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Is it too soon to start posting our non Spoiler Picard S2 wishlists?

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  • orangenee#2931 orangenee Member Posts: 837 Arc User
    I've not seen Lower Decks or much from it so, I hadn't seen many ships from that.
  • rattler2rattler2 Member, Star Trek Online Moderator Posts: 58,940 Community Moderator
    strathkin wrote: »
    While I'm mixed if the Stargazer will be CSTORE or Promo Ship, I'd likely more agree with @rattler2 on that note being CSTORE likely. However given Dave called it a Hero Ship we might also see it for >6000 ZEN giving it Legendary status perhaps? I guess it really depends what Borg upgraded Technology they include with it, perhaps they'll bundle it with Legendary Sutherland Class next year or this?

    I feel like it will be C-Store since we don't have a T6. Not only that, with the recent revamp to the Cheyenne and Olympic models, it feels like a golden opportunity to make another 2 ship bundle like they did with the Saber and Nova. Knock out two ships that don't have a T6 in one go, both of which are Canon designs as well which is a draw for many people. To me the jump to Legendary doesn't make sense because we don't even have a T5 or T6 of her. Just T3s really. The Fleet T5s don't add anything but hull material. So ALL of the customization comes from stock T3 and one old C-Store T3. That is it. Most of the Legendaries have many variants. Sure one or two don't, but the majority do. And the fact we didn't get any new Legendaries with the Anniversary tells me they're slowing down on those at the very least.
    I've not seen Lower Decks or much from it so, I hadn't seen many ships from that.

    Only ship we have in game is the Parliment class, unless you count the T6 Luna. We've yet to get the California, and no word on the Obena yet.
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
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  • captainbrian11captainbrian11 Member Posts: 733 Arc User
    I wasn't aware the parliement was in game, lemme guess.. lockbox?
  • tom61stotom61sto Member Posts: 3,693 Arc User
    edited March 2022
    I wasn't aware the parliement was in game, lemme guess.. lockbox?

    Yep. A bizarre one at that, 2 Tac Console, 4/4, Lt. Tac Miracle Worker Cruiser. Not very popular due to the layout.

    https://sto.fandom.com/wiki/Parliament_Miracle_Worker_Surveyor_Cruiser
  • strathkinstrathkin Member Posts: 2,716 Bug Hunter
    rattler2 wrote: »
    I feel like it will be C-Store since we don't have a T6. Not only that, with the recent revamp to the Cheyenne and Olympic models, it feels like a golden opportunity to make another 2 ship bundle like they did with the Saber and Nova. Knock out two ships that don't have a T6 in one go, both of which are Canon designs as well which is a draw for many people.

    Well don't get me wrong, I do hope that you are correct.
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  • faelon#8433 faelon Member Posts: 362 Arc User
    I've not seen Lower Decks or much from it so, I hadn't seen many ships from that.

    It's actually given us a few decent ships. With some surprisingly decent designs for a cartoon. The California Class, which is the (unsung) Hero ship we've seen in 3 deco flavors. They actually have some color coding like the T5 Odyssey's had. But we've seen I think 4 Cali's. They gave us the Titan/Luna class first. The Parliament Class, a TOS Rommie BOP, a Ent style Vulcan ship. the Pakled ships, the Obena class.
  • captainbrian11captainbrian11 Member Posts: 733 Arc User
    tom61sto wrote: »
    I wasn't aware the parliement was in game, lemme guess.. lockbox?

    Yep. A bizarre one at that, 2 Tac Console, 4/4, Lt. Tac Miracle Worker Cruiser. Not very popular due to the layout.

    https://sto.fandom.com/wiki/Parliament_Miracle_Worker_Surveyor_Cruiser


    STO needs to stop putting ships from the new series exclusivly in lockboxes. given that there may be people specificly coming to the game from those series now that's REALLY dumb
  • tmassxtmassx Member Posts: 834 Arc User
    valoreah wrote: »
    I did not watch it personally but saw some reviewers playing clips on YouTube. The Borg Queen has a cape now? SMH I cannot wait to see Locutus V2 twirling his Borg mustache in his tuxedo and top hat.

    Now she looks like Cylon leader from old Battlestar Galactica 😀😈😀
  • evilmark444evilmark444 Member Posts: 7,016 Arc User
    STO needs to stop putting ships from the new series exclusivly in lockboxes. given that there may be people specificly coming to the game from those series
    That is exactly why they ARE putting them in lockboxes, because the new ships are highly desirable for fans of the new series and gambleboxes maximize their profits from said fans. The California class will be in a gamblebox as well eventually even though a C-Store 3-pack bundle (Tac, Eng, and Sci variants to match the division colors those ships have) would make more sense for that ship.
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  • faelon#8433 faelon Member Posts: 362 Arc User
    I wasn't aware the parliement was in game, lemme guess.. lockbox?
    Yes. Direct to Infinity Box. You don't see it much on the exchange, because while being a gorgeous ship for Space Barbie, it's seating and console layout is kind of bad. Like really bad. So there isn't a huge demand for it at high prices. It only has 2 Tac consoles and it's Tactical Seating is limited to Lt. With very little flexibility. Even given that it's a MW and you put a T6x on it for 2 Universal console slots you can only get 4 Tac consoles max. It has a Commander and Lt MW seat. No other spec. 4/4 weapons layout without any extras like a Hanger. It's a pretty ship. So it has that going for it.
  • faelon#8433 faelon Member Posts: 362 Arc User
    So ummm? Am I alone in thinking that there is no way in holy hell they’re ever going to give us “CSS” ship registry’s in game?
  • rattler2rattler2 Member, Star Trek Online Moderator Posts: 58,940 Community Moderator
    So ummm? Am I alone in thinking that there is no way in holy hell they’re ever going to give us “CSS” ship registry’s in game?

    I don't see why they wouldn't in some form if they made a Confederation variant ship like they did with the Mirror ships and their ISS prefix.

    You'd have to do some SERIOUS twisting to try and find something controvertial to make a wall against it, like trying to find some invisible link to the American Civil War or something. But considering when the divergence takes place, there's no connection between the two.
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
    normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
    colored text = mod mode
  • qultuqqultuq Member Posts: 989 Arc User
    edited March 2022
    > @rattler2 said:
    >
    > You'd have to do some SERIOUS twisting to try and find something controvertial to make a wall against it, like trying to find some invisible link to the American Civil War or something. But considering when the divergence takes place, there's no connection between the two.

    It’s not an invisible link. It’s an obvious link. It’s playing on a stereotype. Because one Confederation was “evil” the viewer is supposed to realize immediately that the Picard Confederation is also evil. It’s bad writing shorthand to play on pre-conceived biases of the viewer, so you don’t have to explain as much. They could have just as easily called the government “The evil empire,” or “New Putin State,” and had the same effect.
  • faelon#8433 faelon Member Posts: 362 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    So ummm? Am I alone in thinking that there is no way in holy hell they’re ever going to give us “CSS” ship registry’s in game?

    I don't see why they wouldn't in some form if they made a Confederation variant ship like they did with the Mirror ships and their ISS prefix.

    You'd have to do some SERIOUS twisting to try and find something controvertial to make a wall against it, like trying to find some invisible link to the American Civil War or something. But considering when the divergence takes place, there's no connection between the two.

    It’s not exactly invisible. During the US Civil War Confederate Navy Ships were “CSS”. With the most famous being CSS Virginia. The only way to make it more obvious would be to throw in a vanity shield that paints the ship orange and puts a Confederate Battle Flag on top of the hull. (Engaging Pilot Maneuvers triggers a special 20th century sound effect.)
  • evilmark444evilmark444 Member Posts: 7,016 Arc User
    qultuq wrote: »
    > rattler2 said:
    >
    > You'd have to do some SERIOUS twisting to try and find something controvertial to make a wall against it, like trying to find some invisible link to the American Civil War or something. But considering when the divergence takes place, there's no connection between the two.

    It’s not an invisible link. It’s an obvious link. It’s playing on a stereotype. Because one Confederation was “evil” the viewer is supposed to realize immediately that the Picard Confederation is also evil.

    I disagree. If they referred to them as the Confederacy then I might agree, but most people don't use the word Confederation when talking about the Confederate States of America. The most obvious alternative would have been Empire, but they are deliberately making this timeline distinct from the Mirror Universe and were probably concerned that people would get confused and think it was the Terran Empire if they used that.
    qultuq wrote: »
    It’s bad writing shorthand to play on pre-conceived biases of the viewer, so you don’t have to explain as much

    Except they showed PLENTY to demonstrate how bad this reality's human government is, they did not rely on any potential bias at all.

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  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 37,284 Arc User
    Meanwhile, I remember how there was a group in Starcraft literally called the Confederacy (okay, officially Terran Confederacy, but no one ever uses the official name) that used the actual CSA flag as their factional emblem - no changes whatsoever.

    You could get away with so much TRIBBLE in the 90s you wouldn't be able to today.​​
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  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 11,016 Arc User
    > @legendarylycan#5411 said:
    > Meanwhile, I remember how there was a group in Starcraft literally called the Confederacy (okay, officially Terran Confederacy, but no one ever uses the official name) that used the actual CSA flag as their factional emblem - no changes whatsoever.
    >
    > You could get away with so much TRIBBLE in the 90s you wouldn't be able to today.​​

    In Germany (and abroad in other countries I guess) the US Confederacy flag is (or used to be) displayed as 'wild-west romance'. Many people would display it, showing they like country music or like 'Cowboy themes'. In the 70s, 'Cowboy and Indian' fiction was hugely popular (see Karl May movies) and people would dress up in probably incredibly eacist 'Indian' attire, children would basically black-face with no ill Intention at carnival. The American civil war, American Indians, the 'wild west' weren't "real" here, it was basically romantic fantasy. None of that would be appropriate today.
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  • qultuqqultuq Member Posts: 989 Arc User
    edited March 2022
    > @evilmark444 said:
    >
    >
    > Except they showed PLENTY to demonstrate how bad this reality's human government is, they did not rely on any potential bias at all.

    Don’t get me wrong Mark,the episode was great and there was a lot of good writing in there too. But a Confederation of single-state Earth makes little sense. They are making a heavy-handed allusion to the Confederate South—presumably because the humans there are xenophobic. And that is kinda week. They could have named it anything… Alliance, Coalition, Oligarchy, imperium, etc.
    Post edited by qultuq on
  • evilmark444evilmark444 Member Posts: 7,016 Arc User
    Meanwhile, I remember how there was a group in Starcraft literally called the Confederacy (okay, officially Terran Confederacy, but no one ever uses the official name) that used the actual CSA flag as their factional emblem - no changes whatsoever.

    You could get away with so much TRIBBLE in the 90s you wouldn't be able to today.​​

    The Terran Confederacy was portrayed as bad, and the first campaign of StarCraft had you fighting to overthrow them, so I don't think anyone would complain about it if the game came out now instead of back then.
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  • rattler2rattler2 Member, Star Trek Online Moderator Posts: 58,940 Community Moderator
    qultuq wrote: »
    Don’t get me wrong Mark,the episode was great and there was a lot of good writing in there too. But a Confederation of single-state Earth makes little sense. They are making a heavy-handed allusion to the Confederate South—presumably because the humans there are xenophobic. And that is kinda week. They could have named it anything… Alliance, Coalition, Oligarchy, imperium, etc.

    I do have a counter argument as well. An instance of a Confederation NOT being evil.

    I direct your attention to the old 90s space combat sim series Wing Commander.
    In all games (although WC4 does see you switch to the Union of Border Worlds partway through) You play as a pilot of the Terran Confederation, and in the first three games you are fighting against the Kilrathi Empire. The only time Confed becomes the enemy is in WC4, but that is because of the machinations of Admiral Tolwyn playing both sides in order to keep the Confederation on a war footing as he feels they have no choice but to always be fighting otherwise the next species that comes along will dominate humanity.

    Confederation doesn't always link back to the Civil War.
    It’s not exactly invisible. During the US Civil War Confederate Navy Ships were “CSS”. With the most famous being CSS Virginia. The only way to make it more obvious would be to throw in a vanity shield that paints the ship orange and puts a Confederate Battle Flag on top of the hull. (Engaging Pilot Maneuvers triggers a special 20th century sound effect.)

    I know the Confederate Navy used that because I also watched Sahara, which found the fictional ironclad CSS Texas in Africa of all places.
    However they couldn't try and say it was Earth Confederation Ship, or ECS, because guess what? That's also Earth CARGO Service.
    Meanwhile, I remember how there was a group in Starcraft literally called the Confederacy (okay, officially Terran Confederacy, but no one ever uses the official name) that used the actual CSA flag as their factional emblem - no changes whatsoever.​​

    Minor change actually. If I recall they actually had a bit cut out from between the "arms" so the flag wasn't a full rectangle.
    the heavy handed "allusion" to which you refer is telling about how people place things where they are not. i find it ironic that yall lend towards the south and slavery but mention nothing of the colors chosen for the "confederacy."

    why cant a story/episode/moment on the screen be separate from all else?

    if you want to place a likeness, ok, go for it, and you certainly can...but stop forcing your visual reference as the end all be all. such statements and comparisons show how little people can move forward and let the past be the past.

    Personally I feel that they just picked Confederation because it was different from both the Federation and the Terran Empire. They wanted to show it was a different reality without going into the already established Mirror Universe. And identifying it as a Confederation rather than Federation gives it just that much of a nudge to say it was close but drifted away.
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
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  • baddmoonrizinbaddmoonrizin Member Posts: 11,256 Community Moderator
    Seems to me that y'all are straying from the OP's original intent of the thread, and derailing it with some potentially controversial subject matter that in and of itself could lead to flaming/trolling and forum rules violations. Please, stay on topic. Thanks.
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  • paddy#3322 paddy Member Posts: 203 Arc User
    I am quite sure the Stargazer will be released in 2022 in whatever capacity that the developers feel will net the most profits. For me unless the stats are quite good, or I can use one of my T6 coupons on it, I'll probably pass. If it's a lottery box or promo ship, which I'll assume it will be, then it's an absolute pass.

    I'm happy that people are enjoying Picard. I gave up on the show after the dumpster fire of it's first season, again just for me. I'm also not a fan of Ms. Goldberg or her role as Guinan so her returning to the show would not have the desired effect of bringing me back. Mr. DeLancy on the other hand was excellent as Q so I'm sure he brought smiles to many STNG fans.
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  • captainbrian11captainbrian11 Member Posts: 733 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    qultuq wrote: »
    Don’t get me wrong Mark,the episode was great and there was a lot of good writing in there too. But a Confederation of single-state Earth makes little sense. They are making a heavy-handed allusion to the Confederate South—presumably because the humans there are xenophobic. And that is kinda week. They could have named it anything… Alliance, Coalition, Oligarchy, imperium, etc.

    I do have a counter argument as well. An instance of a Confederation NOT being evil.

    I direct your attention to the old 90s space combat sim series Wing Commander.
    In all games (although WC4 does see you switch to the Union of Border Worlds partway through) You play as a pilot of the Terran Confederation, and in the first three games you are fighting against the Kilrathi Empire. The only time Confed becomes the enemy is in WC4, but that is because of the machinations of Admiral Tolwyn playing both sides in order to keep the Confederation on a war footing as he feels they have no choice but to always be fighting otherwise the next species that comes along will dominate humanity.

    Confederation doesn't always link back to the Civil War.
    It’s not exactly invisible. During the US Civil War Confederate Navy Ships were “CSS”. With the most famous being CSS Virginia. The only way to make it more obvious would be to throw in a vanity shield that paints the ship orange and puts a Confederate Battle Flag on top of the hull. (Engaging Pilot Maneuvers triggers a special 20th century sound effect.)

    I know the Confederate Navy used that because I also watched Sahara, which found the fictional ironclad CSS Texas in Africa of all places.
    However they couldn't try and say it was Earth Confederation Ship, or ECS, because guess what? That's also Earth CARGO Service.
    Meanwhile, I remember how there was a group in Starcraft literally called the Confederacy (okay, officially Terran Confederacy, but no one ever uses the official name) that used the actual CSA flag as their factional emblem - no changes whatsoever.​​

    Minor change actually. If I recall they actually had a bit cut out from between the "arms" so the flag wasn't a full rectangle.
    the heavy handed "allusion" to which you refer is telling about how people place things where they are not. i find it ironic that yall lend towards the south and slavery but mention nothing of the colors chosen for the "confederacy."

    why cant a story/episode/moment on the screen be separate from all else?

    if you want to place a likeness, ok, go for it, and you certainly can...but stop forcing your visual reference as the end all be all. such statements and comparisons show how little people can move forward and let the past be the past.

    Personally I feel that they just picked Confederation because it was different from both the Federation and the Terran Empire. They wanted to show it was a different reality without going into the already established Mirror Universe. And identifying it as a Confederation rather than Federation gives it just that much of a nudge to say it was close but drifted away.


    using wing commander as an example Confederation makes sense in this regard.

    A CONfederation, is defined as a federation where the federal governments control over it's constituate members is much weaker, which is why the use of it in this case is just clearly a case of "confederacy has bad connotations thanks to the CSA"

    from a political subtext it just doesn't make sense for a dictatorship to be called a confederation. empire would make more sense, if they wanted to select something differant better choices would have been "Imperium" "Republic" "Union" "League" "Hegemony"

  • baddmoonrizinbaddmoonrizin Member Posts: 11,256 Community Moderator
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  • evilmark444evilmark444 Member Posts: 7,016 Arc User
    it just doesn't make sense for a dictatorship to be called a confederation.

    We don't really know that it's a dictatorship, we saw very little of how the government actually operates.
    They are highly militaristic, xenophobic, have no problem slaughtering non-humans, and are in the process of conquering the galaxy, but there was nothing to indicate how much power Seven has as president. It's possible that it is in fact a true Confederation and Seven has very little real power. It's also possible that it started as a Confederation and became a dictatorship after a military coup, but maintained the name for some reason. It's one detail that we simply don't know yet, and one that we may not ever find out either unless this universe gets developed further.
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  • captainbrian11captainbrian11 Member Posts: 733 Arc User
    true it sounds almost like Picard actually has MORE power then Seven does so the military having the real power would make sense
  • strathkinstrathkin Member Posts: 2,716 Bug Hunter
    edited March 2022
    I was surprised how much deeper the neck of the Excelsior II seemed to be pushed forward, example the deflector sits far more forward on the new hull.

    Still it could likely work with the Resolute Class options, especially if marked as a separate Ship class with different seating, specializations. Could make a interesting new 2 set combo for Heavy Cruiser's as well.

    I'd LOVE to also see the Stargazer in CSTORE as well, that also likely be a Heavy Cruiser as well. So excited to see what happens next week on Discovery & Picard.
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