A few people in ESD where talking about how they thought the mail was empty and they deleted the wrong mail losing more EC after this change then they did before. I can only assume a miss click or perhaps being tired and making a mistake. Either way in the old system the trades would have been safe. Now there is a risk of losing EC every single time you trade.
There also the possibility to press delete all, confirmation yes right at the same time a new EC mail comes in. Which in theory will delete that mail as well. I have not tested this but it seems feasible with the slight delays and lag.
I just tried this. I am unable to check the Delete box next to any mail that have unclaimed items on them. The Delete Selected button is greyed out until you claim the items. Seems like the claims people are making on ESD are hyperbole.
Puzzled because I just sold an item for 1 EC and deleted the mail with EC. I did that before reading your post. I wonder what we have done differently to each other.
So yesterday, our executive producer, Jarrod, basically said, "What do you MEAN they have to go to a mailbox to pick up their items, is this 2002?"
So that's already been changed and will be in a future update.
Thank you so much that was a big part of the problem. Will this apply to EC or just items? I am still not keen on the possibility of losing EC that used to be safe in the old system.
I can only hope this "EC from Exchange to Mailbox" is a Bug, cause this is ABYSMAL and needs to be fixed ASAP, like wth... 40 items sold = 40 Times "Take Item" just to collect all the EC from the Mailbox?..and with several Characters....yea thats a BIG FAT NOPE
So yesterday, our executive producer, Jarrod, basically said, "What do you MEAN they have to go to a mailbox to pick up their items, is this 2002?"
So that's already been changed and will be in a future update.
That's a good start. Can you also request that we only receive an EC mail when we pass the limiet on our character and otherwise receive the EC directly by default?
If it's changed that way then it'd be a fine addition that has little impact to how things worked while it actually protects those that would otherwise lose EC.
So yesterday, our executive producer, Jarrod, basically said, "What do you MEAN they have to go to a mailbox to pick up their items, is this 2002?"
So that's already been changed and will be in a future update.
Sweet! Hopefully the end result will be an actual QoL improvement and not just "Oh we fixed the one thing our exec noticed".
Tips for actual improvement:
- Make it so holding down CTRL or ENTER while clicking on an exchange item executes a single-click purchase.
- Make it so holding CTRL or ENTER while double-clicking on an item in your Inventory posts it exchange at the same price as the previous item listed. (Alternately, ENTER/d-click posts entire stack, CTRL/d-click posts single item)
- EC or item purchases should only go into mailbox when they would cause an overflow of the pertinent container.
I did not try the exchange but it sounds like the way the exchange worked back in the day. also the way it worked(s) in Neverwinter. can't say for certain have not played Neverwinter in a couple years. it's not a big deal to me, on PC can't speak for Console
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,672Community Moderator
That's a good start. Can you also request that we only receive an EC mail when we pass the limiet on our character and otherwise receive the EC directly by default?
If it's changed that way then it'd be a fine addition that has little impact to how things worked while it actually protects those that would otherwise lose EC.
As I pointed out earlier, I believe that is the INTENDED result. ECs are deposited normally... UNLESS they would go over your EC cap. Then the surplus goes into the mail rather than out the airlock.
Don't forget everyone, this is a relatively old game and things may not work as intended. Getting the flamethrowers doesn't work. Patience and being clear on what the issue is tends to work better. As Kael has said, things are going to be changing in an upcoming update. This system most likely will take a few passes to nail down, but constructive feedback will help fine tune it, which is far better than lighting the forums on fire with rage.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
As I pointed out earlier, I believe that is the INTENDED result. ECs are deposited normally... UNLESS they would go over your EC cap. Then the surplus goes into the mail rather than out the airlock.
It might be intended, but that's not how it currently works. I hope they take another look at it and fix it the way you & I described. If they do it'll be an actual improvement, right now it just sucks.
So yesterday, our executive producer, Jarrod, basically said, "What do you MEAN they have to go to a mailbox to pick up their items, is this 2002?"
So that's already been changed and will be in a future update.
Glad to hear this. Been here for the duration. There are stretches of time where I PvP for weeks and sometimes months on end. There are stretches where I'm a DPS chaser, and stretches where I'm just around playing Barbie. What keeps me playing when I'm burned on the rest is a bit of exchange working, supplying whatever you want to call it. The exchange was the only thing that kept me logging in when I was burned on all that stuff. Its one of the few things you can point to and say STO does this better then other MMOs. I understand wanting (after a 14 years) to fix the possibility someone could loose EC. However there has to be an easier way... something like the Inventory overflow. Where if your over the cap it mails you the EC... and locks out out of posting, or buying till you take care of it.
Puzzled because I just sold an item for 1 EC and deleted the mail with EC. I did that before reading your post. I wonder what we have done differently to each other.
You cannot select the checkbox on an email if there are unclaimed items on it. The Delete button is greyed out until you claim the items. Highlighting the mail and clicking the Delete Selected button does not remove the email if there are unclaimed items attached.
Select a mail with items or ec attached to it. Close the mail window. Re-open the mail window, and notice that the Delete button is not greyed out, and will work (it will warn you before deleting, but if you click OK it will delete the mail with items).
Select any mail that has no items attached, and then select a mail with items attached. The delete button will now be properly greyed out.
The upshot is that the delete button is only properly greyed out if you select a mail without items attached. If you open the mailbox with a mail with attachments selected, you can use the delete button, and can do that on as many mails with attachments as you like until you select a mail with no attachments, at which point the delete button will stop working until you close and re-open the mailbox with an attachment message deleted.
Until it's fixed, it's possible that some folks don't realize you can "select all" by clicking the "Del" column header. It selects everything that doesn't have an attachment. Then you click "delete selected" and it deletes them. It doesn't solve everything, but it's better than clicking them individually, which it sounds like some folks are doing.
If you actually can be bothered to do DOFF assignments that require a multitude of colonists or prisoners usually bought from the Exchange (e.g. for colonization clusters or at the resident security officer), and that daily on several account characters, you will clearly see the cumbersomeness and annoyance this rash and not well thought-out change has introduced. Hoping for a quick and sensible fix.
Since this was done to save players from losing EC when going over their cap (which clearly does not happen that often for most players), I would prefer if the in-game mailing of EC is only done when you actually do exceed your EC cap in a transaction. Otherwise the system ought to work like it has before (instant inventory deposit of items or EC payout) for many, many years.
So yesterday, our executive producer, Jarrod, basically said, "What do you MEAN they have to go to a mailbox to pick up their items, is this 2002?"
So that's already been changed and will be in a future update.
If that the case, one wonders HOW the change that went to Live (and all the way through QA) got APPROVED in the first place.
Sorry Kael, something doesn't pass the smell test with STO's EP NOT knowing being involved with the initial change in the first place; and IF that is indeed the case, STOs Change Control system has MAJOR issues.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
If that the case, one wonders HOW the change that went to Live (and all the way through QA) got APPROVED in the first place.
One explanation is that something may work as intended in the Dev Server, but once it hits the Live server, with the sheer population... something borks that didn't before. Sometimes things slip through the cracks because you don't have the same conditions between a test server and the live server.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
So the issue of having to go to a mail box is getting fixed.
(From today's patch notes) :
Updated the mail system to allow captains to retrieve items from the mail without needing to be at a mail console.
However, it seems we'll still have to take EC from our mail instead of getting it automatically.
While the intentions were clearly good (preventing players from losing EC when they were near the cap) I just don't really see the point of having to take EC from your mail when you're not anywhere close to the cap.
Can't the system be changed so that this manually taking EC from the mail only has to be done when players approach the EC cap?
Right now and after today's maintenance, it seems the new system might be beneficial to a handful of players who have very big amounts of EC - and possibly some new players who don't have the increased EC cap yet. It's resulting in more work for everyone else (ok, just one additional click for every sold item, but still).
I will even up you one: "If it was recently fixed, don't break it again."
Seriously, I recently discovered (few weeks ago) that it was actually impossible to lose EC now. Was very near the limit, and about to transfer some to account back, when another stack of 10 keys was being sold... except the system automagically aborted the sale, telling me the transaction was canceled, as the sale would push me over the limit.
So, after 10 years, they had finally fixed the potential EC blackhole issue, only to break it again the other day.
Cryptic seems to have a habit of fixing things that don't need fixing (certain utterly unnecessary large, red reticles on Borg shield generators leap to mind). Rather, please, fix things ppl actually want to see fixed.
Okay, so I was trying to be reasonably positive about the prospect of a fix to this broken, awkward, slow and annoying "QoL improvement" on the exchange.
Apparently, the current fix, which to give due credit, is at least being done promptly, is simply to eliminate the need to run to a mailbox location to pick up items and EC.
While the issue of movement to a mailbox was indeed a nuisance and an annoyance, the actual problem stems from sending items and EC to the mailbox at all.
Here's an example:
I just bought, as I often do, 20 colonists, 12 prisoners, 5 refugees, 25 Contraband (which was 8 separate purchases). In the previous system, this required 45 double-clicks (or 90 clicks total), while keeping my DOff window open on the side to see when I had enough of each. (90 double-clicks was already awkward enough, btw, when it could/should have been 45 clicks.)
The new system requires those same 90 clicks, PLUS 1 click to select the item in mail, mouse down half the screen, 1 click to take item, mouse up half the screen, 1 click to check off the tickbox beside the mail. Repeat click mail, mouse across screen, click take, mouse up half the screen, click checkbox... 45 times. With a final "Delete Selected" mouse across and click. Plus a couple extra clicks for opening/closing mail and DOff screens.
Turning a 2 minute process with 90 clicks and a visual counter showing progress, into a 5 minute process using 228 clicks with roughly 46 full-screen mouse travels where I have to keep count of running totals of various items in my head because I can't see the numbers update until after I've retrieved anything.
Not to indulge in overmuch hyperbole, but this is sheer insanity. This is literally punishment and harassment of anyone using the exchange on a regular basis.
Please go beyond this minimal "first pass" fix, and implement the suggestions I listed above for an actual QoL update to the exchange. As opposed to this badly bungled mess.
As a reminder:
"Tips for actual improvement:
- Make it so holding down CTRL or ENTER while clicking on an exchange item executes a single-click purchase.
- Make it so holding CTRL or ENTER while double-clicking on an item in your Inventory posts it to exchange at the same price as the previous item listed. (Alternately, ENTER/d-click posts entire stack, CTRL/d-click posts single item)
- EC or item purchases should only go into mailbox when they would cause an overflow of the pertinent container."
So the issue of having to go to a mail box is getting fixed.
(From today's patch notes) :
Updated the mail system to allow captains to retrieve items from the mail without needing to be at a mail console.
However, it seems we'll still have to take EC from our mail instead of getting it automatically.
While the intentions were clearly good (preventing players from losing EC when they were near the cap) I just don't really see the point of having to take EC from your mail when you're not anywhere close to the cap.
Can't the system be changed so that this manually taking EC from the mail only has to be done when players approach the EC cap?
Right now and after today's maintenance, it seems the new system might be beneficial to a handful of players who have very big amounts of EC - and possibly some new players who don't have the increased EC cap yet. It's resulting in more work for everyone else (ok, just one additional click for every sold item, but still).
Yes, I also hope this is just a quick relief fix and it will be improved upon for the next patch, so that bought items (especially DOFFs) will be instantly deposited and any mailing of EC will be reduced to only the rare cases where you actually do exceed your EC cap in a transaction. Because having to click up to 40 in-game mails each day twice to first retrieve the attached EC amount and then delete every such empty mail is still rather cumbersome.
And you have to do it because these mails will otherwise block -- in equal number -- the new items you can post for sale in the Exchange.
If that the case, one wonders HOW the change that went to Live (and all the way through QA) got APPROVED in the first place.
One explanation is that something may work as intended in the Dev Server, but once it hits the Live server, with the sheer population... something borks that didn't before. Sometimes things slip through the cracks because you don't have the same conditions between a test server and the live server.
This isn't a case of something breaking/slipping through the QA 'cracks' as it were. Someone MADE a decision that was implemented as intended. It was a system CHANGE that required programming, yet by Kael's comment it seems somehow that The STO Executive Producer was unaware of, or did participate in the APPROVAL of said change.
Yes, they're taking feedback and undoing a change they made; but to infer that said change was made without the EP being aware? <--- Again, if that's indeed the case STO's Change Control pipeline has a MAJOR issue, if major system changes can be made/approved without the EP being made aware of/signing off on them.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
My frustration for seeing a *real* fix is growing. It's nice that we don't have to run to the mailbox anymore, but like other people said, it's still incredibly frustrating that we have to deal with the mailbox in the first place.
Please take the mailbox out of the equation. The only thing that should be send to the mailbox is items that expired on the exchange, like how we had before. It makes sense that such items are mailed to the mailbox. In all other instances, it doesn't.
I've tested software as my job for 13 years, if I saw a change like this being pushed through then I'd ask the Product Owner what the hell he's thinking with a change like this. The only good fix is to undo the patch update from last Tuesday with regards to the exchange.
It's just not fun anymore to play STO while this issue remains.
The only real change I would consider necessary at this point is some way to speed up the process of getting things out of the mail.
One option would be the way WoW handles it, where shift+clicking a mail entry automatically loots the item or currency that it contains. Anther option would be a "loot all" button that attempts to retrieve all items and currency from all mail entries, though that would require some extra code to trigger an error message if doing so would exceed the inventory or currency limits.
Comments
So yesterday, our executive producer, Jarrod, basically said, "What do you MEAN they have to go to a mailbox to pick up their items, is this 2002?"
So that's already been changed and will be in a future update.
That's a good start. Can you also request that we only receive an EC mail when we pass the limiet on our character and otherwise receive the EC directly by default?
If it's changed that way then it'd be a fine addition that has little impact to how things worked while it actually protects those that would otherwise lose EC.
Sweet! Hopefully the end result will be an actual QoL improvement and not just "Oh we fixed the one thing our exec noticed".
Tips for actual improvement:
- Make it so holding down CTRL or ENTER while clicking on an exchange item executes a single-click purchase.
- Make it so holding CTRL or ENTER while double-clicking on an item in your Inventory posts it exchange at the same price as the previous item listed. (Alternately, ENTER/d-click posts entire stack, CTRL/d-click posts single item)
- EC or item purchases should only go into mailbox when they would cause an overflow of the pertinent container.
As I pointed out earlier, I believe that is the INTENDED result. ECs are deposited normally... UNLESS they would go over your EC cap. Then the surplus goes into the mail rather than out the airlock.
Don't forget everyone, this is a relatively old game and things may not work as intended. Getting the flamethrowers doesn't work. Patience and being clear on what the issue is tends to work better. As Kael has said, things are going to be changing in an upcoming update. This system most likely will take a few passes to nail down, but constructive feedback will help fine tune it, which is far better than lighting the forums on fire with rage.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
It might be intended, but that's not how it currently works. I hope they take another look at it and fix it the way you & I described. If they do it'll be an actual improvement, right now it just sucks.
thank you thank you thank you.
Glad to hear this. Been here for the duration. There are stretches of time where I PvP for weeks and sometimes months on end. There are stretches where I'm a DPS chaser, and stretches where I'm just around playing Barbie. What keeps me playing when I'm burned on the rest is a bit of exchange working, supplying whatever you want to call it. The exchange was the only thing that kept me logging in when I was burned on all that stuff. Its one of the few things you can point to and say STO does this better then other MMOs. I understand wanting (after a 14 years) to fix the possibility someone could loose EC. However there has to be an easier way... something like the Inventory overflow. Where if your over the cap it mails you the EC... and locks out out of posting, or buying till you take care of it.
Select any mail that has no items attached, and then select a mail with items attached. The delete button will now be properly greyed out.
The upshot is that the delete button is only properly greyed out if you select a mail without items attached. If you open the mailbox with a mail with attachments selected, you can use the delete button, and can do that on as many mails with attachments as you like until you select a mail with no attachments, at which point the delete button will stop working until you close and re-open the mailbox with an attachment message deleted.
Since this was done to save players from losing EC when going over their cap (which clearly does not happen that often for most players), I would prefer if the in-game mailing of EC is only done when you actually do exceed your EC cap in a transaction. Otherwise the system ought to work like it has before (instant inventory deposit of items or EC payout) for many, many years.
If that the case, one wonders HOW the change that went to Live (and all the way through QA) got APPROVED in the first place.
Sorry Kael, something doesn't pass the smell test with STO's EP NOT knowing being involved with the initial change in the first place; and IF that is indeed the case, STOs Change Control system has MAJOR issues.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
One explanation is that something may work as intended in the Dev Server, but once it hits the Live server, with the sheer population... something borks that didn't before. Sometimes things slip through the cracks because you don't have the same conditions between a test server and the live server.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
(From today's patch notes) : However, it seems we'll still have to take EC from our mail instead of getting it automatically.
While the intentions were clearly good (preventing players from losing EC when they were near the cap) I just don't really see the point of having to take EC from your mail when you're not anywhere close to the cap.
Can't the system be changed so that this manually taking EC from the mail only has to be done when players approach the EC cap?
Right now and after today's maintenance, it seems the new system might be beneficial to a handful of players who have very big amounts of EC - and possibly some new players who don't have the increased EC cap yet. It's resulting in more work for everyone else (ok, just one additional click for every sold item, but still).
I will even up you one: "If it was recently fixed, don't break it again."
Seriously, I recently discovered (few weeks ago) that it was actually impossible to lose EC now. Was very near the limit, and about to transfer some to account back, when another stack of 10 keys was being sold... except the system automagically aborted the sale, telling me the transaction was canceled, as the sale would push me over the limit.
So, after 10 years, they had finally fixed the potential EC blackhole issue, only to break it again the other day.
Cryptic seems to have a habit of fixing things that don't need fixing (certain utterly unnecessary large, red reticles on Borg shield generators leap to mind). Rather, please, fix things ppl actually want to see fixed.
Apparently, the current fix, which to give due credit, is at least being done promptly, is simply to eliminate the need to run to a mailbox location to pick up items and EC.
While the issue of movement to a mailbox was indeed a nuisance and an annoyance, the actual problem stems from sending items and EC to the mailbox at all.
Here's an example:
I just bought, as I often do, 20 colonists, 12 prisoners, 5 refugees, 25 Contraband (which was 8 separate purchases). In the previous system, this required 45 double-clicks (or 90 clicks total), while keeping my DOff window open on the side to see when I had enough of each. (90 double-clicks was already awkward enough, btw, when it could/should have been 45 clicks.)
The new system requires those same 90 clicks, PLUS 1 click to select the item in mail, mouse down half the screen, 1 click to take item, mouse up half the screen, 1 click to check off the tickbox beside the mail. Repeat click mail, mouse across screen, click take, mouse up half the screen, click checkbox... 45 times. With a final "Delete Selected" mouse across and click. Plus a couple extra clicks for opening/closing mail and DOff screens.
Turning a 2 minute process with 90 clicks and a visual counter showing progress, into a 5 minute process using 228 clicks with roughly 46 full-screen mouse travels where I have to keep count of running totals of various items in my head because I can't see the numbers update until after I've retrieved anything.
Not to indulge in overmuch hyperbole, but this is sheer insanity. This is literally punishment and harassment of anyone using the exchange on a regular basis.
Please go beyond this minimal "first pass" fix, and implement the suggestions I listed above for an actual QoL update to the exchange. As opposed to this badly bungled mess.
As a reminder:
"Tips for actual improvement:
- Make it so holding down CTRL or ENTER while clicking on an exchange item executes a single-click purchase.
- Make it so holding CTRL or ENTER while double-clicking on an item in your Inventory posts it to exchange at the same price as the previous item listed. (Alternately, ENTER/d-click posts entire stack, CTRL/d-click posts single item)
- EC or item purchases should only go into mailbox when they would cause an overflow of the pertinent container."
Yes, I also hope this is just a quick relief fix and it will be improved upon for the next patch, so that bought items (especially DOFFs) will be instantly deposited and any mailing of EC will be reduced to only the rare cases where you actually do exceed your EC cap in a transaction. Because having to click up to 40 in-game mails each day twice to first retrieve the attached EC amount and then delete every such empty mail is still rather cumbersome.
And you have to do it because these mails will otherwise block -- in equal number -- the new items you can post for sale in the Exchange.
This isn't a case of something breaking/slipping through the QA 'cracks' as it were. Someone MADE a decision that was implemented as intended. It was a system CHANGE that required programming, yet by Kael's comment it seems somehow that The STO Executive Producer was unaware of, or did participate in the APPROVAL of said change.
Yes, they're taking feedback and undoing a change they made; but to infer that said change was made without the EP being aware? <--- Again, if that's indeed the case STO's Change Control pipeline has a MAJOR issue, if major system changes can be made/approved without the EP being made aware of/signing off on them.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Please take the mailbox out of the equation. The only thing that should be send to the mailbox is items that expired on the exchange, like how we had before. It makes sense that such items are mailed to the mailbox. In all other instances, it doesn't.
I've tested software as my job for 13 years, if I saw a change like this being pushed through then I'd ask the Product Owner what the hell he's thinking with a change like this. The only good fix is to undo the patch update from last Tuesday with regards to the exchange.
It's just not fun anymore to play STO while this issue remains.
One option would be the way WoW handles it, where shift+clicking a mail entry automatically loots the item or currency that it contains. Anther option would be a "loot all" button that attempts to retrieve all items and currency from all mail entries, though that would require some extra code to trigger an error message if doing so would exceed the inventory or currency limits.