history and has always favoured the Reddit, Twitter and other sources over these forums due to how he has been treated in the past. Where is your supporting evidence for that statement?
I don’t believe that Keal went to Twitter because these forums didn’t provide a wide enough census. Twitter and Reddit are his default go to place before the forums. It’s been like that for years.
Really? How would you know that without knowing anything about me? is this yet another false assumption you have made? It feels like all you want to do is criticise other people while making no meaningful contributions yourself.
Not only am I a System Engineer but last time STO had major Lag problems I went out my way to travel the world getting data points from multiple county’s using the same equipment that I took with me for consistent data references. As far as I am aware I was the first person to find the problem with Akamai and post about it in these forums before anyone else along with also emailing and summiting a full data report to the devs. So I don't buy into your false statement.
Total nonsense. I found out about the Akamai problem last time around by drawing my own conclusions. If I followed your terrible advice, I would never have found that out and never then been able to email a full report over to the devs or post in detail about it on the forums in the relevant threads. It is often healthy and often conductive to have outside eyes take a look at data to offer a differing prospectives or come up with new insights that might otherwise might not be found with an internal team.
Yet again you make a false assumption and proceed as though that assumption is fact and correct when its completely wrong on your part.
Instead of being so passive aggressive you could have asked. Did I consider the alternate hypotheses of "higher lag in login areas during times of exceptionally high login" but instead look at what you did. You acted like you are superior and made a false statement.
Perhaps you should have asked instead of making things up. In actual fact I did critically evaluate alternate hypotheses and look into detail like higher lag in login areas. You know what I found? There is a clear pattern in a 24hours cycle with a low and high point in both population level and a corresponding high and low point in login level with a clear repeating pattern day in day out month in month that shows in graphs. Bar the server resets which show up clearly in the graph and break the pattern as expected.
On plotting the data points, I found the brief server login problem as mentioned in my post happened around the low point not at an exceptionally high login time frame. The point it happened was when there was a minimum pressure on the logins and minimum pressure on active player base at or near the low point in the 24 hour daily cycle. The lag in the login server was completely out of frame for the expected server performance for that time of day. Furthermore when it cleared up there was no spike in players numbers which there would have been had it been due an exceptionally high login which in itself would have been an exceptional event for that time of day.
That is not how I see it for the reasons I explained before. They have in the past been useful but for this time around they are not critical or really that relevant.
This has already been explained Pathping and tracert are not showing any relevant info past the point of yet another negative result which stopped being useful a long time ago. From what I can see Pathping and tracert for the majority of player with problems are coming back clear and good and have been into week 2 now. At this point further Pathping and tracert does not appear to be adding meaningful data to the data set, or helping solve anything and its certainly not critical after its been ruled out last week.
Neither are devs asking for more more Pathping and tracert from what I have seen. If people want to submit more results go head but I don't find it conductive to solving this.
EDIT: Missed a few , which have been added in.
PS. You should review your supposition that Kael favors reddit because of the treatment received there, one community member to another. The forums are what Kael explicitly and solely requests for bug reporting on Ten Forward, and has done so for many years now. There's reasons why.
----
Folks, when the devs are explicitly asking for specific information (per posts and stickies) just give it. Done your bit? Link it or post it again for easy aggregation, providing positive examples for requested behavior to other users, encouraging a culture of thorough reporting (see. how to gain international data efficiently). The more you second guess due process the more likely you are to veer into being unhelpful, as your leading presumptions can easily bias investigation to dead ends the team's likely eliminated. You are an end user, it's not your job to deduce the problem nor is your perspective especially well suited to the task. See. armchair game design and the futility there of. What you can do is document the behavior, find reproducible triggers (if possible), and provide mass data that internal testing can't easily come to. Ex. what routes your connection is passing through, which was the issue when last STO had this kind of lag and their current information-seeking is pointing to (after weeks of internal investigation.)
Supplemental detail is in general principle better than providing insufficient information. But as I simply stated above, don't do that to the exclusion of explicitly requested information and try to bias other users to following your example. Then nothing gets done and the devs have to turn to other platforms to try getting a modicum of actionable information. This is community 101.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
Moderation Problems/Issues? Please contact the Community Manager
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Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
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C:\Windows\System32>tracert patchserver.crypticstudios.com
Tracing route to patchserver.crypticstudios.com [208.95.184.200]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms COMTREND [192.168.1.1]
2 14 ms 13 ms 10 ms 209-204-209-161.tpia.execulink.com [209.204.209.161]
3 17 ms 18 ms 14 ms 209.213.242.90
4 18 ms 17 ms 35 ms 209.213.242.89
5 * * * Request timed out.
6 23 ms 22 ms 23 ms be2994.ccr22.cle04.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.31.233]
7 34 ms 33 ms 35 ms be2879.ccr22.alb02.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.29.174]
8 43 ms 38 ms 36 ms be3600.ccr32.bos01.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.0.222]
9 40 ms 38 ms 39 ms be2378.rcr51.b002133-1.bos01.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.25.130]
10 39 ms 37 ms 36 ms 38.140.157.34
11 49 ms 89 ms 41 ms 198.49.243.237
12 37 ms 37 ms 36 ms patchserver.crypticstudios.com [208.95.184.200]
Trace complete.
C:\Windows\System32>pathping patchserver.crypticstudios.com
Tracing route to patchserver.crypticstudios.com [208.95.184.200]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
0 Khaless.Home [192.168.1.102]
1 COMTREND [192.168.1.1]
2 209-204-209-161.tpia.execulink.com [209.204.209.161]
3 209.213.242.90
4 209.213.242.89
5 * * *
Computing statistics for 100 seconds...
Source to Here This Node/Link
Hop RTT Lost/Sent = Pct Lost/Sent = Pct Address
0 Khaless.Home [192.168.1.102]
0/ 100 = 0% |
1 0ms 0/ 100 = 0% 0/ 100 = 0% COMTREND [192.168.1.1]
0/ 100 = 0% |
2 12ms 0/ 100 = 0% 0/ 100 = 0% 209-204-209-161.tpia.execulink.com [209.204.209.161]
0/ 100 = 0% |
3 15ms 0/ 100 = 0% 0/ 100 = 0% 209.213.242.90
0/ 100 = 0% |
4 16ms 0/ 100 = 0% 0/ 100 = 0% 209.213.242.89
Trace complete.
C:\Windows\System32>
MY ISP is Execulink in Canada (Woodstock,ON)
I replied to the post on the link above, but I think wouldn't hurt to post here as well.
Rastreando a rota para patchserver.crypticstudios.com [208.95.184.200]
com no máximo 30 saltos:
1 1 ms 2 ms 1 ms 192.168.0.1
2 2 ms 2 ms <1 ms My.Router [192.168.1.1]
3 5 ms 4 ms 4 ms 186-230-221-128.ded.intelignet.com.br [186.230.221.128]
4 4 ms 4 ms 3 ms 10.40.8.68
5 4 ms 5 ms 3 ms 10.230.30.55
6 4 ms 4 ms 4 ms 10.223.238.236
7 * * * Esgotado o tempo limite do pedido.
8 * 111 ms * 195.22.199.82
9 118 ms 113 ms 111 ms ae-15.edge6.Miami1.Level3.net [4.68.62.57]
10 * * * Esgotado o tempo limite do pedido.
11 141 ms 133 ms 133 ms PERFECT-WOR.bear2.Boston1.Level3.net [4.16.14.234]
12 305 ms 304 ms 299 ms 198.49.243.237
13 * * 302 ms patchserver.crypticstudios.com [208.95.184.200]
Rastreamento concluído.
C:\Windows\System32>pathping patchserver.crypticstudios.com
Rastreando a rota para patchserver.crypticstudios.com [208.95.184.200]
com no máximo 30 saltos:
0 Nitro5-Feaukuti [192.168.0.186]
1 192.168.0.1
2 My.Router [192.168.1.1]
3 186-230-221-128.ded.intelignet.com.br [186.230.221.128]
4 10.40.8.68
5 10.230.30.55
6 10.223.238.236
7 * * *
Calculando estatísticas para 150 segundos...
Origem aqui Este nó/Vínculo
Perdido/Enviado Perdido/Enviado
Salto RTT = Pct = Pct Endereço
0 Nitro5-Feaukuti [192.168.0.186]
0/ 100 = 0% |
1 1ms 0/ 100 = 0% 0/ 100 = 0% 192.168.0.1
0/ 100 = 0% |
2 2ms 0/ 100 = 0% 0/ 100 = 0% My.Router [192.168.1.1]
0/ 100 = 0% |
3 3ms 0/ 100 = 0% 0/ 100 = 0% 186-230-221-128.ded.intelignet.com.br [186.230.221.128]
100/ 100 =100% |
4 --- 100/ 100 =100% 0/ 100 = 0% 10.40.8.68
0/ 100 = 0% |
5 --- 100/ 100 =100% 0/ 100 = 0% 10.230.30.55
0/ 100 = 0% |
6 --- 100/ 100 =100% 0/ 100 = 0% 10.223.238.236
Rastreamento concluído.
I'm from São Paulo, Brazil
ISP TIM
I never had disconnect issues in the Midwest/USA, then for a couple of years in Phoenix, AZ. Then in October of 2023 STO became a map-crash fest for me. I started a different thread here and provided many, many pathpings, tracerts, packet loss analysis, my own Tech dept analysis, my ISP (Cox) field tech and sys engineer analysis. My ticket was closed & it was implied that I had a problem with my ISP, after I'd already replaced my PC, modem, router with very high end gear plus invested in the fastest residentual service available. I still log in to attempt events (most event TFO's work well) but doing map changes, i.e., just going to Fleet Research has 100% server disconnects. So if the problems are not specifically caused by the game servers nor the customer ISP nor the customer hardware, who is responsible for the "middleman" who delivers packets to the game server(s)??
I've moved on to other games, but I love the genre and would like to come back if the technical issues can be fixed. I don't think the fix is anything I can accomplish.