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fleetcaptain5#1134 fleetcaptain5 Member Posts: 2,960 Arc User
"We never want our ships to explode. We spend lots of time making sure our ships don't explode. But if we are going to explode, it should look nice, shouldn't it? Ship Artist and FX Artist Ian Richards thought the same, and so he took the time to rebuild the FX that play when your ship is damaged, all the way up until it explodes. This launches next week on PC, and very soon after on Console. You can see the full difference in the new FX in the video below."

https://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/11500773-die-gloriously!
[4:46] [Combat {self}] Your Haymaker deals 23337 (9049) Physical Damage(Critical) to Spawnmother

[3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
«13

Comments

  • fleetcaptain5#1134 fleetcaptain5 Member Posts: 2,960 Arc User
    I feel the time and resources required to make this change could have better been spent doing what many people have long requested: adding options to disable many or all other visual spam.
    [4:46] [Combat {self}] Your Haymaker deals 23337 (9049) Physical Damage(Critical) to Spawnmother

    [3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
  • davefenestratordavefenestrator Member Posts: 9,533 Arc User
    I feel the time and resources required to make this change could have better been spent doing what many people have long requested: adding options to disable many or all other visual spam.

    Yep. TFOs are a mess of so many overlapping visuals. I often (not always) want to see my own visuals but not 4 other sets making it look like a rainbow Beacon of Kahless.

  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 36,847 Arc User
    Ship damage and explosion FX is the only part of the game where I would suggest developers go crazy...but since they've done that literally everywhere else too, this was basically a wasted change because it'll almost never be seen by any halfway decent player.​​
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  • kingawakingawa Member Posts: 11 Arc User
    I mean...just...why? I'm no sure how much time and money they dumped into this, but I feel like the resources should have been put into something more productive. Especially considering that on the occasion a player does die, they most likely want to get back into the action as soon as possible, not sit and watch and extended and flashy death scene.
  • keepcalmchiveonkeepcalmchiveon Member Posts: 3,508 Arc User
    imma be on the opposite side of most here...i like it. thanks for this small touch!
    meh

  • davefenestratordavefenestrator Member Posts: 9,533 Arc User
    edited October 2021
    imma be on the opposite side of most here...i like it. thanks for this small touch!

    It's not that I dislike it, it's just an example of (to me) working on the wrong feature.

    In fairness it's possible the people involved were not the ones who would work on adding control over visuals. For example if it was just the art staff, while it is the programmers who'd add controls.
  • captainkoltarcaptainkoltar Member Posts: 766 Arc User
    I like it too. It looks really great. Nice work.
  • sennahcheribsennahcherib Member Posts: 2,823 Arc User
    imma be on the opposite side of most here...i like it. thanks for this small touch!

    +1
  • anazondaanazonda Member Posts: 8,398 Arc User
    I feel the time and resources required to make this change could have better been spent doing what many people have long requested: adding options to disable many or all other visual spam.

    Or at least reduced them massively
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  • saurializardsaurializard Member Posts: 4,145 Arc User
    Some screenshots of mine I posted on a previous thread where I was checking how the EV suits were now working on Tribble, showing some additional effects while ships are in movement:

    From what I've tried, it seems it doesn't depend on your remaining hull only, but also on how hard you hit or get hit. You also have a few new effects, like explosions from weapon impacts, similar to the impacts of the DSC and Kelvin Timeline bolts, and some kind of plasma/energy leak:
    20211024052221_1.png?raw=1
    20211024052203_1.png?raw=1
    20211024052407_1.png?raw=1
    Both fires and leaks tend to disappear a few seconds after the severe hit(s) that caused them, unless your hull is very low, then you're likely to have them stay longer or until your ship is destroyed.

    Also, no confirmation, but they seem to be somewhat localized.

    While it's a nice idea, it can also lead to funny situations where you still have like 70% hull but you took several hits in a row that the game deemed "worthy" of causing those new effects, so for a few seconds you have like 3 fires leaving bigger trails than your engines, an energy leak and you just came out of two smoky explosions that swallowed half of your whole ship.
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  • dacia#9992 dacia Member Posts: 66 Arc User
    Thank you for the screenshots.

    So long as it only affects Player ships, this should be fine as far FX spam goes. I just kinda wish the devs would take our feedback on it more seriously, particularly when it comes to ground missions. "The rule of cool" has a way of being mercilessly abused to the point where it's not even remotely cool anymore.
  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 36,847 Arc User
    edited October 2021
    Well, now that they've spent time on this, here's hoping the next time-waster critically-important project they take on is fixing up ship hardpoints so turret builds don't have the fire of 6-8 different turrets all come from the EXACT same firing point.​​
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    RIP Breonna Taylor, George Floyd, Rayshard Brooks & Calvin Munerlyn

    blacklivesmatter.png

    #LegalizeAwoo

    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"


    "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."

    "Curiosity is bad! It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed...and more importantly, it makes you poor!"
    Passion and Serenity are one.
    I gain power by understanding both.
    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
    The Force is united within me.
  • saurializardsaurializard Member Posts: 4,145 Arc User
    edited October 2021
    dacia#9992 wrote: »
    Thank you for the screenshots.

    So long as it only affects Player ships, this should be fine as far FX spam goes.
    Well, do I have bad news for you.
    And since the remaining hull isn't the only factor now, the bigger the damage sponge, the more likely the VFX spam.
    #TASforSTO
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  • dacia#9992 dacia Member Posts: 66 Arc User
    oh.. ffs....

  • keepcalmchiveonkeepcalmchiveon Member Posts: 3,508 Arc User
    Some screenshots of mine I posted on a previous thread where I was checking how the EV suits were now working on Tribble, showing some additional effects while ships are in movement:

    From what I've tried, it seems it doesn't depend on your remaining hull only, but also on how hard you hit or get hit. You also have a few new effects, like explosions from weapon impacts, similar to the impacts of the DSC and Kelvin Timeline bolts, and some kind of plasma/energy leak:
    20211024052221_1.png?raw=1
    20211024052203_1.png?raw=1
    20211024052407_1.png?raw=1
    Both fires and leaks tend to disappear a few seconds after the severe hit(s) that caused them, unless your hull is very low, then you're likely to have them stay longer or until your ship is destroyed.

    Also, no confirmation, but they seem to be somewhat localized.

    While it's a nice idea, it can also lead to funny situations where you still have like 70% hull but you took several hits in a row that the game deemed "worthy" of causing those new effects, so for a few seconds you have like 3 fires leaving bigger trails than your engines, an energy leak and you just came out of two smoky explosions that swallowed half of your whole ship.

    thx for details and pics.
    meh

  • saurializardsaurializard Member Posts: 4,145 Arc User
    edited October 2021
    What I need to check is how Iconian ships now react as they have the most complex death effects. Will check and update on that once my connection stops sucking again.

    EDIT: And when Tribble is available again, actually. That timing... "-Hey, here's a new stuff on Tribble! -Cool, can I go see by myself? -............. HAHAHAHAHA!"
    #TASforSTO
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  • keepcalmchiveonkeepcalmchiveon Member Posts: 3,508 Arc User
    imma be on the opposite side of most here...i like it. thanks for this small touch!

    It's not that I dislike it, it's just an example of (to me) working on the wrong feature....

    i am sure we all have those reservations from many aspects. you are not wrong either. its just a nice touch, from my view point and appreciated.
    meh

  • naabal421#0722 naabal421 Member Posts: 162 Arc User
    edited October 2021
    dacia#9992 wrote: »
    Thank you for the screenshots.

    So long as it only affects Player ships, this should be fine as far FX spam goes. I just kinda wish the devs would take our feedback on it more seriously, particularly when it comes to ground missions. "The rule of cool" has a way of being mercilessly abused to the point where it's not even remotely cool anymore.
    Visual spam issues in MMOs almost never get fixed from what I've seen from other games.

    The problem most devs tend to bring up is that the visual effect system was never designed to differentiate between sources. Everything just runs on one effect layer, so trying to give people sliders to turn down visual effects just means everything, including basic weapon attacks, gets tuned down into nothing. While they can edit individual effects, most effects by themselves aren't an issue, its the stacking of effects thats the real problem, and people tend to get angry when their favorite effect stops looking cool. Its a rather annoying issue, but I've not seen many games come up with a solution that makes everyone happy.

    Would be nice to see a least a few effects like the space tornadoes get tuned down a bit though.
  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 36,847 Arc User
    edited October 2021
    And yet constantly being presented with this as an issue across multiple games, other developers creating new MMOs never actually seem to think 'Gee, maybe we should set up our VFX system so individual effects can be turned down, or off entirely.' - or they do, and they're the ones getting hurled out the window like that one meme.​​
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    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

    RIP Breonna Taylor, George Floyd, Rayshard Brooks & Calvin Munerlyn

    blacklivesmatter.png

    #LegalizeAwoo

    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"


    "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."

    "Curiosity is bad! It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed...and more importantly, it makes you poor!"
    Passion and Serenity are one.
    I gain power by understanding both.
    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
    The Force is united within me.
  • dacia#9992 dacia Member Posts: 66 Arc User
    dacia#9992 wrote: »
    Thank you for the screenshots.

    So long as it only affects Player ships, this should be fine as far FX spam goes. I just kinda wish the devs would take our feedback on it more seriously, particularly when it comes to ground missions. "The rule of cool" has a way of being mercilessly abused to the point where it's not even remotely cool anymore.
    Visual spam issues in MMOs almost never get fixed from what I've seen from other games.

    The problem most devs tend to bring up is that the visual effect system was never designed to differentiate between sources. Everything just runs on one effect layer, so trying to give people sliders to turn down visual effects just means everything, including basic weapon attacks, gets tuned down into nothing. While they can edit individual effects, most effects by themselves aren't an issue, its the stacking of effects thats the real problem, and people tend to get angry when their favorite effect stops looking cool.

    Its a rather annoying issue, but I've not seen many games come up with a solution that makes everyone happy.


    While I don't disagree with you on any particular point, there are other solutions. Even if they are low impact. For example, I spent the past couple weeks looking for a way to get the Anti-Time Entanglement module off my build without losing any dps. It was trickier than it sounds, because it's a really high dps kit module, but worth it because the thing is such an eye-sore.

    If they could introduce kit modules that were comparable to Cold Fusion Flash and Endothermic Induction field that were less FX intensive, I would replace those in a heartbeat. But there just isn't anything.

    Would having alternatives clean up the game completely? No. Some people will always use them. But it would help.

  • nova73#7821 nova73 Member Posts: 6 Arc User
    I feel the time and resources required to make this change could have better been spent doing what many people have long requested: adding options to disable many or all other visual spam.

    No kidding, even players with high end rigs in my fleet are saying their fps goes to sub 30 with all of the onscreen FX when we run TFO's.
  • fleetcaptain5#1134 fleetcaptain5 Member Posts: 2,960 Arc User
    Some of the new visuals actually look nice. (Thanks Saurializard for the pics.)

    For me, the problem isn't that they added nice visuals. It's that they made it a priority to add them to something most players will work hard to avoid ever seeing those visuals. When, moreover, we've been asking for LESS visual spam for years.

    And yes, I am working on the assumption here (as Dave mentioned) that those who made these changes would have been the people involved in making the other, actually requested changes.
    [4:46] [Combat {self}] Your Haymaker deals 23337 (9049) Physical Damage(Critical) to Spawnmother

    [3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
  • spiritbornspiritborn Member Posts: 3,414 Arc User
    edited October 2021
    Well we can pretty tell who made those changes, this seems to be mostly an art update so it would be ship artist(s) and the effects team who is doing this, systems or programmers probably didn't have much to do with this. Most requested changes seem to be bug fixes, removing DSC based content or removing Federation content in general and ship artists have pretty much nothing to do with that.
  • fleetcaptain5#1134 fleetcaptain5 Member Posts: 2,960 Arc User
    I feel the time and resources required to make this change could have better been spent doing what many people have long requested: adding options to disable many or all other visual spam.

    No kidding, even players with high end rigs in my fleet are saying their fps goes to sub 30 with all of the onscreen FX when we run TFO's.

    I don't really have fps issues. It's just that it's usually difficult to enjoy flying your ship when you can't see it most of the time.

    Most abilities' visuals don't even make sense. A large B hovering over your ship when activating APB for example. Abilities like Delphic tear that seem to have their origin in the space above and below your ship and everything between it, instead of just coming from the deflector dish.
    Cooldown reducing traits that add a large clock-like effect underneath your ship every couple of seconds... and so on.


    It just makes everything ugly. And if ugliness is what I wanted to see, I wouldn't spend thousands of Zen to get different versions of ships to be able to combine them, hundreds of thousands of dilithium or tens of millions of EC to get vanity shields and many of these resources to obtain a specific weapon type.
    [4:46] [Combat {self}] Your Haymaker deals 23337 (9049) Physical Damage(Critical) to Spawnmother

    [3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
  • saurializardsaurializard Member Posts: 4,145 Arc User
    I feel the time and resources required to make this change could have better been spent doing what many people have long requested: adding options to disable many or all other visual spam.

    No kidding, even players with high end rigs in my fleet are saying their fps goes to sub 30 with all of the onscreen FX when we run TFO's.
    Worst part is, you don't even need too much VFX to tank your FPS even with a strong PC. Just opening more than one tab (or just specific ones) can do that.
    Hell, even just hovering your cursor over certain abilities can utterly annihilate your framerate for no particular reason.
    #TASforSTO
    Iconian_Trio_sign.jpg?raw=1
  • corinthalascorinthalas Member Posts: 1,537 Arc User
    edited October 2021
    imma be on the opposite side of most here...i like it. thanks for this small touch!

    It's not that I dislike it, it's just an example of (to me) working on the wrong feature.

    In fairness it's possible the people involved were not the ones who would work on adding control over visuals. For example if it was just the art staff, while it is the programmers who'd add controls.

    Exactly. This is another instance of them deliberately not listening to player issues or simply prioritizing the wrong things. We've been asking to have the VFX spam in the game toned down for a long time. What do we get instead? More VFX and more problematic VFX. In all likelihood, the only time I'll even be able to see this change is in story missions and patrols. That sounds like misuse of development time to me.
  • crypticarmsmancrypticarmsman Member Posts: 3,808 Arc User
    And yet constantly being presented with this as an issue across multiple games, other developers creating new MMOs never actually seem to think 'Gee, maybe we should set up our VFX system so individual effects can be turned down, or off entirely.' - or they do, and they're the ones getting hurled out the window like that one meme.​​

    That's because a lot of gamers LIKE power visual effects (I too think they are WAY overdone in STO - but I'm sure the majority of actual players, most of which don't post anywhere, they just play; couldn't care less, or actually like the various visual cues that a power activated.)
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  • davefenestratordavefenestrator Member Posts: 9,533 Arc User
    And yet constantly being presented with this as an issue across multiple games, other developers creating new MMOs never actually seem to think 'Gee, maybe we should set up our VFX system so individual effects can be turned down, or off entirely.' - or they do, and they're the ones getting hurled out the window like that one meme.​​

    That's because a lot of gamers LIKE power visual effects (I too think they are WAY overdone in STO - but I'm sure the majority of actual players, most of which don't post anywhere, they just play; couldn't care less, or actually like the various visual cues that a power activated.)

    One of the reasons why I like leveling up a new character once in a while is for the clean early game, where it's just your ship in story episodes with small numbers of enemies and minimal visual spam.

    Also, at low levels the older and single-target powers still seem useful against enemies without the need for all the AOE ones.
  • corinthalascorinthalas Member Posts: 1,537 Arc User
    Also, having watched the 'new' version in action (rather than just still images), I find the changes to be a wash. Some parts are better. Other parts are worse (the giant decompression poofs are just ridiculous).
  • protoneousprotoneous Member Posts: 2,251 Arc User
    It seems like the new effect could obscure vision.

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