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Prisoner Game Mechanic
madmartigan
Member Posts: 28 Arc User
Hello, I am sure this has been brought up before, I'd like to add/or reiterate.
The prisoner system needs overhauled. Here are my reasons:
The system punishes players who "play". That should not be. Someone who does doff missions etc. and gets prisoners in return needs to be allowed to effectively manage their received item (prisoner). On the KDF side we are allowed to submit 10 at a time for fair compensation (dilithium). This is as I am sure so many have argued, terribly missing from other factions. The time delay submitting a prisoner is excessive for the missions and only allowed (2) at a time for mediocre reward on (fed) for example is not acceptable.
I get it, people have misused the systems for dilithium. Like the rep system and multiple accounts etc. Do not punish players who "PLAY". Getting prisoners means you've done something to earn them such as doff missions.
I was getting too many on a rom/fed so I emailed them to my kdf. Much to presumption, they cannot be used in the doff mission to consign prisoners for kdf (10 doff). So, I chose to try and use the exchange for a low price. That shouldn't be.
It's all sadly misused and inappropriate for the game mechanic.
Ideas I would suggest could be as follows:
In the end, it is just a game mechanic that is not correct, misused or semi-punishing to those who have the items (prisoners).
Many just discard them as worthless. Is that how you wish a game mechanic to be viewed? Worthless?
Please consider making it better for players.
The prisoner system needs overhauled. Here are my reasons:
The system punishes players who "play". That should not be. Someone who does doff missions etc. and gets prisoners in return needs to be allowed to effectively manage their received item (prisoner). On the KDF side we are allowed to submit 10 at a time for fair compensation (dilithium). This is as I am sure so many have argued, terribly missing from other factions. The time delay submitting a prisoner is excessive for the missions and only allowed (2) at a time for mediocre reward on (fed) for example is not acceptable.
I get it, people have misused the systems for dilithium. Like the rep system and multiple accounts etc. Do not punish players who "PLAY". Getting prisoners means you've done something to earn them such as doff missions.
I was getting too many on a rom/fed so I emailed them to my kdf. Much to presumption, they cannot be used in the doff mission to consign prisoners for kdf (10 doff). So, I chose to try and use the exchange for a low price. That shouldn't be.
It's all sadly misused and inappropriate for the game mechanic.
Ideas I would suggest could be as follows:
- Allow as many as you wish (slots) to consign (kdf) or starfleet brig (fed). A type of open slots, similar to a fleet submission of doffs for a project or at least much more than (2).
- Allow a smaller cooldown on the mission timer to submit.
- Allow better rewards for (fed). Even 10 dilithium per prisoner times for example 20 prisoners submitted would be fair, that for example is a low 200 dil. You as a player did "earn" this after all. And kdf gets 2k dil for 10... unbalanced.
In the end, it is just a game mechanic that is not correct, misused or semi-punishing to those who have the items (prisoners).
Many just discard them as worthless. Is that how you wish a game mechanic to be viewed? Worthless?
Please consider making it better for players.
Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
0
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Comments
We also have to consider that KDF can get Prisoners FAR more easily through Marauding assignments, and even via Elite Slaver hanger pets.
Feds don't get them as often.
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Unsure why you would waste effort to devalue it in that way.
But I'll take a stab at it:
If you wish to debate further, please take into account that I have stated all factual things here and have spent enough effort to consider the variables (your statements, kdf, fleet projects, marauding etc.). I have simply stated a need to make something "better".
The game mechanic of Prisoners simply needs to be reevaluated by those who make the decisions. Properly utilizing an item (prisoners) benefits players and overall gameplay. Improperly utilizing (anything) causes waste. Simple as that.
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Reverting that behavior (if they haven't already, RL schedules have not been conducive to much play time lately so I have been having to only bounce in for the event daily and leave without doing housekeeping stuff like Admiralty and doffing) would help at least a little, though even before the change I often had an overflow of prisoners and nothing to do with them (and conversely not enough colonists) so it would not cure the problem altogether.
You used to be able to do that on PC, but I haven't tried it in years. I guess any Klingon who allows themselves to be taken alive is no longer Klingon?
As phoenixc pointed out, this isn't the case anymore. I think reverting this change would pretty much sort it.
Been here since March of 2012. Figured out quickly back then Prisoners (especially on the Fed side) are a complete waste of time and effort. Plenty of other content to play in this game now. And Starfleet's primary mission guidance doesn't require the taking and holding of Prisoners. Unless you're doing the Prisoner DOff assignments for Dilithium. Again, there is other content in this game which awards more Dilithium for less effort and time.
As far as Cryptic/GearBox 'overhauling' the Prisoner system, well, there are lots of other things wrong with this game which are probably ahead of this change on Cryptic/GearBoxes ToDo list.
I actually did that recently KDF side on a project for the Embassey, so... when was this change made?
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It was around the time they changed the doff contribution system to take more than just common doffs. There were so many complaints about not being able to use prisoners for it that they may have done something about it recently, but last time I had a chance to do that stuff (probably sometime early last month at least) they still did not take prisoners for some of the projects that used to accept them.
Well... I was still able to turn over Prisoners to the Fleet Embassey KDF side this last week so...
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I still think just simply adding something to properly manage them (a larger submit que in space dock vs. only 2) for example would help people manage them effectively. Not sure why that is so hard, hah.
As for the fleet submits, I again state: not very helpful with advanced or even finished fleets. That should not be a dumping area for these earned items. As for stop playing those doff missions, doff missions can take a bit of time to get all sent off, so clicking missions to get your people going often is not intricately read. I honestly don't know which missions award it. But even then, why "can't" I run those missions?
We should just be allowed to manage them better when awarded and dumping them into fleet (if) available is not it.
The colonization starbase assignments were never about fleet progression (they're a miscellaneous task with trivial rewards to the fleet on completion) but giving members an opportunity to earn FC from an abundant resource (ie colonists & prisoners). If fleets aren't offering them to members: that's a fleet management problem as any fleet leaders worth their weight in GPL should be trying to avoid bottlenecking basic character progression for their peers. Even if top players aren't in need of FC, there's bound to be people in the fleet or across the armada who could use it for gear, character upgrades, or sellable doffs.
It's important to make sure those opportunities are happening, with senior fleet leaders making sure that tasks are progressing for those FC activities and there's always something stocked in rotation. That's their number one daily/weekly job, as gear progression though fleets is VERY important to helping players progress through STO's difficulty curve. If they fall off, the end-game progression path begins to break down as things like spire consoles, trait slot upgrades, and fleet ships become inaccessible (due to lack of donation opportunities.)
These tasks should be a dumping ground because they provide a very accessible means of earning FC that don't fill up quite as fast as fleet marks (and aren't as precious as EC or DIL). It's an excellent way of taking advantage of the doff system's reward balance, such as it is.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
If we want to focus on fleets for utilizing this game mechanic [prisoners] then there "should" be an area to "unload excess" prisoners too [there currently is not regardless to all this debate]. A new added project would be needed, even if it is for manual labor to complete their rehabilitation such as on a mining asteroid (dilithium mine) or something fun like that. But it would have to be a new project added not the current system. Currently, it is inadequate, sorry to all the differing opinions here, its logically not good enough to "dump" into.
I said, fleets "should not be a dumping area for these earned items" and I stand by that according to how the system [currently works] which is mediocre and only good for a growing (not completed) fleet. I would be fine with a dump area for prisoners on fleets but a lot of variables are not being considered in previous responses here such as the point of a "completed" fleet not to mention any submissions of prisoners to fleets currently is a small amount for what, (1) project? It is not just prisoners, there are other requirements too in the project making it difficult for people to race each other to fill it. It would have to be something like the stated above, an "unload" project like the fleet marks on starbase. Which I would be all for btw!
But again, trying to aim back at some of the original post, just submitting 2 at a time at ESD is pathetic and it should be reimagined and better utilized. It is simply a poor game mechanic and that's not an irrational thing to say. Better options would be appreciated by many players. Why? Because it's a game mechanic not properly utilized meaning players do have stock of prisoners unless they just throw them away, again proving the point...
Marks are extremely easy to get as a side-effect of doing TFOs for the events even when one no longer needs them to advance reputations and build fleet facilities, especially when the fleet is one that does fleet runs of various TFOs as a community activity, so that steep reduction in value almost makes sense.
That reduction in payout would not make sense in regard to prisoners since those mainly come from the eye-wateringly boring, pain-in-the-posterior Admiralty system, it would simply not be worth the irritation of doing the prisoner-collecting admiralty missions in the first place if the rewards were any less than they are already.
The colonization project take prisoners, 64 in fact. Even if you have many players in your fleet who are absolutely maxed on prisoners (20) running the project a few times clears out that backlog very rapidly. For a fleet that isn't being mismanaged (solution: manage it better, projects are fleet leadership's #1 regular job and the colonization project is an excellent thing to be regularly if not constantly running) there should be zero problem with having too many prisoners. Excesses are *easily* cleared by this project. And the explicit colonization premise of the project can be interpreted as rehab or merciful transfers (whatever your faction happens to be) which for FED is far more fitting than forced labor in dil mines (Rura Penthe style).
/debate.
There is absolutely no argument to make that this situation is mechanically or narratively lacking. I have no idea how you are arriving at that conclusion (besides not seeing how your own behaviors are contributing to the problem). Cryptic creating any other turn-in is simply excusing you from having to engage with existing systems that cover that need entirely, or to throttle back from behaviors that are generating too many prisoners. For FED these are vastly coming from admiralty and you can CHOOSE to avoid those projects by 1) not queuing them, 2) using tokens to skip them or 3) intentionally failing with shuttles to clear the project without a token (which is often the most productive skip option for bad admiralty projects given the cost of a temporarily occupied slot is generally less than the cost of an admiralty skip token, which you can use as a benchmark for dysfunctional game design. This is what that actually looks like). You have good tools in hand to cover needs. If you don't want too many prisoners, stop stepping on rakes that maintain having too many prisoners.
And as for the FED's 2 prisoner transfer doff assignment vs. the KDF's 10, the FED isn't a faction bent on raiding and this plays out across the balance of their unique doff assignments. You get diplomacy instead, emphasizing narrative difference in faction through game balance with resource perks leaning KDF to provide extra incentive to play them despite the integral biases of the IP and its attendant fandom (ie. fundamentally good design decisions for STO to be making). 2 per turn-in with minor rewards is thus well suited to their real doffing needs. You run into problems if you're grinding out admiralty for prisoners (a KDF strategy), yet not using them for the fleet colonization project, forcing the doff turn-in to handle a load that is wildly inappropriate for FED, generated despite there not being any reason to.
Rake, meet face.
The frustration you're feeling is FEEDBACK, naturally calling for changes of behavior to fit the structure of this part of the game (used for effect, if you want top resource perks for prisoner grinding play KDF. It's their thing). No dev action is warranted, especially as there's no guarantee with how assiduously existing solutions are being avoided that you would actually take advantage of new turn-ins in the medium/long term. There's always a potential reason to justify an unsatisfactory judgement and the call for something else, given the fallacy of perfection. See. 64 prisoners per project or calling it colonization support (generalized) not being enough with no limit to how associated goalposts can be moved given your stated issues. You can assert ad infinitum that this is poor game mechanics, but that's not the same as substantiation objective enough to warrant action. Sometimes, if you find yourself banging your head into the wall, go around the wall rather than expecting someone else to remove it (irrespective of wider function.)
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Actually, I learned something new here that I overlooked.
People throw around the words and terms a lot regarding fleets and even all things in this game, but aren't specific, just presuming everyone knows which area you're referring to. That is what happened to me here and I got confused.
The past setup in fleets used to allow prisoners to be used in certain areas as civilian (not Starbase) like others have stated and even been able to still do? Anyway, I was under the impression too, that was still a thing. And yes, totally, this project was mediocre for this need (prisoners) in my opinion, due to the small amount and hard to get it set as a project when other projects were more important etc. It also cost other items, I don't recall which ones, like (dil) but that is where my headspace was at and in differing opinion about its efficiency.
That changed at some point? Or maybe I just never noticed?
Because currently, the project you are referring to for example, is specifically in [Starbase] under [Special Projects], [Coordinate Colonization Efforts]. I had no idea... lol, this existed until 5 mins ago trying to figure out what ya'll were talking about. And I've personally loaded the [upload surplus fleet marks] in [starbase] Hah. I must have totally overlooked it, I would guess. Yeah, that is a very helpful project and only 25 mins for duration. Other projects can get in the way unfortunately, as is the case at the moment for me, but it's there at least. Had I known this, it would have turned this entire original post nonexistent.
Thanks for the learning opportunity. "The more you know", Insert rainbow.
Transporter Pattern Buffer?
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No more odd than being able to take a bridge officer candidate, grind them into a delicious slurry, then feed them to another bridge officer to teach them a new skill. Yum! Cannibalicious!