The raising of the EC cap did not 'gate' end-game whatsoever. Sorry, but your claim is pure nonsense and (I mean no offence) is from cloud-cuckoo-land. You don't need ANY equipment, ships etc that you can purchase to play even on Elite levels. 'Meta' does not at anytime need a lockbox ship. I could create a new F2P account and generate a highly effect build within days, it is that 'easy' to do with a little know-how.
The problem with the EC cap is pure player greed, and that's it. There is only two winners when it comes to buying keys to resell to buy an EC ship, and the person buying the ship really, really is not one of them. There are plenty of C-Store ships that can do the job of 'meta'. Buying a Lockbox ship nowadays is just for vanity, especially as those ships are ending up in Mudd's Store now as account unlocks.
Touching the 'value' or 'cap' of EC and Dil, and taking away Lobi from Lockboxes is shear suicide for the game. Cryptic are not going to do that.
"You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
I have one lifetime acct and one FTP account and I don't need anything special to get through content. As leemwatson said, you can build a great ship for practically nothing by using equipment that you get as mission rewards.
I've taken a T5 out and done content before in it with no problems.
I disagree with your suggestions. They're just not sensible and would just enrage people more if implemented.
Now a LTS and loving it.
Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.
I have come to the conclusion that I have a memory like Etch-A-Sketch. I shake my head and forget everything.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator and Resident She-Wolf
Community Moderators are Unpaid Volunteers and NOT Employees of Gearbox/Cryptic
Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
alt friendly progression for ,rep ,spelisation ,r&d ...
vehicles, that work on. larger ground and space maps. maybe improving on shuttle and ev systems
Yup, player housing, the one thing that everyone could access fairly, and keeps getting nixxed apparently. I appreciate it's a potential time-consuming task, but it's the one thing Cryptic could keep adding to that would 'regulate' the Dil-Ex fairly and consistently.
"You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
wasn't the thread about " ECONOMY FIXES/BRAINSTORMING " @leemwatson ?
Have a look higher up...something interesting happened.
"You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
The big part of the problem with a permanent sink is that it needs to be a)something is what people want b)doesn't cost too much c) isn't something that's considered "must have" so that new players won't think it's unfair towards them d) isn't seen as direct punishment towards long time players.
Cryptic is a for profit company so anything that causes those profits go away is not really an option.
Most of the stuff players want are usually either placed in the C-Store, Lobi Consortium or in a Lockbox, which just devalues Dilithium as a whole, Dilithium is only valuable since it has the Zen conversation and you buy better stuff with Zen, if T6 ships, uniforms, vanity shields, ground weapons and ship consoles were placed in the Dil Market, then Dil would have a bit of value to them.
The raising of the EC cap did not 'gate' end-game whatsoever. Sorry, but your claim is pure nonsense and (I mean no offence) is from cloud-cuckoo-land. You don't need ANY equipment, ships etc that you can purchase to play even on Elite levels. 'Meta' does not at anytime need a lockbox ship. I could create a new F2P account and generate a highly effect build within days, it is that 'easy' to do with a little know-how.
The problem with the EC cap is pure player greed, and that's it. There is only two winners when it comes to buying keys to resell to buy an EC ship, and the person buying the ship really, really is not one of them. There are plenty of C-Store ships that can do the job of 'meta'. Buying a Lockbox ship nowadays is just for vanity, especially as those ships are ending up in Mudd's Store now as account unlocks.
Touching the 'value' or 'cap' of EC and Dil, and taking away Lobi from Lockboxes is shear suicide for the game. Cryptic are not going to do that.
i mean it DID gate the playerbase into 2 economic categories... people that wont put money into zen and now cant get zen because of how lopsided the dilex is currently. and players that will put money in for zen. a large swath of the playerbase especially newer players HAVE to put money in if they want to take part in most stuff going on in the exchange.
"chop all current EC numbers in half from players gamewide" so you want ppl to quit huh cause if they do that a take the whole 5 million ec id stand to loose (which isnt alot i know) id nvr play another cryptic game ever. now if thats my response what do you think those so called "whales" are gonna do?
"my solution would be to dramatically increase the initial cap on EC or remove it entirely outright" so theft if you remove the cap (cause i paid for the increase) or TRIBBLE over your supporting player base by increasing the base limit so that i paid for nothin hmmm
all winners here imo haha
i stopped reading after the ec parts so.....
no i was suggesting essentially forcibly removing EC on all fronts to try and reset the current obscene numbers on the exchange while implementing other changes. for example if you lower the 2 bill EC cap to 1 bill and chop the number of EC in half across the board in the economy it shrinks the gap between whales and not whales, and if things like admiralty stay the same it will be far more feasible but still time consuming to grind EC that way without dedicating your life to it or gambling with flipping exchange prices
also no it doesnt have to be "theft" it shouldnt be hard for cryptic to just make a zen claim package that if you have the cap increase unlocked you just get that zen back... why was your first instinct to say im suggesting steal value from paying players? the difference in EC cap doesnt help anyone. its a cheap package its an insignificant, *technically* non zero amount of money but its nothing compared to zen sales for keys, bundles, ships, upgrade tokens etc. it really doesnt make any sense for the EC cap item to exist anymore.. all it does is artificially separate free to player players from content because of the exchange inflation
people that wont put money into zen and now cant get zen because of how lopsided the dilex is currently. and players that will put money in for zen. a large swath of the playerbase especially newer players HAVE to put money in if they want to take part in most stuff going on in the exchange..
Anyone can still get zen from dil farming, they just have to wait 3-4 weeks before the sale goes through.
Also, why shouldn't people who support the game by paying cash to Cryptic have things easier than people who want everything the game offers without contributing a dime?
Does the grocery store give you free food? Is your rent free if you are not still living at home? Is Netflix free if you don't "share passwords" or use torrents? No.
STO is nicer than that at least. Since the exchange does work (slowly) the never-pay people can still get most everything except a lifetime sub on PC, eventually.
And for most ships except the newest, you don't even need the dil exchange. I've gotten two free promo pack ships and am sitting on the token from Event Campaign 4, while 5 just started and includes all ships through the end of 2022.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,521Community Moderator
STO is nicer than that at least. Since the exchange does work (slowly) the never-pay people can still get most everything except a lifetime sub on PC, eventually.
I'm living proof of that. I ground out quite a few things, including the big packs I list in my sig. Hell I'm working on the 13th Anniversary Bundle right now. The only big pack I haven't gotten yet is the old Legacy of Romulus pack, which as of now holds no value for me because most of whats in it I already have separately.
i mean it DID gate the playerbase into 2 economic categories... people that wont put money into zen and now cant get zen because of how lopsided the dilex is currently. and players that will put money in for zen. a large swath of the playerbase especially newer players HAVE to put money in if they want to take part in most stuff going on in the exchange.
Even so, that's under the assumption that a large swath is going to do that, the people that do put money in is already a niche crowd, the majority of STO players are the ones that won't put money into Zen, which why it's lopsided, also New Players won't put Money into Zen either, it kind of comes of as Pay 2 Win and Pay 2 Win features tend to drive away NEW players, while the conversation works in their favor,
What if there was a way to make artificial Zen, use some of Dil code where it some of it doesn't require IRL money, where you can have a mass amount it automatically reproducing itself in game like Tribbles, but have locked on the Zen side, I originally thought that the DilEx was automatic and Zen was produced by the game itself, I later learned that it came from Players than a Computer,
To make it easier to understand, My Idea is that some of the Zen would be coming from a computer or an AI, rather making DilEx completely be ran by players.
EDIT: Also I want to say I said Tribbles, instead of censored word, so in context I was talking the literal furballs this time.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,521Community Moderator
While an interesting idea, the problem is that it does cut into Cryptic's income, which in turn will affect how much they can do making more missions and other things that we want in game. Yea it could stabilize the market a bit more by having occasional infusions of zen, but where is that zen coming from? Is it paid for already? To just generate it would be like printing money and giving it away. Cryptic doesn't get paid for that, which in turn doesn't fund game development.
I'm just as frustrated as everyone else on the state of the economy, as I am a regular exchange user myself, but I also understand that its far more complex and a magic bullet fix doesn't exist. As brought up in another thread on this subject, the issue isn't the supply of Dilithium as much anymore, but the DEMAND for Dilithium. We need things to spend Dilithium on that people WANT to spend it on. And something that is sustainable and not just kick the can down the road.
While an interesting idea, the problem is that it does cut into Cryptic's income, which in turn will affect how much they can do making more missions and other things that we want in game. Yea it could stabilize the market a bit more by having occasional infusions of zen, but where is that zen coming from? Is it paid for already? To just generate it would be like printing money and giving it away. Cryptic doesn't get paid for that, which in turn doesn't fund game development.
I'm just as frustrated as everyone else on the state of the economy, as I am a regular exchange user myself, but I also understand that its far more complex and a magic bullet fix doesn't exist. As brought up in another thread on this subject, the issue isn't the supply of Dilithium as much anymore, but the DEMAND for Dilithium. We need things to spend Dilithium on that people WANT to spend it on. And something that is sustainable and not just kick the can down the road.
Here's Some stuff that could cover the Dil Demand,
DSC Klingon BOFFs
Romulan Nemesis uniforms (The Romulan ones, not Reman ones),
2385 Picard Uniforms (Not to be confused with the 2399 Picard Uniforms that were freebies),
Cardassian Badges and Cardassian Ground weapons
Demand is usually either older canon stuff that's currently not in game or Something the NEWEST Treks recently introduces, for example look at all the Protostar demands the Nickelodeon show brought in.
When it comes to the Dilithium economy, something I've always wanted is the ability to buy out a ship's mastery. This would have the benefit of being repeatable both on a per-ship basis, and on a once-per-character basis for those who, like me, are constantly making more characters. It's also 100% optional, so F2Pers wouldn't feel like they're missing out on something by saving their dil to convert to Zen.
On it's own it wouldn't SOLVE the dil economy issues, but priced fairly I think it could help chip away at it when combined with other new sinks.
Romulan Nemesis uniforms (The Romulan ones, not Reman ones),
2385 Picard Uniforms (Not to be confused with the 2399 Picard Uniforms that were freebies)
I doubt they'll ever put uniforms in the dil store again, they tried that with the Ent MACO and TWoK Excursion and vest uniforms and almost no one bought them due to the astronomical price Cryptic felt was appropriate.
Lifetime Subscriber since Beta
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,521Community Moderator
Yea... uniforms won't go because no one wants to spend two million DL on a character unlock uniform. If they were in the Phoenix Box that would probably be more acceptable.
As for stuff from Prodigy... I think there's the added layer of Nickelodeon being involved on that one, which makes getting anything from that show a bit more interesting than just talking to CBS.
Yea... uniforms won't go because no one wants to spend two million DL on a character unlock uniform. If they were in the Phoenix Box that would probably be more acceptable.
As for stuff from Prodigy... I think there's the added layer of Nickelodeon being involved on that one, which makes getting anything from that show a bit more interesting than just talking to CBS.
Fine I'll stop pushing uniforms for Dil since they get overpriced, That still leaves DSC Klingon BOFFs and Cardassian Ground weapons, Picard Season 3 just came out what about selling stuff from that show's season for Dil?
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,521Community Moderator
Most of the time we don't get things fresh out of a new season as they prefer seeing everything first. That's why most of the time any new ships tend to lag behind the season in case an episode later on in the season shows an ability they could use as a console in game. We're only now getting things from season 2 with the current lockbox.
Ever since February 16th, the day the "A Good Day To Die!" event started, the Dilex has been on a steady path to recovery. It wen't from 5.1 m zen in the backlog to 4.1 m zen in the backlog in under a week. It seems that the reason for this is, as SOB predicted in his video about the State of the Economy, that bot accounts are no longer able to generate a surplus of dilithium. The reason for this would be the fact that the TFO "Defense of Starbase One" is not available on the Elite difficulty for the duration of this event.
Considering this evidence, I strongly believe that a change to the TFO "Defense of Starbase One" would play a significant role in recovering the dilithium exchange permanently.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator and Resident She-Wolf
Community Moderators are Unpaid Volunteers and NOT Employees of Gearbox/Cryptic
Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
I have a thought. Maybe take the most popular product that takes dilithium (Phoenix boxes for example) and increase or decrease the price to keep the market stable. Like the Federal Reserve is supposed to do with interest rates to try and control inflation. This will bleed off dilithium from the exchange and drop the price of zen. People will probably be mad that their Phoenix boxes cost more, but they'll be more happy when they can finally exchange their dilithium for Zen without having to wait months.
And as soon as you do that players buy less (or stop buying altogether, or even quit the game because they see the Devs punishing them for playing and making the Dil they earn worth less.)
You have to put more viable and consistent Dil sinks that aren't too expensive for what you get ; AND you have to make it for something the players will actually want to use in game or it will just sit there unused.
The problem is anytime they come up with something viable, I'm sure someone in marketing goes - "Hey, that's something players WOULD like...sell it for Zen instead..."
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Comments
The problem with the EC cap is pure player greed, and that's it. There is only two winners when it comes to buying keys to resell to buy an EC ship, and the person buying the ship really, really is not one of them. There are plenty of C-Store ships that can do the job of 'meta'. Buying a Lockbox ship nowadays is just for vanity, especially as those ships are ending up in Mudd's Store now as account unlocks.
Touching the 'value' or 'cap' of EC and Dil, and taking away Lobi from Lockboxes is shear suicide for the game. Cryptic are not going to do that.
Player Housing
when players build it up. the system gives them
ways to buy ,acc bound l.b. weapons
endevor progression
alt friendly progression for ,rep ,spelisation ,r&d ...
vehicles, that work on. larger ground and space maps. maybe improving on shuttle and ev systems
I've taken a T5 out and done content before in it with no problems.
I disagree with your suggestions. They're just not sensible and would just enrage people more if implemented.
Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
Moderation Problems/Issues? Please contact the Community Manager
Terms of Service / Community Rules and Policies / FCT
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Note to self.....never look confused thinking you posted stuff in another post like this whilst drinking
Yup, player housing, the one thing that everyone could access fairly, and keeps getting nixxed apparently. I appreciate it's a potential time-consuming task, but it's the one thing Cryptic could keep adding to that would 'regulate' the Dil-Ex fairly and consistently.
Have a look higher up...something interesting happened.
Most of the stuff players want are usually either placed in the C-Store, Lobi Consortium or in a Lockbox, which just devalues Dilithium as a whole, Dilithium is only valuable since it has the Zen conversation and you buy better stuff with Zen, if T6 ships, uniforms, vanity shields, ground weapons and ship consoles were placed in the Dil Market, then Dil would have a bit of value to them.
i mean it DID gate the playerbase into 2 economic categories... people that wont put money into zen and now cant get zen because of how lopsided the dilex is currently. and players that will put money in for zen. a large swath of the playerbase especially newer players HAVE to put money in if they want to take part in most stuff going on in the exchange.
no i was suggesting essentially forcibly removing EC on all fronts to try and reset the current obscene numbers on the exchange while implementing other changes. for example if you lower the 2 bill EC cap to 1 bill and chop the number of EC in half across the board in the economy it shrinks the gap between whales and not whales, and if things like admiralty stay the same it will be far more feasible but still time consuming to grind EC that way without dedicating your life to it or gambling with flipping exchange prices
also no it doesnt have to be "theft" it shouldnt be hard for cryptic to just make a zen claim package that if you have the cap increase unlocked you just get that zen back... why was your first instinct to say im suggesting steal value from paying players? the difference in EC cap doesnt help anyone. its a cheap package its an insignificant, *technically* non zero amount of money but its nothing compared to zen sales for keys, bundles, ships, upgrade tokens etc. it really doesnt make any sense for the EC cap item to exist anymore.. all it does is artificially separate free to player players from content because of the exchange inflation
Anyone can still get zen from dil farming, they just have to wait 3-4 weeks before the sale goes through.
Also, why shouldn't people who support the game by paying cash to Cryptic have things easier than people who want everything the game offers without contributing a dime?
Does the grocery store give you free food? Is your rent free if you are not still living at home? Is Netflix free if you don't "share passwords" or use torrents? No.
STO is nicer than that at least. Since the exchange does work (slowly) the never-pay people can still get most everything except a lifetime sub on PC, eventually.
And for most ships except the newest, you don't even need the dil exchange. I've gotten two free promo pack ships and am sitting on the token from Event Campaign 4, while 5 just started and includes all ships through the end of 2022.
I'm living proof of that. I ground out quite a few things, including the big packs I list in my sig. Hell I'm working on the 13th Anniversary Bundle right now. The only big pack I haven't gotten yet is the old Legacy of Romulus pack, which as of now holds no value for me because most of whats in it I already have separately.
Even so, that's under the assumption that a large swath is going to do that, the people that do put money in is already a niche crowd, the majority of STO players are the ones that won't put money into Zen, which why it's lopsided, also New Players won't put Money into Zen either, it kind of comes of as Pay 2 Win and Pay 2 Win features tend to drive away NEW players, while the conversation works in their favor,
What if there was a way to make artificial Zen, use some of Dil code where it some of it doesn't require IRL money, where you can have a mass amount it automatically reproducing itself in game like Tribbles, but have locked on the Zen side, I originally thought that the DilEx was automatic and Zen was produced by the game itself, I later learned that it came from Players than a Computer,
To make it easier to understand, My Idea is that some of the Zen would be coming from a computer or an AI, rather making DilEx completely be ran by players.
EDIT: Also I want to say I said Tribbles, instead of censored word, so in context I was talking the literal furballs this time.
I'm just as frustrated as everyone else on the state of the economy, as I am a regular exchange user myself, but I also understand that its far more complex and a magic bullet fix doesn't exist. As brought up in another thread on this subject, the issue isn't the supply of Dilithium as much anymore, but the DEMAND for Dilithium. We need things to spend Dilithium on that people WANT to spend it on. And something that is sustainable and not just kick the can down the road.
Here's Some stuff that could cover the Dil Demand,
DSC Klingon BOFFs
Romulan Nemesis uniforms (The Romulan ones, not Reman ones),
2385 Picard Uniforms (Not to be confused with the 2399 Picard Uniforms that were freebies),
Cardassian Badges and Cardassian Ground weapons
Demand is usually either older canon stuff that's currently not in game or Something the NEWEST Treks recently introduces, for example look at all the Protostar demands the Nickelodeon show brought in.
On it's own it wouldn't SOLVE the dil economy issues, but priced fairly I think it could help chip away at it when combined with other new sinks.
I doubt they'll ever put uniforms in the dil store again, they tried that with the Ent MACO and TWoK Excursion and vest uniforms and almost no one bought them due to the astronomical price Cryptic felt was appropriate.
As for stuff from Prodigy... I think there's the added layer of Nickelodeon being involved on that one, which makes getting anything from that show a bit more interesting than just talking to CBS.
Fine I'll stop pushing uniforms for Dil since they get overpriced, That still leaves DSC Klingon BOFFs and Cardassian Ground weapons, Picard Season 3 just came out what about selling stuff from that show's season for Dil?
Considering this evidence, I strongly believe that a change to the TFO "Defense of Starbase One" would play a significant role in recovering the dilithium exchange permanently.
What do you think of this?
(Video link removed. - BMR)
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And as soon as you do that players buy less (or stop buying altogether, or even quit the game because they see the Devs punishing them for playing and making the Dil they earn worth less.)
You have to put more viable and consistent Dil sinks that aren't too expensive for what you get ; AND you have to make it for something the players will actually want to use in game or it will just sit there unused.
The problem is anytime they come up with something viable, I'm sure someone in marketing goes - "Hey, that's something players WOULD like...sell it for Zen instead..."
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."