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PvEvP Warzone Transwarp

I think a permanent Transwarp to the PvEvP Warzone would be great as almost no one queues for PvP and the Warzone is a great place to test your build against other players.
Almost anyone I speak to has no idea the Warzone even exists, those that do only seem to know about the Space Warzone but not the Ground. If there is a Transwarp people out of curiosity at first might go there and maybe it will increase players in there at any one time. Maybe the Transwarp can be given to people upon reach level 65? Anyway just an idea.

Also it’d be great if you could bring your four away team members to help in the Ground Warzone.

https://sto.fandom.com/wiki/War_Zone
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Comments

  • cesitar257cesitar257 Member Posts: 49 Arc User
    edited August 29
    Agree !! :)
  • nixie50nixie50 Member Posts: 869 Arc User
    so you want the devs to divert resources the make a jump point to a place that no-one knows or cares about, to make life a bit easier for the 12 people who care about PvP at all?
    80d.gif
  • vanhyovanhyo Member Posts: 146 Arc User
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 54,634 Community Moderator
    I don't see that as any kind of viable means of drawing attention to PvP. Not only that, I predict a lot of ambush ganking, which is one of the reasons PvP is all but dead in the first place.

    The key problem with PvP is that all of the high end builds are geared for PvE, which means dealing with enemy groups with much larger HP pools than players. So the DPS is pushed up accordingly by players. Now what happens when you take that PvE build designed to chew through that much HP, and aim it at another player? Due to the fact there is FAR LESS HP to chew threw... opposing player barely has time to do anything before they divide by 0.

    I don't know about you, but I wouldn't call being on the receiving end of that much firepower fun or fair. And frankly no amount of "Just listen for the buffs" or "get gud" will be a viable counter. Once they start the attack run, which a skilled player can do outside of audible range on top of any other distractions in the area, its already over.

    If PvP is to have any kind of comeback... its not going to be through adding a transwarp option to "perk curiosity". Its going to take an extensive revamp to the system.
    66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
    The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • keepcalmchiveonkeepcalmchiveon Member Posts: 3,321 Arc User
    i would say it should be (if even added in) used in a way that you get to the door of the location, vs in the location. (if that makes sense)

    while it may not aid in garnering more interest in PVP in numbers you may want or think it will, as there are many other factors as to why its mostly dead, it might perk a few.
    meh

  • vanhyovanhyo Member Posts: 146 Arc User
    @rattler2

    Use my signature's clickie and be well prepared next time the universal pvp endevours pops up, i designed this build to be effective and accessible for everyone.
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 54,634 Community Moderator
    Honestly I just skip the PvP endeavors. But thanks for the offer.
    66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
    The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • protoneousprotoneous Member Posts: 2,189 Arc User
    nixie50 wrote: »
    so you want the devs to divert resources the make a jump point to a place that no-one knows or cares about, to make life a bit easier for the 12 people who care about PvP at all?
    Cryptic has stated that they'd like to work on PvP. I'd like to see them nibble away at it with small things like this at first as compared to doing a full Legacy of Romulus sized PvP expansion right off the bat.
    rattler2 wrote: »
    I don't see that as any kind of viable means of drawing attention to PvP.
    It's gotta be tough for people to engage in something that's hard to find. Imagine if players had to navigate to some obscure system just to start an event TFO? Ugh.

    I'd have to agree that a transwarp destination to a point just outside each system would be more effective in combination with something else such as a blurb on the landing screen.
  • vanhyovanhyo Member Posts: 146 Arc User
    edited August 29
    Just having ker'rat and otha written with bold red letters on the map and ( space/ground pvp zone) notification after system name will be enough to attract those who want to participate.

    >Cryptic has stated that they'd like to work on PvP.

    nice
  • darkbladejkdarkbladejk Member Posts: 3,200 Community Moderator
    In order to work on pvp they would need to first balance pvp, which they can't do until they separate pvp and pve completely. They've never done that. "pvp" in this game is little more than whoever can get their vape build out first. If I wanted to deal with that level of cheese, I would go play CoD or something like that.

    If they wanted to put a transwarp outside the system and made clear what folks were getting into by going in, then that's on them. Otherwise it's a no from me. I find too often competitive pvp or pvp of any type brings out the worst in people.
    "Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations

    Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
  • vanhyovanhyo Member Posts: 146 Arc User
    edited August 29
  • keepcalmchiveonkeepcalmchiveon Member Posts: 3,321 Arc User
    not sure, but it may have been asked or brought up...

    can they add another ship slot on the character screen UI in game and make that the PVP ship? (meaning, we have the ship we fly, and then the shuttle, or smaller craft tab)
    so this would then be current ship, smaller craft, pvp ship.

    i know it may not jive well, or even work, with skills etc...

    or maybe a pvp vender? where your current UI reverts to a PVP setup that is totally separate from PVE?
    meh

  • westmetalswestmetals Member Posts: 7,240 Arc User
    edited August 29
    I think a permanent Transwarp to the PvEvP Warzone would be great as almost no one queues for PvP and the Warzone is a great place to test your build against other players.
    Almost anyone I speak to has no idea the Warzone even exists, those that do only seem to know about the Space Warzone but not the Ground. If there is a Transwarp people out of curiosity at first might go there and maybe it will increase players in there at any one time. Maybe the Transwarp can be given to people upon reach level 65? Anyway just an idea.

    Also it’d be great if you could bring your four away team members to help in the Ground Warzone.

    https://sto.fandom.com/wiki/War_Zone

    The reason barely anybody queus for PVP is it is horribly unbalanced. As darkblade says, space PVP is little more than trying to shoot first. The last time I was in a space PVP match, I got killed so quickly and so many times that I was never even able to fire one full volley, while getting killed and respawning ten times. Six out of those ten times, I never even saw the ship that was shooting at me. In fact I spent over 50% of the match staring at respawn counters.

    And when I came to the forum looking for advice on how to avoid that, I was told that I either needed a lockbox starship trait or a cloaking ship... to even have a chance.

    Is it any wonder that, with a barrier to success like that, that players who do not already PVP are almost impossible to entice into it?

    Ground PVP is slightly more tolerable, but has some of the same issues as well.
  • questeriusquesterius Member Posts: 7,680 Arc User
    protoneous wrote: »
    nixie50 wrote: »
    so you want the devs to divert resources the make a jump point to a place that no-one knows or cares about, to make life a bit easier for the 12 people who care about PvP at all?
    Cryptic has stated that they'd like to work on PvP. I'd like to see them nibble away at it with small things like this at first as compared to doing a full Legacy of Romulus sized PvP expansion right off the bat.

    [

    How many changes in the designer team ago was that? The closest thing to PVP the devs introduced was competitive and those queues are barely alive outside of endeavors.
    This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
  • phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 3,760 Arc User
    Actually, Darkbladejk is right, PvP does tend to bring out the worst in a lot of people though small dedicated PvP groups do not go troll anywhere near as often as pug PvP.

    Also, the PvP battlezone in STO seems to have two outcomes, either no one else is there and is just solo PvE against the Borg, or someone is there ganking people in one shot, and very little in between from the times I have been there (admittedly not often) and the talk in chat and other threads here when the subject come up.

    I was in a game years ago called APB:Reloaded that was a prime example of toxic PvP, to the point where the inevitable trolls would shoot teammates in the back to artificially inflate their kill ratios. I have heard that they cleaned it up a bit since, but it was so toxic that I was burned out of PvP for years afterwards (and I still am a bit crispy around the edges even now so I dont do PvP at all unless I absolutely have to).

    And statistically, the popularity of PvP has been dropping since around 2014, the vast majority of online players now tend towards the casual end of the spectrum and generally do not like PvP much.
  • keepcalmchiveonkeepcalmchiveon Member Posts: 3,321 Arc User
    ha...ive actually enjoyed pvp back in the day and not as much now, however i still venture into it, more so when the endev comes by, and have managed to get a few kills on occasion.
    as compared to way back when though, its more like that of wests venture.
    meh

  • hightower#2475 hightower Member Posts: 39 Arc User
    nixie50 wrote: »
    so you want the devs to divert resources the make a jump point to a place that no-one knows or cares about, to make life a bit easier for the 12 people who care about PvP at all?

    It’s just an idea, but I’m glad we have well balanced people like you to put us all in our place.
  • hightower#2475 hightower Member Posts: 39 Arc User
    edited August 29
    vanhyo wrote: »
    Just having ker'rat and otha written with bold red letters on the map and ( space/ground pvp zone) notification after system name will be enough to attract those who want to participate.

    >Cryptic has stated that they'd like to work on PvP.

    nice

    Yes a good idea 🙂
  • protoneousprotoneous Member Posts: 2,189 Arc User
    questerius wrote: »
    protoneous wrote: »
    nixie50 wrote: »
    so you want the devs to divert resources the make a jump point to a place that no-one knows or cares about, to make life a bit easier for the 12 people who care about PvP at all?
    Cryptic has stated that they'd like to work on PvP. I'd like to see them nibble away at it with small things like this at first as compared to doing a full Legacy of Romulus sized PvP expansion right off the bat.

    How many changes in the designer team ago was that? The closest thing to PVP the devs introduced was competitive and those queues are barely alive outside of endeavors.

    It was mentioned in a '10 Forward Weekly' type of thread within the past year... the type of thread where somebody starts with a post that summarizes things that Cryptic said in their livestream on a point by point basis.

    I think it's great that they'd like to do so many things :)
  • vanhyovanhyo Member Posts: 146 Arc User
    edited August 30
    >>>>or maybe a pvp vender? where your current UI reverts to a PVP setup that is totally separate from PVE?<<<<

    oh pls no, i am totally ok maybe with a new competative lets say vol.2 rep vendor that offers some catch up with gear, that allows to halve the gap with the top players. lets say for example a budged rythmic rumble trait that is half as good yet useful, this sort of thing.

    separating pvp and pve gear and releasing them separately will be a disaster.


    also i do not know where people get the idea that pvp is about vaping, in my experience players usually have 4-5 oh sh! buttons and rotate them effectively, making a 1v1 very prolonged and annoying thing, where you actually want 2v1 or 3v1 to be able to shutdown someone effectively.
  • westmetalswestmetals Member Posts: 7,240 Arc User
    edited August 30
    vanhyo wrote: »
    >>>>or maybe a pvp vender? where your current UI reverts to a PVP setup that is totally separate from PVE?<<<<

    oh pls no, i am totally ok maybe with a new competative lets say vol.2 rep vendor that offers some catch up with gear, that allows to halve the gap with the top players. lets say for example a budged rythmic rumble trait that is half as good yet useful, this sort of thing.

    separating pvp and pve gear and releasing them separately will be a disaster.


    also i do not know where people get the idea that pvp is about vaping, in my experience players usually have 4-5 oh sh! buttons and rotate them effectively, making a 1v1 very prolonged and annoying thing, where you actually want 2v1 or 3v1 to be able to shutdown someone effectively.

    And those are things that are insanely expensive and not normally used on PVE builds. If you don't have them you are DEAD DEAD DEAD... which is a great way to recruit new PVP players.

    As I said... the last time I was in PVP, I got vaped ten times, and only four of those did I even know I was being shot at with time to respond at all. And when I asked for advice on how to fix that, every single thing that was mentioned would have required buying at least one new ship.
  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 9,554 Arc User
    Ker'rat was actually part of the storyline at one point. Everyone had to go through it at least once. Spawn ganking, people parking in there whenever their level ended in 9, ridiculous PvP builds, toxic behavior - it was terrible, and in my opinion was the single largest contributor to the death of PvP in STO (why go somewhere to be completely useless and powerless? You can have that in the real world!).

    Fallout 76 encountered a similar issue - during the game's first six months, the entire map was a PvP free-fire zone. Even when they instituted the first PvP flags, those only affected the character, leaving trolls free to firebomb your camp at will. It drove a sizeable number of players completely out of the game, and affected their experience enough that even when Bethesda made the Pacifist flag affect everything you own, and created a separate free-fire mode (Nuclear Winter) with its own rewards, there weren't enough people still interested in killing each other to keep that mode alive - Nuclear Winter is sunsetting next month, to be replaced by moddable private worlds.

    I just figure if folks are that desperate for space-based slaughtering of other players, EvE Online is right over that way. --> (It's still there, right? Haven't heard much about it lately...)
    Lorna-Wing-sig.png
  • protoneousprotoneous Member Posts: 2,189 Arc User
    jonsills wrote: »
    EvE Online is right over that way. -->

    How nice of you to be telling certain folks to go find another game when all that's being asked for is a transwarp button.

    We've had fully segregated game play since the earliest of times so it's difficult to understand the vitriol that comes from having a few war zones that are completely optional (no need for YOU to participate).

    Maybe a 'do what you like to do' attitude would go over as a little more tolerant. Just sayin'. None of the people in this thread asking for an extra transwarp button have shown any disrespect for what you enjoy.

    I'm a strong advocate for STO to be appealing to as many different types of players as possible (a diverse community).
  • xorvxorv Member Posts: 75 Arc User
    edited August 30
    I don't think this change would create any appreciable increase in participation, just convenience for those who already participate. Although I could see potentially negative unintended consequences as well given it would allow easy fast reinforcements.

    STO is always going to struggle with PvP participation numbers, and no amount of tinkering with the system will completely eliminate the problem. THE biggest issue is the nature of main game and the sort of players it attracts. Most players come to play STO to immerse themselves in the Trek universe (and this is key) be the Hero in that environment, as is typical to most RPGs, MMOs or otherwise. So your typical STO player is warping around the galaxy on normal difficulty laying waste to any NPCs that get in their way and feeling like they're the baddest Ship Captain that ever lived. Then they get their first dose of PvP, and their fantasy is completely shattered as they go from 'baddest' to just plain bad, from Hero to Zero, where other players defeat them like they were the NPCs. It's why you see such vitriol against PvP from some posters, that experience of having their fantasy shattered really leaves a mark and a long lasting grudge for some. And of course there's all the excuses why they're so terrible at PvP. They make posts that show they have zero idea of how things work, and to be fair it takes effort to understand the complex mechanics and ever changing meta, and I've certainly got things wrong as well, but not to that level of ignorance. The reality is there's always going to be someone better than you, and if your willfully ignoring how things actually work there's going to be ALOT of people better than you. So, it wouldn't matter if everyone had exactly the same ship and build in PvP, the Hero fantasy would still be shattered and people would be upset about PvP, worse they wouldn't have any excuses to placate their rage at their lack of success.
  • keepcalmchiveonkeepcalmchiveon Member Posts: 3,321 Arc User
    xorv wrote: »
    I don't think this change would create any appreciable increase in participation, just convenience for those who already participate. Although I could see potentially negative unintended consequences as well given it would allow easy fast reinforcements.

    you cant reinforce mid match...its 5v5 till the end. if one drops, thats it. 5v4.

    and as stated, i dont mind having a xport to a parking lot prior to entry.
    meh

  • xorvxorv Member Posts: 75 Arc User
    xorv wrote: »
    I don't think this change would create any appreciable increase in participation, just convenience for those who already participate. Although I could see potentially negative unintended consequences as well given it would allow easy fast reinforcements.

    you cant reinforce mid match...its 5v5 till the end. if one drops, thats it. 5v4.

    and as stated, i dont mind having a xport to a parking lot prior to entry.

    OPer is talking about Warzones, not the Arena which you could already join from anywhere.
  • hightower#2475 hightower Member Posts: 39 Arc User
    protoneous wrote: »
    jonsills wrote: »
    EvE Online is right over that way. -->

    How nice of you to be telling certain folks to go find another game when all that's being asked for is a transwarp button.

    We've had fully segregated game play since the earliest of times so it's difficult to understand the vitriol that comes from having a few war zones that are completely optional (no need for YOU to participate).

    Maybe a 'do what you like to do' attitude would go over as a little more tolerant. Just sayin'. None of the people in this thread asking for an extra transwarp button have shown any disrespect for what you enjoy.

    I'm a strong advocate for STO to be appealing to as many different types of players as possible (a diverse community).

    Totally agree, but there’s no use trying to reason with people who have an ‘agree with me or go somewhere else’ attitude, they’re almost always high on their own sense of self importance that they won’t listen anyway. I mean how dare a peasant like me throw an idea out there for discussion, I should be banished from STO immediately haha.
  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 9,554 Arc User
    Hey, I'm just saying that what you want isn't really a Trek-style experience, and if that's what you're after, there are already services that provide it in an apparently satisfactory manner. There's no need for you to sit here and stew in a game you're not really enjoying, just because its lore and experience don't cater to your preferred playstyle. TRIBBLE, that's why I don't play EvE, despite the fact that I find the lore intriguing and the ship designs interesting - the playstyle just doesn't suit my preference.

    And the quickest way to kill a game is to try to change it from what it is, which is at least mildly successful, to something else in a misguided attempt to change the nature of the audience. You can put up a candy-coated transwarp gate that tickles your toes as you enter it, and I for one am still not going into your warzone arena.
    Lorna-Wing-sig.png
  • hightower#2475 hightower Member Posts: 39 Arc User
    jonsills wrote: »
    Hey, I'm just saying that what you want isn't really a Trek-style experience, and if that's what you're after, there are already services that provide it in an apparently satisfactory manner. There's no need for you to sit here and stew in a game you're not really enjoying, just because its lore and experience don't cater to your preferred playstyle. TRIBBLE, that's why I don't play EvE, despite the fact that I find the lore intriguing and the ship designs interesting - the playstyle just doesn't suit my preference.

    And the quickest way to kill a game is to try to change it from what it is, which is at least mildly successful, to something else in a misguided attempt to change the nature of the audience. You can put up a candy-coated transwarp gate that tickles your toes as you enter it, and I for one am still not going into your warzone arena.

    At no stage did I say I wasn’t enjoying it and all I suggested was a transwarp button, that’s not exactly changing the game style. Sometimes it’s just fun to go into the Warzone every now and then for some people, but like I said allot of people don’t know it exists. It’s just a suggestion, call it misguided if you want, but it’s not a hill I’m willing to die on, it’s just a game not real life ….. proportionality.
  • westmetalswestmetals Member Posts: 7,240 Arc User
    See that's just the thing. A lot of players who aren't going there, do know it exists, they just have absolutely no appetite for PVP.
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