Here's some things Cryptic could do to help the dil-ex
Add in a new fleet holding on the scale of the colony to make another long term sink.
Can we skip this one please? It's already hard enough to build up a fleet nowadays. I don't wanna think about having another colony scale holding adding up to it.
Why would Cryptic want to infuse the dilex, the only way to get zen now is to buy it or purchase the LTS to get the 500 a month. Also didn't they recently move some of the TWOK outfits from the dil. store to the lobi store? They killed the dilex by putting out all these c-store and Mudd bundles at one time. Not to sound cynical it kind of sounds planned.
1: long term players don't need dilithium anymore (except to trade for zen)
2: Cryptic has seemingly massively increased their release schedule of ships (which drive demand for zen)
Both of those things combined have killed the exchange for now. To solve issue 1 they would have to create new fleet holdings on a fairly regular basis. To solve issue 2 they would have to reduce their release schedule, but that's probably unlikely for business reasons.
Until it actually hurts them financially (and enough to matter) they probably won't feel the need to try to change anything. Time will tell.
Also didn't they recently move some of the TWOK outfits from the dil. store to the lobi store?
That wasn't exactly recent, but my suspicion is that they did that due to low or nonexistent sales while they were in the dil store (the dil cost was laughably overpriced, though as a big Enterprise fan I happily paid it for the MACO uniform).
That wasn't exactly recent, but my suspicion is that they did that due to low or nonexistent sales while they were in the dil store (the dil cost was laughably overpriced, though as a big Enterprise fan I happily paid it for the MACO uniform). [/quote]
Same here I was happy to pay the Dil. to get some of them. I am very bad about noticing things I just remember looking for it one day an it was gone. Do you all think this may run off a lot of the F2P players out there, even though that is not the base that Cryptic is most concerned with.
Well, the Dil. Exchange going from "normal" to "maxed out" and "dried up" within a day is peculiar... i mean, i think there were similar sales like this one before, but even when the exchange rate was at it's cap., there was still some ZEN floating around to be exchanged.
So, what's different this time?
My guess... less money floating around because of the pandemic. Only variable I can think of besides the Mudd Pack being a bit more desirable than previous ones. I sure as hell was tempted before the Genesis Pack was announced.
There is no new variable, it's been going this way for a very long time.. it just took a while to burn through the stock of available Zen. It was a near critical mass and then what did they do? Boom.. Bonus Dilithium Weekend coupled with a 20% Ship Sale.
To stand back and objectively look at how Cryptic has responded and not believe that this is exactly what they want is baffling. The only question is, when tomorrow comes around, will Cryptic decide to infuse the exchange with Zen? Will they do anything at all?
My money is on no action. No reason for them to do anything at all.
The whales ran out of uses for dilithium. No uses for dilithium, no reason to buy it. No reason to buy it, no reason to sell zen, so no zen on the dilex. Superficially, this isn't a problem. Whales are still buying zen for other reasons. What's missing is what happens when 1/2 the game population runs out of steam from a lack of a working dilex and then quits. That's a death spiral. Without a strong population to keep things moving, the whales *move on* and without them, a F2P game like STO has its entire monetization model implode.
I am not defending Cryptic's position on the issue, I am simply stating what it is.
They're wrong.. flat out wrong. They don't care and they should, this type of thing pushes F2P players away from the game. Whales are great and all, but Whales need something in order to stick around.. they need people to lord their shiny objects over. Without the bulk of the player base, Whales get bored and take their money elsewhere.
When they start leaving, the game starts declining. The Dilex is important.. the question is when Cryptic is actually going to realize that. Right now they're infatuated with this 'sell sell sell' model just pushing things down people's throat and it's been successful so far. The problem is that they are sacrificing the long team health of the game in exchange for 'cash now.'
The Dilex problem is just the first symptom of a much larger problem. Should they try to fix the Dilex? Yes.
Saves me a fair bit of time, as I was going to make a Jem recruit to help increase the amount of Dil I can refine out, but with who knows how much wait to be able to exchange it to Zen (Neverwinter players have had to wait for months at a time from what I've heard with their capped Astral Diamond -> Zen Exchange,) I won't bother. Also saves me time on the Risian Event, as I would only really want the ship for the Admiralty card, but that's unneeded if I'm not grinding Dil.
I'll just be popping on for new missions it seems.
Except they do care, and their actions in the last year+ have shown it.
By increasing the ship release schedule (which drives zen demand) they have invalidated any measures that were previously taken to control the dilex. They will never bring the situation under any type of control as long as they are releasing one big bundle after another which will create constant demand for zen. No measures such as those you cited will ever be able to curb the amount of constant zen demand they have created.
The problem is that this can't really stem the relative handful of players with multiple accounts, and like 20+ characters per account, who mass farm dil, devaluing it as a currency, and driving up prices.
No, the (relatively) small number of big farmers aren't the ones that killed the exchange.
First, the farmers have always been around (since F2P launch). They aren't some new element that has suddenly cause this issue.
Second, even on PS4 where it is more difficult to do the multiple account thing, their dilex is also having the same problems (not as bad as PC yet but well on the way).
No, some group of farmer illuminati aren't the issue. As mentioned in my previous post, it is the now constant demand for zen driven by constant ship releases that has created an uncontrollable situation.
how many characters the playerbase has on average, which typically tends to be 3-4.
I feel weird now, I hit 14 level 65s during the last XP weekend, I have 5 more that need to be leveled, and I'm working on a concept for at least one more. I don't grind dil though so I'm not flooding the market, when I need Dil for something I buy it with Zen.
They will never bring the situation under any type of control as long as they are releasing one big bundle after another which will create constant demand for zen. No measures such as those you cited will ever be able to curb the amount of constant zen demand they have created.
All they need to add is a highly desirable dil sink that is endlessly repeatable, something like what I suggested on page 2:
"Something [...] that might have some lasting impact [...] would be a buyout option for ship mastery. Though it's mostly a trivial inconvenience at this point to grind out mastery in a few patrols, I think enough people would do it for alts that it would have a decent impact on the dil economy if it had a dil price tag instead of zen. Maybe they could even convert the reputation buyout system to dil as well, or simply add a Tier 6 buyout option that uses dil and leave the Tier 5 buyout the way it is."
I obviously can't speak for everyone, but these are things I would buy dilithium for, and a ship mastery buyout in particular would add a degree of dilithium demand every time a new ship is added.
In 2020 there was less then half of the number of new ships...
Yeah, there is where you completely misunderstand what I'm talking about. I'm not just talking about "new" ships. I'm also talking about huge mega bundles like the recent Mudd's Kelvin bundle. They were not "new" ships, but account wide unlocks of older ships people really wanted. Because they are releasing one massive bundle after another (which is fine, I mean I know they want to make money) it's creating a huge zen demand. As long as that continues, there are no measure they can take that will control the dilex.
What would be the impact if the 500 to 1 cap were removed and the exchange rate could climb to the level driven by supply and demand?
I am not a F2P player, but neither am I a whale. The dilithium exchange is something I pay little attention to, but I am curious given all the attention this current state is gathering in this forum and Reddit. From doom and gloom to it does not matter.
As is, we are looking at another RECORD LOW for new ship...
Again, I never said "new" ships. The ships the mudd's bundle are not "new", but they are still creating a ton of zen demand. Focusing only on "new" ships misses the actual point.
What would be the impact if the 500 to 1 cap were removed and the exchange rate could climb to the level driven by supply and demand?
Well, the problem with that idea is without some new fleet holding that creates a demand for dil, the numbers would just keep getting more lopsided. If they removed the cap without also creating something that requires dil, you would eventually just get to 1,000 to 1, and so on.
Again, I never said "new" ships. The ships the mudd's bundle are not "new", but they are still creating a ton of zen demand. Focusing only on "new" ships misses the actual point.
Theres been all of two bundles, for a total of 10 ships, on Mudd's this year. That would still make this year one of the lowest in STO history.
So, again, the idea they are "increasing" anything is just demonstrably wrong.
Maybe so. One thing they've definitely been doing, though? Almost constant sales, for over a year now. There's almost constantly something on sale. Sales demonstrably spiked the exchange in the past; now, with barely a few days between them--a week or so, tops--it's not so much spiking as doing a zoom climb.
Or at least it was, before it hit the cap and bounced so hard the exchange literally emptied.
So forget about "new" bundles of any kind. It's a demonstrable fact that it's Cryptic's actions that are causing this, if only through the unending sales.
The problem is that this can't really stem the relative handful of players with multiple accounts, and like 20+ characters per account, who mass farm dil, devaluing it as a currency, and driving up prices.
you have literally no idea what you are talking about. Neverwinter has no compareable 'grind farm' mechanics like STO - no comparable contraband or admiralty missions - yet it's astral diamond exchange is in even worse shape than STO - it literally takes months for a trade to go through. the cause is simple and clear: cryptic keeps releasing new store items -which require zen- but has stopped releasing regular uses for dil. the farming has nothing to do with it as neverwinters example proves becuase they have no easy farm systems like in STO- you actually have to play the game to earn any decent amount of AD. again you have literally no idea what you are even talking about.
Again, I never said "new" ships. The ships the mudd's bundle are not "new", but they are still creating a ton of zen demand. Focusing only on "new" ships misses the actual point.
Theres been all of two bundles, for a total of 10 ships, on Mudd's this year. That would still make this year one of the lowest in STO history.
So, again, the idea they are "increasing" anything is just demonstrably wrong.
Maybe so. One thing they've definitely been doing, though? Almost constant sales, for over a year now. There's almost constantly something on sale. Sales demonstrably spiked the exchange in the past; now, with barely a few days between them--a week or so, tops--it's not so much spiking as doing a zoom climb.
Or at least it was, before it hit the cap and bounced so hard the exchange literally emptied.
So forget about "new" bundles of any kind. It's a demonstrable fact that it's Cryptic's actions that are causing this, if only through the unending sales.
I don't think the sales an really be put on the devs themselves though. I've repeatedly said that I think it's a higher up than the devs or even Andre Emerson whom is dictating the necessary sales. I think it's PWE pushing for the maximum amount of revenue they can squeeze out of the game they're publishing.
No idea of any other games sto is the only one I play. I’d say it’s the lack of stuff to buy with dilithium. We used to to have rep item that would come out regularly and fleet upgrades and most of that has dried up. So theirs just less to buy with it. What is funny about it I used to be one of those guys that had like 12+ characters and would get 50k dilithium per character on events. Because I would do the mission on every one of them. So used to have a lot of dilithium to spend, now I have less but I also don’t have anything to really spend it on.
I won’t claim to know how to fix the dilithium exchange that is most likely far more complicated than it looks. I do get the feeling it is the just the lack of content in the game though. The game just feels like it’s only being worked on half the time it used to or with half the staff.
you have literally no idea what you are talking about. Neverwinter has no compareable 'grind farm' mechanics like STO
Anyone who says there aren't ways to farm Astral Diamonds in Neverwinter doesn't know what they are talking about. Even a quick Google Search brings up several guides on how to do so.
No, there may not be a contraband or admiralty equivalent, but those aren't necessary to farm this kind of currency. Every MMO has "elite" currency farms. Every. Single. One. And in all of them its always a small handful of top players using excessive account spam, botting, and other "get rich quick" tricks that cause the most severe of market issues.
Its a common issue in any MMO.
dont try that strawman mess with me. i didnt say there is no way to grind in neverwinter, i said "Neverwinter has no COMPARABLE 'grind farm' mechanics like STO". and that is 1000% true. STO has super easy grind farms with contraband and admiralty. neverwinter has nothing like that and requires you to actually PLAY THE GAME to earn AD. its true some ways are quicker than others but there is nothing COMPARABLE TO STO. and yet, depsite not having anything as easy as STO, it's exchange problems are EVEN WORSE. so no, you cant blame STOs exchange woes on the farmers. it is suffering from teh same problem as neverwinter which is that the devs stopped adding sinks that people care about. again you are showing that you have literally NO IDEA what you are even talking about.
you have literally no idea what you are talking about. Neverwinter has no compareable 'grind farm' mechanics like STO
Anyone who says there aren't ways to farm Astral Diamonds in Neverwinter doesn't know what they are talking about.
dont try that strawman mess with me. i didnt say there is no way to grind in neverwinter, i said "Neverwinter has no COMPARABLE 'grind farm' mechanics like STO". and that is 1000% true. STO has super easy grind farms with contraband and admiralty. neverwinter has nothing like that and requires you to actually PLAY THE GAME to earn AD. its true some ways are quicker than others but there is nothing COMPARABLE TO STO. and yet, depsite not having anything as easy as STO, it's exchange problems are EVEN WORSE. so no, you cant blame STOs exchange woes on the farmers. it is suffering from teh same problem as neverwinter which is that the devs stopped adding sinks that people care about. again you are showing that you have literally NO IDEA what you are even talking about.
Again, I never said "new" ships. The ships the mudd's bundle are not "new", but they are still creating a ton of zen demand. Focusing only on "new" ships misses the actual point.
Theres been all of two bundles, for a total of 10 ships, on Mudd's this year. That would still make this year one of the lowest in STO history.
So, again, the idea they are "increasing" anything is just demonstrably wrong.
Maybe so. One thing they've definitely been doing, though? Almost constant sales, for over a year now. There's almost constantly something on sale. Sales demonstrably spiked the exchange in the past; now, with barely a few days between them--a week or so, tops--it's not so much spiking as doing a zoom climb.
Or at least it was, before it hit the cap and bounced so hard the exchange literally emptied.
So forget about "new" bundles of any kind. It's a demonstrable fact that it's Cryptic's actions that are causing this, if only through the unending sales.
I don't think the sales an really be put on the devs themselves though. I've repeatedly said that I think it's a higher up than the devs or even Andre Emerson whom is dictating the necessary sales. I think it's PWE pushing for the maximum amount of revenue they can squeeze out of the game they're publishing.
Emerson's the current executive producer, I think? To be sure, just about every current practice of Cryptic's that's been bugging me started right about when he came in. I'd buy that he's had a major hand in this nonsense.
as far as STOs devs and EP goes remember nevewinter has these same problems (but worse). it's an isue with PWE and not the STO devs. PWE is pushing sale sale sale sale and as long as they do that the demand for zen is going to be way higher than the demand for dilithium. nothing is going to change that as long as PWE is pushing the sales.
I think the fact that the dilithium exchange is maxed out at 500 is a non issue. If there's no dilithium to exchange into zen that could be a negative for STO. It's a shame Cryptic didn't activate a charge zen bonus to coincide with all this activity of sales because I won't buy without, but that's just me personally. Perhaps this will finally drive me to be one of those only play when there's events players instead of about every other day.
Comments
Can we skip this one please? It's already hard enough to build up a fleet nowadays. I don't wanna think about having another colony scale holding adding up to it.
1: long term players don't need dilithium anymore (except to trade for zen)
2: Cryptic has seemingly massively increased their release schedule of ships (which drive demand for zen)
Both of those things combined have killed the exchange for now. To solve issue 1 they would have to create new fleet holdings on a fairly regular basis. To solve issue 2 they would have to reduce their release schedule, but that's probably unlikely for business reasons.
Until it actually hurts them financially (and enough to matter) they probably won't feel the need to try to change anything. Time will tell.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
That wasn't exactly recent, but my suspicion is that they did that due to low or nonexistent sales while they were in the dil store (the dil cost was laughably overpriced, though as a big Enterprise fan I happily paid it for the MACO uniform).
That wasn't exactly recent, but my suspicion is that they did that due to low or nonexistent sales while they were in the dil store (the dil cost was laughably overpriced, though as a big Enterprise fan I happily paid it for the MACO uniform). [/quote]
Same here I was happy to pay the Dil. to get some of them. I am very bad about noticing things I just remember looking for it one day an it was gone. Do you all think this may run off a lot of the F2P players out there, even though that is not the base that Cryptic is most concerned with.
I am not defending Cryptic's position on the issue, I am simply stating what it is.
They're wrong.. flat out wrong. They don't care and they should, this type of thing pushes F2P players away from the game. Whales are great and all, but Whales need something in order to stick around.. they need people to lord their shiny objects over. Without the bulk of the player base, Whales get bored and take their money elsewhere.
When they start leaving, the game starts declining. The Dilex is important.. the question is when Cryptic is actually going to realize that. Right now they're infatuated with this 'sell sell sell' model just pushing things down people's throat and it's been successful so far. The problem is that they are sacrificing the long team health of the game in exchange for 'cash now.'
The Dilex problem is just the first symptom of a much larger problem. Should they try to fix the Dilex? Yes.
Will they?
Probably not.
I'll just be popping on for new missions it seems.
By increasing the ship release schedule (which drives zen demand) they have invalidated any measures that were previously taken to control the dilex. They will never bring the situation under any type of control as long as they are releasing one big bundle after another which will create constant demand for zen. No measures such as those you cited will ever be able to curb the amount of constant zen demand they have created.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
No, the (relatively) small number of big farmers aren't the ones that killed the exchange.
First, the farmers have always been around (since F2P launch). They aren't some new element that has suddenly cause this issue.
Second, even on PS4 where it is more difficult to do the multiple account thing, their dilex is also having the same problems (not as bad as PC yet but well on the way).
No, some group of farmer illuminati aren't the issue. As mentioned in my previous post, it is the now constant demand for zen driven by constant ship releases that has created an uncontrollable situation.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
"Something [...] that might have some lasting impact [...] would be a buyout option for ship mastery. Though it's mostly a trivial inconvenience at this point to grind out mastery in a few patrols, I think enough people would do it for alts that it would have a decent impact on the dil economy if it had a dil price tag instead of zen. Maybe they could even convert the reputation buyout system to dil as well, or simply add a Tier 6 buyout option that uses dil and leave the Tier 5 buyout the way it is."
I obviously can't speak for everyone, but these are things I would buy dilithium for, and a ship mastery buyout in particular would add a degree of dilithium demand every time a new ship is added.
Yeah, there is where you completely misunderstand what I'm talking about. I'm not just talking about "new" ships. I'm also talking about huge mega bundles like the recent Mudd's Kelvin bundle. They were not "new" ships, but account wide unlocks of older ships people really wanted. Because they are releasing one massive bundle after another (which is fine, I mean I know they want to make money) it's creating a huge zen demand. As long as that continues, there are no measure they can take that will control the dilex.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
I am not a F2P player, but neither am I a whale. The dilithium exchange is something I pay little attention to, but I am curious given all the attention this current state is gathering in this forum and Reddit. From doom and gloom to it does not matter.
Again, I never said "new" ships. The ships the mudd's bundle are not "new", but they are still creating a ton of zen demand. Focusing only on "new" ships misses the actual point.
Well, the problem with that idea is without some new fleet holding that creates a demand for dil, the numbers would just keep getting more lopsided. If they removed the cap without also creating something that requires dil, you would eventually just get to 1,000 to 1, and so on.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Maybe so. One thing they've definitely been doing, though? Almost constant sales, for over a year now. There's almost constantly something on sale. Sales demonstrably spiked the exchange in the past; now, with barely a few days between them--a week or so, tops--it's not so much spiking as doing a zoom climb.
Or at least it was, before it hit the cap and bounced so hard the exchange literally emptied.
So forget about "new" bundles of any kind. It's a demonstrable fact that it's Cryptic's actions that are causing this, if only through the unending sales.
you have literally no idea what you are talking about. Neverwinter has no compareable 'grind farm' mechanics like STO - no comparable contraband or admiralty missions - yet it's astral diamond exchange is in even worse shape than STO - it literally takes months for a trade to go through. the cause is simple and clear: cryptic keeps releasing new store items -which require zen- but has stopped releasing regular uses for dil. the farming has nothing to do with it as neverwinters example proves becuase they have no easy farm systems like in STO- you actually have to play the game to earn any decent amount of AD. again you have literally no idea what you are even talking about.
I don't think the sales an really be put on the devs themselves though. I've repeatedly said that I think it's a higher up than the devs or even Andre Emerson whom is dictating the necessary sales. I think it's PWE pushing for the maximum amount of revenue they can squeeze out of the game they're publishing.
I won’t claim to know how to fix the dilithium exchange that is most likely far more complicated than it looks. I do get the feeling it is the just the lack of content in the game though. The game just feels like it’s only being worked on half the time it used to or with half the staff.
dont try that strawman mess with me. i didnt say there is no way to grind in neverwinter, i said "Neverwinter has no COMPARABLE 'grind farm' mechanics like STO". and that is 1000% true. STO has super easy grind farms with contraband and admiralty. neverwinter has nothing like that and requires you to actually PLAY THE GAME to earn AD. its true some ways are quicker than others but there is nothing COMPARABLE TO STO. and yet, depsite not having anything as easy as STO, it's exchange problems are EVEN WORSE. so no, you cant blame STOs exchange woes on the farmers. it is suffering from teh same problem as neverwinter which is that the devs stopped adding sinks that people care about. again you are showing that you have literally NO IDEA what you are even talking about.
dont try that strawman mess with me. i didnt say there is no way to grind in neverwinter, i said "Neverwinter has no COMPARABLE 'grind farm' mechanics like STO". and that is 1000% true. STO has super easy grind farms with contraband and admiralty. neverwinter has nothing like that and requires you to actually PLAY THE GAME to earn AD. its true some ways are quicker than others but there is nothing COMPARABLE TO STO. and yet, depsite not having anything as easy as STO, it's exchange problems are EVEN WORSE. so no, you cant blame STOs exchange woes on the farmers. it is suffering from teh same problem as neverwinter which is that the devs stopped adding sinks that people care about. again you are showing that you have literally NO IDEA what you are even talking about.
Emerson's the current executive producer, I think? To be sure, just about every current practice of Cryptic's that's been bugging me started right about when he came in. I'd buy that he's had a major hand in this nonsense.