@coldnapalm
i doubt anyone would leave sto, just because he got blocked 1 time on esd.. that player likely had other issuses with the game already..
mature playerbase in gta?? you probably have never played it..
and again.. the current system is CONSTANT abused, and a vote/kick system CAN be abused, that is noway the same!
the downside, of the current system is, that people like me, constatly loose marks, which we would have earned, if everyone would do his job. beside that, it is just frustrating to fail on easy things, even if you do all you can to accomplish things.
and NO, i wil not create private ques, just to play a game on a normal way. optional targets is a normal thing in games.. people usually go for it.. it is there to make things a bit more interresting.. giving it an aditional dimension.. not somehting they never do!
@coldnapalm
i doubt anyone would leave sto, just because he got blocked 1 time on esd.. that player likely had other issuses with the game already..
mature playerbase in gta?? you probably have never played it..
and again.. the current system is CONSTANT abused, and a vote/kick system CAN be abused, that is noway the same!
the downside, of the current system is, that people like me, constatly loose marks, which we would have earned, if everyone would do his job. beside that, it is just frustrating to fail on easy things, even if you do all you can to accomplish things.
and NO, i wil not create private ques, just to play a game on a normal way. optional targets is a normal thing in games.. people usually go for it.. it is there to make things a bit more interresting.. giving it an aditional dimension.. not somehting they never do!
Every time I start to think maybe a vote/kick system wouldn't be bad.. I read a post from someone like you that illustrates exactly why it would be a terrible idea. Thank you for the reminder of why this is such a bad idea, players like you would abuse the system because others aren't playing the exact way YOU want them to play.
You are the exact reason we don't have a vote/kick system.. and that's a good thing.
I have to agree. It is becoming more clear that AFK players are not the issue - it is people getting upset that others are not playing the way they want them to, so they are looking for a blunt instrument to force them into a particular way of playing. These posts prove that a vote kick is for "play like I want you to, or else."
Maybe for that user youre discussing this with, for others like myself who deal with it unluckily more than others it is most definitely the case. Marks/optionals et al arent nor will be a problem, they dont take advantage or abuse other players like those who AFK do.
All your post does is make it seem as though youre eager to discredit or gazump the afk issue & makes your earlier posts appear insincere. You dont really believe people about AFKrs because you havent seen them & thus think its ultimately just an excuse or ulterior motive to push for a kick system.
As far as the actual debate surrounding the kick system is concerned it would be better off without the extremes of yourself AND the other player as youre both only looking for something to validate your own viewpoint.
The issue is real & a preference for a kick system isnt insidious by default.
Every time I start to think maybe a vote/kick system wouldn't be bad.. I read a post from someone like you that illustrates exactly why it would be a terrible idea. Thank you for the reminder of why this is such a bad idea, players like you would abuse the system because others aren't playing the exact way YOU want them to play.
You are the exact reason we don't have a vote/kick system.. and that's a good thing.
I have to agree. It is becoming more clear that AFK players are not the issue - it is people getting upset that others are not playing the way they want them to, so they are looking for a blunt instrument to force them into a particular way of playing. These posts prove that a vote kick is for "play like I want you to, or else."
While I can't disagree about the blunt instrument part one thing that's missing here (and may be part of what some people have been trying to say) is that some players can be "pseudo-afk-absolute-minimum-effort" at times. Granted, it's not know if they're newer players or otherwise playing at their very best but when you see some stuff like this it really does make me wonder what's going on here -
*) in the breach, they go for the boss etc, without rescuing any ships or closing hangar doors
*) in the vault, they just park somewhere, while the weavers spinning the net
*) in undine assault, they go for the boss of course without closing errants
*) in borg disconencted, they dont rescue the ships anymore
*) in transdimensional tactics, they attack the boss, before others even activated their suit, get stuck then at the start point
*) in storming the spire, people not spreading out and defending the landing plattforms
*) in bug hunt, nonone is defending the npc (at the end) anymore
*) in kitomer vortex, they dont stop probes from entering the portal
*) in gateway to grethor, you have 4 people on 1 side, and only 1 on the other side (and somehow still not closing green portals)
*) in counterpoint, they dont close the portals at the beginning, and not delivering enter-troops
*) in days of doom, 3 people instant leave
*) in gravity kills, only 2 guys collect particles
*) dranuur gauntlet, they dont repair smoking broken satellites
*) dranuur beach assault, NOONE is defending any generators
*) azure nebula, people destroying ships, but "dont have time" to stop the tracor beams
*) mycelian realm, if you get to close to some people, they dont feel like placing crystals anymore
AND OF COURSE THERE IS SOMEONE AFK IN AT LEAST EVERY 2nd TFO!
what is going on here???
... people who are actively contributing ...
There's a big difference between trying to actively contribute or basically doing f-all while just sneaking past the afk threshold.
There's also a big difference (in advanced TFO's) in trying to achieve "the optional" and failing or basically doing f-all.
I try to not let things like this bother me too much but I'd like to let the person who posted this list know that when I'm playing TFO's I'm looking to support players like you who are at least trying to actively contribute.
No, I'm not always able to form my own team. Please stop speaking in strange hypothetical terms in which you're always correct "in theory".
There is nothing hypothetical about it. You have access to the same in-game tools as everyone else and you are more than capable of chatting with others, socializing and inviting other players to a team.
"All players have the same tools therefore finding a team is easy". Did I get it right this time?
And what is theoretical or hypothetical about that? Yes, taking the time to socialize and find team like minded team members requires some effort.
It doesn't really matter what term I use, stating "all players have the same tools" is nothing more than stating the obvious. It's perfectly irrefutable. "All players breathe oxygen". The point remains that I'm not always able to form my own team. I'm sorry I don't always have enough friends or fleetmates on during the various times I play.
The question is whether or not that effort is worth it to you to avoid getting auto teamed with people who may not play to your liking.
That's a very polite and respectful way to refer to "players who are not contributing". I can't recall stating I have an issue with those players in this thread but I did give them a colorful and carefully considered conditional label just above. What I wouldn't like to see is your friendly label getting extended to anyone that is playing that card on purpose.
@valoreah
ESO and GTA are 2 games, with a kick-system.. and from my experience, there it is no problem at all.
Again, you cannot really compare games like WoW, ESA or GTA to STO. Those other games have much more clearly defined and fleshed out roles and archetypes. Dungeons and raiding in those games are much more scripted affairs that are designed around that and require various roles to complete effectively. STO has none of that. There is no "trinity" here.
the way i imagne the honor system, it would handle the afk-palyer very well, at least on the positive-honor side..
of course the tfo-system should seperate them, if enough players are around..
..and bring them only together, if there is a lack of people qued for a particular tfo.. then the honor-system could be temporary taken offline, but inform the players with a message(or an icon)!
+) people active going for optional targets will get positive honor
-) people not going for optional targets, will get negative honor
-) afk-players, will get (more?) negative honor
-) people not activley contributing, to even mission goals, get negative honor
/) optional targets, that are somehow time related, could be excluded from the honor system
**) a benefit from having VERY HIGH positive honor, could be a granted access to elite random TFOs - how about that?
**) the benefit from negative honor, would be that they could do whatever they want in a TFO, without beeing bothered by people, which are taking TFOs more serious
i can impossible imagine anything that people could have against such a system, except those "poor" leechers lol
You are proving the opposite of what you are trying to do here. What you have explained in this is you are penalizing players who have no need for or interest in completing optional (as in not at all required) tasks. Again, optional tasks are not requirements to complete a TFO successfully and people who do not want to bother with them should never get penalized for that.
If this is how you want to play, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. You can put together your own team and direct everyone how you want to run the content. Anyone not playing to your standard, you can kick them from your team. Problem solved.
GTA has no player roles at all, so that argument that a vote/kick sytsem has anything to do with roles, does not realy work here..
.. and would be the downside for people with negative honor here?? nothing would change for them AT ALL! they could just continue play the game in any way they want.
this system could be alternate solution for a vote/kick system! it simply could bring players with the same mindsets together - nothing more
@coldnapalm
i doubt anyone would leave sto, just because he got blocked 1 time on esd.. that player likely had other issuses with the game already..
mature playerbase in gta?? you probably have never played it..
and again.. the current system is CONSTANT abused, and a vote/kick system CAN be abused, that is noway the same!
the downside, of the current system is, that people like me, constatly loose marks, which we would have earned, if everyone would do his job. beside that, it is just frustrating to fail on easy things, even if you do all you can to accomplish things.
and NO, i wil not create private ques, just to play a game on a normal way. optional targets is a normal thing in games.. people usually go for it.. it is there to make things a bit more interresting.. giving it an aditional dimension.. not somehting they never do!
Every time I start to think maybe a vote/kick system wouldn't be bad.. I read a post from someone like you that illustrates exactly why it would be a terrible idea. Thank you for the reminder of why this is such a bad idea, players like you would abuse the system because others aren't playing the exact way YOU want them to play.
You are the exact reason we don't have a vote/kick system.. and that's a good thing.
show me, where i've said, that i would kick everyone, who is not going for optional targets???
i mainly would use it for AFK-players.. but the pure existance of such an ability would encourage players to behave better.
and it seems you forget that a kick requires a vote of the other players first! if someone does anything that the MAJORITY of a team dont like - WHATEVER IT IS - the rest of the team should have an option to handle that situation
I play on PS4, I don't usually do TFOs but most of the randos I do end up with seem to be pretty useful, my favorite technique is the Colius maneuver (TM) a combination of Nimbus pirate distress call, photonic fleet, warp shadows and a Voth power subcore.
It doesn't really matter what term I use, stating "all players have the same tools" is nothing more than stating the obvious. It's perfectly irrefutable. "All players breathe oxygen". The point remains that I'm not always able to form my own team. I'm sorry I don't always have enough friends or fleetmates on during the various times I play.
There is nothing to be sorry for. However, are you suggesting that if you have no friends or fleetmates on at a given time, you are incapable of using the numerous public chat channels to find others to team up with? Or are you the only player in the entire game? Or is every other player online the same time as you AFK? Are you unable to type into chat channels?
How do you expect to find like minded players to team with if you do not look for them?
I find you suggesting the same thing over and over as some magic cure all close to nonsensical given that I personally don't have any issues with randoms but only mentioned I'm not always able to form my own team.
I almost guessed the next step correctly in that it would be "well your not trying hard enough", but you managed to go several steps further in questioning my ability to use various things from using channels to typing. It seems "what's stopping you" is actually the next step lol. You forgot to suggest that perhaps I'm anti-social as well
You are reversing the onus of responsibility by suggesting that people have the option of forming private teams as way to avoid AFK players or players not actively contributing in a time in which many players rely upon randoms. This is what I take issue with.
I'm unsure if further posting in this thread is even worth the time at this point as -
1) You've already debated these very same points on page 3 of this thread, at length. The fault is mine for not keeping up on my reading.
2) Some comments for this thread are being held (posts are being made but not shown). This is not a comment about moderation as none has visibly occurred. However it can be difficult to make a point or carry a conversation when parties that you've quoted are unable to respond for unknown reasons. It must be a glitch.
Comments
i doubt anyone would leave sto, just because he got blocked 1 time on esd.. that player likely had other issuses with the game already..
mature playerbase in gta?? you probably have never played it..
and again.. the current system is CONSTANT abused, and a vote/kick system CAN be abused, that is noway the same!
the downside, of the current system is, that people like me, constatly loose marks, which we would have earned, if everyone would do his job. beside that, it is just frustrating to fail on easy things, even if you do all you can to accomplish things.
and NO, i wil not create private ques, just to play a game on a normal way. optional targets is a normal thing in games.. people usually go for it.. it is there to make things a bit more interresting.. giving it an aditional dimension.. not somehting they never do!
Every time I start to think maybe a vote/kick system wouldn't be bad.. I read a post from someone like you that illustrates exactly why it would be a terrible idea. Thank you for the reminder of why this is such a bad idea, players like you would abuse the system because others aren't playing the exact way YOU want them to play.
You are the exact reason we don't have a vote/kick system.. and that's a good thing.
Maybe for that user youre discussing this with, for others like myself who deal with it unluckily more than others it is most definitely the case. Marks/optionals et al arent nor will be a problem, they dont take advantage or abuse other players like those who AFK do.
All your post does is make it seem as though youre eager to discredit or gazump the afk issue & makes your earlier posts appear insincere. You dont really believe people about AFKrs because you havent seen them & thus think its ultimately just an excuse or ulterior motive to push for a kick system.
As far as the actual debate surrounding the kick system is concerned it would be better off without the extremes of yourself AND the other player as youre both only looking for something to validate your own viewpoint.
The issue is real & a preference for a kick system isnt insidious by default.
There's a big difference between trying to actively contribute or basically doing f-all while just sneaking past the afk threshold.
There's also a big difference (in advanced TFO's) in trying to achieve "the optional" and failing or basically doing f-all.
I try to not let things like this bother me too much but I'd like to let the person who posted this list know that when I'm playing TFO's I'm looking to support players like you who are at least trying to actively contribute.
GTA has no player roles at all, so that argument that a vote/kick sytsem has anything to do with roles, does not realy work here..
.. and would be the downside for people with negative honor here?? nothing would change for them AT ALL! they could just continue play the game in any way they want.
this system could be alternate solution for a vote/kick system! it simply could bring players with the same mindsets together - nothing more
show me, where i've said, that i would kick everyone, who is not going for optional targets???
i mainly would use it for AFK-players.. but the pure existance of such an ability would encourage players to behave better.
and it seems you forget that a kick requires a vote of the other players first! if someone does anything that the MAJORITY of a team dont like - WHATEVER IT IS - the rest of the team should have an option to handle that situation
I almost guessed the next step correctly in that it would be "well your not trying hard enough", but you managed to go several steps further in questioning my ability to use various things from using channels to typing. It seems "what's stopping you" is actually the next step lol. You forgot to suggest that perhaps I'm anti-social as well
You are reversing the onus of responsibility by suggesting that people have the option of forming private teams as way to avoid AFK players or players not actively contributing in a time in which many players rely upon randoms. This is what I take issue with.
I'm unsure if further posting in this thread is even worth the time at this point as -
1) You've already debated these very same points on page 3 of this thread, at length. The fault is mine for not keeping up on my reading.
2) Some comments for this thread are being held (posts are being made but not shown). This is not a comment about moderation as none has visibly occurred. However it can be difficult to make a point or carry a conversation when parties that you've quoted are unable to respond for unknown reasons. It must be a glitch.