I just saw a photo of a Disco Ferengi...seriously?
Why would they do that? I thought Disco did to Klingons was bad, but this? Seriously?
I don't have words...I also don't have a means of posting the photo here, but Google it and prepare to be deeply, deeply unhappy.
I think it's fine personally, it's instantly recognizable and could easily be a different ferengi ethnic group or something like that. The design is close enough that they could put it side by side with the classic design in the same scene and they would not look out of place. It's not even close to the travesty that was Disco Klingons.
I don't hate it. Could've stood to keep the brow line but I appreciate the ear tweaks to call back to the original concept art. 7/10, not great, not bad.
Right. I like how logical this kind of argumentation is.
Did people freak out like this in 1979 when klingons looked different in TMP?
Yes, they did. And again with Worf in TNG.
Those depictions were not always well received but not quite to the degree that the DSC Klingons were reviled, but then again there wasn't Moonves deliberately fanning the flames to squeeze out all the free advertising the controversy could generate.
Also there was the factor that without social media like today only the loudest and most controversial stuff ever made it to print so it sounded worse than it was. In fact, at conventions where that "controversial enough for news" filter was not present the attitude was more a case of moderate dislike that mostly faded out when the idea of Fusions came out.
The extreme DSC Klingon look also made a lot of situations and characters (like B'Elanna Torres) extremely unlikely or impossible. For instance Chekov probably would not have found Mara to be unexpectedly beautiful if she looked more like the creature from the black lagoon than human, and there is a good reason people were calling DSC Klingons "Klingorcs". In fact, it seems like in order to make the DSC Klingons as alien looking as possible while still retaining some vestige of human appearance, that Hetrick deliberately made them as stereotypically ugly as possible.
On top of that it was as much about the "dumb space barbarian" impression the then-new Klingons gave just didn't mesh with the scheming the original ones did or the intense, pragmatic cold-war confrontation shown and thought the new ones acted like they should yell something like "Worf Smash!" and club their opponents with the phaser rifle instead of shooting. The main exception, even as far as along as second season TNG, was Kruge but he almost seemed to be a fluke since his crew all seemed to be the typical moron space barbarians the heroes could trick without even half trying.
If what Hetrick has been saying in interviews is right and not all Klingons houses are native to Qo'nos it would resolve all of the different looks by treating "Klingon" as a nationality rather than a single race in a way that all but the most rabid of the traditionalists and NuTrek fans would accept. It is only a very short step from the Federation situation of so many different non-Terran humans (many of which seem to be completely identical to Terran humans) in the area around Sol to the area around Qo'nos having a lot of what you could call "Klingonoid" types.
As for the DSC Ferengi, I don't like the new makeup much because it makes them look more ridiculous, sort of like a half-drowned bat and I am not a fan of Hetrick's tendency to load on as many wrinkles and/or bumps in the skin as possible, but it isn't a big deal either. If they had gone with something more like the illustration that was next to the picture it would have been an improvement though.
Exactly what it is. Every once in a while you get the same group that has decided that they set the standards for what is and what isn't 'trek,' and comes here to tell everyone who is and isn't a true fan and who's destroying the franchise.
Just let them run off at the mouth and spew their useless garbage if it makes them feel better.. or even if it doesn't.. no one cares either way. The rest of us will enjoy the new content without a care in the world and in the meantime we have threads like this to give us a laugh.
If you don't take them seriously (you shouldn't) they're actually pretty amusing.
Whilst I agree, it does generally seem worse when Discovery (since the majority of the hatred seems directed specifically at DSC) has a new season incoming. They can't introduce/announce anything without someone immediately taking to the internet to express how terrible that thing is.
.
I don't even have an issue with that.. if they're doing something and someone doesn't like it.. cool.
Those trying to tell us what is and what isn't 'trek' and talking about how people they know nothing about don't respect the IP just for having differing ideas is where things start to get stupid. It's the same mouthpieces every time, not offering anything worthy of discussion just going to the boards to type 'look at me' and feel vindicated because they have passed their self righteous judgment.
Some of these people even do their own creative works, I have to wonder how they would feel if someone else came along and judged them with the completely unfair vitriol that they use on others. Probably not great.
Not liking Discovery is fine, nothing appeals to everyone, those people are fine. Those who feel they speak for the fanbase as a whole or that they set the standard for what is acceptable for the IP can cram it with walnuts.
Whilst I agree, it does generally seem worse when Discovery (since the majority of the hatred seems directed specifically at DSC) has a new season incoming. They can't introduce/announce anything without someone immediately taking to the internet to express how terrible that thing is.
.
I think your last sentence is the key here. Discovery is the first Trek series to be released in the social media world we live in now. It's much easier for all opinions to be heard now than it was when previous series' were released, so I think it sounds worse than before because we're being bombarded with more opinions.
Alien races such as depicted in Star Trek are always very homogenous in their appearance, their features don't vary too much. But looking at the human race where we have a wide spectrum of skin colours, facial features, body sizes and shapes, it wouldn't be unrealistic to assume that such variety also exists on other planets. Just because we haven't seen any alternate Ferengi phenotypes doesn't mean they don't exist.
Changes in appearance don't bother me too much. The fact that they made 'Wesley Crusher' captain of the Discovery does.
Give it up and go back to complaining about evil steam engines.
Well, I mean, clearly steam engines are tools of the Devil, with all that fire and smoke and such. And if the Good Lord meant for us to fly about the landscape at horrific speeds in excess of thirty miles an hour, He'd have given us wheels!
Give it up and go back to complaining about evil steam engines.
Well, I mean, clearly steam engines are tools of the Devil, with all that fire and smoke and such. And if the Good Lord meant for us to fly about the landscape at horrific speeds in excess of thirty miles an hour, He'd have given us wheels!
No, steam engines are only tools of the devil if you stoke them with ghost rock instead of coal, and even that is questionable....
On another note, it is actually funny seeing some of the DSC/PIC fans proclaim with their noses in the air that fans who prefer the pre-2009 Treks for solid reasons or criticize any part of the new stuff are all rabid luddites who cannot keep themselves from spewing hate at anything new, all the while showing contempt for earlier Treks (especially TOS).
Isn't this more a topic for Ten Forward? I mean, it's nothing that exists in Star Trek Online for now, and the OP doesn't seem to ask for it to be added to Star Trek Online either.
Though I'd be in favor of it. Some new alien and Ferengi parts would certainly be nice.
For some reason, the Ferengi's face looks familiar. As if I recognize another actor working TNG era Ferengi make-up.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
On another note, it is actually funny seeing some of the DSC/PIC fans proclaim with their noses in the air that fans who prefer the pre-2009 Treks for solid reasons or criticize any part of the new stuff are all rabid luddites who cannot keep themselves from spewing hate at anything new, all the while showing contempt for earlier Treks (especially TOS).
The way I see it Trek is Trek, you have both respect the old while enjoying the new, the Original Timeline stopped existing as far back as TOS, Nu-Trek is simply a side effect of FC just like ENT was.
They can't introduce/announce anything without someone immediately taking to the internet to express how terrible that thing is.
.
I'm just glad my childhood was during the 90's, where most people I knew were EXCITED about new stuff in their favorite IP's, rather than fighting silly opinion-wars.
They can't introduce/announce anything without someone immediately taking to the internet to express how terrible that thing is.
.
I'm just glad my childhood was during the 90's, where most people I knew were EXCITED about new stuff in their favorite IP's, rather than fighting silly opinion-wars.
fellow 90s kid myself, really missed shows like Beast-Wars and Batman Beyond.
I just saw a photo of a Disco Ferengi...seriously?
Why would they do that? I thought Disco did to Klingons was bad, but this? Seriously?
I don't have words...I also don't have a means of posting the photo here, but Google it and prepare to be deeply, deeply unhappy.
Is it as bad as TNG adding Forehead ridges to Romulans in 1988? (They NEVER had them in TOS.)
Yeah, Rick Berman and Co. HATED 'Star Trek' too it seems...
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,597Community Moderator
I agree with this part right here. Trek is Trek. Its just frustrating when the gatekeepers come out as if what they say is Holy Canon Word of the Great God Roddenberry, and anyone who doesn't agree with them have committed the most heinous crime known to man. And if you look at the history of Star Trek shows... EVERY new series has been lambasted for one reason or another. Over time its just gotten more and more visible because of advancing technologies. Back with TNG... it was just hate snailmail and maybe opinion pieces in a niche magazine. Now its all over forums, message boards, social media... you name it.
Also 9 times out of 10... its RECYCLED arguments these days. Remember when Enterprise first came out? Then the Kelvin Timeline movies? Then Discovery? They pretty much had copy/paste reasons to hate.
And I'm fully expecting some kind of issue to be taken with the new shows coming out too because reasons.
"OMG! Number One has a NAME?! BLASPHEMY! HER NAME IS NUMBER ONE! NOT UNA CHIN-RILEY!"
I agree with this part right here. Trek is Trek. Its just frustrating when the gatekeepers come out as if what they say is Holy Canon Word of the Great God Roddenberry, and anyone who doesn't agree with them have committed the most heinous crime known to man. And if you look at the history of Star Trek shows... EVERY new series has been lambasted for one reason or another. Over time its just gotten more and more visible because of advancing technologies. Back with TNG... it was just hate snailmail and maybe opinion pieces in a niche magazine. Now its all over forums, message boards, social media... you name it.
Also 9 times out of 10... its RECYCLED arguments these days. Remember when Enterprise first came out? Then the Kelvin Timeline movies? Then Discovery? They pretty much had copy/paste reasons to hate.
And I'm fully expecting some kind of issue to be taken with the new shows coming out too because reasons.
"OMG! Number One has a NAME?! BLASPHEMY! HER NAME IS NUMBER ONE! NOT UNA CHIN-RILEY!"
I wonder if we'll get another Mirror Universe episode in Strange New Worlds, I've been curious to see what Peck's Spock looks like with a goatee and DSC Terran Armour, I know Nimoy himself looked great in Mirror Mirror, but that's besides the point the timeline so messed up there's going to some minor alterations, think of the Discoprise being a side effect of the Borg messing with earth's past, just like how ENT and the temporal cold war were side effects of FC.
Comments
I think it's fine personally, it's instantly recognizable and could easily be a different ferengi ethnic group or something like that. The design is close enough that they could put it side by side with the classic design in the same scene and they would not look out of place. It's not even close to the travesty that was Disco Klingons.
I Support Disco | Disco is Love | Disco is Life
Those depictions were not always well received but not quite to the degree that the DSC Klingons were reviled, but then again there wasn't Moonves deliberately fanning the flames to squeeze out all the free advertising the controversy could generate.
Also there was the factor that without social media like today only the loudest and most controversial stuff ever made it to print so it sounded worse than it was. In fact, at conventions where that "controversial enough for news" filter was not present the attitude was more a case of moderate dislike that mostly faded out when the idea of Fusions came out.
The extreme DSC Klingon look also made a lot of situations and characters (like B'Elanna Torres) extremely unlikely or impossible. For instance Chekov probably would not have found Mara to be unexpectedly beautiful if she looked more like the creature from the black lagoon than human, and there is a good reason people were calling DSC Klingons "Klingorcs". In fact, it seems like in order to make the DSC Klingons as alien looking as possible while still retaining some vestige of human appearance, that Hetrick deliberately made them as stereotypically ugly as possible.
On top of that it was as much about the "dumb space barbarian" impression the then-new Klingons gave just didn't mesh with the scheming the original ones did or the intense, pragmatic cold-war confrontation shown and thought the new ones acted like they should yell something like "Worf Smash!" and club their opponents with the phaser rifle instead of shooting. The main exception, even as far as along as second season TNG, was Kruge but he almost seemed to be a fluke since his crew all seemed to be the typical moron space barbarians the heroes could trick without even half trying.
If what Hetrick has been saying in interviews is right and not all Klingons houses are native to Qo'nos it would resolve all of the different looks by treating "Klingon" as a nationality rather than a single race in a way that all but the most rabid of the traditionalists and NuTrek fans would accept. It is only a very short step from the Federation situation of so many different non-Terran humans (many of which seem to be completely identical to Terran humans) in the area around Sol to the area around Qo'nos having a lot of what you could call "Klingonoid" types.
As for the DSC Ferengi, I don't like the new makeup much because it makes them look more ridiculous, sort of like a half-drowned bat and I am not a fan of Hetrick's tendency to load on as many wrinkles and/or bumps in the skin as possible, but it isn't a big deal either. If they had gone with something more like the illustration that was next to the picture it would have been an improvement though.
I don't even have an issue with that.. if they're doing something and someone doesn't like it.. cool.
Those trying to tell us what is and what isn't 'trek' and talking about how people they know nothing about don't respect the IP just for having differing ideas is where things start to get stupid. It's the same mouthpieces every time, not offering anything worthy of discussion just going to the boards to type 'look at me' and feel vindicated because they have passed their self righteous judgment.
Some of these people even do their own creative works, I have to wonder how they would feel if someone else came along and judged them with the completely unfair vitriol that they use on others. Probably not great.
Not liking Discovery is fine, nothing appeals to everyone, those people are fine. Those who feel they speak for the fanbase as a whole or that they set the standard for what is acceptable for the IP can cram it with walnuts.
I think your last sentence is the key here. Discovery is the first Trek series to be released in the social media world we live in now. It's much easier for all opinions to be heard now than it was when previous series' were released, so I think it sounds worse than before because we're being bombarded with more opinions.
K
Changes in appearance don't bother me too much. The fact that they made 'Wesley Crusher' captain of the Discovery does.
But nooo, let's hate of DSC because it's cool, and edgy, because no true trek fan would ever like DSC!
Give it up and go back to complaining about evil steam engines.
No, steam engines are only tools of the devil if you stoke them with ghost rock instead of coal, and even that is questionable....
On another note, it is actually funny seeing some of the DSC/PIC fans proclaim with their noses in the air that fans who prefer the pre-2009 Treks for solid reasons or criticize any part of the new stuff are all rabid luddites who cannot keep themselves from spewing hate at anything new, all the while showing contempt for earlier Treks (especially TOS).
Though I'd be in favor of it. Some new alien and Ferengi parts would certainly be nice.
For some reason, the Ferengi's face looks familiar. As if I recognize another actor working TNG era Ferengi make-up.
The way I see it Trek is Trek, you have both respect the old while enjoying the new, the Original Timeline stopped existing as far back as TOS, Nu-Trek is simply a side effect of FC just like ENT was.
I'm just glad my childhood was during the 90's, where most people I knew were EXCITED about new stuff in their favorite IP's, rather than fighting silly opinion-wars.
fellow 90s kid myself, really missed shows like Beast-Wars and Batman Beyond.
Is it as bad as TNG adding Forehead ridges to Romulans in 1988? (They NEVER had them in TOS.)
Yeah, Rick Berman and Co. HATED 'Star Trek' too it seems...
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Dude...
Joking aside...
I agree with this part right here. Trek is Trek. Its just frustrating when the gatekeepers come out as if what they say is Holy Canon Word of the Great God Roddenberry, and anyone who doesn't agree with them have committed the most heinous crime known to man. And if you look at the history of Star Trek shows... EVERY new series has been lambasted for one reason or another. Over time its just gotten more and more visible because of advancing technologies. Back with TNG... it was just hate snailmail and maybe opinion pieces in a niche magazine. Now its all over forums, message boards, social media... you name it.
Also 9 times out of 10... its RECYCLED arguments these days. Remember when Enterprise first came out? Then the Kelvin Timeline movies? Then Discovery? They pretty much had copy/paste reasons to hate.
And I'm fully expecting some kind of issue to be taken with the new shows coming out too because reasons.
"OMG! Number One has a NAME?! BLASPHEMY! HER NAME IS NUMBER ONE! NOT UNA CHIN-RILEY!"
I wonder if we'll get another Mirror Universe episode in Strange New Worlds, I've been curious to see what Peck's Spock looks like with a goatee and DSC Terran Armour, I know Nimoy himself looked great in Mirror Mirror, but that's besides the point the timeline so messed up there's going to some minor alterations, think of the Discoprise being a side effect of the Borg messing with earth's past, just like how ENT and the temporal cold war were side effects of FC.