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The Battle of Wolf 359 (TFO)
protoneous
Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User
I just played this to complete my Anniversary daily. It took just over 7 minutes so short and sweet. What are your thoughts on this TFO ?
Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
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I've voiced my disliking of the forced ship skin change (recently) before, so I won't go into that again.
I believe the mission is too static. The cube just seems to have randomly decided to hold still at some spot. And then, when we're done shooting at it, it decides to move. Why didn't it do so before? Did it really expect us to surrender and escort them to our home system? Surely they must know, after assimilating thousands of species, that that is unlikely to work?
Besides that, nothing what you do really matters. Despite you blowing up everything easily, the text messages will give the (hence not very believable) impression that everything is doomed. At some point it's just over because the cube has decided that it's time to move on.
I don't see much logic to the chose tactics and behaviour of our enemy.
Guillotine is much more enjoyable, in my opinion. It's more dynamic, there's a clear progression in what is happening and it's also made understandable why things are happening / need to be done.
Edit: I did like the one reference to another captain than the one you'd expect. But that's really it.
I'll second all of this.
I'm afraid I'm in the "meh" camp. I made the effort to tractor some survivors amidst the autofire pew-pew but that felt less interesting than in the Discovery and Mars TFOs. I circled around the cube, but it didn't feel like I was doing much.
At least it isn't more runs of Jupiter Iratus
I also wanted the Endeavour to be the survivor of the battle.
I don't mind the alternate ship skin, that doesn't bother me, and it's a different ship to look at other than the ones i normally use. I did like the sound bites from the show. nice touch. Wish that the tfo had more play time, more sound bites, more co-op with consequences (failure for not playing objectives), and did the whole epic battle of wolf 359 justice.
It might not be "epic" but then, looking at the trickier TFOs, most people don't do so well with epic challenges anyway.
The core problem is there is no threat and no challenge its just sit waiting until the timer runs out. Auto hand out TFO's are terrible. Hopefully we will get an Elite version with a fail condition. I am hopeful the Elite version after the event will be much better.
The way the TFO is set up it only takes one or two people doing the rescues to get close to the max on them, and the rest have to keep the assimilation spheres in check so they do not destroy all of the escape pods and NPC ships. The worst run of it I have been in so far was when too many people were rescuing pods and we were buried in spheres, overall the score was lower than the runs that had most people doing the "pew pew".
Well, if you just sit around waiting for the timer to run out then sure, I imagine it's little challenge.
I've seen completion times range from 7 minutes to 18 minutes depending on how active and competent the players were, so it's one of the better TFOs where actually being better and more active at it gets you a faster completion with a higher payout.
And historically there is no 'fail' condition since the Cube wiped out almost every ship, then moved on. So all you're trying to do here (as is said in the intro) is "minimize losses". That's what completes it faster, and pays more.
You will also find that Wolf 359 presents plenty of threat to regular players. I see no shortage of knocked-out and damaged players ships during an average run. Some players go well out of their way to maximize every possible aspect of their ship, captain and build - in that case, the 'lack of challenge' on a standard event TFO is their own fault.
We are not travelling back in time to fight the Borg at Wolf 359, we are in a simulation of the battle of Wolf 359.
That, to me, takes away from whatever "stakes" I might try to imagine. It is the equivalent of me, when I was in the Navy, playing some WW II game with some of my shipmates.
No matter how many of us might have collected for a game of Risk, it was still just a game.
Now, that being said, I have only "died" once, but have never "won". The Cube gets down to ~40% and leaves.
That, to me, was the biggest flaw. Even as a simulation we are forced to relive history. Why not let us try to defeat the cube at Wolf 359?
Maybe it should be very hard. That is fine. The cube was one of the biggest threats to the Federation, and Earth, that Starfleet had faced to that point. But let us try to "win" instead of just racking up a score.
You're not meant to win this simulation, just like Binary stars, and nor should you 'win'. You are there to 'learn', not to 'rewrite' history (Temporal Agents frown on that behaviour
+1 to this. I'd rather try to "win" than just sit there passively doing the odd menial task while getting some sort of a history lesson.
"They fought bravely in order to minimize losses for those who survived" versus "they did what they could in order to maximize their payout and return to space dock more quickly". How would you want history to remember your ship and crew?
For me, though, the real appeal is seeing the BoBW models. It gives me hope that we can get the Springfield, Niagara, Freedom, Challenger and Proto-Nebula classes to play with.
I don't get what you are saying. There are 4 core points to rescue escape pods which just happen to be in the same spot to destroy all the targets you need in that area. So 4 members of each team sits around in the 4 separate zones picking up pods barely moving and destroying the objects in there zone facing. Leaving a 5th player with nothing really to do but float around or sit on the top facing. Your barely active just sitting there with auto fire on and every so often hitting F to pick up pods then 7 to 8 minute later the TFO ends.
No I don't find Wolf 359 presents plenty of threat to players. I rarely see anyone blow up and I never have to use a healing bridge officer power not once.
As for maximize every possible aspect of their ship. I am playing a Tricobalt boat so I don't see how you can call it my own fault. A Tricobalt boat is pretty much seen as the weakest weapon system and lowest damage output build in game.
Like I said before I like the idea of the TFO but there is zero threat, challenge and a bare minimum player interaction so its extremely boring as an event TFO. I do think its a good idea for a TFO but I feel the devs have gone to far into the easy auto win handout design.
Some others from Wolf359 that are missing but would be great to have are the two McQuarrie prototypes from Planet of Titans and the two four-engine excelsior study models (which were in the TNG version but replaced by Cheyanne class ships in the DS9 version of the battle).
Of note also is the fact that apparently a few of the Constitution II ships from the movie era were still in service, perhaps as Academy training ships or other back-line roles like local defense or pickets assigned to Starbases, which would be a great way to get a T6 version of that class into the cstore.
In the same vein, it would be great to have some of the DS9 "kitbash fleet" ships (though the devs apparently hate them all except the Centaur class and Antares class), especially the Yeager class that has appeared in the background (the shooting models were too small and crude for foreground use) in so many DS9 episodes was actually popular and many requested that it be turned into a real cstore ship when a variant of the class was presented as part of an April fools joke.
Also, the Bradford class. Technically it is not screen canon since its model was built but never actually appeared onscreen, but it fills a hole in the Starfleet support roster. It is another Miranda variant, this time with big cargo pods slung underneath and the nacelles in the upper position (mounted to the rollbar struts) while the cargo pods take up the struts the nacelles usually occupy (which are fitted with curved attachment plates for the detachable pods). Being an armed freighter, it would help satisfy the people wanting more armed merchant ships and could be done with just a few new parts for the Miranda line instead of needing a whole new mesh.
I agree but you have to find those first lol
Rescuing pods and destroying cube weapons doesn't really do anything worthwhile bar possibly a tiny amount of marks. The entire TFO comes down to waiting for a sphere to spawn, kill it, wait for another kill it until the target number has been hit.
Well whatevs, you first complained it was just a "sit and wait for timer to run out" auto-handout. Then you complained it wasn't hard enough. Then you imagined the scenario where 4 competent players each take a side, kill all and rescue pods while ignoring all damage (which never happens in an actual Event TFO btw).
Now you've boiled it down to just one activity and the most boring, unrewarding way possible to complete it. So the point still holds - yes, if you insist on doing the TFO in the most boring way possible, it's probably boring. That's on you.
It's an Event TFO, it's just the normal version, it's meant to be accessible to everyone even some newbie with Tier 3 ship and white gear. If you want to complain that it's too auto, easy and boring for you, stop trying to find the most boring way to complete it. I'm sure it'll get tougher after the event and higher versions of it come out.
Also, the marks difference isn't "tiny". It's like 100 marks or so for a minimal completion, and 165+ for a solid run. That's over 50%, not insignificant. For instance, I'm doing extra runs of Wolf on newer chars that don't have a lot of marks yet, in T5 or event ships with Mk XII gear. I can assure you, for those guys the TFO isn't a cakewalk.
We're not likely to get a C-Store Connie outside of the Legendary. However they actually DID pick a Connie that was listed as a Training vessel, the USS Republic. In Canon she was listed as a training ship that hasn't left Sol since the early 24th Century. In STO it looks like she took part in Wolf 359.
Honestly I'm hoping for the prominent Kitbash ships (Niagara, Freedom, Springfield, Challenger) and the Cheyenne. Good time to finally give a T6 Cheyenne, and honestly would be the only game that even touched the other ships of Wolf 359 outside of fan created mods.
I mean we already have the New Orleans, and that one was from Wolf 359.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
No, it’s not on me that it has a very poor design. I am not trying to find the most boring way to complete this. I am already running an extremely crippled build what else do you want me to do?
You can sit at the top of the TFO and shot spheres. Or you can do some pointless escape pods that have pretty much zero impact on anything and end up with pretty much same result as if you just shot spheres.
How am I meant to play it differently?
You might want to relook at those marks. The difference is more like 30marks and I personally have nothing to use those marks on.
How do you get 165+ for a solid run. Unless you are running bonus marks its 42+36+30 for a max possible 108. I know you can get more with bonus marks but that has little impact on if you do the bare minimum or get all pods.
Just by killing the sphere you are going to pretty much kill the weapons so the minimum marks is pretty much near max. If someone does the bare minimum and picks up a few pods you are already near the max possible. We are talking a 15 to 20 mark difference between getting a few pods and all pods.
It looks to me like you are just blaming players without good reason when it’s not the players fault.
I can ensure you for those types of characters who are only half competent it’s a cakewalk. If you look at how it works it takes 1 half competent player to complete the TFO in around 7-8mins for near max marks. Due to the very poor design 5 players is just overkill.
It isn't history. We are not there. We are in a simulation fighting simulated Borg,
Being able to actually overcome the enemy wouldn't change history any more than rescuing or not rescuing some of those escape pods will.
Want us to learn something? Let us see what sort of tactics and firepower would have been necessary to win at Wolf 359.
Once the "cube fight" section begins make the Cube reflect damage and call in 3 spheres, then every 20% (80, 60, 40, and 20) give it another reflect period and call in more and more powerful help. Make it the most difficult TFO to "win", but if there is no fail condition then you get credit and some amount of marks and life goes on.
As it is? No one learns anything from this unless they were unaware of what happened at Wolf 359 in the first place.
I would like to see all cubes in the game be like that, though. Having to destroy hardpoints before the actual cube can be destroyed would classify them as bosses and that seems appropriate.
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We do have the Bradford, or at least something very similar to your description: the Kobayashi Maru Freighter.
Well, I guess these Mirror Borg are supposed to be the most powerful Borg yet, but it is my understanding that Voyager nerfed the Borg as part of the threat-creep that I understand existed.
I did not watch Voyager, that is just a commonly shared opinion that I have heard.
You know...
Writer 1: "We need a new big bad. Some really dangerous enemy."
Writer 2: "Okay. I'll pass the word to our concept artists and see what they can come up with. Hmmm... What should we have them do to make it clear how dangerous they are?"
Writer 1: Let's have them whip the Borg in a decidedly lopsided way!"
Writer 2: "Brilliant!"
Writer 1: "Brilliant!"
And then that happens again. And maybe again. And so it's like the game itself, where the Borg were supposed to be the big bads, but as the game went along, level cap increases made them more and more trivial and other enemies came in to take their place as the big bads.
The Kobayashi Maru is a T4 that is only very lightly armed and cannot be upgraded like the Seneca, the only other Fed freighter so far, can be. The Seneca is freighter-hulled like the WWII "jeep" carriers, but the Bradford class is built on a Starfleet mainline hull and resonates strongly with the ever-popular Ptolemy-class tug from the Franz Joseph Designs Trek tech manual much better than STO's interpretation of the Kobayashi Maru.
Watch them TRIBBLE with it and turn it into something no one wants to play when this is done…
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