IMO we need more spec trees. Rather than a vertical growth we need more lateral. Problem is some of us who have our spec trees filled out completely probably have enough spec points stockpiled to fill out another tree.
I wish they had added the specialisations as entirely new classes. So that you could either be a tac, eng, sci or temporal operative for example.
They could have used them to really expand the game. Instead spec trees work much the same like trait slots and offer some additional kit module options.
IMO we need more spec trees. Rather than a vertical growth we need more lateral. Problem is some of us who have our spec trees filled out completely probably have enough spec points stockpiled to fill out another tree.
I wish they had added the specialisations as entirely new classes. So that you could either be a tac, eng, sci or temporal operative for example.
They could have used them to really expand the game. Instead spec trees work much the same like trait slots and offer some additional kit module options.
Except we all become temporal operatives already, and we all have our career twist on this, so it's a bit of a moot suggestion.
"You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,579Community Moderator
Starfleet also doesn't have "Temporal Operative" as a career path even in canon. While there is a Department of Temporal Investigations, its not exactly something you get into through Starfleet Academy like going into Science/Medical, Engineering/Operations, or Command tracks.
IMO we need more spec trees. Rather than a vertical growth we need more lateral. Problem is some of us who have our spec trees filled out completely probably have enough spec points stockpiled to fill out another tree.
I wish they had added the specialisations as entirely new classes. So that you could either be a tac, eng, sci or temporal operative for example.
They could have used them to really expand the game. Instead spec trees work much the same like trait slots and offer some additional kit module options.
Except we all become temporal operatives already, and we all have our career twist on this, so it's a bit of a moot suggestion.
True, but it's not really an entirely different career that you choose the moment you create your character.
Just saying that the game might benefit from more career paths. Even if they're not 'canon', cause STO has taken the necessary liberties to diverge from canon in many cases when it was required for gameplay reasons.
Hence why we have Sovereign classes that have nearly the same number of weapons as a Scimitar for example. Or why engineers with the rank of admiral can command a starship despite not being even part of or wearing the colours of the command division.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,579Community Moderator
Hence why we have Sovereign classes that have nearly the same number of weapons as a Scimitar for example. Or why engineers with the rank of admiral can command a starship despite not being even part of or wearing the colours of the command division.
Here's the thing... we have seen characters who have switched tracks and gone on to become Starship Captains. The biggest two being Janeway (Notably served as the Science Officer aboard the Al Batani) and The Sisko (Has a background in Engineering and was the lead designer of the Defiant Class). Hell... we WATCHED Worf switch from Operations to Command in DS9! And we've seen instances of La Forge being a starship Captain, and are about to see him as a Flag Officer in Picard s3.
It is not unheard of for characters who didn't START in the Command track to switch to the Command Track. Technically we could also include Spock since he started in a Science Blue uniform, but by Wrath of Khan was wearing Command colors.
Haven't there also been gaps between updates in Endeavors when people could catch up? At least a little anyway?
Yes there has. They have only increased the level limit once.
Twice.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,579Community Moderator
Haven't there also been gaps between updates in Endeavors when people could catch up? At least a little anyway?
Yes there has. They have only increased the level limit once.
Twice.
50-60 in Delta Rising, and I believe 60-65 later (I wanna say ViL but I feel like we had that before ViL...)
Talking Endeavours, not Rank folks.
"You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
I was talking Endeavor levels as well - they've raised the Endeavour Levels TWICE since the system was first added.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
> @firebeard#3273 said: > I understand the OP's point. > > Since sizable portion of a Player's output comes from said Perks, this could have negative impact from a Player perspective.
If a sizable portion of your DPS is coming from your endeavors, you are probably doing something wrong.
My best DPS builds only do about 70-80k DPS. My straight Barbie builds will do closer to 20k. This is from the equipment not the endeavors.
Look at @protoneous he is a really good player even with only 160 endeavor rank he is going to outperform me any day of the week—and I’m over 450.
If you really think you need the endeavor system role a bunch of Klingon recruits. You can grind out an extra 10 levels per toon. So if you made five that’s an additional 50. It would take probably 2-3 months per toon, but that could help you “catch up”
The only really useful modifiers are the dmg and crt bonuses anyway. Everything else is just filler.
> @firebeard#3273 said:
> I understand the OP's point.
>
> Since sizable portion of a Player's output comes from said Perks, this could have negative impact from a Player perspective.
If a sizable portion of your DPS is coming from your endeavors, you are probably doing something wrong.
My best DPS builds only do about 70-80k DPS. My straight Barbie builds will do closer to 20k. This is from the equipment not the endeavors.
Look at @protoneous he is a really good player even with only 160 endeavor rank he is going to outperform me any day of the week—and I’m over 450.
If you really think you need the endeavor system role a bunch of Klingon recruits. You can grind out an extra 10 levels per toon. So if you made five that’s an additional 50. It would take probably 2-3 months per toon, but that could help you “catch up”
The only really useful modifiers are the dmg and crt bonuses anyway. Everything else is just filler.
That's very kind, but I'm not a particularly good player. I'm fortunate to have gotten some good advice from folks both here and in-game who were very patient with my exceptional stubbornness. All that was needed was a decision on my part to take some of that advice to heart and try different things.
The game really seems to reward all the basics that get talked about so often. Practice too I don't think a high endeavor rank is in any way needed to do well in-game.
I was talking Endeavor levels as well - they've raised the Endeavour Levels TWICE since the system was first added.
Yes you are correct.
Went from 450 to 600 first time they raised it.
Second time went from 600 to 750..
When did that happen!? Can't believed I missed something...
"You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
There was no blog, nothing released in patch notes other than Kael making a passing comment that they were looking into increasing the rank amount as many players were nearing the 600.
The problem is that I don't have the time everyday to do endavours. I'd be able to do bulk amount of that every now and then though. The Endeavor system is designed to make players drop their lives and stick to the game for hours everyday. WHile some people are willing to fall for it, majority I belive will not take that bait and thus will never never be able to take advantage of the endeavor system. That's just as simple as that.
The problem is that I don't have the time everyday to do endavours. I'd be able to do bulk amount of that every now and then though. The Endeavor system is designed to make players drop their lives and stick to the game for hours everyday. WHile some people are willing to fall for it, majority I belive will not take that bait and thus will never never be able to take advantage of the endeavor system. That's just as simple as that.
What on earth are you doing and what kind of build are you running that it takes you hours each day to complete endeavors? At most it's only ever taken me an hour. If you don't like the current endeavors you can reroll them to something else. You are also under no obligation to do the endeavors every single day either. If you do then that's a choice you as a person made, the game didn't force you to do it. You will always be able to complete your endeavors whether you do it today or tomorrow. You don't have to hit max rank in a day.
Next, again if you're more worried about this game than taking care of your real life responsibilities, you don't need to be playing this game and you need to reexamine your priorities. If you are not willing to put in the work necessary to unlock the endeavor points, why would you be allowed to benefit from them? That's the same logic as not doing your job and expecting your boss to still pay you for it.
"Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations
Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,579Community Moderator
I also have to question the "hours" argument. I can get the space damage endeavors done in a couple minutes. Ground takes a few minutes... the only one that takes more time is when you gotta do TFOs. Not only that... you are not required to do them every day. They aren't designed to "force" anything.
The problem is that I don't have the time everyday to do endavours. I'd be able to do bulk amount of that every now and then though. The Endeavor system is designed to make players drop their lives and stick to the game for hours everyday. WHile some people are willing to fall for it, majority I belive will not take that bait and thus will never never be able to take advantage of the endeavor system. That's just as simple as that.
The system has been in place for a few years, and people have maxed it, and it's level cap has been raised twice. You make it sound like a conspiracy, but you are so wrong. It's for those who want to take advantage of it, and it's FREE, and you're not forced to do anything in it. Folk are not spending their lifes doing them because they take minutes, upto half an hour if TFO's are involved. Also, hilst this can add many consoles' worth of stat boosts, you don't need to do this to be effective in TFO's and missions. The problem is you've selected a difficulty you are not ready for. Reduce difficulty to Normal and just enjoy the game like the majority of us actually do. You can focus on getting 'more powa' once you are ready then.
"You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
The problem is that I don't have the time everyday to do endavours. I'd be able to do bulk amount of that every now and then though. The Endeavor system is designed to make players drop their lives and stick to the game for hours everyday. WHile some people are willing to fall for it, majority I belive will not take that bait and thus will never never be able to take advantage of the endeavor system. That's just as simple as that.
Do you need some help as I do the personal Endeavours in my 30min lunch break and more often then not complete them in 15min or less with a rare reroll. The Universal more often then not as I don't find is worth while.
You have the endeavour system wrong. Its not to make people drop their lives and stick to the game for hours everyday. Endeavours are to give people an optional fast task every day. Endeavours are to give players something to do when they have already finished all the core content. While I want to see some improvements like Carrier perks in Endeavours the Endeavour system is one of the best things the devs have done.
The problem is that I don't have the time everyday to do endavours. I'd be able to do bulk amount of that every now and then though. The Endeavor system is designed to make players drop their lives and stick to the game for hours everyday. WHile some people are willing to fall for it, majority I belive will not take that bait and thus will never never be able to take advantage of the endeavor system. That's just as simple as that.
They're pretty easy on the whole and often the dailies synergise with each other and can be done together very quickly. Even if not, switching equipment, ships or characters to fit the requirements doesn't take long.
On top of that, there are many tips for completing endeavours more quickly than you might anticipate.
For example, if you get the Very Rare "harvest materials six times on the ground" you don't need to go running around different ground maps searching for nodes. Instead fire up "Sphere Of Influence," beam in the to initial location, harvest the node in front of you, abort the mission and repeat another five times as the node respawns. Done within five minutes.
For example, if you get the Very Rare "harvest materials six times on the ground" you don't need to go running around different ground maps searching for nodes. Instead fire up "Sphere Of Influence," beam in the to initial location, harvest the node in front of you, abort the mission and repeat another five times as the node respawns. Done within five minutes.
I use Cold Comfort myself. Beam down, get both nodes, beam up, rinse and repeat as needed. And since its one of the few non combat missions...
For example, if you get the Very Rare "harvest materials six times on the ground" you don't need to go running around different ground maps searching for nodes. Instead fire up "Sphere Of Influence," beam in the to initial location, harvest the node in front of you, abort the mission and repeat another five times as the node respawns. Done within five minutes.
I use Cold Comfort myself. Beam down, get both nodes, beam up, rinse and repeat as needed. And since its one of the few non combat missions...
I use Diplomatic Orders (Immunity?) for this also.
Now a LTS and loving it.
Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.
I have come to the conclusion that I have a memory like Etch-A-Sketch. I shake my head and forget everything.
I use Cold Comfort myself. Beam down, get both nodes, beam up, rinse and repeat as needed. And since its one of the few non combat missions...
^^^
Yep, that's my go to for the ground Harvest Endeavour when it pops.
I also have numerous game missions kept at a certain point to get the 'Kill X' endeavors. It's rare that I spend more than 15 - 30 minutes a session getting all 3 done. And if there are endeavors that I know take a LONG time that I can't reroll (I refuse to spend any Dill for reroll tokens at the ROI just isn't worth it IMO) - then I just skip those for that day. Same with the Universal endeavor; if it's something I don't like doing, or its one I know is a time sink, I'll skip it entirely are it provides the least endeavor EXP, and honestly none of the Endeavor rewards you get from the boxes are really worth much. If you really decide to farm DIL or EC or Crafting Mats there are plenty of methods that give you a better result for the time invested.
When I was at the Endeavor Space and Ground caps previously, I never bothered with then again (unless it was one of the ones you could easily finish doing something else, or a few simple clicks, as again the 'reward boxes' aren't a real incentive on their own.
but yeah, if you're having to spend a lot of time completing them, you're doing it wrong.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
For example, if you get the Very Rare "harvest materials six times on the ground" you don't need to go running around different ground maps searching for nodes. Instead fire up "Sphere Of Influence," beam in the to initial location, harvest the node in front of you, abort the mission and repeat another five times as the node respawns. Done within five minutes.
There's a second Node in the next chamber beside the 2nd generator on the right side. This will likely save you a little more time if you also take it.
- - - - I n f e r i o r i t y - C o m p l e x - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The problem is that I don't have the time everyday to do endavours. I'd be able to do bulk amount of that every now and then though. The Endeavor system is designed to make players drop their lives and stick to the game for hours everyday. WHile some people are willing to fall for it, majority I belive will not take that bait and thus will never never be able to take advantage of the endeavor system. That's just as simple as that.
or, just do all three endevours every day. sure, you won't catch a player from Beta, but you SHOULDN'T.
...This system is just too much in favour of players who started the game years ago. It's time ti shift the balance. Old players aren't increasing in numbers, are they?
Nobody really knows what happens to old players
I think the system is in favour of players who play the game on a regular basis.
Pretty sure the largest gains I've personally seen haven't been endeavor rank related (am currently at about 160).
They are a great way to give any player something to shoot for (pun intended) over the long term.
Murdering the game's content is nothing more than practice and making many improvements over time.
I'd focus on the journey versus buying out the journey but that's just me.
As an old player, I can answer that. Some get bored of this and move on. I had maxed out Space and was close to maxing out Ground missions and they raised the caps. Yes that pissed me off and I stopped caring about grinding daily missions. It is no longer fun. I would take this one step further than the OP, who has some good suggestions, and say that the endeavor system needs a complete overhaul or trashing. My two cents…
Comments
I wish they had added the specialisations as entirely new classes. So that you could either be a tac, eng, sci or temporal operative for example.
They could have used them to really expand the game. Instead spec trees work much the same like trait slots and offer some additional kit module options.
Except we all become temporal operatives already, and we all have our career twist on this, so it's a bit of a moot suggestion.
True, but it's not really an entirely different career that you choose the moment you create your character.
Just saying that the game might benefit from more career paths. Even if they're not 'canon', cause STO has taken the necessary liberties to diverge from canon in many cases when it was required for gameplay reasons.
Hence why we have Sovereign classes that have nearly the same number of weapons as a Scimitar for example. Or why engineers with the rank of admiral can command a starship despite not being even part of or wearing the colours of the command division.
Here's the thing... we have seen characters who have switched tracks and gone on to become Starship Captains. The biggest two being Janeway (Notably served as the Science Officer aboard the Al Batani) and The Sisko (Has a background in Engineering and was the lead designer of the Defiant Class). Hell... we WATCHED Worf switch from Operations to Command in DS9! And we've seen instances of La Forge being a starship Captain, and are about to see him as a Flag Officer in Picard s3.
It is not unheard of for characters who didn't START in the Command track to switch to the Command Track. Technically we could also include Spock since he started in a Science Blue uniform, but by Wrath of Khan was wearing Command colors.
Twice.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
50-60 in Delta Rising, and I believe 60-65 later (I wanna say ViL but I feel like we had that before ViL...)
Talking Endeavours, not Rank folks.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Yes you are correct.
Went from 450 to 600 first time they raised it.
Second time went from 600 to 750..
> I understand the OP's point.
>
> Since sizable portion of a Player's output comes from said Perks, this could have negative impact from a Player perspective.
If a sizable portion of your DPS is coming from your endeavors, you are probably doing something wrong.
My best DPS builds only do about 70-80k DPS. My straight Barbie builds will do closer to 20k. This is from the equipment not the endeavors.
Look at @protoneous he is a really good player even with only 160 endeavor rank he is going to outperform me any day of the week—and I’m over 450.
If you really think you need the endeavor system role a bunch of Klingon recruits. You can grind out an extra 10 levels per toon. So if you made five that’s an additional 50. It would take probably 2-3 months per toon, but that could help you “catch up”
The only really useful modifiers are the dmg and crt bonuses anyway. Everything else is just filler.
That's very kind, but I'm not a particularly good player. I'm fortunate to have gotten some good advice from folks both here and in-game who were very patient with my exceptional stubbornness. All that was needed was a decision on my part to take some of that advice to heart and try different things.
The game really seems to reward all the basics that get talked about so often. Practice too
When did that happen!? Can't believed I missed something...
The increase from 600 to 750 occurred in September of this year.
There was no blog, nothing released in patch notes other than Kael making a passing comment that they were looking into increasing the rank amount as many players were nearing the 600.
What on earth are you doing and what kind of build are you running that it takes you hours each day to complete endeavors? At most it's only ever taken me an hour. If you don't like the current endeavors you can reroll them to something else. You are also under no obligation to do the endeavors every single day either. If you do then that's a choice you as a person made, the game didn't force you to do it. You will always be able to complete your endeavors whether you do it today or tomorrow. You don't have to hit max rank in a day.
Next, again if you're more worried about this game than taking care of your real life responsibilities, you don't need to be playing this game and you need to reexamine your priorities. If you are not willing to put in the work necessary to unlock the endeavor points, why would you be allowed to benefit from them? That's the same logic as not doing your job and expecting your boss to still pay you for it.
Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
The system has been in place for a few years, and people have maxed it, and it's level cap has been raised twice. You make it sound like a conspiracy, but you are so wrong. It's for those who want to take advantage of it, and it's FREE, and you're not forced to do anything in it. Folk are not spending their lifes doing them because they take minutes, upto half an hour if TFO's are involved. Also, hilst this can add many consoles' worth of stat boosts, you don't need to do this to be effective in TFO's and missions. The problem is you've selected a difficulty you are not ready for. Reduce difficulty to Normal and just enjoy the game like the majority of us actually do. You can focus on getting 'more powa' once you are ready then.
You have the endeavour system wrong. Its not to make people drop their lives and stick to the game for hours everyday. Endeavours are to give people an optional fast task every day. Endeavours are to give players something to do when they have already finished all the core content. While I want to see some improvements like Carrier perks in Endeavours the Endeavour system is one of the best things the devs have done.
They're pretty easy on the whole and often the dailies synergise with each other and can be done together very quickly. Even if not, switching equipment, ships or characters to fit the requirements doesn't take long.
On top of that, there are many tips for completing endeavours more quickly than you might anticipate.
For example, if you get the Very Rare "harvest materials six times on the ground" you don't need to go running around different ground maps searching for nodes. Instead fire up "Sphere Of Influence," beam in the to initial location, harvest the node in front of you, abort the mission and repeat another five times as the node respawns. Done within five minutes.
I use Cold Comfort myself. Beam down, get both nodes, beam up, rinse and repeat as needed. And since its one of the few non combat missions...
I use Diplomatic Orders (Immunity?) for this also.
Yep, that's my go to for the ground Harvest Endeavour when it pops.
I also have numerous game missions kept at a certain point to get the 'Kill X' endeavors. It's rare that I spend more than 15 - 30 minutes a session getting all 3 done. And if there are endeavors that I know take a LONG time that I can't reroll (I refuse to spend any Dill for reroll tokens at the ROI just isn't worth it IMO) - then I just skip those for that day. Same with the Universal endeavor; if it's something I don't like doing, or its one I know is a time sink, I'll skip it entirely are it provides the least endeavor EXP, and honestly none of the Endeavor rewards you get from the boxes are really worth much. If you really decide to farm DIL or EC or Crafting Mats there are plenty of methods that give you a better result for the time invested.
When I was at the Endeavor Space and Ground caps previously, I never bothered with then again (unless it was one of the ones you could easily finish doing something else, or a few simple clicks, as again the 'reward boxes' aren't a real incentive on their own.
but yeah, if you're having to spend a lot of time completing them, you're doing it wrong.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
I need like 30 mins to do all the 3 endeavours...
As an old player, I can answer that. Some get bored of this and move on. I had maxed out Space and was close to maxing out Ground missions and they raised the caps. Yes that pissed me off and I stopped caring about grinding daily missions. It is no longer fun. I would take this one step further than the OP, who has some good suggestions, and say that the endeavor system needs a complete overhaul or trashing. My two cents…
Yeah, to place them on a shelf in the mess hall you have zero reason to visit.