So, I see no reason to join a premade possy, as it were, made to humiliate him by agreeing with his every word,
That's actually not what I suggested at all. Notorious-Troll-X thinks they are always right and will reply endlessly until the other person just gives up.
My suggestion is to quote and agree with the OTHER person (meaning the one that Notorious-Troll-X is arguing with). The goal/purpose is to stop Notorious-Troll-X from getting the "last word" by always replying after them, and agreeing with the person they are arguing against.
Oops, I misunderstood you. My bad.
Still, no need to organize anything, I think; we can just keep it civil the natural way, as it were.
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,595Community Moderator
My suggestion is to quote and agree with the OTHER person (meaning the one that Notorious-Troll-X is arguing with). The goal/purpose is to stop Notorious-Troll-X from getting the "last word" by always replying after them, and agreeing with the person they are arguing against.
The problem with that approach is that sometimes the other guy might actually be wrong or be holding a rather aggressive position that you might not agree with at all. Therefor it would be better to just not respond at all rather than side with someone you don't actually agree with just for the sake of agreeing with them to counter another person.
That approach might actually get weaponized to attack things they don't like because they know they can "counter" the other guy and get guaranteed support JUST because of who he's "countering".
The problem with that approach is that sometimes the other guy might actually be wrong or be holding a rather aggressive position that you might not agree with at all. Therefor it would be better to just not respond at all rather than side with someone you don't actually agree with just for the sake of agreeing with them to counter another person.
I addressed this in my previous post:
I'm not saying we should pretend to agree with something we don't, but there are enough of us here with enough variety of opinion that someone should always be able to agree with "Person-A". So every time Notorious-Troll-X does their thing, there should always someone who can play the "Person-B" role and take the "last word" away from Notorious-Troll-X.
I'm not saying people who DON'T agree should do this. But those that DO, should. And hopefully there will always be at least 1 other person out there that can actually agree with the person Notorious-Troll-X is targeting, even if you personally do not.
But honestly, this is the problem: Notorious-Troll-X tries to dominate every discussion. They (apparently) have an endless amount of free time to waste, and have demonstrated they will reply endlessly until the person they are targeting stops posting. This kind of behavior simply can't be tolerated. If it is not actually against the forum rules, meaning the mods can't actually do anything about it, then the rest of us have to figure out a way to deal with it. And "ignoring" simply doesn't work when half the posts in any given thread are from the one person in question.
Perhaps if people ignore instead of responding it will be less of a problem? It's worth a try.
This really is the best option, and if I am being honest with the community, this last episode happened because I ignored my own advice.
I have long advocated for this policy, there is a person in particular who's approach to posting is something I find combative and non-productive. I found myself being constantly frustrated by this person as they would make the same points over and over and not listen to any retort based on those points.
What I found over time was that other posters were having the same experience. I then started ignoring that person and advising others to do the same. The forum experience became much more pleasant for me. It worked, it was a good idea and I should have followed it.
A couple weeks ago this person started a thread about a topic. I posted a very benign opinion and this person smelled blood in the water and just came after it. That's on him, but like a fool.. I replied. I engaged and let myself get drawn in knowing the entire time that it was exactly what this person wanted. I also violated the forum rules in the process and was given a warning I very much deserved. I knew better and I didn't listen to my own advice.. the result was a forum flame fest that got deleted.
Now, I don't want to isolate one person here, especially when I am not a perfect poster myself (or even close.) But I think the advice given is best, just learn when it's not worth it and when you see that avatar of that person you know you can't reason with.. skip it. Scroll past it, don't read it, don't engage.
If you must read it, and you think it's over the line.. report it and move on. It's really the best option and given that we can't ignore people, it's all we have.
Lastly, to the moderators, you guys are doing a fine job. It's a hard line to walk especially when someone is intentionally staying inside the lines but pushing as far as possible without an actual offense. Rattler said it perfectly, you get into the area where if you act you're seen has 'heavy handed' but if you don't you're seen as being permissive of the behavior. That's a tough line to talk, I myself have been too harsh in judgment here and need to correct that behavior.
In the end, it all would have been avoided if I just ignored it. If I followed my own advice instead of engaging in a dialogue that I knew would never be productive and that's on me.
Learn from my mistake.. if we all collectively stop feeding these kinds of posts, the people that post them will get bored and find something else to do. We can still engage with each other and it would make the moderators jobs a lot easier too. It's a tough thing to do, trust me.. I know. But it's the best option we have.
My suggestion is to quote and agree with the OTHER person (meaning the one that Notorious-Troll-X is arguing with).
This is something I could never do, if "Notorious-Troll-X" is who I think it is half the time I find myself agreeing with their opinion, they just have a tendency of being overly aggressive with their arguments. I personally don't think they are actually a troll, imo some of the other people here have simply taken a personal dislike to them and as a result are quick to get into a flame war simply because of the name on the post.
This is just my observation, I'm not really trying to defend them because I disagree with them just as often as I do agree (infact I had a short but very passionate argument with them on Reddit recently, I won't state their Reddit name but it's obvious it's them), and like I said they ARE a bit too aggressive with their wording at times, I just think that when it comes to this particular individual people react more emotionally than they might if someone else made a similar post.
I just think that when it comes to this particular individual people react more emotionally than they might if someone else made a similar post.
There is simply no one even remotely comparable to the person in question. They literally think they are always right, all the time. They absolutely cannot stand someone having an opinion they disagree with, and they will reply endlessly until the person they are targeting just gives up.
Believe me, I would love to see their name and avatar and see them not behaving the way they always do. The person in question is clearly very intelligent and knows a lot about the game, and that's cool. But anyone who tries to dominate every conversation and prove everyone else wrong is just as bad if not worse than any troll.
And to those who have said it: sorry, but I can't buy this "just ignore them" argument for 2 main reasons:
1: No one can reasonably be expected to ignore someone that posts as much as the person in question. If it were a few posts a day, maybe. But it's virtually impossible to read STO general without being bombarded by their posts. That's not something you can reasonably ignore.
2: Because of their behavior described earlier (endless replies until the other person gives up) they are driving away people and comments I actually want to see. I am completely happy to sit back and not post at all and just read the forums. But when the person in question is being such a (whatever) that it's making other people feel like it's not worth posting (I have literally heard people in fleet chat say this) that is just not acceptable.
> @keepcalmchiveon said: > while many posts were aggravating, some were filled with details i never knew and had some merit. (this is not defending in any way at all, just observation, as i have, and many others, have had less than enjoyable exchanges with said person)
I have to agree with you on this. As much as some may not agree, beyond the snipping, there have been times where information was presented that wasn’t either widely known/forgotten/unknown to some people that aren’t as invested in the game/lore. Also, I’m all for a different opinion that leads to a different shift of thought. But once the name calling begins it just destroys whatever the initial post was about and that sucks for all of us.
And that one specific person will write an endless amount of posts with an endless amount of bullet points picking apart every sentence they disagree with until whoever their "target" is in that particular thread just gives up because they don't have as much free time to waste as "you know who".
Voldermort?
*Trembles in fear*
You summoned the Dark Lord!
Meh. I'll just shine a laser pointer at him and let the cats take care if it
I have no idea who is being referred to vaguely here, none at all.
I do know I have routinely gotten into arguments with a certain poster and no one likes it. And if you wonder why I haven't seriously engaged with said poster in a while, it is purely to see what happens. The ability to ignore said poster is there, and it would obviously prevent such arguments. Still, other people have clearly found the need to challenge the poster's nonsense because it needs to be.
While many things here boil down to opinion, said poster using strawman arguments and nonsequiters to support his or her points is a very common tactic, not to mention the ad hominems. As well, said poster has the ability to present posts with certainty and confidence, even when completely wrong, and when right still tries to be the dominant force in the conversation. This, as I have seen can convince some people to believe said poster is correct when not, or is otherwise basing the opinion on nonsense.
I liken said posters tactics to that of a conman or politician. The poster is clearly no where near as dangerous as those classes of people, but not challenging the nonsense means it stands for other people not familiar with said poster to see that information as valid and unchallenged, as they may not be able to spot said poster's illegitimate argumentation and false logic themselves.
i look forward to this person coming back tbh. I like their posts, and they balance out the other people here who think their feelings/opinions = facts.
And yeah, its kind of on the rest of you to not respond and ignore this person. by engaging with them, you are equally responsible. we really need some adulting up in here. also its interesting how y'all are probably the "free speech" crowd, unless its something you don't like. very interesting, that.
This entire thread exists to bash one single forum poster. However you may feel about them, that's very much not cool. Bullying should never be how we do things here, even if you feel justified. Gonna lock this now, and if you have any questions or if you see a problem on the forums, feel free to ping me or the mod staff.
Comments
Oops, I misunderstood you.
Still, no need to organize anything, I think; we can just keep it civil the natural way, as it were.
The problem with that approach is that sometimes the other guy might actually be wrong or be holding a rather aggressive position that you might not agree with at all. Therefor it would be better to just not respond at all rather than side with someone you don't actually agree with just for the sake of agreeing with them to counter another person.
That approach might actually get weaponized to attack things they don't like because they know they can "counter" the other guy and get guaranteed support JUST because of who he's "countering".
I addressed this in my previous post:
I'm not saying people who DON'T agree should do this. But those that DO, should. And hopefully there will always be at least 1 other person out there that can actually agree with the person Notorious-Troll-X is targeting, even if you personally do not.
This really is the best option, and if I am being honest with the community, this last episode happened because I ignored my own advice.
I have long advocated for this policy, there is a person in particular who's approach to posting is something I find combative and non-productive. I found myself being constantly frustrated by this person as they would make the same points over and over and not listen to any retort based on those points.
What I found over time was that other posters were having the same experience. I then started ignoring that person and advising others to do the same. The forum experience became much more pleasant for me. It worked, it was a good idea and I should have followed it.
A couple weeks ago this person started a thread about a topic. I posted a very benign opinion and this person smelled blood in the water and just came after it. That's on him, but like a fool.. I replied. I engaged and let myself get drawn in knowing the entire time that it was exactly what this person wanted. I also violated the forum rules in the process and was given a warning I very much deserved. I knew better and I didn't listen to my own advice.. the result was a forum flame fest that got deleted.
Now, I don't want to isolate one person here, especially when I am not a perfect poster myself (or even close.) But I think the advice given is best, just learn when it's not worth it and when you see that avatar of that person you know you can't reason with.. skip it. Scroll past it, don't read it, don't engage.
If you must read it, and you think it's over the line.. report it and move on. It's really the best option and given that we can't ignore people, it's all we have.
Lastly, to the moderators, you guys are doing a fine job. It's a hard line to walk especially when someone is intentionally staying inside the lines but pushing as far as possible without an actual offense. Rattler said it perfectly, you get into the area where if you act you're seen has 'heavy handed' but if you don't you're seen as being permissive of the behavior. That's a tough line to talk, I myself have been too harsh in judgment here and need to correct that behavior.
In the end, it all would have been avoided if I just ignored it. If I followed my own advice instead of engaging in a dialogue that I knew would never be productive and that's on me.
Learn from my mistake.. if we all collectively stop feeding these kinds of posts, the people that post them will get bored and find something else to do. We can still engage with each other and it would make the moderators jobs a lot easier too. It's a tough thing to do, trust me.. I know. But it's the best option we have.
This is just my observation, I'm not really trying to defend them because I disagree with them just as often as I do agree (infact I had a short but very passionate argument with them on Reddit recently, I won't state their Reddit name but it's obvious it's them), and like I said they ARE a bit too aggressive with their wording at times, I just think that when it comes to this particular individual people react more emotionally than they might if someone else made a similar post.
There is simply no one even remotely comparable to the person in question. They literally think they are always right, all the time. They absolutely cannot stand someone having an opinion they disagree with, and they will reply endlessly until the person they are targeting just gives up.
Believe me, I would love to see their name and avatar and see them not behaving the way they always do. The person in question is clearly very intelligent and knows a lot about the game, and that's cool. But anyone who tries to dominate every conversation and prove everyone else wrong is just as bad if not worse than any troll.
And to those who have said it: sorry, but I can't buy this "just ignore them" argument for 2 main reasons:
1: No one can reasonably be expected to ignore someone that posts as much as the person in question. If it were a few posts a day, maybe. But it's virtually impossible to read STO general without being bombarded by their posts. That's not something you can reasonably ignore.
2: Because of their behavior described earlier (endless replies until the other person gives up) they are driving away people and comments I actually want to see. I am completely happy to sit back and not post at all and just read the forums. But when the person in question is being such a (whatever) that it's making other people feel like it's not worth posting (I have literally heard people in fleet chat say this) that is just not acceptable.
This problem shouldn't be ignored.
> while many posts were aggravating, some were filled with details i never knew and had some merit. (this is not defending in any way at all, just observation, as i have, and many others, have had less than enjoyable exchanges with said person)
I have to agree with you on this. As much as some may not agree, beyond the snipping, there have been times where information was presented that wasn’t either widely known/forgotten/unknown to some people that aren’t as invested in the game/lore. Also, I’m all for a different opinion that leads to a different shift of thought. But once the name calling begins it just destroys whatever the initial post was about and that sucks for all of us.
Meh. I'll just shine a laser pointer at him and let the cats take care if it
I do know I have routinely gotten into arguments with a certain poster and no one likes it. And if you wonder why I haven't seriously engaged with said poster in a while, it is purely to see what happens. The ability to ignore said poster is there, and it would obviously prevent such arguments. Still, other people have clearly found the need to challenge the poster's nonsense because it needs to be.
While many things here boil down to opinion, said poster using strawman arguments and nonsequiters to support his or her points is a very common tactic, not to mention the ad hominems. As well, said poster has the ability to present posts with certainty and confidence, even when completely wrong, and when right still tries to be the dominant force in the conversation. This, as I have seen can convince some people to believe said poster is correct when not, or is otherwise basing the opinion on nonsense.
I liken said posters tactics to that of a conman or politician. The poster is clearly no where near as dangerous as those classes of people, but not challenging the nonsense means it stands for other people not familiar with said poster to see that information as valid and unchallenged, as they may not be able to spot said poster's illegitimate argumentation and false logic themselves.
And yeah, its kind of on the rest of you to not respond and ignore this person. by engaging with them, you are equally responsible. we really need some adulting up in here. also its interesting how y'all are probably the "free speech" crowd, unless its something you don't like. very interesting, that.
This entire thread exists to bash one single forum poster. However you may feel about them, that's very much not cool. Bullying should never be how we do things here, even if you feel justified. Gonna lock this now, and if you have any questions or if you see a problem on the forums, feel free to ping me or the mod staff.