Adding an experimental weapon or secondary deflector would improve the carriers but not be game breaking.
I would prefer something different that a carbon copy of another vessel's feature.
Something unique to carriers. Other than the hard to use subsystem targeting, perhaps an ECM suite placating foes and an innate SST.
One massive weakness these days is that many foes spawn exotic damage and throw torpedo spreads across the map which just limits survivability for fighters and frigates.
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,579Community Moderator
Maybe a form of Point Defense? I know we have Point Defense consoles, but maybe something more carrier based like a flak field to deal with incoming targetable torpedoes. Or maybe a slot for new items that can augment hanger pets in some way that is similar to a Secondary Deflector or Experimental Weapon slot. We have traits that augment fighters based on what their carrier does with BOff abilities. So maybe we can do something along those lines.
Maybe a form of Point Defense? I know we have Point Defense consoles, but maybe something more carrier based like a flak field to deal with incoming targetable torpedoes. Or maybe a slot for new items that can augment hanger pets in some way that is similar to a Secondary Deflector or Experimental Weapon slot. We have traits that augment fighters based on what their carrier does with BOff abilities. So maybe we can do something along those lines.
Flak shield!? Of Course!! Gimme 2004 Galactica in-game and I'll never play another ship again. Get on the phone to Universal!
"You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
Full carriers definitely need something. I, as a ful carrier lover, just can't justify using one over an FDC. We've had a bit of a back and over it but with the exception of a fun build I just haven't heard a serious argument over why you would choose the former over the latter other than for a themed/fun build and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that! Hell, I still pull my Jupiter out of dry dock every now and again just because I love it! I think essentially the issue is that St the moment full carriers don't have anything unique to them (except occasional pets). They need something that other classes don't, at the minute they have nothing. The real thing full carrier pilots want is four hanger bays, but we know that realistically that isn't going to happen. Maybe triple bonus damage for pets at 4 starship experience? Something that makes them unique. At the moment they are fun, just fun.
Maybe a left turn as far as ideas are concerned, but what about a power where firing arc do not matter and all weapons can be equipped in every slot.
So in essence a full carrier could equip 6 DBB (or 6 Single cannons) and fire them 360degrees regardless of previous firing arc.
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
Full carriers definitely need something. I, as a ful carrier lover, just can't justify using one over an FDC. We've had a bit of a back and over it but with the exception of a fun build I just haven't heard a serious argument over why you would choose the former over the latter other than for a themed/fun build and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that! Hell, I still pull my Jupiter out of dry dock every now and again just because I love it! I think essentially the issue is that St the moment full carriers don't have anything unique to them (except occasional pets). They need something that other classes don't, at the minute they have nothing. The real thing full carrier pilots want is four hanger bays, but we know that realistically that isn't going to happen. Maybe triple bonus damage for pets at 4 starship experience? Something that makes them unique. At the moment they are fun, just fun.
Still don't get why so many people say this in regards to FDC's. I fully agree on the part of carriers need more love. There are serious arguments for using full carriers over FDC's the reason I justify full carriers is I can get far better pet damage then FDC's. Given the main point of carriers is pet damage that should be a justified reason to go full carrier over FDC.
Full carriers definitely need something. I, as a ful carrier lover, just can't justify using one over an FDC. We've had a bit of a back and over it but with the exception of a fun build I just haven't heard a serious argument over why you would choose the former over the latter other than for a themed/fun build and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that! Hell, I still pull my Jupiter out of dry dock every now and again just because I love it! I think essentially the issue is that St the moment full carriers don't have anything unique to them (except occasional pets). They need something that other classes don't, at the minute they have nothing. The real thing full carrier pilots want is four hanger bays, but we know that realistically that isn't going to happen. Maybe triple bonus damage for pets at 4 starship experience? Something that makes them unique. At the moment they are fun, just fun.
Still don't get why so many people say this in regards to FDC's. I fully agree on the part of carriers need more love. There are serious arguments for using full carriers over FDC's the reason I justify full carriers is I can get far better pet damage then FDC's. Given the main point of carriers is pet damage that should be a justified reason to go full carrier over FDC.
how do you get more damage? i havent seen anything about a carrier giving pets more power. if your talking consoles most are universal and can go on any ship
> @pottsey5g said: > Still don't get why so many people say this in regards to FDC's. I fully agree on the part of carriers need more love. There are serious arguments for using full carriers over FDC's the reason I justify full carriers is I can get far better pet damage then FDC's. Given the main point of carriers is pet damage that should be a justified reason to go full carrier over FDC.
In what way? What unique ability gives full carriers better pet damage than FDC's? I really can't see that ability anywhere. Even if they did give pets more damage (which they don't) it would have to be significantly more than FDCs to make them viable. Maybe three or four times more?
> @pottsey5g said:
> Still don't get why so many people say this in regards to FDC's. I fully agree on the part of carriers need more love. There are serious arguments for using full carriers over FDC's the reason I justify full carriers is I can get far better pet damage then FDC's. Given the main point of carriers is pet damage that should be a justified reason to go full carrier over FDC.
In what way? What unique ability gives full carriers better pet damage than FDC's? I really can't see that ability anywhere. Even if they did give pets more damage (which they don't) it would have to be significantly more than FDCs to make them viable. Maybe three or four times more?
i think you are right. after i read his post i went in game and looked all over for anything that let my carriers give my pets more power compared to my flight deck carrier and there is nothing
Because in some universes 2 extra weapons slots and superior maneuverability mean nothing.
if you REALLY want to give carriers an extra something, increase launch ranges by 30% for full carriers. how to do than and limit the pets on an FDC bight be a programming nightmare. the increased range would play into the real power projection ability of a carrier, reaching out and touching with the pets while the ships crew enjoys a hearty breakfast
> @vetteguy904 said: > Because in some universes 2 extra weapons slots and superior maneuverability mean nothing. > > if you REALLY want to give carriers an extra something, increase launch ranges by 30% for full carriers. how to do than and limit the pets on an FDC bight be a programming nightmare. the increased range would play into the real power projection ability of a carrier, reaching out and touching with the pets while the ships crew enjoys a hearty breakfast
In some universes maybe. But certainly not in STO. Those 5 forward weapon slots are HUGE. In any build. The only exception being dedicated science torp boats. An FDC is essentially a very slightly weaker version of a dedicated tac cruiser. Those weaknesses are restricted to starship mastery (FDC'S use basically a slightly improved tree over full carriers). So you have all the benefits of a carrier and a trivial disadvantage over a 5/3 dread in terms of firepower, and it is trivial.
There is NOTHING a full carrier can do that an FDC cannot. That's the issue.
> @pottsey5g said:
> Still don't get why so many people say this in regards to FDC's. I fully agree on the part of carriers need more love. There are serious arguments for using full carriers over FDC's the reason I justify full carriers is I can get far better pet damage then FDC's. Given the main point of carriers is pet damage that should be a justified reason to go full carrier over FDC.
In what way? What unique ability gives full carriers better pet damage than FDC's? I really can't see that ability anywhere. Even if they did give pets more damage (which they don't) it would have to be significantly more than FDCs to make them viable. Maybe three or four times more?
i think you are right. after i read his post i went in game and looked all over for anything that let my carriers give my pets more power compared to my flight deck carrier and there is nothing
> @pottsey5g said:
> Still don't get why so many people say this in regards to FDC's. I fully agree on the part of carriers need more love. There are serious arguments for using full carriers over FDC's the reason I justify full carriers is I can get far better pet damage then FDC's. Given the main point of carriers is pet damage that should be a justified reason to go full carrier over FDC.
In what way? What unique ability gives full carriers better pet damage than FDC's? I really can't see that ability anywhere. Even if they did give pets more damage (which they don't) it would have to be significantly more than FDCs to make them viable. Maybe three or four times more?
Well there is the Jupiter that has access to extra pet buffs, the Xindi Carrier there is the 20% pet firing haste option and the Romulan Carriers have much stronger base pets then what FDC’s can take.
My full Carriers are significantly better then the same build on FDC's. My Vorgon mine layer can kill faster then any FDC Mine Layer. My other carriers do more Pet DPS then FDC Pet builds.
Well there is the Jupiter that has access to extra pet buffs, the Xindi Carrier there is the 20% pet firing haste option and the Romulan Carriers have much stronger base pets then what FDC’s can take.
My full Carriers are significantly better then the same build on FDC's. My Vorgon mine layer can kill faster then any FDC Mine Layer. My other carriers do more Pet DPS then FDC Pet builds.
This post highlights the problem with full carriers which is that they can be a potent force, but it needs a lot of investment.
In addition traits like "feel the weight.." are locked on lobi ships. There is no low end efficient option available.
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
Well there is the Jupiter that has access to extra pet buffs, the Xindi Carrier there is the 20% pet firing haste option and the Romulan Carriers have much stronger base pets then what FDC’s can take.
My full Carriers are significantly better then the same build on FDC's. My Vorgon mine layer can kill faster then any FDC Mine Layer. My other carriers do more Pet DPS then FDC Pet builds.
This post highlights the problem with full carriers which is that they can be a potent force, but it needs a lot of investment.
In addition traits like "feel the weight.." are locked on lobi ships. There is no low end efficient option available.
Feel the Weight cost 4.5million which I would have thought was a cheap option? Not sure what is classed as a low end option. I reckon you could build a functional Carrier with Carrier traits and Carrier consoles for 100million perhaps 150million depending item price flux changes week to week. Which I didn't think was classed as much money these days.
The core carrier traits I use are mostly all personal traits or free to get starship traits which are all surprising cheap to get. Carrier Consoles are more tricky Swamer Matrix one of the better consoles is cheap, all the rest are locked behind reward or rare ships Consoles seem to be the problem over traits.
Running this very quickly in my head. It might even be possible to build a base carrier for under 50million.
Saying this, I do not disagree on the lack of options, just wondering out loud how effective one could build a carrier on a budget.
> @pottsey5g said: > Well there is the Jupiter that has access to extra pet buffs, the Xindi Carrier there is the 20% pet firing haste option and the Romulan Carriers have much stronger base pets then what FDC’s can take. > > My full Carriers are significantly better then the same build on FDC's. My Vorgon mine layer can kill faster then any FDC Mine Layer. My other carriers do more Pet DPS then FDC Pet builds.
Do you mean the Universal Fleet matrix on the Jupiter? +10% accuracy (useless) and +15% shields (more than useless) and adds 20% bonus damage to the team for 15 seconds (nice). There are literally hundreds of consoles that are better than that, I'd never waste a console slot on that unless it was for the theme. I certainly don't equip it on my Jupe.
For the Briostrys you are talking about a 20% firing haste (which is excellent) as a set 3 bonus! You have to place three fairly lackluster consoles to get that AND it can only be used on Xindi carriers! Again, great for a theme build, terrible for an effective build.
As for minelaying, we'll as I said, that sounds like a fun build but it really has nothing to do with the argument. I could run exactly the same build on an FDC with 2 extra fore weapons and an extra top tier console.
As to Romulan Carriers, which base pets? Scorpions? They are good but they are no Alliance Fighters, or even mirror shuttles. Hell even temporal shuttles and Delta flyers leave them lacking.
Even if any of those abilities were available to FDCs I wouldn't take any of them, not by a long shot in fact. I know I'm coming across as a bit of an TRIBBLE for shooting you down and I don't mean to but I'm still far from convinced as to why I should pick a carrier over an FDC. All you have is a few specific consoles and none of them I would use on my full carriers anyway. As for pets, again there are a few unique pets that are specific to certain carriers but none are better than the current meta (Alliance Fighters/SAD). Even if carriers had access to amazing pets that FDCs didn't (not a bad idea) they would have to be MUCH better, like 4 times betterto make the carrier a viable alternative.
> “As to Romulan Carriers, which base pets? Scorpions? They are good but they are no Alliance Fighters, or even mirror shuttles. Hell even temporal shuttles and Delta flyers leave them lacking.”
Scorpion Squadrons are massively better then temporal shuttles and Delta flyers and I would argue when buffed up I would prefer them over Alliance fighters. All 3 types of Scorpions can be buffed by consoles and traits while Alliance, temporal shuttles and Delta flyers as far as I recall cannot be buffed by consoles and traits outside of the typical carrier ones. A lot of people underestimate Scorpion’s as not only can they be buffed further but some of the damage comes under player damage instead of pet DPS and so you have to manually add the relevant player DPS to the pet DPS to get a true measure of performance.
> “As for minelaying, we'll as I said, that sounds like a fun build but it really has nothing to do with the argument. I could run exactly the same build on an FDC with 2 extra fore weapons and an extra top tier console.”
You could run the same build but it would not work as well on the FDC. If both ships are the same distance away from the target, then the Vorgon would kill the target before the FDC. What use is 2 extra fore weapons if the target is already dead before those extra weapons can hit? Destructible Torpedo builds and Mine Layer builds are unrivalled on buffed Vorgon ships for the speed from ship to target. FDC’s just cannot keep up for this type of build. If we are talking Energy weapons as primary for the build go FDC all the way but personally I don’t use energy builds so I see zero advantage to use a FDC over full carrier. For none energy builds I much prefer full carriers.
> “I know I'm coming across as a bit of an TRIBBLE for shooting you down”
You are not coming across as a bit of a TRIBBLE, I find your posts respectable and I think the disagreement is we have differing ideas of what meta is. Which leads me onto “As for pets, again there are a few unique pets that are specific to certain carriers but none are better than the current meta (Alliance Fighters/SAD)”
Alliance Fighters/SAD is not meta in my mind. The main reason people use Alliance is for team support while also doing good DPS. There are better pets for team support and there are better pets for DPS output. The main use of Alliance fighters is if you want good DPS output and good support in one package but not the best of either.
I can get more DPS out of Frigate Droneships without SAD then Alliance do with SAD. In a random none nanny group don't Alliance only do something like was it 60k or 80k for 2 bays? Been a while since I used them. Alliance pets are good DPS but not top end DPS.
> @pottsey5g said:
> My other carriers do more Pet DPS then FDC Pet builds.
How? That's all I'm asking! How? A full carrier has zero abilities, even in starship mastery, that gives their pets more damage than an FDC.
Xindi Carriers pets can fire up to 20% faster due to the console set. Romulan full Carriers have access to Frigates that are more powerful then the best pets you can fit in a FDC. The Jupiter can apply a 20% higher pet damage boost then a FDC can pull off due to the Jupiter console. I have a Jupiter pet build based around Unconventional Systems trait with all the pet consoles fitted this type of builds works better on a Jupiter then a FDC for a pet focused build.
Post edited by pottsey5g on
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,579Community Moderator
I think at this point people might just need to remember... its a game. Fun is not wrong. Just because its not the absolute best in slot doesn't mean its totally useless.
In my experience, STO has so much more leeway and options than most games when it comes to build freedom. The issue seems to be what is "best" vs what is "fun". And everyone is different.
Overall yes, full standard carriers do lag behind other carrier variants somewhat, but they are by no means useless. People have made them work, and they are having fun.
> @pottsey5g said:
> Still don't get why so many people say this in regards to FDC's. I fully agree on the part of carriers need more love. There are serious arguments for using full carriers over FDC's the reason I justify full carriers is I can get far better pet damage then FDC's. Given the main point of carriers is pet damage that should be a justified reason to go full carrier over FDC.
In what way? What unique ability gives full carriers better pet damage than FDC's? I really can't see that ability anywhere. Even if they did give pets more damage (which they don't) it would have to be significantly more than FDCs to make them viable. Maybe three or four times more?
i think you are right. after i read his post i went in game and looked all over for anything that let my carriers give my pets more power compared to my flight deck carrier and there is nothing
> @pottsey5g said:
> Still don't get why so many people say this in regards to FDC's. I fully agree on the part of carriers need more love. There are serious arguments for using full carriers over FDC's the reason I justify full carriers is I can get far better pet damage then FDC's. Given the main point of carriers is pet damage that should be a justified reason to go full carrier over FDC.
In what way? What unique ability gives full carriers better pet damage than FDC's? I really can't see that ability anywhere. Even if they did give pets more damage (which they don't) it would have to be significantly more than FDCs to make them viable. Maybe three or four times more?
Well there is the Jupiter that has access to extra pet buffs, the Xindi Carrier there is the 20% pet firing haste option and the Romulan Carriers have much stronger base pets then what FDC’s can take.
My full Carriers are significantly better then the same build on FDC's. My Vorgon mine layer can kill faster then any FDC Mine Layer. My other carriers do more Pet DPS then FDC Pet builds.
i have the t6 xindi carrier nowhere does it say pets get 20% firing haste
> @pottsey5g said:
> Still don't get why so many people say this in regards to FDC's. I fully agree on the part of carriers need more love. There are serious arguments for using full carriers over FDC's the reason I justify full carriers is I can get far better pet damage then FDC's. Given the main point of carriers is pet damage that should be a justified reason to go full carrier over FDC.
In what way? What unique ability gives full carriers better pet damage than FDC's? I really can't see that ability anywhere. Even if they did give pets more damage (which they don't) it would have to be significantly more than FDCs to make them viable. Maybe three or four times more?
i think you are right. after i read his post i went in game and looked all over for anything that let my carriers give my pets more power compared to my flight deck carrier and there is nothing
> @pottsey5g said:
> Still don't get why so many people say this in regards to FDC's. I fully agree on the part of carriers need more love. There are serious arguments for using full carriers over FDC's the reason I justify full carriers is I can get far better pet damage then FDC's. Given the main point of carriers is pet damage that should be a justified reason to go full carrier over FDC.
In what way? What unique ability gives full carriers better pet damage than FDC's? I really can't see that ability anywhere. Even if they did give pets more damage (which they don't) it would have to be significantly more than FDCs to make them viable. Maybe three or four times more?
Well there is the Jupiter that has access to extra pet buffs, the Xindi Carrier there is the 20% pet firing haste option and the Romulan Carriers have much stronger base pets then what FDC’s can take.
My full Carriers are significantly better then the same build on FDC's. My Vorgon mine layer can kill faster then any FDC Mine Layer. My other carriers do more Pet DPS then FDC Pet builds.
i have the t6 xindi carrier nowhere does it say pets get 20% firing haste
Its under Swarm Efficiency on the console set. 20% firing haste for energy weapons only, for the Xindi carrier pets. EDIT: Its kind of fun with a Friagte +Wingmate + Beam Overload carrier trait build.
> @whistlerdavid said:
> i think making the first trait on carriers should also add 25% damage for pets
Make it 50% and I'm sold.
i dont know about 50%. my terran shuttle crafts melt almost everything especially when they get all their tractor beams lock on an enemy with me just useing that console that give +30%
> @whistlerdavid said: > i dont know about 50%. my terran shuttle crafts melt almost everything especially when they get all their tractor beams lock on an enemy with me just useing that console that give +30%
> @whistlerdavid said:
> i think making the first trait on carriers should also add 25% damage for pets
Make it 50% and I'm sold.
i dont know about 50%. my terran shuttle crafts melt almost everything especially when they get all their tractor beams lock on an enemy with me just useing that console that give +30%
Is that on normal? On harder settings terran shuttle craft are not that great doing relatively low damage output. On Elite 50% shouldn't be overpowered for terran shuttles. If your not running buffs, terran shuttles are one of the better craft to use.
Given how far down the charts tarren shuttles are I am not to concerned with them getting a 50% damage buff. I would be more concerned what the top end pets do with buffs and a 50% damage boost over the lower end pets like terran shuttles or the mid range damage pets alike Alliance Fighters.
EDIT: We need to make sure an buffs or polish to carriers doesn't make the top end too overpowered. Its alright bringing up the bottom end but not if the top end gets too good.
Comments
I would prefer something different that a carbon copy of another vessel's feature.
Something unique to carriers. Other than the hard to use subsystem targeting, perhaps an ECM suite placating foes and an innate SST.
One massive weakness these days is that many foes spawn exotic damage and throw torpedo spreads across the map which just limits survivability for fighters and frigates.
Flak shield!? Of Course!! Gimme 2004 Galactica in-game and I'll never play another ship again. Get on the phone to Universal!
So in essence a full carrier could equip 6 DBB (or 6 Single cannons) and fire them 360degrees regardless of previous firing arc.
> Still don't get why so many people say this in regards to FDC's. I fully agree on the part of carriers need more love. There are serious arguments for using full carriers over FDC's the reason I justify full carriers is I can get far better pet damage then FDC's. Given the main point of carriers is pet damage that should be a justified reason to go full carrier over FDC.
In what way? What unique ability gives full carriers better pet damage than FDC's? I really can't see that ability anywhere. Even if they did give pets more damage (which they don't) it would have to be significantly more than FDCs to make them viable. Maybe three or four times more?
if you REALLY want to give carriers an extra something, increase launch ranges by 30% for full carriers. how to do than and limit the pets on an FDC bight be a programming nightmare. the increased range would play into the real power projection ability of a carrier, reaching out and touching with the pets while the ships crew enjoys a hearty breakfast
> Because in some universes 2 extra weapons slots and superior maneuverability mean nothing.
>
> if you REALLY want to give carriers an extra something, increase launch ranges by 30% for full carriers. how to do than and limit the pets on an FDC bight be a programming nightmare. the increased range would play into the real power projection ability of a carrier, reaching out and touching with the pets while the ships crew enjoys a hearty breakfast
In some universes maybe. But certainly not in STO. Those 5 forward weapon slots are HUGE. In any build. The only exception being dedicated science torp boats. An FDC is essentially a very slightly weaker version of a dedicated tac cruiser. Those weaknesses are restricted to starship mastery (FDC'S use basically a slightly improved tree over full carriers). So you have all the benefits of a carrier and a trivial disadvantage over a 5/3 dread in terms of firepower, and it is trivial.
There is NOTHING a full carrier can do that an FDC cannot. That's the issue.
Well there is the Jupiter that has access to extra pet buffs, the Xindi Carrier there is the 20% pet firing haste option and the Romulan Carriers have much stronger base pets then what FDC’s can take.
My full Carriers are significantly better then the same build on FDC's. My Vorgon mine layer can kill faster then any FDC Mine Layer. My other carriers do more Pet DPS then FDC Pet builds.
This post highlights the problem with full carriers which is that they can be a potent force, but it needs a lot of investment.
In addition traits like "feel the weight.." are locked on lobi ships. There is no low end efficient option available.
The core carrier traits I use are mostly all personal traits or free to get starship traits which are all surprising cheap to get. Carrier Consoles are more tricky Swamer Matrix one of the better consoles is cheap, all the rest are locked behind reward or rare ships
Running this very quickly in my head. It might even be possible to build a base carrier for under 50million.
Saying this, I do not disagree on the lack of options, just wondering out loud how effective one could build a carrier on a budget.
> Well there is the Jupiter that has access to extra pet buffs, the Xindi Carrier there is the 20% pet firing haste option and the Romulan Carriers have much stronger base pets then what FDC’s can take.
>
> My full Carriers are significantly better then the same build on FDC's. My Vorgon mine layer can kill faster then any FDC Mine Layer. My other carriers do more Pet DPS then FDC Pet builds.
Do you mean the Universal Fleet matrix on the Jupiter? +10% accuracy (useless) and +15% shields (more than useless) and adds 20% bonus damage to the team for 15 seconds (nice). There are literally hundreds of consoles that are better than that, I'd never waste a console slot on that unless it was for the theme. I certainly don't equip it on my Jupe.
For the Briostrys you are talking about a 20% firing haste (which is excellent) as a set 3 bonus! You have to place three fairly lackluster consoles to get that AND it can only be used on Xindi carriers! Again, great for a theme build, terrible for an effective build.
As for minelaying, we'll as I said, that sounds like a fun build but it really has nothing to do with the argument. I could run exactly the same build on an FDC with 2 extra fore weapons and an extra top tier console.
As to Romulan Carriers, which base pets? Scorpions? They are good but they are no Alliance Fighters, or even mirror shuttles. Hell even temporal shuttles and Delta flyers leave them lacking.
Even if any of those abilities were available to FDCs I wouldn't take any of them, not by a long shot in fact. I know I'm coming across as a bit of an TRIBBLE for shooting you down and I don't mean to but I'm still far from convinced as to why I should pick a carrier over an FDC. All you have is a few specific consoles and none of them I would use on my full carriers anyway. As for pets, again there are a few unique pets that are specific to certain carriers but none are better than the current meta (Alliance Fighters/SAD). Even if carriers had access to amazing pets that FDCs didn't (not a bad idea) they would have to be MUCH better, like 4 times betterto make the carrier a viable alternative.
> not very good at picking up sarcasm I see
Must be my Vulcan heritage.
> My other carriers do more Pet DPS then FDC Pet builds.
How? That's all I'm asking! How? A full carrier has zero abilities, even in starship mastery, that gives their pets more damage than an FDC.
Scorpion Squadrons are massively better then temporal shuttles and Delta flyers and I would argue when buffed up I would prefer them over Alliance fighters. All 3 types of Scorpions can be buffed by consoles and traits while Alliance, temporal shuttles and Delta flyers as far as I recall cannot be buffed by consoles and traits outside of the typical carrier ones. A lot of people underestimate Scorpion’s as not only can they be buffed further but some of the damage comes under player damage instead of pet DPS and so you have to manually add the relevant player DPS to the pet DPS to get a true measure of performance.
You could run the same build but it would not work as well on the FDC. If both ships are the same distance away from the target, then the Vorgon would kill the target before the FDC. What use is 2 extra fore weapons if the target is already dead before those extra weapons can hit? Destructible Torpedo builds and Mine Layer builds are unrivalled on buffed Vorgon ships for the speed from ship to target. FDC’s just cannot keep up for this type of build. If we are talking Energy weapons as primary for the build go FDC all the way but personally I don’t use energy builds so I see zero advantage to use a FDC over full carrier. For none energy builds I much prefer full carriers.
You are not coming across as a bit of a TRIBBLE, I find your posts respectable and I think the disagreement is we have differing ideas of what meta is. Which leads me onto “As for pets, again there are a few unique pets that are specific to certain carriers but none are better than the current meta (Alliance Fighters/SAD)”
Alliance Fighters/SAD is not meta in my mind. The main reason people use Alliance is for team support while also doing good DPS. There are better pets for team support and there are better pets for DPS output. The main use of Alliance fighters is if you want good DPS output and good support in one package but not the best of either.
I can get more DPS out of Frigate Droneships without SAD then Alliance do with SAD. In a random none nanny group don't Alliance only do something like was it 60k or 80k for 2 bays? Been a while since I used them. Alliance pets are good DPS but not top end DPS.
In my experience, STO has so much more leeway and options than most games when it comes to build freedom. The issue seems to be what is "best" vs what is "fun". And everyone is different.
Overall yes, full standard carriers do lag behind other carrier variants somewhat, but they are by no means useless. People have made them work, and they are having fun.
> i think making the first trait on carriers should also add 25% damage for pets
Make it 50% and I'm sold.
i dont know about 50%. my terran shuttle crafts melt almost everything especially when they get all their tractor beams lock on an enemy with me just useing that console that give +30%
> i dont know about 50%. my terran shuttle crafts melt almost everything especially when they get all their tractor beams lock on an enemy with me just useing that console that give +30%
They are beasts. No doubt about that.
Given how far down the charts tarren shuttles are I am not to concerned with them getting a 50% damage buff. I would be more concerned what the top end pets do with buffs and a 50% damage boost over the lower end pets like terran shuttles or the mid range damage pets alike Alliance Fighters.
EDIT: We need to make sure an buffs or polish to carriers doesn't make the top end too overpowered. Its alright bringing up the bottom end but not if the top end gets too good.